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    :sob:

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    /in

  3. Postgame#2427

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed oh, i feel it in me bones m8 and it will be a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy (#2406)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#2403)
    Oh yeah, forgot to answer: I'm doing much better @ZeDorkSlipeur
    One day you and I will win a game as town together.

    I was hoping it was this game. Youre fun to play with.
    oh, i feel it in me bones m8

    and it will be a highlight of this pitiable tragicomedy called life

    sláinte
  4. Postgame#2403

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed Oh yeah, forgot to answer: I'm doing much better...

    Oh yeah, forgot to answer: I'm doing much better @ZeDorkSlipeur
  5. Postgame#2381

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed gfg Chuck you had me fooled from the start....

    gfg Chuck

    you had me fooled from the start. about the only moment of weakness you had was your hard turn against pizza was a bit transparent, but not only did you get away with that, you convinced others to do a lot of the work of burying him for you. you successfully went deep and planted the seed that grew victory for your team.
  6. Day 3#1301

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed had me all excited for a sweep and $%#! ...

    had me all excited for a sweep and $%#!

    phone's about to go so quick thoughts: the analysis above looks okay at first blush but i'd still like to dive into potential associative (including D2 this time)

    VC tells me IM dangerously close to postcapping too, so i will post later only if relevant to that
  7. Day 3#1300

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed you $%#! Duplicitous Weasel

    you $%#!

    ##Unvote Duplicitous Weasel
  8. Day 3#1294

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed Yeah, where ppl overcomplicate things for the...

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Eternal (#1291)
    fps is "fancy play syndrome"
    Yeah, where ppl overcomplicate things for the $%#! of it
  9. Day 3#1288

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed also lol at sloth still hard-scumming me....

    also lol at sloth still hard-scumming me. goofball.
  10. Day 3#1287

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed Duplicitous Weasel i suppose there's the slim...

    ##Vote Duplicitous Weasel

    i suppose there's the slim possibility that there's a 4th scum or traitor, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it
  11. Day 3#1284

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed problem is with 2 down already a wolf chick has...

    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicitous Weasel (#1282)
    Quote Originally Posted by sloth (#1280)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicitous Weasel (#1278)
    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDownChuck (#1271)
    Well, I was wrong on Schweppes, I'll admit that. Good job everyone else on staying strong on that vote. I am still baffled by his decision to claim jailkeeper, but I guess wolves do baffling things sometimes. I guess I'll have to ask him about that in the AAR, which fortunately is coming up soon because I believe I had redeemed myself last night:

    I am the cop, and I have a guilty peek on Duplicitous Weasel

    N1 I targeted DJE but was roleblocked. Not sure what else to report. I've got a work meeting starting at 1 but will be around for a bit if people have questions
    That's a lie. You can't get a guilty result on me. This game should have only simple roles so an insane cop or a framer should be too complex.
    That's correct.

    As such, the only world where you are town is one where he's scum lying about a red check on you, as any roles from scum that would allow them to mess up a cop's read (via fake read or switching their targets without their knowledge) would also be too complex for this game.

    Therefore, the best course of action for you here, as Town, would be to be yote, flip green, prove you're town, and allow us to get rid of Chuck next phase. There is no risk here for Town as it's almost certainly 9v1. Do you agree?

    If not, why not?
    Agree. I knew when he claimed the check the best idea was to flip me.

    problem is with 2 down already a wolf chick has like, negative reasons to sacrifice himself just to misang you

    unless he's just FPSing his concession
  12. Day 3#1281

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed 📣🎊📣🎊📣🎊 LET'S GET THIS MUTHAFUCKIN W 🎊📣🎊📣🎊📣

    📣🎊📣🎊📣🎊 LET'S GET THIS MUTHAFUCKIN W 🎊📣🎊📣🎊📣
  13. Day 2#1081

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed i'll set several alarms but i can't guarantee...

    i'll set several alarms but i can't guarantee i'll wake or stay up

    if its any comfort, i have less to lose here than the average townie

    see you on the flipside
  14. Day 2#1080

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed and not only is Schweppes in both of the pairings...

    and not only is Schweppes in both of the pairings i find most viable, but he also is the ideal self-pres vote! will wonders never cease.

    ##Vote Schweppes

    i'd ask y'all to @ me near EoD in case the situation changes and/or i have to claim, but i'll likely be unconscious by that point so ??????????????????
  15. Day 2#1079

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed okay, so here's a tracking of pairwise...

    okay, so here's a tracking of pairwise interaction within my PoE.

    note that i'm working under the assumption that there are two scum left b/c those seem like standard numbers for this size.

    also, all the convenient functions like retro VCs being gone in iso really, really sucks. i suppose due diligence dictates that i should just click through to the thread and just look at it threre, but don't be surprised if i get tired of that.

    DJ/Dweezil

    29 i think i already went over D1. odd thing for weazel to stick his neck out for one vote, and he mischaracterizes the situation here.

    59 DJ has a one-liner on both weazel and shveps. neither say much.

    61 weazel continues the DJ defense. not much new to comment on.

    DWEEZIL'S MINI MENTION MALL PART 1: a few of these responses are pretty shallow when you read into them, including the ones towards sloth and DJ. DJ gets higher partner equity here b/c it only spares a one liner and IIRC it's a correction to DJ's earlier claims of experience with other players - not a drop of solviness there.

    276, this post is actually pretty good, until that painfully diplomatic last line. either this is where scum!DJ realizes that things are getting stale with dweezil or where town!DJ actually starts going to work on him. obv lean the former, but its a glimmer of hope

    281 comes DW's rebuttal, which i have no time to actually verify.

    354-355 seems to be our answer to the 276 point: DJs not following up on issues it raised and just putting DW in the town pile. specifically look how it semi-backpedals on me and how lukewarm and wandering the DW read is. note the specificity on Gira and I by contrast.

    415, DJ is toptown according to DW.

    in addition to the shallowness in these interaction, the amount of them also leaves a bit to be desired. moderately viable pairing.

    DJ/sloth

    now 68 is interesting, it's another light defense of DJ over the same stuff dweezil was defending him from, but they can't both be his buddies. i actually think dweezil looks less partnered in light of this as he actually bothered to be forthcoming with some actual reasoning (however faulty it was) while sloth just kinda brushed Gira off and/or stalled with a meta poke.

    71 is sloth's tentative poke at sussing DJ, not much that pushes me either way here. DJ's 74 miiiight be a counter-signal to sloth due to lack of daytalk (e.g "let's not focus on distancing just yet") but i'll be the first to admit that's pretty weak tinfoil

    p#231 sloth says DJ can have little a petty shade, as a treat

    p#245 interesting attempt to push DJ off of sprout maybe? of course he could have been expecting them to see the game through but that could go either way tbh. what he says is true enough. can't get anything out of this

    DJs p#277 probably refers to formatting more than anything but it still qualifies as a minor, solveless interaction with sloth

    p#355 DJ looks wishy-washy on sloth as well

    p#452 sloth reJ, seems a bit on the nose, but maybe i'm making more noise about wagon-hunting than i should given that it was a maj-only D1 and a more limited set of potential wagons was in play here. it definitely looks more like sloth is legit trying to get his ducks in a row here than at any previous point in this interaction thread.

    p#455 DJ explains its sprout read to sloth in a no-nonsense way. it seems pretty genuine, and perhaps a sloth-read is not germane ATP, but just from tone it seems like DJ is regarding sloth as pretty townie, which is a bit of a jump from 355.

    p#487 sloth shoots down DJ's push on sloth, but in a very congenial way. no shade of any kind. a minor jump from 452, mayhaps?

    p#646 sloth's D1 list. DJ appears in the townlean pile i guess? this formatting is borked. at least it tracks with 487

    p#656 he actually explains the DJ read. it's ok, i guess.

    overall i suppose there's no smoking guns here. a bit of odd moments that stick in my craw, but nothing that really screams scumbuds.

    DJ/Schweppes

    p#19 and p#21 is where this pair first hits it off, and it's not a good start imo. Schweppes post isn't too bad by itself, but DJ reading far too much into it than seems prudent makes it look like a soft partner defense.

    p#59 DJ has a one-liner on both shveps and weazel. neither say much.

    p#75-p#77 maybe has a decent chance to be actual signaling? esp. given how shveps seems to jump to a conclusion. again, we have the "can't both be buddies" problem; in this case i'd say shveps is worse here because, b/c sloth at least said something of note.

    p#329 all good fun and laffs and banter, still, looking for some effort here.

    p#494 bare callout of DJ's michelle vote. substance please?

    p#582 soda's D1 bare list. fair to say that DJ is in his towncore, 3rd from top.

    to me this looks like a huge volume tell in the interactions department. not only are there not a lot of interactions here, the ones that do exist are severely lacking in my view. very viable pairing.

    Dweezil/sloth

    28 is an RVS vote on sloth. it's their first interaction, i guess.

    their first real interaction comes at 81, and boy howdy does it use a lot of words to say not a lot! sloth seems allergic to saying anything regarding an actual read of DW - he hints at positive assessments but immediately backpedals saying it "might not mean anything". tastes pretty TMI-infused to me.

    DWEEZIL'S MINI MENTION MALL PART 2: not gonna repeat myself. lesser partner equity than DJ here, because the detail spared on an irrelevant question might indicate that sloth is someone he actually needs off his case. still nothing groundbreaking

    153 reW is totally void of any probing - very interesting comradery here given nothing definite on their alignment has been spoken.

    178 Dw is "curious" at the reasons behind people towning sloth. now we get vague hints from the other side, but nothing definite.

    and then at 180-181 it just falls apart into japes.

    182-183 sloth points dw to Gira and dw sorta nulls him. there's also a bit on shveps here that will be placed in its proper section.

    256-257 and 262-269 between the two just seem really shallow and signaly/coachy in parts. can't sum it up in a single point, it's just that it doesn't flow like it should. like it's inconsequential and both parties know it from the start.

    273 shroop alert

    288 sloth catches the above, not sure what else anyone could do in this situation so shrug emoji

    318 dw ecplains 273 but given the clarity of language in the rest of his posts it seems like it might be a bit of damage control.

    359 there's a point on DW not pushing Tammy properly, and its there i guess. sorely tempted to read too much into it now that she's flipped - could be testing potential wagons?

    that last interpretation is perhaps supported by the DW mention in 363.

    415 seems to be DW giving sloth a null to slight-scumlean maybe.

    452 re:dweezil sticks out as a pretty big red flag from sloth. it markedly contradicts 359 where sloth seemed interested in his own snarky way in what DW might've had on Tammy; in this post he acts like the thought of considering Tammy anything but town is utterly ridiculous, and i don't see anything that justifies this shift. could be TMI-driven warning off of DW.

    526 sloth displays a total lack of continuity with 452. one rando question sandwiched between banter. hooray.

    646 sloth's D1 list. Dweezil is listed as a toptown, i think. i dunno, overall it doesn't seem like they're actually trying to read each other overall.

    677 i dun even remember the original point of this so lol. lmao

    sure, these two have engaged with each other semi-consistently but there are several weird moments that make me uneasy. moderately viable pairing.

    Dweezil/Schweppes

    DW's first crack at shveps is a bare, seeming town lean @179. not much to do but note it down.

    183 might be an inconsistency, it might be just wanting another perspective to confirm. we shall see (SPOILER: we shan't)

    415, Schweppes is toptown according to DW. not much progression i can track.

