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  1. Postgame#6805

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I had Monday off, which is why I showed up. I...

    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#6802)
    ggs all

    Especially tom. Solid shout out to weatherguy, you sold the cluelessness well. I was getting pretty aggravated playing with you.

    thingy was always wolf after showing up the previous eod, but i just didnt care at that point.

    After that phi lynch went through i just had to push my world and read the dead town. Too bad my world was all town.
    I had Monday off, which is why I showed up. I said and warned that I would show up. Under normal circumstances I can’t be online at 2 AM on a Sunday.

    When I could post, I posted. I never dodged the thread like someone suggested.
  2. Postgame#6782

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed gg Was fun to play again. This was...

    gg

    Was fun to play again. This was definitively my last game, I just don’t have the time for it anymore. I considered subbing out many times, but I really wanted to see this through, so I just tried finding time where I could.

    Thanks to Manti and AM. Thx to my wolf bros for being awesome teammates.
  3. Day 7#6691

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed 4maskwolf

    ##Vote 4maskwolf
  4. Day 7#6600

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed and honestly that we're losing to that team is...

    and honestly

    that we're losing to that team is kind of dumb

    Contrainer and Boq dodging lynches left and right is just hilariously bad

    and yeah, I kind of defended 4mask and Liberal earlier in the game, so I suck myself

    c'est la vie
  5. Day 7#6599

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed 6 wolves left? my guess: Contrainer Boquise...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#6592)
    Boq, where is your head at? I'm a little skeeved out by the fact that you keep complaining about the "alternate reality" thing and nobody reading your posts, yet when I say that I've read your posts, think they can certainly be from a villager, and combined with you almost getting murdered hours into the day + having been voted by known wolf Visor along with many potential wolves remaining (Thingy, Tom, Mask, Billy, Cron, WG, and Bop) makes me think you're just a villager, you just haven't really attempted to interact any further/talk to me about solving the game/attempted to figure anything out/etc. It reminds me of our earlier interaction where we had a small spat, I said maybe I misunderstood your post and backed off, and then you just ... stopped interacting with me anymore. And it makes me feel like you're just trying to get villa read instead of trying to solve anything.

    So if you're a villager - and at this point I really hope you are or my game has been even worse than I thought and I already thought it was bad - I need to you just recognize that pretty much this entire game is unhappy with how it's been going (even the known wolves weren't having any fun in the thread from what we can tell) and you're not singled out on that front. So shake it off, let's have a nice day for our pride before we get the loss, and try and work through who the wolves are. It shouldn't be hard: the threads nearly 50% of them!

    Just hit me with a general overview of the game state, confident reads, wishy washy reads, and who you think works with other people as wolf pairs and who doesn't.




    - - - - - - - -

    Thingy, I feel you. We've all felt that way this game at one point or another.

    What I need from you is to just convince me you're a villager. You know I've wavered on you so I'm available to see it. I was voting with you for a period of yesterday!

    I need you to convince me you're a villager by telling me who the wolves are and why. Game has been a cluster$#@! but what exactly has been happening?

    You've been a wagon for periods of this game. What felt genuine and what didn't?

    What are Tom, Cron, and Billy's roles?

    Where are you at on the other long term wagoned people like Jan, SS (contrainer and TL respectively) and Boq?

    Did I get bamboozled by Yog snipping at me?

    Is my take on Mask - that they have reserved any strong opinions for mechanics and the role of someone that was certainly going to die at that point in the next cycle while not really digging through anything else half as hard - an accurate representation of their play this game? If so, do you agree that it's wolfy? Follow up: Do you agree that mask telling me he "also plays this way as a villager" when I said it was wolfy of him pretty much a wolf claim?

    We got 4+ days. We had our day of sulking. I had my day last week. Now lets have a week of solving $#@! and having fun.
    6 wolves left?

    my guess:
    Contrainer
    Boquise
    4maskwolf
    bopolis
    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    Trustworthy Liberal

    villagers:
    Thingyman
    billymills
    Cron
    mhsmith0
    Sunbae
    t om
    Weatherguy
    yogsloth

    I've had all of 4mask, Owner and Liberal as villagery, but they've trended down whereas the others have kept being villagery.
  6. Day 7#6598

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed In honor of baudib Contrainer I wanna end...

    In honor of baudib

    ##Vote Contrainer

    I wanna end this game with my vote on a wolf.
  7. Day 7#6589

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed we've lost gg I'm not a wolf but I'm not...

    we've lost

    gg

    I'm not a wolf

    but I'm not gonna be able to persuade you of that

    we desperately needed Panther to flip wolf there to have a chance

    the fact that I was so sure and so wrong at the same time makes me deserving of being a mislynch

    and I've never said that in my entire career
  8. Replies
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    Game Thread DAY 4 wiggles1993 was lynched. He was the...

    DAY 4


    wiggles1993 was lynched. He was the Anglo-Zanzibar War, a military conflict between the United Kingdom and the Zanzibar Sultanate that lasted between 38 and 45 minutes, marking it as the shortest recorded war in history (Mafia Goon):



    You have 1 month to submit your night actions, see you then.
  9. Day 6#6506

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Panther is 100% sniping me in a minute yog is...

    Panther is 100% sniping me in a minute

    yog is gonna vote me

    and then we lose

    gg
  10. Day 6#6502

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed yog seriously you said in a post of yours...

    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#6492)
    You people have two mins to get here or I go thingy

    I don’t have panther as 100% wolf and thingy more equity for potential Kip

    I don’t care if you all $#@! on that
    yog

    seriously

    you said in a post of yours that you couldn't feel the purity from Panther, but that you still had him as a town lean

    I think you need to follow your gut on not actually feeling that from him
  11. Day 6#6494

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed why the $#@! is Robik not here why the $#@! is...

    why the $#@! is Robik not here

    why the $#@! is Sunbae not here
  12. Day 6#6480

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I feel like you don't understand my post. I am...

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner Of A Lonely Heart (#6333)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#6326)
    Quote Originally Posted by Owner Of A Lonely Heart (#6323)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trustworthy Liberal (#6268)
    Thingyman: Today's not been a bad day again stuck on a bubble format of today just picking up the ISO now, but today's not bad very least as I trust yog's case on him unlikely to be Wolf kill power, but could be goon, Town lean
    But I have to evaluate him for his whole play, not just today. The amount of excuses he's given plus his neutral interactions with both frog and jaleb I can't read him town.

    His neutral interaction with frog is that frog was voting for apoc with his fibanacci post. Thingy questions why Apoc but has a this -> emoji

    For his interaction with jaleb he does an aww post when jaleb is talking about how thingy would generally avoid people like Phighter
    Owner

    Having neutral interactions with two players that barely played the game isn't scummy. It's a thing that happens.

    As for the excuses, I'd advise you to consider it from this perspective: If I'm a villager. I'm just telling the truth. If I'm a wolf, why would I want to give excuses and hang out in wolf chat like you said earlier - when I'm getting a lot of heat for not posting? The only real reason there is suspicion towards me is my lack of activity.

    Which is all to say that me being busy is just the truth and therefore you shouldn't be reading into it as anything alignment indicative. Rather, you should read me on my posts. So I implore you to read my posts and consider whether they're made from a villager or scum.

    Or well, if you're a wolf, you can do whatever you want, ofc :P
    I disagree. If you are town, why would you ever say "If I'm a wolf" as that's unnecessary wifom.

    I disagree.

    I'm going by what you have said. In the Teen Wolf Cobalt game, you were more active than this, but I still think you are wolf this game. People start voting for you? Oh look, there you are. You are posting more in the thread. You have two neutral interactions with wolves that have flipped. The connection is there.
    I feel like you don't understand my post.

    I am saying that I wouldn't be lying about it in either role. So I was laying out why in either role I wouldn't be lying about it. It's not WIFOM. It's just explaining to you why it'd be a weird lie in both roles.

    Not gonna spend more time on this post as I need to catch up on the rest
  13. Day 6#6326

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Owner Having neutral interactions with two...

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner Of A Lonely Heart (#6323)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trustworthy Liberal (#6268)
    Thingyman: Today's not been a bad day again stuck on a bubble format of today just picking up the ISO now, but today's not bad very least as I trust yog's case on him unlikely to be Wolf kill power, but could be goon, Town lean
    But I have to evaluate him for his whole play, not just today. The amount of excuses he's given plus his neutral interactions with both frog and jaleb I can't read him town.

