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  1. #168

    Thread: Public Moderation Log

    by dyachei
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    Sticky: WWH/annulus's ban has been reversed due to...

    WWH/annulus's ban has been reversed due to reasonable doubt that the discord user who spammed racial slurs was in fact the same person.
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    +1 postpone Pizza you already know I don't...

    +1 postpone

    Pizza you already know I don't want you to do anything that'll cause you to not have fun with this. I'll be around anytime you want to run this. I hope you'll take the time you need to with sooh and the kiddos.
  3. #167

    Thread: Public Moderation Log

    by dyachei
    Replies
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    Sticky: Annulus (and Whitewater hysteria, which was an...

    Annulus (and Whitewater hysteria, which was an alt) was permanently banned today for spamming the discord with racial slurs
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    Sticky: Completed Not really a game I want to relive

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#10264)
    i know this just ended but we must have a more casual reunion game soon

    mark your calendars for whatever that unspecified time is. i don’t want this yo be one that we say will happen and never does. i will make it happen
    Not really a game I want to relive
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    Sticky: Completed gg arete! Well played

    gg arete! Well played
  6. #110

    Thread: Hydra Event 2020!

    by dyachei
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    Sticky: confirming I'm in with hally

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#30)
    i’m hydraing with these people assuming they’re all still down:

    - @dyachei (iamnotbrad): representing MU i guess
    - @staypositivefriend (positively): idk who we’re representing? maybe the syndicate
    - @Dyslexicon (Dazzly): representing PerC

    h y p e
    confirming I'm in with hally
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    Sticky: Completed did you win?

    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardSon (#9874)
    Congrats to the town! And to all of you for making it to the Finale!
    did you win?
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    Sticky: probably ought to include dobby as well since his...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#314)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#311)
    I nominate Dyslexicon, staypositivefriend, and Arete collectively for Best Fake Claim for their fake JoaT claims in the Champs Finale.

    Together they provided ample cover for the real JoaT (Master Radishes) to work in secret every night until he could clear enough players to secure the win.
    Third. As the actual JOAT, I can say their work was brilliant and saved me from notice for three straight Nights.

    Phighter should probably be included in this though; even if his claim was less believable, he added to the chaos of EoD3 that kept the wolf's head spinning any direction but me.
    probably ought to include dobby as well since his fake softs were part of the reason that the wolf team killed him n1
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    Sticky: Completed Thingyman I'm also willing to. I'll also defer to...

    @Thingyman I'm also willing to. I'll also defer to people who havent been on the podcast before
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    Sticky: Completed if it's been released i see no problem with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#9824)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9821)
    I don't see any issue with talking about wolf chats. Some people like to use those for meta or to see how you process the game as a wolf.
    I agree about talking, but not with quoting.
    if it's been released i see no problem with quoting from them, either
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    Sticky: Completed As enjoyable as this game was, there really were...

    As enjoyable as this game was, there really were cliques that if you weren't in, you were at a disadvantage. I could really only get a few people to talk to me regularly. It made it especially difficult to get into the game but it made the early game experience for me terrible. Once I was in the POE I was ignored for several days (likely because I was a wolf read) and this probably contributed to me having shep as a wolf from d3 and nobody being willing to listen or understand me until d6 when I was mechanically cleared. One of the worst feelings in the world is having a logical wolf read on someone and to be repeatedly dismissed as the case being too emotional or that you were too emotional. I really felt very isolated this game and continued to try and reach out to people who were willing to talk to me (thanks to arete and sloonei in particular)

    I was already dealing with a lot and that took me to a place where I was sad/disappointed/angry every time I entered the thread and you could probably tell that by my post counts. I should have subbed out instead of lashing out a couple times here and for that I'm sorry.

    I do hope, however, that in future games, even when you have someone in the poe, you actually talk to them and get their thoughts. If they're a wolf, you get spew. If they're a villager, sometimes you gain a new perspective that can help solve the game.
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    Sticky: Completed I don't see any issue with talking about wolf...

    I don't see any issue with talking about wolf chats. Some people like to use those for meta or to see how you process the game as a wolf.
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    Sticky: Completed lol, so i was correct on the emotional thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9678)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9672)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#9587)
    HOLY $%#! SHEPPARD WAS A WOLF

    I'm sorry for not listening to you, Dya
    you were fine, arete. thanks for making the remaining town think about people who could be wolves outside of me

    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#9595)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9586)
    Sheppard holy $%#! man I was so pocketed. GOAT.
    Hell, I had it figured for like five minutes my last phase and then I said nah and talked myself out of it!

    only dya had it firm.
    i think from d3 on i had him as a wolf. I just couldn't get people to listen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9597)
    YAY!!!!!!!

    IN DYA WE TRUST! Awesome confidence @dyachei! I leaned on you!

    Awesome play also, @Sheppard, you're really a force!

    All the love to this whole town! What a wild ride! I'm so happy we made in in the end, even if it was much more difficult than first anticipated!

    I'll never doubt an early gut read on Jack ever again lol!

    Omg, I'm happy about this!
    thanks for believing in me dizzy!


    I told you guys I'm competent town

    really it was a pleasure to play with you all
    Excellent call.

    The conversation I wanted to have in post game with you was:

    Well done.
    lol, so i was correct on the emotional thing being a dismissal of my case then

    it was funny because you kept saying it when i was in a super logical mood
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    Sticky: Completed you were fine, arete. thanks for making the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#9587)
    HOLY $%#! SHEPPARD WAS A WOLF

    I'm sorry for not listening to you, Dya
    you were fine, arete. thanks for making the remaining town think about people who could be wolves outside of me

    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#9595)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9586)
    Sheppard holy $%#! man I was so pocketed. GOAT.
    Hell, I had it figured for like five minutes my last phase and then I said nah and talked myself out of it!

    only dya had it firm.
    i think from d3 on i had him as a wolf. I just couldn't get people to listen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9597)
    YAY!!!!!!!

    IN DYA WE TRUST! Awesome confidence @dyachei! I leaned on you!

    Awesome play also, @Sheppard, you're really a force!

    All the love to this whole town! What a wild ride! I'm so happy we made in in the end, even if it was much more difficult than first anticipated!

    I'll never doubt an early gut read on Jack ever again lol!

    Omg, I'm happy about this!
    thanks for believing in me dizzy!


    I told you guys I'm competent town

    really it was a pleasure to play with you all
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    Sticky: Completed needed to vote because its almost dinner time

    needed to vote because its almost dinner time
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    Sticky: Completed Sheppard

    ##Vote Sheppard
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    Sticky: Completed jacks reaction to phighter when everyone else...

    jacks reaction to phighter when everyone else thought phighter should be the elim (on like d2/3) was good tho
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    Sticky: Completed it does. it means both of them think you're the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9346)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9336)
    I'm here. I think im still leaning the same way
    How would you rank the three of us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9353)
    This is an important question to me that I want answered from each of the three clears:

    @dyachei
    @Dyslexicon
    @Master Radishes

    Neither Jack nor Sheppard has argued that I am the last wolf at all today. They've each settled on the other as their suspect. What does that mean to you, if anything?

    it does. it means both of them think you're the towniest or least good option to mis-eliminate. it has meaning because at random chance 66% of the suspect pool believes 33% of it is clearish

    I rank you like so

    most town

    sloon
    jack
    shep
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    Sticky: Completed I'm here. I think im still leaning the same way

    I'm here. I think im still leaning the same way
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    Sticky: Completed feels that way to me too

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9280)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9279)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9272)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9267)
    they killed spf because she also had a fake joat claim and they thought if dizzy wasnt it then it was her
    But...really? That's it? SPF retracted and her claim wasn't all that believable anyway.

    I bring it up because every other kill seems accountable - Jay was likely a lucky fear kill, Arete was a JOAT shot, Dizzy was an attempted JOAT shot - but SPF and, to some extent, Dobby are the ones that might mean something.

    This is probably not worth exploring with so little time left anyway, just musing out loud.
    improbable, yeah sure. but when the claimed joat didnt die, it's possible. but i dont think i would expect that shot from sloonei
    I agree
    It feels a shot from someone unfamiliar with the nuances of forum mafia power roles and fake claims
    feels that way to me too
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    Sticky: Completed improbable, yeah sure. but when the claimed joat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9272)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9267)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9254)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9182)
    Can I take a(nother) self centred moment just to appreciate that I've been confirmed town since D4, and I'm still not dead, still wrecking my brain over this game, and in worst case, will still be doing that tomorrow for Lylo.

    How did I ever end up here? I should've been resting in piece with Dobby, Jay, Mist, Phighter, SPF and Monkey.
    Actually this reminds me:


    @ all

    Why was SPF killed?

    We assumed 'bad JOAT read' and maybe that's it. But like...the wolf knew Dizzy was targeted and therefore that he was not JOAT, and that down the line he could end up cleared by the real JOAT. Why not go for the double tap? Dizzy had un-claimed so why would the JOAT save him again?


    Basically: was SPF onto someone?

    (@Sloonei you like digging through things.)
    they killed spf because she also had a fake joat claim and they thought if dizzy wasnt it then it was her
    But...really? That's it? SPF retracted and her claim wasn't all that believable anyway.

    I bring it up because every other kill seems accountable - Jay was likely a lucky fear kill, Arete was a JOAT shot, Dizzy was an attempted JOAT shot - but SPF and, to some extent, Dobby are the ones that might mean something.

    This is probably not worth exploring with so little time left anyway, just musing out loud.
    improbable, yeah sure. but when the claimed joat didnt die, it's possible. but i dont think i would expect that shot from sloonei
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    Sticky: Completed they killed spf because she also had a fake joat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9254)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9182)
    Can I take a(nother) self centred moment just to appreciate that I've been confirmed town since D4, and I'm still not dead, still wrecking my brain over this game, and in worst case, will still be doing that tomorrow for Lylo.

    How did I ever end up here? I should've been resting in piece with Dobby, Jay, Mist, Phighter, SPF and Monkey.
    Actually this reminds me:


    @ all

    Why was SPF killed?

    We assumed 'bad JOAT read' and maybe that's it. But like...the wolf knew Dizzy was targeted and therefore that he was not JOAT, and that down the line he could end up cleared by the real JOAT. Why not go for the double tap? Dizzy had un-claimed so why would the JOAT save him again?


    Basically: was SPF onto someone?

    (@Sloonei you like digging through things.)
    they killed spf because she also had a fake joat claim and they thought if dizzy wasnt it then it was her
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    Sticky: Completed the tone thing is how i locked in sloonei d1. as...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9247)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9224)
    Reading Dya's ISO on Sheppard. I think if Sheppard is scum, they've done a great job replicating their town play.
    Definitely. I basically energy/tone-read them D1 based on the instant similarity to their SF2 tone/attitude. He's been doing all the little Shep things I would expect him to do.

    Of course I've never seen him scum. But most players do have at least a little difference in their town and scum games, and often what pings me is if I can't really feel their towniness in D1/D2 even if I can pick things out at a surface-level that suggest they may be - that often is a little subconscious scumread. I didn't get that with Shep at all, and still don't when reading his early posts. He feels right. But maybe he's just one of those players super good at replicating their town tone. And maybe his unfamiliarity with conventional forum play means the things one expects to find don't exist because he's doing things like dunking his partner at the first hint of suspicion on them.

    I don't want Shep to be scum. I've definitely done this before - locking in a player D1 based on meta/tone/solvy attitude, only to see them flip red later - and so I am going to defer to the thread-wide suspicion on this slot. But I'm still going to be taken aback and impressed if he does flip scum.
    the tone thing is how i locked in sloonei d1. as I'm reading his posts again, I'm still convinced he's town.

    i just think the way shep has handled things is wolfier than average. he says things like he town read me, but he immediately found reasons to wolf read me again when consensus didnt follow. these are the types of things that worry me.
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    Sticky: Completed im kind of worried that after we discussed why...

    im kind of worried that after we discussed why the jack case kind of sucked, we then get a sloonei case based on monkey's case. he wasn't considering this at all until now
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    Sticky: Completed it nullifies that part but it brings up why shep...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9228)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9223)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#664)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#661)
    Sloonei: exists. Jumps on bandwagons alot. Gets very defensive at P#473. Need to see gamesolve (see also: Chemist)
    Hi Shep! What bandwagons have I jumped on?
    Also that post you linked to is not a defensive one. That is me going after Phighter as a suspect. That is me gamesolving, one might say. That particular line of suspicion just happens to stem from Phighter's read of me. But I am in no way trying to defend myself there. I got defensive elsewhere.
    this is a really weird post from shep d1. the phighter read was one sloonei came to by questioning and prodding phighter. it's really weird to state he's jumping on bandwagons a lot
    oh, that kinda nullifies the beef I just brought up. Apparently sheppard did say something about that post on Day 1.

    it's still incorrect to interpret it as defensiveness on my part, and i could still interpret his notes as "getting it" more than his in-thread posts suggest. but whatever. strike it from the record.
    it nullifies that part but it brings up why shep had that read of you based on the posts i literally read right before that. you werent jumping on bandwagons, you were pushing on phi for a while
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    Sticky: Completed this is a really weird post from shep d1. the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#664)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#661)
    Sloonei: exists. Jumps on bandwagons alot. Gets very defensive at P#473. Need to see gamesolve (see also: Chemist)
    Hi Shep! What bandwagons have I jumped on?
    Also that post you linked to is not a defensive one. That is me going after Phighter as a suspect. That is me gamesolving, one might say. That particular line of suspicion just happens to stem from Phighter's read of me. But I am in no way trying to defend myself there. I got defensive elsewhere.
    this is a really weird post from shep d1. the phighter read was one sloonei came to by questioning and prodding phighter. it's really weird to state he's jumping on bandwagons a lot
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    Sticky: Completed sloonei does read hally as a villager early in...

    sloonei does read hally as a villager early in 528.
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    Sticky: Completed reading through sloonei. i like their early...

    reading through sloonei. i like their early posting. using a lot of questions but he also follows up on them - specifically on the phighter read and not showing up on a scum list.
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    Sticky: Completed I checked you last night and you're clear. also...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9208)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9205)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9204)
    Naturally, my last day alive is the one where I am busiest at work and have to stay the latest.

    Please can we have another day?


    I'm on my way home so won't be fully present just yet. Reading everything ofc.
    sure but it's only because I'm the real joat.
    It sure would be hilarious if the wolves shoot the wrong joat claim again...
    I checked you last night and you're clear. also saved dizzy.

    i should have checked shep
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    Sticky: Completed sure but it's only because I'm the real joat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#9204)
    Naturally, my last day alive is the one where I am busiest at work and have to stay the latest.

    Please can we have another day?


    I'm on my way home so won't be fully present just yet. Reading everything ofc.
    sure but it's only because I'm the real joat.
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    Sticky: Completed oof, sorry the spoiler broke

    oof, sorry the spoiler broke
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    Sticky: Completed shep's first 3 pages of ISO (he has like 7 or...

    shep's first 3 pages of ISO (he has like 7 or something - i cut this off short because i want to focus on reading sloon and jack

    [SPOILER]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#657)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#648)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#641)
    Should we treat all of your non-EOD posts as serious/moderate accusations?
    i don't understand the question. it should be clear who i scumread the most based on my posts at any given moment. i'm an open book

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#641)
    Combine it with the post I made previously about the Dizzy/JJJ/Phyter interaction. One of the easiest places to work from if something comes up - if these players get cleared even that tells us something.
    sure - but i'm not following how you became convinced that there must be a scum between those interactions. what does that post tell us? what specifically is pinging you about that post?
    I never said their must be scum - just noted the interaction. There was a series of posts that all seemed to be related that didn't directly (or even afterwards) interact with each other. Those moments always give me pause - for example the Captain Video- Silverkeith interaction that happend on D1 in this season's Game 7 (I also noted when it happened in a simliar manner to here).
    first off, a shroop here (bolded). i've noticed it in a few of his posts.
    the grouping thing is also weird but I'm willing to chalk that up to playstyle differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#661)
    Early Thoughts

    Less Scumy
    -SPF: seems to be playing the game on a town level more than anyone else so far. Only person I have anything resembling a real Townlean on.
    -Jack doesn't post a lot early but has started to come through later on. This is actually in line with our last game but I kind of neglected Jack. I want to follow along this time and see where we get. I really like P#423. The HM/Sloonei stuff gives me pause for now but I think it may be t/t especially the way only Phighter jumps in and they put it as w/w instantly.
    -Hey_Monkey: Playing very town, seems to be focused on gamesolve & hesitant to even push a conclusion they reach (which I see as a town trait - but obviuosly bc I relate to it)


    Null
    -Roro: is fairly serious compared to what I remember from G7 - I need to re-read and see if this is important. However, this "serious" play has involved what seems like gamesolve. Don't trust it yet but the effort to gamesolve is present so far.
    -Radish: MR is doing MR things but I'm still filing this as "null" for now - I'm not falling into the trap of d1 aggroing him for not reading the first 5 pages again.
    -Dizzy: I have also accepted that I cannot possible read Dizzy so my only choise is that:
    for Dizzy I will TR all posts with a Gif and SR all posts without a Gif.
    Also See the dizzy/phyter/JJJ stuff down the line if it gets interesting. Seems to be dropped on all sides for now.
    -Dyachei: Seems to be attempting to be on the lower postcount of towncore and slide in. Need to see more.
    -Arete is so null for me right now its giving me a headache.

    More Scumy
    -Hally: Really fishing for engagement, tons of posts basically saying "INTERACT". Not entirely sure if thats AI but it's the biggest takeaway so far.
    -Phighter: Very eratic play, denied my question and just straight up said " this is not true" when SPF said they didnt' like the play so far. Big wild card. Is currently tunneled though, which is the strongest case to move to Null.
    -Michelle: Need to see a lot more play here, I know the timezones are awkward but I feel confident I know what Town!Michelle is now and I haven't seen it yet.
    -JJJ: plays so seriously for D1. Very concerned they are going to die today.I hate seeing this nervousness and it seems so forced most of the time.
    -Sloonei: exists. Jumps on bandwagons alot. Gets very defensive at P#473. Need to see gamesolve (see also: Chemist)
    -Chemist: Very vacouous posts. Denied the Sheppard HW (-1000 shep-rep). Not sensing gamesolve desire.
    i colored them in. lots opf villagers in his scummy pile (and yes, 2 wolves. But he doesn't push the hally read much that day

    he says he town read me d1 and part of d2 but here we see a description that makes it seem like he's suspicious of me "trying to slide in" to the towncore is not something you use to describe a v read

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#687)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#670)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#669)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#661)
    -Hally: Really fishing for engagement, tons of posts basically saying "INTERACT". Not entirely sure if thats AI but it's the biggest takeaway so far.
    @Sheppard why is me wanting to interact with ppl scummy? if anything that’s a huge town tell for me. i really place a lot of emphasis on talking to others as town because i really think it’s important to try to see each others’ perspectives and help them see mine. to me that’s how town finds each other and works well together. if you look at my play in sf3, you’ll see the same thing

    i’m also confused by your read on sloonei. what bandwagons has he jumped on? also i don’t understand what you’re saying with the bolded line about monkey/sloonei. that gives you pause about what?
    i’m not sure why my quotes are breaking
    @Sheppard
    Part 2: Answering the question about you


    I don't like it when people are begging for interactions in posts that look more interested in building relationships/trust than gamesolving. Good town play (IMO) involves gamesolving and building trust through actions - not responses/questions. I don't think all your posts are bad but it seems like when people aren't biting to your questions you aren't following throug enough and instead move on to the next person (aka looking for people to respond, not actually for answers). Follow-through solves games, if everything is a "poke" than nothing is.

    [This all said, my readlist is "1cm below null" for a reason)
    hedges on hally when they push back but oherwise this is kind of a dry response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#695)
    Going to sleep now, parking my vote on Chemist in the hopes this will get some more substantial posts + encourage some homework ( I see you other people not doing it -- and you suck too. I will get to you.)

    ##Vote Chemist1422
    votes mist

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#703)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#697)
    @Sheppard sorry, what? i was asking about your read on me but those posts aren’t mine, they’re sloonei’s
    I mixed up the responses a bit, I responded to this in the next post and then responded to Sloone seperate as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#710)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#709)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#689)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#681)
    Does anyone strongly oppose Mist being one of The Seven [townies]?
    Whyyyy are youuuu looking for 5-7 townies on d1.......that's not a towncore thats a townplanet
    Did you not read Jay at all? This is pretty thoroughly explained.

    I can’t sleep.
    I didn't like it the first time it was brought up either.

    Also @JaggedJimmyJay to answer your actual question: Yes, I oppose putting Mist in any kind of townclear/townlock scenario right now. I need to see more from them before they get anywhere close to that.
    pushes back about town core pretty strongly

    pushes mist specifically and we know mist was v

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#898)
    DYACHEI Sheppard Cross-Game Review (P#122)

    They know: Chemist, Hally, HM, Michelle,Phighter,Roro

    Doing Dya first bc with such a low post count it should be easy to detect any immediate changes from game to game.

    The third game Dya linked for town [https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24425], doesn't show up with them in the ISO or the teamlist. Did they have a different username? Someone lmk.

    Dyachei This game:


    Ealy D1 consists of the standard initial hype/$%#!posts before things get serious.


    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#35)
    General question to all:

    Are you mafia?
    no and it feel $%#!ing AWESOME
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#54)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#47)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#44)
    Dizzy is already a town read. That Hally comment looked real.
    Your mom is real.
    your mom's face is real
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#58)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#54)
    your mom's face is real
    My mom's face has the same dimples as me. Stolen.
    why would you steal her dimples? that seems horrific
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#126)
    hally hype!!


    But this immediately goes into actual gamesolve between $%#!posts as the thread turns more serious. There's a pattern here that looks very town - the way Dya pushes back against the leaving of the $%#!post world but is also totally willing to do it to help out.

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#142)
    is your read on hally just because they were later to the thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#155)
    dizzay answer my question about your hally read pls
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#166)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#160)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#155)
    dizzay answer my question about your hally read pls
    Can you repeat it? I'm not reading from A to B. =p
    you said once or twice that it was a serious read. is it because they were slightly tardy to the thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#188)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#180)
    I have two (2) town reads.
    do you wanna talk about it sloonei?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#211)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#204)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#60)
    They know each other well as denizens of the same website, Hally is always a high poster, and their failure to immediately join the entry post parade is a Thing. Whether that's actually a problem I won't say, but Dizzy noticed right away.
    do you not think it’s something dizzy would notice as scum? why is it a towny thing for him to say specifically?
    and dizzy already denied that when i brought it up
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#365)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#358)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#257)
    @roro__b

    how'd the rand treat you?
    I was secretly planning for another scumrand because I really really didn't want to rand scum. The way I'm going at it rn I'm still hyped about not having to fake $%#! from start, and just throw thoughts out when they come to me. Very liberating. I saw that you expressed the same sentiment earlier. I do have a secret read on you right now but I want to wait a bit with sharing it to see if it can be applied.


    For anyone OOTL, dya is one of my best friends irl and the one whose games I've followed the closest out of like, anyone anywhere. The w/w rand in SF1 meant that we could use that to our advantage and people bought it. Most of the things I wrote there were straight up lies or disingenuine. I was townreading stuff in thread and then going "lol this is something I'd pressure you for if we weren't both scum". This time, not as much.

    Also pretty sure I know what your answer here is going to be, but does this make you excited or worried dya? Or, even, worried that I might (mis)tunnel you based on what I've seen from you so far?
    excited, i think. I think i can pick you out as a wolf after wolfing with you. But if you've randed villa that means we can work together to find the wolves and i like that. i think i've been villagery so i dont know what you'd tunnel me on
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#368)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#360)
    Y'all should gimme your two or three or more than three strongest town reads so far. I would be appreciative. Please and thank you.
    monkey and arete
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#377)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#371)
    man, i really have to force myself to not post thoughts constantly, but if i do, i know that i’m gonna break the post cap within 24 hours. i’m trying to limit myself to a couple of posts per hour so that i don’t go overboard.

    fun observation: hally has quoted and asked a question about almost every single post i also had a question about. it's funny and it probably indicates to me that hally is playing with a similar mindset to me, unless theyre just really good at reading my posts ahead of time and asking similar things. the only thing giving me pause about feeling comfortable w/my townread on hally is the fact that they townread me concerningly fast, lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#338)
    I have an incredibly silly wolfread on Sloonei for essentially asking for pooptell and then not doing anything with it when I said I did
    i townread this but i can't really explain why. it feels like chemist is coming from a town mindset by deliberately calling attention to something that sloonei failed to follow up on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#336)
    Nah. But you're still more likely town than not maybe perhaps.
    why is jack more likely town than not?

    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#314)
    So far, I feel like you are somewhat disconnected from the thread - more focused on self and appearance than actually being IN the game.

    It does not mesh with my sense of you overall, so I think it's just that it's been a while, maybe, but honestly it's making me a little wary.
    i like this post from monkey because i had a similar concern about jack's game. his posts feel very overtly concerned with how people are perceiving him. his tone is very loose/casual, but not very inquisitive

    generally speaking, i'm feeling more comfortable with hey_monkey being town the more that i read/reflect on her posts

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#327)
    Arete
    Sloonei
    SPF

    Feel pretty good about these three now as I build my List of Seven. Four more please.
    i'm quite curious to hear why you townread me

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#360)
    Y'all should gimme your two or three or more than three strongest town reads so far. I would be appreciative. Please and thank you.
    arete, hally, hey_monkey

    i actually feel weird about my tr on hey_monkey because i don’t have any concrete logical reasons to tr her - her posts just feel good to me in the moment. i townread silverkeith for a similar reason last game, so i might need to think harder about that one

    but i feel pretty okay about the first two names so far

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#368)
    monkey and arete
    why do u tr these two? especially curious about your tr on monkey
    with monkey her entrance and play this game so far reminds me of her play in sf1. seems willing to talk on almost any topic.

    arete just feels really pure and is making insightful posts. I really liked the post where he asked after the wording with jack
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#402)
    tw ques†ions at me so far without follow up




    Then Dya's got to run sadly, so I hope we get to see more from them because if this pattern continues I wouldn't could move on to my next ISO and come back to Dya later.

    The last post about two questions I believe is in reference to SPF (P#371) and JJJ (P#360)


    So what does Dya's Other games look like?

    WOLF DYA:



    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#23)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos (#17)
    Damnit Giraffe and Carotte!!! Hello there!

    Let's hop right in!

    An icebreaker that I have to start us off!

    How confident is everyone in reading certain players in this game? I am the only Game 4-er in this semi, so I don’t have any champs experience with anyone. Nonetheless, I have played with the friendly chaps Chemist, smartbomb and psycho with some recency, and also Giraffe (in a turbo!), roro for one day in a team game, and dyachei quite a LONG time ago!

    Confidence on them? We will have to see - wouldn’t want to lock myself into anything or show a flag to players to play in a certain way! That being said, I am >>> more experienced with the first 3 names in that group.

    Let’s do this everyone! Excited to play with such an impressive group of people - everyone give it their all!
    not confident at all. I think I have watched or played with 1/3 the player list but I'm only confident in reading like 2-3 people?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#36)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos (#33)
    Thanks Dya. As a fellow regular MU-er, I will be leaning on you to help me read smartbomb, the sly pup!

    And good to know Giraffe, I like the way you have answered that question. What is your take on Carotte scum? I ask this specifically (see below in a second) for a reason.

    @Carotte, I couldn’t find a game that you were mafia in. I would like to read a game for myself - please link one if possible. Also, hope to work with you this game - I loved your play in Game 6!

