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  1. Sticky: Also has been noted that there's been like,...

    Also has been noted that there's been like, literally 0 resistance to the Kevan wagon!!!
  2. Sticky: Hmm, noted!!!! I figured a 6-person wagon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#771)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#765)
    Would you rather lynch Steele or Kevan today, if you had the choice?
    holding off on this for now because it’s very important to see what kevan has to say and i don’t want to take the pressure off of him to post them
    Hmm, noted!!!!

    I figured a 6-person wagon would be fine to leave while exploring other options, didn't factor in that half the people I'd want to see on changing notions were already there, oops!

    ...It's just sort of difficult when a bunch of people haven't voted yet, hoping that changes though!!
  3. Sticky: I see you're making your way through the thread...

    I see you're making your way through the thread here, Catty; can you give a full readlist when you have?

    Doesn't have to have in-depth thoughts for everyone, just a general sketch of where your thoughts are at would be appreciated!!!!
  4. Sticky: That's something I've noticed as well; his seems...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKay (#760)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#757)
    Ill have to see what Kevan's reads are to see whether or not it'll make me want to vote off him. But for now I don't see a reason to unvote

    I am interested in the switches to steele and drums though (the less active players here). drums made a post that seemed promising but hasn't followed up yet, and steele has just really been silent and unconfrontational. lets see how these next two hours go
    It really is interesting cuz now we're back to KruZe with the most votes. XD Hmmm. Something is fishy here.
    That's something I've noticed as well; his seems the most static at the moment!!!

    Which makes some sense, we've got:
    Ash Lael - Was pretty adamant there on KruZe
    !-!22-2-7 - Was also fairly adamant on him, but was also looking at Kevan
    Fleur - Asleep, will likely not be here for EoD (not alignment-indicative)
    Legend Dan Hoffman - Hasn't been around lately, I think? Don't remember if he'll be back for EoD or not!

    Then we had the Kevan wagon increase, much of which seemed to be people who were mostly just settling for a low-poster that wasn't getting townread; which dismantled a bit after I left to see how people would react towards another wagon possibility... not sure what to read into that, though seems like something notable for the future anyways!!!

    Also have the 4 people not voting which is actually notable because it comprises nearly a third of the game, on which it's noted that RagingIke left and rejoined!!
  5. Sticky: For what it's worth, I'd still likely lynch Kevan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#757)
    Ill have to see what Kevan's reads are to see whether or not it'll make me want to vote off him. But for now I don't see a reason to unvote

    I am interested in the switches to steele and drums though (the less active players here). drums made a post that seemed promising but hasn't followed up yet, and steele has just really been silent and unconfrontational. lets see how these next two hours go
    For what it's worth, I'd still likely lynch Kevan over KruZe here; just not comfortable with stagnant wagons around EoDs, as I find that wagon movement around now can be particularly interesting (who joins a wagon, who doesn't, who pushes their reads, who seems to sheep and/or be opportunistic, activity/inactivity, etc.), especially on day 1!!!

    Going to actually look into KruZe again, the Kevan vote was actually particularly interesting in light of his earlier thoughts!!
  6. Sticky: Now it's time for EOD HYPE LET'S GO!!!!!!!! ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKay (#745)
    Okay, so what now?
    Now it's time for EOD HYPE LET'S GO!!!!!!!!

    TIME FOR A MAFIA LYNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. Sticky: My apologies if you're town; however, I would...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (#740)
    So, I'll start with the side note.

    It's clear that I have spent the entire day reading up. A reasonable reaction to wasting an entire day reading up only to be mislynched is resentment & never wanting to play with those players or on that forum ever again. I am angry right now. This lynch is ridiculous & infuriating. Obviously, I'd say that regardless of my alignment. Now that that's out of the way, I have a few things to say...
    My apologies if you're town; however, I would also add that it is never too late to stop fighting, if you are!!!

    I will be continuing to follow your posts and am still interested in your thoughts!!
  8. Sticky: I'd sort of clumped Kevan/RagingIke/Steele into a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#741)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#695)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#689)
    ##Vote No Lynch

    Just seeing if this unvotes (I think it does).


    Assuming it works, I am specifically looking for a low-posting player to put my vote towards (as I mentioned earlier).
    Click the empty checkbox next to the vote button to unvote!!!

    I'd suggest taking a look at some of the lower-posters yourself since you're around, lots of people with an ISO of less than 20 posts which should not take long to go through, considering most aren't wallposts!!!!

    If you haven't got the time though, I'd still suggest somewhere between Ser Kevan/Steele!!
    well you said this not too long ago so I'm curious as to how you forgot him already

    yes id prefer steele. after reading his ISO it seems that half of his few posts are about the forum formatting/lingo and the other is somewhat substance. The most substance he's posted is a read on everyone where he concludes kruze and ash as is biggest susses (preferring Ash). However he doesn't clarify the sus on ash when asked and said he'd get around to it soon

    he hasn't gone around to it yet so to me they're just susses that haven't gone anywhere
    I'd sort of clumped Kevan/RagingIke/Steele into a group at that point, of people who hadn't really said much that I'd be fine with lynching, so... yeah, I forgot at that point!!!

    Would you rather lynch Steele or Kevan today, if you had the choice?

    Speaking of which, that reminds me that Drums hasn't actually returned which has been noted; I was looking forward to that!!!
  9. Sticky: Wouldn't you like to know!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#737)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#736)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#733)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#731)
    Exciting wagon on Kevan so far, this is pretty hype!!!! Let's see if we can't make this EoD more interesting though:

    ##Vote RagingIke297

    @Zen Blade What do you think of this as a wagon?
    what made you prefer this wagon over Steele?
    His most recent vote/post just piqued my interest, wasn't thinking about Steele; why, is that a wagon which you'd prefer?
    If he says he prefers Steele, are you gonna switch?
    Wouldn't you like to know!!!!
  10. Sticky: Hey !-!22-22-7, any update on that Kevan read?...