    582 soda's D1 bare list. DW is 5th from the bottom, so i'd guess null-scum.

    wow, this is even worse volume and substance than the DJ/Schweppes affairs! very viable pairing.

    sloth/Schweppes

    i'd say the fun here begins at 122 when sloth questions an odd post of shveps. aside from the *vague hand gestures* bit being hilarious given his posting thus far, not sure what to make of it yet. it's a very mild challenge so it could hint at a slight negative positioning, but this could always be the ol' split strategy in action

    153 re:shveps seems pretty empty but at least it pretends to have alignment questions.

    154 follows up the above with some shade. while the total lack of alignment language grates on me, at least it's something.

    167 on schweppes...yeah that's strange alright. can't help but notice your response towards him is the least pointed of any item in this post, tho

    199, i know things were still pretty jokey re:sloth atp, but the combination of an actual apparent reason in 210 and the doubling down in 213 make me think sodie-pop mighta been more serious than he was lettin on here.

    220 there is no vote for sloth (he's on Raja instead) so this might be a walkback in response to Michelle? maybe

    231 sloth keeps up with the very mild negging of schveps. then at the end of his post (responses to michelle) he's putting up a pretty clear defense of him. even with mineral-water's marginally more convincing performance above, this is starting to smack of wolf theatre

    at least sodalord is staying his own course pretty well @238, although the total ignore-ance of 231 irks me

    245 sloth just lol-defenses shveps. will this be stood for?

    365-368 apparently it will (although he could've just forgotten). i feel like this series of posts is taken best as a single bloc, because shveps posts are so basic and sloth is mostly going back to a previous question. what really irks me here is that the way he addresses soda in the first line reads as blatant signaling, and the preoccupation with "viable" wagons here seems inappropriate. at this point in time, the """wagons""" were a bunch of 2-votes vs. a bunch of 1-votes; you'd think in this environment, from a town POV, viability wouldn't be much of a concern and one would feel free to push their own favored candidate. i don't see that here.

    371-373 i don't get much from this exchange.

    391 you see, i feel like with the whole thunderdome with michelle debacle, we've had plenty of experience with genuinely frustrated sloth, and the addressing of soda in this post does not seem to track with that. again, smells scummy.

    448 idle question to Raja re:soda, nothing that moves the needle for me here

    497 total fob-off of sloth from soda here. 1 and 2 points are valid. 3 not so much, although it could potentially come from disgruntled town.

    502 majorly shifts soda's Davidoff Window towards sloth, but i think it's adequately explained. could be setting up for a potential sloth bus but then again, if anyone was gonna hang back with that possibility in mind as town, it'd be soda. this also tracks with 497

    582 soda D1 list. sloth is 4th scummiest. doesn't change much from previous analysis FMPOV.

    646 sloth's D1 list. soda appears...i dunno, definitely not in a townish place. i wonder if the formatting being as messed as it is is deliberate.

    698-707 is a back and forth where i find soda is a voice of restraint, while sloth is a bit more gung-ho on pursuing Bur. minor points towards being unaligned methinks, i don't think quickswitching was an option here, and wolves might be averse to lining up elims so openly.

    of all the pairings, i feel this one the least, although by a narrow margin. it's certainly still possible, but the volume improvement over time gives me pause.

    -----

    and this is like, the eleventy-billionth time that the multi-iso has $%#!ed itself out of existence so $%#! it, this is my legacy, sordid, rushed, and limited to D1 as it may be.
  16. Day 2#1077

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed $%#! my life and everything in it

    $%#! my life and everything in it
  17. Day 2#1023

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed :philosoraptor: how vexatious the predicament of...

    how vexatious the predicament of this eventide is

    time to show all my cards.

    honestly i feel like this Day has gifted me a nicely solid PoE.
    • Raja's clear on principle rn
    • my earlier towncore (Axel, Chuck, Gira) has held steady
    • Bur i was getting minor town signals from before, with his analysis today he's followed up on those pretty well
    • i wanted to dunk on spf but i think the way she conducted herself during that exchange is p. obvtown
    • the more i mull over the Michelle v. sloth thing, in addition to both of their histories toDay, the more i root for shelly


    that leaves:
    DJ
    Dweezil
    Schweppes
    sloth

    my current sleep schedule suggests I will miss EoD, so if there ever was a time to lock in my vote, it'd be tonight

    i do share several people's dissatisfaction with how stagnant things have generally been, and usually that's a sign that a PoE including Schweppes really needs to be examined

    the problem is i've been feeling really draggy today, so not sure i can do more than a comparative ISO skim in service of this. also maj only sux.
  18. Day 2#983

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed pretty spot on assessement of that DJ post in...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#936)
    <shnippity-doo-dah>

    Quoting this just because I had the opposite reaction to this post from DJ. I thought he was actually making an argument that we should be looking more at Phraze. It might have been a half-hearted argument, but if he was a scum buddy, it’s one he didn’t need to be making at all. I think your timing is off here. Gira had not “explicitly committed” to voting Phraze when DJ made that post. At that point Gira had said they felt like a Phraze wagon was almost just like a random wagon.

    I don’t know what you were saying at that point, but I don’t think your were voting Phraze, we’re you?

    The point is that this post reads like a (again, half-hearted) suggestion that we should look closer at Phraze - and suggests there could be value from a Phraze elimination, even if she’s considered LHF.

    That’s how I’m reading it.
    pretty spot on assessement of that DJ post in hindsight. considering my own arguments in regard to the shift towards Phraze, i think i can spare some town points for DJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#938)
    Not big conclusion for such a big wall.
    Please give me a GTH (gun to head) read for me and sloth


    Also the next post describing the thread posts are not extremely useful because is hard to read.
    If you are town Usux please stick to the conclusions
    my head can only hold small thoughts apparently.
    GTH you towny, sloth scummy. although i thought it was apparent that i was moving in those directions beforehand.

    i would make my posts easier to read, but i've tried a couple times and i think i can confidently say i don't know how.
    and as for conclusions, i would ask the same thing of sloth.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#939)
    K, I skimmed Sprout. At least they didn’t have many posts. Comments about Phraze pre-Raja claim were almost none. Just one post, I think.

    #525: in which Sprout says they are “highly suspicious” of Phraze, because they don’t buy the whole “I’m analyzable enough” thing when Phraze hasn’t done anything this game (“nothingburger”)

    Which, like, it’s fine. There’s some irony because Sprout has also basically been a nothingburger thus far. There is never a vote for Phraze.

    My main concern here is that I take it Sprout is/was fairly inexperienced. Which muddies the waters in terms of what to expect. I can’t say this is particularly clearing or condemning. Sprouts general lack of engagement is overall more of an issue, but, as I say, it’s hard to say if that means anything from a new player.
    well, their replacement has produced lots of juicy new content for you to dig into. i'd love to hear your take on it.

    ---

    michelle analysis of soda from 941 is...so-so. it comes across as nitpicky and it looks like she misunderstands that the 5 players he highlighted are his suspects. but points 2 and 3 land for me.

    ---

    definitely firmer townread on Bur given the series of posts from 945-948. the progression from the opening PbP to the conclusions post looks really organic and cage-free, with specificity in the points of doubt and meta reads (plus his questions towards spf) that i feel would be tough to fake.

    @Bur i think you should def give yourself a bit more credit for the conclusions here, i think both the sloth and schveps things are solid.

    ---

    aaaand i'd do more but i'm tired. i also haven't been keeping track of my numbers so i don't wanna cap myself

    suffice it to say that my vibes towards the current wagon situation have been mildly harshed

    and if spf won't do this, i will

    ##Vote sloth
  19. Day 2#981

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed as you've taught me over your last few posts: no...

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#979)
    do you think that i, as a wolf, would be so distressed by gira lightly questioning me about my vote on sloth that i would feel compelled to "fold" and switch to you instead?
    as you've taught me over your last few posts: no

    it was a prompt for you to explain yourself further and you did

    and also my slow distracted $%#! getting to things slightly out of order caused more issues than necessary, but details
  20. Day 2#980

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed fairy nuff indeed also please read 976, where...

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#971)
    my choice to flip to you had nothing to do with gira "challenging" me - i was silently becoming more and more suspicious of you the more that i looked through previous votecounts, and that should be evidenced by the fact that i quoted the votecount on p#666 shortly before gira "challenged" me

    and nope, i said that i thought gira looked unaligned with phraze on p#927 and called him a townlean on p#278. the fact that you went back to my wallpost to do a "gotcha" but still missed that im townreading gira makes me wonder how closely you've been reading my posts in the first place
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#971)
    and hey, fair enough! i brushed off most of your posts while i was reading through the game the first time, and i haven't bothered to take a close look at them until right now - that's the exact reason why i've started wolfreading you and the exact reason why my suspicions toward you have increased. it's not that i "don't townread you" - i think that you are actively wolfy
    fairy nuff indeed

    also please read 976, where i get to the next post and it clarifies your stances for me

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#971)
    and well, i don't feel that confident that schweppes is town, but it hasn't gone unnoticed to me that your primary pushes today (unless i'm misremembering) have been me, DJ, and schweppes, all players that i suspect the wolves would find easy to sit back and push on without having to do much work, which is why i'm concerned that you're sitting back and trying to push a mischop through
    inchresting. you got anything left in your smokepot toDay for any other DJ/soda voters, or is it gonna be all SUX, all the time?



    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#969)
    my issues with usux/phraze:

    usux talked a lot about phraze throughout d1, but their observations about her generally lacked substance - there were mostly reiterations of stuff that other people had already said, or empty observations like: "lol, did phraze really do that?"
    when dealing with unfamiliar hard-to-read players i tend to put stock into what others with meta on them have to say and follow them, rather than try to lead based on my own shallow D1 cold-reads. and in this game that caters to a specific community, that's a big factor. my memory's not the best but i also recall my pointed query about "following the playerlist" never got a satisfactory answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#969)
    on top of that, usux consistently signal boosted the suspicion against phraze and showed a willingness to vote for her, but they never took any real strides to create momentum against her themself. take, for example, this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#377)
    real recognize real

    but seriously, i've linked a previous towngame in one of the aforementioned walls (where i played pretty much exactly like this before getting run over by the scumdozer D1) and now i shall link my only scumgame on the site (in which i remember playing pretty differently, but my memory sucks so w/e). hopefully these better inform people's choices.

    ----

    LIST IN ROUGH TOWN TO SCUM ORDER
    Chuck
    Tammy
    Gira
    Bur
    Axel (got it memorized?)
    sodie-pop
    sloth
    Michelle
    Sprout
    Raja
    Daddy DJ
    Phraze
    Dweezil

    and in my estimation the silence from both DW and Phraze is deafening

    ##Vote Duplicitous Weasel

    going with my gut for now.
    this post reeks of classic scum distancing - u sux is implicitly placing DW/phraze in a dichotomy with each other, and they say that the silence from both of them is "deafening", but they choose to push on duplicitous weasel over phraze based off of "gut". this feels like u sux is positioning themselves to flip to phraze if the thread momentum turned against her, while still ultimately trying to pull the momentum elsewhere
    yeah, i don't get this point at all. that list has both Phraze and Dweezil as bottom scum, cites a behavior that reinforces both of their scumminess, and i voted for the option i intuited was best between the two (which, in case i left it out somewhere, was that DW was actively producing content that i found scummy D1, while Phraze didn't have much for me to read and was additionally experiencing IRL issues). i have no idea where you're getting this concept that i was setting up DW/Phraze as an opposed pair. atp i would've voted both of them if i could.