    @Violet, I couldn’t locate Kyla forums(?) anywhere. Are you able to provide me with a game where you were MAFIA? Somewhat related, but, I know in your game 5 qualifier, things didn’t go how you wanted them to (being lynched etc). However,, I think I will personally identify you as a villager alignment easier if you don’t intentionally try to ‘change’ how you play in order to prevent this. I think you did a good job being yourself in that game, and that is all that I ask as well this game, if you are a villager.

    To answer a pre-emptive question, I wrote these questions this morning!
    I worry about reading sb accurately. if he hadn't been lock cleared in anni I would have been tinfoiling there a lot
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#61)
    @Tk

    Carlos - played with years ago. Haven't played many full length games with him, I think we did turbos, too. He can correct me if I'm wrong
    Chemist1422 - played with regularly throughout a few years. pretty comfortable reading him
    Holyflare - watched his game closely
    Penguin022 - played with for like 2 hours before brad happened
    Psycho666Soldier - played with before but I dont have any clue how to read him
    roro__b - played with once maybe? talk to him on discord regularly and like to troll him
    roundbox - watched the game closely as a possible sub
    SmartBomb - watched the game closely as a sub, have played a few games with sb
    tonystarkprime - watched the game closely as a sub


    that's about the extent of my knowledge
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#68)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#65)
    ok i've noticed it a couple times already so i'm just going to draw attention to the newly updated pronouns section of my profile and leave it at that
    my bad chem. I will be better about this for you
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#85)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos (#80)
    Roundbox's entrance is by far the scummiest to me, both via my take on their town game, and in a standalone world.

    I will see how he responds first re: meta, though, independently, he seems to be struggling to convey a natural tone presently.

    Good vote, Violet.

    @SmartBomb and TSP, do you get any negative vibes from round thus far?
    ##Vote roundbox
    isn't that what got him mis-elimmed in the first game?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#203)
    i don't really get the roundbox pushes so far. i'm getting the same feel i got from his first game and i thought it was a tragedy he was elimmed
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#733)
    still trying to get caught up from overnight but there were a few questions for me so far.

    @Psycho666Soldier - I didn't give carlos names because I don't think he asked for them? and tk asked for more detail. So i gave more detail.

    getting a little pushback on my roundbox read, too. I read that game as if I were going to sub into it. I took notes on all the players and watched it closely. I had reads on every player in the game before I finally subbed in to game 8 instead. Roundbox hasn't approached this game differently so far and the pressure on round is very reminiscent of g7.

    I think someone asked about my tsp read, as well. i find that villagers more than wolves tend to be paranoid of everyone and make a ton of wolf reads where wolves tend to make more village reads. It feels like TSP has suspected at least half the game now
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#748)
    couple of thoughts from being caught up

    holy/carlos never w/w. Not sure if it's because I have carlos as slight town for his process or if it's just a gut thing but if it is v/w I think the w more likely to be holy

    GS' ISO on carotte was basically all OMGUS. I didn't like the case and it felt really weak and predicated on the w read carotte had on GS
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#749)
    I sort of liked what psycho was doing overnight but I'm concerned he can do it as both alignments
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#968)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#964)
    I am pissed. My prey was stolen right from my jaws.
    what do you mean here?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#976)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#970)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#968)
    what do you mean here?
    Kruze. I had him and then a last second vote switch and a coin flip and he survived.

    Hi, welcome to the game.
    ah ok, I looked briefly at the wagons but have been more concerned with catching up this morning.

    Some light reads from the first 500 posts

    light town
    vinnie
    daniel
    ash
    dekay

    Think ara is posting like she normally does but I'm not sure yet. might be able to get a better handle on her when I read the rest of d1

    I didnt really like fleur or kruze but I don't have the best rep at reading kruze in the games I've played with him.
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#980)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#978)
    My apologies to Ike, but I really did think you were suspicious/mafia given your response to being pressured and monitoring chat while not contributing.


    I think Legend Dan kill makes sense, he was generally liked...
    More importantly, he was one of the 5 living players who voted for Kruze, and he wasn't Drums.

    If I am mafia, I am 100% killing someone who was active and voted for Kruze.

    Ara, me, and everyone else who voted for Ike look shady.
    The full list, in order of when they voted:
    Arapocalypse (169)
    Zen Blade (58)
    Daniel (88)
    DeKay (76)
    KruZe (123)
    Catty91 (44)


    This being said, we have little to no info on:
    Steele, Kevan, and Dyachei, all of whom were missing at end of day.
    I'll be here for a bunch this day phase, so hopefully you'll be able to get a read of me sooner rather than later
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#985)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#984)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#979)
    I'd suggest doing a bit of rereading at EoD, not too much to catch up on!!!

    Main thing was a case I made somewhat-close to EoD which turned out to be wrong!!
    Or wolves were derailing on purpose...that case literally came out of nowhere and judging by how quickly the votes were gathered it was blatantly obvious Ike would flip Town.


    That being said, I highly suspect Catty right now. They were saying they suspect KruZe, yet voted for Ike. This doesn't add up.
    do you suspect kruze as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#997)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#993)
    I want to account for myself right now since I know I am in a couple of people's cross-hairs and I have work-related meetings and stuff on/off all day.


    My vote history on Day 1:

    #31 Zen Blade voted for Arapocalypse (testing system; Ara had already placed a vote. Vote was immediately undone)
    #502 Zen Blade voted for dyachei (Most of Day 1 I was on Lynching Berz because there was no information)
    #689 Zen Blade voted for No Lynch (I forgot how to unvote, and was trying to get back to that position)
    #693 Zen Blade unvoted
    #707 Zen Blade voted for Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (It was Kruze vs Kevan at this point, and I did not want to lynch a heavily engaged player)
    #747 Zen Blade voted for Steele (Kevan began to engage, and I swapped to Steele who went MIA...)
    #882 Zen Blade voted for RagingIke297 (Getting NO support on any of my actions so far, I swapped to Ike because I did not want to lynch a heavily involved player)
    ---


    I don't get why a "wagon" was never formed on Kevan or Steele or even "Berz". I provided several chances for those to form, and no one joined.

    Additionally, there didn't seem to be much emphasis from anyone other than me and Ara to find an alternative to Kruze... So, I wonder (to myself):

    1. Is that because Kruze is a villager, and the mafia are happy with whatever
    or...
    2. Is that because Kruze is a mafia, and the mafia are already going against him or mostly unengaged
    or...
    3. Is that because Kruze is a mafia, and the mafia did make a decision, but just at the end, with them breaking late... (for or against him).


    Cheers,
    what cases did you make on my slot/kevan/steele?

    I'm only at the vote on my slot for right now but it was for "no information". Why would people follow you onto something like that
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1018)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#1010)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#997)
    what cases did you make on my slot/kevan/steele?

    I'm only at the vote on my slot for right now but it was for "no information". Why would people follow you onto something like that
    My position (as you are probably reading now) is that Day 1 reads with all strangers in a completely new format are terrible.

    THEREFORE, you want to see high-posting players to get a sense of style and what their baseline looks like. As the game progresses, you will be able to make better reads since they are more engaged, and wolves have a far harder time being heavily engaged in a "pro-town" manner. In real life, when I play werewolf/Avalon, I rely heavily on body language and reads of people's behavior, especially when accused or just talking things out. The Ike vote is a really good example of this. when he says "I think..." alarm bells went off.

    So, your slot/Kevan/Steele were all heavily disengaged Day 1 players. No information, no baseline, no read. If they are a wolf, we aren't learning about it during the day. Kruze (and the other high posters) are telling us lots of information about themselves, and it may take a couple of days to sift through it, but we will be able to sift through it since it exists...

    I can't do that with you, Kevan, or Steele.
    ok, but why would people wagon there if it's just a personal dislike of lack of engagement? you have to do some degree of convincing other people to vote with you


    Presenting this en masse without individual commentary since I think you should all see what i see here - lots of pokes, questions, one liners. Similiar to the dozen posts this game right?

    Except....


    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#85)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#19)
    Hey everyone,

    So, I will be active, but just a warning I have a couple of important things happening over the next couple weeks, and I will be less around at times.

    Tomorrow - big webinar presentation
    July 11th - I have to be at a wedding (mine)


    For those who weren't with us the first time on Day 1, let's chat about something fun and random!

    I think that is...
    Dya,
    Hally,
    Penguin

    Where are you three from?


    Also, my sincerest apologies to Ike. Sorry about that.
    :-(
    First of all congrats on the upcoming nuptials! July 11th best date for a wedding (my anniversary is on that day).

    I originally hailed from Student Doctor Network (SDN) when I started playing in s3 (2016). However, I really liked the games on MU and the features that @Makaze has worked so hard on so I stuck around. Now I barely play on SDN and have become a head mod on MU, so MU is more my home base.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#36)
    ltns! villager checkin' in, I'm limited to phone posting at the moment and reading between games of Sea of Thieves. Welcome TracingWoods, grats Zen Blade on the wedding! good summary from Ash... I hope to deserve to avoid your tunnel this game good sir!
    I’m gratified to see you’ve maintained your bright, lime green, villager disposition!

    My doctor has advised a diet low on Kruze’s and I shall endeavour to abide by that advice.
    Are...are you saying you eat villagers???


    On a more serious note, I don't have reads on most people but I kind of liked catty's posts (particularly about the difficulty reading people so far because I agree). I'd like to hear more about votes on them
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#93)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#92)
    ok, maybe daniel can be town. i liked that post just now. so that’s

    ash
    ara
    daniel

    as town so far. i don’t really have anything else. kinda just waiting for more people to get here
    what are your thoughts on catty and why?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#101)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#100)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#98)
    Hey Hally!!

    Can you elaborate a bit on what in particular you liked about the post/what tipped you over into townreading Daniel?
    idk, just seems to be solving and trying hard to generate content. the things he’s focusing on feel organic to me. like how he’s comparing even small things to g8 to gauge ppl better this game
    is it bad i want to call you town for how vague this is compared to how specific you were as a wolf?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#111)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#106)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#101)
    is it bad i want to call you town for how vague this is compared to how specific you were as a wolf?
    Hey Dya!!!

    I don't think it's that bad of a read as I also agree; does feel more flowy in a sense that it just feels a bit more natural where she's like yeah, I don't know just various town things!!

    I'm also keeping in mind that most of her posts there were catchup posts/we didn't get realtime!mafia!Hally, however; you're not getting off that easy!!!
    it's enough different that it works for d1 for me at minimum

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin022 (#109)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#85)
    On a more serious note, I don't have reads on most people but I kind of liked catty's posts (particularly about the difficulty reading people so far because I agree). I'd like to hear more about votes on them
    What were your thoughts on Catty's vote against me?
    I don't mind it because it's not really set in stone? Like it seems very much like an early vote to feel things out
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#123)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#119)
    actually surprised about how little has been posted since last night

    still not a fan of any unnecessary roleplaying @Ash, to me just feels like a waste of time to read and i end up skipping entire interactions
    It's a light game so have to be careful not to "waste" too many posts since there's the 50 post cap until the time right before EOD.

    I'm kind of understanding the votes on penguin a bit more now. But I'm not convinced enough to vote there
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#141)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#139)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#134)
    I think the biggest thing for me on penguin is that he keeps trying to keep the POE wide open?

    Like I townread you for something admittedly a little easy and his immediate reaction was to balk at that.

    He's done it with several others, too. I guess I wouldn't expect a villager to be this resistant
    The bolded is... interesting; I'm just sort of ??? at a suspicion at this point in the game (first half of day 1) based on keeping the PoE wide open?

    Just not really something I'd expect; sure, maybe when the PoE is getting narrowed down in mid-late game, but as of right now we haven't exactly got much of a PoE at all!!

    Could just be the wording though, to be fair!!

    I don't really have thoughts on Penguin, having semi-glazed over the votes on him thus far; will probably get around to that in a bit!!!
    It's more about being really hesitant to let anyone clear anyone else?


    This game looks identical to the wolf games. The key difference?

    The targets. Who is being answered both times?
    In the wolf games there is a distinct lack of having the wolfs (In the first set of quotes its Roro & TK, in the second there Dya was a sub so their initial quesetioning was a bit different).
    In the town games its people who have spoken, without respect to who the wolves are.

    I know all of you knew this, but I can see now why Dya is respected as such a dangerous wolf.

    My conclusion here has to be the boring one - "null" - there's not a lot of posts so far and we all knew this is what it would be. BUT there's one reason I did this and I found what I was looking for.
    With respect to an eventual Dya flip or NK we can rexaime the "targets" of the D1 playstyle.

    Other notes:
    Why did JJJ & SPF drop those questions and then not respond?


    Questions for other players going forward:

    Dya, Hally, and Roro have all been wolves together.

    What are do they think of the way this game is going and if the other two are in their wolfrange?

    DYA- Hasn't posted a readlist yet so we will see when they return about this question.

    Roro - Has Dya in vague!town core, & hally in POE. Spoiler below is Roro on The "POE vs Not POE" since that is what they posted in lieue of a readlist.


    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#534)
    Chemist1422 - Not PoE. Not scared to stand out, sticks to her reads.

    dyachei - Not PoE. I like their approach here. It's *think music* all played in a Major key, which is the single thing that stands out the most in their gameplay. At a later stage I'm sure I'll have thoughts on content, but it's night and day with the wolf-games of theirs that I've followed.

    Dyslexicon - PoE. Pretty messy for me to sort. Not a strong scumread, but stupid me thinks that town!dizzy would have more to comment on that early read by jay made on him, rather than having hally and others digging into it a bit. Dizzy was just happy with it. Some jabs at my wordiness but could be down to gameplay.

    Hally - PoE. They have some thoughts on me which feel genuine, but no follow-up despite directing 3(?) questions at me, and sorta at others too... and uh, I have thoughts on this wall they just posted but I'll save them for later.

    hey_monkey - PoE. I really like her posting style, which I did in semis too. I can't make out anything here that makes me go "woah she's really towny" but I really hope we can't get there. Still PoE because not having shown anything that cannot be faked.

    Jackofhearts2005 - PoE. Lacking content here but has still used up a third of his posts.

    JaggedJimmyJay - PoE. Yeah uhm, does the town-leading thing because anything else would be weird tbh. Is a subject of discussion, I'm not sure I have the same reasons for doubting him, but I've written a lot of it out. I think this will solve itself, but saying that Jay is acting towny and should be clear is a big, fat exaggeration tbh. Granted, I don't have meta on him.

    Master Radishes - IDKYET. Not in gaem yet

    Michelle - IDKYET. Not in gaem yet

    Phighter - IDKYET. Posted a generic thing about how players would approach the game based on alignment. I think my takeaway was that I believe him to trust the approach, but not decided tbh. Other than that, the weird shepp read, but idk if it would come from scum!phi? Hard one to solve tbh.

    Sheppard - IDKYET. Want more tbh.

    Sloonei - PoE. Top scum tbh. The Jack defense was a good example of someone who snap-defends someone else in their stead, for ?? reasons. Like, the mindset he's got when approaching my post either says he KNOWS jack is town, or that they're buddies. Just wrote more on him, but for completeness sake, had a lot of comments and digging posts that weren't fakeable at all tbh.

    staypositivefriend - Not PoE. The starting stuff vs me make sense. She's asking questions that I've bookmarked as "good one" etc, and am vibing with, I like the approach.

    Arete - Not PoE. Probably my top townread atp. Want more content ofc, but the few thoughts and questions are spot on for me.



    This is probably where I'm at right now. Arete/dya/chemist my top towns by quite a margin. SPF, and maybe hally and hey_monkey a tier below. Then possibly jay/phighter/jack/dizzy something something?


    6am, i'm aiming to go to slep now.


    Hally - Has Dya in "needs to sort" and Roro at bottom of list (Roro = dobby right?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#685)
    i really need to sleep now because it’s 3am. here’s a rough sketch of where i’m at before i go

    towny:
    spf
    arete
    monkey
    sloonei
    ———
    mist
    jay

    need to sort:
    jack
    dizzy
    dya
    shep
    michelle
    radishes
    ———
    phighter
    dobby

    mist and jay are knocking on the door of my town reads, so to speak, but they aren’t on the same level as the group above. mist is partially there because spf and arete seem confident she should be and i think their reasons are good. but i also do lean town on her independent for her individualism/contrarianism. and i’ve been starting to see jay’s perspective more as the game goes on and we’ve interacted, so he’s trending up

    my focus tomorrow will be trying to sort the ppl i don’t have as tr’s and getting a better handle on them. atm phighter and dobby concern me the most out of that group. everyone else there either hasn’t made an impression on me or i haven’t made up my mind about them

    anyway, gn friends!




    Summarizing the To-Do List Going Forward:
    -Don't towncore Dya at this low post number you $%#!ing dweebs - their wolfplay/townplay d1 is unidentifiable from what I can see.
    -Watch early Dya interactions post a flip of either those people (specifically JJJ/SPF too) or a Dya flip down the line
    -Why didn't Roro & Hally reference the past scum game I found but instead an altogether different one for their reads on their past scummates?
    bolded is a shroop again

    here's the key to me being a wolf vs being a villager - if I talk a lot with wolves early, I'm a more likely wolf.

    So sheppard puts me at null for now (not a v read as he later states).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#905)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#902)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#887)
    Likewise Jack's name feels crammed forcibly into 638. It may reflect inordinate awareness of one another.
    You’re misreading my post.

    I’m saying it’s scummy that Shepherd was like “Everyone fighting each other is scum” and tossing in low poster Michelle is also scummy.
    I'm not worldbuilding with my "1cm below null" category on my first readlist.

    Also, I don't think its good mafia to clear a fight as T/W just bc it was a spat. I know you know better than that as well, so this line of questioning is kind of bizzare.

    RE:Michelle is an aggressive town in past games I've read and played with them (I'm still reading their old games now for my next post). T!Michelle in my experience finds a lead, and holds on tight and questions it until they find out what they feel they needed to. I havne't seen that this game, so I'm sus.
    good earlyish michelle read

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#910)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#886)
    ok so a few things

    i cant help but think that people reading phi wolf for his reads have never played with or watched phighter play. he often is stubborn and aggressive with his reads. he's usually more accurate as a wolf, though. @Jackofhearts2005 that might answer your question for me as well

    which brings me to my next point. sllonei's activities this game have been strikingly similar to his sf game. why is that suddenly wolfy?

    andspf isnt making good points against me - she said i was aimlessly scumhunting and i agreed. at the time it was like an hour into the game. im not gonna be more directed in stuff until i know the feel of the game

    and people are free to ask me about reads and stuff. happy to show my thought process but it doesnt always occur to me to write them out in my posts.

    something feels weird about this game so far and im not sure what it is. maybe it's that theres a lot of mistrust going around? maybe it comes from jjj as hes sort of trying to village lead and it feels flat?
    ofc you post right after i write my wall smh

    Whats off about SPF for you?
    willing to chat with me on spf here - i believe this is about where i got into an argument with someone over the aimlessly hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#956)
    ##Vote Michelle

    Where you at?

    Come play.
    votes michelle here but still seems to give himself an out

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#987)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#983)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#898)
    Summarizing the To-Do List Going Forward:
    -Don't towncore Dya at this low post number you $%#!ing dweebs - their wolfplay/townplay d1 is unidentifiable from what I can see.
    -Watch early Dya interactions post a flip of either those people (specifically JJJ/SPF too) or a Dya flip down the line
    -Why didn't Roro & Hally reference the past scum game I found but instead an altogether different one for their reads on their past scummates?
    @Sheppard

    Just quoting the end of your post for brevity. I don't really take issue with the assertions you make here. That you land at "null" makes my brain scream in outrage, but I do appreciate the conclusion which is more properly "Dya shouldn't be in a town core".

    I don't have any personal experience playing with dyachei and cannot speak to their mafia range. I can't imagine what we've seen in this game is outside it though. I also just griped about a post in 928. So I think we're on the same page, or close enough.

    I do like the effort you put into that, as it clearly reflects you putting your entry questionnaire to use in a meaningful way. That reminds me:

    Town:
    Game 6
    Semifinal 3
    Jack Attack (no post cap, role madness)

    Mafia:
    Season 6 scrimmage game (no post cap if I recall correctly)
    Syndicate 2019 Game of Champions (two mafia teams, no post cap, probably useless)
    Ziggy Stardust (very stringent post cap, role madness)
    Thank you for sharing the games. I hope more people do.

    Dya's wolfrange looks HUGE. I didn't like doing all that work for "null" but the main take away is exactly what you got - I don't think we should put Dya in towncore yet. Not even close, despite how many people seem to think the opposite of me.

    I don't think I can do more than 2 full reads + posts in an IRL day due to work, mental exhaustion, etc. but my goal is going to be to get through all of them in the order that will make sense based on either post order, gamestate, or my own reads (or dispelling reads I disagree with to get people I "trust" on track).
    again, I'm supposedly a town read to him later. and again, he puts me in null but talks about things that kind of nudge people to be suspicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#990)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#980)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#967)
    Roro being the only one to respond to my Dya post (which should take 1% as long to read as it did for me to read the ISOs & write it) makes me very sad.
    Why'd you start with dya, who's relatively inactive right now for RL reasons?
    I stated at the top: I wanted to start with someone who I could get through their D1 posts fairly quickly.

    My goals for the post:

    1. Figure out the best way to cross reference this information (something I've been getting better at each game of forum I play)

    2. Determine past meta history between Dya and other players

    3. Determine a wolfrange going forward for Dya

    4. Determine what the best route forward for both Dya's slot and the slots of the people from point 2
    this is why he started with me. I think i had under 30 posts when he started.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#994)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#992)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#987)
    Thank you for sharing the games. I hope more people do.

    Dya's wolfrange looks HUGE. I didn't like doing all that work for "null" but the main take away is exactly what you got - I don't think we should put Dya in towncore yet. Not even close, despite how many people seem to think the opposite of me.

    I don't think I can do more than 2 full reads + posts in an IRL day due to work, mental exhaustion, etc. but my goal is going to be to get through all of them in the order that will make sense based on either post order, gamestate, or my own reads (or dispelling reads I disagree with to get people I "trust" on track).
    Okay, but WHO IS SAYING PUT DYA IN TOWNCORE THO? Is anyone? Or are you sky-is-falling this just in case?

    I also don't understand if you're limited in this strategy why you started with dya, who isn't even really an issue either way right now. You're saying don't put them in core - okay done! good job, team!
    Did you see my post above about goals before typing this? Or read the actual post itself?

    Roro literally put Dya in their 3 person core/lean/reads/whateverthatpoepostwas. Which I quoted. In the post. That you're talking about.
    here you can see some of the argument that started as a result of his "null" read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#999)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#996)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#994)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#992)
    Okay, but WHO IS SAYING PUT DYA IN TOWNCORE THO? Is anyone? Or are you sky-is-falling this just in case?

    I also don't understand if you're limited in this strategy why you started with dya, who isn't even really an issue either way right now. You're saying don't put them in core - okay done! good job, team!
    Did you see my post above about goals before typing this? Or read the actual post itself?

    Roro literally put Dya in their 3 person core/lean/reads/whateverthatpoepostwas. Which I quoted. In the post. That you're talking about.
    yea but its like dobby and mist who townread me and thats it. and dobby and i know each other really well
    For those of you that haven't played with me, read my games, or listened to the podcast I went on I'm going to look very weird. I approach games "sideways" - I look where nobody else is looking. Because thats' often where the mafia are hiding.

    I am going to eventually get to everyone who submitted their games - in the order based on post date, gamestate, or my current readlist/readlist of others based on what I think is best at that time.
    so then we get this as an answer to why he's been yelling at people not to town core me and only dobby is. The answer doesn't even track with the question. This has nothing to do with looking at the game sideways, it is trying to move me out of towncores because shep thinks I have a large wolf range. He's arguing with people that actively read me as villa. and again it implies he's looking at me as a wolf instead of just being wary of me.

    honestly, with all the attention he pulled to this, I don't really see a village reason. I do see a wolf reason and it's to keep me in the poe. remember this is all from early game and he's been given several ways to just back off this, but he doesn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1001)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#997)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#994)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#992)
    Okay, but WHO IS SAYING PUT DYA IN TOWNCORE THO? Is anyone? Or are you sky-is-falling this just in case?

    I also don't understand if you're limited in this strategy why you started with dya, who isn't even really an issue either way right now. You're saying don't put them in core - okay done! good job, team!
    Did you see my post above about goals before typing this? Or read the actual post itself?

    Roro literally put Dya in their 3 person core/lean/reads/whateverthatpoepostwas. Which I quoted. In the post. That you're talking about.
    But see, let's follow that out:

    That's one person. Who also isn't in the towncore, and who probably shouldn't be trusted with dya anyway based not only on your own work in your post, but based on SF1 alone for anyone not doing that deep dive.

    So therefore, there is little chance of anyone putting dya in towncore even if they were inclined to.

    So therefore, I repeat: if you are doing this in a limited capacity--

    you know what, scratch that, I'm just going to say what I mean:

    I assume you expect me to townread you for this work. This is your solve. From my perspective, it looks as much like busywork as Jay's chart, because it comes to a conclusion the thread already had and actually covers issues that were discussed in thread re: dya, so there was actually not much need to go mining for them elsewhere.

    So from my perspective, this work could easily be wolfwork. You see what I'm saying?
    I didn't do it to be townread, I did it to gamesolve. and I'm going to keep doing these until we find wolves.
    again, there's more like this in the thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1010)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#1006)
    As a token of goodwill, a barely-formed readslist:

    People whose jib I like the cut of:
    Sorted roughly by level of confidence
    Sheppard – now that I know his meta from SF2, this is town!Shep and I refuse to believe otherwise
    Monkey – inquisitive, free with her thoughts, unintimidated by anyone she tangles with, good thought process, etc
    Arete – tone is pretty pure; that's basically it and this is definitely the type of read I can either be wrong about

    Dya – based mainly on the excitement in their ‘I didn’t rand scum’ post; it felt genuine and they also didn’t lead off with it (it was like their 5th or 6th post or something) / they only said so when prompted - I agree with the sentiment 'don't towncore them too easily!' but still lean town more than not atp
    Dizzy – attitude seems similar to SF2 and I do agree with Jay’s snap read of his insta-read on Hally being one coming from a town mindset

    Phighter – I can’t remember specifically which posts helped me decide this (I should really be writing things down) but I think it can sort of be summarised as feeling like he’s a waterfall

    People who I have thought about but have not sorted
    Read: I harbour suspicions I can not fully form into words yet / may just not be vibing with their style yet / may just be tinfoiling
    SPF
    Jay
    Sloonei
    Dobby

    People I honestly haven’t bothered to mull over yet
    Mist
    Michelle
    Hally
    Jack
    MR really $%#!ing wants to pocket me and I am not going to let it happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1048)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#1040)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#979)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#961)
    I don't know if I could run a Dya-style post on this but I would love to watch them so I can get a good grasp on your playstyle.

    Btw I mentioned this earlier but IMO Phighter stock is going up. Sloonei's reponse to me suggesting your push was artificial was so $%#!ing sketch
    Okay I'm going to ask this.

    Sheppard, you've known that you'd be playing in this game for a good couple of weeks. Afaict you think that background checks and meta is important, because that's how you're spending this day apparently. Have you really not done any background check beforehand? Why are you doing this now? I like many of the things you've squeezed in between these posts, but this really feels like it could be legit busywork and I really don't see why you'd choose to do this thing right now. Care to give a few words on why you feel like this is the best strategy for you to solve the game today?
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#992)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#987)
    Thank you for sharing the games. I hope more people do.

    Dya's wolfrange looks HUGE. I didn't like doing all that work for "null" but the main take away is exactly what you got - I don't think we should put Dya in towncore yet. Not even close, despite how many people seem to think the opposite of me.

