That's like... an incredibly flawed mindset, but whatever. In what world does ignoring people's content just because you think they're scum make sense?
This argument is pointless with you in your current condition. Ugh.
Type: Posts; User: SullyMcGully
That's like... an incredibly flawed mindset, but whatever. In what world does ignoring people's content just because you think they're scum make sense?
This argument is pointless with you in your current condition. Ugh.
Claire, you said yesterday that you had a scumread on me that you could clarify if I wanted. What's that scumread? I'm a potential counterwagon for you right now, so why the heck aren't you making that case right now?
I haven't spoken with Athena in years.
Hello.
I have like no time to make this post, but here goes:
I have disliked Claire since D2.
She still hasn't told me why she was scumreading me yesterday. Feels so much like she's setting me up to look like her partner.
My D2 cases against Claire still stand. I expressed doubt at the beginning of D3 because I wanted to make sure people thought it over instead of blindly lynching her though.
I don't like Bart's move to suddenly start scumreading me after he became a viable wagon. Feels like he's just trying to pocket Makaze. I'm not 100% sold on him being scum though. My townread on him from D2 hasn't been negated entirely. But yeah, he's playing really weak.
It's gonna suck if the one game where I don't tunnel on Bart is the one where he's actually scum.
I'm keeping my vote where it is, but honestly, I trust Amy/Supa/PB more than myself so if they want to swing, I'm okay with FJP or Bart lynches. The only person outside of the universal towncore that I strongly townread is Makaze. Claire is the scummiest of the remaining players, but of course, she's not the only scum.
i have to leave now bye
Yup. Was kinda expecting this sort of reaction TBH.I'm watching Westworld S3 and might have a date tomorrow, but I'll try to keep reading
@Ampharos
@ariadne
@Bartozio
@Chelsea
@fairyjigglypuff
@Fenrir
@Paperblade
@primordial woopons
@Shinori
@SullyMcGully
@supa2
I think everyone needs to post a readslist. People in the PoE needs to have reads on everyone in the PoE. Fenrir and woopons need to read each other for real this time
For my own sanity
Town:
fairyjigglypuff
Paperblade
supa2
I can't put Ampharos here in good conscience
Townlean:
Bartozio
Shinori (pending content)
Probably town but I can't stop thinking about:
Ampharos
Probable scum:
Fenrir
SullyMcGully
primordial woopons
ariadne
Chelsea
Pedit: As I'm writing this I saw this post by Sully that is screaming with tonal pings.
Read the bolded.
I believe he's leaving town, but I can't ignore how bad this feels.
I do think it's Chelsea, but I don't see the point in repeating yesterday unless Chelsea seriously changes her game. Chelsea and ariadne can't both be scum, and they both have equity with all of my scumleans. Not much has changed except my lim priority.
Sully > Fenrir/Woopons > ariadne/Chelsea > Amy > Shinori
I need to look at who else works with Sully because I have a feeling it's either ariadne and Amy or one of Fenrir/woopons, though Chelsea still makes sense if he thinks he can't avoid it
Leaning woopons
I'm willing to sheep the cases on Bartozio if necessary but I'm not feeling it
I'm not happy that my PoE is pretty much the whole game including paranoia for Amy and Bartozio but I'm feeling good about this one
##Vote SullyMcGully
Like I said, not getting misyeeted is a big goal for me this phase. So if I come across like I'm especially conscious of the way I'm being treated in the thread, that's why.
You're entitled to your opinions and whatnot. You're allowed to think I'm scummy. There are some pretty good reasons to think that way. But I don't look worse here than Claire, so I recommend you yeet her - or somebody else if you have a breakthrough or something - and save grilling me for when I'm around to defend myself.
Don't allow yourself to think the mafia won't try to take advantage of my absence from the thread to get me misyeeted. I've got to go now. I might be back before DL, but I might not be back until D4. We'll see what happens. I'm leaving a vote on Claire.
##Vote Chelsea
See y'all later.
Hey guys!
I didn't think D2 would be 48 hours instead of 72, so deadline caught me by surprise. I doubt I would have moved off of YOLO with another 24 hours, but I might have had a bit more urgency about other matters if I'd known how little time we actually had. So sorry about that.
My content is going to be very limited for the remainder of the game, however, as my family is going on vacation. I'll be on the road for most of tomorrow and much more infrequent following that. And I'm about to pack up my computer, so if y'all have questions for me... speak now or hold it in until D4. Honestly my number two priority for this day is not getting misyeeted, so if there's anything I can do to allay your concerns about my slot, just let me know.
Of course, my number one priority is catching scum, but I don't even know where to start. I was pretty convinced that YOLO was scum. It's probably best that we take the dead man's advice and yeet Claire next, as so much of this game would be easier to read with her flip.
But I'm not 100% sold on that. I'd need to take a closer look at how scum potentially behaved on YOLO's wagon. For most of D2, it seemed like everyone was okay with either a Claire or a YOLO yeet. At a certain point, it swung over to YOLO, and maybe the players who swung it (IDR who exactly they were) actually are scum but that seems like too obvious of a move. But if Claire was scum all along, then I feel like we'd have seen a lot more hesitancy to yeet her rather than the attitude of "I don't care which one we yeet" that a lot of players had.