    His neutral interaction with frog is that frog was voting for apoc with his fibanacci post. Thingy questions why Apoc but has a this -> emoji

    For his interaction with jaleb he does an aww post when jaleb is talking about how thingy would generally avoid people like Phighter
    Owner

    Having neutral interactions with two players that barely played the game isn't scummy. It's a thing that happens.

    As for the excuses, I'd advise you to consider it from this perspective: If I'm a villager. I'm just telling the truth. If I'm a wolf, why would I want to give excuses and hang out in wolf chat like you said earlier - when I'm getting a lot of heat for not posting? The only real reason there is suspicion towards me is my lack of activity.

    Which is all to say that me being busy is just the truth and therefore you shouldn't be reading into it as anything alignment indicative. Rather, you should read me on my posts. So I implore you to read my posts and consider whether they're made from a villager or scum.

    Or well, if you're a wolf, you can do whatever you want, ofc :P
  14. Day 6#6313

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Panther if it's not happening, I'll switch my...

    ##Vote Panther

    if it's not happening, I'll switch my vote
  15. Day 6#6267

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed hi Boq you said you liked Sunbae's case on me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#6261)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#6241)
    @Boquise

    If you're around I have a question for you, but I need to ask it real-time.
    Hi
    hi Boq

    you said you liked Sunbae's case on me

    Please summarize it quickly for me
  16. Day 6#6266

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed a few quick things that I could remember and...

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6258)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#6247)
    the only paranoid thought I've had about SS/Trustworthy Liberal this game is that we've had so many mirrored thoughts that I've at times wondered if he was doing that on purpose
    Can you walk through which thoughts in particular stuck out at you as mirroring your headspace? Panther talked about this about sunbae a while ago (I don't think he really spelled this out) and I guess we're at the point of the game where I'd like something a bit more backing that up if you don't mind TIA
    a few quick things that I could remember and find:

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#893)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#886)
    I wasn't sure about baudib from the first page, but the underlined parts here are quite villagery.

    Commenting on and giving advice to other players on how to play (in a seemingly genuine way) and being attentive to people's reads in the way that he is is not something I see often from wolves.
    thingy picking out the very same thing as i did as towny. small points to him
    He had made a post before this about his baudib read, to be clear

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1307)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#1300)
    Poll: People who DON'T want to lynch Thingy

    Is it because

    -You think he's been townie
    -You just aren't super convinced he's mafia

    ?
    i think he's been towny this EoD and i've liked some of his earlier thoughts aligning with my own when reading through the first couple of pages. The last part could just be NAI alike thought processes, but eh, still like it
    he experiences it the same way, or so he says at least


    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#2836)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#2834)
    I just kinda expect more.

    I just expect you to care more in some sense. I'd expect to see you shot early for having too many solid reads on people. But I'm not even sure you have a solid read here.

    Feels like you randed the wrong team or something.
    i expected to care more myself tbh

    i just dont give a $#@! about a long phase wall posting game and i'm not sure i can bring myself to give more of a $#@! beyond my requisite attempts at keeping up with the game because i feel a compulsion to attempt to care

    and you're right, i don't really have a solid read on anyone

    i think chris is probably the most solid read i have and that is a guy who claimed a role on d1

    and that is stupid and i know it. i'm not dumb, i know that i should be at the very least doing more if not caring more but i just dont want to play this kind of ww game

    if you think it makes me a wolf, you go right on ahead, i'm not going to argue against the fact i don't care

    i don't think it makes me a wolf personally (either meta or in this game but ymmv)

    what do you think of my posts independent of that, then?
    This post is villagery
    I had pointed out the exact same thing as being villagery. It was wrong, but we saw the same thing and agreed.

    Same thing with his Marko read I remember - we town read him for the same reasons, down to the specific posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#4496)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#3468)

    Quote Originally Posted by baudib1 (#1735)
    SR/Smith W/W you heard it here first. This is weak distancing:

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#1638)
    i may be pushign him tomorrow was on my early $#@! list d1
    I had a thought to keep this to myself to see what develops but this is classic wolf stuff, "I'm going to do such and such tomorrow" and not do it.

    First off, Smith's ISO barely mentions SR, he spent a lot of time casing Amy (flipped town). And he came in today and is all about Phighter.
    Again, this can be faked, but as a whole I find baudib villagery for his numerous references to having multiple and nuanced thoughts on the game outside of what he's been posting in the game thread. It's the underlined part I'm referring to. Though of course here he decided to post it, but you know what I mean.


    Thingy's had many reasons for townreading ppl that i really agree with and want to townread him for, including this one. And i will give it slight townpoints, but i do realize it's probably more indicative of playstyle than alignment. I guess this is partly an appreciation mention of thingy.
    And yeah, there was this post too which is again SS saying the same thing, but it was the one that triggered my paranoid thought of "SS is buddying up to me"

    I wasn't familiar with SS' game before this, but he claims to play a POE-style game based mostly on reading townies, and I just found it very noteworthy that we've been reading people mostly the same way all game. Including Manasi who we were also wrong on ofc, but c'est la vie.
  17. Day 6#6254

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I was about to call you the hidden wolf, but this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#6251)
    ##Unvote Thingyman

    thing his posting today has been decent enough, and Yogs argument about him not being wolf kp makes a bit of sense imo.
    I was about to call you the hidden wolf, but this reassures my doubts for now :P
  18. Day 6#6253

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I don't understand the underlined, is this an...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trustworthy Liberal (#6248)
    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6244)
    fwiw I'm also trying to figure out if yolo posting 2 nothing posts and then bailing is villagery or wolfy, currently lean wolfy

    Quote Originally Posted by Trustworthy Liberal (#6125)
    Hey I've read some of the game will go over slowly got limited post either way so gotta be careful not to just do my base of just replying a lot and make some sense myself.

    If someone has a claim list that would be helpful also if we are avoiding claims that would also be useful information for me to have. Thankfully i have time to read up slowly later cause another day till EoD.

    (I will be having gifs for a number of posts to keep myself invested a little thing am trying will be in spoilers)

    Enter Trustworthy


    (also low key have no idea how this slot was read before my sub so no idea how this will go.)

    Now i hear town has given up i am hear to get us out slowly but surely i will do everything in my power to help us out of this hole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trustworthy Liberal (#6133)
    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#6130)
    @Trustworthy Liberal

    You are firmly in POE. Please be villagery if you're a villager. ISO Boq/Thingy/Bop/Contrainer(Jan)
    Oh no that's not gonna end well i'll try my best to show your my villagereyness (If that is a word).

    Both subs today being in POE isn't gonna be a good start for this gonna try my best to set it all up might attempt ISO's today on living players yeah i'll do that right after i finish something IRL
    @Trustworthy Liberal
    hi

    thoughts? feels? isos? anything? I feel like an asshole typing this if you're a villa who subbed in and 2 posted then afk'd but w/e, if you're a villager then do villagery things or something.
    I've read back through and confused myself sorry last two days quiet alot on Homesite stoped me alittle but even now confused on alot of past stuff most likely based on missing information.

    Also curious on why Contrainor got voted for seemly leaving like I had if we ever live the night that's something major to look forward to.

    Still gotta ironically ISO my slot which I haven't done at all currently thinking of Boquise havn't liked them to day but the problum being Thingyman is siting at a neutral/Need to read more so don't wanna tie votes before reading that which since am off work I'll do now.

    (Accidentally lost old multi quote so just gonna skip to the now and over night write post numbers and reply to each that way it's easier to read.)

    I hope that anwsers this alittle now just gonna drop this here and ISO Thingy.

    Me looking at this thread right now.
    I don't understand the underlined, is this an edited sentence or am I just not getting it?
  19. Day 6#6249

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed like SS is someone I've just put off forever...

    like SS is someone I've just put off forever because they had good, sensible content that I agreed with, and while they may still be a wolf, I'd really prefer to not go for that when I have other wolf suspects :/
  20. Day 6#6247

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed the only paranoid thought I've had about...

    the only paranoid thought I've had about SS/Trustworthy Liberal this game is that we've had so many mirrored thoughts that I've at times wondered if he was doing that on purpose
  21. Day 6#6246

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed this would suggest mhsmith is willing to vote...

