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Yeah okay, I'm not feeling scum Claire anymore and there's no reason to just sit my vote here so I'm just going to drop it and read the new stuff in the thread when I have the energy to to see if there's anything that catches my eye
##Unvote Chelsea

Originally Posted by Chelsea 1597808117 (#433)

So my reasoning at the time was something simple as her being nervous, not explaining any reads, and joining a wagon. In my eyes that didn't seem convincing enough. So I was content to wait on the wagon and wait for more to come up. Sure enough, it did.

I don't buy that this was your initial reasoning especially since ari's only game related post at the time of your vote was "that seems like a really weird thing to be fixated on" wrt the shinori vote thing, I don't see how you can think at that point they aren't explaining reads when they haven't made any reads and joined a wagon when they voted Makaze during RVS stage and hadn't made any posts to suggest they where giving the game any real thought yet.

As for nervous the only post I see that is nervous is their vote explanation post but that is after you went to bed

Originally Posted by Chelsea 1597808117 (#433)

I did not try to get people to join the wagon. I tried to get Amphoro to join. The thing is, I could've cared less if she really did join or not. What I wanted was to pressure her into making a choice or not to join the wagon. I was testing her. It's always easy to get results if people don't know what they're being tested for hm? Of course, you can argue that keeping my cards close to my chest is a wolf move. But I suppose you'll have to judge that for yourself.

Yeah looking back you weren't really committed to actually getting Amy to join you. As for the testing thing I don't really understand, what information where you trying to get from that test? What information did you get from that test? I personally think playing secretive (other than being secretive about your role)is not particularly towny, after all if you solve the game it means nothing if no one else on town trusts you, and they can't really trust you without clear reasoning.

Scumlean, their reasons for voting Makaze boils down to doesn't like Makaze's focus on shinori's voting which was a well tread issue at that point, and a vague don't like the way Makaze is reacting to pressure, both of which feel like excuses to stay on the wagon, it is also interesting that they only really expand their POE after they you and bart put pressure on them, and the start of the post didn't have much purpose past shading you.

I am chasing you right now instead because I think what you've done is harder for me to justify town doing and I would like an explanation

Page 3-4ish onwards

Originally Posted by Chelsea 1597754587 (#344)

Originally Posted by Bartozio 1597738785 (#303)

Wait, am I sheeping Claire now? I'm gonna throw up for a bit, see you guys later!

What a wonderful sight I've awoken to. You've even added your own spin of reasoning how quaint. Yes it's as you said. ariadne claims to have been reading yet had 0 game-related posts by the time of my vote. Perhaps nerves as a wolf? Although that line can only be cast so far. The Makaze vote that reeks of nervous over-explanation scum joining a bad wagon is the answer we're all seeking here. I'm glad you've seen the light Bart. I hope others will join in our quest

Oh this is an interesting statement to make when this is your first post explaining your reasoning, especially interesting when the post is just a re-statement of barts argument. Tell me did you have an argument of your own for your issues with adriadne, if this was your issue why did you wait to make it until after Bart as opposed to alongside your vote? And if this is not your argument, what is your argument and why have we not seen it yet?

Originally Posted by Chelsea 1597791393 (#369)

Originally Posted by Ampharos 1597786881 (#363)

the scummiest thing ria's done has been keep her vote on makaze; i think given the size of the wagon it's a fairly easy way for a low-effort wolf to appear to be contributing without having to take a wider view of the rest of the gamestate

i do think p#247 was a decent reaction in the moment? and i think more broadly speaking that ria's a really easy misdunk to push if town, because she's played less NOC than most and is probably never gonna be truly out of the PoE. given that, i'd prefer to investigate elsewhere if possible

(there's also a nonzero part of me that WANTS her to be town, heh. if she winds up being a wolf then i'll kick myself but i'm personally inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt thus far)

Given you've stated that you're biased in this example I suggest you don't attempt to dismay a wagon from them and let the others do the work hm? I think you're simply choosing to see past the faults.

Regardless of how easy it is to pressure a sheep. Even the meekest of animals bite when they're back into a corner. It also does not play a factor into what they've been given. In fact, using your own logic I see more reason to pressure her than before.

In light of what I just said, that you personally haven't presented any unique reason to be aboard the adriane wagon it seems incredibly suspicious that you are pushing for amphoros to join and even more to throw shade when they don't. Why does it mean that much to you to get people aboard a wagon that you have not personally explained your reason for starting, this doesn't make sense to me so please explain.

and just for a bit of encouragment
##Unvote Bartozio
##Vote Chelsea

Originally Posted by Makaze 1597775276 (#355)

Originally Posted by Athena_57 1597743479 (#305)

##Vote mackc2

I for one am looking forward to 7 pages of bull$%#!