YOLO not being scum still allows for a team with Claire on it to exist, but it also makes the alternatives - a team with Ria or Woopons or one of the more widely townread players - seem more likely. Claire is probably still the most informative yeet in the game, but I still think we need to be careful. Feels like scum has the upper hand right now.
And I'd love to make cases and ISOs and all of that but I'm kinda busy packing right now. So yeah, I'm not going to be very useful this phase.
It's unusual that Athena decides to scumread Bart, considering that Bart knows them so well. I really feel like it could go either way though. Realistically, Athena could have known that people like me valued his meta relationship with Bart in previous games, and tried using meta to bring down Bart.@SullyMcGully What do you make of the progression on the Athena side of things?
I mentioned it in my speed post yesterday
Bart specifically
Yeah idk I don't feel super strongly about either the dunn or the claire wagon. Cases on claire look like they come from a good place but I overall like what she's been doing. I could sheep Marth's vote on Dunn for voteparking but I feel stronger about fjp and kinda like him voting claire. He'd be my second choice but I'm down to do this until I see where he takes his Claire read.
##Vote fairyjigglypuff
It's such a weak case though. I doubt Athena ever thought he could actually get Bart yeeted. So the shade there does feel kinda pointless, unless Athena was distancing himself from a fellow scumbuddy. Or maybe he just played poorly and was putting out weak content because he was lazy? I mean, that's the reason we yeeted him. I just don't see a smoking gun in the Athena ISO WRT his relationship with Bart.
In general, Athena's yeet wasn't rich in associatives. I feel like scum might have been aware of that, and allowed it to go through as an alternative to lynching a player like Makaze or Dunn who would have blown this game wide open after flipping. But I'm pretty sure both of those players are town, so... yeah. That's all I've got.
Wait. I quoted the wrong post. The last post was in response to Amy's spoiler complaint, not what Supa said.
Oops.
How is it a spoiler if it already happened?
I don't know about "quality," but the readability is only nice because I proofread texts for a living.
Though honestly, to me, readability does often determine whether I appreciate a player's content or not. Sometimes I feel like I'm scumreading someone just for having bad grammar. And I guess that's a really bad way to play, so... maybe I need to work on that.
I'm just saying Amy's comfortable with that kind of thing, and that she could pull it off if she wanted to.Just... what? Amy forgetting to do something as scum once is suddenly a reason why she'd hard yeet a buddy as scum? What?It's not that it's particularly scummy, it's just that it... isn't worded very well. You (and this could be said of Ria too) tend to write in large paragraphs that can address multiple different points and lack good sentence order, which means that I have to reread them several times to figure out what they're saying. And so far, in this game, I haven't really had time to read anyone's posts more than once (with the exception of the YOLO ISO I did recently.)
But your voting history sends a pretty clear message without me having to understand the accompanying reads. The Athena push would be really hard for scum to justify.
I'm just worried because of SFMM5. In that game, Zoey and I were town leader. We allowed you into our inner circle and made you aware of our plans for all of town's power roles. When mafia completely screwed up on N1, I figured it cleared you, because you knew who was getting docced/copped/etc and you could have done something about it if you were scum. You were my top townread for the rest of the game. Little did I know that the reason scum didn't get a successful kill N1 was because you were overworked IRL and never actually got the chance to tell your buddies who not to shoot.
So basically, I kinda do have this impression of you as someone who might do something that makes no sense as scum and basically townclears you at the start of the game just to make the rest of the game a walk in the park.
I mean, I did this myself in a recent scumgame. I bussed all three of my buddies in the first three day phases to gain as much towncred as I could. I didn't really have much of a choice, as they were all way too low-effort for me to protect. And yeah, I did get misyeeted on the fourth day phase... but that's because I'm terrible. I'm sure you could pull it off.
Don't let the fact that I made six paragraphs about this make you think you're a top scumread for me, though. There are definitely worse-looking players on the list. I just don't think it's impossible for you to be scum just because you got Athena yeeted.
I kinda want to be "enlightened," but judging from your interactions with Supa, I'd just get a bunch of raw condescension with hardly any logic I can reply to.
Also, if you're scumreading someone, shouldn't you explain your reasoning to town regardless of whether that someone wants you to or not? This is just lazy. If you think me or Weapons are likely scum, you should say why so that information is out in the open. You shouldn't just throw out a vague "I'm sussing you!" and then say "I'll only tell you why if you ask politely though." Like, why should scum care if you're scumreading them? The purpose of a case is not to tell scumreads why they're suspicious, it's to tell town why you think scumreads are scum.
There's no town benefit in doing the above. It doesn't even put any real pressure on the players in question. The only reason I can see you doing it is as scum, hoping nobody questions you about your lack of reads and trying to make players you know are town paranoid for no reason.
Makaze, Makaze, Makaze. I get that you've done the whole fakeclaim thing as scum before. And I get that you're worried. But I also can't really think of two playstyles that have less in common than yours and Weapon's. You're completely different players, so for me "Makaze did this once" doesn't really translate to "Weapons does this also."