    I don't think I can do more than 2 full reads + posts in an IRL day due to work, mental exhaustion, etc. but my goal is going to be to get through all of them in the order that will make sense based on either post order, gamestate, or my own reads (or dispelling reads I disagree with to get people I "trust" on track).
    Okay, but WHO IS SAYING PUT DYA IN TOWNCORE THO? Is anyone? Or are you sky-is-falling this just in case?

    I also don't understand if you're limited in this strategy why you started with dya, who isn't even really an issue either way right now. You're saying don't put them in core - okay done! good job, team!
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#997)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#994)
    Did you see my post above about goals before typing this? Or read the actual post itself?

    Roro literally put Dya in their 3 person core/lean/reads/whateverthatpoepostwas. Which I quoted. In the post. That you're talking about.
    But see, let's follow that out:

    That's one person. Who also isn't in the towncore, and who probably shouldn't be trusted with dya anyway based not only on your own work in your post, but based on SF1 alone for anyone not doing that deep dive.

    So therefore, there is little chance of anyone putting dya in towncore even if they were inclined to.

    So therefore, I repeat: if you are doing this in a limited capacity--

    you know what, scratch that, I'm just going to say what I mean:

    I assume you expect me to townread you for this work. This is your solve. From my perspective, it looks as much like busywork as Jay's chart, because it comes to a conclusion the thread already had and actually covers issues that were discussed in thread re: dya, so there was actually not much need to go mining for them elsewhere.

    So from my perspective, this work could easily be wolfwork. You see what I'm saying?


    like, these are the type of things i was talking about earlier heymonkey lol

    FWIW regarding shepp i'm.. fine with him doing his thing i think. Definitely for now at least. I'm not too fond of everyone's way of playing the game but I'm not going to say I know better, because I don't.

    @Sheppard , thanks for that answer. It's... a recollection of what you've done up until now, I'm still wondering about this approach though. I hope you do see the concern with me calling it busywork /hm calling it wolfwork. Is this how you approached the semis as well? I can't really say I know much about how you played that game tbh, and this isnt something i remember from g7 either.
    I know it may look like busywork right now (bc the first conclusion was just: Dont' towncore this person), but I didn't ask those questions to NOT to not use the information given.

    This is my playstyle, in the Semis I took this approach as well in terms of going "Sideways" at the game. I decided to take this approach after I felt like G7 showed the weakness of playing too far back. I wish I was more aggressive in that game and I'm trying to pivot my forum playstyle to match that (which is also how I play IRL).
    It worked great in the semis - my votes ended up on wolves every day after d1 and usually pretty early on as VT.
    more on this sideways thing. again, he went with the top of the list and i had the least post - he said that in his own words, right? so why is he now wolfhunting sideways instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1050)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1048)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#1040)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#979)
    Okay I'm going to ask this.

    Sheppard, you've known that you'd be playing in this game for a good couple of weeks. Afaict you think that background checks and meta is important, because that's how you're spending this day apparently. Have you really not done any background check beforehand? Why are you doing this now? I like many of the things you've squeezed in between these posts, but this really feels like it could be legit busywork and I really don't see why you'd choose to do this thing right now. Care to give a few words on why you feel like this is the best strategy for you to solve the game today?
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#992)
    Okay, but WHO IS SAYING PUT DYA IN TOWNCORE THO? Is anyone? Or are you sky-is-falling this just in case?

    I also don't understand if you're limited in this strategy why you started with dya, who isn't even really an issue either way right now. You're saying don't put them in core - okay done! good job, team!
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#997)
    But see, let's follow that out:

    That's one person. Who also isn't in the towncore, and who probably shouldn't be trusted with dya anyway based not only on your own work in your post, but based on SF1 alone for anyone not doing that deep dive.

    So therefore, there is little chance of anyone putting dya in towncore even if they were inclined to.

    So therefore, I repeat: if you are doing this in a limited capacity--

    you know what, scratch that, I'm just going to say what I mean:

    I assume you expect me to townread you for this work. This is your solve. From my perspective, it looks as much like busywork as Jay's chart, because it comes to a conclusion the thread already had and actually covers issues that were discussed in thread re: dya, so there was actually not much need to go mining for them elsewhere.

    So from my perspective, this work could easily be wolfwork. You see what I'm saying?


    like, these are the type of things i was talking about earlier heymonkey lol

    FWIW regarding shepp i'm.. fine with him doing his thing i think. Definitely for now at least. I'm not too fond of everyone's way of playing the game but I'm not going to say I know better, because I don't.

    @Sheppard , thanks for that answer. It's... a recollection of what you've done up until now, I'm still wondering about this approach though. I hope you do see the concern with me calling it busywork /hm calling it wolfwork. Is this how you approached the semis as well? I can't really say I know much about how you played that game tbh, and this isnt something i remember from g7 either.
    I know it may look like busywork right now (bc the first conclusion was just: Dont' towncore this person), but I didn't ask those questions to NOT to not use the information given.

    This is my playstyle, in the Semis I took this approach as well in terms of going "Sideways" at the game. I decided to take this approach after I felt like G7 showed the weakness of playing too far back. I wish I was more aggressive in that game and I'm trying to pivot my forum playstyle to match that (which is also how I play IRL).
    It worked great in the semis - my votes ended up on wolves every day after d1 and usually pretty early on as VT.
    Also: I don't like that HM asked me why I didn't do this analysis on people who didn't even link their games. Shows that concern isn't as genuine as yours seems - bc they didn't read my posts enough to even see what options I was picking from.
    he has a lot of complaints when people dont read his posts. this is fair, I complain about that too

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1056)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1055)
    jack: dya's posts are bad
    sheppard: can see why dya's wolf game is respected

    I don't know how anyone can say all 12 of your posts are bad when they are identical to your 12 posts from both wolf and town games.
    here's the only thing he's said that could be construed as a town read

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1057)
    Jack stock is very low rn imo.
    wants to push jack early

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1077)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1072)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#933)
    Does anyone else feel like the Sloonei narrative is a bit pushed? I skimmed SF3 + did a couple ISOs but I'm not seeing a big delta in playpattern here for Sloonei. I think they look sus, but they also looked sus in their Semis game as VT.
    so gth, what would your read on sloonei be right now? and if the narrative on him being scum is being pushed, who is pushing it?

    this post feels like the beginning of an interesting thought

    interestingly enough, sloonei said the exact same thing about that post on #948 after i had already typed this. the mindmeld is kind of cool
    GTH Sloonei is town. I don't really know their wolfrange though.

    I elaborated a bit, and I agree with what Sloonei said which is

    1. Scary. I hate agreeing with people.

    2. Phi is the main push, but its likely that Phi could be T and the secondary supporters of the Push (dizzy, etc.) are the 'artifical' part

    2B. I don't have a SR on Dizzy yet though, so its hard to tell for now. I need Dizzy to come back and play a bit more in light of the recent discussions.
    this is all fine too

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1087)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1084)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#1058)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1052)
    RE: Your first point

    Do you think Phightr is pocketing Mist here? I don't think Phi is paticularly pocketing everyone, it feels like they could turn on Mist in 2 seconds the way this game and their progression on everyone has gone.
    No, that would just be my first instinct if Phighter is mafia.

    ~~~

    ##Vote Michelle

    I'm going to roast on this for a bit.

    I am a bit frustrated by the game (primarily my place in it) and need to spend some time away from it to reclaim my good vibes. I still think we're doing okay folks, so keep chopping wood. The quest for The Seven is progressing well enough, and if we can manage that then everything else is irrelevant. Forgive my grumping townies, I still love you.

    Reiterating my eight-player town group as of right this moment: Arete, Hally, SPF, monkey, Phighter, Sloonei, Chemist, Sheppard
    ##Vote JaggedJimmyJay

    I didn-t notice from you a question, anything to make me observe you want for real to read my AI.
    I also don't like Jay's vote reasoning, but do you really think the OMGUS here is justified?
    this interaction with michelle exists. I like it tbh. i think it's a decent call out

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1093)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1090)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1087)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1084)
    ##Vote JaggedJimmyJay

    I didn-t notice from you a question, anything to make me observe you want for real to read my AI.
    I also don't like Jay's vote reasoning, but do you really think the OMGUS here is justified?
    Yes of course
    and the follow up is good too

    my only nagging feeling here is they could do this as w/w. there's nothing...spicy here. michelle doesn't really go at him for his read and he doesn't really use it to push her

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1144)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1140)
    <snip>
    Shep is the other notable player here, since he could be said to have to pushed the narrative a little, but then he is also the one who raised this exact issue, and currently has me as a town lean as well. But I also note that I'm not sure he's done a whole lot with the idea just yet. That's not a terrible look in the grand scheme; he's been doing plenty of other things by the looks of it. But I would like to know if his thoughts have developed much beyond his agreement with my initial take.

    Imma do this:
    ##Vote Jackofhearts2005
    Honestly it hasn't had time to develop while I've been busy with work for the last couple hours + other progressions. The main thing is that it seems to be in a stalled state without much progress. When Phi/Dizzy come back hopefully that will make progress on this (which I think I stated earlier - really need to hear more from them before moving).

    This is also like, kind of a backburner issue for me rn. I'm not really convinced on taking you out D1 vs some of the better options right now and still really need the Michelle/Jack situation developed and disucssed more. I really don't like the Jack interactions earlier in the game that HM pointed out nor the little spat he had over my readlist etc.

    That said, like my previous post indicated, my #1 goals rn are:

    -Do the Roro or Arete game research & compile something worth sharing

    -Solve the Michelle situation (I hate to bite the LFH, but my heart is telling me to keep pressing this issue)
    wants to resolve/solve michelle but doesn't want to go for lhf, wants to focus more on michelle/jack but seemingly doesn't want to look at the jack portion. would rather focus on arete/roro game research.

    its weird to me that you'd want to focus on looking at old games when people are discussing someone you've talked about needing to solve...well it might be a playstyle difference but it sticks out to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1175)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1157)
    @everyone -

    tell me three names that you are confident are town. if you had to bank the game on three names being town right now, which names would you pick?
    SPF
    Phi
    Hally, Roro, or MR and I can't really decide which one until we get closer to EOD
    Isn't this what you guys call player salad @Sloonei? He calls hally a top town but he hasn't really had much to say to them outside of it looks like they are craving interaction in a bad way. we also see the inclusion of 5 names here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1199)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1176)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1175)
    MR
    this is a very spicy read

    tell me more?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1177)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1175)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1157)
    @everyone -

    tell me three names that you are confident are town. if you had to bank the game on three names being town right now, which names would you pick?
    SPF
    Phi
    Hally, Roro, or MR and I can't really decide which one until we get closer to EOD
    talk to me about roro/dobby pls
    answering both of you at the same time:

    MR is playing the same way as the Semis, I think its their style. I put them in my "trust" list bc even thought they are obviously pocketing me, I want to see them alive D2. I saw what D2/D3 MR could do (even without the JOAT stuff) and want to see that come out. I don't think being so flippant and willing to disregard a lot of the game is something an "insecure" wolf would do.

    That said, this is a variable slot. I want to see EOD MR and see where his very blatant pocket on me is attemping to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1178)
    @everyone - second question! (sorry, but bear with me. this is important for my gamesolving)

    let's say that you have a dayvig ability, and you have to kill one player. who would you remove from the game?
    Still Michelle.
    good look wanting to shoot michelle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1209)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#1187)
    before keep reading, here’s a rough idea of where i am as of where i left off:

    spf
    arete
    monkey

    sloonei
    mist
    jay

    dizzy
    shep
    dya

    dobby
    phighter
    jack

    michelle
    radishes
    Re: my gaint wall -> Why is Arete in your top TR?

    Also: what's your take on the Sloonjay situation?
    asks about arete, sloonei, and jimmyjay specifically. kind of a nothing interaction here

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1217)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1173)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#1168)
    @everyone

    Can you guys PLEASE read 1114, 1126, 1141 and 1155 and tell me how you interpret that exchange. Please, it's important for my "sanity."
    micelle seems to be taking it as a scum read and is slightly omgus-ing
    +Shep pts
    second thing that might be considered him looking on my slot favorably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1230)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#1228)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1192)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1178)
    @everyone - second question! (sorry, but bear with me. this is important for my gamesolving)

    let's say that you have a dayvig ability, and you have to kill one player. who would you remove from the game?
    myself

    jokes aside, would say probably michelle?

    if i wanted to go super hero i'd go in between dobby/sloonei, more likely the latter
    I know I asked you about me before, and you said primarily null 425 with some attached words.. How has that evolved? Why would I be a possible hero-shot? Do you feel like I'm anywhere near towncore?

    Also did you see 1161? What are your thoughts on me going from calling you core to having surface-level content and sorta uninvested? Cocky me wants to say this is a remain from sf1 where you got a lot of cred after swapping your read on me and now I'm feeling like your approach towards me has been super funky maybe because of being afraid of missing something like that or something tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1197)
    @Hally i want people to realize is in both ranges and the stuff he was getting wolf read for is stuff he does as a villager
    So this is about Phi - do you have any thoughts as to how you're going to approach reading him? Can I continue the egotrain and ask the same for me? I sort of get the same sentiment from many of you that know me from before, that I'm being middle of the pack/poe read for "his scumgame is pretty identical to his towngame" reasons. Does this automatically mean one is in the PoE if so, because I really don't know how much more genuinity and effort I can put into this game, heart on my sleeve smth smth

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1199)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1176)
    this is a very spicy read

    tell me more?
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1177)
    talk to me about roro/dobby pls
    answering both of you at the same time:

    MR is playing the same way as the Semis, I think its their style. I put them in my "trust" list bc even thought they are obviously pocketing me, I want to see them alive D2. I saw what D2/D3 MR could do (even without the JOAT stuff) and want to see that come out. I don't think being so flippant and willing to disregard a lot of the game is something an "insecure" wolf would do.

    That said, this is a variable slot. I want to see EOD MR and see where his very blatant pocket on me is attemping to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1178)
    @everyone - second question! (sorry, but bear with me. this is important for my gamesolving)

    let's say that you have a dayvig ability, and you have to kill one player. who would you remove from the game?
    Still Michelle.
    @Sheppard I probably need to reread your thoughts on Michelle, but what are your thoughts on the exchange we just had? Especially since you both played in SF2. The posts I linked in 1168 that is, plus 1224 with her quoted answer?

    Also you didn't talk to dya about that roro dude
    Answered the roro thing here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1216)


    My b, got caught up with my giant wall and thought I added in the second paragraph ( I write my longer posts in notepad then bring them over. It helps me think)

    Roro/Dobby seems to be genuingly....struggling? It looks like they are in agony but that can be faked. I mentioned earlier on that they are much more serious this game and I'm not sure what to do with that yet. I need to get a better grip on them but GTH, like with MR, I want to see them make it to d2 and see what D2!Roro looks like this game.

    Since I hate making hard town reads, I viewed this list as "who do I want to carry into the next day for sure, and which slots do I NOT want to lynch today".


    I agree. That interaction sux. Its bad. It's not how t!michelle plays.

    The big quoted awnser is totally defensive. It only defends, it doesn't solve. The T!Michelle I've seen doesn't just respond, but responds with defense + solve (Even if that 'solve' can be OMGUS-y sometimes).

    I've been tunneled on Michelle for like 400 posts but now I am slightly scared bc now EVERYONE is on the bandwagon and I'm wondering if we're being lead to the wrong path. I its genuing though, as in the push from everyone, because after my initial Michelle pressure there wasn't a lot of "side actors" pushing me further that direction and it only got picked up later.
    talks about michelle some more and why she's wolfy and explains the dobby read while giving himself room to hedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1257)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1255)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1251)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1248)
    I would say both but the post count tell is more noticeable (most of her posts tend to be on the shorter side regardless of her alignment IME)
    Is it NAI for Mist to deny the Shep homework?
    at the very least I don't think it's scum AI? GTH she's more likely to do it as a villager
    and what about their low post count this game?
    pushing mist based on post count

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1279)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1277)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1275)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1274)
    i mean maybe?

    i'd like to see if they consider the possibility that that's what they're doing and if not why/how not
    well you think that theyre looking for a reason to scumread you, right? is that not indicative of a scum mindset fypov?
    eh

    it's quite possible they're a villager essentially CHSing with a non-consensus read

    i was guilty of that myself in my qualifier
    I questioned Arete about you bc that was the pre-game relationship I discovered after the Arete research (which gave me a decent townlean on Arete for now). When I did the Dya post, I had a similiar train of questions back and forth with Roro & Hally about the meta of the others in that trio since Dya was gone. If Dya was there, I would have asked about Roro/Hally.

    This pattern will continue as long as I keep doing these posts until I find the wolves, at which point its time to worldbuild/etc. from the info we get.
    explains his process

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1287)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1285)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1281)
    hally and phighter are the only players who i would say aren't really getting any scrutiny where they should be, and I think phighter's is just because he already got a lot early

    so that one name would be hally

    quite frankly i don't think anything that notable has happened in the last 24 hours other than the Michelle wagon starting which is eh

    that said I just checked and apparently we're only 28 hours into the phase so maybe i just have no sense of time???
    Why does Phighter deserve scrutiny? Is there anything that hasn't already been brought up?
    I have Hally as a comfortable town read, but I'm interested in hearing why I should reconsider that read. Wuzzup?
    Everyone deserves scrutiny.
    everyone deserves scrutiny but he doesn't scrutinize everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1329)
    @Hally I'm having trouble cutting up your post to answer your quesitons so here:

    @Sheppard i’m surprised to see radishes and myself so high here. i was under the impression you suspected both of us. what changed?
    I was uncertain on the third spot, but now Arete fills that roll. I'm going to repeat what i said about MR/Roro in that slot in that you being there is me saying "I want to see d2 hally". I keep hearing you have "pure" vibes from people but I haven't seen the investigation kick in yet. I'm curious to see where it goes, but I do have serious doubts about you since I haven't seen enough yet.

    @Sheppard i’ve explained already re: arete. essentially, i find their energy and the way in which they’re poking at things to be a lot like their town play in sf3
    How do you feel about Arete's respones to my line of Mist questions?
    he still doesn't explain how someone in his top town is someone he had as a wolf read. top town to him means " i want to see your play tomorrow"? I mean come on this guy has an excuse for everything and it's usually this bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1355)
    I was feeling bad about my Michelle SR when everybody was jumping on the wagon, but after all these "ISOs" and people switching off I actually feel...better about my read? Still on an strong SR.
    good look staying on the michelle wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1372)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#1370)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1284)
    JJJ you've done a lot of work and a lot of ISOs to have this many positive responses. Who are your SRs and are you going to ISO them as well?
    @Sheppard

    When I begin an ISO review I don't tend to have a clear preconception of what my read will be; indeed, I avoid that as much as I can. So the results you've seen just reflect the directions my thoughts have taken. I wouldn't call the Jack review "positive" though.

    It is my intention to ISO absolutely every player. If I can get through a couple now before I go to sleep I may be able to finish tomorrow. As for my mafia reads, that may be hashed out with greater clarity as I continue to work on these. Until then I'll refer you to my last reads list: 1016.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Let's ISO Michelle

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#618)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#19)
    1. Link at least 3 scum and 3 town games if you have them (or as many as you can if you don't have enough)

    2. List the other players here you have played with before, the amount of times, and which alignments you had (t/t, w/t, w/w). If you link the games you get Shep points
    1. My games are in the DB and they are a ton - anyone can pick what they want to be checked. DB on mobile can be accessed by visiting the player (view profile) and press the link view player data https://www.mafiauniverse.com/databa...fia%20Universe

    2. I played with everyone except SPF and i didn't make a statistic of games. I played the most with Chemist, Phighter and Jack and the less with you, Monkey, Hally - one game. For everyone else I have different levels of meta observed at first hand but i will not do a meta dive except is really needed.

    From your games i see you have experience as t/t with everyone you played with, how do you expect the meta you have to help you catch scum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#22)
    So, how long did it take you all to figure out what your first post should be?
    this was not addressed at me but i will answer at it
    Not much, my homesite is well known for RPing by strict rules in a ninja-like world. I wanted to present this tbh
    Also being Naruto is tempting
    [IMAGE SNIPPED]


    The first thing I notice is that Michelle saw fit to answer Sheppard's questionnaire in her efforts to catch up. That's whatever on its own power, but what's more noteworthy to me are the timestamps. Her first post came at 7:03 PM EDT. She posted some generic greetings in 113 and then went to sleep. She returned at 1:12 AM EDT with 600 posts already in the thread and made four posts (the second of which is quoted above) to 2:01 AM EDT.

    One of them was spent on a questionnaire. That strikes me as busy work. Then there was brief, vague chatter at Radishes in 622, mention of real life obligations in 633, and another relatively empty post in 638. She then left for work and made her next post about eight hours later around 10:00 AM EDT.

    I say all that to suggest that her first foray into catching up was uninspired

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#751)
    I am still at work and came to read the thread, back where i was this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#39)
    yeah
    I noted I read on G6 that SPF voted herself to obtain reactions from players

    Is this kind of answer in the same train of thoughts, and if it is, it is AI for you to do this? @staypositivefriend
    What did you learn from it?

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#42)
    no and it feel $%#!ing AWESOME
    i like this answer tbh, it's simple and I hope is pure


    This is extracted from a larger multi-quote post. These are surface takes/questions and don't move me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#751)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#43)
    you heard it here first, I'm lock town.

    (Playing on MU has taught me that all you have to do is say you're lock town and it's true, so now it's double true, since someone else said it.)
    MU hard town claims are going both ways, btw, so i won't take this at face value but also feels like Monkey is very confident of herself. +1
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#44)
    Dizzy is already a town read. That Hally comment looked real.
    Peeking further at JJJs Iso in P#60 and P#104 'I am not talking about their ability to reach each other accurately. I am talking about Dyslexicon noticing immediately the absence of Hally and poking them for it. Dizzy is probable to see that before anyone else and consider it worth saying.'
    Was that post a thing that Dizzy would never say as mafia? Asking from curiosity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#45)
    You already did, friend.
    ok so all i quoted after the heart emote Dizzy posted vanished :/ old bug strikes again

    but nice confidence from Dizzy, noted the TR for Jack at his second post.
    @Dizzy, is Jack still a town read for you?

    P#50 - when this happened, for Monkey to get away as wolf? and lol i get if you are wary of Sloonei but P#67 says you are upset by a loss of 8 years ago? Btw I think his playstyle changed over years, why is useful to talk about so old games?


    i am at P#83

    Question for the lot, since I don't know some of you:

    So which one of these pre-fabicated posts is mafia and why?

    I have my pick(s), but curious to hear yours.
    I made a pre-written post because at 2 am i have 10% brain power and i can't play after a full monday work day and just 3 hours of sleep. I feel you could know this about me after so many games we played, but maybe you don't pay attention at people's schedule. Each mash when i am ITA-ed because i don't play enough d1 should tell you something when I am flipping villager in almost all. This is not an excuse, is a fact


    Same post as the previous point, split so it isn't super huge. The general trend is the same -- Michelle hits on some pretty generic points. The +1 to monkey for claiming town doesn't look particularly authentic to me. Nor does the "nice" given to Dizzy for town reading Jack. Reads that look fake aren't good.

    The comment at the bottom about 2 AM and 10% brain power strikes me as some kind of tangent of the coffee tell. This is the first time I have ever implemented anything related to the coffee tell in a read. What a world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#755)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#104)
    I am not talking about their ability to reach each other accurately. I am talking about Dyslexicon noticing immediately the absence of Hally and poking them for it. Dizzy is probable to see that before anyone else and consider it worth saying.

    This game is simple folks. Find seven townies not named YOU. I don't care if I sound like a broken record from previous games. It's easy, it works, and on two occasions it sweeps. I'm starting immediately.
    @JaggedJimmyJay honest answer needed, but not expected if you are not villager:
    I think the bolded is Lamist, what do you think?
    Considering the game is easy when in this game are playing so many players for whom wolfing is as easy as breathing, isn't this a wine you are serving itt for townies?


    This question is pretty weak. I came in full-bravado promoting my strategy, and it inspires the obvious question -- "is it really that easy?"

    To turn it into "Lamist" and "serving wine itt for townies" looks absolutely fake to me. Bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1075)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#798)
    Price for most underwhelming for me so far goes to Michelle. I know they are busy probably, but I haven't seen any reason to think town. So

    ##Vote Michelle
    I am not busy 'probably', i am rl busy with work and family. Sue me.
    You make me think at the Syndicate game where being busy like that you put me in the Poe and made from me the lylo miselim
    I would like more details from you, except things like Michelle is underwhelming, let's lynch her, because in this moment you are pressing the most obvious easy to push slot and even if i didn't intend to do this, my low activity may become a reaction test, to see who is jumping on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#956)
    ##Vote Michelle

    Where you at?

    Come play.
    Eternally catching up

    I need some time to read, i have some time to play until i fell asleep, is midnight but i want to make a little progress

    From the top of my head from what i read, i liked an idea that Phighter was posting in P#769 (i bookmarked it) where he talked about day one bussing as being not probable and idk if he would post such things as wolf. Also meta wise i think I may read Phighter (did it in few games, but not always in day 1 tbh) and i will make a read while i am catching up.

    I thought that Jay would try to be the most vocal player no matter AI and so he is. I refuse to meta read him, the only thing that may show scum!Jay is scum agenda. I saw him playing exactly like town being scum so the way he is leading the town core is not a town!Jay tell for me.

    I liked Monkey from our short interaction, i felt as towny the way she was explaining that the early game interactions were jokes instead accepting a read based on them.

    Jack was so fluffy at Sod and all i remember is Dizzy's TR on him. Idk, for me didn't look as AI

    for the rest i need to read more


    The main reason I suggested Michelle and Jack are compatible was that she has repeatedly invoked his name when it doesn't seem relevant in context. The bolded bit is one example but there are others. That isn't a huge deal right now, but consider it later if you get there and I'm dead.

    These reads generally again don't look authentic to me. Phighter seems town because he talked about bussing? That's hard to believe. The comment about me is a nothingburger. The monkey read is fine I guess. I don't know what it is. There's not much depth to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1084)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#1058)
    No, that would just be my first instinct if Phighter is mafia.

    ~~~

    ##Vote Michelle

    I'm going to roast on this for a bit.

    I am a bit frustrated by the game (primarily my place in it) and need to spend some time away from it to reclaim my good vibes. I still think we're doing okay folks, so keep chopping wood. The quest for The Seven is progressing well enough, and if we can manage that then everything else is irrelevant. Forgive my grumping townies, I still love you.

    Reiterating my eight-player town group as of right this moment: Arete, Hally, SPF, monkey, Phighter, Sloonei, Chemist, Sheppard
    ##Vote JaggedJimmyJay

    I didn-t notice from you a question, anything to make me observe you want for real to read my AI.


    I don't care about OMGUS. This vote does her no favors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1114)
    So you think i came home at 11 pm and started to play just because someone scum read me? Opportunistic from you, sir.
    'Michelle also was pretty uncomfortable in that game' - can you explain?
    You talk about heat, i have yet to read about this. Details would be appreciated.tyvm!
    Side note: this is not Semis2 and games are never identical. Do you play the same in all games?