    Hey !-!22-22-7, any update on that Kevan read? It's been a while!!!

    On that note, will be out for a few minutes, but will be here for EoD!!!!
  11. Sticky: His most recent vote/post just piqued my...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#733)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#731)
    Exciting wagon on Kevan so far, this is pretty hype!!!! Let's see if we can't make this EoD more interesting though:

    ##Vote RagingIke297

    @Zen Blade What do you think of this as a wagon?
    what made you prefer this wagon over Steele?
    His most recent vote/post just piqued my interest, wasn't thinking about Steele; why, is that a wagon which you'd prefer?
  12. Sticky: Exciting wagon on Kevan so far, this is pretty...

    Exciting wagon on Kevan so far, this is pretty hype!!!! Let's see if we can't make this EoD more interesting though:

    ##Vote RagingIke297

    @Zen Blade What do you think of this as a wagon?
  13. Sticky: Berz Catty91 Drums Ser Kevan of Blackcrown...

    @Berz
    @Catty91
    @Drums
    @Ser Kevan of Blackcrown

    When you're around, if you could drop a vote that'd be appreciated; don't worry, there is no maj for today!!!

    Yes, even if you haven't read up completely; you can always change it later if needed as long as you're still around!!!!
  14. Sticky: Hmm, Kevan vote has been noted, in that case!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#714)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#703)
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#699)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#691)
    Okay; has your read changed/been updated with his further posts lately?

    Is Daniel the person you want to lynch today/where you think your vote would be most useful at the moment?

    Also, I see your post later on; was asking you to vote since... you're around right now, and the others aren't!!!
    Seems like it's either going to be KruZe or Kevan. I don't have anyone that I particularly want to lynch. Seems like tying the vote could be useful for evaluation later so I'll do that
    ##Vote Ser Kevan of Blackcrown
    What are your own personal individual reads on KruZe/Kevan?

    Can you talk about how your read on Daniel has developed?

    What other reads do you have, who's your top townread(s)?
    I think KruZe saying that he is town over and over again is a horrible strategy, anyone can do that regardless of alignment. Kevan hasn't really stood out and is saying he's only periodically around and still catching up, I think scum tries harder to save themselves here. Still not a fan of Daniel, I think he might just be trying to be helpful but I'm cynical and don't know him so it feels fake to me. I feel like Ash playing a character is trying to hide, not a fan of that. Still feeling pretty good about Legend Dan and Zen, I don't think anything they've said since I've last talked about them downgrades their townleans. That's all I got rn
    Hmm, Kevan vote has been noted, in that case!!!!
  15. Sticky: It sounds like it should make sense to you as to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#711)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#709)
    Hey Zen Blade, let's say Kruze/Kevan/Berz just weren't options today for some reason; who would you want to lynch then?
    Ara you keep asking me this, and I keep telling you the same thing. I have 4-5 people on that list.

    The problem we have right now is 5-7 players seem to be offline, and I am not confident they will be back to check in or revote or offer a defense or anything else.


    Several (Raging and Drums and Steele, for example), are getting passes with just one or two lines that some folks think "sounds village". Their inactivity is being rewarded.
    It sounds like it should make sense to you as to why we're not just going for the 0-poster, because there are people who have actually posted that have not necessarily been towny, and most people aren't saying that they have!!!

    Consider my asking more... prodding you to start your own wagon that is not a 0-poster if you want; you've a perfectly good vote that can be changed whenever you like!!!!

    We're also still over 2 hours until EoD; I wouldn't consider these wagons fixed, or the lynch being certain at the moment!!
  16. Sticky: Hey Zen Blade, let's say Kruze/Kevan/Berz just...

    Hey Zen Blade, let's say Kruze/Kevan/Berz just weren't options today for some reason; who would you want to lynch then?
  17. Sticky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bLkcCZFKvA

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#702)
    Season 7, Game 8: Last Words Mafia [The Mafia Championship] Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 KruZe !-!22-22-7 (52), Ash Lael (65), Fleur (46), Legend Dan Hoffman (34)
    4 Ser Kevan of Blackcrown Arapocalypse (131), Daniel (63), DeKay (64), RagingIke297 (19)
    1 Ash Lael Steele (12)
    1 Legend Dan Hoffman KruZe (92)
    5 Not voting Berz (0), Catty91 (22), Drums (13), Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (14), Zen Blade (40)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 11:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, June 2nd, 2020. There are 1591153260000 remaining.
  18. Sticky: What are your own personal individual reads on...

    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#699)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#691)
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#664)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#660)
    can you remind me why you're votes on me again? is it only for the questionnaire? I posted a view links showing its just a custom in my home forum (with that question on scum team being asked in particular). Does your sus on me move beyond that?
    Needed to jump in there real quick before it looked like Ara was defending you? I put my vote there because I felt like people were going to give you a free pass for posting that questionnaire and "stirring up" activity. I wanted to see if it being there bothered you, it's not much pressure but it's still a bit.
    Okay; has your read changed/been updated with his further posts lately?

    Is Daniel the person you want to lynch today/where you think your vote would be most useful at the moment?

    Also, I see your post later on; was asking you to vote since... you're around right now, and the others aren't!!!
    Seems like it's either going to be KruZe or Kevan. I don't have anyone that I particularly want to lynch. Seems like tying the vote could be useful for evaluation later so I'll do that
    ##Vote Ser Kevan of Blackcrown
    What are your own personal individual reads on KruZe/Kevan?

    Can you talk about how your read on Daniel has developed?

    What other reads do you have, who's your top townread(s)?
  19. Sticky: Dang, stay safe out there/good luck!!!! When...