I actually thought about this. I wondered whether it townspewed Weapons that scum didn't shoot Dunn last night. If Weapons was scum, then they would know that Dunn was the real doc.
But I decided against it. I mean, even if they hadn't known which one was the real doc, it still would have been optimal to shoot one or the other. The fact that they didn't is bizarre.
Also Weapons cut it really close. He almost actually got Dunn yeeted. That doesn't seem like someone trying to keep Dunn alive. Not unless there are some big brain plays going on here, and I honestly don't get that vibe from Weapons.
And how is it even a missyeet if you're scum.Also odd, when I tried that as scum in HeroAca mafia I couldn't even get my buddies lynched, let alone get town so far to lynch me.
Eh, Woopons can make a big brains play at times. Considering how those tend to walk the fine line between being either genius or incredibly stupid, they're a lot closer to just regular trolling than you might think.
Always happy to help. This also made me realize I can click a post to iso the person instead of just using the filter function... nice.
And it's a misyeet because I SAID IT'S A MISYEET! Screw you Osie and your weirdly intuitive cases!
I consider him null for me. He's playing to his townie meta (according to others), but he hasn't really done anything. That whole counterclaim fiasco doesn't really feel alignment-indicative to me, coming from a player who prides himself on his borderline trolling. I can't really read him very well with his limited amount of serious content. I'll feel better about him once one of his targets flips scum.I'm confused. What is your read of weapons?It's not that it's particularly scummy, it's just that it... isn't worded very well. You (and this could be said of Ria too) tend to write in large paragraphs that can address multiple different points and lack good sentence order, which means that I have to reread them several times to figure out what they're saying. And so far, in this game, I haven't really had time to read anyone's posts more than once (with the exception of the YOLO ISO I did recently.)
But your voting history sends a pretty clear message without me having to understand the accompanying reads. The Athena push would be really hard for scum to justify.
I'm just worried because of SFMM5. In that game, Zoey and I were town leader. We allowed you into our inner circle and made you aware of our plans for all of town's power roles. When mafia completely screwed up on N1, I figured it cleared you, because you knew who was getting docced/copped/etc and you could have done something about it if you were scum. You were my top townread for the rest of the game. Little did I know that the reason scum didn't get a successful kill N1 was because you were overworked IRL and never actually got the chance to tell your buddies who not to shoot.
So basically, I kinda do have this impression of you as someone who might do something that makes no sense as scum and basically townclears you at the start of the game just to make the rest of the game a walk in the park.
I mean, I did this myself in a recent scumgame. I bussed all three of my buddies in the first three day phases to gain as much towncred as I could. I didn't really have much of a choice, as they were all way too low-effort for me to protect. And yeah, I did get misyeeted on the fourth day phase... but that's because I'm terrible. I'm sure you could pull it off.
Don't let the fact that I made six paragraphs about this make you think you're a top scumread for me, though. There are definitely worse-looking players on the list. I just don't think it's impossible for you to be scum just because you got Athena yeeted.
I kinda want to be "enlightened," but judging from your interactions with Supa, I'd just get a bunch of raw condescension with hardly any logic I can reply to.
Also, if you're scumreading someone, shouldn't you explain your reasoning to town regardless of whether that someone wants you to or not? This is just lazy. If you think me or Weapons are likely scum, you should say why so that information is out in the open. You shouldn't just throw out a vague "I'm sussing you!" and then say "I'll only tell you why if you ask politely though." Like, why should scum care if you're scumreading them? The purpose of a case is not to tell scumreads why they're suspicious, it's to tell town why you think scumreads are scum.
There's no town benefit in doing the above. It doesn't even put any real pressure on the players in question. The only reason I can see you doing it is as scum, hoping nobody questions you about your lack of reads and trying to make players you know are town paranoid for no reason.
Makaze, Makaze, Makaze. I get that you've done the whole fakeclaim thing as scum before. And I get that you're worried. But I also can't really think of two playstyles that have less in common than yours and Weapon's. You're completely different players, so for me "Makaze did this once" doesn't really translate to "Weapons does this also."
I actually thought about this. I wondered whether it townspewed Weapons that scum didn't shoot Dunn last night. If Weapons was scum, then they would know that Dunn was the real doc.
But I decided against it. I mean, even if they hadn't known which one was the real doc, it still would have been optimal to shoot one or the other. The fact that they didn't is bizarre.
Also Weapons cut it really close. He almost actually got Dunn yeeted. That doesn't seem like someone trying to keep Dunn alive. Not unless there are some big brain plays going on here, and I honestly don't get that vibe from Weapons.
While I was reading Athena's ISO I found THIS however:
Okay, so Athena doesn't post much, but they chime in to post this. And I don't see the purpose in making a statement like this as scum unless Makaze is town.This is bull$%#! btw
Calling this post vague is an understatement. This post could have applied to anyone, and it was immediately followed up by sheeping Paperblade, who in comparison appeared to actually have some reasons for their argument. Assuming it wasn't just plain ignored, there was a high probability for someone else to better articulate some kind of reasoning which he could say was what he meant, gaining a pocket and getting credit for nothing at the same time.