    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#969)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#560)
    Rn i feel the top votes are in order of preference: Raja, sloth, Michelle (sloth having a very narrow advnatage)

    also up to bumrush DJ ,dseesil or Phraze if you are

    g'night
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#636)
    emphasis mine

    welp, at least i was justified in my hesitance to vote you

    ##Vote Phraze
    as the end of the day draws closer, u sux posts a list of their preferred chop options, of which phraze is completely missing, but they say once again that they would be willing to switch to phraze if other people wanted to vote her. finally, once raj had claimed PR and the momentum was clearly going to shift elsewhere, u sux flipped over to phraze and became the 3rd vote on her wagon
    vote 3 out of 8, spf. that's not exactly a hanger-on vote. also, IIRC, the phraze wagon before this point had been played with a few times but never got. by this point, but she had votes, was in my scum bucket, and we needed maj, so i was happy to try and kickstart it again. anyways, why would scum!SUX try and shift things towards a Phraze-buddy specifically in this scenario, when theoretically i've set up lots of more tantalizing options?

    purple time

    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#636)
    it's not impossible for this progression to come from a villager, but generally, u sux's progression on phraze:

    -lacks a clear depth of thought or an intention to authentically dive into her posts
    honestly didn't clock that there was much there to dive into, except some bizarre comments that i never got a good answer for

    -contains constant suspicion and scrutiny that is ultimately based on shallow observations and reiterations of other peoples suspicions
    addressed above

    -is dictated almost entirely by the momentum of the rest of the thread - showing a consistent willingness to push on phraze but only if other people push on her first
    i guess this is a point now that i check the vote history and see that the two Phraze votes before mine were pretty recent, but again, seems suboptimal from a scum!SUX POV. you are of course free to make the argument that i'm just wifoming it up or got trapped by convergence on multiple scum.


    all of these factors roughly align with how i would expect a wolf to distance from phraze on d1 - the way that u sux talks about phraze throughout d1 give me the impression of someone that is burdened with the TMI that phraze is a wolf and is trying their best to look unassociated from her without actually pushing on her

    (also, i realized while writing this post that i was using the wrong pronouns for u sux - sorry!)

    honestly i rarely gaf about pronouns these days, but i do appreciate the effort
  21. Day 2#978

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed yeah yeah i'm getting to that part, hush

    yeah yeah i'm getting to that part, hush
  22. Day 2#976

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nEtoV8xVQU ...



    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#928)
    so in short, i townlean axelrod, gira, michelle, raj, and schweppes, and i'm still figuring out where i stand with everything else. i'll dive into this game more tomorrow but that's a decent launching off point
    then again, if scrappy townleans were the best you had at this point, i suppose its a bit more understandable.

    i'd still like for you to point to where the disconnect is, and again, why you folded on sloth with lightning speed despite apparently getting major scum vibes

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by sloth (#930)
    @U SUX re:#894 why do you keep saying I'm not reading your posts? It's the second time you've done so and the second time I'm correcting you, and frankly it's a little annoying to make myself go through them because it'd be $%#!ty not to only for you to keep saying that. If you mean that I didn't ask you things about that post you @'d me at, sorry, that's just because you said nothing I wanted to follow up on.
    (ftr, p#658 was not intended as a softclaim.)
    I referred specifically to 646, which i will now directly quote for my point:

    Quote Originally Posted by sloth (#646)
    Speaking of U SUX, I'm trying to read that post he @ me on and it's...quite strange.

    Nothing to do but keep pushing forward. Anything else?
    (emphasis mine)

    this looks to all the world like a complete disregard of what i posted. if you truly have nothing to say to me, fine, but don't be surprised when i'm not willing to follow up on that myself.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicitous Weasel (#933)

    So my intial problem with Sux is that he does a lot of postwalls that one can't properly guage timing from. Like, #185 is just several posts in a row that, given the format, he probably read and analyzed all at once. It's hard to tell how long he took to write this post, so therefore I can't tell how long he actually thought about each post, so it feels like he didn't give them a lot of thought and just kind of had opinions on them. Also a lot of the comments are short little one-liners. It also doesn't look like he read a bunch of posts and came back and made a big picture post, but responded as he came to the posts outlined. Like I said earlier, it's the posting style thats "scummy" because it's hard to read/analyze accurately, and is by it's very nature, shallow. He does link a game where he does this as town though, so I can't hold this against him TOO much. But, at the same time, it's easy for scum to fake this playstyle while also serving the scum agenda of having a bunch of shallow, flexible reads. Regardless of the fact that he does it as town, it's still a scummy thing to do, and the longer it continues, the more likely it's agenda-based.

    In #377 I dislike his claim that I'm being silent at the end, given I'd posted some 12 hours before that. I wasn't lurking. He couldn't justify it with actual reasons, so me fabricated one. Also the verbiage is hyperbolic/dramatic in a way that is not generally natural. Also also chooses me over now-confirmed-scum Phraze.

    Also something something I dislike the specific reasons (#29,#150) he is scumreading me for in his first catchup but that could be bias on my part. 29 he's letting his read of DJ color his read of me and 150 is a language read.

    Summary: Most of his reads are fairly shallow, and he seems to get stuck in his specific reads, not really reevaluating. Potentially agenda-driven weak reads. Hyperbolic, dramatic verbiage. I also dislike how he's handling his scumread of me.

    Lean Scum


    <read the rest of it yourself, if you really want to>

    Chuck/Raja
    Bur/Gira
    Axel/Sloth/Michelle/StayPos
    USUX
    DJ Eternal

    first point against me...ehhh, what can i say. i am a kinda shallow and callow and lazy bastich. i play mafia as a game for fun, not some super-srs intellectual pissing contest (in which i would almost certainly lose and not have fun). i am basically just shooting commentary at every post as i come across it; i rarely go at things with any intentionality or plan unless i feel like i've caught some one, like, dead to $%#!ing rights. as i have stated before, i play by the seat of my pants. there's also the fact that any "timing" aspect of my play is almost certainly gonna be sabotaged by my terrible ADD-brain, which will inevitably lead to things like a short post taking an hour+ to finish because i was $%#!ing around with 5 other unrelated things in the meantime.

    please note that in the past, my approach to the game was basically the exact opposite of this, paired with an unhealthy obsession with winning and reputation. as time wore on i became more and more miserable playing the game (and just generally insufferable to be around). i took a multi-year hiatus and promised myself if i ever came back to the game, it would be based on a total reevaluation of what the game means to be and how i could approach it in a healthy way. U SUX represents this rebirth of sorts, and while several people here might be dissatisfied with the results, i myself couldn't be happier, and ultimately that's what matters to me. i'm not going to change the way i post and play simply because other people would find it convenient for me to do so.

    to get back to the point however, i strongly dislike how you seem to chastise other people for townreading my posts in the rest of this read list - i can detect no similar levels of smoke around DJ reads, even though he's apparently scummier than me here

    i'm assuming the "fabricated reason" you refer to is in the tail end of 389. i don't see a damn thing wrong with what i posted about you there. it's simply stating the reality of what i saw in 333.

    what's really funny is that, in spite of all this, i agree pretty hard with all of your colored reads that aren't me. so i'm definitely not closed to the possibility that the rift between us isn't as justified as it seems.
  23. Day 2#966

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed lol, that sloth vote lasted long. according to...

    lol, that sloth vote lasted long. according to your 927 wall Gira seems to be a null read, so i don't understand why you feel the need to immediately fold in response to him challenging you. also if you wanted to hear more about sloth's defunct Michelle campaign, keeping your vote on him sounds like the more productive path at this juncture.

    of the Days i would be accused of coasting, D1 would seem to fit the bill far more than toDay. also my shifts tended to favor Schweppes, put neither of you past null-scum, and your angle that i'm pushing a mischop through speaks to a confidence in town!Schweppes i don't see in 927. speaking of that post:

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#927)
    u sux: no offense to u sux, but his posting style just absolutely goes right through me. i found it extremely difficult to retain any of the stuff that i read in his posts, and i have no idea what his alignment is. his progression on phraze generally looks OK but is within bussing territory (particularly because he continually voiced suspicion toward phraze but didn't switch to her until after raj had claimed and the momentum had started to sway against her)
    this is what you have to say as far as me being the least townread (which tracks, as it seems that DJ was the only one below me at the time). if you're town, this is not a good way to go about things because you aren't looking for bad or difficult or stylistically-weird players per se – you're looking for scum. if you want this understood, you need to loop this back to how you think it indicates TMI and/or agenda-driven play. if you want to understand my posts better, ask me about them.
  24. Day 2#958

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed i don't have much to add to this, outside of my...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#918)
    <just here for the post link lol>

    Gotta say, I realize this is premature, but if I had a gun to my head and I had to pick now, this is where I would go.
    i don't have much to add to this, outside of my limited experience saying the "i don't care" attitude is pretty baseline for him

    i know i might sound like a broken record at this point but its the truth; i'm not sure this is A Big Deal like you (and a couple others) think it is. given what has already been said about Phraze's position in the game, it gives me a slight scum lean more than anything. given my previously indicated progression on both soda and Sprout-slot, however, if it came down to those two, i might be more inclined to vote Schweppes on the basis that there's more content and connections there to analyze post-flip.

    ---

    926 honestly gets at why i didn't like DW in a shellnut. avoiding giving solid, consistent scumreads and his targets seem like ones of opportunism. but i'll go ahead and trol for his response, if any...

    oh boy, it's a wall stuck in the middle of a bunch of other walls. brb need a tea break
  25. Day 2#957

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed dfshjkl yeah, i mean you acknowledge...

    dfshjkl

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#914)
    Gira (or, Mr. Grumpy):

    Gira 1st mentions Phraze in 119 when he asks Phraze what they meant when they said that - if they were going by playerlist - UDC was scum. This is the same question I will ask Phraze later when Phraze does it again. I don't think Phraze ever responds to anyone on this. At 227 says he's not sure he's going to be able to read Phraze at all. I am wondering now about their history and if Gira and Phraze have played Mafia together before.

    As of 540 Gira is saying that Phraze is basically the equivalent of a random vote. He would vote Phraze over someone he was actively Townreading, but otherwise would not be thrilled to vote there. This is probably consistent, if easily something a scum buddy could say.

    He then indicates he's going to try and actually look up some of Phraze's other games to see if he can get a read. This might answer my question if they have played together before. Afterwards, the conclusion is "a big shrug." Suggests that, as Mafia Phraze might try and be a little more helpful with giving reads, whereas as Town it looked more like this, but, he qualifies, that is not a read he would hang his hat on. Kind of impossible to evaluate this. On the one hand, I want to say that going and looking up someone else's games to try and get a read on them and comparing their posting is Town. But, on the other hand, the conclusion here is so devoid of any details, aside from being a big shrug, that it could easily have been completely fabricated.

    Problem I am having with Gira is that Gira is making it rather clear through multiple posts that he is not enjoying this game, is bored and/or annoyed with multiple other players, and it all gets a bit unpleasant. That also, incidentally, makes him harder to read. So that's a double negative or something.

    The most interesting part comes at 601,602 and 604, where Gira somewhat out of the blue votes for Phraze. Says Phraze's most recent series of posts have put him over the edge. Not, I take it, that he gets a specific scum-read, but more that Phraze is being useless and just not even trying to play. It is more of a policy lynch argument here than anything else. Says Phraze is not giving any indications they are going to change, and the Town is inevitably going to lynch her at some point, so best to get it done now. Says he's probably going to be pushing for a Phraze lynch every day from now on out.

    I want to say that's Town - though it also could be really disgusted scum buddy. Gira does jump to Raja very shortly thereafter as part of that wagon which forced the claim.

    And that was everything pre-claim.
    yeah, i mean you acknowledge yourself how subjective everything here is, i think my town lean of Gira is really down to the way he conducted all these things for me. nothing seemed inflated or twisted from the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#915)
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Eternal (#862)
    I feel so outclassed by most of this playerlist. Y'all are able to put a lot of thought into these interactions. Even though half of you are wrong about me.