    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#698)
    im in central wisconsin and this is bout to run me over with purple, phone is charging so I'll phone post if needed, wish me luck, keepin an eye outside and and eye on the game will try to reply when I can but hard for me to concentrate on this game at the moment

    Dang, stay safe out there/good luck!!!!

    When you have time, did you have an answer as to who your ideal top two wagons would be for EoD?
  20. Sticky: As an aside, unrelated but I've actually somewhat...

    As an aside, unrelated but I've actually somewhat been enjoying the more casual play in the game so far just in general!!! Makes me feel like not threadsitting for a bit won't result in an hour of catching up!!! Anyways, just really been enjoying getting to know you all; nothing better than a bit of murder to get hyped about together!!!!

    I also hope I haven't been overwhelming the thread too much post-wise; been actively trying to scale back a bit, and I think I actually won't hit the postmin before 2 hours today!!!
  21. Sticky: It's not really lack of participation in and of...

    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#679)
    Quote Originally Posted by DeKay (#678)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#676)
    I'm tellin ya, I can not post like I have this game, as a wolf, I just can't, I'm a bad wolf.

    If I was a wolf I would probably max out at 20 posts for all of day 1.
    Okay, we get it. But I'mnnot gonna say that I believe this just cuz I've never played with you before and we're all champions here so we should be somewhat good at being scum?

    But why aren't you saving yourself? You can vote for Kevan cuz I don't think that Legend vote is going anywhere.
    I could vote Kevan but my only read on him at the moment is a low activity player, and my case on Legend is because of things Legend did that I found were wolfy. I would feel like I'm just lynching Kevan for self preservation and I don't like doing that. I have Kevan of Blackcrown on my scum list but it's basically for not making an impact. If someone has a case on Blackcrown that isn't just because of lack of participation I would like to hear it.
    It's not really lack of participation in and of itself, per se; it's more that I've had some head-tilting moments that are enough for me to be comfortable seeing where this wagon goes!!!

    His posts after having started being voted have not been particularly hype either, so I'm cool with continuing to be here for the moment!!!

    Have you read through his ISO?

    What are your thoughts on say, Steel or Drums for a few?
  22. Sticky: Click the empty checkbox next to the vote button...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#689)
    ##Vote No Lynch

    Just seeing if this unvotes (I think it does).


    Assuming it works, I am specifically looking for a low-posting player to put my vote towards (as I mentioned earlier).
    Click the empty checkbox next to the vote button to unvote!!!

    I'd suggest taking a look at some of the lower-posters yourself since you're around, lots of people with an ISO of less than 20 posts which should not take long to go through, considering most aren't wallposts!!!!

    If you haven't got the time though, I'd still suggest somewhere between Ser Kevan/Steele!!
  23. Sticky: Okay; has your read changed/been updated with his...

    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#664)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#660)
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#656)
    Daniel doesn't count as a vote?
    can you remind me why you're votes on me again? is it only for the questionnaire? I posted a view links showing its just a custom in my home forum (with that question on scum team being asked in particular). Does your sus on me move beyond that?
    Needed to jump in there real quick before it looked like Ara was defending you? I put my vote there because I felt like people were going to give you a free pass for posting that questionnaire and "stirring up" activity. I wanted to see if it being there bothered you, it's not much pressure but it's still a bit.
    Okay; has your read changed/been updated with his further posts lately?

    Is Daniel the person you want to lynch today/where you think your vote would be most useful at the moment?

    Also, I see your post later on; was asking you to vote since... you're around right now, and the others aren't!!!
  24. Sticky: Why though? For the first few in particular would...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKay (#659)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#513)
    General question to everyone: as of now, who is the player that you personally find most difficult to read, has reasons to go either way?

    And why, of course!!!
    Maybe Zen Blade, Daniel, Steele and Legend? Tho Legend hasn't said much so I guess I just don't have that much of an impression on him.
    Why though? For the first few in particular would be appreciated!!!
  25. Sticky: Activity does not necessarily equal towniness,...

    Quote Originally Posted by RagingIke297 (#648)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#639)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#637)
    Daniel,

    Explain to me how getting a new active on Day 2 helps us? They have just as much chance of being villager/mafia as any other person at the start.

    That's math, we all agree.


    The difference is that this player has no paper trail, no history that we can look through.
    Not Daniel, but a new sub could potentially give new takes on the game, and it's also quite possible for them to project town well if they're town; if they're someone who still doesn't pass the bar of towniness then sure, we can still lynch them tomorrow - difference is that they'll have actually spoken to have had a chance!!!

    Look, just going to say straight up that it is extremely unlikely a 0-poster will be lynched today; would you consider voting someone like Ser Kevan or RagingIke? They're not exactly the most active of people either!!
    Didn't realize that activity = townieness. Day one is 100% random, we have a 3/15 chance of hitting wolf.
    Activity does not necessarily equal towniness, yes; however, it is generally easier to find someone as town when they put their thoughts in the thread!!

    Hi RagingIke by the way!!! Have you read up much, where are your thoughts/reads at?

    Also would be cool if you could vote someone please thank you!!!!
  26. Sticky: Reiterating my point that most people do not want...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#646)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#639)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#637)
    Daniel,

    Explain to me how getting a new active on Day 2 helps us? They have just as much chance of being villager/mafia as any other person at the start.

    That's math, we all agree.


    The difference is that this player has no paper trail, no history that we can look through.
    Not Daniel, but a new sub could potentially give new takes on the game, and it's also quite possible for them to project town well if they're town; if they're someone who still doesn't pass the bar of towniness then sure, we can still lynch them tomorrow - difference is that they'll have actually spoken to have had a chance!!!