TL;DR Their case is weak and could have easily been designed to get others to make their case for them instead of trying to lead the charge.
Scum does not see their scumbuddy locked in a deathtunnel with town, drop in and leave a demeaning statement like that, and then just leave. If it was a logical argument, I'd buy it as something scum could have planned out on the side. But just saying "this is bullsh*t" is the kind of pointless condecension I don't see scum piling on their buddy. Especially when that buddy is as beleaguered as Makaze was at the moment. So this post actually rachets Makaze up my list of townreads.
This doesn't say much for me about whether Shinori is scum intent on tearing Makaze down or town intent on tearing Makaze down, because... I can really see both of those worlds. But I seriously doubt Makaze is scum. @Shinori I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
After ISOing Bart, I came up with... nothing much?
Bart went after Ariadne right off the bat. This kinda looks bad now because is Claire is scum (and I still think she probably is) then Ariadne seems like someone that scum has been trying to get rid of for a while. But I went after Ria D1 too, so I'm not one to talk.
TFW when you realize retrospectively that Bart's case on Ria was way better than yours...It's fine I think. No real hot takes, but it's reads. Kind of annoyed we only get reads on multiple people after she got pushed, instead of just when things were happening. Basically, this is kind of the post I see scum making after they realize they're being scumread for not talking about the game. Could also be that she just doesn't have hot takes, but it doesn't relieve my earlier impression at least.
Empty voting is at least a commitment of some kind. Claire was also the first to really vote there, so it wasn't an easy jump on the wagon and think of an explanation later either.
Probably also a factor is that I've seen town do it often enough I don't hard scum read it anymore, whereas half ignoring a scummy thing first and then pushing it as your main scumread I haven't.
I've only really been skimming this thread, so I'm going to reread some of the cases and stuff a bit better.
Scumlean on Athena looks nice.
This jokestery stuff does seem a little too friendly with Athena, but as I also missed RVS, I can understand wanting to make up for it further down the line.I take offense to that.
F, he caught me. I give up guys. Be happy I haven't tried to screen shot the discord thumbs up emote yet...
Also quick shout outs:
BBM joining us now means we either get dead scum or huge illeterate memes, and I'm okay with both. This'll be great.
If Makaze/Yolo/Claire is a team, I kind of want them to stay alive so they keep being stuck with one another longer, not gonna lie.
Okay, so in conclusion, ATHENA DID NOT TOWNSPEW BARTOZIO VERY MUCH AT ALL. I read Athena's ISO too, and didn't find the conclusive evidence I imagined I'd find there. There's also this post... which I thought I had multiquoted, but apparently I didn't... where Bart defends Athena's vote on them, which is probably the worst-looking post Bart has made so far. This actually makes Bart and Athena being on a team together seem somewhat likely. So Bart isn't locktown or anything.
But his content has improved substantially on D2 compared to D1, and I always find that to be a townie thing. Townplay improves throughout the game as more information becomes available, while scumplay gets weaker as scum runs out of places to hide. So I'm still townreading Bart pretty highly.
Thanks for posting recently Bartozio. This'll make you easy to ISO.
It's not that it's particularly scummy, it's just that it... isn't worded very well. You (and this could be said of Ria too) tend to write in large paragraphs that can address multiple different points and lack good sentence order, which means that I have to reread them several times to figure out what they're saying. And so far, in this game, I haven't really had time to read anyone's posts more than once (with the exception of the YOLO ISO I did recently.)
But your voting history sends a pretty clear message without me having to understand the accompanying reads. The Athena push would be really hard for scum to justify.
I'm just worried because of SFMM5. In that game, Zoey and I were town leader. We allowed you into our inner circle and made you aware of our plans for all of town's power roles. When mafia completely screwed up on N1, I figured it cleared you, because you knew who was getting docced/copped/etc and you could have done something about it if you were scum. You were my top townread for the rest of the game. Little did I know that the reason scum didn't get a successful kill N1 was because you were overworked IRL and never actually got the chance to tell your buddies who not to shoot.
So basically, I kinda do have this impression of you as someone who might do something that makes no sense as scum and basically townclears you at the start of the game just to make the rest of the game a walk in the park.
I mean, I did this myself in a recent scumgame. I bussed all three of my buddies in the first three day phases to gain as much towncred as I could. I didn't really have much of a choice, as they were all way too low-effort for me to protect. And yeah, I did get misyeeted on the fourth day phase... but that's because I'm terrible. I'm sure you could pull it off.
Don't let the fact that I made six paragraphs about this make you think you're a top scumread for me, though. There are definitely worse-looking players on the list. I just don't think it's impossible for you to be scum just because you got Athena yeeted.
I kinda want to be "enlightened," but judging from your interactions with Supa, I'd just get a bunch of raw condescension with hardly any logic I can reply to.
Also, if you're scumreading someone, shouldn't you explain your reasoning to town regardless of whether that someone wants you to or not? This is just lazy. If you think me or Weapons are likely scum, you should say why so that information is out in the open. You shouldn't just throw out a vague "I'm sussing you!" and then say "I'll only tell you why if you ask politely though." Like, why should scum care if you're scumreading them? The purpose of a case is not to tell scumreads why they're suspicious, it's to tell town why you think scumreads are scum.
