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  1. Walrus https://i.imgur.com/0hQyd5L.gif

  2. Replies
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    I'll spec

    I'll spec
  3. *I think soah's setup would probably be more fun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#183)
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#181)
    I’ll read this thread eventually but my gut take is that soah’s setup will be more fun to play and to spectate than mountainous. Plus zack’s valid critique of mountainous.

    Would be curious if Apoc, visor, zack, etc would tweak soah’s setup in any way role-wise

    Look forward to spending too much time thinking about this
    I think soah's setup would probably be more fun to play and spectate, but some people are skeptical/uncomfortable with the amount of roles in the game, even though most are pretty minor. It still seems fine to me, maybe a few small tweaks would be good. After thinking about it more I'm fine with the peeks, they're fairly limited in a way that mitigates most of the issues I have with cops in champs. I'd make the watchers unable to see the nightkill, maybe. I'm still not sure why the factional kill should be optional instead of mandatory, but I imagine it's not going to matter 95% of the time anyways.

    Should run some test games
    *I think soah's setup would probably be more fun to play and spectate than the other setups brought up, including any of mine

    I'm guessing most communities enjoy role madness quite a lot, and likely more than other options.
  4. I think soah's setup would probably be more fun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#181)
    I’ll read this thread eventually but my gut take is that soah’s setup will be more fun to play and to spectate than mountainous. Plus zack’s valid critique of mountainous.

    Would be curious if Apoc, visor, zack, etc would tweak soah’s setup in any way role-wise

    Look forward to spending too much time thinking about this
    I think soah's setup would probably be more fun to play and spectate, but some people are skeptical/uncomfortable with the amount of roles in the game, even though most are pretty minor. It still seems fine to me, maybe a few small tweaks would be good. After thinking about it more I'm fine with the peeks, they're fairly limited in a way that mitigates most of the issues I have with cops in champs. I'd make the watchers unable to see the nightkill, maybe. I'm still not sure why the factional kill should be optional instead of mandatory, but I imagine it's not going to matter 95% of the time anyways.

    Should run some test games
  5. I also had this thought Maybe even a 3x3 and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#177)
    Also, I kind of ran out of creativity towards the end. I was thinking 2x4, or even 2x3, would be better.
    I also had this thought

    Maybe even a 3x3 and switch up the wolf roles a bit more
  6. SETUP DETAILS FOR 2X5 This is a semi-open grid...

    SETUP DETAILS FOR 2X5

    This is a semi-open grid setup meant for 17 players: 4 mafia versus 13 townies.

    Column 1 Column 2
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Role Cop
    Row A Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town 1-shot Neapolitan
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Tracker
    Row B Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row C Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row D Town Tracker
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Voyeur
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Motion Detector
    Row E Town Doctor
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Doctor
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Motion Detector

    *Town Jack of All Trades: 1x Vigilante, 1x Roleblocker, 1x Tracker.

    Method for randing:
    First you randomly select a number to decide the mafia team's composition of Power Roles (1-2), then you randomly select a letter to decide the town's composition of Power Roles (A-E). Fill in the number of Vanilla Townies needed to make the town team have 13 members total, and you have your setup. I.e. if you randed 2 and B then you'd get the following setup:

    Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Role Cop
    vs.
    Town Even Night Vigilante, Town Jailkeeper, Town Voyeur, 10 Vanilla Townies

    So the general idea is that as a townie, you know you're up against one of 2 possible mafia team compositions. And as a mafia you know you're up against one of 5 possible town team compositions. The more powerful the mafia team is, the more power is given to the town team, naturally.

    Important setup notes:
    • The mafia's factional kill must be assigned to a single member of their team each night. This means that the mafia's factional kill can, for example, be blocked by a Town Jailkeeper or tracked by a Town Tracker.
    • None of the included roles can self-target, including the protective roles.
    • Doctors, Jailkeepers, and Roleblockers are not allowed to target the same players on consecutive nights.
    • The Even Night Vigilante may only shoot on even nights (i.e. Night 2, Night 4, etc.).
    • The Voyeur's own action will not show up in their result.
    • There are no night 0 actions (aka pre-game actions).