    This was in response to Dobby voicing concerns about her within a larger reads list. The bolded thing is a bit ugly at face value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1125)
    Mindmeld with Arete, i noticed that too, i am curious about Jack's answer


    Jack again. Regardless of the potential for association, this post looks like feigned involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1141)
    I think taking meta as excuse to push someone who is busy is a good way to discredit them.
    I am not a player of just the last few games, and you simplify my playstyle quoting from the scumchat of the other game and say i am insecure and such.
    Also i believe all that i am posting, saying i don't believe my own words is too much of a strech, and i wonder why are you saying this..
    Do you want to make me feel guilty for posting when i am top wagon like is something i should not do in that moment? Like is scummy to defend myself?
    'However, having a mindset like the one you conveyed about that game, can in fact be translated into other games imo.'
    You can keep streching things, translation is an interpretation in other language of something who often looks totally different.
    Maybe your words are too carefully chosen to match your own story here.
    What is your mindset Roro?


    This is again in response to Dobby. I trim posts because I hate it when they're enormous, so click for yourself for proper context if you like. This commentary strikes me as dramatic. I bolded some portions that read off to me. I acknowledge that I don't entirely follow the intended message in this post and there is potential for a language barrier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle (#1148)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#1132)
    I haven't asked you questions. I don't view that as a prerequisite to place a vote.

    We've been here many times before, Michelle. I play a POE game, and it drives you nuts, but you have seen it more than once. I have specifically voted for you in the past purely because I don't town read you. Your return vote is hard to take seriously. Am I mafia? Is there a reason that I should view you as town? Who are your top suspects?
    Maybe not for a vote, but for a read is the same?

    I am searching for answers by myself.
    Your Poe lost a game, i will never forget that and i am still salty thinking back at it.
    I remember i explained you more than once how Poe is just a tool, not the only one you need though. I know, you said in a motivational way that Poe won for you 2 games until now in this setup.
    Wasn't Poe your help when you were scum? Should i insta read you villager just because you play the game in your own style?

    I will post reads in the morning, letting things marinate overnight.

    I need to sleep though, is more than 2 am.


    Michelle said she voted for me because she wanted to talk to me. That's fine in theory. This is what came of that though, and it doesn't move me. It's a general complaint about POE (she and I have argued about that in past games) and a generic WIFOM question about the strategy not making me town. It doesn't make me mafia either. The vote doesn't seem justified by these answers.

    She responds at length to Dobby concerns in 1186 and I struggle to follow the thread of their discussion. It's a bit goofy that Michelle seems to be suggesting that Dobby should consider himself to be less qualified to assess her meta than she is -- as if he must take her assessment of herself at face value instead of his own read. If I interpret this stuff correctly.


    ~~~

    Conclusion

    Michelle is a high suspect. I don't like much in this ISO and I dislike plenty -- and the number of concerns is striking given the brevity of the post history. I find myself struggling to believe her reads are real often enough that it's a bit jarring. Add that to a general perception that she is struggling to measure up to her town standard and you have an explanation for my current vote.
    I agree with your conclusion, but it is a bit weird to me that after i point out you have mostly milquetoast conclusions your next post is an ISO of the person I sus the most, and then say you agree with me. That just feels like a half attempt at pocketing and the best way to correct what I pointed out
    ive noticed this a few times w/ shep - that he's being pocketed. not sure why he thinks that as often as he does

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1423)
    I need to start saving post count a bit more so I'll reply to multiple things here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1358)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#1348)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1335)
    Believe me, I love needling you. I just think you’re town. Best I can give ya is picking your brain and trying to help you see me.
    Tell me Jay's towntells.
    He leads the town without showing agenda. When we catch a wolf, he dives in and does massive interactive analysis. He’ll do this as a wolf too but as town, he shows vigor and points to the other wolves. Like, I’ve seen him find a wolf D1 and then find the other two wolves D2.

    Jay is only hard to read before a wolf flips and there’s a serious attitude and agenda difference from a rare town Jay that has lead the town to ruin by mistake and a wolf a Jay that has done the same on purpose.
    This is the first Jack take I have actually liked - and the one that contributes the most to gamesolve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1368)
    for what it's worth dobby, this is our first game together and I am enjoying your presence. you're a darn good elf.

    Let's do this now:
    ##Vote Chemist1422
    What do you think about the Arete/Chemist question thread from a few pages ago? Did that sway this decision at all?

    I really want to learn more about this vote as Mist was a scumlean for me early on but now I'm less sure (and more focused on other targets)

    This isn't the first time Roro's "Macro" has come up as sus and I'm just not meta-aware of forum play to get what this means. What exactly is the "macro" that's off? A lack of direction/flow/etc.?

    For me the part that's off is the anxious/pained posting that just doesn't seem that real (Sorry Roro I feel really bad if it is )
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1374)
    Dobby Iso (attempt 2 since I accidentally lost the first draft )

    P#76 + P#89 feel genuine, I read that more as town who's confused about wtf JJJ is doing than as scum trying to discredit townreads

    P#375 'I'm going to throw out questions at everyone and I'm going to try to make people feel uncomfortable when we've got more to go on, because that's part of what made us struggle in that game.' - @roro__b how has that approach been reflected in your play? (like, obviously you've been asking people questions, but I feel like there's ?some sort of gap? between what you were describing and the actual substance of your questions)

    I initially thought the last sentence of P#536 was a 1610 joke and given that apparently it is not that (?) I'm kind of confused about what prompted Dobby to write it

    ----
    above this line is sloppily-reconstructed thoughts from before I lost my post

    kind of feel like I'm mindmelding with some of his thoughts around JJJ

    P#811 is ... definitely a post. honestly it manages to say impressively little?

    P#924 (+ P#940) feels like real anger in a way that I find villagery. although apparently per P#982 it's fakeable?

    P#1097 I have ... multiple concerns about this post.

    1.) A lot of the reads here are hedges. 'Sloonei is a tough one ... There's definitely a world where I've been wrong about him, and I've been softening up to the thought, but either way, he's PoE for me,' 'I felt really good at points, but like, they've been questioning me and expressing doubt on a lot of things that I've answered,' 'I... dont know what to think of him. Is in my PoE for obvious reasons, but peeling everything I've already written, off, I'm left wondering if he'd have the cojones to play d1 out like he's done here as wolf,' 'Is probably (high) PoE-tier right now, despite me liking their start tbh,' 'I like how invested he's been today, not being scared of playing his game. I still don't like that his stuff can really be seen as pointless/busywork.' I'm not really left with much sense of where Dobby actually stands on any of these people.

    The other issue I have is that some of his statements at the end, e.g.


    So in a world where Sloonei/Jay/Jack are town, I'm looking at a world with possibly Michelle/MR/Sheppard/Dya/Hally/Dizzy as scum.


    I think Sloonei as scum cements a PoE where Jay and Jack are included, but I think with one of those two flipping scum, the other one is cleared. I feel a lot better on Jay being scum here than Jack atp. That PoE in full would probably include (and I haven't done a ton of thinking here..) Sloonei -> Jay -> (jack if jay town)-> Hally -> Michelle -> Dya -> MR -> (shepp if mr scum) -> Dizzy maybe? Antoher snap tinfoil thought would be that there's actually compatibility between Heymonkey and Jay, considering monkey's tone towards Jay.
    feel like he's trying to plan several days ahead in a sort of 'after we elim Villger A, let's go elim Villager B' way (some of his specific comments feel like he's trying to chain miselims). There's lowkey a part of me that wants to read it as TWTBAW but I don't think I want to put a lot of stock in that.

    P#1168 kind of feels like a 'townie who's actually found something'


    Overall conclusions

    Overall, there are some micro things that ping me villagery, but on a macro level there are a lot of things that ping me, more than I was expecting coming into this Iso -- a lot of his reads feel fakeable and there are parts where I get the impression he's trying to push for chain miselims. Dobby is a scumlean for me at the moment.



    My reads have changed enough that its time to post a new list:


    Least Scum

    Arete

    SPF, HM

    Phi, Dizzy

    Hally, Mist

    Radish, Sloonei

    JJJ, Roro

    Jack

    Michelle

    Most Scum


    Take-Aways:

    Slots I really want to solve because I'm not liking how much null/maybe stuff I have going on (how do you NOT tinfoil d1??? impossible for me.): Dizzy, Hally, Mist

    Three I don't feel like I have a solid enough grasp on except "vaguely towny" - and even then a lot of that might be biased by what I'm hearing other people say about them. Dizzy gets a bit of a boost bc I've played with them before and feel more confident that over time I will be able to develop a bit more of a read on them.

    I think Radish, Roro will self-resolve by either EOD or sometime mid D2 and then I'll know better what to do with them. JJJ is a "maybe" self-solver if the claim about post-flip town!JJJ is true.
    why did you think roro and radish would self resolve, shep?

    also hally went from kind of wolfy to top town to middle of the pack for shep and all of it without much discussion of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1427)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1423)

    Take-Aways:

    Slots I really want to solve because I'm not liking how much null/maybe stuff I have going on (how do you NOT tinfoil d1??? impossible for me.): Dizzy, Hally, Mist

    These* Three (Dizzy, Hally, Mist) I don't feel like I have a solid enough grasp on except "vaguely towny" - and even then a lot of that might be biased by what I'm hearing other people say about them. Dizzy gets a bit of a boost bc I've played with them before and feel more confident that over time I will be able to develop a bit more of a read on them.

    I think Radish, Roro will self-resolve by either EOD or sometime mid D2 and then I'll know better what to do with them. JJJ is a "maybe" self-solver if the claim about post-flip town!JJJ is true.
    To expand a bit on this: I'm developing a bit of an early game plan for myself and want to share my process here.

    My POE is to resolve the bottom slots that I didn't comment on. First Michelle, who I still haven't seen a single major change in play from except a couple "digging" moments when goaded into it. Maybe I'm wrong? Did I tunnel? I feel like I'm starting to tinfoil myself here. Then Jack, then Sloonei (skipping JJJ,Roro, Radish under the "self-resolve" hope). This POE is extremely fragile and subject to change upon any major scumslip, town/scum flip, etc.

    The "three" (Dizzy, Hally, Mist) I think can be temporarily resolved through gameplay over the next 12 hours or so - and I'm really hoping for some solid progression on my reads for these 3 as they are the least set in stone (in a list full of VERY not set in stone reads). Willing to re-examine on an unexpected flip though.
    wanting to focus on michelle is fine. but then we kind of see a rule of three-like post with hally's name in it

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1431)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#1426)


    I agree with your conclusion, but it is a bit weird to me that after i point out you have mostly milquetoast conclusions your next post is an ISO of the person I sus the most, and then say you agree with me. That just feels like a half attempt at pocketing and the best way to correct what I pointed out
    this is the second time sheppard has responded to someone who is clearly taking his side with skepticism. i said this the first time i saw him do it but i want to reiterate that this feels like a really odd line for him to take as scum. he doesn’t seem to be trying to form alliances or pocket anyone in the way i expect scum would. instead he’s actively keeping even people who tr him and/or agree with his reads at arms length and seems actively combative to any posts he feels might be trying to appease him

    what do people think of this? is this sort of thing consistent with his town play from previous rounds?
    Posts like this drive me crazy bc I come from such a different meta (IRL los angeles WW) that this play is pretty natural - especially in other games we play like Avalon where a "buddy" can be one of the most dangerous things that hapepns to you. Its like weird that people question this. Not wrong, but weird to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#1425)
    my last post of the day just to say: Shep, that reads post speaks to my heart and I really love your three groupings at the bottom and your potentials. That whole post just really... feels good to me, I don't know what else to say. I agree with much of it and I like how you seem to be getting there.

    but you left dya off. maybe I missed something?
    Ah crap you're right. Sorry its hard in a game with this many players, I thought I just went down the list and added them all.

    Dya is basically in the smack dab middle of "null" for me still. They just haven't posted enough. If we get to EOD and I don't see more posts - then I'm going to have to move from "null" to "policy scumlean" for the lack of posting (my IRL meta has taught me to target quiet people). Its a spot that I'm not even sure how to approach resolving yet other than hope for more posts and eventually park a vote there if the posts never come (but I am sympathetic to the IRL circumstances - those seem very real).[/QUOTE]

    still a null read for them on d1. unless i dont post enough and then im scum. this is a guy just looking for a reason to wolf read me.

    the response to hally had such potential because of how hally worded it, etc - it almost felt like a reason to push but then shep's response makes it as stale as most of his other interactions with them

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1434)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1428)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#1421)
    at the moment this is essentially where i’m at with everyone too. a point of disagreement i have is with radishes. when he is town i feel i can find him early even if he doesn’t post a lot, but so far i haven’t felt it. but the point you raise that he would maybe be more accommodating as scum and less abrasive is a good one. i don’t know. i’m just waiting for some solving from him that makes me feel something, because atm all i really have is conjecture about how he would or wouldn’t play from this position as scum and i don’t really feel confident putting much stock in that over actual content

    i also want to talk about dya. i had them as null but they’re sort of trending down lately in the sense that i don’t really get what they’re doing or if they’re actually solving. i’m just finding it hard to see their thought process behind the things they say or how they’re getting their reads. and i kind of expect that if they were town i would be able to see their thought process better and would agree with more of their takes, because i have tended to agree with them a lot when they’re town in the past and i haven’t this game outside of their top tr’s. but i’m reluctant to press them because they’re recovering from surgery and i think that’s probably affecting their ability to get into the game regardless of their alignment. i just don’t want to make their life harder right now...

    i also have been having a hard time getting what sheppard is doing. his way of viewing the game and a lot of the posts he makes strike me as odd, but i don’t think that’s scummy for him really. iirc i had a similar reaction when watching him in the previous rounds and all the people who played with him in sf2 seem fully convinced this is his town game, so i feel i should go with that

    i’m somewhere like here now:

    spf
    arete
    monkey

    sloonei
    mist
    jay
    dizzy
    shep

    dobby
    phighter
    dya

    radishes
    jack
    michelle

    that's an interesting point about radishes. have you ever seen him play so abrasively as either alignment? is this type of laid-back/casual attitude typical of his playstyle?


    i feel similarly about dya in that i dont want to make their life harder either, but it's really tough for me to cut them slack when so many of their posts feel scummy to me. i feel like i'm bordering on bullying dya with how hard im pressuring them and i dont like doing that - but i really just want to see more. i am extremely underwhelmed with their content/posts so far

    also, i am especially interested in hearing your thoughts on dizzy. i know you've had a lot of back and forth with him, but what would you say is the biggest thing keeping you from confidently tr'ing him right now?
    I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I will say this was pretty much the MR from semis to a T. To really tell what is up will come the closer we get to EOD/D2 and if MR makes the same pivot they did in the Semis (which would be hard to fake, especially with how well the gamesolve turned out to be). I don't trust MR but I think they will self-resolve as stated earlier.
    more shroop

    also more of him self-resolving

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1436)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1432)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1416)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#1412)
    ...no

    I have reasons to think that they aren't necessarily a wolf but I don't have reasons to think they're a villager

    huh
    Can you elaborate on this?
    it's like

    the fact that they apparently have medical stuff makes me want to give them more leeway for what would otherwise be a super underwhelming Iso

    but that doesn't make them a villager, because if they're a wolf they presumably still have medical stuff

    just, a reason I would normally have to scumread them doesn't apply

    I see what you mean - not that far off from what I just posted about Dya.

    It is interesting that you think the Dya OOG stuff is valid, but I take it you don't think the Roro is based on your posts from a few pages ago (and your current vote)? I'm in a simliar boat but I lack any confidence whatsoever in either call and am curious where you are getting the confidence from.
    it almost feels like shep is going out of his way to appease people outside his poe but i might just be in a tunnel for that

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1441)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#1437)
    Come someone who SRs Jack tell me why?

    I was going to follow up my earlier thoughts on Michelle with a similar post on Jack, the other mainstream chop nominee that formed whilst I slept, but forgot what I was going to say and opened up his iso to check. I expected to agree with the consensus that seems to have formed on him being scummy, but...i don't? Like there are definitely posts he made that I think are fakeable. But I kept waiting for something to ping me and nothing did. And there were even a few posts that felt to me as more likely from a town mindset. I'm on phone at work so can't easily quote but I low key cubed with a couple of his posts, or at least the process in them even if I didn't agree.

    So someone give me a sparks notes version of what I should be looking for? When I'm home from work I can quote from his iso a bit.
    Michelle: Look at her interactions with other players and count the defensive vs offensive posts & statements and compare them to D1 with HK and Dizzy in our semis.

    I'm not really good at arguing my reads when they are read-based (like in our game, I didn't really make the points well/at all when I voted for HD pre-revea, speed voted Rosen @EOD, or hammered Daniel). I have a read on Michelle about as strong as the Daniel call at the end of that day (altough that was a 1v1 with Rhand more than an actual call)

    Jack: Look at the nonsense progressions involving sloonei, posts that reply to posts painfully misinterpreting them, & a general lack of town contribution to other players. I need to do a full ISO but having live-read the posts they just seemed so all over the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1438)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1434)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1428)

    that's an interesting point about radishes. have you ever seen him play so abrasively as either alignment? is this type of laid-back/casual attitude typical of his playstyle?


    i feel similarly about dya in that i dont want to make their life harder either, but it's really tough for me to cut them slack when so many of their posts feel scummy to me. i feel like i'm bordering on bullying dya with how hard im pressuring them and i dont like doing that - but i really just want to see more. i am extremely underwhelmed with their content/posts so far

    also, i am especially interested in hearing your thoughts on dizzy. i know you've had a lot of back and forth with him, but what would you say is the biggest thing keeping you from confidently tr'ing him right now?
    I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I will say this was pretty much the MR from semis to a T. To really tell what is up will come the closer we get to EOD/D2 and if MR makes the same pivot they did in the Semis (which would be hard to fake, especially with how well the gamesolve turned out to be). I don't trust MR but I think they will self-resolve as stated earlier.
    as someone who did not read master's semi game, could you give me some more context? did he start out trolling and antagonizing other players and then do a heel turn toward the EOD where he gamesolved a lot?
    Yes, basically I was in the seat of Roro that game. I was pissed off at MRs playstyle - he taunted us all day, talked about not reading, then came in and tried really hard to townlead at EOD after not posting for most of it.

    Then D2 he, as a JOAT, gave the winning strat + correctly identified and pocketed 3 people who were all town.
    mr asks for jack info so shep takes the opportunity to tell him about michelle. then we get that jack case which is that he's misinterpreting things, lack of town contribution, and a poor progression on sloonei. what he never addresses is why these things are wolfy. misinterpreting things when replying is probably less likely to come from a wolf. town can sometimes also have poor progression. and lack of town contribution seems to just be how jack plays the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1693)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#1455)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1434)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1428)

    that's an interesting point about radishes. have you ever seen him play so abrasively as either alignment? is this type of laid-back/casual attitude typical of his playstyle?


    i feel similarly about dya in that i dont want to make their life harder either, but it's really tough for me to cut them slack when so many of their posts feel scummy to me. i feel like i'm bordering on bullying dya with how hard im pressuring them and i dont like doing that - but i really just want to see more. i am extremely underwhelmed with their content/posts so far

    also, i am especially interested in hearing your thoughts on dizzy. i know you've had a lot of back and forth with him, but what would you say is the biggest thing keeping you from confidently tr'ing him right now?
    I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I will say this was pretty much the MR from semis to a T. To really tell what is up will come the closer we get to EOD/D2 and if MR makes the same pivot they did in the Semis (which would be hard to fake, especially with how well the gamesolve turned out to be). I don't trust MR but I think they will self-resolve as stated earlier.
    can you explain what you think is so similar about radishes compared to sf2? i remember town reading him pretty much right away from spec chat but i haven’t been able to do that yet here. he doesn’t strike me as similar beyond his general vibe which i would say is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell. but you were actually in the game, so maybe your perception is different. what do you think i’m missing?
    I want to clarify still: its not that I TR Radish, in fact I hated his posts after my comments here. I just think he will resolve without me getting mad at his flippant playstyle again. It's not worth the time of town to get mad at it since it won't change his behavior.

    That said, the closer we get to EOD without Radish gears turning the more sus I become of him
    feels the need to clarify his read on mr. even dismisses the flippant playstyle he apparently dislikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1697)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1500)
    ##Vote Michelle

    Most viable chop under null on my readlist. Continued support of my townread on Sloonei. Will trigger Phighter for a laugh.

    Over under is 3 people saying they hate this vote.
    This feels like just an early self-pres vote.
    shep finds any reason to push jack as well. even when jack is pushing what we now know is a wolf and someone that shep suspected

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1710)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1638)
    jacknotes since he kinda fell out of my radar and I wanted to go over his ISO again
    -P#50 implies focus on monkey and sloonei
    -P#73 paranoia on phighter
    -P#272 townlean on jay, paranoia/townread on dizzy
    -P#280 avoidance reading me
    -P#325 paranoia/townread on sloonei - contradicts 50, but only sort of
    -P#463 expands on sloonei townread, P#481 explains approach
    -P#729 / P#731 mentions issues with Phighter
    -P#978 lists PoE - need to check context on this
    -P#1163 expresses strong townreads on sloonei/me/monkey
    -P#1289 townreads MR
    -P#1331 ISOs michelle, comes up null
    -P#1500 votes michelle
    -P#1635 pushing people to join michelle wagon

    @Jackofhearts2005
    I know you're near post limit but can you explain your current reads on Michelle and myself and give your current reads on dizzy and dya?
    this is the first Mist post I suuuper like, but it only came after Jack voted Michelle and that makes me sus.
    and tries here to tie mist to michelle. this is acting like tmi, like he knows michelle will flip wolf no matter what. he's using what looks like tmi to "solve" the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1717)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1712)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1710)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#1638)
    jacknotes since he kinda fell out of my radar and I wanted to go over his ISO again
    -P#50 implies focus on monkey and sloonei
    -P#73 paranoia on phighter
    -P#272 townlean on jay, paranoia/townread on dizzy
    -P#280 avoidance reading me
    -P#325 paranoia/townread on sloonei - contradicts 50, but only sort of
    -P#463 expands on sloonei townread, P#481 explains approach
    -P#729 / P#731 mentions issues with Phighter
    -P#978 lists PoE - need to check context on this
    -P#1163 expresses strong townreads on sloonei/me/monkey
    -P#1289 townreads MR
    -P#1331 ISOs michelle, comes up null
    -P#1500 votes michelle
    -P#1635 pushing people to join michelle wagon

    @Jackofhearts2005
    I know you're near post limit but can you explain your current reads on Michelle and myself and give your current reads on dizzy and dya?
    this is the first Mist post I suuuper like, but it only came after Jack voted Michelle and that makes me sus.
    what issue do you have with the timing of it?
    My issue will come after one of a few different flips, when we can estimate if this is genuine or is it making Jack into a lightning rod

    I also sr Jack btw.


    Michelle has made 1 michelle post this game (the one about you). There's a long way to go before I'm sold on anyone else tbh.
    like mist asked about the timing of it and sheppard told her that he sr jack and that the issue of the timing will become apparent later. it seems like the issue was he thought mist was pushing at jack because she was aligned with michelle. why couldn't that be discusses? if it were a suspicion, i think it could. if it were based in tmi, i dont think it could

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1725)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1721)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1719)
    I don't get how to solve sloonei. I have a plan for most of the people I'm working to solve, then I have my townleans and scum reads. But sloonei?

    What do I do with this? I have no clue.
    Hello I am here, how can I help?
    I'm not sure. I'm ISOing you as soon as I get back to my desk. Did you send me games? I don't have access to my notes on my phone.

    It seems like everyone else is also confused about this.

    I think my takeaway right now is that we can't afford to send you to LYLO but idk what else to do.


    Random thoughts posted here to save postcount:

    Dya stock is moving up in the latter half of today. Mist likely going to move up on my list as well. Phi is down a bit but we will see.

    I'm hesitant on Jack bc Jack is at postcap. IRL meta says dont d1 kill people who are super active.

    Jay is...a slot. I think that slot is not as secure town as they think it is.

    I need to reread my top 3 SPF, HM, Arete. I dont like how locktown they are by either myself or most people. I'm paranoid someone is slipping by.
    so now I'm moving up for reasonss not shared as is mist. but phi wolfier and jack is...at postcap so he wont push there today. this might be one of his more honest posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1766)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1759)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1755)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei;4318779 [MENTION=773
    Sloonei have you seen jjj wolf recently? did you catch him? how accurate are you on reading him?
    We were recently wolves on opposite teams in a multiball game on our homesite. We both caught each other early on, but acted like we town-read each other for several days.

    Also I had forgotten about this game when compiling my list for Shep. So @Sheppard Here is another link to a more recent scum game for me. Note that this game featured two mafia teams, however, so my play was adapted to that format.
    i can't recall if you've responded to me about my jjj concerns (sorry if you have just on strong meds) but what are your thoughts on it
    Hey Dya what's your current take on SPF?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1771)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#1770)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1656)
    TORN (give X another day)
    Phighter - There are compelling reasons to scumread and townread him. I’m not super worried about potential scumPhighter being in a winning position after this D1.
    jack, can you talk about this read more? what are the compelling reasons to tr and sr phighter, in your opinion? and what do you mean when you say scum!phighter won’t be in a winning position after this day? what is that based on?

    Why are you asking someone at Postcap to explain themselves?
    a little biting reply to hally for pinging jack. and like this would look great if he didnt like...never mention it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1788)
    ##Vote roro__b
    votes dobby

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1795)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1789)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1766)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#1759)
    i can't recall if you've responded to me about my jjj concerns (sorry if you have just on strong meds) but what are your thoughts on it
    Hey Dya what's your current take on SPF?
    currently think they are town but a weaker read than of hally for instance. i think she's also wrong on a couple of her reads but not for lack of trying
    I'm re-examining my townreads in light of recent things and I get a weird vibe from SPF's progression on you. Especially early on when they never responded after you answered their questions.

    Nothing solid here just going noting this now.
    another shroop

    shades spf a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1800)
    ##Vote JaggedJimmyJay
    this is where he started voting all over the place

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1805)
    ##Vote Hally

    We're in the final 4 hour stretch. Where is your vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1810)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#1809)
    Michelle

    I've admittedly yet to iso her, but...yeah, man, she feels different from the Michelle I've played with before. I've never seen her scum, but she feels more hesitant here than I remember her being. It's not her omgusing (she does that as either alignment) or any particular lack of content (she has some), it's just her overall tone as being too appeasing and her presence level being lower than I'd expect. It's also her reaction to being the top wagon, which is...less existant than I'd expect. I'd expect her to have more fightback, scumreading her accusers and such. I feel like she's going through the motions and trying to appease people instead.

    My biggest hesitation is simply that you could say a lot of the same things about me, and so maybe IRL is just taking a toll on a few of us. Michelle is a strong townie and may just need time to warm up.

    But I lack other firm scumreads and think this may just be a hit.
    MR continues the attempted Sheppard pocket by ctl+F on a sheppard ISO for "Michelle" and then posting a summary of that as a new post.
    it's not a pocket, it's a mindmeld. doesnt shep hate those?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1842)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1831)
    ##Vote Michelle

    I am going to work now. I'll do my best to remain around the thread and stay informed, but my activity will be minimal for the remainder of the day. My vote is on Michelle by process of elimination for today, but I think the most substantial angle I have looked at/talked about is the "narrative" about myself earlier in the day. Shep brought up the possibility that it was being "pushed" nefariously by some bad actors, but on investigation I felt like the evidence pointed to the opposite of that. If this is an angle that interests anyone, I encourage you to look into it. It may not be meaningful to others who do not know or are uncertain of my alignment, unfortunately. I also have not given much consideration to what it means about Shep himself.

    @Hally @JaggedJimmyJay your thoughts on this would be groovy if you could spare them. Hally because they've already commented on my investigation into this as a good look for me, and Jay because I assume he would trust me enough to give this real consideration.
    Is this an actual concern of yours or a quasi-OMGUS after I skimmed your games and found that you're in wolf range?