There's no town benefit in doing the above. It doesn't even put any real pressure on the players in question. The only reason I can see you doing it is as scum, hoping nobody questions you about your lack of reads and trying to make players you know are town paranoid for no reason.
Makaze, Makaze, Makaze. I get that you've done the whole fakeclaim thing as scum before. And I get that you're worried. But I also can't really think of two playstyles that have less in common than yours and Weapon's. You're completely different players, so for me "Makaze did this once" doesn't really translate to "Weapons does this also."
I actually thought about this. I wondered whether it townspewed Weapons that scum didn't shoot Dunn last night. If Weapons was scum, then they would know that Dunn was the real doc.
But I decided against it. I mean, even if they hadn't known which one was the real doc, it still would have been optimal to shoot one or the other. The fact that they didn't is bizarre.
Also Weapons cut it really close. He almost actually got Dunn yeeted. That doesn't seem like someone trying to keep Dunn alive. Not unless there are some big brain plays going on here, and I honestly don't get that vibe from Weapons.
So I wound up playing Minecraft with my older brother and didn't get any reading done today. So expect this readslist to change tomorrow.
Super Townie:
Supa - I agree with just about everything this guy says. His push for Claire to produce better content is the towniest thing I've seen all day.
Paperblade - I also agree with just about everything this guy says.
Dunn - His content still ain't great, but I guess he's the doc.
Probably Townie, but I haven't been paying much attention to them so I could be wrong:
Amy - I'm not particularly impressed by her content, but she caught Athena, so she's probably town. I'm not sure if I can ever trust her completely after SFMM5 though.
FJP - Athena spew.
Bartozio - Has really flown under the radar. Probably got townspewed by Athena but I want to take a second look at that tomorrow.
Woopons - Has basically been spontaneous all day. Plays excellently towards their apparent town meta (I don't remember playing with him before so I wouldn't know) but hasn't produced actual results yet.
Null-ish:
Ria - My opinion of her content has improved, but not substantially. She's almost definitely not scum with YOLO/Claire/Fenrir though if that's a thing.
Shinori - I've never been good at reading him. He's so emotional that I have trouble seeing the difference when he's attacking an actual read and when he's just attacking somebody's mindset or methodology.
Makaze - Also embroiled in too much conflict for me to really read properly. I was wrong to think I'd be able to read this two-way tunnel better as time goes on, but maybe if we lynch somebody with actual associative potential tonight we'll get more input on whether there actually is scum in between these two.
Fenrir - I actually liked his one big post he made but that along with his weird EoD votes don't look good in light of Athena's flip. Probably the most likely of my null players to be scum. But I'm not 100% sold on it.
Probably Scum and I've already mentioned bits and pieces about why, might try to make a more cohesive case tomorrow but right now I just really, really want to sleep:
YOLO and Claire.
Quick question for all of the YOLO/Claire/Fenrir people though (and I know, I'm one of them): If the entire scumteam is in those three players, then what exactly is scum thinking? Like this whole deal between YOLO and Claire doesn't make sense, if they both die and Fenrir is the remaining scum, the game is over for them. Why isn't YOLO bussing Fenrir instead of Claire? Claire is 10x more useful as a scumbuddy. If member #4 is a lurker like Fenrir or FJP, then scum should desperately be trying to keep one non-lurker member alive, and bussing that member instead of the lurker would be lunacy.
I will ponder the above question tomorrow. Anyway, goodnight.
So between Supa and Paperblade? They're the only universal townreads I can think of.
I'm having second thoughts. I'm going to read up on a few other players and see if I change my mind.You're starting to doubt Claire/YOLO can be a thing, but you're fine to go either way?I mean, I scumread both of them. I haven't looked into Claire's ISO as intently as I have YOLO's but the whole switching to Ria thing is... bad, but so obviously bad it blows my mind that scum would actually do that. Like, did they seriously think they could start a counterwagon that close to deadline and literally give no thought to how it would look once Athena was inevitably lynched? It seems too obvious... but then again, if Claire and YOLO are really scum together, then a lot of what they've done so far has been too obvious, so that's a reality we can't rule out.@SullyMcGully can you respond to this btw, assuming you're still around?
So basically, you have a point. Since we're apparently dealing with a really bad scumteam (I'm actually having second thoughts about whether Claire/YOLO can actually be a thing because of how horribly they've played if that's the case) I can't rule out what you're saying. I still feel pretty confident in my case (and Supa's better version of my case) on YOLO, though. I'm fine to go either way.
And I get why Fenrir looks bad, but the push on him feels like a lazy attempt to gain points by going with a less widely-accepted case. The guy's posted almost nothing while the other top wagons have tons of content to analyze. Fenrir comes across to me like a townie who spent hardly any time reading the thread, and if he actually is mafia, he's prime real estate for bussing due to his lackluster content and lack of strong associations.
Though I guess by defending him I'm turning myself into an association to be analyzed if he gets yeeted, so... maybe that's the intended purpose of voting him? Okay then, I probably shouldn't be saying this in public but whatever.