    Role explanations:
    Please go to this page to read about the different roles if you're unfamiliar with them: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...oles-Modifiers

    • Majority will be in effect starting Day 2. Day 2 onward will end the instant a majority is reached.
    • Town wins when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
    • Mafia factions win when they achieve Parity and all other evil factions have been eliminated at any time.
    • Votes are not automatically locked at LYLO.
    • No Lynching is enabled. Vote for No Lynch to forgo a lynch that Day.
    • Mafia factional kills are mandatory. Mafia must submit a factional kill each night, or a player outside their faction will be chosen at random.
    • Mafia factional kills are assigned. They can be tracked, watched, or roleblocked.
    • Mafia may communicate at any time.
    • Tied votes will result in a player being lynched at random from among the tied players.


    Last year's 2x5 setup spoilered above.

    Option 1: Replace voyeurs and motion detectors with a 1-shot neapolitan or 1-shot role cop or something. Or just leave it the same. Maybe make some minor tweaks.

    Option 2: I kinda just threw this together.

    I sorted roles into different buckets:

    (1) Killing - Vigilante, JOAT (JOAT being in here is somewhat arbitrary)
    (2) Nightkill - Doctor, Jailkeeper, Roleblocker
    (3) Investigative - Neapolitan, Role Cop, Tracker

    Column 1 follows this pattern: Killing + Nightkill + limited Investigative, except for Row D (which replaces the limited investigative with a limited killing). 4 goons is kind of lame, and it's easier to design more interesting setups around a 3 goon + 1 roleblocker wolf team IMO.

    Column 2 follows this pattern: Nightkill + Investigative + limited Killing. I made the Mafia Rolecop a JOAT because I can, and added an odd night tracker which is weak but still of some use to compensate.

    I avoided combinations like Doctor + Roleblocker which can prolong the game and make everyone miserable. Every game has at least one town vig shot.

    Like I said, I threw this together fairly quickly, so feel free to rip it apart.

    Column 1 Column 2
    3x Goon
    1x Roleblocker
    2x Goon
    1x Odd Night Tracker
    1x JOAT (1x Role Cop, 1x Watcher, 1x Neapolitan)
    Row A Even Night Vigilante
    Doctor
    Odd Night Role Cop
    Jailkeeper
    Tracker
    Night 2 Vigilante
    Row B Even Night Vigilante
    Jailkeeper
    1-shot Neapolitan
    Jailkeeper
    Neapolitan
    Night 2 Vigilante
    Row C Even Night Vigilante
    Roleblocker
    Tracker
    Jailkeeper
    Role Cop
    2-shot Vigilante
    Row D JOAT (1x Vig, 1x Roleblock, 1x Track)
    Doctor
    Night 2 Vigilante
    Roleblocker
    Role Cop
    Even Night Vigilante
    Row E JOAT (1x Vig, 1x Roleblock, 1x Track)
    Jailkeeper
    1-shot Role Cop
    Roleblocker
    Neapolitan
    Even Night Vigilante
  7. I don't think it's a meaningful difference for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#166)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#164)
    I think a 17er setup is better to keep the number of games from spiraling out of control. There was a big push for 17er setups last year primarily because of that.
    I think the first priority should be player enjoyment. How much do the players enjoy the game.

    So ultimately, it should just come down to figuring out the best setup that we can - and if it's for 13 players, then we'll roll with that, and if it's 17 players, we roll with that.

    13 creates some organizational and jury-related issues. But that has to be second priority, I think. We will work it out if it comes to that.
    I don't think it's a meaningful difference for player enjoyment, but it is a meaningful difference for organizational and jury purposes.

    There's no reason a 17er would be less enjoyable than a 13er. I played in a season that used 13ers and a season that used 17ers, and I honestly can't recall a single comment made by a player on the size of the game affecting their enjoyment in either case.
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    Poll: The touted feature of mountainous is that it...