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6237)
    Pg 20-something
    If sunbae is a wolf, around now is where you might see the same sort of “divert/distract” stuff as if jan was a wolf you could have seen earlier
    962 – phi w an interesting point on thingy’s radishes vote (why him and not “this pile of people” 4/6 villas, 2/6 unflipped. Don’t hate the thingy response)
    966 – apoc w the jan v read. Slight shade towards bop after five corrections or w/e
    970 – yog voting jan there, slight non w/w points, slight maybe w/w for sunbae slot
    982 – apoc votes jaleb, puts in lead. Becomes MORE important potentially for wolves here? also 5 kinda matters as a wagon here… (then 2 posts later he votes phi, and yes @Apoc I’m making fun of you for this read )
    1026 – jan votes radishes, vc is phi 5 sunbae 4 jan 4 jaleb 3. Readslist doesn’t look terrible? Roman/wiggles/jump being relatively high v is interesting, especlally since not voting the wagon they were on (jaleb)…
    1033 – SR makes in interesting point about thingy’s 928 echoing bop’s 914. Slight not w/w maybe?
    1034 – panther w bit of shade on jaleb, no vote… don’t really know what to make of that
    1065 – wiggles HARD town on billy/smith/boq, solid town on tom/owner, more townlean end on jan/yog/bop/thingy/ss/panther
    Null set 4 villas, 1 wolf, 1 ? (soul/cron)
    Wolf pile 4 villas, 2 wolves, 2 ?s (radishes/sunbae, 4mask)
    1080 – fable hops onto jaleb, 5/4/4/4 (sunbae 5, jaleb/phi/jan-contrainer 4)
    1092 – from ss: if radishes/jan were v/v, this comment doesn’t look great, all the more so given he was voting a smallish villager wagon
    1094 – mask w/ the defense of radishes

    1097 - *****jaleb with his “town circle”
    13 others. 2 flipped wolves, frog (had been shaded, some wanted him dead), visor (hadn’t I don’t think)
    Does *NOT* include jan OR radishes/sunbae. Also argues against the sort by postcount metric. POSSIBLE open agenda pushing here
    Others on list: bop/boq/smith/ss/thingy/yog
    Maybe 3/6 wolves on that list or so? Spit balling but I think it’s +wolf equity there in general

    1112 – radishes hard claiming vt seems super unlikely to be wolf PR there, and is itself I think thinly villagey? Wolves have some level of vig power, HAVE TO expect town will have some too, any normal vig is going to seriously think about shooting into EOD wagons that claimed vt (radishes AND jan at this point)

    1115 – sr calling ss/jaleb w/w here semi jokingly (awkward response from jaleb there in 1121, not sure what to make of it, quoting it here in case anyone cares
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#1121)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#1115)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1114)
    ...
    Hey radishes! A good thing about my readslist here^ is that you don't need to have read the game to be able to digest/ponder on it ^^
    Feel free to read through some or all of it when you have time and pick out stuff you agree/disagree with or in general find interesting.
    SS/jaleb w/w =P
    That's a trap.
    Maybe thin w points for SS there? Jaleb already w so awkward response could just be b/c he was responding about himself tho

    1119 – apoc votes, jaleb/radishes/jan 5/5/5, a bit less than 3 hours until EOD
    If jan is v, yog/sunbae as v/v seems WEIRD here? Not locking in since just a goon slot up for grabs but WEIRD. Keep an eye on that wagon in particular; do wolves hop on to save jaleb or maybe sunbae?
    1126 – apoc w the fair point that radishes didn’t self prez on jaleb, voted jan instead
    1134 – ss’s push to make manasi a 5-5-5-5 wagon feels a bit ugly here, but otoh does he care THAT much unless one of sunbae/jan is also a wolf?
    1145 apoc tr’ing radishes for bad play
    1148 – apoc shading cron/billy/smith/boq slots (also 2 villas lol) (1150, 4mask defending billy specifically)
    1152 – wg making a decent response against manasi wagon, some + equity as well if sunbae town
    1172 – amy upping wg townread
    1175 – not a great looking post by jan wrt thinking jaleb is a bad lynch, but the unvote on radishes seems ok looking?
    1182 – ss w small shade on jaleb here, ok looking question
    1184 – jan shading visor at the gun as well, maaaybe a touch of antispew but feels premature in such a world
    1197 – radishes vote plummeted, and thingy hops onto manasi making it THE wagon, 7/5/5 manasi/jaleb/contrainer, nagl
    1203 – maybe VERY thin v points for tom hopping onto chris instead of the manasi townwagon, with jaleb as the only other chris voter here?
    1215 – probably not a great look for billy here hopping onto chris from manasi
    1228 – lissa thin v on jan, v on radishes, w on jaleb
    1244 – bit of a yikds vote on chris by mask
    1250 – interesting note from phi
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1250)
    T om + billymills suddenly getting along seems like a red flag
    1251 – billy’s UNVOTE of chris as it’s gaining momentum is… seemingly a bit needless if wolf? Wifom blah blah blah but feels villager looking
    1259 – that plus lissa makes jaleb lead wagon, 6/6 on him villas
    1265 – smith doubt casting the manasi counterwagon (something something wolf!smith probably doesn’t make this post but w/e )
    1283 – billy back on chris
    1282 – wiggles v on thingy
    1286 – this… seems like bull$#@! from ss? Idk, the logic here seems to argue against voting manasi but he’s still sitting that wagon
    1295 – ss thinly arguing against chris wagon, but weak enough it probably didn’t super matter
    1297 – wiggles HARD town on wg
    1300-1313 or so: wiggles, amy, lissa, sr all weighing in thingy v
    1323 – I feel like this is outside of my wolf range in general, much more so in a game state with one wolf lead wagon and (if jan v) a $#@!load of villas as counterwagons
    1332 – this (jaleb hopping ont the cw here).. probably should have been worth some v points for manasi? Idk if that’s thinly v on ss slot though; if it’s a wolf then… jan’s a wolf too? Maybe they just felt like there was momentum towards rebuilding manasi wagon since vc’s were stagnant a bit?
    1337 – terrible vote on manasi by smith *shrugs*
    1344 – kinda ugly post from SS to jaleb here? then again SR said he liked it so wtf do I know
    1361 – 1 hour left, tied for fourth biggest wagon, chris claims even vig. Oof
    1377 – kinda decent from billy here…
    1441 – a bit of an ugly looking hop onto cuth by boq there
    1455 – that unvote by mask sort of looks villagery
    1468 – ss hopping onto the NEXT town counterwagon that could go through
    1482 – jan hopping onto cuth too
    1489 – is this villager or wolfy of SS while voting cuth as a growing cw to jaleb?
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1489)
    without taking wagon formation into account i'd prefer manasi over cuth, but i don't trust anyone on the manasi-wagon really, and im pretty okay with everyone on Cuth. Edit: Not Jan
    i skimmed cuth's ISO. i didn't see any depth of thought really, so it's a fine lynch.
    I kinda don't wanna take this jaleb lynch away from wiggles tho...
    1531
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#1531)
    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#1512)
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#1505)
    I don't get what w!jaleb is doing right now. I don't get what V!Jaleb is doing either.
    he just claimed "some kind of doc" (which in fairness is a somewhat sketchy looking claim here). Still solid on him being wolf here?
    Him not playing the game and then just claim here is the awkward part.
    If he intended to claim he could have done so an hour ago and give town more time to react.
    If he didn't want to claim, why not bleed town since he did post a bit, just .. nothing great.
    This feels like the worst of both worlds.
    A second person who’s voting cuth and also doubtcasting jaleb here…
    1555 – I have NO CLUE what to think of 4mask burying a useless vote on amy with 9 minutes to go on a key spot wagons wise
    1634 – mask popping onto cuth here, late enough that jaleb was alredy "saved", maybe VERY thinly v?


    I think if I were to throw down a d1 based reads list it'd probably read SOMETHING like...

    robik (ic, reads don't matter)
    wg/billy/yog
    owner/jan(contrainer)
    sunbae/tom
    boq/thingy/mask
    bop/panther/cron
    ss(liberal)

    onto d5, skipping d2-4 unless i have time for it later...
    this would suggest mhsmith is willing to vote Panther

    Panther's my favorite pick, Sunbae's favorite pick, t om is currently voting him

    I can see that being 4 villas all willing to vote Panther

    but we have Robik on me, and yog doesn't wanna vote panther

    that's 2 villas not voting Panther in that scenario, which means we can't risk anymore villas being off-wagon

    which also means we're likely just screwed anyway if the subs aren't wolves
  22. Day 6#6243

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed my town reads aren't voting together pretty...

    my town reads aren't voting together

    pretty sure that's a catastrophic sign
  23. Day 6#6241

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Boquise If you're around I have a question for...