    Look, just going to say straight up that it is extremely unlikely a 0-poster will be lynched today; would you consider voting someone like Ser Kevan or RagingIke? They're not exactly the most active of people either!!
    I disagree with your position, but yes, I would rather have a low poster who is not fully present voted out than a high poster.

    I would consider both of those two players in that mix.
    Reiterating my point that most people do not want to lynch a 0-poster, so can you move your vote somewhere where it would actually be impactful? I've given a few suggestions; I'm not saying we should lynch the top poster ( ), but surely you can see that your vote is not doing anything sitting on someone not posting, right?
  27. Sticky: Hmm, just sort of flicking through old KruZe...

    Hmm, just sort of flicking through old KruZe ISOs; bit difficult considering mash meta is pretty distinctive from normal game meta!!! Most I can tell is that he seems to be more chill/whatever as mafia, actually solvy as town!!

    Which is pretty basic!!!

    Looking through his actual ISO here, I think I like it better on second thought; sure he didn't do that much initially, but I do think the way he's pushed on Legend Dan feels somewhat genuine? Feels like he's actively starting to engage with people now in a solvy way, particularly when there are several options that could easily be considered to be better!!

    Granted, that's not exactly something I'd find clearing and is pretty light (also something easy to do from mafia), but something I somewhat like nonetheless!!!!

    ...I think I'm also probably misclearing at least someone out of being lynched today/falling into my activity reads trap, but I'm fine with that for today!!!
  28. Sticky: KruZe, do you happen to have a non-mash game...

    KruZe, do you happen to have a non-mash game you've played recently?

    Also, what was your alignment in the MtG mash last week?
  29. Sticky: Not Daniel, but a new sub could potentially give...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#637)
    Daniel,

    Explain to me how getting a new active on Day 2 helps us? They have just as much chance of being villager/mafia as any other person at the start.

    That's math, we all agree.


    The difference is that this player has no paper trail, no history that we can look through.
    Not Daniel, but a new sub could potentially give new takes on the game, and it's also quite possible for them to project town well if they're town; if they're someone who still doesn't pass the bar of towniness then sure, we can still lynch them tomorrow - difference is that they'll have actually spoken to have had a chance!!!

    Look, just going to say straight up that it is extremely unlikely a 0-poster will be lynched today; would you consider voting someone like Ser Kevan or RagingIke? They're not exactly the most active of people either!!
  30. Sticky: If inactive then they will get replaced for sure,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#632)
    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Dan Hoffman (#630)
    Wait, if someone doesn't post for a day, they get replaced, not mod killed?

    I'm going to go sell some more turnips. See y'all at lynch hour.
    im not sure actually. but Berz does have a sub listed, so I assume it'll be sub preferred?
    If inactive then they will get replaced for sure, definitely not modkilled!!!
  31. Sticky: Why do you think someone posting a lot when...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#598)
    Mr Kruze is posting a lot.

    He is feeling a lot of pressure.

    There are still only three votes against his name.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have a trapped wolf here.
    Why do you think someone posting a lot when they're wagoned means they're necessarily mafia? Not really something overly alignment-indicative; I don't expect people to simply lie down and get themselves lynched, regardless of if they're town or mafia!!

    As an aside, I also do expect posting to pick up as we near EoD regardless of alignment... for the most part, anyway!!!
  32. Sticky: It's not exactly the same as WIFOM; this is more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Dan Hoffman (#610)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#607)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#601)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#587)
    The lack of concern on how she appears has been taken into account!!

    Yeah, main thing is basically whether she's TWTBAW or TWTBTWTBAW for which I'm concerned it could be the latter due to the "traps" being ones which are like, ones which would only "catch" mafia that have just started playing mafia, but I'm probably fine with giving her another day here!!!

    What do those letters stand for?
    Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: means essentially someone who is posting in a way that seems suspicious, but most mafia would be too self-conscious/self-aware to post so blatantly suspiciously, so they're just town - would say that could be said of Ash Lael and/or !-!22-227 here!!

    Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: someone who is (usually intentionally) trying too hard to act as though they are TWTBAW, often by giving outlandish takes/making posts that seem unbelievable on purpose, so they're just mafia!

    I think you're right on the fence between the two at the moment!!!

    Bonus:
    Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: someone who purposely tries to act a certain way as town which may or may not be meant to intentionally suspicious, but looks very much like outlandish mafia... but it's also all very much and not how mafia would actually pretend to be, so they're just town!!!

    It would be fun to go on, but you get the gist!!
    Ooh, I despise that. In other groups, it's called WIFOM "Wine in front of me" referencing that awesome scene from The Princess Bride. If it smells like a wolf and it bites like a wolf, lynch it like a wolf.
    It's not exactly the same as WIFOM; this is more about the concept that lots of town often post suspiciously, but you have to ask: do they truly believe in what they're saying? Does it seem like they are actually trying to solve? What are their actual intentions behind posting/are they posting with a mafia agenda, do they have TMI about the game or do they have no idea what's going on?

    That sort of thing!!!
  33. Sticky: Does it really feel like wagon movement has been...

    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#606)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#598)
    Mr Kruze is posting a lot.

    He is feeling a lot of pressure.

    There are still only three votes against his name.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have a trapped wolf here.
    feeling pressure, most certainly, there is 5 hours left in the day and it feels like 5 minutes


    Once the wagons became Me Vs. Ash there has been ZERO MOVEMENT to other wagons. It's pretty bad for the village, wagons with lots of movement give lots more info, having the wagons be me vs ash ALL DAY which I believe to be both Villagers, is perfect for the wolves.

    Ash Lael, when I flip villager, what are you going to say then? Put yourself in a fantasy scenario where I flip villager, should be easy for you, your entire style is an act. I bet it goes something like "oh well he is just bad not my fault it's his fault blah blah blah" but of course in some fancy language of yours. You will justify it someway, they always do, I've been mislynched before. You had no problem voting for me and not giving it a second thought, you will be responsible for my death but you won't accept it.
    Does it really feel like wagon movement has been notable as of the entire day? Also, there's still time left in today; just because you're a wagon now doesn't mean you'll get lynched, though there is indeed more weight behind one at this time than earlier in the day!!!