    I am going to say that one wolf sr's me and the other tr's me. Nobody other than Michelle and UDC have a solid case against me, and nobody has a solid case for me, so I think those people are worth looking into. More specifically the ones who have vague reads against me because I'm pretty sure I'm the lhf atp in the game.


    Also, as a reminder in case anyone missed it: This day phase is only 6 irl days long.
    @DJ Eternal i am in your wolf reads since day 1.
    From your perspective my case on you should be done in bad faith because you pretend you are a villager who thinks I am a wolf.
    Yet you say here my case on you is solid.
    That is a big problem here, and I think it shows you are not villager.

    Your P#908 last sentence says you have a wolf in your villagers, implying you know you have townies in your Poe.

    P#912 looks like a perspective slip.

    When I talked to you at Eod you said you will post thoughts for everyone next day, and this is in a vacuum a perspective slip. I thought ok, probably if I am wrong and DJ is villager he thinks that the wolves will kill someone more town read.
    So, when i look at your D3 mention, I see the second perspective slip.

    What happened in fact about your promise was that you didn't post thoughts for everyone, you posted just for me and that's not good enough.

    I need opinions here, I wish to understand if i got this correct because the above things rise DJs wolf equity in my opinion.
    @Michelle: while i still wish to engage with DJ for potential legacy purposes, i'd say that first point (with the quote) is pretty damning because town!DJ in that context should at least be willing to talk you down from that. i personally wouldn't sweat 908 because it's a boilerplate way of expressing doubt in my experience. 912 might be something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#916)
    Michelle:

    <snippery>

    If I am going to give Michelle some benefit of the doubt here, it would be that she was definitely more involved in a big post-fight with Sloth up to now, and seemed to think she was onto something there. So it is possible that Phraze was taking a back seat to what she was really interested in.

    Then there's 552 which may be her strongest defense of Phraze. Where she says (1) if Phraze is Town we don't want to mis-chop her, but (2) if she is scum we learn nothing from her chop. Therefore a Phraze wagon on D1 is nonsense. This is more wrong reasoning, but here I know this sentiment at least (that we learn nothing from a Phraze yeet so we shouldn't do it) was shared by more than one other person. Michelle follows this with 603 in response to Gira, posting a link to one of Phraze's (town) games, where the Town yeeted Phraze and lost. She also seems to think that other Town-Phraze games are games the Town lost because they couldn't Town read her correctly.

    I will say this is more defense than I would normally expect from a scum-buddy. To go pull a teammates old (town) game and basically dare the town to compare with this one. It is the kind of thing a Town who felt strongly enough about it would do more often. Obviously not impossible, just more likely.

    I think that was it pre-Raja-claim. I am not at all a fan of Michelle's way of thinking here. But I do get somewhat Town-leaning vibes notwithstanding.
    yeah this is basically where i'm at with her too
  26. Day 2#956

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed ok, I think I'm see where you're coming from on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#901)
    Bur:

    The first time Bur appears to mention Phraze is in 480. This is not really about Phraze at all, but is a question directly to Killjoy (DW). He questions why KJ has said that Phraze (and Sprout) are "null" to him, when earlier KJ had apparently said that everyone starts off as Town in his eyes. Basically, Bur appears to be asking what Phraze and Sprout have done to move them "down" to Null for KJ. Expresses no opinion of his own about Phraze.

    This is followed up on in 510 when Bur appears to prod KJ more for this "read". KJ has answered that the longer people go in a game without acting Townie, the more they drop in his opinion. Bur asks if this means that Phraze and Sprout are lower in his view than someone with no posts at all.

    It doesn't appear that this line was further explored, and the next time Bur mentions Phraze is the post where he actually votes for Raja in 609. Though the vote is for Raja, Bur mentions that he is "willing to vote Phraze too." I cannot see where Bur has expressed any suspicion of Phraze prior to this comment. The timing of it suggests he is piggybacking to some extent on what Gira has recently said about Phraze. I also note that KJ had just said, in the post immediately preceding this one, that he "might" go for Phraze today, or might go for Raja.

    This is okay, though I will say, not great. I feel like it is a very typical scum thing to do, to express suspicion of your fellow scum, while actually supporting the lynch of someone else. It is partly the way the suspicion expressed of Phraze here is so naked and unexplained, and from relatively out of the blue. It's like Bur wants to get that credibility shot in there, but doesn't actually want to push at Phraze in any way.

    Not saying this is what that is. Only that it bears resemblance to "things that scum do." And making a note.
    ok, I think I'm see where you're coming from on Bur now. caveats include the aformentioned point on how shallow associatives with Phraze are necessarily going to be, and also this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bur (#906)
    @Axelrod I didn't express any suspicion on Phraze because I was never suspecting them.
    I said I'd vote them because I didn't want D1 to end in no elimination but I didn't actively want them dead.
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#907)
    DJ Eternal:

    First mention of Phraze is at 59, where in answer to a question, he mentions he's played with Phraze before, and from what he can remember he seems to think that she "freezes" as scum. Also says he's not sure of this because she might have replaced out that game. This is fairly neutral.

    Then in 225, he mentions he is more concerned with "Phraze/Raja/Sprout" right now than Gira. I'm going to say this is fine.

    He proceeds to explain some of those concerns (after being asked?) in 235. He says Phraze seems to be aligning with his (scum) meta, i.e., not doing anything. He quotes some Phraze posts as examples. He also gives an example of a Raja post he doesn't like. I am feeling generally positive about this post. Though it actually ends in a vote for Sprout, what DJ says is that he has the highest hopes that Sprout is actually Town so wants to put the pressure there first. Then jokes about how this might not actually be the right way to play mafia.

    In 435 he gives a list of suspects with Phraze as #3 on the list, behind Michelle and Raja. This does not appear to be particularly inconsistent with what he has said before.

    In 453 he asks Phraze "what are you doing?" This appears to be in response to Phraze having just voted for Sloth in #450. Them in 458 he comments that he has heard that Phraze gets more involved later in the game so he is willing to give them a chance. This maybe goes a little against what he has said before, but not too much.

    In 585 DJ makes what in hindsight looks to be a pretty good post about Phraze, remarking that a lot of people seem to be saying that Phraze hasn't done much, but no one seems to want to commit to that. DJ himself seems reluctant to commit to that, hedging with "I'm not advocating yeeting the lhf" but, at the same time, he's bringing the topic up and doesn't appear to be opposed to it either. He seems to be saying that hitting the lhf here might not really be that bad. And that is something that I would think is less likely to be coming from a scum-buddy in that position. Not impossible, but less likely.

    DJ joins the Raja wagon at post #614, and I think that's everything prior to Raja's claim.
    i mean, this all re:Phraze is probably not gonna be a huge barrier for scum to cross. i also think i previously expressed disagreement on the 585 point. however, this segues nicely into DJ's response:

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Eternal (#908)
    UDC, I wasn't defending Phraze in any way. I was noting how nobody seemed to have strong opinions about her despite everyone saying they had strong opinions about her.

    Of all the people who sr me, I find sux to be the towniest. Part of that is because Michelle's sus of me seems like omgus, frankly I am having a hard time following udc's progession on me (ironic, i know), and the validity of raja's claim is debatable.

    Also I am starting to sus soda now. As town, he is the Rocky Balboa of mafia: slacks in the start of the day, but picks it up and is a major influuencer of vots at eod. He hasn't done that yet.
    the first point might be just taking advantage of a gap in town's thinking, but rereading the post in question with that reasoning in mind, it holds up.

    of your scumreads i'd have to say my biggest disagreement is Michelle. might be slowly moving from null to scum on both spf and soda
  27. Day 2#954

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed i don't follow even leaving aside how lo-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raja (#900)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#895)
    now that i have a more complete grasp on events i can see what a left turn 826 is from 781. what convinced you to abandon the sloth crusade, @Raja?
    Already explained in P#861
    Quote Originally Posted by Raja (#861)
    3: Yes i said i will push your lynch.. But Phraze's flip and her earlier vote on you make me believe for now that you may be town afterall cos AFAIK a scum won't vote her partner in mid of day phase when there is an actual case against them. (Referring to Michelle's case/push on you D1). So... Thats all that changed my mind and i kept aside the idea of pushing your lynch.
    i don't follow

    even leaving aside how lo-pro Phraze was, and the misgivings about the D1 thunderdome, why would a good case on sloth discourage a scum partner from voting him? sounds like the perfect cover IMO
  28. Day 2#895

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZyAm-D3nlk ...



    Day 2 babeh (at least what I've missed)

    ---

    I have to concur with Bur's 796

    hmm, inchresting 797, DJ. were you one of the people razzing me for having shallow reads/posts D1?
    ...searching...
    nope. nvm then.

    798-799 from Gira i can mostly concur with. normally I'd say i'd like a non-fearkill perspective on Tammy, but considering how broadly townread she was it probably isn't productive. it may be a good starting point on Sprout-slot.

    already spoke on 802 (and 814,and 821 i think)

    Michelle didn't forget about DJ's promise and neither did i. he might've though, according to 810-811. yep, he definitely did @817. shambles.

    as of 825 i might be seeing some glimmers of towniness from DW (and at least his posts get to the point unlike a lot of sloth's) but it could also be just cranking up the meter from scum. i will say that his response to sloth makes me lean non-aligned.

    now that i have a more complete grasp on events i can see what a left turn 826 is from 781. what convinced you to abandon the sloth crusade, @Raja?

    another stank-$%#! response from DJ @829. like i get that Raja's claim might never get proven and we may eventually have to decide for ourselves what we think of him, but DJ zeroing in on this issue, toDay, is very much NAGL.

    830, ehh, I appreciate the perspective but i don't think hammer analysis in the Phraze situation is A Big Deal, given how LHF she was and how it was required to get an elim (s/o to Gira @836)

    843 contains a quality meme, but either i don't get sloth's playing style at all or his posts aren't really heading anywhere. sure, he's /looked/ plenty busy in many of his posts but precious little space in them is taken up by positions or conclusions, and again, they just feel padded out

    idk how to check, but if DW really hammered with 8 minutes to go then Michelle's previous attack on DW makes even less sense b/c what groundbreaking information is gonna come out in that time? it feels like the real point against DW is in 847, and i've just articulated my position re:that

    Chuck clarifies his stances + keeps winning @848 and environs

    852, ehh, wouldn't go that hard yet, Gira. give her a chance

    855, if i'm gonna trust this analysis, @Axelrod, i'd say DJ is by far the most likely scum in the OK category, and Dweezil is the winner in the town category. in the dump pile it's hard to decide between sloth and Sprout-slot – GTH i'd say sloth b/c i feel like scum would be pretty wary of having two obvious lurksacks. i can assume that the "split strategy" of placing scumbuds is pretty familiar to MTGS, right?

    i don't think the Raja/Axel scrap here is productive. Schweppes not moving the needle for me either.

    and AFAICT there is no followup on Axel or Bur's weird stuff. kk, gonna consider myself caught up for now.

    ---

    as has been discussed, i'm willing to give our new replacement space to breathe for now (also real life stuff is a thing.)

    belaying that,

    ##Vote DJ Eternal
  29. Day 2#894

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1PTN0Zdy7E ...



    time to "Deep Dive" into last EoD huehuehue

    ---

    658 goes straight into the "will he actually proactively follow up on this softclaim D2 so Raja can't be used as a distraction (as i've peeked it is to at least one townish person, Axelrod, at present) or is this just scumming" file. it's a very impractically named file, but it may help us later.

    Raja does have some indep reads at 660 i guess, but there's precious little meat on them bones, as several people have called out. also the second Gira point @664 doesn't hold water from what i recall (UPDATE: also called out @669). Worth noting if/when we have to make a decision on him in the fyoocher.

    counterpoint: Gira talks about avoiding "projecting confidence [he] doesn't have" @663 but that assertion doesn't seem to track with his early D1 play.