    @Boquise

    If you're around I have a question for you, but I need to ask it real-time.
  24. Day 6#6240

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I have. I mostly paid attention to your analysis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#6198)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#6195)
    ##Vote Boquise

    since Panther isn't gonna happen
    Have you read my posts this Day?
    I have. I mostly paid attention to your analysis of the votes on you. I was disappointed in it being mostly "the ones who voted me are suspicious, and those who didn't aren't". The only person you called a villa out of the people voting you was Roman who had died. And then you made a meme post after which felt weird to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#6211)
    @billymills Dude, Thingy is a wolf, but if you're not and don't want to go there, come here
    why do you think I'm a wolf, yog?

    Quote Originally Posted by t om (#6233)
    Think ill
    ##Vote Panther

    And not really care if its right
    I'd go here

    But I don't think we have the votes
  25. Day 6#6196

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I'll be able to check in tomorrow again

    I'll be able to check in tomorrow again
  26. Day 6#6195

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Boquise since Panther isn't gonna happen

    ##Vote Boquise

    since Panther isn't gonna happen
  27. Day 6#6194

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed while I don't feel Panther has even been that...

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6192)
    Lol x posting

    I thought the panther post felt v but two people I’m null on are telling me I’m wrong so that’s fun

    I’d bug panther but he has two posts left before last two hours so idk if it’s worth it there

    Off the cuff the wolf case on panther is he’s mainly pushed villas (I think?) and there’s been some gross stuff here and there, and he’s in the pile of “if villa game should be going better”... maybe also that I feel town!him is usually good at reading me so that feels off to

    The villa case is he seems to care about the game, he’s posted some stuff that seemed villagery at spots, and I feel like there was something else too (I also have no idea why he said he’s out of his wolf range but I don’t know him THAT well so *shrugs*)

    Actually I should probably put meaningful effort into looking at him in rest of reread...

    I’m gonna conserve posts for a bit because I don’t know how bloated all my to dos are gonna get, I guess anyone who wants to can/should @ me with questions/thoughts since im meeting some friends soon

    Like, I dunno... for anyone who has me in POE or something, pretend you think I’m a villager and talk to me that way and/or see how that impacts your game view, maybe there’s something helpful that can be done together? I don’t know, feels like I’m grasping at straws but maybe there’s something that can be done with it.
    Actually that whole paragraph is probably just is probably just terrible, I don’t know. Sorry.
    while I don't feel Panther has even been that villagery at spots, I think you should consider it from this POV:

    A good wolf across many posts is bound to make some villagery posts. They are, after all, trying to replicate their villa games. Or most wolves do, at least. And while I myself can be persuaded by even just a single post, I haven't been so with Panther, and I especially feel that his overall game and overall commitment feels like that of someone who is not actively engaged in finding wolves - but actively engaged in faking that. The doubt that you have and that I have and that other villagers have had suggest to me that he's just simply a wolf.

    I guess that probably doesn't feel very concrete to you, but meh
  28. Day 6#6191

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed IAmRobik You have peeked me villager. Who do...

    @IAmRobik

    You have peeked me villager. Who do you think is the best vote in that scenario?
  29. Day 6#6190

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Mostly mhsmith If you're a villager: I am the...

    Mostly mhsmith

    If you're a villager: I am the mislynch the wolves are pursuing right now. So from your POV, you need to consider the two scenarios of me being a villager and me being a wolf. You should hopefully reach the conclusion that only the scenario of me being a villager makes sense.

    I'm the one being wagoned right now, and Robik is voting me, so it's likely GG, but anyone spreading out their efforts on anything but reading me or getting a counter-wagon to me going, are just straight up not focusing on something that is gonna save this game.
  30. Day 6#6189

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed My current headspace is this It feels like...

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6187)
    Thingy can you talk me through your current headspace a bit? I’m doing some work on earlier phases hoping to get SOMETHING useful from it but it’s mainly a slog and I have no $#@!ing clue if I’ll actually get anything truly useful from it so idk maybe there's something helpful you can talk about, especially f it’s simeth8ng you think is under discussed maybe? TIA
    My current headspace is this

    It feels like we're at a tipping point

    I am an easy vote. But there are some people defending me.

    Either 1) the wolves see that a ton of villas are suspecting me and they don't need to pile on, so they're just defending me (and spreading out on other people to ensure that there is no other viable wagon) or 2) the wolves are loading up on me because at this point the other suspects are wolves

    Or at least, that's what I think, because it would fit with my worldview of the wolves being pretty spread out right now across many wagons

    I feel like Panther wagon is the best bet at a clean wagon right now
  31. Day 6#6188

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed disappointing that neither Contrainer or Liberal...

    disappointing that neither Contrainer or Liberal have made any alignment indicative posts whatsoever upon subbing in
  32. Day 6#6186

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed When I was laying awake thinking about this game...

    When I was laying awake thinking about this game last night my tired mind felt Panther/Sunbae were an obvious w/w pairing, but after reading especially Sunbae's posts today, I'm back again on Sunbae villa - and Panther still wolf

    Sunbae's frustration/disheartedness feels pure, his flip flopping on his read of me feels pure (when as wolf it would be easy to just vote me here alongside Robik)

    I think we're probably still losing this game, but I'll consider it a personal victory if Sunbae is a villa and we found our way together

    but Panther looks like a non-starter for some weird reason and I guess at this point I just have to hope it's not because he's the wolf KP
  33. Day 6#6185

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Robik voting me makes it difficult to sponge him

    Robik voting me makes it difficult to sponge him
  34. Day 6#6183

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed It's easy If he's a wolf, he can say whatever...

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#6182)
    Reads more to me like a “eh $#@! you buddy for posting this stuff” sort of thing. Like, do people actually say $#@! like “I’m losing respect for you here and it makes me sad” as wolves to people they actually respect, all the more so in a spot like this? I guess I feel like I’d lose respect at HIM if he does $#@! like that as a wolf in this spot towards a villa tbh

    I guess MAYBE the whole “well if you’re villa it’s just because you’re pushing me (“without explanation” being more of the excuse I guess) dampens it, but it feels kind of needlessly obnoxious in that spot. I guess I’m willing to be talked out of it but that still feels kind of right? *shrugs*
    It's easy

    If he's a wolf, he can say whatever and it's excused

    If he's a villager, it's indeed a bit "obnoxious" - and Panther is a super kind and nice dude and probably wouldn't say something like that

    Of course, my read is biased from the fact that I find him wolfy outside of that, but it still feels right to me to read it this way
  35. Day 6#6037

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I will say that Panther doesn't have a very good...

    I will say that Panther doesn't have a very good track record of reading me

    So this could in theory be within his town range

    But as I recall, Panther was usually still easy to read as villager whilst being hilariously wrong on me, and that isn't the case here

    And even if we ignore his read on me, Panther's focus this game has seemed off. He's seemed to be commenting here and there without really pushing anything. Because he's just trying to float along.
  36. Day 6#6036

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed This doesn't seem like a very genuine response. ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#6032)
    Frog called Thingyman a villager on d1 for no stated reason (like most of his reads tho) and never said his name once besides putting him on town lists

    So they are probably partners

    Is that how we do it @Thingyman ?
    This doesn't seem like a very genuine response.

    You state yourself why Frog's reads are irrelevant, so what is the point of this?

    Once again, you're just trying to harp on something to seem like you have a reasonable excuse for voting me.

    If people can't see that, lol them.
  37. Day 6#6030

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Frog has 100+ posts and I can't read that right...