I mean, I scumread both of them. I haven't looked into Claire's ISO as intently as I have YOLO's but the whole switching to Ria thing is... bad, but so obviously bad it blows my mind that scum would actually do that. Like, did they seriously think they could start a counterwagon that close to deadline and literally give no thought to how it would look once Athena was inevitably lynched? It seems too obvious... but then again, if Claire and YOLO are really scum together, then a lot of what they've done so far has been too obvious, so that's a reality we can't rule out.@SullyMcGully can you respond to this btw, assuming you're still around?
So basically, you have a point. Since we're apparently dealing with a really bad scumteam (I'm actually having second thoughts about whether Claire/YOLO can actually be a thing because of how horribly they've played if that's the case) I can't rule out what you're saying. I still feel pretty confident in my case (and Supa's better version of my case) on YOLO, though. I'm fine to go either way.
If I was with Claire, I wouldn't be able to contain my joy~
I'm with Supa. There's nothing I could say that he didn't say better, so I'm going to do a quotewall instead.
Says he has lots of reads and that he's going to drop a wall either "now or closer to EOD." He never posted a wall... unless this next post counts?I have a lot of reads and am thinking about dropping a wall and big push tonight but I don't know if I should do it now or closer to EOD.
He first states his townread on Claire and Makaze here, along with his original case on Dunn. "Obvious scum."
He really goes in depth here about why he trusts Claire so much.Chelsea is a gut player, so am I, so I feel I can understand her solving process. I've been in the thread when she came in to give various takes and they've felt pure and in the correct direction at the time.
She was the first to vote Dunn and her continued push on ariadne is protown; her early skepticism towards Amph felt good. She's my strongest town right now, would like for people to look elsewhere.
Makaze's directions have been okay I think, shrug. If he's scum I think he gives enough info to suggest it later but I don't see much offensive in his posts atm.
YOLO picks very few posts to actually reply to. He doesn't answer players like SUpa when they specifically ask for his input, but he butts in to restate his certainty of Dunn's scumminess here. Oh, who is that Amy is talking yeeting in this post? Ah, Athena. Might be grasping at straws here, but it feels weird that YOLO picked this post in specific to reply to. Though the whole thing with taking every opportunity to pile shade on Dunn while delaying posting an actual case on Dunn looks really bad.
Somewhere in here YOLO does, however, actually post his case against Dunn. I thought I had it multi-quoted, but apparently I did not. Anyway, it isn't a terrible case, but it's pretty weak compared to how much faith he puts in it.
And this is after Dunn's doc claim. In fact, all throughout the final hours, YOLO constantly reaffirms his belief that Dunn is scum, the doc claim is a lie, and that Claire is one of his strongest townreads.
So that's my biggest problem with YOLO: Why the heck is he voting his strongest townread now? What happened between EoD and right now that made him go from "Dunn's scum fakeclaiming doc LOL and Claire's towniest town" to "there's scum between Dunn and Claire?" Is his current "gut feeling" really strong enough to overthrow his primary D1 case?
I understand people changing their opinions drastically because of surprising flips or role mechanics. But tossing out almost all of your D1 content because of a "gut instinct" that you get at the point in the game where there's so much actual evidence to go off of makes no sense. What the heck was YOLO even doing D1 if it turns out his confidence in his cases was this paper-thin?
"I have a gut feeling that either my strongest townread or the person I've tunneled all game are scum, so I'm going to vote my strongest townread." YOLO's behavior so far has been that of desperate scum caving to public opinion and potentially bussing a buddy so they can redeem themselves to town.
And I checked for Athena associations. There isn't anything that stands out really. If there's a post that's supposed to look like "scum would never say this about their buddy!" then you'll have to point it out to me. There's nothing too condemning, but nothing really great either. YOLO just said "Athena is scummy" a bunch of times without giving a reason why and then came back to see them getting yeeted and supported it.
##Vote YOLOSWAG
I'm not one to toot my own horn, but there's more content and logic in this post than YOLO has shown in the entire game.
@Chelsea I want to know what your current reads are on YOLO and Makaze. Don't dodge the question, please. There's a reason I'm asking this.
If you're so confident then why aren't you voting Dunn?None of my reads have been wrong so far and until I am proven otherwise I have no reason to change my opinions. If no one cc's Dunn by 1 day remaining then one of my reads would be incorrect sure. However, none of what I said has any reason to point me as the guilty party.
Why do you think Claire's scum?
Don't get me wrong, I think she's scum too. But what did she do yesterday that makes her so different from you?
I've got to go to a concert, and I won't be back by DL. I suppose one of the most informational yeets we have right now is Dunn, and nothing will progress YOLO/Claire/Makaze's slots along better than lynching there. So I'm not particularly upset about this lynch, but I'm leaving my vote on Ariadne in case y'all want to swivel. Here's hoping we catch scum. Sully out.
I forgot to mention Athena. Unfortunately, there's not much I have to say there. His early posts didn't stand out to me at all, but his more recent posts are really bad. And settling his vote on Bartozio... does Athena have some personal rule about only voting for people who have barely posted?
Okay, I'm LOVING this back-and-forth between Supa and Claire. And I actually do agree with Supa to an extent here: If YOLO is really so passionate about yeeting Dunn, then why is most of his content just urging people to vote him instead of making an actual case?