    Narratives get pushed all the time - its why I'm currently a little tinfoily about both SPF and Michelle "consensus" even though one is my top Scum and the other is one of my top Town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1825)
    @Sheppard why did you choose to look at my scum games first?
    I'm actually in danger of postcap??? $%#! I guess I really need to conserve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#1813)
    Chemist
    I'd yet to consider her much but did a quick glance at her iso today. I was sort of feeling the slot could be the type that was getting ignored based on early tone and such.

    There are a few posts I liked, but I think the biggest factor that makes me scumread her now is that I've played twice with her, both times as a wolf against v!Chem, and both times saw her as a potential mischop. In the first (practice game pre-champs) I helped lead a mischop based on nitpicking her iso. In the second (Slep) I was sowing the seeds for something similar before getting caught out myself. I specced SF1 less closely, but she in that felt like a more turned-on version of herself from the aforementioned games.

    Conversely, the one scum game I observed (G1) she was completely different. Admittedly she subbed into a slot that needed saving and all, but there was a huge tonal difference. In Practice Game/Slep she was exactly as she is here - sitting in the background, not afraid to speak up about something even when it's contrarian, general attitude of 'meh, this is what I think' about things, and an iso that can definitely be nitpicked if I really wanted to.

    IMO Chemist is just town. This is a read I could revisit later based on associations and such, but in the mean time, yeah, I'm happy with this slot.
    Mind telling us who you scumlean that isn't Michelle rather than post a consensus scumtake + a medium townlean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1825)
    @Sheppard why did you choose to look at my scum games first?
    I started with them to see what your wolf play looked like - if there was an obvious difference I could think about you less today. I skimmed one of the towns too btw.

    ___

    @Hally @MR

    VOTE


    ___

    Some Other thoughts:

    Michelle->
    I really don't like that the two big Michelle walls were just ISOs on townreads. T!Michelle finds a wolf and sinks their teeth in, I didn't see T!Michelle doing a lot of "townclearing" in our game.

    That said - I am very nervous at the momentum the Michelle push gets outside of a couple outside actors & want to consider more options. Still very likely to just end up here at EOD even if it may be LHF.

    Dizzy->
    Dizzy is playing pretty close to Semis like MR said, except this time the Day1 feels less....certain? More insecure? It's not something tangible but like I said in my very early readlist I have such a hard time reading dizzy and it hurts.

    Hally, Mist ->

    These are the other two in my "Three to solve" category and the progress has been slow. Mist is getting more progress than Hally, but Hally's posts for me have been very "Whatever". Lots of solve but not enough new ideas for me yet. The big thing is going to be interaction analysis on them post-flip today, espeically with Mist as Mist posts are low-wordcount and less info-dense so for me who they are responding to is going to be almost as important as what they respond with.



    For those that missed it please read my post at P#1423 where I outlined my D1 strategy.
    It has changed a bit - especially pending a stronger Dya read and where Phi ends up - but its still mostly my plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1875)
    Going to take care of life stuf for a bit, hopefully we'll be in the 2 hour window of post-cap lifting when I get back.



    let's see if this stirs the pot a bit
    ##Vote roro__b
    pushes back against sloonei saying michelle is not being pushed by bad actors.

    ignores sloonei's question and talks about needing to conserve posts

    seems irate at MR too for talking about why michelle is scum and why mist is town?

    he also only really read sloonei's wolf game to compare it there.

    pushing michelle is still a decent look here

    i dont like that he finds dizzy less certain/more insecure and it prevents him from getting ared tbh. tht usually leads to a v read

    wants to solve hally and mist but hally is "whatever" in their posts and mist is low post count and word count and shep wants to use that to read her.

    somehow this leads to a dobby vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1918)
    post limit is gone hell yeah


    ##Vote Chemist1422
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1944)
    ##Vote staypositivefriend
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1979)
    ##Vote Dyslexicon
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#1993)
    ##Vote Hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2039)
    ##Vote Master Radishes..for relm
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2127)
    I'm at trader joes and the checkout line is literally around the entire store lmao looks like I'm playing the next 20 minutes by mobile

    ##Vote Phighter
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2158)
    ##Vote Jackofhearts2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2224)
    ##Vote Phighter
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2258)
    Okay I'm driving home should be able to be at desktop for last 30 min!

    I think 2 things:

    1. Michelle is likely scum

    2. There are wolves bussing, potentially two

    3. Don't d1 chop people who hit post cap you nerds
    assumes michelle is scum and wolves are bussing. and doesnt want to elim anyone that hit post cap, despite him having concerns about jack, for instance, who had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2295)
    If Michelle flips T where do we go?
    this feels like it's the first time it's felt like he considered this side of the equation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2334)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2302)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2295)
    If Michelle flips T where do we go?
    i don't know why this is a question you're asking when there are multiple people in the thread who are saying michelle is town and giving alternatives
    Those people already TR michelle and have built worlds ftpov about it (including potential wolves trying to direct us knowing it would be a mischop)

    I want to hear from the other people SRing michelle here.
    how does this help you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2365)
    ##Vote Michelle
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2451)
    LEGACY POST

    Readlist

    Towny

    Arete, HM
    SPF,Hally

    Dizzy, MR

    Dya

    Mist

    Jay

    Sloon, Phi

    Roro, Jack

    Michelle

    Wolfy




    TODOS:

    If michelle is chapped and is T for the love of god DO NOT CLEAR PHI.

    Investigate the Dya x SPF interactions early D1 and late D1!

    Go to my post showing peoples games and:

    1. Check Arete's wolf stuff
    2. ISO me and looke up the word "noting" to find all this $%#! I noted for later please.
    3. Fish out Roro's emotions in other pressured scenarios
    so like he's got concerns about hally but they're higher than they were before and Jay is mid tier.

    also like...not sure i like him leaving legacy posts like this d1 because i thought jay was much townier, especially with michelle actually being scum, like shep has been indicating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2471)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#2432)
    it's kind of weird that people are super concerned about Phighter defending Michelle (regardless of her alignment, even) and only vaguely concerned about me defending Michelle

    why is that? is it because I'm not being as aggressive about it? because I'm hedging on the read? because I'm just more townread than he is?
    here's the flowchart I see.


    Phi/Michelle

    W/T: Phi tries to get EZ clear credit since town/his scummates are already mislynching

    W/W: Why would Phi obvious defend like this? That's too obvious for the "best wolf". So obvious I don't even think its WIFOM

    T/T: Phi is just doing his thing and will aggro on to the next set of people, probably those who targeted him for the defen se

    T/W: Phi just messed up and aggro defended a wolf - not sure how to approach/find this world in a d2 scenario but I would belive it if he ends up finding wolves or doing real gamesolve and not busy work down the line
    but phi didn't so shep pushed him later anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2569)
    I'm glad you all got to spend last night preparing walls instead of praying you survive while you try to re-type your notes on the entire game (3132 words baby!)


    @MR not sheeping me at all EOD actually makes me feel a bit better about them and their pretty blatant pocket attempts but I'm still sus
    more about not surviving n1 here. i hate this $%#! because it's sooooo LAMIST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2624)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#2615)


    ^From memory, Sloonei's attitude towards Michelle was maybe a little bit limp? And Sheppard if I'm being harsh, Sheppard was a bit to with consensus on Michelle when he normally hates consensus? These two are probably still both town tbh.
    I was on Michelle for most of the day and then switched my vote off when consensus formed you dweeb.
    this isn't very chill of shep. especially because shep made it clear he wanted michelle elimmed. he switched his vote to almost every player by the end of the day. and told us the whole time how scummy michelle was. i don't think that had anything to do with consensus

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2626)
    Chopping Jack/Phi today is way too easy to actually be correct. Think.
    definitely too easy to be right and already 50% wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2674)
    A LOT OF THOUGHTS AND SOME DYA/SPF TINFOIL JUST-IN-CASE INCLUDED

    This is a NON META READS POST BABYYYYYY (informed by reading their metas though - see also: my Dya post).

    Basically, The Seven Is Not That Safe You Dweebs

    I'm posting this just in case, but I noticed something really weird that looks like quasi-distancing early yesterday and decided to add a symbol to my notes (you may remember my symbol system from SF2).

    Basically, I think depending on Phi's alignment we may be able to read these two. I have both of these two as TL but I just couldn't shake something yesterday (see my legacy post )

    Similiar to what i did in g7, I'm just going to put this out here now - and if I get NK'd maybe somebody will actually find this in my ISO this time LOL.

    I hate towncores and I am here to paranoia myself for that sweet, sweet specc value.

    SUMMARY OF GAME ACTIONS LABELED AS RELATED TO THIS THEORY AND/OR FROM DYA + SPF
    These #s represent where they occured in the course of the game, I record all game actions that stick out to me/things i want to know for later. For perspective, D1 ended at recorded action 310.
    No need to read this, but this is the scope of things in the abstract. Ignore the symbols for now.

    $ Dya asks Roro if they randed VT 4
    $ SPF votes Roro off SK post 7
    $ Roro votes SPF says "an actual vote" 10
    $ SPF early SRs sloonei 14
    $ Slooeni SRs Phi 18
    $ - SPF agrees on the Phi SR 19
    $ Dya sends shep HW at P#122 20
    $ Dya points out that people didn't answer their response to the questions and dips 26
    $ SPF thinks Roro's opening was legit scummy and that's why SPF voted Roro 31
    $ SPF says Phi makes them uncomftorable 38
    $ SPF posts early impressions P#264 (townvibes from hally catchup, townlean on arete for enthusiasum to play $ shade on dizzy, on fence about chemist for threadstate commend, TRs HM "i'm going to die early" despite not wanting to) 44
    $ SPF says they are very nervous/uneasy at the start of game 49
    $ SPF votes Dya 51
    $ - SPF decides that actually, Dya is the better vote as PHi would be more performative as wolf 52
    $ SPF says they trust Dya will towntell 53
    $ Jay puts Arete/Sloonei/SPF in their avengers dream team thingy 56
    $ SPF explains their questioning of Roro/plan for progression 70
    $ SPF full thoughts on all players at p#532 82
    $ ! SPF read on HM is stronger (This is after the defense) 92
    $ SPF says they don't understand sheppard questioning if all their votes are serious as claimed. Misrepts my (sheppard) post at 641 98
    $ - Dya calls out Phi as likely town but sloon as wolf 131
    $ Dya cross-game review by shep at #898 134
    $ ! Dya reads HM as extremely towny 148
    $ Dya calls game cliquey 155
    $ The Dya-SPF fight continues 158
    $ SPF explains jay/sloonei relationship 160
    $ SPF asks everyone to GTH pick 3 town 168
    $ SPF takes my wording of "switching" and changes to "Jumping". Could be minor but I dont' like it. 179
    $ SPF readlist at P#1371 -> says they understand me? LOL 181
    $ ! HM/SPF have a little convo about sloonjay. SPF responds at 1402 183
    $ Dya FAT catchup post 1489 193
    $ Dya mentions difficutly reading Jack 198
    $ / Dya says they didn't move to jay bc Michelle was voting Jay 205
    $ ! Dya agrees with HM push on Jay 207
    $ Dya thinks jack is a wolf trying to mischop 209
    $ Dya sees same posting pattern in this game as SF3 for sloon 211
    $ Dya posts legacy readlist #1639 (legacy readlist....5 hours before EOD?) -> no shep 216
    $ Dya asks Jay if they think Jack has been trying to work on a team 221
    $ / Dya votes Michelle 232
    $ ! SPF asks Hally to comment on the "Dynamic" that is forming and for thoughts on the wagon 269
    $ ! Hally answers SPF and says Phi and Jack could still be same alignemnt with michelle 276
    $ - SPF: "sloonei, how does your new formed confidence about phighter being maf factor into your read on michelle? does that make her less likely or more likely to flip maf? " 290
    $ SPF suggests everyone posts their legacy reads 291
    $ Dya readlist #2347 292
    $ Dya legacy list/seven #2430 303
    $SPF answeres the jay boxing in the wolves thing 163
    $SPF asks for a reason to TR dya???? -> need to do interaction analysis on this. 185
    $SPF comments on every single Sheppard CFD vote 256
    $SPF drops legacy list


    The Start:

    I thought SPF's progression on Phi was a bit weird - so that's why this theory is still pending more info.

    P#121 we see the early sus from SPF and then even worse vibes at P#214
    at P#122 we see Dya bring up their long experience with Phi

    At P#310 SPF votes Dya despite talking more about Phi's play. Explained at P#320 as seeing no sign of towntelling + "aimless" scum hunting.



    Let's look at Dya's scumhunting (which looks they same as literally all their towngames btw):

    Asks Dizzy for clarification on the Hally read @ P#142 and then follows up again at P#155 after seeing Dizzy post without responding. Comes back one more time at P#211 - > really chasing down a lead here.

    Pokes Sloonei for dropping "two townreads" and saying nothing P#188 and then expands on this again.

    Does this look like "aimless" actions of someone scumhunting?

    Of course not. But do I believe that SPF actually believed that it was? No.

    As mentioned at P#402 SPF has no real follow up to this interaction and instead goes after the other players around - Jack paticularly comes up in P#371


    dyachei - the enthusiasm in #42 is almost believable, even though it has a bit of a diminishing return affect on #146

    i was generally underwhelmed with dya's early attempts to scumhunt, though. posts like #183 and 257 almost read as filler to me

    i also do not like dya admitting that their scumhunting is aimless on #322 and then saying that they've been really towny on #365. i don't quite buy that dya perceives themselves as very towny at that point in the game

    it's weird because there's clearly some kind of thought process going on in dya's scumhunting that we have not been made privy to - dya outs some decent reasoning for tr'ing monkey/arete on #377, but their ISO made no mention of those two players prior to this point

    my main beef with dya so far is that i don't have a good impression of where their thought process is at, or what their plan is to develop reads. i can only hope that this read will fade away once dya really gets into the game, but i find it relatively scummy so far

    1. Those first two lines combine to make a weird first vote/target to investigate. There's a nervous read on Dizzy, which it seems like Dya also related to (poking a lot at Dizzy early). So why scumhunt the person who's poking at someone you are sus of?

    2. This mention of responding comes 300 posts in the thread AFTER Dya has been gone & pointed out a lack of interaction.


    Dya comes back and brings up Phi as likely T.

    Then SPF's aggression on Dya slowly comes back. Jack jumps in on the aggression as well, much to Dya's chargin at P#1047 and P#1055.

    At P#1072 we see that SPF is buddying up to Dizzy a bit and then comes back defensive against Dya.

    At P#111 Dya TRs Spf despite SPFs push onto them.

    Phi calls out SPF's game as self obssesed

    Then Phi gets aggro'd on by HM.

    Now HM/SPF are buddies for a bit and push on Jay, despite the sloonjay posts from SPF.

    Things get quiet until the weird comments on my CFD - paticularly the stronger language AFTER I voted for Dya.




    THE WORLD BUILT OF FOIL, HOPE, AND 2AM PARANOIA


    how does this play into Michelle stuff?

    Not as well as I thought it did. For any of this to come into play I need more info than I have.

    SPF doesn't really follow up to the questions asked of Michelle at #1098. SPF at P#1225 wants to pursue michelle but doesn't fully scumread.

    At P#2598 the takes on Radish don't look paticularly great in light of Michelle flip either, but I'm filing this as WIFOM.

    Not a lot of W/W from Dya/Michelle which is what makes me put this as likely T!Dya/W!SPF if this world exists.

    this is the tinfoil corner and I'm here to deal. Here's some worlds that nobody is thinking about but probably should.

    Dya/SPF tinfoil takes:


    W/W: Excellent distancing, keeping time between posts, and targeting different Villas. however, not very possible IMO, especially since despite these constant accusations they end up consistently TR/TLing each other.

    T/W: Also very possible, more so than W/W in terms of pure Rand but would make a lot of sense at the progression. The likelyhood of this world depends a lot on Phi's alignment too.

    W/T: In this world then SPF is a meta-god who got a read on someone they know very fast and I will respect them forever.

    T/T: Hard to see this world - the early interactions are so weird. These players do know each other but I'm still concenred by this beyond any "meta" I can find.

    Conclusion & thoughts going forward.

    Tldr I hate when play looks this clean

    I went into this hoping to find something easy/substantial and I came out of it WAY MORE $%#!ING SUS OF MY "TOWN" reads.

    Basically, I think this is most likely T/W or T/T. Thus in the POE I put SPF before Dya if we reach the point of tinfoil/lylo/etc. but that's less important than the following




    ________


    What I Want To Do Today

    SPF moves to "The 3" to solve. category

    That 3 today consists of: Mist, SPF, HM

    Phighter/Michelle stuff is WIFOM for me, and I don't trust anyone who's going to read it hard one way or the other TBH. But I know that's going to be the town's focus today.

    Jay looks good, I think they may be town and we just see things very differently. I don't see Jay/Michelle as W/W right now. I looked over my notes like 20 times (and wrote a lot of them in the last 24 hours - didn't see anything fresh to change this).

    I said MR would self-resolve and that's happening. I said roro would self resolve and uh....I didn't mean like that but I guess that does it.

    Promoting MR & Jay to my new top "towns" before I inevitable tinfoil them in 10 pages too. This is very subject to change.

    Dizzy is a question I NEED answered today or I will rip my hair out. I feel exactly like I did last game, I'm going to sus them until the last moment of the game and then just accept the difference in playstyles.

    remember I can only TR dizzy if dizzy keeps posting gifs


    The Categories/Plan:

    3 I Don't Sus That Much For Now (aka the best Shep will ever get to a townlean): MR, Arete, Jay
    3 To Solve: Mist, SPF, HM
    3 To Push: Dizzy (honestly can go in either this or the solve list again tbh), Chemist, Sloonei
    3 to Watch Other People Solve & Follow Up On: Phi, Jack, Dya

    FLIPS PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO: It's not the obvious flips like Jack v Phi stuff, but if we see the cards of HM, Phi, Dya, or SPF this post needs to be rexamined as the info is all here - its just the order we put it in that will help with the gamesolve.
    _____________


    I'm just very scared we are on a very bad track this game, [despite getting maf D1] and someone is going to slip into the 7 and I don't like it. What happens when the 7 fails and we get to LYLO but we haven't thought about the POE of who not to take to LYLO?
    Did i mention I hate the 7 lol.
    his case against me begins here. note that he's evaluating me with SPF. also says not very likely to be w/w. then in the next sentence says T/W is also very likely.

    also says t/t unlikely but doesn't really have reasoning for that

    but ends in saying i'm more v than spf and spf would have to go first. wants to solve spf, mist and hm

    wnats to push mist, dizzy, and sloon.

    so remember his conclusion i was likely more town than spf, right? so why am i in the watch other people solve category?

    also he's worried about being on the wrong track because someone will get miscleared. I get the feeling this is like a tmi thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2712)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2699)
    sheppard -

    -what is the primary thing that made you dive specifically into me/dya? i don't understand how you connected the two of us

    i'm just gonna address the choice quotes from your ISO:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2674)
    Does this look like "aimless" actions of someone scumhunting?

    Of course not. But do I believe that SPF actually believed that it was? No.
    ..why do you not believe that i perceived that dya's scumhunting was aimless, especially considering that dya outright admitted that their scumhunting was aimless when i pressured them on it? it looked aimless to me because dya's questions were incredibly light. the question on sloonei is actually a good example of a question that i thought was aimless

    I explain this right below

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2674)
    1. Those first two lines combine to make a weird first vote/target to investigate. There's a nervous read on Dizzy, which it seems like Dya also related to (poking a lot at Dizzy early). So why scumhunt the person who's poking at someone you are sus of?
    you are misunderstanding my process. i aim to give a holistic analysis of the game regardless of whether or not an analysis of one player might contradict my analysis of another player. i believed that dya had aimless scumhunting, and i believe that dys had nervous energy. are you suggesting that i should not have made an earnest attempt to read dys because he was suspicious of dya too?

    the same goes for your suggestion that i was "buddying dys, btw. i had them low in my POE for the entire day

    I think I didn't explain this very well, it was a bit hastily typed up. I see it as either buddying or hedging based on the two worst worlds for us

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2674)
    Now HM/SPF are buddies for a bit and push on Jay, despite the sloonjay posts from SPF.
    ...do you think i pushed on sloonei and jay? i made it clear that i townleaned both of them throughout d1 even though i was transparent about my suspicions

    my intention is not to discourage you from tinfoiling. if you think i'm suspicious, i encourage you to do a deeper dive. but i am struggling to understand what caused this tinfoil in the first place - most of the points you raised here are easily contradicted by just ...reading my posts
    I have more stuff to unpack but I am addicted to refreshing this thread lol.

    I did this bc you were my #2 town (who I didn't do a big post on yet like Arete). I noted the Dya thing early and wanted to take that angle as I wanted the most insight into your play that way.

    If I trust someone a bit more than I think I should, I do the dive. I didn't like what I found, so you're out of my "wait until later to think about" pile and into my "think about now" pile.

    As with most of my posts like this, the real conclusion that matters is the gameplan at the bottom. I'm here to holistically solve now that we have 1 red down.

    Your response here is ...interesting. Going to think about it.
    basically it comes down to he thought he was clearing spf too easily. but even with that he seemingly tries to calm her down by pointing out the gameplan ss the thing that matters

    appeasement like this usually comes from wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2715)
    I think Arete's posts look good, but Im nervous bc they conclude a LOT of people to be "Unlikely" to be bussing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2836)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#2807)
    Lots of people talking about me, very few talking to me
    if only someone wrote a bunch of words that concluded you as being pretty town not once but twice


    haha jk.....unless?
    this is where he points out he thinks i'm town. but it's town when affiliated with spf. and it doesn't last long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2846)
    I am still very torn on Hally & HM.

    They also have a dedicated symbol in my notes:

    "
    ! Hally and HM stuff [find 'purity' that keeps being mentioned -> how did they get TRd so hard???]
    "

    I don't have a solid plan on how to solve here, HM is on my list today and I realized in my big post I forgot to put Hally in one of my "3s" so let's add Hally too the "3 to solve" in place of SPF - who I think I can sit on for a while and come back to.

    Here's my notes on the actions of these two, I don't know what to make of them except "this is pretty town but also....is it???"

    ! HM meme votes Jack 6
    ! * Jay TRs Dizzy for Scumlocking Hally 28
    ! Hally points out that it was a joke and the read is immature 29
    ! Hally calls town vibes from Arete (P#51) and HM (P#52) 36
    ! Sloonei thinks Monkeys response to Jay was nervous/shaky 46
    ! HM posts surprise that Hally's late arrival 55
    ! * Arete asks Dizzy about why Dizzy struggles to read Hally 61
    ! Arete puts top reads as Mist/Hally 63
    ! $ SPF mindmelds hally, HM then pokes/questions at Jay 64
    ! HM does the hsep HW at #442 67
    ! Hally giant wall catchup P#524 79
    ! Sloonei TRs SPF and Hally 80
    ! HM says jack is wolflean and SPF is townlock 87
    - ! Hm points out that Phi 90
    ! * - Hally big post at #643 covers Jay, Dizzy, and Phi stuff [solve this post solve the gameeee] 97
    ! $ Hally doesn't see how sloonei is getting SRd by Phi and Roro. SPF asks how its informing the read on them. 101
    ! Hally questions the shep interaction noting at 680 102
    ! Sloonei asks what bandwagons they have jumped on. Sheppard respond with examples (P#712). They don't respond to sheppard response. Hally does the same thing when examples are provided. 103
    ! Hally readlist at #685 106
    ! $ roro SRs Hally as faking a tunnel on them, answers quesitons about Dya read 118
    ! Mist points out that HM said "i don't want to vote for jay" then drops a case on jay 128
    ! HM also defends "The seven".....am I wrong? No...it is the children who are wrong.... 129
    ! Roro gets heeybey jeebies from HM 130
    ! Jay and HM have a little fight 136
    ! $ HM hard pushes onto shep for analyzing Dya first, asks why shep didn't anaylyze the games of PEOPLE WHO DIDN"T POST THEIR $%#!ING GAMES LMAO 149
    ! HM pushes Jay for having 8 town and pushing the two people with the least amount of defenders 159
    ! / Arete ISOs HM, says Vil Michelle "Mindmelds" with this 164
    ! HM TRs MR 176
    ! Roro TRs hally 177
    ! hally catchup at P#1394 184
    !* HM goes hard TR on Dizzy and responds to a ton of posts 186
    ! hally readlist at 1421 188
    !/ Hally pushes michelle 191
    ! HM pushes mist and jay 206
    $ ! Dya agrees with HM push on Jay 207
    ! Big Jay post on HM, kind of OMGUS-y 210
    ! $ HM says they dont' trust Dya talking to them at all [This post is likely going to be important at some point] 213
    ! HM gets annoyed with the chart again 215
    ! HM decides to ignore Jay for now. Puts a lot of thoughts down at 1704 about Jack, Sloon, PHi 225
    ! Hally says MR stock going up 253
    ! Jack makes a giant post on Sloonei and Hally #1907 254
    ! Sloon votes Phi (same style as the Hally vote) 259
    ! Hally comments on a bunch of Sheppard's CFD 264
    $ ! SPF asks Hally to comment on the "Dynamic" that is forming and for thoughts on the wagon 269
    ! HM sees Jack as doing "something" With associative reads 272
    $ ! Hally answers SPF and says Phi and Jack could still be same alignemnt with michelle 276
    ! - Hally says if Michelle/Jack is w/w then Phi is T 279
    ! * Hally also made about the arete vote 289
    ! HM says their most recent list is fine 293
    ! Hally legacy readlist P#2376 295
    ! HM bring sup that jack didn't answer questions 301
    ! Hally asks if it matters that michell has half the game voting her 305
    * ! Hally legacy comment is to not TR dizzy based on their gospel 307
    some suspicion of hally here but doesn't do anything about this

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2850)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#2843)
    ##Vote dyachei
    I need to meditae about this.
    he needs to meditate about someone voting his "town read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2857)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#2842)
    @Arete Thank you for your walls! It left me with especially two impressions: I want to consider Dya for sure. And I also could see Phighter just being town trying to be a bit hero-ish or something. I'm not sure on this, and with his recent random turn on me, cause it really feels purely random, I find it hard to know how to engage with him. But that's besides the point.

    my only oncern about voting jjj is that i think michelle is still in her wolf range and she's voting him

    The phrase of "I think Michelle is still in her wolf range" is very strange to me. It's like a less direct way of saying she's playing to her scum meta. It doesn't read like a natural phrase to me.


    What does everyone think?

    I did have a micro reason for thinking not Michelle/Dya though. And that was Michelle liking Dya for saying that it felt awesome to not have randed mafia. But looking at it again, it's not that strong. What does everyone thing?
    That's a really bizzare reason to go off, and then throw it out later and vote for Dya?

    Do you have more than this to go off here?

    I like the Italics but that could also be language barrier.
    immediately likes dizzy's suspicion on me but says it could just be language/explained away

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2861)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2858)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#2851)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2790)
    7/12 of the players who are not me have been pushing for at least 2/3 of me/jack/phighter

    Out of the ones who didn't, MR disagreed on me but didn't mention phi/jack, Arete came to their own conclusions (which you can see at SoD), Sheppard called Phighter/Jack too easy for ??? reasons, SPF has not given her thoughts on phi/jack yet but did scumread me off of interactions, and Jack has just been tunneling phighter

    So this is why I think it's the wolf agenda since the "not pushing in me/phi/jack" group is 3/5 my confident town. @Sloonei
    I still do not follow. I am trying to understand you here, Mist. I apologize if these questions have come off as overbearing. But I don't understand what you're saying.