    DJ's weird-$%#! pre-emptive defense against Michelle @672 STINX.
    Michelle's response and probing is pretty towny.
    Sprout's response to Michelle's response seems like a pretty lame soft defense to me. they also could've deleted all the words after the final comma in 679 and been fine. one could argue that town!Sprout telling the truth about their situation would post basically the same thing, but the way it's phrazed (heheh) gives me the heebie-jeebs.

    Bur's claim clarification request @680 outranks every other in my book, including my own. this is all vital information that needs to be outed where fullclaims are allowed, maaaayybe #3 is a bit of a stretch but then again they did tell Raja to obfuscate any limitations, Raja did explain his power pretty vaguely, and more wifom for the scumz is always good.

    I know this has nothing to do with the original content of the post, but Axel's 684 has clued me into something i missed - sloth's blatant disinterest in reading my posts while having me on his $%#!list. again i understand i'm not the Most Accomodating Mafia Player but like, i offered several times to people having trouble with me to quiz me on specifics, dude. sure, EoD fever might've been a factor but i still can't vibe with this seeming suggestion that trying to read me is a lost cause

    anyways, Raja's full claim checks out. Bur & Shelly back and forth looks p.towny. Also the "Ozzy Osbourne Cosplayer" being a veterinarian might be a darkly humorous reference to the infamous bat incident? idk

    shveps and sloth reaction to the Phraze wagon being cemented both seem oddly salty. from the discourse down-page (and topping page 15) my assessment of the people involved in order of favorability is soda/Bur/sloth. VERY inchresting soft from Bur @702 as well.

    oh look, Tammy actually raised my points about claims in the moment, whee!

    let's see if DJ holds up his 708 promise
    and Axel @726
    otherwise this page seems to be mostly banal EoD politicking + more sloth vs shelly smoke

    local Phraze just gives up @702

    I can appreciate the synchrony on DJ, Michelle

    anyways this page made me go cross-eyed until Raja's 781 - very bold statements, and an oddly timid sloth response. if no PR shenanigans are involved, another reason for Raja's survival could be scum!sloth trying to get towncred (see also the note on 658 above). not sure why this speaks to me and gives me a definite lean on sloth v Michelle suddenly, but it does.

    and I'm willing to subtract minor scumpoints for that DW hammer. minor.

    ---

    so aside from having a more definite position on the sloth vs Michelle debacle, and being mildly sus of Sprout slot, i wouldn't say there's anything groundbreaking yet. but there's a whole new Day to dig into, and a lot of loose ends to tie up therein.

    and I will get to that right after some pizza.
  30. Day 2#886

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed whoops i got drunk and watched old anime instead....

    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#834)
    i will also be very unavailable on the 12th/13th (Superb Owl weekend) so i guess i just gotta cram in as much effort as i can tomorrow
    whoops i got drunk and watched old anime instead. might have time to do a Q&D catchup tonight tho
  31. Day 2#834

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed sup guyz. good start. i have not yet done a...

    sup guyz. good start.

    i have not yet done a proper re-read/re-eval (never do overNight, in case i get NK'd).

    i will also be very unavailable on the 12th/13th (Superb Owl weekend) so i guess i just gotta cram in as much effort as i can tomorrow

    for now i'll just comment on whatever has caught my eye thus far.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Raja (#828)
    I am curious as to why i am alive.
    Like in my community... If a Doc is outed.. They are most likely to be killed that night.
    Though, self heals exist.. And i am glad i have not used that yet 😁

    Anyways... As for me being alive. Following can be the case:
    1: One of my townreads is scum and they want to keep me alive for support in thread.
    2: One of my scumreads is town and scum will try pushing them in hopes that i will follow along.
    3: Maf think i may have X-shot modifier... And they don't consider me a threat
    Sadness intensifies 😑
    unless i push some of their teammate hard in Day phase.
    4: Maf has a roleblocker/strongman of some stripe, and thus you actually aren't a threat at all - at least for the time being. in any case we shouldn't be tinfoiling over this right now.

    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by Gira (#814)
    inb4 sloth is spilling scum salt in-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDownChuck (#802)
    At work and pretty busy, but I think Michelle has jumped to being close to my top townread based on how boldly she defended Phraze and how much Phraze tied themself to her. I virtually never see wolves tie themselves together like that and wolf!Michelle would have to have known Phraze was going down at some point.

    I think DJE and Bur are my top wolf reads. DJE's entrance today is basically what I'd expect from a wolf, and his EOD yesterday was poor (which I actually alluded to at the time as I was thinking he'd make a good partner to Phraze)

    ##Vote DJ Eternal
    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDownChuck (#805)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bur (#609)
    ##Vote Raja

    I'm willing to vote for Phraze too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicitous Weasel (#608)
    I might go Phraze today. Might also go Raja based on wagon comp.
    ^At least one wolf in here imo
    i can potentially dig on all of this tbh

    still tend to lean town on Bur tho, barring anything else potentially damning i missed at EoD
  32. Day 1#657

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    65,885

    Completed now that i look at it more thoroughly, i would...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy (#642)
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#638)

    But Raja needs to claim more thoroughly. That's all I'm saying about that.
    This.
    now that i look at it more thoroughly, i would concur with you (and Tammy)

    you only "help" people survive a killing action, Raja? it's not guaranteed?
  33. Day 1#655

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed that's right. the flow of the post here is i see...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#605)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#185)
    of the first few posts DJ Eternal's 7 really sticks out to me as unnatural scummy LAMIST. Bur can try to make sense of it (which i townlean) but since i know literally noone i will NAWT.
    @U SUX this is an eg of ambiguous posting
    Later you voted DJ so I think is a SR in fact
    Am I right?
    that's right. the flow of the post here is i see scumminess from DJ -> Bur seems to put it as town -> i don't have the context for that being town!DJ so Bur's opinion doesn't land for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#599)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#558)
    gonna focus mainly on Michelle, Raja, and sloth here - with the way things have been going i think those are the only options that might realistically get us a chop

    What usefulness has such a narrow focus? If sloth is scum i doubt Raja is, if sloth is town Raja's scum equity rises, but what about other players?
    this was a statement of (what i thought was) reality, instead of preference. while i didn't think any of these vote options were ideal, with the pace and atmosphere of the game being what it was i felt that voting anyone else might have ended up basically voting to Sleep and i was better served looking at the candidates that actually had some popular support. in the pages since it looks like things are quite a bit more flexible than i've anticipated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#599)
    I asked for complete thoughts in P#194, he in P#231 said my idea is ridiculous (could he say otherwise?) also said my question is the wrong one to ask, like I need a lecture regarding how to play mafia, and said I am scum because I only asked about me, ignoring the rest of his post.

    The thing is I only know my own alignament and that means I can judge the others by the way they are talking about me faster than analyzing their thoughts about the others. It's normal to focus on myself. So this is not scum indicative.


    definitely get what you're saying on the analysis part, i remember a couple of players who operate in that way. in 231 sloth was already showing the first signs of the "overengineered" quality i disliked about his posts. the thing is, if that post really was meant to be ~awesome genius wolfbait~ and he thought he'd got a bite, the excitablitiy with which he'd pursued you and misinterpreted your actions. when dealing with something like this you need to reach a decision on whether the misinterpretation is done in good or bad faith, and even with all i've gone through i've been chronically unable to reach that decision as an outside observer. you say sloth has played with you before @Michelle, would you say he knows you well enough to know that this is your towngame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#599)
    Another sentence in that post says
    Quote Originally Posted by sloth
    Meaning your vote is based on factors that would remain the same regardless of my either alignment? Or?
    and I consider that a bad faith question.
    The questions about Schweppes are also put in a way that show for me the intent to push rather than solve

    I answered in P#233 and he answered in 234, and started the strong push on P#289.
    I pointed out in P#295 that his stance
    Quote Originally Posted by sloth
    Yep, I'd definitely join a Michelle wagon. She's one of those I think has the higher potential to flip as scum upon yeet.

    is scummy, he in P#301 said he is not in a hurry to move vote because day is long, and I answered at that in P#337 that he doesn't have a real intent to solve me, because imo no vote means no reaction, no reaction means no content, hence no solve.
    P#359 he has in irritated tone because I stepped on his toes with my accusation (why would town have this reactions?) and anything he said is town indicative fmpov, and in the next post he finally voted me, the player he said in recent posts he thought I am scum since my first post. Took him a while to say this.
    Fixed the links to all posts to be readable

    I also have questions/ideas inside the quote in bolded colored, but I think is enough about this. I felt the need to describe how my interaction with sloth went, partially for me to check if we are not townies talking past each other.
    Waiting for ideas from everyone else here because I don't see how sloth can be villager.

    @U SUX please reformulate the conclusion because I don't get it, maybe is playstyle but many sentences are ambiguous for me.
    i explained the terminology question in a previous post. to the meat of the matter: i've really been wracking my brain to figure out who among you two might be scum beforehand, and try as i might i can't reach a definitive answer. sloth's casework has been more wordy and detailed than yours but at some point it just seems overexplained and padded. you, on the other hand, are a lot more direct and simple in your approach which i vibe more with. At a lot of points, however, it seems like the well runs dry and you fall into repeating the same talking points. and a lot of the back and forth seems like misinterpretations stacked on top of misinterpretations. i suppose there's something to be said for not letting the beef between you two clog up the next Day as well as this one, and i know this is probably frustrating for everyone involved, but me having the difficulty i am having coming to grips with, i should be forgiven for having difficulty throwing my vote into the ring.

    As for the links to previous games you mentioned, @Michelle
    they are in this next post


    I did play Mafia a lot in my younger days but i've returned after a multiple-year hiatus and now have a completely different style. so the two games i link in the quoted posts below should be considered definitve at present.

    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDownChuck (#611)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#377)
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#374)
    USux has successfully wall-posted me into an unvote. That much work deserves respect!
    real recognize real [excised format-breaking heart] but seriously, i've linked a previous towngame in one of the aforementioned walls (where i played pretty much exactly like this before getting run over by the scumdozer D1) and now i shall link my only scumgame on the site (in which i remember playing pretty differently, but my memory sucks so w/e). hopefully these better inform people's choices. ---- LIST IN ROUGH TOWN TO SCUM ORDER Chuck Tammy Gira Bur Axel (got it memorized?) sodie-pop sloth Michelle Sprout Raja Daddy DJ Phraze Dweezil and in my estimation the silence from both DW and Phraze is deafening ##Vote Duplicitous Weasel going with my gut for now.
    @U SUX, this is the post in my mind where you really committed to scumrading Weasel. Yes, you had indicated suspicion of him prior, but you'd also walked that back a little by looking at a town game and seeing that over-explaining was something he does as town. The posts I scumread of DW's, where he was complaining about people kinda scumreading him but not commiting, but then not pursuing those people himself, happened before this post by you. So I think his complaint could be considered accurate when he made it, although in writing this I tend to think he should have been pursuing you earlier instead of only doing it after you voted. It does look like he ran out of posts though. So anyway, point being I think his complaint that people were scumreading him without committing to it was true when he wrote it, as you committed after. I'm curious how you went from the above post to
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#555)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gira (#539)
    @U SUX why are you voting duplicitous weasel
    because i'm a pathetic pile of esquivalience in the shape of a man ##Unvote Duplicitous Weasel new stuff in progress
    It seems like nothing changed with DW even if the Michelle/Raja issues became more interesting.
    i kinda answered this in my responses to Michelle but basically i didn't see the pace of the game picking up enough (or enough people onboard with DJ/DW) to strike out on my own and actually get a majority
  34. Day 1#640

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed A post limit is not a reason to not talk, you can...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#628)
    sorry. i'm not very good at this game.

    i'm also limited in my posts left so i probably won't be talking much
    A post limit is not a reason to not talk, you can make a wall and share your opinion about everyone.