The primary reason I've townread YOLO is because of the passion with which he pursues his reads, which strikes me as extremely risky for scum. I barely remember IDNSFMM5, but wasn't YOLO scum in that game, doing pretty much the same thing?
Yeah, I'm tentatively rescinding my townread on YOLO. Naturally, that also is a bad look for Claire. She's been defending him pretty fiercely, and like... this is going to sound crazy, but she sounds like YOLO. It's like she's literally taking words from his mouth, or using a defense he's constructed. I know it's weird, but... that's what I feel like is happening! There's something similar about their posting.
I think part of it is that the way Claire is hard-defending YOLO while he's offline is basically the same way YOLO hard-defended Makaze while they were offline. Could just be a coincidence, but it feels weirdly structured. This probably isn't going to make any sense to any of you, so I'll end this tangent here.
Also I know this looks bad on my part, but I really do feel like the best place for Makaze and Shinori's slots to be is under constant pressure, which they are both providing for each other. That's where I feel like they'll be easiest to solve. I don't think we're in a rush to off one of them, though. They can keep doing... whatever they're doing through D2. It'll only make things easier for the rest of us.
I'm still not entirely against a Dunn yeet, but my confidence there has been shaken. His content just doesn't feel towny to me and Fenrir made a good point about his behavior in Arctic. I played Arctic too, and while IIRC Dunn posted a lot less there than he has here, it was generally the same kind of stuff. But the prospect of scum!YOLO makes me uncertain as to whether this is actually scum, or a weak player scum thinks they can get away with pushing.
Ariadne's content continues to disappoint, and she'd be a fairly informational yeet based on the opinions other players have taken on her. Her last post in particular bugged me. I don't like the way she used "I haven't played Mafia in a while" as an excuse for her weak content. Like, that's true of most of us here (I think). It didn't strike me as a town defense at all. I feel like town would have actually explained why their reads were what they were, instead of apologizing and coming up with an excuse for why they were bad. What she did just looks like buckling under public pressure to draw less attention.
I'm confident enough to put a vote here.
##Vote ariadne
As a final note, yeeting FJP would be stupid right now. I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about this on this site, but there's this thing that happens when a slot is inactive for a very long time and it will probably happen to FJP soon...
Me? Sheep you? Never!
I might independently come to the same conclusion as you, however.
One thing I want feedback on, though. I really don't feel like YOLO/Makaze could possibly be w/w, just because it's way too reckless for YOLO to go out on such a limb defending a buddy when they're on the chopping block. Anybody else get that vibe?
Okay so Dunn actually does flesh out his Claire read in p#661. I didn't see that. Oops.
Regardless, I'm feeling comfortable with a yeet on Dunn TBH. It's not a slot I like a lot, and it would net some nice associatives. Better than most of the alternatives, though I guess I could see Makaze or Shinori being better if one of them slips up.
Also I was going to make a unique point about why FJP and Athena are top lynches when they've hardly posted, but Woopons stole that from me. I agree with their p#665 wholeheartedly. Like, yeah, the two look bad, but they'll probably come around and post more before the day is through and then we'll have some better material to work with.
That's... such a cheap reply. Like, am I supposed to take this seriously? It's not even witty. I give it a Pokimane/10.Hint: She's scum and all she can do is say "he can't read me" and hope you buy that, while not answering the questionOh my gosh. That was EXACTLY what I wanted to know. You're being SO cooperative right now! I just love the way I asked you a question, and then you spent the bulk of your post talking about an unrelated statement, and then you totally glazed over my question! I-I think I'm falling back in love with you! YOU'RE THE MOST HELPFUL PERSON IN THE GAME OH MY GOSH I'M SO-You'd be surprised, Dunnstral can't read me that well anymore. He mostly hard defends me...well accept for in one case where he's scum and I call him out because he knows I won't back down. To say I can read Dunnstral is correct, but sadly the reverse isn't. Now that we're cleared up on that angle. What is Dunnstral doing right now hm? I'll let the rest of you answer that.
Side note: You sheep certainly talk a lot in my absence I can only care so much and I have higher priorities for now. If I feel the need to give this my attention I shall.
Please. If you thought it was a dumb question, you could have just said so.
For real, Dunn. You can do better than just showing up to state the obvious when it happens to support your cause. You should devote your energy to fleshing out your read on Chelsea, not making cheap material like this.
Also where the flip is Shinori on your readslist? I feel like he's said enough that everyone should have an opinion on him by this point.
Somewhat important question: Would I know Ariadne by a different name? They're the only player here I don't think I knew previously.
Oh my gosh. That was EXACTLY what I wanted to know. You're being SO cooperative right now! I just love the way I asked you a question, and then you spent the bulk of your post talking about an unrelated statement, and then you totally glazed over my question! I-I think I'm falling back in love with you! YOU'RE THE MOST HELPFUL PERSON IN THE GAME OH MY GOSH I'M SO-You'd be surprised, Dunnstral can't read me that well anymore. He mostly hard defends me...well accept for in one case where he's scum and I call him out because he knows I won't back down. To say I can read Dunnstral is correct, but sadly the reverse isn't. Now that we're cleared up on that angle. What is Dunnstral doing right now hm? I'll let the rest of you answer that.