    Who are your three "confident town" reads? You also note that 7/12 players are pushing the angle which you object to. But only 2/13 players in the whole game are mafia, so at the very least there are 5 civilians who are focused on an apparent consensus. If you are a civilian and you've been misidentified as a suspect, you absolutely should be fighting it. But I fail to see why you are leaping to the conclusion that this is the wolf agenda.

    Furthermore, you directly implied in 2607 that this was happening yesterday as well, but your focus here is on the people who have pushed it today. When do you think the mafia team began to pursue this strategy? What do you think they were trying to do yesterday, if you have formulated any ideas on that? Feel free to just speculate loosely if you're comfortable. My priority right now is understanding your present mindset.
    Arete, SPF and Sheppard

    And I did say that yes, I think they started doing it yesterday to set up for today

    Regardless of who the team is I don't think they could have saved Michelle, so the priority for me at least would be to make sure I'm in a salvageable position D2 with a favorable PoE
    Do you have specific posts that you think were people "setting you up"?

    Most of the quotes people have pulled against you were just....your own posts.

    If you can show me where this narrative comes from, in terms of actual posts or at least associations between posts that were designed to "set you up" I'd be able to buy into this theory more. For now it seems weird that you respond to people quoting your post and saying "This looks like scum" with "I'M BEING SET UP!".

    I have you filed under "3 to push" today, but that's not a straight up SR btw.
    he's so appeasing! like he says here, you're not a straight up SR, bur mist is in his to push pile. he just wnats to have people feel good about him instead of being focused on things that make mist wolf or town

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2882)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#2877)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2869)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2861)
    Do you have specific posts that you think were people "setting you up"?

    Most of the quotes people have pulled against you were just....your own posts.

    If you can show me where this narrative comes from, in terms of actual posts or at least associations between posts that were designed to "set you up" I'd be able to buy into this theory more. For now it seems weird that you respond to people quoting your post and saying "This looks like scum" with "I'M BEING SET UP!".

    I have you filed under "3 to push" today, but that's not a straight up SR btw.
    I was consensus town D1 then I was not

    Now I am within the stated PoE of literally everyone except myself, Arete, Jack, and MR. That is 3/4 of the game if I am not included.

    Don't try to twist me into looking unreasonable over this
    Mmm. I don't think you were long in the consensus townreads. There was a lot of waffling.
    I asked for specific posts....I'm giving Mist an out here to explain their theory in a better way and all I got was the same exact thing I responded to which is "ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE ON ME!"....why do you think I'm willing to talk to you about this? It's BECAUSE you have such a strong push onto you that I am forced to doubt it.

    But idk what to do with this nonsense response LOL

    ##Vote Chemist1422

    Call me when you got some post #s I can look at or something.
    votes mist when he doesnt get the answer he wants. mist is perfectly within her rights to say look at how many people are pushing her. it doesn't make her a wolf because she doesnt acquiesce to shep's demands

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2926)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2912)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2674)
    A LOT OF THOUGHTS AND SOME DYA/SPF TINFOIL JUST-IN-CASE INCLUDED

    This is a NON META READS POST BABYYYYYY (informed by reading their metas though - see also: my Dya post).

    Basically, The Seven Is Not That Safe You Dweebs

    I'm posting this just in case, but I noticed something really weird that looks like quasi-distancing early yesterday and decided to add a symbol to my notes (you may remember my symbol system from SF2).

    Basically, I think depending on Phi's alignment we may be able to read these two. I have both of these two as TL but I just couldn't shake something yesterday (see my legacy post )

    Similiar to what i did in g7, I'm just going to put this out here now - and if I get NK'd maybe somebody will actually find this in my ISO this time LOL.

    I hate towncores and I am here to paranoia myself for that sweet, sweet specc value.

    SUMMARY OF GAME ACTIONS LABELED AS RELATED TO THIS THEORY AND/OR FROM DYA + SPF
    These #s represent where they occured in the course of the game, I record all game actions that stick out to me/things i want to know for later. For perspective, D1 ended at recorded action 310.
    No need to read this, but this is the scope of things in the abstract. Ignore the symbols for now.

    $ Dya asks Roro if they randed VT 4
    $ SPF votes Roro off SK post 7
    $ Roro votes SPF says "an actual vote" 10
    $ SPF early SRs sloonei 14
    $ Slooeni SRs Phi 18
    $ - SPF agrees on the Phi SR 19
    $ Dya sends shep HW at P#122 20
    $ Dya points out that people didn't answer their response to the questions and dips 26
    $ SPF thinks Roro's opening was legit scummy and that's why SPF voted Roro 31
    $ SPF says Phi makes them uncomftorable 38
    $ SPF posts early impressions P#264 (townvibes from hally catchup, townlean on arete for enthusiasum to play $ shade on dizzy, on fence about chemist for threadstate commend, TRs HM "i'm going to die early" despite not wanting to) 44
    $ SPF says they are very nervous/uneasy at the start of game 49
    $ SPF votes Dya 51
    $ - SPF decides that actually, Dya is the better vote as PHi would be more performative as wolf 52
    $ SPF says they trust Dya will towntell 53
    $ Jay puts Arete/Sloonei/SPF in their avengers dream team thingy 56
    $ SPF explains their questioning of Roro/plan for progression 70
    $ SPF full thoughts on all players at p#532 82
    $ ! SPF read on HM is stronger (This is after the defense) 92
    $ SPF says they don't understand sheppard questioning if all their votes are serious as claimed. Misrepts my (sheppard) post at 641 98
    $ - Dya calls out Phi as likely town but sloon as wolf 131
    $ Dya cross-game review by shep at #898 134
    $ ! Dya reads HM as extremely towny 148
    $ Dya calls game cliquey 155
    $ The Dya-SPF fight continues 158
    $ SPF explains jay/sloonei relationship 160
    $ SPF asks everyone to GTH pick 3 town 168
    $ SPF takes my wording of "switching" and changes to "Jumping". Could be minor but I dont' like it. 179
    $ SPF readlist at P#1371 -> says they understand me? LOL 181
    $ ! HM/SPF have a little convo about sloonjay. SPF responds at 1402 183
    $ Dya FAT catchup post 1489 193
    $ Dya mentions difficutly reading Jack 198
    $ / Dya says they didn't move to jay bc Michelle was voting Jay 205
    $ ! Dya agrees with HM push on Jay 207
    $ Dya thinks jack is a wolf trying to mischop 209
    $ Dya sees same posting pattern in this game as SF3 for sloon 211
    $ Dya posts legacy readlist #1639 (legacy readlist....5 hours before EOD?) -> no shep 216
    $ Dya asks Jay if they think Jack has been trying to work on a team 221
    $ / Dya votes Michelle 232
    $ ! SPF asks Hally to comment on the "Dynamic" that is forming and for thoughts on the wagon 269
    $ ! Hally answers SPF and says Phi and Jack could still be same alignemnt with michelle 276
    $ - SPF: "sloonei, how does your new formed confidence about phighter being maf factor into your read on michelle? does that make her less likely or more likely to flip maf? " 290
    $ SPF suggests everyone posts their legacy reads 291
    $ Dya readlist #2347 292
    $ Dya legacy list/seven #2430 303
    $SPF answeres the jay boxing in the wolves thing 163
    $SPF asks for a reason to TR dya???? -> need to do interaction analysis on this. 185
    $SPF comments on every single Sheppard CFD vote 256
    $SPF drops legacy list


    The Start:

    I thought SPF's progression on Phi was a bit weird - so that's why this theory is still pending more info.

    P#121 we see the early sus from SPF and then even worse vibes at P#214
    at P#122 we see Dya bring up their long experience with Phi

    At P#310 SPF votes Dya despite talking more about Phi's play. Explained at P#320 as seeing no sign of towntelling + "aimless" scum hunting.



    Let's look at Dya's scumhunting (which looks they same as literally all their towngames btw):

    Asks Dizzy for clarification on the Hally read @ P#142 and then follows up again at P#155 after seeing Dizzy post without responding. Comes back one more time at P#211 - > really chasing down a lead here.

    Pokes Sloonei for dropping "two townreads" and saying nothing P#188 and then expands on this again.

    Does this look like "aimless" actions of someone scumhunting?

    Of course not. But do I believe that SPF actually believed that it was? No.

    As mentioned at P#402 SPF has no real follow up to this interaction and instead goes after the other players around - Jack paticularly comes up in P#371


    dyachei - the enthusiasm in #42 is almost believable, even though it has a bit of a diminishing return affect on #146

    i was generally underwhelmed with dya's early attempts to scumhunt, though. posts like #183 and 257 almost read as filler to me

    i also do not like dya admitting that their scumhunting is aimless on #322 and then saying that they've been really towny on #365. i don't quite buy that dya perceives themselves as very towny at that point in the game

    it's weird because there's clearly some kind of thought process going on in dya's scumhunting that we have not been made privy to - dya outs some decent reasoning for tr'ing monkey/arete on #377, but their ISO made no mention of those two players prior to this point

    my main beef with dya so far is that i don't have a good impression of where their thought process is at, or what their plan is to develop reads. i can only hope that this read will fade away once dya really gets into the game, but i find it relatively scummy so far

    1. Those first two lines combine to make a weird first vote/target to investigate. There's a nervous read on Dizzy, which it seems like Dya also related to (poking a lot at Dizzy early). So why scumhunt the person who's poking at someone you are sus of?

    2. This mention of responding comes 300 posts in the thread AFTER Dya has been gone & pointed out a lack of interaction.


    Dya comes back and brings up Phi as likely T.

    Then SPF's aggression on Dya slowly comes back. Jack jumps in on the aggression as well, much to Dya's chargin at P#1047 and P#1055.

    At P#1072 we see that SPF is buddying up to Dizzy a bit and then comes back defensive against Dya.

    At P#111 Dya TRs Spf despite SPFs push onto them.

    Phi calls out SPF's game as self obssesed

    Then Phi gets aggro'd on by HM.

    Now HM/SPF are buddies for a bit and push on Jay, despite the sloonjay posts from SPF.

    Things get quiet until the weird comments on my CFD - paticularly the stronger language AFTER I voted for Dya.




    THE WORLD BUILT OF FOIL, HOPE, AND 2AM PARANOIA


    how does this play into Michelle stuff?

    Not as well as I thought it did. For any of this to come into play I need more info than I have.

    SPF doesn't really follow up to the questions asked of Michelle at #1098. SPF at P#1225 wants to pursue michelle but doesn't fully scumread.

    At P#2598 the takes on Radish don't look paticularly great in light of Michelle flip either, but I'm filing this as WIFOM.

    Not a lot of W/W from Dya/Michelle which is what makes me put this as likely T!Dya/W!SPF if this world exists.

    this is the tinfoil corner and I'm here to deal. Here's some worlds that nobody is thinking about but probably should.

    Dya/SPF tinfoil takes:


    W/W: Excellent distancing, keeping time between posts, and targeting different Villas. however, not very possible IMO, especially since despite these constant accusations they end up consistently TR/TLing each other.

    T/W: Also very possible, more so than W/W in terms of pure Rand but would make a lot of sense at the progression. The likelyhood of this world depends a lot on Phi's alignment too.

    W/T: In this world then SPF is a meta-god who got a read on someone they know very fast and I will respect them forever.

    T/T: Hard to see this world - the early interactions are so weird. These players do know each other but I'm still concenred by this beyond any "meta" I can find.

    Conclusion & thoughts going forward.

    Tldr I hate when play looks this clean

    I went into this hoping to find something easy/substantial and I came out of it WAY MORE $%#!ING SUS OF MY "TOWN" reads.

    Basically, I think this is most likely T/W or T/T. Thus in the POE I put SPF before Dya if we reach the point of tinfoil/lylo/etc. but that's less important than the following




    ________


    What I Want To Do Today

    SPF moves to "The 3" to solve. category

    That 3 today consists of: Mist, SPF, HM

    Phighter/Michelle stuff is WIFOM for me, and I don't trust anyone who's going to read it hard one way or the other TBH. But I know that's going to be the town's focus today.

    Jay looks good, I think they may be town and we just see things very differently. I don't see Jay/Michelle as W/W right now. I looked over my notes like 20 times (and wrote a lot of them in the last 24 hours - didn't see anything fresh to change this).

    I said MR would self-resolve and that's happening. I said roro would self resolve and uh....I didn't mean like that but I guess that does it.

    Promoting MR & Jay to my new top "towns" before I inevitable tinfoil them in 10 pages too. This is very subject to change.

    Dizzy is a question I NEED answered today or I will rip my hair out. I feel exactly like I did last game, I'm going to sus them until the last moment of the game and then just accept the difference in playstyles.

    remember I can only TR dizzy if dizzy keeps posting gifs


    The Categories/Plan:

    3 I Don't Sus That Much For Now (aka the best Shep will ever get to a townlean): MR, Arete, Jay
    3 To Solve: Mist, SPF, HM
    3 To Push: Dizzy (honestly can go in either this or the solve list again tbh), Chemist, Sloonei
    3 to Watch Other People Solve & Follow Up On: Phi, Jack, Dya

    FLIPS PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO: It's not the obvious flips like Jack v Phi stuff, but if we see the cards of HM, Phi, Dya, or SPF this post needs to be rexamined as the info is all here - its just the order we put it in that will help with the gamesolve.
    _____________


    I'm just very scared we are on a very bad track this game, [despite getting maf D1] and someone is going to slip into the 7 and I don't like it. What happens when the 7 fails and we get to LYLO but we haven't thought about the POE of who not to take to LYLO?
    Did i mention I hate the 7 lol.
    i don’t know if it’s because i’m extremely distracted right now, but i couldn’t follow this post at all

    can you give me cliff notes? just the main points you’re trying to express here
    The conclusion section come on....

    here's the most important parts updated with my comments from the last few pages.

    3 I Don't Sus That Much For Now (aka the best Shep will ever get to a townlean): MR, Arete, Jay
    3 To Solve: Mist, SPF(new post coming soon), HM, Hally
    3 To Push: Dizzy Moving Dizzy to townlean for the sake of this gameflow, Chemist, Sloonei
    3 to Watch Other People Solve & Follow Up On: Phi, Jack, Dya


    Also:

    I'm just very scared we are on a very bad track this game, [despite getting maf D1] and someone is going to slip into the 7 and I don't like it. What happens when the 7 fails and we get to LYLO but we haven't thought about the POE of who not to take to LYLO?
    Did i mention I hate the 7 lol.


    easy interaction with hally

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2930)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#2914)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2857)
    That's a really bizzare reason to go off, and then throw it out later and vote for Dya?

    Do you have more than this to go off here?

    I like the Italics but that could also be language barrier.
    The quote in italics is from Dya, and I believe they are American. The phrase just stood out to me. I'm also sheeping Arete's suspicion here a bit, cause I liked it when I read it. Also, me-related, but I really think Dya should be able to find me as town here. Like for real, I'm over the Dizzy suspicion floating a bit here and there from certain players right now, cause really why. "You could've bussed, I find you null, You're too soft and too mushy." Nah.
    Ohh I totally misread your post. This makes more sense. Still, I'm suprised to see the Dya pressure coming now and not yesterday but that may be bc everyone was focused elsewhere yesterday.
    as usual, he's ok with people wolf reading me despite his read of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#3002)
    Phighter - I need to get back to you tomorrow. Your read on me, and frankly some of your other reads looks almost like "I imagine this narrative.." with a lot of assumptions. I get that you have reasons as far as you're concerned, but they are hard to engage with at least as far as your read on me right now. That you had a gut feeling or that you want the solution to be challenging is not something I can answer to. Right now I just want to have a read on you and move on. But do ask me specific questions and I'll try to answer. Warning, I skimmed this post, but will get back to it if you still feel it's unanswered. It just for me feels a bit like a waste of time cause I'm not super interested in pursuing you and I know you're wrong on me for reasons I don't comprehend.

    Hally - You're a bit limp this day honestly. Are you?


    Dya - Nah, I'm not expecting you to be able to read me off of past games, but more from this game. But doesn't really matter right now. I might overestimate how "easy" I think it should be and maybe not being fair. So scratch that I guess.

    Those wagons seems cool.
    I'm taking it a bit easy for the evening and saving my post count (the more games I play, the more I want to post and I'm learning the dangers of the cap very quickly).

    My last comment is going to be that I also am curious about Hally's play today. I think Hally is due for my next deep tinfoil tbh (and thus is on the "to solve" list today - something I wish was done by now but here we are d2 and not seeing enough yet....).

    I feel like I'm always getting asked quesitons by Hally, then I answer, then there's no followup or real progression. I posted about my desire to solve both HM and Hally but only HM responded.

    @staypositivefriend you have the strongest hally read, can you elaborate on that?
    says he wants to talk about hally more because no follow up from them. decent look here

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3095)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#3093)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3087)
    Its really weird that you only responded to the two posts (spoilered) after I pointed out your lack of follow through here:
    can i assume that you're referring to hally here and not me? the formatting was confusing

    also yes, i do believe that their decline in activity is NAI
    Yes that was directed at Hally. I felt weird going "Why isn't hally following up"

    Getting 0 follow up on THAT but then getting follow up on the two posts I was complaining about not being followed up on.

    Feels less like "I'm going to put pressure on sheppard!" and more like "I'm going to do the thing sheppard says I need to do to be town!"

    I don't solidly scumlean Hally or anything btw, these last couple pages + the more idle activity today just makes me a bit nervous as they are on the "to solve today" list.
    but again with the hedginess around his reads

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3129)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#3046)
    General prompt for everyone to respond to or just consider:

    If you were to construct a POE pool right now of six suspects, who would you name?

    Chemist
    Jack
    Phi
    Dya [oh how the turntables]
    Radish [this one is half-policy POE, I know SOD is tough but I'm not seeing the Radish I want to see. The Radish I want to see showed up for a few hours at SOD today and has been MIA since.]
    Hally/Sloonei/HM depending on the next 6 hours of posting tbh.
    so that v read lasted less than half a day i think. and it's turned because of 1 question from dizzy on me. literally the first chance shep got

    i also don't think he knew radish was joat here at least

    why is it when he brings up hally being in a group, it's with 2 other people attached?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3131)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#3101)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3088)
    Sloonei GTH there is a wolf in your towncore, who is it?

    GTH there is a town in your POE, who is it?
    Hally
    dyachei
    now this is a spicy meatball.

    Walk me through it if you don't mind
    (i have both these players in my most recent POE)
    why would it be that surprising if he had me as town a second ago? and it introduces hally as the one being erroneously cleared

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3136)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#3134)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3131)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#3101)
    Hally
    dyachei
    now this is a spicy meatball.

    Walk me through it if you don't mind
    (i have both these players in my most recent POE)
    You put a gun to my head and asked me for this reads. The Hally pick is not one I can really say much about. I scanned my "towncore" list and Hally's was the name that felt least secure. I don't have a tangible reason for that and I would not vote for Hally in a million years as things currently stand.

    Dya is a town read who I'm just unable to remove from the POE at this point. I don't find them actively suspicious, but there was nothing in their interactions with Michelle that cleared them.

    Why was this a spicy answer to you?
    The dya claim is interesting, that they are in POE out of neccessity. Is that like a "i don't want to take dya to LYLO" kind of thing?

    Spicy bc Hally is a near-universal townread (except Phi and my recent doubts) and Dya is a heavily SR'd player. Anytime someone diverges from conensus I am going to be excited for some spice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3140)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3138)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3095)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#3093)
    can i assume that you're referring to hally here and not me? the formatting was confusing

    also yes, i do believe that their decline in activity is NAI
    Yes that was directed at Hally. I felt weird going "Why isn't hally following up"

    Getting 0 follow up on THAT but then getting follow up on the two posts I was complaining about not being followed up on.

    Feels less like "I'm going to put pressure on sheppard!" and more like "I'm going to do the thing sheppard says I need to do to be town!"

    I don't solidly scumlean Hally or anything btw, these last couple pages + the more idle activity today just makes me a bit nervous as they are on the "to solve today" list.
    to clarify, i’m replying as i read. so i probably didn’t see you complaining about it before i followed up on it. i don’t actually know though because i don’t really know what posts you’re talking about
    The ones in the spoiler (that got messed up). I have to re-read and see if this matches up, that they came in the post order in such a way that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3145)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3027)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#2846)
    I am still very torn on Hally & HM.

    They also have a dedicated symbol in my notes:

    "
    ! Hally and HM stuff [find 'purity' that keeps being mentioned -> how did they get TRd so hard???]
    "

    I don't have a solid plan on how to solve here, HM is on my list today and I realized in my big post I forgot to put Hally in one of my "3s" so let's add Hally too the "3 to solve" in place of SPF - who I think I can sit on for a while and come back to.

    Here's my notes on the actions of these two, I don't know what to make of them except "this is pretty town but also....is it???"

    ! HM meme votes Jack 6
    ! * Jay TRs Dizzy for Scumlocking Hally 28
    ! Hally points out that it was a joke and the read is immature 29
    ! Hally calls town vibes from Arete (P#51) and HM (P#52) 36
    ! Sloonei thinks Monkeys response to Jay was nervous/shaky 46
    ! HM posts surprise that Hally's late arrival 55
    ! * Arete asks Dizzy about why Dizzy struggles to read Hally 61
    ! Arete puts top reads as Mist/Hally 63
    ! $ SPF mindmelds hally, HM then pokes/questions at Jay 64
    ! HM does the hsep HW at #442 67
    ! Hally giant wall catchup P#524 79
    ! Sloonei TRs SPF and Hally 80
    ! HM says jack is wolflean and SPF is townlock 87
    - ! Hm points out that Phi 90
    ! * - Hally big post at #643 covers Jay, Dizzy, and Phi stuff [solve this post solve the gameeee] 97
    ! $ Hally doesn't see how sloonei is getting SRd by Phi and Roro. SPF asks how its informing the read on them. 101
    ! Hally questions the shep interaction noting at 680 102
    ! Sloonei asks what bandwagons they have jumped on. Sheppard respond with examples (P#712). They don't respond to sheppard response. Hally does the same thing when examples are provided. 103
    ! Hally readlist at #685 106
    ! $ roro SRs Hally as faking a tunnel on them, answers quesitons about Dya read 118
    ! Mist points out that HM said "i don't want to vote for jay" then drops a case on jay 128
    ! HM also defends "The seven".....am I wrong? No...it is the children who are wrong.... 129
    ! Roro gets heeybey jeebies from HM 130
    ! Jay and HM have a little fight 136
    ! $ HM hard pushes onto shep for analyzing Dya first, asks why shep didn't anaylyze the games of PEOPLE WHO DIDN"T POST THEIR $%#!ING GAMES LMAO 149
    ! HM pushes Jay for having 8 town and pushing the two people with the least amount of defenders 159
    ! / Arete ISOs HM, says Vil Michelle "Mindmelds" with this 164
    ! HM TRs MR 176
    ! Roro TRs hally 177
    ! hally catchup at P#1394 184
    !* HM goes hard TR on Dizzy and responds to a ton of posts 186
    ! hally readlist at 1421 188
    !/ Hally pushes michelle 191
    ! HM pushes mist and jay 206
    $ ! Dya agrees with HM push on Jay 207
    ! Big Jay post on HM, kind of OMGUS-y 210
    ! $ HM says they dont' trust Dya talking to them at all [This post is likely going to be important at some point] 213
    ! HM gets annoyed with the chart again 215
    ! HM decides to ignore Jay for now. Puts a lot of thoughts down at 1704 about Jack, Sloon, PHi 225
    ! Hally says MR stock going up 253
    ! Jack makes a giant post on Sloonei and Hally #1907 254
    ! Sloon votes Phi (same style as the Hally vote) 259
    ! Hally comments on a bunch of Sheppard's CFD 264
    $ ! SPF asks Hally to comment on the "Dynamic" that is forming and for thoughts on the wagon 269
    ! HM sees Jack as doing "something" With associative reads 272
    $ ! Hally answers SPF and says Phi and Jack could still be same alignemnt with michelle 276
    ! - Hally says if Michelle/Jack is w/w then Phi is T 279
    ! * Hally also made about the arete vote 289
    ! HM says their most recent list is fine 293
    ! Hally legacy readlist P#2376 295
    ! HM bring sup that jack didn't answer questions 301
    ! Hally asks if it matters that michell has half the game voting her 305
    * ! Hally legacy comment is to not TR dizzy based on their gospel 307
    what can i do to help you read me better? do you have any questions for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3038)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2874)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2870)
    yeah, i don’t really understand what she’s taking about. but maybe once i’m caught up she’ll have explained it
    @Hally
    Read P#2790
    i did. i don’t get it. you’re saying pushing you/phi/jack as the immediate poe is the wolf agenda. show me how. why are jack/phi town? and which of the several people that have you three as suspects are villagers? which ones are wolves?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3041)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#2886)
    I think I've gotten myself stuck on the back foot here

    But I really don't think my arguments are being seriously entertained

    I think my MR push still holds some merit

    I think Dizzy still had weird progression

    Hally has been trending down for me today

    If I were to make a list I think it'd be

    Arete/SPF/monkey
    JJJ/Jack/Phighter
    Sheppard/Hally
    dya/Sloonei
    MR/Dizzy
    i still don’t understand why you tr phi and jack so strongly and why you sr sloonei. i also don’t really find your reason to have dizzy so low convincing. i don’t know if i’m just failing to understand you here or if you’re not explaining yourself well or something in between


    Oh my god you were literally responding in order as you caught up based on these post #s.....

    Either thats a really smart way to dodge heat or I am really, really stupid.
    this is the confusion about how hally is answering posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3156)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#3146)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3136)
    The dya claim is interesting, that they are in POE out of neccessity. Is that like a "i don't want to take dya to LYLO" kind of thing?

    Spicy bc Hally is a near-universal townread (except Phi and my recent doubts) and Dya is a heavily SR'd player. Anytime someone diverges from conensus I am going to be excited for some spice.
    I am not thinking about LYLO at this stage in the game. If I find myself alive in such a situation, things will have progressed to such an extent that my early-Day-2 reads will hardly be the first on my mind. Dya's just in the POE because I can't conclusively say they shouldn't be.

    I believe in my towncore. I apologize for getting your spice sensors up. But you put a gun to my head and told me to take one of them out, and Hally was the name I burped up.

    At some point during this phase I will articulate why I'm content to remove all of these folks from the POE.

    What's your POE like? Can you list a reason to town read each of them?
    You don't think about LYLO in your POEs????? I feel like I always think about "well, I'm not sure if they are actually scum but I can't afford to have them in LYLO"

    Here's my POE:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3129)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#3046)
    General prompt for everyone to respond to or just consider:

    If you were to construct a POE pool right now of six suspects, who would you name?

    Chemist
    Jack
    Phi
    Dya [oh how the turntables]
    Radish [this one is half-policy POE, I know SOD is tough but I'm not seeing the Radish I want to see. The Radish I want to see showed up for a few hours at SOD today and has been MIA since.]
    Hally/Sloonei/HM depending on the next 6 hours of posting tbh.
    Reasons each could be town:

    Jack -> Phi or Mist reads are legit and not just self-pres
    Phi -> Phi is playing their own, aggressive game. They don't really have any strong allies and I assume that when it comes down to just 2 mafia they'd be playing to save each other much more now
    Dya -> See my SPF post for reasons why Dya may be town
    Radish -> Genuingly not available. The towny SOD is the real deal and this is really about IRL time commitments.
    Hally/Sloonei/HM -> Hally = Genuingly catching up & too busy following many threads to follow up with each. Sloonei = seems to be transparently teamed with Jay based on meta reads and Jay is all but lock town pending some weird flips. Only reason not already TR'd for this is that I don't have the same meta read on the sloonjay life that others do
    HM -> Tbh mostly in POE bc I am very tinfoiled about them right now, althought I realized in my notes one of the things that jumped on (progression on jay) was actually something pointed out by Mist, so a mist flip will tell us a lot here.
    also like...shep is planning for lylo from early on. why did he think he was going to make it to lylo? especially after his drama over being the possible nk target n1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3159)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3157)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3145)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3027)
    what can i do to help you read me better? do you have any questions for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3038)
    i did. i don’t get it. you’re saying pushing you/phi/jack as the immediate poe is the wolf agenda. show me how. why are jack/phi town? and which of the several people that have you three as suspects are villagers? which ones are wolves?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3041)
    i still don’t understand why you tr phi and jack so strongly and why you sr sloonei. i also don’t really find your reason to have dizzy so low convincing. i don’t know if i’m just failing to understand you here or if you’re not explaining yourself well or something in between


    Oh my god you were literally responding in order as you caught up based on these post #s.....