    What would your ideal two wagons be, for this EoD?
  34. Sticky: I probably should have connected the thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (#594)
    Still reading up, but I feel obligated to post that, as one of the few people that have played with Legend Dan before,I'm concerned that people are so quick to trust him as I have not seen anything that should garner such trust so far. My own read on him is currently neutral.
    I probably should have connected the thoughts that you're the aforementioned Kevin earlier; had that question rattling around in the back of my mind for a while!!!!

    It's noted that you're the second person to have said something along the lines of this; would you say you normally have a good read on him?

    Also why did you think KruZe's post voting Daniel in P#534 was curious?
  35. Sticky: Speaking mainly regarding P#541: while some of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#582)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#578)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#556)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#542)
    That's fair; there's a reason why he's in my ??? section, for one!!!

    If you had to lean him one way or another at this time, where would you go? What do you think of the wagon/reads on him thus far?
    He's a strong null for me at them moment. But nothing very townie has come off to me quite yet, so to be on the safe side I'll keep him in my possible scum pool. But more consideration is needed so I'll have to go back to this later

    Ash's case on Kruze is actually quite compelling. Vinnie's sus on him also sounds reasonable enough and he was the first to hard vote for him, and Vinnie is not tunnely enough on Kruze that he won't consider any other lynch, so that's good. Fleur I need to read again but i don't remember why she hard sussed kruze again? I may just be forgetting but that may also be because she hasn't pushed him like the others. So at the very least I see Ash and Vinnie's cases coming from town perspectives

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#546)
    Why do you find it curious?
    A quick ISO of Kevan's posts and most of them are one-liners that warrant questions like this. Not seeing too much explanation or active pushing from him so Im starting to consider a vote on him more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#548)
    I will say that although Mr Hoffman made a good initial impression, he has not so far done much to live up to it.

    For someone who speaks of the value of aggression to remain so absent and passive does not inspire faith.
    I am starting to agree on this. Legend of Dan is still largely absent and not living up to the play style he set himself up to be. Not sure if its lazy/absent town or maf yet, but noted

    Regarding Ash's case on KruZe, I think it is certainly a towny case in and of itself, though am not overly taken in as to whether or not it's correct at the moment... just not really sure if he's given him that much of a chance, though I'm also concerned if I've given him too much leeway myself!! I know for a fact he's not inexperienced in forum mafia, though various things from Ash's case do bother me, so... am fine with him being a wagon at the moment!!!

    My main concern is that maybe it is just playstyle, but that's not stopping me from wanting him to be a wagon as well; care to join me on Ser Kevan?

    Both of those two as wagons would be fine, would be interested in seeing where that goes!!
    What issues do you have with Ash's case?

    I was looking at Drums's latest post which is really the only one of substance. Everything else up to that was just small comments of the game so far. Drums is lightly pushing Ash and has a sus on Fleur (I think?) and has slight susses on Zen and Kruze. None of these are really strong stances so Im not sure if Drums has too many thoughts on everyone. Hoping to see more from him

    but technically, Drums produced more substance than Kevan (though Im expecting more from him), so sure I'll join you

    ##Unvote Drums
    ##Vote Ser Kevan of Blackcrown
    Speaking mainly regarding P#541: while some of Ash's description of KruZe seems somewhat accurate, the main issue I have is how truly alignment-indicative are these points? For instance, his behaviour not matching up to what he says it is which often isn't alignment-indicative (and could even be said to be slightly towny, because mafia tend to be more controlled with their behaviour), and the not pushing for someone/votes - it had still only been day 1!! I also don't really agree that KruZe sounds like a mafioso that has "played correctly and is now frustrated" as an overall description; not really interested in discussing these points at the moment because of perspective, and also there are other points that are valid there!

    Yeah, the most recent Drums post is the main reason I'm holding off there because it sounds like he's going to be around more a bit later; only so much I'm willing to wait, but also there are a couple places I prefer to sit in the meantime, like this one!!!
  36. Sticky: Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: means essentially someone...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#601)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#587)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#558)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#545)
    While I see where you're coming from, it concerns me that that's the strongest thing she has going for her; any chance you could elaborate further or is that mostly it?
    Without meaning to disparage or in anyway diminish Miss Fleur, she appears to be operating on a fairly basic level in terms of her expectations of miscreant actions.

    For someone with that level of expectation to be so thoroughly unconcerned with their own manner and appearance, to me, simply appears that no thought of their own guilt has entered their mind.

    Beyond this, there is a clear desire on her part to find the culprits. She has set traps even! Adorable ones that could not possibly work, but the intent is there!

    In this case I believe the plain explanation is the correct one and I do not intend to ever cast a vote against Miss Fleur.
    The lack of concern on how she appears has been taken into account!!

    Yeah, main thing is basically whether she's TWTBAW or TWTBTWTBAW for which I'm concerned it could be the latter due to the "traps" being ones which are like, ones which would only "catch" mafia that have just started playing mafia, but I'm probably fine with giving her another day here!!!

    What do those letters stand for?
    Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: means essentially someone who is posting in a way that seems suspicious, but most mafia would be too self-conscious/self-aware to post so blatantly suspiciously, so they're just town - would say that could be said of Ash Lael and/or !-!22-227 here!!

    Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: someone who is (usually intentionally) trying too hard to act as though they are TWTBAW, often by giving outlandish takes/making posts that seem unbelievable on purpose, so they're just mafia!

    I think you're right on the fence between the two at the moment!!!