    You still have plenty of posts for this[/QUOTE]

    i'm inclined to agree with Michelle here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#635)
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#632)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#631)
    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#619)
    oh, lol

    i thought that said 16 minutes instead of 16 hours

    calming down now
    A dumb read says someone who mistakes the Eod time cannot be a wolf because scumchat knows better when is Eod

    The read is dumb because is fake-able, but for me it looks genuine in this moment
    Also, there is no scumchat....
    My bad i forgot lol

    I just woke up
    yeah, the only one who's coaching me is myself

    and i'm not very good at it

    will address my @s shortly
  35. Day 1#636

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
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    65,885

    Completed emphasis mine welp, at least i was justified...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raja (#620)
    👀
    So people did jump on my wagon. Cool cool.
    I am at L-2.
    Guess i should claim now. 🤔

    I am Town Veterinarian.
    I give medicine dose at night to people which can help them survive killing action.
    emphasis mine

    welp, at least i was justified in my hesitance to vote you

    ##Vote Phraze

    Quote Originally Posted by Raja (#621)
    With that being said..
    I recommend others to Vote Gira.
    I gave my reason for him earlier. And those reasons still stand and even lately he is just trying to get a freebie lynch.
    He has not added significant stuff (like he was doing at start).
    hmm, i'll look back on this in a bit.
    right now we should be focused on your legacy @Raja

    who are your top scum right now, apart from Gira?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#627)
    Soooo, how is a Veterinarian dark exactly?
    i dunno, using drugs for far-off-label purposes in a desperate situation?

    i don't think it's pro-town at all to lead a gung-ho hang on a PR claim D1. if he's still alive D2, maybe.
  36. Day 1#629

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    65,885

    Completed https://i.imgflip.com/64d2k1.jpg

  37. Day 1#619

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    Completed oh, lol i thought that said 16 minutes instead...

    oh, lol

    i thought that said 16 minutes instead of 16 hours

    calming down now
  38. Day 1#618

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    65,885

    Completed this last bit is all correct fyi

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#599)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#509)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicitous Weasel (#505)
    @Tammy My read on DJ is because I feel like they're being very... unrehearsed. Natural. Pure.
    Chuck had a good entrance, and has throughout the day come off to me as, like... self-centered town. Like when he thought I was shading him when I was talking about people scumreading me for busywork... I also like where his head is when he made p#304 about Raja.

    And no, I don't think I've ever seen scum Sloth. My only memory of playing with sloth was one where he was town and tunneled me relentlessly.

    @Bur Yes, people do start as town but the longer they aren't acting town in game, the less town they become. I start them at town, sure but they don't necessarily stay there.

    I don't know what Phraze is doing.

    @Michelle I vaguely recall having trouble getting sloth to answer my questions when he was tunneling me. He and I didn't get along that game IIRC.

    Also, I don't think Sloth & Sprout would avoid voting each other because they're RL friends. I believe they care more about game integrity than that.
    Can you please expand on DJs pure posts and tell me if a player without reads progression and who is posting games theories who are not showed in their play can be called pure

    Sprout litterally said they will not vote sloth because RL friendship, if I understood wrong their post, please help. (it's enough to read the last posts of their Iso)

    Please link the game where sloth tunneled you like that. Also if you are killjoy you played with scum Sloth in the game i linked above so please help your memory with some brain food
    @Duplicitous Weasel please answer at the bolded and convince me your bad memory is not AI


    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#558)
    gonna focus mainly on Michelle, Raja, and sloth here - with the way things have been going i think those are the only options that might realistically get us a chop

    What usefulness has such a narrow focus? If sloth is scum i doubt Raja is, if sloth is town Raja's scum equity rises, but what about other players?

    there's also the fact that, while I will have more time tomorrow, i may not be here for EoD

    ---

    Michelle i know has been putting in some work lately

    i'm still not planning to let DJ off the hook, and i've already stated my rising opinions of Michelle so P#430 is a successful pocket

    P#431, wanna hold off on hopping in people's mentions until i'm fully up to speed but i wanna NTS specifics of why others (esp. my townreads) took the positions on Michelle v. sloth that they did. i'm not gonna take the cowards way out and say "wE gOtTa rEsOlvE tHiS" but at the same time it's a bit weird that they would be going this hard and not finding each other if they're both town

    P#433 is ok i guess

    ---

    i felt the urge to fact-check P#435, unfortunately it mostly tracks. the thing is nobody knows $%#! in a mafia game b/c everything is made up bull$%#!. it's a role playing game. perhaps with deadline approaching this would be a more understandable position, but Michelle was talking about an earlier stage in the day, so this emphasis on ironclad ~knowledge~ seems off.

    @DJ Eternal
    i'll give you the first two points of P#439, but re:Michelle either the two posts you linked there explain exactly jack $%#! or i'm a dumb$%#! who simply doesn't get it. assume the latter, and try to walk me through this "defensiveness and forum capabilities" case against shelly here.

    ---

    ugh, reading sloth's P#441 is GRATING. it's like he's trying to get to the minimum word/page count on a school essay. the first bit is such a molehill-made-mountain too (by his own admission!) in my experience this is often a scum tactic, and i'm trying not to jump the gun and immediately peace out with a vote on him like the lazy bastich i am but GODDAMN is it hard.


    anyway, when he finally gets to the point, he points out the P#154/P#194 interaction with Michelle, claiming that she exclusively focus on his potential suspicion of her and nothing else. and that's...pretty plausible, actually. right now i CBA to dig for specific sequelae to this interaction - one could argue that she could've been requesting clarification on sloth's positions in general, but the choice of bolding seems to advantage sloth's side of the story.
    I asked for complete thoughts in P#194, he in P#231 said my idea is ridiculous (could he say otherwise?) also said my question is the wrong one to ask, like I need a lecture regarding how to play mafia, and said I am scum because I only asked about me, ignoring the rest of his post.

    The thing is I only know my own alignament and that means I can judge the others by the way they are talking about me faster than analyzing their thoughts about the others. It's normal to focus on myself. So this is not scum indicative.

    Another sentence in that post says
    Quote Originally Posted by sloth
    Meaning your vote is based on factors that would remain the same regardless of my either alignment? Or?
    and I consider that a bad faith question.
    The questions about Schweppes are also put in a way that show for me the intent to push rather than solve

    I answered in P#233 and he answered in 234, and started the strong push on P#289.
    I pointed out in P#295 that his stance
    Quote Originally Posted by sloth
    Yep, I'd definitely join a Michelle wagon. She's one of those I think has the higher potential to flip as scum upon yeet.

    is scummy, he in P#301 said he is not in a hurry to move vote because day is long, and I answered at that in P#337 that he doesn't have a real intent to solve me, because imo no vote means no reaction, no reaction means no content, hence no solve.
    P#359 he has in irritated tone because I stepped on his toes with my accusation (why would town have this reactions?) and anything he said is town indicative fmpov, and in the next post he finally voted me, the player he said in recent posts he thought I am scum since my first post. Took him a while to say this.

    however, this section segues nicely into another reason i'm sour on this post. it's sloth's overexplaining of his play as if its all part of some super cool master plan...and in this case, they explanation doesn't quite fit. he claims to have made "4 potentially incendiary statements" in his aforementioned post, in which two of the statements are "i'm waiting to hear more from <then-inactive-players>" and "leaving Gira/KJ alone for now". wow, such edgy, very controversial.

    anyway, we get a bit more context in his revue of Michelle's P#205. i feel like this post is a bit mischaracterized. nothing in it comes across as manic or desperate FMPOV. i don't think shelly's entrance was particularly strong either, and the whole post reads to me as addressing sloth's suspicion specifically. as for the meta re:him being scum, i'm completely OOTL. maybe if someone in the know chimes in on this point later i will know whether to trust/distrust it. but failing that, it reads as overexcited tunneling.

    The P#212 response is actually pretty good, i figure. you could argue that given Schweppes was talking about voting /sloth/ here, this is just consistency in raising-the-bar efforts from Michelle, but given how Schweppes characterized this /potential/ (not actual) vote, it does seem rather OTT.

    i think the next posts between her and Schweppes are totally fine actually. if you actually click through to the post and look at the sub-quotes it comes across as her acknowledging the background that he provides, while admonishing him based on the fact that this is a very different type of game and the logic might not carry over.

    the P#232 response however, i can't really poke holes in. even if she meant something like "i'm not totally caught up yet", it does speak to her focus being strangely selective. not that it can't /still/ be overexcited tunneling, as sloth's closing statement alludes to, but a tunnel on scum is a good tunnel.

    not gonna read too much into the Raja stuff, it;s not really game related

    also not sold on the P#295-P#296 thing. 295 makes sense in context and 296 responds to a post that's /literally/ right above her. i don't see how that's inconsistent or a response to "pressure"

    @sloth: you have the wrong post links when you refer to P#237 and P#239 right after the above section, so i can't adress these properly rn

    moving on to your P#394 response. I'd say "I become more sure of sloth with every post" is a pretty strong statement of alignment, but on reread, that intro /is/ really off. especially "i need to see what everyone else thinks" right before, when at this level of certainty any townie really should be trying to convince, not consult. this /might/ be a stylistic issue, and i will not elaborate on my own thing here for reasons that should be fairly obvious. but suffice it to say the lack of follow up makes me broadly trust your take on this.

    i've already sung my own praises of P#436 and - oh, is that some convergence i see? if the current vote roster falls apart i promise to CFD Mister DJ with you! but srsly, i feel like there is a town explanation; knowing that one is part of an oxygen-sucking thunderdome and wanting to broaden the window of discussion in hopes of being more productive. i know that doesn't necessarily mean you're scum either, of course.

    in conclusion: i may be undergoing some much needed character development in learning to read styles i don't like, like sloth's! i'm still a bit conflicted as to which of this pair i'll actually vote should it come down to that. Maybe I lean Michelle now because of greater thoroughness of this? but i still dunno whether anything in this conflict is A Big Deal like the participants seem to think it is. hopefully the rest of the thread helps!

    (splitting this up for manageability)
    Fixed the links to all posts to be readable

    I also have questions/ideas inside the quote in bolded colored, but I think is enough about this. I felt the need to describe how my interaction with sloth went, partially for me to check if we are not townies talking past each other.
    Waiting for ideas from everyone else here because I don't see how sloth can be villager.

    @U SUX please reformulate the conclusion because I don't get it, maybe is playstyle but many sentences are ambiguous for me.


    Also tell me if Google is right here:
    OOTL = out of the loop ?
    OTT = over-the-top ?
    CBA = can't be arsed ?
    NTS = Note to Self ?
    this last bit is all correct fyi
  39. Day 1#616

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
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    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed oh, $%#!ing timezones i was hoping to get here...

    oh, $%#!ing timezones

    i was hoping to get here with an hour more to spare
  40. Day 1#560

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed getting far too tired to continue properly ...

    getting far too tired to continue properly

    from a skim ahead, nothing stands out which promises a solution.

    i will most likely be able to continue a full read at mid-day/early afternoon but by then i fear the thread will have swelled to epic proportions so i'm prob just gonna wing it.