Originally Posted by Athena_57 1597743497 (#306)

vote is kinda serious ftr

Originally Posted by Athena_57 1597744949 (#311)

I like weiner overall, fjp vote is good

Originally Posted by supa2 1597720747 (#148)

I like the confidence from her in some departments but feel when it comes to engaging with people she has a matter-of-fact way of going about it, like she already knows information prior. I mean the way she described her read on dunn was so thought about for what little content we had that initially I just gave it a cursory glance and just thought nothing, but the more she talks with people the more jarring it is she goes into this state of knowing and just lolposting

This is longer than three sentences so read this part: Doesn't look like scumhunting/fluff

I disagree with this read fwiw bc amy just generally comes off this way to me and it's the reason I was terrified of her in idnsfmm

Originally Posted by Athena_57 1597752293 (#341)

Originally Posted by mackc2 1597752025 (#339)

Okay I've looked at Woopons now and wow, they actually just hopped aboard the biggest wagon with a $%#!post, but all there posts so far have been $%#!posts so not sure if thats alignment indicative, I guess I associate it with newscum and town that doesn't want to commit to actually playing the game early

Yeah from what I recall this is NAI for him

I feel like woopons's vote means most likely not s/s with makaze (bc a bussing vote would have more oomph to it) but apart from that it could be anything. Would lean slightly town even

Originally Posted by Athena_57 1597753273 (#342)

##Unvote mackc2

Out for a bit, this is roughly how I'd expect town!mackc to respond. Not super in depth but seems like he's actually thinking

I feel like the mak wagon is a good push, the votes look mostly genuine. I think if it's town!makaze we'll see the spark at some point

I can't really put my finger on it but they seem to be supporting both wagons and making a fake push on mackc2, ending with no target or vote of their own, and gave way too much town credit to a bunch of people just for being on my wagon.

The only thing that gives me pause is the woopons read. It's the closest to an actual town read they've said and it has more depth than the other posts, if that makes sense.

But then jumping back off of mackc after that exchange with the only result being leaning woopons town, I'm not seeing the town logic behind what he's doing.

What do you make of Athena and how they pressured you only to drop it?

NAI, while I agree doing a bunch of half measure pushes with no actual goal in mind is something thats generally scummy (Yes I realise the Irony in me saying that), its also exactly how they played their intro in training mafia, which they were town in, and at least from my perspective the entire purpose of the exchange for him was to prod me into producing enough content for him to get a read on me.

I would like @Athena_57 to explain why they thought I was the best person to push.

Okay I've looked at Woopons now and wow, they actually just hopped aboard the biggest wagon with a $%#!post, but all there posts so far have been $%#!posts so not sure if thats alignment indicative, I guess I associate it with newscum and town that doesn't want to commit to actually playing the game early

Cheers for the number, Okay no problem with Amphros then, there argument does legit look like they noticed there own problem with Makazes posts, by which I mean the argument isn't a reiteration or amalgamation of other players reasoning and posted half an hour after the vote (which seems reasonable to construct a post) so it wasn't made to retroactively justify the vote

Yeah I realised, I just got sidetracked, anyway Amphys hop aboard the Makaze wagon raises some eyebrows, since (unless I missed something) they had not made any posts saying they had an issue with Makaze since game start

Sidenote/Rant: I hate meta arguments cause 1: I don't know anyone's meta, and 2: as far as I'm aware most players last game was a year or two ago (Granted some of you might have kept playing after SF died) so I imagine anyone could play differently

I Iso'd the first 3 votes on them Which I just realised is probably the opposite to the way I should have goneand I'm not sure about Shinori's argument (226), Makazes posts read to me as intentionally confrontational which I don't think being confrontational is something you want to do as scum N1 since you don't particularly want people focusing on you right from the start, but in the same breath I agree with the second part of the argument that Makaze hasn't put any meat into his posts

I mean I've read all the posts up to now, doesn't mean I know what happened

Well you Europeans are here right now so I may as well do something my timezone doesn't usually permit and join an active discussion, and yeah I flake D1 most the time because I hate the D1 banter, I can never tell when the $%#!posting ends and the content begins Which is to say I'm antisocial and hate talking to people

Guys seriously? I go take a nap and there's four more pages, why did I sign up for this again?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Serenes Forest Invitational, my friend Bartozio suffers from a curse of being wagoned late game, I have thought long and hard about ways to save him from this curse and have come up with a foolproof way to save him from this fate, which is to kill him now
##Vote Bartozio
Join me in saving Bart from his curse

That is all