    Bonus:
    Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf: someone who purposely tries to act a certain way as town which may or may not be meant to intentionally suspicious, but looks very much like outlandish mafia... but it's also all very much and not how mafia would actually pretend to be, so they're just town!!!

    It would be fun to go on, but you get the gist!!
  37. Sticky: For what it's worth, the times when a player is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#568)
    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Dan Hoffman (#555)
    Without going into too much detail, I've been having some medical issues as of late, and the medicine I'm on puts me to sleep for about half of the day. I also have twin 5 year olds, and I own a small business that I'm trying desperately to reopen, so my attention gets split a lot. You are not wrong that I came in, posted a few times, and then disappeared. I just got out of bed and realized I hadn't touched this thread in about 16 hours, so I've read up now and I'm ready to share some thoughts.
    Allow me to make a number of observations.

    Mr Hoffman entered this inquiry articulating a philosophy of aggression and confrontation. Since then he has been largely absent - and even when he has arrived, as he has now, he remains passive - offering himself up for questioning but driving no real agenda of his own.

    He was not present for an extended period, but appeared immediately as suspicion was beginning to be cast upon him.

    He now points to demands on his time - but in his initial posts there seemed to be a preoccupation with Animal Crossing that did not speak of someone too busy to post.

    I offer these observations for the consideration of others.
    For what it's worth, the times when a player is able to post in the thread are less likely to be alignment-indicative; usually that's much more indicative of offline circumstances!!!
  38. Sticky: The lack of concern on how she appears has been...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#558)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#545)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#531)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#515)
    At the moment, mine would be Fleur; a great deal of the posts she's made has been ???, though I'm not sure whether that's necessarily town-indicative or mafia indicative!! Voting a player for being a "strong player", seeming to have a strange disconnect between reads/what's going on in the thread, applying different tools at what seems to be a whim, and most of all, infolynching; will probably pull out some quotes in a bit to stick it in one place, though if you wanted to ISO her go for it as it isn't long!

    Zen Blade might actually be a close second, though; yes I've been comfortable with his posts, but also am just not particularly into the reasoning for why I like those posts!!!
    While Miss Fleur's logic is somewhat inscrutable, there is a shamelessness in her manner I cannot help but find appealing. My assessment is that she's sound.
    While I see where you're coming from, it concerns me that that's the strongest thing she has going for her; any chance you could elaborate further or is that mostly it?
    Without meaning to disparage or in anyway diminish Miss Fleur, she appears to be operating on a fairly basic level in terms of her expectations of miscreant actions.

    For someone with that level of expectation to be so thoroughly unconcerned with their own manner and appearance, to me, simply appears that no thought of their own guilt has entered their mind.

    Beyond this, there is a clear desire on her part to find the culprits. She has set traps even! Adorable ones that could not possibly work, but the intent is there!

    In this case I believe the plain explanation is the correct one and I do not intend to ever cast a vote against Miss Fleur.
    The lack of concern on how she appears has been taken into account!!

    Yeah, main thing is basically whether she's TWTBAW or TWTBTWTBAW for which I'm concerned it could be the latter due to the "traps" being ones which are like, ones which would only "catch" mafia that have just started playing mafia, but I'm probably fine with giving her another day here!!!
  39. Sticky: Regarding Ash's case on KruZe, I think it is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#556)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#542)
    That's fair; there's a reason why he's in my ??? section, for one!!!

    If you had to lean him one way or another at this time, where would you go? What do you think of the wagon/reads on him thus far?
    He's a strong null for me at them moment. But nothing very townie has come off to me quite yet, so to be on the safe side I'll keep him in my possible scum pool. But more consideration is needed so I'll have to go back to this later

    Ash's case on Kruze is actually quite compelling. Vinnie's sus on him also sounds reasonable enough and he was the first to hard vote for him, and Vinnie is not tunnely enough on Kruze that he won't consider any other lynch, so that's good. Fleur I need to read again but i don't remember why she hard sussed kruze again? I may just be forgetting but that may also be because she hasn't pushed him like the others. So at the very least I see Ash and Vinnie's cases coming from town perspectives

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#546)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (#534)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#163)
    Noticed some people gave me some negative comments regarding my entrance posts and calling myself town.

    That is completely standard from me, I do it basically every game as a villager. I have hundreds of games you can reference if you wanted to.

    Entrance post is what it is, people can read into it both ways and they have so far, noticed one individual (forgot the name at the moment) gave me a town read for my entrance, others gave me a scum read... it is what it is, what really matters is my posts going forward as we get into the meat of the game.

    I will say, Daniel trying to get everyone to fill out those questions was a bit sketchy, especially the part where he wanted everyone to name a 3 person scum team RIGHT AWAY. Like, all of the villagers obviously if they answered that, would just be posting basically random "scum teams" and that isn't helpful, in fact it's the opposite of helpful to have a bunch of town calling eachother a scum for no reason. I could see scum trying to avoid that question. I personally didn't answer it for the reason of why would I want to randomly call people a scum if I don't actually believe it? That's not how I play. Leaning Daniel as my first scum read for that.

    ##Vote Daniel
    I find this reasoning curious...
    Why do you find it curious?
    A quick ISO of Kevan's posts and most of them are one-liners that warrant questions like this. Not seeing too much explanation or active pushing from him so Im starting to consider a vote on him more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#548)
    I will say that although Mr Hoffman made a good initial impression, he has not so far done much to live up to it.

    For someone who speaks of the value of aggression to remain so absent and passive does not inspire faith.
    I am starting to agree on this. Legend of Dan is still largely absent and not living up to the play style he set himself up to be. Not sure if its lazy/absent town or maf yet, but noted

    Regarding Ash's case on KruZe, I think it is certainly a towny case in and of itself, though am not overly taken in as to whether or not it's correct at the moment... just not really sure if he's given him that much of a chance, though I'm also concerned if I've given him too much leeway myself!! I know for a fact he's not inexperienced in forum mafia, though various things from Ash's case do bother me, so... am fine with him being a wagon at the moment!!!