    Either thats a really smart way to dodge heat or I am really, really stupid.
    i thought that was obvious
    I need to check all the posts but the post #s are so close together I don't discount that you could be livereading & then playing catch up with future knowledge of what's to come just for this purpose.

    Here's a quesiton for you that I gave Dizzy earlier (and I think i got from AXIS):

    Are you in your wolf range?
    asking hally straight out if in their wolf range is fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3164)
    Prediction: Today is going to be another day of me tinfoiling while sitting on a Mist vote, then getting panicked by consensus and exploring every avenue, then EOD I go back to mist, they flip W and then I'm just the biggest Dumb to ever Dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3169)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#3167)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3156)
    You don't think about LYLO in your POEs????? I feel like I always think about "well, I'm not sure if they are actually scum but I can't afford to have them in LYLO"
    I'm always just reading the thread as it is in the moment. LYLO is a thing that LYLO-Sloon can worry about if it gets to that point. Day 2-Sloon is worried about Day 2.

    Reasons each could be town:

    Jack -> Phi or Mist reads are legit and not just self-pres
    Phi -> Phi is playing their own, aggressive game. They don't really have any strong allies and I assume that when it comes down to just 2 mafia they'd be playing to save each other much more now
    Dya -> See my SPF post for reasons why Dya may be town
    Radish -> Genuingly not available. The towny SOD is the real deal and this is really about IRL time commitments.
    Hally/Sloonei/HM -> Hally = Genuingly catching up & too busy following many threads to follow up with each. Sloonei = seems to be transparently teamed with Jay based on meta reads and Jay is all but lock town pending some weird flips. Only reason not already TR'd for this is that I don't have the same meta read on the sloonjay life that others do
    HM -> Tbh mostly in POE bc I am very tinfoiled about them right now, althought I realized in my notes one of the things that jumped on (progression on jay) was actually something pointed out by Mist, so a mist flip will tell us a lot here.
    Did any of these reasons stand out to you as being easier/harder to come up with than the others?
    Mist** & Dya. I don't even really agree with my own early D2 thoughts on Dya in light of SPF's response so its like....does that world exist? Yes. Does it get them out of POE? Yes. Do I really think thats a possiblity? No.

    I also realized that mist is my top scum and MIA bc its late and I am tired. I gave my reasons earlier I think but Mist is the hardest to come with a reason that isn't "Frustrated Town" which is a pretty hard sell anytime that comes up as an excuse.
    basically puts me back in poe and says i cant be cleared from it

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3347)
    Hey all! I'm working remote from my families house today so I'm on laptop and don't have my full notes (I only backed up on drive to day 2 4 or 5 pages in....thanks for the call Phi).

    I just caught up on the thread and have a few points before I dive into things with work and do some re-reads:

    1. Does anyone other than Phi have a real, substantiated Jack post? I'm going to do a Jack dive bc I feel that I keep slamming my head against a wall looking to tinfoil and it comes back mostly clean.

    2. RE: My hally prode yesterrday -> Upon re-read I don't think they had as clean a response to my light push on them as SPF did to my much harder push. Don't know what else I can do for now except make sure to come back to this later.

    3. Sloonei stock has gone up too - I think they have incredibly solid gamesolve today vs yesterday. I read their meta a bit yesterday as you all may recall and had them as "wolfrange". Today they look to be very much not in that same wolfrange. I especially like their questioning of me - a lot of people have been just TRing me or going "Sheppard is crazy, he's town but ignore him" - I like that sloonei doesnt' find this satisfactory and seems to be genuingly trying to solve me.

    4. Phi and Mist have very, very different gamestate reads than I do. Phi's summary of the other players....doesn't read at all how I have been reading them. I'm going to expand on this in just a second with my next post. Mist not thinking Dya has a push or any pressure is weird as $%#! too. I literally had a TopTown to POE progression on Dya over the course of the last 10 pages. I feel like tunneling on only defending yourself is a big wolf play - town knows if they die but find a wolf they are clear but to a wolf avoiding death is the only victory condition (of course you all know this but spelling out my thoughts helps me think).

    5. I think I'm done tinfoiling this hard for now (lol jk see me in 2 pages......unless?). I started today on the assumption these pushes by others onto Mist/Jack/Phi would give some substantial help to me (on either the pusher or the pushee) but this only really occured in the case of Dya.

    5.A I see a pattern here where Dya/Dizzy/Jack likely has exactly 1 wolf in them, and right now I don't think its Dizzy.

    6. Has HM felt more idle/less solve-y today to anyone else? This is my least expanded upon point but I just noticed I have felt their presence less as well as their name coming up less often.

    yes i realize I just did:

    5. I will tinfoil less
    6. Here is tinfoil bait
    leaves hally for later despite being concerned about them is a ???

    saying there's 1 wolf in 3 players is an excuse to eliminate up 2-3 villagers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3353)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#3197)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#3160)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#2823)
    do you have any original content or are you just gonna +1 every towny wall post
    It’s frustrating being in a box when you’re a wolf.

    Look at what parts of the poe are unhappy with the game state. Look who’s comfortable (and I’m not just talking about myself).
    Also, what gamestate are you talking about?

    I don't think anyone is super clearly town except like, JJJ?

    Like for real. I have town reads on a lot of people? But I don't think anything is a sure thing. Look how easy it is to make a case someone's mafia right now:

    I.E. calm your $%#! down if you read this and get sent into a fiery tizzy of death. You can respond to my post and talk about my points but please find better reasons to hate me:

    Arete -- a lot of people glanced over the walls and went back to townreading them without really dissecting what's going on, didn't vote Michelle

    What did you glean from the walls? Why does other people not reading them make Arete scum?

    Chemist1422 -- didn't vote Michelle, seems a bit combative and defensive today, has some weird conspiracy going on that we're all out to be misexiled (Jack/Mist/Me) that looks like he's certainly hard defending a partner

    This is in line with my thoughts.

    dyachei -- is probably one of the best players by reputation going into this finale, seemed to get Michelle right without much resistance, POE players seem to all have dya as a scumread so if they start flipping town they might just be right


    Dyslexicon -- really 'off' opening tone, could have bussed Michelle because of their level of conviction, seems to be treating me like an alien with three heads when I push them. Also, keeps using the same dabbing polywhirl gif that Jack is now using, and you can get into a wonderful debate on the WIFOM of that. If I was mafia with Jack and he started using my bit like that, I would be ripping him to shreds in my chat, but there's also a possibility

    Literally not Dizzy using it lol.

    Hally -- completely lacking posts and content that makes you go "really, is this the best this person can do?" Like i.e. +1ing a bunch of big posts by essentially saying "this post gud"

    Did you read my hally stuff yesterday? I agree with this kind-of but it seems like the SPF mindmeld is...a thing? Idk if i trust it yet.

    hey_monkey -- could secretly be an incredible wolf dabbing on us all, keeps getting irrationally angry every time someone tosses praise their way

    This is the best reason for HM to be a wolf....that they are dabbing on us?

    Jackofhearts2005 -- your entire existence, as I'll probably work today to prove a bit in addition to other things I'm doing, but I have read multiple people call your Michelle read TMI, and today your reads/logic do not line up with what I know of villagers. Specifically, there are times where it seems like your read on me is locked in because you need it rather than you're actually evaluating $%#! I say. Even I can look at your overall game and go, 'could be a villager', and think about it, and you are not.

    If mist flips W, after calling you/jack T/T, do you think that "TMI" would clear Jack for you? Or are you tunneled in on this.

    JaggedJimmyJay -- the weird EOD where he doesn't actually want to kill Michelle for a considerable amount of time, the forcedness of his chart, some inconsistent logic regarding 'The Seven'

    What do you think about the interaction analysis done on Jay/Michelle & can you give me a non-michelle reason to TR Jay?

    Master Radishes -- like Radishes has absolutely nailed being a low-key wolf if they are one because even as I see people hammer Mist/Me/Jack and Mist has some conspiracy about us being town, everyone seems to be forgetting Radishes in their POE besides them doing jack$%#! to be towny. They said they were going to be better d2, and I've not seen it at all. Also, Radishes will get angry at this accusation instead of taking the moment to realize that it's right. And now because I've said they'll have that realization in thread because it looks towny, but they still won't do the work.

    Did you read Sf2? Why would Radish, one of the chill, troll players, get upset at this? It feels like you're pre-spinning a narrative here

    Phighter -- I'mm a leave a comment here just so you can quote it Jack and twist it to fill your narrative, because I strongly feel that's all your doing here today. Here is the comment: there is a reason why people have had to sit here and make giant $%#! walls and do analysis on whether I'm scum or not. (Again, sorry folks.)

    Sheppard -- they have so strongly not come out on fire either day. I think I gave them a brain-shorthand style townread of "oh my god look at all this work they asked to do", and yeah it's d2, but have they made a single damn conclusion you've been impressed by? have you even seen that much research/dipping into those post games? has Shepp even scumread anyone yet after looking through past games? Shep seems way more content to read people based on whether or not they give games, and we just saw with Michelle's flip that mafia are almost definitely going to give him games. Unless the team is exactly Chemist/me, 2-3 wolves gave him games. But instead the suss from Shepp IRT all that has been on the people who haven't given him anything, when it should be vice versa. Long story short, it's having his cake and saying he'll eat vegetables too. He gets town read by people like me for asking for the work, but doesn't have to do any work. Also, WTF was that EOD?

    Okay cool so now I know Phi doesn't read my posts.

    Sloonei -- their day one was super bad/sketchy and the way they've played today screams either coaching or they basically had a giant case of being awkward/nervous as a wolf coming out of the gate and they've since calmed down

    Do you think this matches up with Sloonei's wolf pattern or town pattern on meta?

    staypositivefriend -- people have kind of short-hand passed over SPF like they did with Arete, but on a much larger scale. SPF was so blatantly obvious town in sf3, and in this game I'm missing the spark and energy that got me there. I feel like a lot of the posts are "I'm going to type a lot of words and do stuff that looks like work", but then there's no real conclusions. Besides SPF's read on Jack, I have no idea what their reads actually are right now, and I've been fairly actively reading everything.

    What about SPF on Dya? You know, the multi thousand post count spannign push?

    I'm not really sure what the purpose of this exercise was.
    Time 2 REVERSE TINFOIL (is this still tinfoiling? you forum people use bizzare lingo all the time gimme an acronym for this)

    Bolded is me responding/asking.

    I feel like we are reading completely different games - which is saying something when the way I read is already so far off from the rest of you. Bolded are some questiosn for you @Phi.

    You're POE for me but I think a mist or jack flip will be the biggest decider on where you land for me (if I should make it through the night).
    more talk about making it through the night. wants to determine phi by jack and mist flips

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3362)
    ##Unvote Chemist1422

    no hammer pls
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3364)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#3354)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3347)
    1. Does anyone other than Phi have a real, substantiated Jack post? I'm going to do a Jack dive bc I feel that I keep slamming my head against a wall looking to tinfoil and it comes back mostly clean.
    Here are a few interactive reviews that I think you should look over. If you find them disagreeable please say so.

    Hally - 3331

    SPF - 2827

    Me - 2621
    I know the interactions look bad, but I mean a post beyond that. Jack has dome some really sus things this game but the fact the cases have been built only off interactions makes me want to do a more substantial, holistic ISO when I get a chance today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3376)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#3372)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3353)
    Time 2 REVERSE TINFOIL (is this still tinfoiling? you forum people use bizzare lingo all the time gimme an acronym for this)

    Bolded is me responding/asking.

    I feel like we are reading completely different games - which is saying something when the way I read is already so far off from the rest of you. Bolded are some questiosn for you @Phi.

    You're POE for me but I think a mist or jack flip will be the biggest decider on where you land for me (if I should make it through the night).
    going to staple a "this was an exercie and not a full-on full-court murder-everyone press" onto this and give you your post back
    tfw phi doesn't read shep posts
    ##Vote Phighter
    so not reading your incredibly long and sometimes convoluted posts makes someone a wolf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3384)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#3378)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3360)
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_monkey (#3352)
    Let’s nip this one in the $%#!ing bud though. I got up at 6:30 to go to the doctor. I ended up at three clinics/doctors. I had X-rays and a massive bloodwork panel. I came home to nap because I was exhausted and cranky from being around medical professionals who seem to think masks don’t matter. I have not eaten. I have a headache. Okay? Not that you needed to know. But I guess you do.

    I said “I have some $%#! happening today” and mistakenly, I guess, thought that would be enough. I guess it wasn’t. Maybe this is? But if you’re gonna do this, don’t throw out shade without paying attention to what I’ve said. If you have a a problem with the content of my posts, say it. But after today I’m not gonna come back to “gosh monkey has been low key maybe huh isn’t that weird.” Just no. Not even.

    Am I angry here? Bet your $%#!. Am I overreacting? Probably. But after Sheppard misread some of my posts d1, and then earlier today too, sliding that in here feels like a pattern and I was quite up front about my pending absence. I’m not gonna let it be abused like that.
    Hey - I'm really sorry if you're legit busy. I just pointed out something I was thinking about after I typed out the rest of my thoughts. People have differing playstyles and we have....very different communication styles I guess.


    I feel bad for calling out Roro's anger as fake so I'm more hesitant to question it here, but I still dont' fully understand. In WW people are going to bring stuff up like this and I don't think anger is the neccesarily best response. Do you want me to just straight pass you for saying you're busy? No. Am I going to SR you for it? No.

    So what does this mean? - It means when you are "not busy" anymore you're going to have a higher burden in my eyes to make up for it.
    You don't get my "best" response. You get my response. It is what it is.

    d1 I asked about YOUR OWN complaints about your system and it got twisted into some "monkey isn't reading my posts!" though clearly I was. You even repeated this afterward.

    Earlier this phase you posted a breakdown which totally misread several of my posts. That's weird.

    Just now you actually did the thing you accused me of doing - not reading my posts - unless instead you're trying to capitalize on someone not being here. Either way it looks shady. And I'm gonna call you out on that, because one looks like an agenda and the other is just me going to the goddamned doctor and saying I would be gone. (You also remarked on none of the actual content I put up. Just the sort of vague thing that leaves you clear if someone else does something with it. Shady.)

    I don't lie about being gone or busy. I struggle enough here because I'm a yeet-liars person in general. You didn't know, I suppose, but now you do.
    You know getting mad at me isn't going to get me to TR you? I already accepted that I may have just misread you D1 bud but this is not a good look. I mentioned a one liner about how you're less impactful today and you're pulling out paragraphs of anger. The only reason I'm not feeling instant sus here is the aforementioned regret over making that mistake with Roro d1.

    In the hopes you're town: Take a breather and come back to this. You're not even close to my top priority today and I thought I'd be able to get a break from tinfoiling....

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#3382)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#3381)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#3380)
    been in thread for about 2900+ posts

    i placed my order for an entree towards the end of d1

    you have delievered a handful of appetizers but as everyone else gets their dinner I am left waiting for the "Shepphard solve steak dinner"
    Sheppard is mofd likd an eleven course meal of a bunch of fancy gourmet $%#! like raw snails and whatever - some of the courses you'll like, some you'll who tf came up with it, but all of it is still nutritious and a worthwhile experience.
    holy typo batman

    more like*
    this made me actually laugh so $%#!ing hard lol

    I like how Phi responded to my post about Phi not reading my posts by just like....demonstrating that they don't read my posts.


    _____

    This Jack ISO.....I see why people avoid it.....so...many....posts....
    im still not hearing reasoning on why phi is a wolf other than "he's not reading my posts"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3455)
    I think mist/michelle/jack, phi/michelle/jack or mist/michelle/phi are weird $%#! wolf teams.

    If we flip mist, phi, or jack and they are W, where do we go? Our POE doesn't line up that well when it actually hits a wolf.


    .....this is me tinfloiling again isnt it
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3500)
    Wow. I was wrong. Jack/Mist/Michelle is actually so $%#!ing real of a combo. This ISO looks horrible for Mist/Jack.
    immediately backs off what he just said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3543)
    DD1 Mostly Non-Michelle Stuff Jack ISO

    Tried to find posts we aren't already talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#440)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#431)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#423)
    Chem and Phighter are afraid of boxes.
    this is 100% accurate and part of the reason i made that post

    i've been boxed in as a villager in games that ended up in wolf wins because they got too cleared (spec chat inv and visor's low power game where bears hard defending me come to mind)
    Have you tried coming up with memes to keep that from happening?
    This is the best case for Chem/Jack not being teamed in a giant ocean of evidence they could be.

    @Chem, I dont' want to do your work for you (and you're likely scum anyway) but when you say there's a narrative/set-up happening here this is what I mean. Jack clearly sees your fear of being pushed (even if they aren't the one pushing you, they could have a partner setting it up).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#505)
    Ftr, I like Mist’s answer to the box thing.
    Clearly an acknoledgement of the box comment here. Is WIFOM now but post-mist or post-phi flip I think this will be useful for alignment with Jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#813)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#661)
    Early Thoughts

    Less Scumy
    -SPF: seems to be playing the game on a town level more than anyone else so far. Only person I have anything resembling a real Townlean on.
    -Jack doesn't post a lot early but has started to come through later on. This is actually in line with our last game but I kind of neglected Jack. I want to follow along this time and see where we get. I really like P#423. The HM/Sloonei stuff gives me pause for now but I think it may be t/t especially the way only Phighter jumps in and they put it as w/w instantly.
    -Hey_Monkey: Playing very town, seems to be focused on gamesolve & hesitant to even push a conclusion they reach (which I see as a town trait - but obviuosly bc I relate to it)


    Null
    -Roro: is fairly serious compared to what I remember from G7 - I need to re-read and see if this is important. However, this "serious" play has involved what seems like gamesolve. Don't trust it yet but the effort to gamesolve is present so far.
    -Radish: MR is doing MR things but I'm still filing this as "null" for now - I'm not falling into the trap of d1 aggroing him for not reading the first 5 pages again.
    -Dizzy: I have also accepted that I cannot possible read Dizzy so my only choise is that:
    for Dizzy I will TR all posts with a Gif and SR all posts without a Gif.
    Also See the dizzy/phyter/JJJ stuff down the line if it gets interesting. Seems to be dropped on all sides for now.
    -Dyachei: Seems to be attempting to be on the lower postcount of towncore and slide in. Need to see more.
    -Arete is so null for me right now its giving me a headache.

    More Scumy
    -Hally: Really fishing for engagement, tons of posts basically saying "INTERACT". Not entirely sure if thats AI but it's the biggest takeaway so far.
    -Phighter: Very eratic play, denied my question and just straight up said " this is not true" when SPF said they didnt' like the play so far. Big wild card. Is currently tunneled though, which is the strongest case to move to Null.
    -Michelle: Need to see a lot more play here, I know the timezones are awkward but I feel confident I know what Town!Michelle is now and I haven't seen it yet.
    -JJJ: plays so seriously for D1. Very concerned they are going to die today.I hate seeing this nervousness and it seems so forced most of the time.
    -Sloonei: exists. Jumps on bandwagons alot. Gets very defensive at P#473. Need to see gamesolve (see also: Chemist)
    -Chemist: Very vacouous posts. Denied the Sheppard HW (-1000 shep-rep). Not sensing gamesolve desire.
    I wanna just give Sheppard another day forever for stuff that makes me laugh like the Dizzy spoiler but I gotta say, I loathe them coming in and scumleaning all of Phighter, Sloonei and Jay. And tossing Michelle in there to boot.
    I don't put a lot of stake into light wolfslips, but saying that they will "give sheppard another day" is uh....uncomftorable? Also this reasoning of scumleaning sheppard for scumleaning multiple people who had a fight feels so weak. Like every fight has to be T/W? That's too Lvl 1 and Jack knows it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#824)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#695)
    Going to sleep now, parking my vote on Chemist in the hopes this will get some more substantial posts + encourage some homework ( I see you other people not doing it -- and you suck too. I will get to you.)

    ##Vote Chemist1422
    Eh I really don’t think a wolf votes Mist here though.
    See Italics.

    The following is a very bizzare set of what looks like TMI on Sloonei. Pretty sure w!Jack all but clears sloonei here tbh, but I'm sure many of you would read this as WIFOM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1250)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#1201)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1200)
    That’s correct.
    why not?
    If I tell you fully why I’m not reacting to Sloonei pushing me (though ofc I’ll answer questions from him), I think it’ll cramp Sloonei’s style. I’m not concerned about getting chopped. I am after all, unchoppable. His push on me doesn’t change my townread on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1308)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#1259)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1250)
    If I tell you fully why I’m not reacting to Sloonei pushing me (though ofc I’ll answer questions from him), I think it’ll cramp Sloonei’s style. I’m not concerned about getting chopped. I am after all, unchoppable. His push on me doesn’t change my townread on him.
    What if I told you this is a serious vote?
    @staypositivefriend

    Since you asked, Sloonei sometimes makes up reads as a townie on D1 to see where $%#! goes. Which is why I didn’t really want to engage with his vote on me. If I say “there’s a not insignificant chance this vote is bait” then it affects what bites Sloonei gets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1541)
    @dyachei

    If Michelle flips wolf, what is your take away from that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1619)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1616)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1606)
    I don’t know what to do with Phighter telling us he has wolfteam indicative posts with 6 different players.
    I wanted to keep the chart as honest as possible and one of my biggest gripes with JJJ was him leaving himself out.
    Can you point out the posts that indicate you and Dya are wolves together?

    I’m just kidding. I’ll see if they exist myself.
    Did you ever get to this Jack? I missed it in the ISO.






    _____________


    Conclusions & Other Stuff Aka What Am I Doing With This Info


    Before ISO W Equity List:

    Mist
    Phi
    Jack

    Post ISO W Equity List:

    Right now the difference in their equity is close enough to my margin of error I don't want to really hard call the order as hard now. Jack somehow got worse, and that may bc Jack's D2 has been a bit better (at least feels that way) and I mostly read D1.

    I'm leaving my vote on Phi for reasons I will explain shortly, mostly related to Hally and MR.


    Jack has some scum stuff outside the Michelle connection - mostly TMI on Sloonei, a couple lack of follow ups, and some dubious conclusions. I am not including the anti-town meta that matches the previous Jack games I found to be scumtells here, and you probably shouldn't either.

    Out of Mist/Jack/Phi there's so likely to be a wolf that I, hater of the conensus, agree.

    I have 2 questions here:

    1. Which is more Scummy?

    2. Which gives more information?

    I weight these in that order. If someone is more scummy, who cares about "info"? This is the champs, we all know info kills are terrible ideas most of the time.

    But, for me, info is often one of my tie-breakers. Which of these scumreads am I leaning for more info?

    .....None. They all are so involved I think we can learn a lot from any of them. So why bring this up?

    Because the real answer is this: Who do we suspect that we want more info on? The way I see it is this:
    Jack gives us Sloonei info (learned this from my ISO), Mist gives Dizzy info, and Phi gives MR/Hally info (but slight - not much. Need to ISO him to really determine more here).

    So here's my breakdown. Some results will be WIFOM these players are some of the most wild I've ever played with short of LA Gaming Circle's "Jeromy".

    Jack Flip

    W-> Slooeni likely T, Phi Likely T, Mist high potential W
    T-> Sloonei WIFOM, Phi WIFOM, Mist T equity increase


    Mist Flip

    W-> Jack high potential W, Phi T equity increase, Dizzy T equity increase
    T-> Jack WIFOM, Phi W equity increase, Dizzy W equity decrease


    Phi Flip [I think the MR stuff is all WIFOM, their fights are kinda dumb tbh]

    W-> Jack T equity increase, Hally T equity increase, Mist no change
    T-> Jack W equity increase, Hally W equity increase, Mist no change




    As the day goes on if these are the three in the POE without a major change in their individual scum equity then I plan on evaluating them more based on Hally, Sloonei, and Dizzy's place on my readlist (and they are all currently decently high except except Hally). Right now I lean Phi bc of the Hally equity. I will update as the progression changes.

    And of course, any uptick in W equity for any of these players is the ultimate tiebreaker.
    using mist, phi, and jack flips to evaluate other players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3550)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#819)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#681)
    Does anyone strongly oppose Mist being one of The Seven
    When you inevitably add me, I wanna be Aquaman.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#3509)
    I’m finding myself thrown a bit by the similarities between Phighter’s defense of Michelle and Mist’s defense of Jack. It’s not that the content of the defenses are similar, but rather that they seem similarly thin. For Mist to be considering this view of Jack as town, and even the broader conspiracy, is okay on its own. But to build one’s entire theory of the game around that is something more, and harder to believe.
    Sorry can you clarify what you mean here? As phi/mist/jack can't be W/W/W. Or do you mean you think its Phi/Jack t/t and Michelle/mist as w/w?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#819)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#681)
    Does anyone strongly oppose Mist being one of The Seven
    When you inevitably add me, I wanna be Aquaman.
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#3505)
    admittedly, i'm feeling a little rushed today. there are a lot of angles that i want to explore, but i won't be around for the last ~12 hours or so of the day, and i feel pressured to come up with a vote & reasoning that i feel satisfied with before tonight ends

    i have been largely considering the angle of: "the final mafia are in jack/phighter/chemist". i have not discounted this angle, but i am certainly less confident about it than i was in the past. the team being in these three players would explain why chemist is suddenly protecting jack and phighter after an entire game of being suspicious of them - but it would not explain the fact that both phighter and jack are pushing to get chemist chopped now. while this 2/3 is an appealing solution, i'm not convinced that it is the solution. i want to explore other avenues and figure out who might fit more neatly into that list

    i'm going to start with a distrustfall and see where things take me:

    Chemist1422: seems generally overwhelmed & frustrated with the progression of the game today. there are a lot of logical inconsistencies with their play (ie: their reaction test toward michelle), and their read progression does not track particularly well at all. their iso on jack felt like it was an excuse to join a counterwagon against michelle. in short, chemist has reacted to pressure by burning through their posts while digging the hole they are in deeper and deeper for themselves. it is possible for chemist to be town in that situation, but generally speaking, that type of attitude is more indicative of mafia

    dyachei: has spent a lot of the game complaining/being frustrated, and the gamesolving they have done has largely been invisible to me. they have remained consistently passive and frustrated even with a scum flip, and it's not exactly clear to me what their plan to solve the game is. furthermore, their is so full of appeals that speak absolutely nothing to me (ie: "this person should be able to read me better, this is just who i am", etc)

    Dyslexicon - playing very reactively, thought process is generally unclear and not always easy to follow. seems overly confident about their reads in a game where i do not expect players to feel confident

    Hally - lowkey presence today, and hasn't impacted the game as much as i would expect them even if their thoughts are solid

    hey_monkey - very uncomfortable interactions with michelle. she was incredibly fixated on michelle throughout d1 while never once taking a stance on her alignment. not very clear what her reads are today, either

    Jackofhearts2005 - bad progression on michelle at the end of day one

    JaggedJimmyJay - jagged has perhaps gotten more easily frustrated and impatient with the players in this game than i would expect him to if he was town

    master radishes - diminished presence and generally does not stand out very much in the game. awkward read on michelle on d1 (even tho i like their explanation for it)

    phighter - terrible, terrible defense of michelle on day one. bad and unclear reads today. seems interested in throwing out unsubstantiated paranoia and complaints in the name of "bringing home a pelt", but the process just isnt there

    sheppard - their thought process is difficult to track a lot of the time (moreso on d2 than on d1), and their efforts to create paranoia could be an attempt to save the scum from a bad situation

    sloonei - sloonei has not had the overwhelmingly towny energy from the get-go like he did in the sf3. his response to being scumread on d1 was overly snarky

    arete - arete has kept a low presence throughout the game and tone aside, they did defend michelle. that defense of michelle is a point to be considered regardless of how i feel about it
    I hate that I mindmelded here about Arete, HM, and Hally.