    Rn i feel the top votes are in order of preference: Raja, sloth, Michelle (sloth having a very narrow advnatage)

    also up to bumrush DJ ,dseesil or Phraze if you are

    g'night
  41. Day 1#559

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
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    65,885

    Completed now that Tammy brings it up, Raja's posts have...

    now that Tammy brings it up, Raja's posts have been a bit shallow. they've been oddly absent for much of this whole kerfuffle too, iirc

    ---

    Axel not reading sloth's case at all 445 and yet arriving at a similar-but-branching point seems to strengthen said point

    ---

    Phraze and Sprout crossvote the wagons, Phraze without any sort of justification whatsoever. lovely.

    ---

    452 this broadening of focus seems a bit more fruitful than Michelle's, going in several different directions with several different people.

    what first jumps out as possibly disagreeable here is the response to Gira. I supposed the dogged insistence on him being wrong can be broadly attributed to him thinking he's struck scummy gold in Michelle, but the game Gira references is not that old, "a high hit rate" means it's been broadly applicable and doesn't need to be a "point-for-point" match as you say. I don't think Raja's general posting rate tracks with the second item of analysis and it's admitted that Gira does make sense in the third.

    also, lol, did Phraze really naked vote sloth twice

    ---

    "I'm not anti-town for not wanting to repeat myself, am I?"

    no, not necessarily. but apparently most people aren't jumping on the Sprout train.

    and even with the mistaken identity about the "blendy" comment, 457 makes good points

    ---

    461 on the other hand seems to warrant investigation. from what i can see through ISOs, Sprout's only pointed suspicions seems to be against DJ, Phraze, and maybe Michelle. There's /bupkis/ on them from Phraze, and Michelle presses Sprout over sloth a couple of times, but never dips below null on them. So point #3 seems like a total $%#!-pull, and #4 is highly debatable. Never mind the post that immediately follows, 463 is entirely understandable IMO

    ---

    @UpsideDownChuck I just wanna chat with you again before Day ends b/c i have a crush on trust you

    464 is where you explain your flip off of Dweezil. while i can understand the reasoning, esp. with regard to avoiding tell-lock and falling on meta from those you're familiar with, i'd like to humbly request a little more clarity here. Was I not committing to him being a wolf? i still think his early targeting smacked of opportunism (watch particularly Gira->me progression). not to mention his drastic dropoff in activity late in the day, and never following up on his claimed suspicion of me.

    also still not sold on sloth being the most obvtown obvtown that ever obvtowned, clearly, but if you know him better than me, i might be willing to follow you. i do concur on both Axel and Phraze here and would definitely hop on Phraze with you, fyi.

    ---

    and now we get to a sweet purple drank flavored Michelle wall @466. not the most accomodating to read but it sure looks pretty.

    so the first response is to Axelrod, and /within/ the thin quoted line, i really don't find anything off. it's a measured consistent response that fits with what i've observed before. what /does/ bug me a little is what's outside - michelle accusing Axel of being locked into the scum!Michelle world and reading stuff in bad faith. i don't know enough about her to know if this is just how she responds to the current level of vote pressure, but it does come off as a pretty big twist in tone

    second Axel response: first item fits exactly with what i've previously surmised observed, and since this is the past, she's unlikely to be bullshitting. Michelle absolutely came across as someone who was willing to raise the bar of town participation so wolves would have a harder time coasting. The rest is mostly fine, it does start getting repetitive and one-linely halfway through tho.

    i want to say a big thing that keeps me from getting to scum on Michelle is how direct she is. i may have an obvious bias in that regard, but it feels like sloth feels the need to dress up his big effort posts with a bunch of extra words and linguistic flourishes while Michelle just gets right down to business and says her points right away.

    ---

    one thing i feel about this whole thing in general is that both Michelle and sloth have accused each other of trying to monopolize their attention, when neither side of that seems to hold water. both of them have their moments of narrowness and broadness and i don't think trying to make quantitative comparisons between the two really helps in this situation

    ---

    469, it's a feel thing, is it? i really need to know a player and/or playerbase to start navigating by feel, so this might be our disconnect in a shellnut

    ---

    470...ugh. if the sloth/@Michelle casewall keeps getting snowballed like this, i'm putting my foot down and saying this is the last instance i will review in full, because i have a finite time on this earth and i wanna get to the end of this thread during it.

    first item, i think sloth's focus here is narrow because you in turn were focused on Tammy, and sloth's thing about the MTG players is a potentially valid starting point now that. that said, there's a distinct possibility you might be right about the TMI, b/c in retrospect, "Tammy/Michelle possible w/w" seems like an obvious first step for any townie analysis to me.

    second and third items make sense on the surface but i still wonder why you hadn't read up at that point, unless this is related to your illness. it does kinda look like you just popped in in response to the suspicion.

    fourth item is okay

    fifth item is a bit confusing and non-sequitur.

    sixth item kinda contradicts your fourth. there are several instances where a townie might not have anything to say or they are genuinely waiting on an answer or reaction.

    after that it seems to be mostly about differences in style/perspective until we get to the clarification/mention thinger. not privy to the relevant information here, but from sloth corroborating earlier, it would seem you has legitimate and recent experience of sloth's scum game.

    205 response, there are points we do concur on (the Bur/entrance things), but mostly it seems to be witty NAI repartees

    212 response, i'm gonna hard disagree on the "authority" part here. people seek out multiple perspectives for a reason. even if by some miracle you got a perfect townbloc, there's no guarantee they have a path to actually getting the scum out...but the more perspectives you include, the better chance they have of finding one. savvy?

    big agree on the DJ point though. i know, tangents.

    231 smells strongly of culture/style clash

    after that we have a bunch of one-liners that track okay, i guess, when they're not just "nuh-uh" (which i'd give major scumpoints in a vacuum for, but in context, only minor ones here)

    again, disregarding the forum software assistance BS, i think it's dumb that ppl keep bringing it up

    and the rest is mostly stuff that i've gone over before (well, after, temporally speaking).

    it's obviously not as detailed as sloth's. does it need to be? i'm not sure. obviously she has less to say. maybe she's less complicated a player. none of this SCREAMS Michelle=scum. it merely whispers it.

    ---

    472 on the other hand is a pretty good post with no fat or filler. the only thing really new about it is item 2, though. idk.

    ---

    473 i feel you Axel.

    ---

    at this point i'm feeling like i just wanna divest from this whole conflict and vote Raja. his 478 leaves me only mildly dissuaded. about the only solid stance he takes here is on Michelle.

    ---

    nothing moves me on Bur's 480, still the null-slight-town oscillator i remember. so it'll take some work to get me to where you're going @482, @Axelrod

    ---
  42. Day 1#558

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed gonna focus mainly on Michelle, Raja, and sloth...

    gonna focus mainly on Michelle, Raja, and sloth here - with the way things have been going i think those are the only options that might realistically get us a chop

    there's also the fact that, while I will have more time tomorrow, i may not be here for EoD

    ---

    Michelle i know has been putting in some work lately

    i'm still not planning to let DJ off the hook, and i've already stated my rising opinions of Michelle so 430 is a successful pocket

    431, wanna hold off on hopping in people's mentions until i'm fully up to speed but i wanna NTS specifics of why others (esp. my townreads) took the positions on Michelle v. sloth that they did. i'm not gonna take the cowards way out and say "wE gOtTa rEsOlvE tHiS" but at the same time it's a bit weird that they would be going this hard and not finding each other if they're both town

    433 is ok i guess

    ---

    i felt the urge to fact-check 435, unfortunately it mostly tracks. the thing is nobody knows $%#! in a mafia game b/c everything is made up bull$%#!. it's a role playing game. perhaps with deadline approaching this would be a more understandable position, but Michelle was talking about an earlier stage in the day, so this emphasis on ironclad ~knowledge~ seems off.

    @DJ Eternal
    i'll give you the first two points of 439, but re:Michelle either the two posts you linked there explain exactly jack $%#! or i'm a dumb$%#! who simply doesn't get it. assume the latter, and try to walk me through this "defensiveness and forum capabilities" case against shelly here.

    ---

    ugh, reading sloth's 441 is GRATING. it's like he's trying to get to the minimum word/page count on a school essay. the first bit is such a molehill-made-mountain too (by his own admission!) in my experience this is often a scum tactic, and i'm trying not to jump the gun and immediately peace out with a vote on him like the lazy bastich i am but GODDAMN is it hard.

    anyway, when he finally gets to the point, he points out the 154/194 interaction with Michelle, claiming that she exclusively focus on his potential suspicion of her and nothing else. and that's...pretty plausible, actually. right now i CBA to dig for specific sequelae to this interaction - one could argue that she could've been requesting clarification on sloth's positions in general, but the choice of bolding seems to advantage sloth's side of the story.

    however, this section segues nicely into another reason i'm sour on this post. it's sloth's overexplaining of his play as if its all part of some super cool master plan...and in this case, they explanation doesn't quite fit. he claims to have made "4 potentially incendiary statements" in his aforementioned post, in which two of the statements are "i'm waiting to hear more from <then-inactive-players>" and "leaving Gira/KJ alone for now". wow, such edgy, very controversial.

    anyway, we get a bit more context in his revue of Michelle's 205. i feel like this post is a bit mischaracterized. nothing in it comes across as manic or desperate FMPOV. i don't think shelly's entrance was particularly strong either, and the whole post reads to me as addressing sloth's suspicion specifically. as for the meta re:him being scum, i'm completely OOTL. maybe if someone in the know chimes in on this point later i will know whether to trust/distrust it. but failing that, it reads as overexcited tunneling.

    The 212 response is actually pretty good, i figure. you could argue that given Schweppes was talking about voting /sloth/ here, this is just consistency in raising-the-bar efforts from Michelle, but given how Schweppes characterized this /potential/ (not actual) vote, it does seem rather OTT.

    i think the next posts between her and Schweppes are totally fine actually. if you actually click through to the post and look at the sub-quotes it comes across as her acknowledging the background that he provides, while admonishing him based on the fact that this is a very different type of game and the logic might not carry over.

    the #232 response however, i can't really poke holes in. even if she meant something like "i'm not totally caught up yet", it does speak to her focus being strangely selective. not that it can't /still/ be overexcited tunneling, as sloth's closing statement alludes to, but a tunnel on scum is a good tunnel.

    not gonna read too much into the Raja stuff, it;s not really game related

    also not sold on the 295-296 thing. 295 makes sense in context and 296 responds to a post that's /literally/ right above her. i don't see how that's inconsistent or a response to "pressure"

    @sloth: you have the wrong post links when you refer to 237 and 239 right after the above section, so i can't adress these properly rn

    moving on to your 394 response. I'd say "I become more sure of sloth with every post" is a pretty strong statement of alignment, but on reread, that intro /is/ really off. especially "i need to see what everyone else thinks" right before, when at this level of certainty any townie really should be trying to convince, not consult. this /might/ be a stylistic issue, and i will not elaborate on my own thing here for reasons that should be fairly obvious. but suffice it to say the lack of follow up makes me broadly trust your take on this.

    i've already sung my own praises of 436 and - oh, is that some convergence i see? if the current vote roster falls apart i promise to CFD Mister DJ with you! but srsly, i feel like there is a town explanation; knowing that one is part of an oxygen-sucking thunderdome and wanting to broaden the window of discussion in hopes of being more productive. i know that doesn't necessarily mean you're scum either, of course.

    in conclusion: i may be undergoing some much needed character development in learning to read styles i don't like, like sloth's! i'm still a bit conflicted as to which of this pair i'll actually vote should it come down to that. Maybe I lean Michelle now because of greater thoroughness of this? but i still dunno whether anything in this conflict is A Big Deal like the participants seem to think it is. hopefully the rest of the thread helps!