    My main concern is that maybe it is just playstyle, but that's not stopping me from wanting him to be a wagon as well; care to join me on Ser Kevan?

    Both of those two as wagons would be fine, would be interested in seeing where that goes!!
  40. Sticky: No worries, taking care of offline/non-mafia...

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Dan Hoffman (#555)
    Without going into too much detail, I've been having some medical issues as of late, and the medicine I'm on puts me to sleep for about half of the day. I also have twin 5 year olds, and I own a small business that I'm trying desperately to reopen, so my attention gets split a lot. You are not wrong that I came in, posted a few times, and then disappeared. I just got out of bed and realized I hadn't touched this thread in about 16 hours, so I've read up now and I'm ready to share some thoughts.

    I tend to have fairly good reads, but I sometimes have difficulty expressing exactly WHY I feel that way about people. My top three suspects at the moment are Ash (I feel the character is a good way to disguise your play so people can't call you out for acting differently), Kruze (he made some comments earlier that felt very much like "I'm here" without adding substance" and Zen Blade, for putting his vote on a person who's likely to be eliminated due to inactivity.
    No worries, taking care of offline/non-mafia stuff is pretty important I hear; that's quite a lot of sleep though!!

    It's okay if you tend to find it difficult, expressing reasoning can often be the most difficult part of mafia... as long as you try your best, hopefully we'll get there on you as town!!!

    Can you talk about some of your townreads/who you have as top town? Doesn't have to be overly thoughtful/in-depth, just whatever you have in mind!!

    Also have you read much of Catty's posts/reads there? What do you think of the read she gave on you, for one?
  41. Sticky: Do you usually prefer to infolynch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#553)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#550)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#549)
    I will go to sleep soon and most likely not return at EoD. I will do some reading, but I prefer to keep my vote on KruZe or change it to Steele.
    Why you wanna vote me?
    I have given my reasons for my vote already. In addition to that, I feel like your lynch will give us a lot of information on other players, too.


    But while we're at it, what's your opinion on Steele?
    Do you usually prefer to infolynch?
  42. Sticky: The people who I'd prefer wagons be consolidated...

    The people who I'd prefer wagons be consolidated on are:
    Ser Kevan of Blackcrown
    RagingIke297
    Steele
    KruZe
    Fleur
    Drums

    KruZe is fine as a wagon, would ideally prefer one or both of Ser Kevan/RagingIke as counterwagons the most out of the above!!!
  43. Sticky: I'm inquiring more about your progression on...

    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#544)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#543)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#529)
    I feel the Ash vs. Me stuff is villa vs. villa

    I'm over it, if he wants to continue to push me, that's on him.
    What prompted/led you to this thought?
    I'm not spending time on Ash anymore, yall can sort him out. He is a villager in my eyes, that's all anyone needs to know. Next question please.
    I'm inquiring more about your progression on him/what you read that helped develop your read, not really about him!!!
  44. Sticky: Why do you find it curious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Kevan of Blackcrown (#534)
    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#163)
    Noticed some people gave me some negative comments regarding my entrance posts and calling myself town.

    That is completely standard from me, I do it basically every game as a villager. I have hundreds of games you can reference if you wanted to.

    Entrance post is what it is, people can read into it both ways and they have so far, noticed one individual (forgot the name at the moment) gave me a town read for my entrance, others gave me a scum read... it is what it is, what really matters is my posts going forward as we get into the meat of the game.

    I will say, Daniel trying to get everyone to fill out those questions was a bit sketchy, especially the part where he wanted everyone to name a 3 person scum team RIGHT AWAY. Like, all of the villagers obviously if they answered that, would just be posting basically random "scum teams" and that isn't helpful, in fact it's the opposite of helpful to have a bunch of town calling eachother a scum for no reason. I could see scum trying to avoid that question. I personally didn't answer it for the reason of why would I want to randomly call people a scum if I don't actually believe it? That's not how I play. Leaning Daniel as my first scum read for that.

    ##Vote Daniel
    I find this reasoning curious...
    Why do you find it curious?
  45. Sticky: While I see where you're coming from, it concerns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael (#531)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#515)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#513)
    General question to everyone: as of now, who is the player that you personally find most difficult to read, has reasons to go either way?

    And why, of course!!!
    At the moment, mine would be Fleur; a great deal of the posts she's made has been ???, though I'm not sure whether that's necessarily town-indicative or mafia indicative!! Voting a player for being a "strong player", seeming to have a strange disconnect between reads/what's going on in the thread, applying different tools at what seems to be a whim, and most of all, infolynching; will probably pull out some quotes in a bit to stick it in one place, though if you wanted to ISO her go for it as it isn't long!

    Zen Blade might actually be a close second, though; yes I've been comfortable with his posts, but also am just not particularly into the reasoning for why I like those posts!!!
    While Miss Fleur's logic is somewhat inscrutable, there is a shamelessness in her manner I cannot help but find appealing. My assessment is that she's sound.
    While I see where you're coming from, it concerns me that that's the strongest thing she has going for her; any chance you could elaborate further or is that mostly it?
  46. Sticky: What prompted/led you to this thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by KruZe (#529)
    I feel the Ash vs. Me stuff is villa vs. villa

    I'm over it, if he wants to continue to push me, that's on him.
    What prompted/led you to this thought?
  47. Sticky: That's fair; there's a reason why he's in my ???...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel (#527)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#513)
    General question to everyone: as of now, who is the player that you personally find most difficult to read, has reasons to go either way?