    Hard disagree about Radish though. I had a moment of doubt today, but I'm pretty sure this is T! Radish and will only tinfoil it once I stop ripping my hair out about the other town "core"



    On that note,
    @Master Radishes can you link me some wolf games? Ty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#819)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#3500)
    Wow. I was wrong. Jack/Mist/Michelle is actually so $%#!ing real of a combo. This ISO looks horrible for Mist/Jack.
    can you show me some of the choice stuff you are finding?
    Just posted a bit, there's a few quotes but I didn't MQ them all from Jack's ISO. There's just so much...d1 interactions that do not look normal (or even normal for Jack).
    but doesn't give me on this, just the few posts from jack's iso. the burden is on the person making the case to provide the posts

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    Sticky: Completed was working on my shep case but I'm not sure it's...

    was working on my shep case but I'm not sure it's important anymore. I'll post what I've already done but it was long and I was falling asleep during it.
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    Sticky: Completed i've noticed jack confirming his thoughts on you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9195)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9192)
    @Sloonei What's your biggest concern about the solve right now? You have only two choices, what is making it tough to choose between them if anything?
    Jack looks a lot cleaner than Sheppard today. Jack has said the right things at every turn. He’s been composed, nothing he’s said has come off as untruthful, and his approach resembles my own more closely than Sheppard’s.

    Shep, on the other hand, looks like he has more urgency. He looks a bit more... I don’t want to say panicked, but flustered, maybe? He’s more focused on solving than I am, which is something mafia might be inclined to do here: they need to convince you three that the other two of us are better chops than them.


    On the surface, Jack’s day looks better. But it might be the exact opposite of that: Jack looks better because he has composed himself and knows that his path to victory is to maintain that exact appearance. Sheppard, meanwhile, can easily just look flustered because he’s a civilian who wants to solve the game right here and right now, and who believes he has. He looks more frantic, but that could be because he hasn’t given a second thought to how he looks right now.

    I also have noted that both of them are firmly pushing the other while maintaining that I am town. I don’t quite know what to make of that. I’ve felt from the outset that I am the most secure town read in our little POE, so I’d be the toughest one to push. But any path to mafia victory needs to go through me. Maybe they just think i’d be easier to tinfoil when I’m 1 out of 2 option instead of 1 out of 3.

    I’d be interested to hear what you all (dizzy/dya/radish) think of this dynamic.
    i've noticed jack confirming his thoughts on you through solving than I've seen from shep. and shep doesn't actually seem to be solving much
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    Sticky: Completed do you guys agree with the last bit there...

    do you guys agree with the last bit there @Dyslexicon and @Master Radishes
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    Sticky: Completed ok so like you need to stop saying it's fueled by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9084)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9082)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9043)
    Its hard to have faith when I've been bad faith pushed by a townie
    I just need to point out that it's literally impossible for the push to be in bad faith.
    Fuelded by emotion, not by solving. That's bad faith no matter alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9083)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9050)
    Same question: Have you read my Jack case?

    I spent a lot of time curating cases from other confirmed town, rereading, etc. To make that case and I think only jack and MR read it.
    Yeah, I read it. I think Jack's criticism of it is pretty valid. I went through all of the confirmed town's ISOs and interaction analysis myself already today and posted the result. I wasn't very convinced of scum!Jack world after it.
    Lol

    Ggs Jack. Good luck vs sloonei tomorrow
    ok so like you need to stop saying it's fueled by emotion when it's not. it's you trying to dismiss my case repeatedly by minimizing it. this is a form of discrediting me and it tends to be a wolf tactic. you aren't attacking the case, you're attacking me.

    It needs to stop. Now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9085)
    Hm. I wish I could have a meeting with @Master Radishes and @dyachei in private right now. Is there any time you know you'll be able to be around from now until EoD?

    I still think this game is pretty difficult. I'm leaning a bit on Dya's suspicion on Sheppard. He was also the tinfoil I came up with on Phighter Day when asked to case someone else. And there was a reason for that. If I compare in my head, which of these players feels like a town read that goes "I town read them cause they seem town ...... do I though?" similar to how my Hally read felt, then it would be Sheppard.

    Regardless who the last scum is, they are talking a good game, all game and still.

    We can also solve the game by finding the last town. I'm hesitant here too. But I want to look at Jack. In order for Jack to be scum here, these things would've had to happen:
    - Jack/Hally banks on Jack not being the yeet on D2. I have an extremely hard time seeing Hally wanting to go through this whole game alone from that point on with two live JOATs.
    - Jack/Hally banks on the JOAT actually CC-ing Hally on D3. If JOAT doesn't do this, then what probably happens is that Hally is left alive to self resolve and the default yeet is Jack. That leaves only and outed Hally on the team. For this to be the case Jack/Hally would've had to have no doubt that the JOAT would actually counter Hally and be around for that, or Hally made the fake claim bad on purpose.

    ^Both of these things seems like a very, very high risk to take for the scum team. What do you think?
    I think that jack/hally doesn't make much sense. I don't think hally tries to get her partner killed as often as they tried to get jack eliminated

    I don't think hally paints themself into a corner like that anyway. The cc felt more like a panic claim than a full plan to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9090)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9085)
    or Hally made the fake claim bad on purpose.
    I know you're not asking me here, and this sort of question from me might just send you off into more uncertainty but I think it needs to be asked:

    is it possible it was an intentionally bad claim? You knew it was fake right away.
    But then, if it is an intentionally bad claim: why?
    i think it was a panicked claim. i don't think it was intentionally bad. I think hally believed they were a foregone conclusion and claimed to try and at least get the joat out of it. I don't think they expected 3 levels of fake claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9119)
    Every day town wakes up

    Picks the yeet in an hour

    Does some confbias

    yeets that person 48 hours later

    Only time a wolf got yeeted was when the yeet changed halfway through

    anyway guys lets yeet me today so you can start solving the real wolf ##Vote Sheppard
    stop with the AtE

    here's what I've seen today:

    sloonei - trying to solve between jack and sheppard, asking questions of several people trying to figure out some questions about how either of them and hally/michelle make sense of a team

    Jack: looking at sheppard pretty harshly but intently and trying to solve if sloonei could actually be a thing even though it's clear he thinks it's shep. responding to cases

    sheppard: AtEing, dismissing my concerns about him as based on emotion. has made 1 case against jack that was riddled with incorrect assertions and assumptions. yes @Sheppard I read your case and I had read it before and refuted your assertions of TMI already. hasn't really cased sloonei at all. doesn't really appear to be interested in solving today, just wants to push jack
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    Sticky: Completed I'll get to it tomorrow. I've been reading your...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9045)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#9044)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9043)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Also: If I get self yeeted but it gives us the win, so be it. Its hard to have faith when I've been bad faith pushed by a townie for aomething I didn't do. Even sloonei was confused by it. Jack only agreed after I cased him today. I dont think anyone else looks at my ISO and sees what Dya says happened unless its them and their confbiasing.

    But you're right. I need to trust in Dya and that I can get through to them if I need to and show why they're misreading me.

    Walk me through where youre at rn Dizzy
    for something you didn't do? at least try to see things from my perspective shep

    you've blamed me for everything. put me in the poe, taken me out of it only to put me back in it and your cases ALL rely on linking me to someone else. like spf. or hally. or whoever. you've consistently told me I am misreading or misunderstanding when i've been pointing out actions you have been taking

    stop the woe is me talk and make real cases for who you think is scum and why.

    try not to tinfoil about how it must be me again and is MR sure the results were right?
    Did you read my jack case?
    I'll get to it tomorrow. I've been reading your iso and fighting off falling asleep during it all day
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    Sticky: Completed for something you didn't do? at least try to see...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9043)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9038)
    Dya SRs me for something I didnt do that happened pages and pages ago. Do you see a world where that 6 day tunnel ends?
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9038)
    Dya SRs me for something I didnt do that happened pages and pages ago. Do you see a world where that 6 day tunnel ends?
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9042)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9038)
    Dya SRs me for something I didnt do that happened pages and pages ago. Do you see a world where that 6 day tunnel ends?
    Of course. If you are town you need to believe in your follow townies and their ability to reevaluate and keep solving.

    The self vote does nothing good. You may get yeeted, but don't be that player who gets yeeted with a self vote on you.
    Also: If I get self yeeted but it gives us the win, so be it. Its hard to have faith when I've been bad faith pushed by a townie for aomething I didn't do. Even sloonei was confused by it. Jack only agreed after I cased him today. I dont think anyone else looks at my ISO and sees what Dya says happened unless its them and their confbiasing.

    But you're right. I need to trust in Dya and that I can get through to them if I need to and show why they're misreading me.

    Walk me through where youre at rn Dizzy
    for something you didn't do? at least try to see things from my perspective shep

    you've blamed me for everything. put me in the poe, taken me out of it only to put me back in it and your cases ALL rely on linking me to someone else. like spf. or hally. or whoever. you've consistently told me I am misreading or misunderstanding when i've been pointing out actions you have been taking

    stop the woe is me talk and make real cases for who you think is scum and why.

    try not to tinfoil about how it must be me again and is MR sure the results were right?
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    Sticky: Completed it wasnt a 6 day tunnel do you think...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9038)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9037)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9034)
    Its literally optimal bc the way tomorrow will go down if we miss. Plus you SR me anyway so this will let you examine Sloon and jack more
    Don't be the one to self vote. This is literally never optimal. Especially if you are town. And if that is the case, then let's just not miss today. Be a part of figuring this out. Don't just make us miss on purpose and leave it to me and Dya to figure it out. That is not the town spirit I'm looking for here.

    If we miss today, tomorrow is a new day. Me and Dya will have to agree on a read, and we are both capable of reexamining. We could even sleep if we need more time.

    What good does wilfully sacrificing yourself do, other than give us all one less chance to get it right, yourself included?

    It just looks like an icky ploy and I'm frankly a bit annoyed I have to even think about it.
    Dya SRs me for something I didnt do that happened pages and pages ago. Do you see a world where that 6 day tunnel ends? From my POV i either solve the game 100% before EOD today or I have to self vote.
    it wasnt a 6 day tunnel

    do you think statements like these are why i don't think you read my posts? even jack saw that i thought you were town earlier in the game
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    Sticky: Completed the problem is you think everyone plays like you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9021)
    Ah $%#! I just realized something.

    If I get choppped -> F4 has to find wolf between Jack/Sloonei and I just hope my posts help them

    If we chop someone else like jack (and I'm wrong) - > Dya literally always votes me tomorrow which at best puts the wagons at 2-2 which is a RAND for town.

    Which means i have to be 100% on my wolf read TODAY (also bc if i get misyeeted it will tell f4 what to do).
    the problem is you think everyone plays like you

    i am always thorough in deciding who to eliminate even if i think it's 1 person over another.
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    Sticky: Completed my biggest mistake was not explaining my issues...

    my biggest mistake was not explaining my issues with sheppard early enough or well enough
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    Sticky: Completed this is just an "i'm upset to have suspicion"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#9012)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#9009)
    @Jackofhearts2005
    @Sheppard

    What’s the biggest mistake you’ve made in this game?
    Missing the barney tell. Now MR/Dizzy are going to tinfoil me forever when this game should be so $%#!ing easy the wolf is literally RIGHT HERE THIS GAME IS LOCKED
    this is just an "i'm upset to have suspicion" post. and not a "upset we might lose" post. it's more worried about shep's appearance
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    Sticky: Completed at least i know someone's been paying attention

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#8993)
    It is actually bothering me that I feel like I caught Sheppard not actually trying to evaluate me and nobody cares.

    #JustDyaThings
    at least i know someone's been paying attention
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    Sticky: Completed and fwiw, yeah, those arent tmi. jack made it...

    and fwiw, yeah, those arent tmi. jack made it clear for d2 that he thought phi and i were both townier than presented and used those reads to make that post
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    Sticky: Completed welcome to the club, jack! this is what he does...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#8972)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#8968)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#8967)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#8964)
    oh sick it is just jack

    that makes my life easier lol
    Explain.
    You took my post, which was both a case and a summary of cases from confirmed townies (who are some of the best townies in the world) and was like "this case/style doesn't find wolves".

    Now that's desperation.

    You played a good game Jack, but I'm glad we'll all get to finish things up before we get to D7.
    But...my points are valid. You don’t feel like you’re attempting to solve me.

    Adding posts that Jay made about my interactions with Michelle while leaving out the posts he later made about my interactions with Michelle that paint me in a better light does not strengthen your case. It weakens it. Same for taking SPF’s earlier read on my Hally progression when they later decided I was probably town and their 4th most likely wolf with only one wolf in the game.

    Receipts



    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedJimmyJay (#4007)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#4003)
    but I'm kinda comfortable living in a world where the team is exactly Michelle/Chemist/Jack right now.
    How do you feel that this proposed team seems to be playing itself directly into a loss right now (given the ramifications of two dead mafia and two living JOATs)?

    @Jackofhearts2005, I am looking over SF2. Y'all seem to engage each other plenty in that Day 1, and perhaps it's similarly frivolous on your end. On her end it is way more game-relevant. That may just reflect her change in alignment. I'll think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#7366)
    hally gets jack chopped on d2/d3 and then coasts along from the towncred over the next 4/5 chops while praying that they dont get mechanically confirmed by JOAT

    possible, but not likely


    Like you don’t get to hide behind the most convenient reads dead townies ever had to convince people I’m a wolf.

    Or like...you do. It’s a free country. But I don’t understand why a townie would do that.
    welcome to the club, jack! this is what he does and for some reason people eat it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#8978)
    @dyachei

    You scumread Sheppard but when looking for your case against them, I found a bunch of moderately pro-Sheppard posts when you were looking at Hally spew.

    Looking at these again, how do you feel about them?

    And this is where I tried to quote them but there are 30+ images somewhere? So here’s the posts I mean.

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...42#post4342442

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...58#post4342258
    yeah because early in the game i was v reading him until i looked closer at what he was saying and how he was adapting to new info
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    Sticky: Completed your continual dismissal of my concerns with your...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#8896)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#8890)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#8884)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#8881)
    Sorry, I am asking a lot of things.

    What I'm trying to understand is this:
    What specifically do you see in Sheppard's progression on you, and why is that a problem? I don't need a full case wall post, just a few quick points about the progression.
    he started off null and kept describing me in terms that weren't really...null. they were on the wolfy end of null. Like he had one read where he described me as "trying to slide into" town consensus. That's not really how you describe a v read. there were other similar things later. He also described on d1 that the key difference between my town and wolf games are that I speak to wolves in the early game a lot compared to villagers as a wolf. He also made sure to let people know to keep me out of their towncores when almost no one was doing that except dobby, who knows how I play very, very well.

    by d2 we had killed michelle and I hadn't interacted with her much. he included me in a lot of worlds and linked me to a few different players. he didnt really do much pushing on me specifically though. by d3 i was in even more worlds and starting to be a push.

    when the hally pressure finally started, he linked us, as well to push his case. I specifically asked him at a point after hally flipped, how I could still be a wolf read of his when the key difference to my game hadn't happened this game. I hadn't interacted with michelle OR hally much in early game (or much at all tbh). Remember he was using this as a reason to loudly tell people not to towncore me quickly. He didn't really respond to me on this. He had me as firm wolf

    He denies he had me as a wolf for the whole game but he basically did and when the evidence he found was brought up to refute his read, he ignored it because it wasn't convenient to his reads.

    and he was one of the people joking most often I was still a wolf when arete had claimed
    @Sheppard, response?
    I just don't think its a fair characterization. I think Dya's been tunneled on this false idea for so long that its hard for me to even justify defending. It's the same points over and over again that just...aren't true? And everyone knows they aren't true, like has anyone at any point been like "Oh yeah that's what Sheppard did WRT Dya" when they post this stuff?

    I've been trying to be nice but this is just an emotion-fueled ATE/OMGUS combo coming from a Frustrated townie.

    My progression on Dya was:

    Null > Hey Don't TR yet guys > Okay they are town > (convo with SPF) okay maybe they ARE null > lets see their equity pending a wolf flip from Jack > okay i think its dya/hally based on these recent hard defenses of each other > hally flipped W (Dya had 3 early game interactions with hally, the exact average interactions in Dya's early game, so this still fits in their scum meta) >okay yeah its likely to be Dya W but I dont want to tunnel today in case I'm wrong.

    If that's a scum progression, then I have a bridge to sell you.
    your continual dismissal of my concerns with your progression are also problematic. you just dismiss me or ignore me. and don't worry, I'm planning on showing this in your upcoming isos
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    Sticky: Completed he started off null and kept describing me in...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#8881)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#8879)
    @Sloonei, now I'm confused, you asked me where he has said it because you didnt remember a v read from him on me, only a null read
    Sorry, I am asking a lot of things.

    What I'm trying to understand is this:
    What specifically do you see in Sheppard's progression on you, and why is that a problem? I don't need a full case wall post, just a few quick points about the progression.
    he started off null and kept describing me in terms that weren't really...null. they were on the wolfy end of null. Like he had one read where he described me as "trying to slide into" town consensus. That's not really how you describe a v read. there were other similar things later. He also described on d1 that the key difference between my town and wolf games are that I speak to wolves in the early game a lot compared to villagers as a wolf. He also made sure to let people know to keep me out of their towncores when almost no one was doing that except dobby, who knows how I play very, very well.

    by d2 we had killed michelle and I hadn't interacted with her much. he included me in a lot of worlds and linked me to a few different players. he didnt really do much pushing on me specifically though. by d3 i was in even more worlds and starting to be a push.

    when the hally pressure finally started, he linked us, as well to push his case. I specifically asked him at a point after hally flipped, how I could still be a wolf read of his when the key difference to my game hadn't happened this game. I hadn't interacted with michelle OR hally much in early game (or much at all tbh). Remember he was using this as a reason to loudly tell people not to towncore me quickly. He didn't really respond to me on this. He had me as firm wolf

    He denies he had me as a wolf for the whole game but he basically did and when the evidence he found was brought up to refute his read, he ignored it because it wasn't convenient to his reads.

    and he was one of the people joking most often I was still a wolf when arete had claimed
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    Sticky: Completed Sloonei, now I'm confused, you asked me where he...

    @Sloonei, now I'm confused, you asked me where he has said it because you didnt remember a v read from him on me, only a null read
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    Sticky: Completed Sloonei these were as recent as d5

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloonei (#8853)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#8849)
    my biggest concern about shep is he claimed to v read me early but that never really is a thing. he basically gives himself an out on michelle when talking to her. and his hally interactions look...stiff? Moreover as new information was introduced, his read on me didn't really take that into account.
    when did he claim to town read you? When I scanned his posts the other day, I only ever saw him place you as a “null” read on Day 1.

    I still have not been able to find the development in Shep’s read that you’ve been suspicious of. I would like to be able to see it. If you have the time, it would help me a lot if you could articulate why, and in which posts, you feel that his read on you has been problematic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#7657)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#7645)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#7590)
    But I thought it was Dya from how they acted last day.

    Inb4 Arete is just reaction testing and really tracked Radish or Jack or something instead
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#7610)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#7598)
    Arete, who do you think it is then, if it's not dya?
    I was so sure it was Dya. The Phighter yeet didn't feel good in the gut at the end of the day. I was being a bit stubborn about not wanting to let him go just in case, as I didn't want him to get away with it if he open wolfed and tried everything he could to not get the scum yeeted. Turns out he did do that, but was still town. =p Also. Can I just have enough salt to point out that Phighter took cred for the no kill and that that was a real thought. I will certainly take note of what I learned from last day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#7634)
    I still absolutely refuse to consider Sloonei and Shep (+mech clears).

    My only possible tinfoils are Monkey and Jack.



    And dya because we broke modbot yesterday and it messed up Arete's results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#7640)
    I was 100 % going to vote Dya here. Now I'm just going to bed. I'll lett this all mull in my head and not try to hard. Until I wake up and try to hard.

    you know, i've held back a lot when dealing with these wrong read but i have something to say.

    almost all of you decided on d1 or d2 i was a wolf and closed your minds to the fact thta i might be town. as a result you disregarded my reads entirely and stopped discussing with me.

    this is really terrible play in this game specifically. This should be the game where you show your best play. instead you basically ostracized me early and wouldn't interact unless it was to tell me you didn't like my attitude.

    none of you cared that i read phighter town

    You only cared that i did things only a super obvious wolf would do...like hard defend a partner. I'm insulted by your level of disrespect for me and my game. One of you is a wolf, but most of you aren't. you didn't even really talk to me while you were wolf reading me. you tuned me out instead because you didn't care about what i had to say.



    there are 3 clears, not two

    villa to wolf:
    arete
    dizzy
    sloonei
    jack
    sheppard
    radishes
    monkey
    I'm sorry Dya! I think we have extremeley different playstyles/communication styles. Also kind of annoying that my first major D2 wall (Dya = T, SPF = W or they both W/W) was so far off the mark

    Now that we have the mech clears, who do you SR? You did the biggest hally ISO of all of us yesterday I think
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#8076)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#8071)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#8044)
    Also, here’s where wolf strategies go.

    Hally - Push to keep regular POE enforced, specifically an eventual Jack, Phighter and Dya chop while looking good and townie.

    Shep - Push to break up the regular poe. Tinfoil worlds everywhere. Case partner. Do outlandish things and look for reactions. All to look townie? To set up a winning bus on Hally? This $%#! doesn’t match.

    Radishes - Be less present player on edge of POE. Buddy consensus suspects. Look super comfortable while actually shaking because neither wolf is more trusted than the towncore. Bus Hally because eeeeh can’t support a Jack vote? Should have planned out the strategy better if this is it.

    Sloonei - Be townSloon as possible to go deep. Agree with Dizzy/Radishes meta reads to endear self to town. Don’t actually push to set up any townies besides Phighter and Jack, the later of which he knows he won’t likely get a mischop on. Hope the town does that work for you? Just really buddy the $%#! out of Sheppard. Kill Jay while he’s pocketed. Bus Hally cause that’s what tea leaves say when several players have cold feet on Jack and people are looking at Hally. This is like....doable, considering vast suspicion on Phighter/Jack/Dya and to a lesser extent, Radishes. Would have had to play a great game and get boned by mechanics.

    Monkey - Push to keep regular POE enforced, specifically an eventual Jack, Phighter and Dya chop while looking good and townie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheppard (#8057)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#8034)
    Here's my concern with Shep (and I've been suspicious of him most of the game): look at his wolf read of me. He looks through my old games and finds a pattern. As a wolf I tend to talk to wolves more. He flips on his previous villa read if me early and even then admonishes ppl to keep me in the poe. But when he wolf reads me, part of it is based in the theory I'm a good wolf who is identical as town and that I talk to partners a lot. He then links me to jack, who was hallys preferred Elim for talking with him often d1. I have already spoken about how I was a needed miselim

    When he outs his hally case, they are already getting suspicion. He posts it. I even question him about the fact that I hadn't interacted with hally much and all of a sudden that reason doesn't matter anymore. This guy did a lot of work to keep me in the poe day to day. He made cases every day making me a wolf. And most of you just listened and nodded along. Which is whatever. But most of the rest of the people still alive didn't work to keep me in the poe. I also pointed out to Shep he called me a good wolf then pushed me for a hard defense of hally (even when they were about to fake claim). That's not something a good wolf does (monkey agreed with him here that it would have been a good move if hally never had pressure or something).

    When I look at the cases Shep has made, I see someone who spent a lot of time putting a villager in the poe and ignoring it when the reasons for previous reads no longer work. He never reevaluated.
    Dya, I have a lot of respect for your skill at this game. But that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook wolftells I find or posts I found wolfy. You were my top non-conensus SR, I found your play wolfy. We can talk in post-game chat about this if you want. Looking back it's probably just our communication styles and the difficulty with typing/etc. you've had this game, but I wasn't the only one who found you wolfy.
    you're being entirely dismissive of what I'm ACTUALLY saying versus what you think I'm saying.

    this isn't an OMGUS. it's how your cases evolved to always include me, even when your evidence was found to be untrue. like the wolf tell of talking frequently to partners. you found that in the games provided, it wasn't a tell i knew i had (thanks btw) but when hally flipped wolf, it didn't change your mind about me being a wolf. why? i had very few interactions with hally at all. so your wolf tell was now not occuring and it changed nothing for you. your trajectory remained the same

    you tried to link me to several players, like jack (and hally) throughout the game. you never once reconsidered me specifically. I have always known that I'm a villager, so I'm keenly aware you've been pushing a villager all game and were basically setting me up to be miselimmed all game. that's something i mostly see from wolves. Your trajectory and agenda regarding me literally did not change at all until arete outed their read.

    can you understand at least that that's wolfy in a vacuum?

    you've dismissed me repeatedly throughout the game when i tried to bring up that the things you thought you had on me were no longer true. this is another such instance. why are you so worried about me bringing this up?

    so you can talk to me after the game all you want about how you think i'm wolfy as $%#!. I don't really care. i'm looking at your actions IN THIS GAME. i've preoccupied a few of your actions and cases. it's simply a part of your play that i want addressed and acknowledged.

    even when i'm lock $%#!ing clear people arent interacting with me about my posts

    @Arete
    @Dyslexicon
    @hey_monkey
    @Jackofhearts2005
    @Master Radishes
    @Sloonei

    you all need to look at my original post and give me your thoughts on it. I don't want to hear about the rest of his game initially (though you can add that part later). I want you to seriously contemplate what I'm saying here and if you think that this might be something to investigate instead of waving your hands and saying sheppard is just a villager

    I was super excited to play with all of you and now I'm just super disappointed that I did. I'm a good town player and it still feels like no one gives a $%#! about what I think or the work I've been doing
    Yeah I mean, feel free to investigate me (you and the others you tagged).

    also RE: the bolded-> You know I posted a D2 wall that put you as T before I had a long conversation with SPF that made me regress that decision right? One of my entire goals/plans on D4 was to try to avoid tunneling on you in case I was wrong.

    I was just trying to respond to you because you seem upset with me for SRing you in general, and you have been all game.
    @Sloonei these were as recent as d5
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    Sticky: Completed my biggest concern about shep is he claimed to v...

    my biggest concern about shep is he claimed to v read me early but that never really is a thing. he basically gives himself an out on michelle when talking to her. and his hally interactions look...stiff? Moreover as new information was introduced, his read on me didn't really take that into account.

    my biggest concern with jack is that he's kind of all over the place and it's hard to read. would need to do a more in depth iso of him at this point to get you much more.

    my biggest concern with you sloonei is that I've basically v read you all game and like a lot of what you're putting out there but i think you're probably a good enough wolf to be able to do that as well
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