    Frog has 100+ posts and I can't read that right now

    so I just searched for "Panther"

    During early stages of game, he says "Panther could fool me any day so I'm not really going to bother there"

    which seems in line with how a wolf wouldn't bother giving a read on a fellow wolf, at least I know I've done that before

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog (#5378)
    Quote Originally Posted by Frog (#5371)
    Is there any chance we vote in here instead?
    ->

    1. billymills
    2. bopolis
    3. Chris
    4. Cron
    5. Panther
    6. Shad
    @bopolis
    @Shad
    @Chris
    @billymills



    I don't believe this is a coincidence that we're locking horns

    That you're in my VERY limited POE, and the majority of THAT POE, which I've kept well documented, is now voting me in unison

    I don't expect you to answer me because I think you're all wolves, but for $#@!s and giggles

    I want your thoughts on the two players in my POE who AREN'T voting me

    That would be Cron and Panther
    this is when Frog is not in a good position and likely to die, so there's a good chance he just wanted to anti-spew. My guess is Cron villa and Panther wolf.




    if anyone has a reason that Panther is a villager, tag me and I'll look into it

    if Robik says Panther vote is bad, I'm down to follow him as well
  38. Day 6#6028

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed like I can feel the game state right now and it's...

    like I can feel the game state right now and it's not good

    there's a lot of suspicion going around

    and then near EOD people will be like "let's just lynch low hanging fruit Thingy" and it will be an easy, excusable thing to agree on

    and we will likely have lost or be one lynch away from losing

    I'm being voted primarily because I am busy. That's a fact. Only Sunbae has actually presented a case on me and the case is just 100% wrong and based on misunderstandings.

    Play the GAME - read my posts. I've made a lot of them. They are villagery.
  39. Day 6#6027

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed btw there's a lot of people being like "maybe...

    btw

    there's a lot of people being like "maybe Thingy just is busy"... What is up with the maybe? I don't get it. Unless you think that I'd be dodging the thread as a wolf, it doesn't make any sense to say this.

    I'm busy. Period. But I've made over 100 posts. Read me on those posts. If you get the read wrong, c'est la vie, but the game is READING POSTS. So read my posts. Compare them to previous games.

    Lissa read me villa and she's the best reader of me of all-time. Apoc also flipped his read on me after actually seeing me post.

    Panther and Sunbae are suspecting me, and that is probably just because they're wolves.
  40. Day 6#6026

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Panther this feels right

    ##Vote Panther

    this feels right
  41. Day 6#6025

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed catching up quick and then hopefully I can do...

    catching up quick and then hopefully I can do some rereads

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#5927)
    Announcement

    IAmRobik is Town Innocent Child.
    man, I wish I had this role :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#5935)
    doesnt thingy notoriously hate cops? we dont have a cop, mods didnt put one in

    Odd vig, even vig, day vig, tracker, inno child

    no cop

    bop needs to die
    I notoriously hate doctors, not cops :P

    Also not sure why this is relevant at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#5937)
    bop was bussing frog but didnt wanna bury him with a wolf peek. which is why he came with clarifying he peeked owner green.

    he protected prolly thingy and/or owner from being a wagon with his "peek" and wanted phi/boq wagoned
    hmm

    I lean towards this being a villagery conspiracy theory

    but inside my head there is a slight worry of Cron/bop w/w shenanigans going on

    from my recollection Cron has been cop hunting almost and I was leaning towards that being quite villagery

    but I guess there's a small chance that Cron didn't care about cop hunting bop because they're partners

    meh, I don't really buy it, but I had the thought and now I'm posting it because whatever

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#5941)
    Even if bop is a villager, we aren’t clearing anyone as shc it gets killed, so as I said before it’s time to drop all that

    Aorn I feel best about lynching thingy

    On a side note, if I was a wolf, owner would be my pick as easiest mislynch if a villager (or boq). And owner has been notably not pushed on or wagoned like boq lately so gun to head on that alone I think owner deserves a very close look by all. Want to look at owner wagon from yesterday and how those votes happened and where they moved off to

    I saw plenty of other stuff I want to respond to or comment on but don’t have time right now

    Cron- can you not ignore my question about your frog unvote where you said you thought his posts were town but then said you were voting in spirit
    I don't like this post

    doesn't feel like the right kind of focus for Panther to have

    this is game time, a mislynch might lose us the game right here, so Panther should really just be focusing on "I want X lynched" or "X is a villager, stop voting them", but this seems like noncommittal wishy washy stuff, like particularly the part about Owner and Boq. Like is that where you are at this point in the game? Speculation on why some people have or have not been pushed?

    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#5951)
    @Cron
    @Panther

    I rescind my peeks. I was taking one last chance to eat a dayvig.

    I still think my peeks are all villas. Sunbae was villagy upon subbing in and I don't think the way he pushed phighter is a wolf going for a mislynch unless it was going for the immeadiate win because he basically left himself no room to be wrong.

    Thingy I listed as a villager because I think he cares more about the game if hes a wolf. He brags non stop about how he defeated 20 something villas as the last wolf and I don't think he'd phone in a wolf game because he wants to be able to protect that legacy and this game he's clearly phoning it in. I think him not caring much is probably villa thingy.

    Owner I have as a villa because I just think the way she is disconnected from $#@! in the thread is TWTBAW. I think a wolf would make it so their thought processes are easier to track and the fact that some of her pushes read like "1+2=apricots" make it likely shes just a villa.

    I went for the 'no result' peek hoping there was a chance even if wolves didnt RB me they could still think a villager could have.


    I still believe we should lynch Boq because he's been the scummiest so far. I thought his post expecting to be red checked was wolfy, I think his reaction of wolves pushing him when most the people on him were frog voters/roman (ie mostly if not all villas) is terrible and not a real thought. I think between the eod 1 and day 2(might be eod 2 and day 3 will recheck later) he listed a bunch of people as wolves who 1)ended up flipping villager and 2) he never really mentioned again so I think they were fake reads. I don't know about him being a vig but certainly he's the best chance to lynch a wolf.

    If not boq then SS, or Jan. I thought some of the stuff coming from Jan was villagy but I also think if he was a villager he wouldnt have flipped back on his phighter read.

    coming back to my peeks still being good, when i saw i didnt eat the dayvig immeadiately i thought I was wrong somewhere then I thought about it and if I was wrong and listed a wolves as villas, they probably just gank me anyways to give them villa cred. I think its more likely I was rolecopped or roleblocked and they just knew I wasnt a cop than I was wrong but I don't think im gonna bet my life on it thus im just rescinding.
    I'm not "phoning" it in

    People need to stop saying this

    I am legitimately busy. Just THIS day phase alone has more posts than the entire game on Diablo forums that I tried earlier this year. I can't keep up with a game like this anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#5979)
    Gonna keep it simple stupid and get back on track

    who is posting villagery?

    thats yog, cron, smith, tom

    robik is clear

    who is not posting villagery?

    thats thingy.


    i also reject bop's "thingy would care more as a wolf" theory because i got rekt last time i played with thingy for saying the same thing. he was just kinda ... there.

    im going ##Vote Thingyman
    Which game was this? In any case, the same still applies. It's not alignment indicative that I'm busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#5986)



    actually $#@! this

    string up thingy, ss, smith, panther, bop, and owner



    mask billy cron yog robik boq jan are villagers
    Can you show me a game where you made reads based on stuff like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#5993)
    actually it might be like

    thingy -> smith -> ss

    i thought smith was villagery during the whole boq flash wagon but the rest of the body of work is yikes now that ive actually laid it out next to everyone elses and its entirely possible he just didnt want to end the day early for various reasons as a wolf (boq being a wolf, wanting to get a day vig off, etc)
    I'm beginning to doubt my read on Sunbae again

    I think there's a decent chance that this list is 3/3 villagers - and at worst 2/3 villagers. I might be the one reading the game completely wrong, in which case I'd be losing us the game anyway in some way or another, but if I'm not, then Sunbae being this wrong is either 1) just a sign that he's a wolf, or 2) he is gonna cost us the game regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#5998)
    sunbae you made me want to do my own Excel voting thing

    pretty good case for "lynch Thingy today" imo

    this likewise doesn't feel like something villa Panther would post

    villa Panther knows my game maybe better than anyone here?

    and the fact that he's not actually reading me on my posts is a bad sign

    in fact, in regards to my posts he's previously stated that he likes my content, but "it can be faked as wolf", and now he's just trying to find various reasons to suspect me since I'm an easy target

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#6022)
    I got an emergency at home right now.
    Friend is crashing at my place after splitting up from her husband.

    Will get back into this if i find time/when things clam down/when the booze runs out.
    sorry for your friend, Jan, hope it works out
  42. Day 6#5910

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Cron voting me is not good if Sunbae really is...