    And why, of course!!!
    at the moment it’s Kruze that im having the most trouble discerning. he has posted scummy stuff, but town act scummy all the time. it’s more of me considering “does kruze avoid substance because he knows to much and doesn’t want to share, or he just still is uncertain of how to take hold in the game yet?”

    Mr. Ash, I’m surprised to see you write in your standard style. For me, I don’t see the substance of your posts being lower quality to make up for the frilly voice. i still understand what you’re saying, so it’s fine for me. one thing i am curious though is what’s your current read on Kruze given you’ve put pressure on him for a while now?
    That's fair; there's a reason why he's in my ??? section, for one!!!

    If you had to lean him one way or another at this time, where would you go? What do you think of the wagon/reads on him thus far?
  48. Sticky: I believe we simply come from slightly different...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#521)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#507)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Blade (#474)
    Fleur drifting into my "on radar" camp. Again though, I prefer not to lynch involved players on Day 1.


    So, someone who disagrees with that logic is going to need to argue with me.

    Here's my logic on targeting inactives or low-posting folks:

    1. An inactive has zero baseline. We know nothing. So, unless you are making them "villager for life", on Day 2... we are just establishing a baseline, not useful. We have 1 day LESS information than they do. They can read back on everything. An active player has a past/history we can review.

    2. An active player is an easy target for power roles (both good and bad), which tells us information. Werewolves killing inactive or low-active players is great for the village. Good power roles should be checking the actives because it means that you can either find someone misleading the village or someone you can trust more. My understanding is that our seer/inspector role here cannot be fooled with a false negative, unlike werewolf where you can trick a seer.

    3. Encouraging players to interact, by saying you won't lynch them, is good for team village. You don't want the mafia/werewolves hiding in the shadows, while the village picks off the talkers. Investigate the talkers or let the mafia kill them.


    Cheers,
    For what it's worth, it's standard for completely inactive or people falling under the minimum number of posts to get subbed, so they will be more active going forward one way or another!!!

    While I'm obviously not going to push for the most active player in the phase, it's not necessarily the most active or nothing; there are also several people who have not been particularly active but still difficult to get a read on!!

    Outside of Berz, who would you say is your current top suspicion?

    For what it's worth, you can look at my previous list and see who I updated it with. Just ISO me.

    Second, I am starting to regret "unvoting" you. ;-) [that's a friendly joke for those who haven't caught my style of play yet] Ara, your logic isn't clear to me, and you seem to be completely ignoring my logic, which I will summarize here:


    1. You know more about active players than little-active players.
    2. You know nothing about inactive players, even if substituted a day later. If the inactive is mafia, you are giving them an extra day or two to hide, and you don't have a track record to go on. So, now you are looking at maybe a Day 3/4 lynch, at best.
    3. You want to encourage activity so that you can read folks. So, if you are active in participating, I won't lynch you. That helps us.

    There is, of course, an obvious exception. If a player is clearly bad or is outed, then yeah, go on them. But since I have never played in a forum before nor played with any of you before, and clearly most of you are also new to this environment... first day reads are going to be pretty terrible/inconsistent.

    Cheers,
    I believe we simply come from slightly different perspectives; let's use Berz the 0-poster as an example, shall we?

    Sure we don't know anything about him right now, but you're discounting entirely that they haven't been in the thread to defend themself; that also discounts the fact that it's quite possible for the slot to be active tomorrow and possibly actually clear it!! Besides which, there are 3 mafia in this game, all of which are mafia goons; if he does turn out to be mafia then I'm not particularly concerned regardless with two others having actually posted today!

    While a person being active helps them solve the game/others solve them, that does not necessarily mean activity = town, though it's fair to say that it's often easier to find people who are town when they're actively posting their thoughts in the thread!!!

    Sure, first day reads aren't going to be based off things like claims (usually); however they can still be good, and useful for analysis in future days at the very least!!
  49. Sticky: Brief sketch of where I'm at, tiers alphabetized:...

    Brief sketch of where I'm at, tiers alphabetized:

    Arapocalypse

    Fairly towny
    !-!22-22-7
    Daniel

    Somewhat towny, do not want to lynch today
    Ash Lael
    Zen Blade

    Outskirts of town, knocking to come in
    Catty91
    DeKay
    Legend Dan Hoffman - Might move down actually, bit shrug - wasn't particularly into many of his most recent posts!!

    ???
    Fleur - Discussed earlier, will look into again before EoD; might go here if I'm feeling spicy - would probably prefer over KruZe though, out of this tier!
    KruZe

    Shrug
    Drums - Somewhat holding out here as am expecting more from them this phase, felt like their re-entrance to the thread at least got them to be the towniest of this tier!!
    RagingIke297 - was not particularly enthused by their opening, hasn't passed the bar of towniness
    Ser Kevan of Blackcrown - Am fairly meh on him; while having acknowledged that he's said his posts early on tend to be "fluffy", still just... haven't found them to be towny!!
    Steele - Most notable thing from them has been their readlist, which was... I think the most accurate term would be bland; not something I find particularly towny or suspicious, which means I'd be fine with voting them at the moment!

    Berz - 0-poster

    People in my top 2/3 tiers I will actively defend; ??? is the tier I probably wouldn't push for strongly or defend, would be down to lynch most anyone in my shrug pile at the moment!!
  50. Sticky: I mean sure they could try, but how likely do you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleur (#516)
    Zen Blade is constantly giving updates on their reads. I find this to be Town-ish because you can see how their reads are formed.


    I think scum would profit greatly from getting rid of the most active player. You are being Town read by many and that makes it hard to kill you at night if you are Town due to JOAT's protect. So it hasn't anything to do with scums being blatant, it's just that I think lynching you would be a good move for scum.
    I mean sure they could try, but how likely do you think that they would succeed, if the most active player is also being town read by many?

    Do you think they would still try regardless of the reads of other people in the thread?
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