Side note: You sheep certainly talk a lot in my absence I can only care so much and I have higher priorities for now. If I feel the need to give this my attention I shall.
Please. If you thought it was a dumb question, you could have just said so.
This is a good post. You talk like preflip associative are a bad thing. If they are, then... I need to go back to Mafia school.
@Chelsea You know Dunn better than anyone else here, and I assume the reverse is also true. In your experienced opinion of being around Dunn, what do you think the real reason is for him being so suspicious of you?
Scum probably has Discord and I'm on Discord 99% of the time, so it really is a pretty cheap townclear if you want to believe I genuinely didn't realize this had started. But I wouldn't clear myself that easily if I were you, I'm not always the "honorable boy" you seem to think I am...I'm leaning no, Sully can do the clandestine $%#! but I feel like he's too much of an honorable boy to do something like this
god am I gonna townread someone for showing up to the game 48 hours late
I'm not on the Shinori wagon, and I read it anyway. And pardon me for resorting to meta right after saying I probably wouldn't use it, but isn't Shinori infamous for doubling down as scum? Like, that one line where they said "If I were scum, this line of action I am taking would make no sense!" felt like a very typical thing for Scumnori to say.
Because all of the towncred you should get for being townie just gets taken away when you go out and say "NOTICE MY TOWNIE BEHAVIOR!" You shouldn't have to call attention to it, there are sixteen other players in the game who can do that for you. Pointing it out on your own behalf just makes it all the more likely that you were only acting that way to "look" townie, not because you actually are town.
GUYS!
Why didn't anyone tell me that the game started? I missed my favorite part of the game! Now the family reunion is over, and the family murderfest is in full swing.
As a bit of a disclaimer (although I can see this sentiment is shared by other players) while I remember playing Mafia with most of you in the past, I don't remember any of your metas. If I did remember your metas, that would probably still be useless information, because it's been two years and you people have probably changed over that time. There is one exception to this, however: I played a game with Claire a few months ago. She was scum in that game, and I failed miserably at reading her. I also got reported to the staff for flirting with her. Oops!
Another disclaimer: I think the "L-word" has fallen out of favor here, so I'll be using my preferred alternative: "Yeet!"
I just finished giving the 11 previous pages a quick read. Honestly, there wasn't much that stood out to me, but I'll comment on a few things that did.
First off, Claire's behavior seems pretty normal to me. In the scum game I mentioned before, she was RPing as a self-deprecating little girl from Danganronpa. She wasn't what I would call "aggressive," but she was definitely scum. She tends to let her RP consume her behavior in-game, and it can be annoying to deal with. I certainly don't townread Claire, but I think reading her based on her tone is silly. Catching scum!Claire takes finesse, as she is pretty good at this game. If Claire is getting what she wants and town isn't winning, then she's probably scum. That's my read on her. She's not someone I would ever trust my read on enough to yeet Day 1.
I can see why Mak Daddy's behavior raises some red flags for folks, but I'm not sold on that yet. They're defending themself pretty earnestly, where I think the optimal scum play would be to downplay the arguments against them. I feel like they're treating other people's opinions (Shinori excluded) as valid, even when they are critical of them. It's the kerfuffle with Shinori that has me interested. This definitely isn't between two scum. I feel like both of their attacks against each other have weight, and I look forward to seeing how things develop there.
Amy's early content strikes me as towny, but then she made that post where she said "I'll be obviously town in a little bit" and her content quality dropped off right after that. She started out as one of the primary influencing voices in the game, but dipped once stuff actually started happening. That's always seemed scummy in my opinion, but I don't think I've ever actually caught scum successfully in Mafia, so maybe my opinions need to be adjusted.
I feel like I can trust YOLO. Supa made a great point about how he included people unlikely to be scum together in his readslist. That feels like the kind of thing mafia would overlook mentioning. And on that note, Supa seems alright too, though I haven't done any deep reading yet.
Bart, Mack, and Athena all seem okay for now. These three have always given me a sort of "clique-y" vibe due to their abnormal timezones. I would place great weight in their reads on each other.
Marth also has a funny timezone, but I didn't see anything in his posts that I can remember now. He might join the above clique if he puts in more content.
Ariadne and FJP feel like they're getting a ton of attention over some lackluster posts. Their content just strikes me as lazy, not particularly scummy or anything. There's so many players in this game, and it wouldn't surprise if there was at least one lazy scum player present. But there's just not that much content to read them on.
And part of this is me just being glad that he's here, but I like Paperblade's content so far. He's made some fresh posts without feeling like he's posturing, and the amount of effort he's putting in probably wouldn't come from scum!Paperblade. That's based off of a personality read, though. Pretty sure I've never played Mafia with the guy.
Also, I didn't know this was a Christian website! All this time, I thought people were self-censoring to be considerate of me! But it's cool that the admins here won't let you swear! Sully approves!
(I'll do a bit more reading and come up with some questions to ask in a moment. For now, dinner beckons.)
Originally Posted by Chelsea