    Cron voting me is not good

    if Sunbae really is villa, and I think he might be based on his reactions to the lynch today, then that's potentially 2 villa votes on me if he joins Cron

    with what 6 or 7 wolves left, that's already enough for majority or 1 away from it

    I really don't wanna be the game ending mislynch in the game I organized myself :P
  43. Day 6#5909

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed right now I'm just sneaking in posts from work...

    right now I'm just sneaking in posts from work while boss is away

    I'm gonna read up on Frog from phone later on bus trip home
  44. Day 6#5908

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed I don't even have internet at the new apartment...

    I don't even have internet at the new apartment yet and I for some reason decided to save 10 dollars or whatever and get a PC that can't get hooked up to wifi from my phone, sigh :P
  45. Day 6#5907

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed sigh I'm useless this game, I'm sorry I'm...

    sigh

    I'm useless this game, I'm sorry

    I'm afraid that at this point I probably need to get cleared via a peek or via someone's flip

    but regardless, I'm doing the best that I can and that's all I can do. I can promise one thing, which is that this will be my last game, it just isn't plausible for me to play mafia anymore :P
  46. Day 5#4932

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed and bold is not how you vote :D Boquise ...

    and bold is not how you vote

    ##Vote Boquise

    interestingly, this is the only person in my top 5 wolf reads that isn't currently a wagon

    oh, and Jan, but anyways, generally happy with the wagons - except Phi

    if I had more time, I'd be interested to look into whether this wolf team makes sense, but I'm just gonna hope it does :P
  47. Day 5#4929

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
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    Completed Off the top of my head This is mostly based on...

    Off the top of my head

    This is mostly based on pure tone reads. From what I've seen, some of these reads are not at all consensus, but yeah, I guess I just don't put stock into the same thing as some of you guys.

    Villagers
    Thingyman
    IAmRobik - cop
    Chris - vig
    Weatherguy
    billymills
    yogsloth

    Medium to small village leans (mostly just 'cause I need to reread some of these ppl)
    4maskwolf
    Cron
    SwedishSkumbag
    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    Phighter

    This leaves 10 people:
    bopolis
    Boquise
    Frog
    Jan
    mhsmith0
    Panther
    Roman
    Shad
    Sunbae
    t om

    36 players and 25% scum means 9 wolves. We've lynched 2. So 7 wolves left. Maybe 6 if we're lucky.

    So at least 3 of the above are villagers. Roman and Shad/Lissa voted Jaleb, so they can be villagers for now, though I need to look myself to see how dangerous their votes really were. Then last villager probably from Sunbae/t om/mhsmith - or 2 of those if I'm wrong on someone else ofc, which can easily be the case. t om's been fine and seems independent enough, but I guess I just have a feeling that I'd like to know their usual villa/wolf game more before locking it in, because I also don't know if he's really putting himself out there. As for mhsmith, he hasn't been actively wolfy, but from my recollection he seems very mechanics'y and weird focus'y in a way that I can't determine whether is wolfy or not. Mostly he makes longish posts that are difficult to read sometimes. I had thought Panther slightly villagery, but it felt like he flipped to a wolf read on me in a not believable way (besides Lissa and Sunbae, he probably knows my game best I think out of the players in this line-up?).

    So I'd start here:
    bopolis
    Boquise
    Frog
    Jan
    Panther

    And from those the only person I have nothing that I can say even a slightly villagery thing about from what I've read is Boquise

    but obviously I will try to come back Sunday to read up
  48. Day 5#4922

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
    Replies
    6,820
    Views
    50,302

    Completed And just to lay out my schedule: Today I had a...

    And just to lay out my schedule: Today I had a birthday party straight after work, tomorrow I'm working all day because of a premiere thing, Friday I'm helping with painting and stuff on the new apartment after work, and Saturday is the big moving day. I'm not sure if Sunday is part of this game day - if it is, I can maybe sneak in a few posts there, but I imagine the wifey would prefer I stay focused on getting our new home in order :P
  49. Day 5#4920

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
    Replies
    6,820
    Views
    50,302

    Completed Sunbae did a case on me or something and I...

    Sunbae did a case on me or something and I haven't responded to that

    I can easily "defend" myself against it, but I don't think that's the best use of my time unless anyone actually feels like I should do that, given I only have about 15 mins left,

    But maybe some people do... I did see some people mention it was a good case, but it really isn't. Which isn't a dig at Sunbae if he's a villager either. It's just that it's presented from a biased view, whether he's a villager or a wolf, and I can clear up any confusions and misunderstandings if that is needed. And if not, it's best to just focus on finding woofs.
  50. Day 5#4919

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Thingyman
    Replies
    6,820
    Views
    50,302

    Completed With a bit of distance from the game, I'm no...

    With a bit of distance from the game, I'm no longer sure that Sunbae is a wolf.

    Honestly, a big part of my original read is something that I can't expand on. But it made me quite certain, and I'm now no longer certain. We'll just leave it at that.

    Partly, I'm beginning to think that so many people have defended him in a way that wolves wouldn't dare defend him that he might just be spewed town. And it makes sense. If town Sunbae/town me is going at each other, it's easy to just defend the one and leave the other to hang, after which the other will look bad.

    But mostly, I'm thrown for a loop by his posts yesterday that aren't pertaining to me. Specifically, I liked his posts about "the wolves powerwolfing" and also stuff like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4462)
    Mask,

    Who are the wolfy players? Who are the villagery players? Can you leave mechanics entirely out of it for this one exercise please? I just want to know who you think has been posting well and who has been posting poorly along with why. I can't shake the feeling that you're digging into mechanics stuff because it's easier to talk about as a wolf than reads are (I know I've done that before plenty of times!). I'd like for you to be a villager cause you were one of the first villager reads I gave in this game so please help me clear my mind.

    For example, I've been pushing a Visor, Phighter, Thingy, Jan world for a while. How do you feel about their posting? Where are my errors if there are any? I've also been calling Yog, Weatherguy, Cron, Panther, and Roman villagers. Do you agree with those? If not, who and why?

    Help me solidify your spot in my head so I can settle in on a final reads list because with the way Visor was talking about me and then voted me, I'm think there's a good chance I'm getting blasted tonight if he's a wolf and I'd like to have a final read on you.

    - - - - - - - -

    Cron, Panther: You two might be right on the other one (its what happens when you get a bunch of good players together and a 10 posts per real life day restriction going, some people post well and are wolves) but at this point I think it's more likely that you two are just villagers suffering from the frustration of - I reiterate - five real life days between any information and getting paranoid. Both of you have been working hard at various points in this game trying to solve the game.

    - - - - - - - -

    One post left
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4490)
    Last post for me in this phase. I don't know if I'll make it for end of day.

    My answer is to kill Visor. It doesn't matter if he's peeked or not, he's still the most likely wolf.

    I would then kill Phighter. People will say he's villagery for "it'd be crazy to do X as a wolf" reasons and they will be wrong/wolves.

    I would then kill Jan and Thingy. I am unsure of my order here. Maybe Jan first? Who knows? We'll be near Halloween by then.

    I have extensively written about those four. I think those 4 are all wolves and I feel really good about that. If you missed it, a mega post was made here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...95#post3562995

    Then kill Frog. Frog gives a $#@! about things happening in the game when he's a villager.

    Then kill Boq.

    After that it's shrug. I might be tunneling on Mask but I didn't find their reads post villagery. I thought having only Visor as a wolf read in that post is really sketchy. You have plenty of time until you have to make a decision there though so whatever and I don't have any experience with them so I'm not the most confident there.

    Then is Bop/SS if game is still going with a slight preference to SS going first.

    This is the line between my "people I'd see die" list and my "I think these people are villagers" list.

    As of now, I'm just assuming the claims are legit because, well, we've lost anyways if they aren't given the game state.

    If phighter is a wolf, clear owner. She kept suggesting he was SK and that's just not what wolves do to teammates imo.

    I think Shad's posting has been good and feel fine with them being a villager.

    Toms post to Phighter about "billy did the same approach you did to a t, why dont you find it villagery" was a solid post.

    Cron and Panther have been nipping at each other, but I feel fine with them.

    Billy's claim and unclaim and explanation seem fine to me as well.