    (splitting this up for manageability)
  43. Day 1#555

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed because i'm a pathetic pile of esquivalience in...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gira (#539)
    @U SUX why are you voting duplicitous weasel
    because i'm a pathetic pile of esquivalience in the shape of a man

    ##Unvote Duplicitous Weasel

    new stuff in progress
  44. Day 1#524

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed well now that I have the time to request a VC i...

    well now that I have the time to request a VC i see that Rajas is also in the running.

    FMPOV none of these options are good. thank $%#! there's another IRL day to run thru it

    Like to see Gotta and Schweppes take on Raja, as well as what flipped Chuck onto Michelle

    I get out around 10:30 utc-6 Tonite. Until then i wouldn't expect much but surface level current events from me
  45. Day 1#522

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed Sorry guys, i PTFO'd. Had to put in overtime on...

    Sorry guys, i PTFO'd. Had to put in overtime on an already brutal Saturday

    don't know how busy today will be but I did bring my charger this time

    AFAICT it's become a Michelle/sloth thunderstone, right?
  46. Day 1#428

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed hmm. i thought it might be something else, i...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#394)
    A villager can only show what is weird/bad/not villagery in someone posts.
    I am a team player, I am not the type of town leader who says "trust me folks I am always right"

    I need to see what everyone else thinks about what I noticed

    About how sure I am, I became more sure with every post sloth added.
    It's not only how he handles my slot, it's about many other players.
    Not risking clear reads amd giving possibilities to change read is a great way to escape further mischop accusations.
    Look at the timing of his vote after I mentioned he is not voting me on purpose, and without trying to sort me but wanting a wagon on me calling others to vote.
    There are players who are just putting things on many POVs and maybe sloth tries to copy his town game here but the things I found are wolfy

    You know him better than me, did he post anything to make you think he is town? Please share in this case.
    hmm.

    i thought it might be something else, i guess.

    and i actually have not played with sloth before (to my knowledge).

    Quote Originally Posted by sloth (#400)
    @U SUX you suck. But there. Never ask me to do this again.
    i mean, i DID come to ruin your gameplay

    but the last point is understandable, if a bit weird. i know that standoffish doesn't necessarily = scum, my general impression at the time was simply that Michelle was kicking it into high gear trying to find a good wagon, adn her casework was a good starting point but didn't point directly towards scum.

    ---

    whoops, look at the time
    might take a more detailed look at all this late night, after my real job
  47. Day 1#390

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed forgot to finish a sentence in my reply to Tam...

    and with the lack of daytalk, it's a bit more plausible that scum might trip up like that.
    forgot to finish a sentence in my reply to Tam oops

    i'm gonna be working on some stuff that's "too hot for MU" in a while, but before I do:

    how sure are you of sloth scum, Michelle?

    would you bet the farm on it?

    or are you simply really really sure?
  48. Day 1#389

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed ouch. i've been through this process thrice and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phraze (#378)
    Fun to see me be the talk of the day.

    Trying to migrate phones and remember my pw. On old one ATM.
    ouch. i've been through this process thrice and its been an unmitigated disaster every time. my sympathies

    -

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#379)
    As you observed already the heart emoji has a bug and is deleting everything after it when posting.
    Use if you need to pocket someone.
    lol, noted. apparently mentions can also delete brackets from adjacent quote tags...for some stupid $%#!-reason.

    anyway, the rest of this post is pretty damn good. the second point sticks out to me the most, the fifth and ninth to a lesser extent. i've called some of this out in a previous post and i am allowing for the possibility of intense culture/style clash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sprout (#383)
    Quote Originally Posted by USUX
    i've terminally $%#!ed up the quoting in this post as well so I will just say i do like your comeback post @Sprout
    i understand how you might have difficulty reading my machinegun walls especially if you're new, so like feel free to ask for clarification on anything
    actively trying to make my posts less eyebleed-y rn, hope that helps
    the post by post commentary is hard for me to follow, too much info spread out for me to keep track of. i do better with summaries that point out key things. i might try to go through them again, i was tired and cranky before.
    i'd like to know what makes you think DW is a wolf.
    yeah i understand all that. the problem is that my way of doing brief summaries tends to piss people off and/pr make them assume i'm low-effort scum. so over time i've adopted the PbP-in-brief strategy, at least early game

    since you asked though, my DW read basically boils down to
    1) how unnatural the leap to DJ's defense + Gira aggro came across
    2) the meandering wishy-washy nature of many, many items in his posts

    -

    re:Tammy

    yeah, i think i'm just kind of on the other side of this coin currently.

    sloppy isn't necessarily scum, but sloppy isn't town either. and with the lack of daytalk.

    i'm actually liking Michelle's recent posts, she's really shifting to high gear and trending townwards in my view. as for Axel, ehh, he's about on. some pointed efforts here and there, some baseline town signs in my book but nothing really special, y'know? hovering around the borderlands between town and null.

    -

    reweezil

    yeah, it was a one-liner basically saying "who believes this sux bozo is town lol" while not voting for me, so...okay? you are also not elaborating on your apparent suspicion of me, which i would think would be a pressing concern for someone who's actually town and has a good hunch in this gamestate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dweezil
    d&d
    oh.

    if this is a regular occurence, do yourself a favor and get yourself a skew d4 from The Dice Lab. it's more readable, it's not a footstabber, and you can actually pick it up.
  49. Day 1#377

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed real recognize real

    Quote Originally Posted by Axelrod (#374)
    USux has successfully wall-posted me into an unvote. That much work deserves respect!
    real recognize real

    but seriously, i've linked a previous towngame in one of the aforementioned walls (where i played pretty much exactly like this before getting run over by the scumdozer D1) and now i shall link my only scumgame on the site (in which i remember playing pretty differently, but my memory sucks so w/e). hopefully these better inform people's choices.

    ----

    LIST IN ROUGH TOWN TO SCUM ORDER
    Chuck
    Tammy
    Gira
    Bur
    Axel (got it memorized?)
    sodie-pop
    sloth
    Michelle
    Sprout
    Raja
    Daddy DJ
    Phraze
    Dweezil

    and in my estimation the silence from both DW and Phraze is deafening

    ##Vote Duplicitous Weasel

    going with my gut for now.
  50. Day 1#376

    Thread: Covenant of Darkness

    by U SUX
    Replies
    2,427
    Views
    65,885

    Completed multiquote is being an idiot poopface as usual,...

    multiquote is being an idiot poopface as usual, disregard duplicate quotes before DJ on last post

    -

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeDorkSlipeur (#352)
    Mod note: Due to a bug, I cannot raise the postcap at the moment.

    This means players who have reached the postcap will not be able to post again until... whenever this is fixed (soon I hope).

    If it takes a while before the postcap is raised again, I will compensate some way or another.
    whoops, maybe it's not such a good idea to chase the postcap

    -

    i've terminally $%#!ed up the quoting in this post as well so I will just say i do like your comeback post @Sprout
    i understand how you might have difficulty reading my machinegun walls especially if you're new, so like feel free to ask for clarification on anything
    actively trying to make my posts less eyebleed-y rn, hope that helps

    -

    i will respond to sloth in a fetching pink

    Quote Originally Posted by sloth (#359)
    <snippity snap>

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy (#317)
    Sloth - I don't think you answered why you think Bur is scum.
    That's by design.
    I don't feel a sense of urgency in trying to convince anyone that Bur is probable scum on D1, especially with other players around that are both potentially more likely and more present in the game, meaning that they can be read by me and others better.

    To be frank, I don't see the point of telling people the details of what I'm thinking immediately, but I do let you know who I'm looking at.
    I think Bur, Michelle, and some others might be scum. You can hold me accountable to that.
    Why do I think that? Don't want to say yet - why does it matter?
    If I explain, I'm giving them a correction course that they can try to address and convince me they're innocent - which really only benefits scum. Town players don't need a correction course, they can just keep being townie and eventually that'll shine through.
    Think of it like birdwatching.

    ahh, finally showing some of your hand here. i guess i can see it working out, but i personally feel like its a bit misapplied during a no-plurality D1, as any collected dirt files can easily get lost in the EoD smoke.

    Hell, by not directly responding to Michelle and simply watching what she does, she'd gotten more likely as a scum player than me.
    I think KJ's just barely rand<town, DJ's almost definitely town, you're being Tammy, I'm curious about Chuck (I think he's pretty much like GJ), U SUX's a bit HRish but not sure if that means they're scum or that they just legitimately think they're analyzing (leaning towards the latter...?),

    i've already forgotten what HRish is, if i ever knew. but yeah, this is how i get my ducks in a row. due to my style it might come across as more shallow than it is

    Gira became my strongest townread as a result of me not sharing my thoughts: The reason I don't do it is because if I see other players drawing the same conclusions I've drawn but not voiced, it means that they're likely coming from a town mindset and they were definitely not just sheeping me because, again, they had nothing to sheep. 9 times out of 10 this game, Gira's done that.

    i'm with you on Gira being town. my problem with this approach is that, eventually, there needs to be some sort of voiced suspicion, some sort of anchor that other townies can use to voice their own reasons/suspicions (even if contrasting) and enrich the perspective of the game. if you feel that other players were providing enough of this, though, i guess i could get behind it more

    Axel is the biggest red flag in this game.

    biggest red flag, but not among your topscum? explain.

    <snappity snop>

    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#332)
    @sloth re:231, what, you expected a dissertation from me? sorry, not happening, especially not D1 of any game. i do my best to give positions + reasons for those positions in the few words i write. given that i haven't started off on a good foot here i wouldn't be surprised if i've been caught lacking at a few points, but like, actually point out stuff you want me to elaborate on and then we can start bullshittin' for real.
    er. What? I didn't ask anything from you, hell all I said was that your post was lukewarm. Literally.
    I don't really want you to elaborate on anything you've posted, none of it was noteworthy to me. Now that you have caught up, I want you to actually analyze players and give actual arguments on why you think they are the alignment you think.
    Not saying the way you are doing things is wrong, far from it, instead I just want to know what you think with the benefit of having had a few hours to absorb all information while actually being up to date.

    lukewarm is better than the cold shoulder.
    having a bit of a difficult time believing that nothing i posted was noteworthy to you - there is analysis in them thar hills posts, but are you actually looking for it?
    maybe my machinegun walls were so grating to you that you tuned most of it out, and that's fine...but like, at least Sprout had the decency to admit that


    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#332)
    speakin' of bullshittin'...not really feeling the rest of that post. Again, very padded with banter and he has more digital ink and sharpened wit to spend on the person who might be sussing him (Michelle) than everyone else combined, apparently. NAGL (not gonna use the d-word out of respect)
    lol. Imagine the gal it takes to say that I'm the one giving undue focus to the person that immediately voted me after I pointed to them as scum without voting them.
    In addition, none of what I called out Michelle on was related to her voting me, it was all based on her play. And all of it was valid - and if you're going to try to say it's not, then you need to explain why.
    What's NAGL? I'm not familiar.

    not a good look. <- the answer to the last question
    i think i viewed the Michelle vote as more independent and less reflexive as you seem to...i may need to revisit things as my memory sucks. the hyperfocus issue might be a stylistic one more than anything


    Quote Originally Posted by U SUX (#332)
    seriously though, i've always had a vaguely similar mindset but experience has taught me that there's such a thing as giving too little $%#!s
    I care exactly as much as I need to at this point. People assume that you have to hit the ground rolling - why? You'll do it for me. I'm happy just observing at first.

    this might be an answer to my playstyle query above. fairy nuff.

    Also, down with the bad emoji servers, yes.

    let's just start the whole internet over with only the good parts of every era, tbh

    <scoopity poop>
    -

    out of characters apparently? do BBTags count?
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Tailor

The Tailor may each night tailor a player, causing that player to be viewed as the opposite of their true alignment if investigated by any Cop abilities on that same night.