    If this is it for me (either via lynch or night kill) well I did my best. I hope I did good - and right now I feel pretty comfortable with the worldview I've built - but if I didn't sorry. I tried hard, subbed into a widely wolf read slot, and feel like I showed mostly everyone that I was a villager. Lots of good people in this game, a really pro wolf structure (the 5 days + 10 max posts per day combo , not the actual set up. I think making it 25 posts per real life day would make this pretty much solid though. It's been nice to have time to digest things, step away from the thread, and not worry about $#@!), and subbing in makes things hard.

    I've had a good time playing. My bad again to Yog (who i think is a strong, strong villa read) for earlier. Been kinda pissy lately overall but not your fault. It's been fun to solve with Panther and if he's a wolf well, that's alright, you got me.

    If this isn't the end for me then I'll likely see you Tuesday night where we'll start it all over again (hopefully with a wolf flip and more certainty on how views).



    Much love


    It does sort of feel like Sunbae honestly thinks he is a possible wolf kill. Which obviously would have to be a faked thought if Sunbae's a wolf. There was more that I liked, too, I recall.

    Also, Visor voting Sunbae alongside me feels like a setup to me. Very icky.

    _________

    For good measure, I started to reread Sunbae. Because I felt there were specific things to look for that might be tells.

    In this game he's been dodging me. I honestly still feel like it's a bit rude, like... We're playing a reunion game, it might be my last game ever, and villa Sunbae just... Doesn't ever talk to me? I guess I just didn't wanna believe that.

    But I wanted to look into that, whether he dodges people in this way as a villa or wolf + him having as many wolf reads as he has this game and how he deals with those reads + how he generally deals with pressure.

    Cliffs: I started this whole thing and stopped halfway, because I don't think it's worth the time. I'm getting very inconclusive results. But here is what I have anyway:

    June Light Game - Sunbae Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#32)
    I've never really enjoyed the phase of the game where we're just getting started so people try to read into and nitpick the most minor details of opening posts. I think it often just results in people arguing about irrelevant things and starts everything off on an aggressive vibe.

    I prefer to start off by just chatting with people about random stuff and get the thread vibe to be laid back and friendly. Let the village get comfortable with each other and the idea of working with each other. Wolves struggle in those environments imo and excel in the "everyone is aggro at each other" ones where they can just sit back and let people yell at each other.

    So I'll start off by saying hello, I hope everyones having a good day, and comment on the fact that I just got back from lunch and saw a preview for a movie called "Yesterday" where some dude is the only one that remembers the Beatles and profits off making their songs his. It seemed kind of cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD6FDkUXSZQ
    So THIS is the Sunbae I'm talking about. It's one of his very first posts in this game. I don't feel like this is the Sunbae that we've had in this game, or at least the Sunbae that's been interacting with me.

    But I recognize that Sunbae subbing in here might be what is the vital difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#38)
    Still feel good with my vote though
    I'm mildly disappointed that I'm a villager this time. I normally hate wolfing but it's been so long that I'm kind of itching to do it again.
    This is a very interesting post. It at least honestly says that wolf Sunbae would be active (and likely to powerwolf?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egix96 (#44)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#38)
    Still feel good with my vote though
    I'm mildly disappointed that I'm a villager this time. I normally hate wolfing but it's been so long that I'm kind of itching to do it again.
    Oof, looks like I'll be keeping an eye on you then
    lol

    I'm pretty big on transparency and being concise (at least concise regarding my opinions on peoples roles). I don't feel uncomfortable talking about things that I prefer or want to do. Here, I haven't wolfed since the hydra games which I think were last summer? Maybe earlier? I don't think I'm that good of a wolf anymore (it just requires way more time for me to do well than I'm able to put in now) but I'd like to see if I still could. Maybe next time.
    But if he is wolfing here, it's the first time in a long time apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#68)
    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#51)
    ##Vote Chemist1422
    What if Chemist's town?
    Chemist could certainly be village. They have done nothing alignment indicative. I voted them because I wanted to get their attention.

    I vote often because I think voting is the best way to both open dialogue with people as well as the best way to gain reactions which help make reads. I in no way have a significant opinion on anyones role yet.
    Sunbae talks a lot about his usual game, which is helpful. As he confirms here, he's happy to vote. Upon his first day of subbing in here, he only votes once. Actually, scratch this completely. One, he subbed in, but more importantly, he subbed into a day with an outed wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#71)
    Sorry to hear about troubling times Percy. I've been having a really rough go of it the last handful of months as well. It's odd to visibly notice the frustration seeping into things I used to be positive about yet not really be able to stop it. I'm hoping a dip back into werewolf - a place that has brought me some joy over the years - will help me get in a better frame of mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#97)
    And yeah, my goal is to lead the thread to a more laid back and friendly vibe. I've done pretty ok by doing that. Some people prefer the aggro version of werewolf where we just yell at each other but I find that one so much more tedious so I try to go in a different direction. If that's your cup of tea, that's cool too. Just probably won't get me to bite at it very hard.
    Again, this is the kind Sunbae that I'm referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#260)
    My concerns with Stepifan are as follows:

    One: For someone that has been on #teamprogressnotlove, they haven't really ... made progress. They voted Capage and Dya once they suspected them, but they haven't really been digging into much. They aren't turning over new rocks. They are spending a lot of their time talking about how talking about non game things are a waste.

    Two: Percy has wolved with Stepifan and said they used the same aggression tactic in that game as they are using in this one.

    Three: Arya has been in a game with Stepifan as a villager and says they weren't this defensive and combative.

    Four: I thought their shift on Dya once Dya started focusing on them was more of an attempt to discredit the things being said than because they found Dya wolfy.



    ##Vote Stepifan
    just noting for myself to see if this is a kind of post that Sunbae's made this game, out of curiosity

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#448)
    I have to go.

    I'm more than fine just killing Kliff, seeing their flip, seeing the NK, and sorting through this tomorrow if it's not me.

    But let me make one final thing abundantly clear: If at any point in this game Step flips wolf, we have to kill Andrew. Their manner of defense has gone well past "I think this person is a villager so let's not lynch them" to taking doing whatever they can to prevent them from being lynched (including apparently taking quotes from other games out of context to make them look good). We don't have to resolve Step today or anything, but just keep this post in your back pocket for the future if it comes up.
    this feels like an associative thing I've seen from Sunbae this game, so I'll award that villa pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#559)
    So I reread Step's iso in full.


    Reads from Step:



    Note: I'm treating the Percy powerwolfing comment from early made by Step as RVS based on their posting later that it was an RVS vote from post #196.

    Their first read was Egix wolf in post #95

    I also find this rather scummy about egix: "I would expect the average person to at least make a mental note of the SoD time when signing up for a game." Lowkey shade saying kliff is not "average" there. But since it's just expectation there aren't much to say.
    And no it doesn't say one is specifically townier or scummier than the other one but who would likely be a prefered wagon in a situation that requires to kill one
    and reiterated in post #139 with "i was giving my opinion about the part i think egix is scummy" and in post #145 with "I was only giving my opinion about finding egix scummy".


    Then there's a vote on Capage for trying twist their words and an entire interaction with dya ending with a vote for similar reasons "you jumped on me for no good reason while not making any progress and I actually want to wagon you." and later "I find every of dyachei's accusation pretty stupid and manipulative".


    They then give Alice, Andrew, Geyde, Egix, and Arya as villa reads.

    Ask what the case is on Egix because they haven't been reading it.

    Call a post by Egix villagery.

    Ask if they can lynch percy.

    Day ends.



    I have concerns still. Notably:

    They seem to forget that they have Egix as a wolf. It was their second most reiterated read behind Dya=wolf and then at eod they just throw them in as a villager while Egix is getting wagoned, ask about the case, and make a quick post saying na villagery lets lynch percy maybe. It was also their wolf read with the most basis on the players actions. The capage and Dya votes were for feeling that people were twisting their words to come at them. At no point do they talk about an Egix post, call them villagery, or explain what changed. It just ... changes ... when Egix is top wagon and about to be lynched. It reads to me as opportunistic credit.


    There are secondary concerns. I dislike their insistence that progress not love needs to be made yet spending the vast majority of their posts talking about things other than reads to progress the game. I dislike how much fight there had to be to wagon them, especially given that the fight was about people resisting while yelling about there being no resistance. I dislike them explaining away their meta experiences lining up with their wolf game according to two different people by saying they are just changing it up. While Andrew is quoting posts to say "no, see, he's totally the same as his villager meta", Stepi himself is saying "I know I'm in my wolf meta but that's because I'm changing it". Essentially, it feels to me that every defense about Stepifan has been shrouded in ulterior motives. No resistance while there is a lot of it. Villa meta while Stepi says it's not. Hiding behind a peek of him that was made after two posts. Nothing has been defended by his actual reads or pushes. It just feels ... wrong.

    I am trying to keep an even keel wrt stepifan. It's why I moved around yesterday despite him being my best wolf read. But when I read and reread him and eod it just lines up as a wolf to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#591)
    I read Capagne's iso. There's an interesting pattern in the iso:

    I like the vast majority of their posting. I read through their normal comments and feel good.

    Then they vote someone and I hate it.

    They vote percy here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#165)
    Quote Originally Posted by Geyde (#162)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egix96 (#158)
    P1

    Percy / Stepifan interaction starts off forced.
    Step defends Kliff in a weird way. Only wolf of no wolves in thread by that point considering thread direction ("I'm only scum here so I have to do something").

    I think Kliff's opener comes less from scum considering how thread handled it. It's purely NAI but it's a sizeable point of discussion here for very little reason.
    Scum involved? I think so since thread shouldn't move that much to talk about something that minor.

    Sun and Egix seem fairly natural in thread.

    Don't think much of anyone else.

    Presuming that chill == natural (implies towny)
    I don't really think that 44 is AI for me tho
    I can easily have that sort of attitude as scum
    And 43 is pure null so...


    If something is town I would say it is mate.
    I'm not sure what's purpose of egix's defense here. Do you think smileys have an effect on you finding his posts chill or natural?

    Percy voting this early seems to be out of his meta as he always preferred a late vote. @Percy, what's your read on Stepifan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#174)
    Actually, let's go

    ##Vote Percy

    since he haven't responded to my question yet.

    Percy didn't post between these two posts. It takes place overnight. Voting percy for now answering the question in those circumstances feels off.



    They vote Step:

    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#165)
    Quote Originally Posted by Geyde (#162)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egix96 (#158)
    P1

    Percy / Stepifan interaction starts off forced.
    Step defends Kliff in a weird way. Only wolf of no wolves in thread by that point considering thread direction ("I'm only scum here so I have to do something").

    I think Kliff's opener comes less from scum considering how thread handled it. It's purely NAI but it's a sizeable point of discussion here for very little reason.
    Scum involved? I think so since thread shouldn't move that much to talk about something that minor.

    Sun and Egix seem fairly natural in thread.

    Don't think much of anyone else.

    Presuming that chill == natural (implies towny)
    I don't really think that 44 is AI for me tho
    I can easily have that sort of attitude as scum
    And 43 is pure null so...


    If something is town I would say it is mate.
    I'm not sure what's purpose of egix's defense here. Do you think smileys have an effect on you finding his posts chill or natural?

    Percy voting this early seems to be out of his meta as he always preferred a late vote. @Percy, what's your read on Stepifan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#240)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepifan (#202)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#199)
    why is that wolfy?
    lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepifan (#204)
    Quote Originally Posted by Percy (#201)
    Thank you, Dya for being a voice of logic and reason. I like playing games with you too.
    lol
    Are these lolcats?

    Honestly I enjoy Dya's push and these reactions aren't the best.

    ##Vote Stepifan
    I don't like "are these lolcats" at all. It's like they wanted to comment about the situation and didn't know what to comment about




    They vote alice here


    Quote Originally Posted by Capage (#345)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#325)
    Dya,

    I don't think Geyde's posting is wolfy. I think they are incorrect about their logic but believe it to be correct and are a stickler for it. I think it's a pretty common mistake to think wolves will play optimally and I think they are operating in this game from the position of trying to figure out what wolves are trying to do and thwarting it. That's a villagery approach to the game imo.

    If we are going to blow up the Step wagon I think Alice would be a nice press instead of Geyde. They tiptoed around things and if Step is in fact a villager then they did it in a way that gets them "correct" points pretty easily.

    [49/50]

    Ill save my last post until I have to leave so I can vote. Right now I'll start the

    ##Vote Alice Liddell

    wagon to see how that develops
    One more thing about Alice. If Stepi's wolf, she's likely to be a wolf for trying to sway away votes from his wagon. If Stepi's town, she has a good chance of being wolf going for town cred. I'll join you for now.
    ##Vote Alice Liddell

    This is:

    "This is why alice is wolfy if step is a wolf"
    "this is why alice is wolfy if step is a villager"

    It's making a read on one player based on how another player flips, but calling them a wolf no matter what.






    Again, I think their other 50 posts are fine. But I hate all three of their votes as if they are struggling to find a reason to be voting. I'd like some thoughts on Capage from all who are willing to give them
    the ISO work here and the tone to it and the things he focuses on does seem similar to this game. Of course, it's not difficult to fake as a wolf, but yet I do feel like wolves often do change how they read people or how they provide content, often because it's hard to replicate what they do as villagers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#659)
    I think if you put a gun to my head right now and asked me who I think the wolf team is, I'd answer Percy, Geyde, Arya.


    We ended up lynching Egix who was voting Percy and the nightkill was on Alice who was SRing Percy. In this scenario, Geyde would have "found a wagon to go through" (his words) that not only was voting Percy but also said they were skeptical of Geyde for feeling "pockety". It's an ideal lynch and NK for a wolf team containing Percy, especially if Stepifan and Dyachei are villagers. Between Step/Me, Andrew/Me, Step/Dya I think there's a lot of potential fireworks for this wolf team to want to just quietly kill someone getting a few village reads and saying that "step/dya is v/v" and being suspect of Percy.

    I think Geyde's reason for SRing Egix isn't real. Geyde called him a wolf for "opportunistic voting" despite Egix making two votes all game - their first and last post. Egix also just voted for Percy on his way out, who wasn't being discussed heavily or garnering votes, so I don't see how that is opportunistic either. I also think Geyde's confidence level is higher on things such as Step being a villager due to having no resistance and voting Kliff being bad than on his other topics (and I'm currently believing it's because he knows it's accurate whereas the other things like Egix being a wolf is less certain - again "a lynch that will go through" rather than being confident in Egix being wolfy). I haven't played with Geyde but I'm going to treat him as a very good player based on his posting so far and these are the things I notice very good wolves doing.

    I'm less confident about Arya but I think they have spent a fair amount of their posts being hedgy on topics and not really taking hard stances. They've put forth the Stepifan defense while also saying they weren't sure since Stepifan was different than their previous game. Most of their posts have that type of caveat and the only time they seem to really dig in is to defend their statement about Stepifan being different from the villager game.



    I certainly don't think I've nailed it for sure, but this is my current thought. I'm hoping by being transparent about it it can get some discussion on the three of them.


    Right now I think my favorite vote is ##Vote Percy. Between Egix and Alice SRing them, the NK on Alice, and the lack of any skepticism to other players, I think it's the best wagon to pressure. Hopefully he comes in and blows me away and makes me feel silly about it because I want him to be a villager, but I gotta make my best vote.
    I'm not sure I exactly feel like Sunbae is wolf reading as many people as he is in this game and/or that he is wolf reading them to the same degree. But it's also not different enough to call it clearcut wolfy, so meh.



    He seems more friendly and his usual self in that game compared to this one. However, his way of reading people and iso'ing people seems pretty similar to this game. With regards to the dodging, it was difficult to evaluate, since it didn't seem like Sunbae was ever really suspected in that game, and I only read his posts.

    Him having subbed into this game makes it difficult to compare anyway, so I'm just gonna not bother anymore and spend my time on something else.

    Conclusion
    I'm leaving Sunbae be for now.

    I honestly still think his way of dodging me this game is a bit rude. If someone had said that villa Sunbae would sub in and not ever really interact with me, I'd be "yeah, right". But we haven't been around much at the same time, so maybe it's just that.

    And if Sunbae is villa, there is just the chance that HE doesn't think it's rude. And I guess as wolf he wouldn't actually want to be rude to me still. So he's not actually trying to be rude and therefore I shouldn't be reading into this at all, I've just now decided.

    Of course, he's pretty confident that I'm a wolf, and I look like a dumbass right now if I was just right all along, but c'est la vie, I don't claim to be good at this game anymore
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