    The touted feature of mountainous is that it reduces the game to pure ww skill. However, this isn't really the case - it's a rough setup for a good, skilled villager who wants to play pure ww.

    If you rand town, there are no roles so the wolves have no reason not to kill you as soon as possible, limiting your impact and ultimately hurting your team. In a regular game, dying early as VT still helps your team because you enable the PRs to live longer. In mountainous, your reward for skillful play is a swift death where you end up having little impact on the game and the village's win equity.

    If you rand wolf, there's no excuse for why you keep not dying, limiting your ability to effectively wolf and ultimately hurting your team. How are you supposed to make it to Day 5 and onward if everyone knows there's no way you'd ever live past night 2 as town?

    So that feature doesn't really hold up. Power roles, used effectively, introduce variance and another dynamic to the game which make things more interesting.

    Mountainous isn't terrible, and there are more popular setups that are absolutely worse (e.g. cop 13er), but a well-designed V+ is always better.
  9. (better than a 13er)

    (better than a 13er)
  10. I think a 17er setup is better to keep the number...

    I think a 17er setup is better to keep the number of games from spiraling out of control. There was a big push for 17er setups last year primarily because of that.
  11. How does lylo work?

    How does lylo work?
  12. I didn't understand it at first either, I'll try...

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#153)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuthalion (#151)
    whenever i've played d6 (1-2 times) people've been massively confused about what the setup was
    I STILL don't quite understand how d6 ends up with the roles it does, and I've read the description literally more than a dozen times.

    And I like the idea of both vengeful and bodyguard (not on the same player), contrary to the opinions of Zack (and likely the majority.)
    I didn't understand it at first either, I'll try to explain.

    Roll a die. If the number is 1-3, mark down I. If it's 4-5, mark down P. If it's 6, mark down K.

    Repeat this six times.

    Look at how many Is, for investigative, you wrote down. For example, if you have three Is (i.e. you rolled a number between 1-3 three out of six times), add a town role cop.

    Repeat this process for P and K. Let's say you got 3 P and 0 K, so add a town roleblocker.

    Once you have the power roles from this, add vanilla town to fill in the remaining spots. There should be 10 villagers total, so in our example add 8 VTs.

    The number of mafia PRs equals the number of town PRs minus one. We have two town PRs, so we need one mafia PR.

    Roll a die. Let's say we got a 5, so we add a mafia tracker.

    Fill in the remaining spots with mafia goons so there are three total wolves. In our case, we add two goons.

    So our example setup is:

    8 VTs
    1 town role cop
    1 town roleblocker

    2 mafia goons
    1 mafia tracker

    Does it make sense now? I typed this out on my phone so apologies for any mistakes. I quoted the full setup in post #90 which should make it easier to follow along, the charts in particular.
  13. Resolved That's already a feature. Click "get votecount"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#15)
    Or rather let them request it but not have it posted.
    That's already a feature. Click "get votecount" instead of post votecount.

    EDIT: get votecount also works for spectators and dead players, too
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    And with that, the Raiders have (twice!) been...

    And with that, the Raiders have (twice!) been taken to the Super Bowl, and finally won the big game.

    I may post some retrospectives or occasional updates here or there, but after over five months the Raiders AAR is, for all intents and purposes, concluded.

    Thanks to everyone who followed along, I hope you enjoyed reading this thing as much as I enjoyed playing and writing it.

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    Chapter XII - Super Bowl LVII...

    Chapter XII - Super Bowl LVII


    Two years ago, the precocious Raiders made an unexpected run to the Super Bowl. Spirits couldn't have been higher in the locker room, and fans were ecstatic. Then they lost the big game to the Atlanta Falcons, but no matter. They're young, no one can win it all that fast, they'll be back next year, we're all just happy to be here. Then next season came, and the Raiders missed the playoffs altogether. Now the Raiders are at the Super Bowl again, but it's different from two years ago. The silver and black aren't the same "happy to be here" fans, coaches, and players. Nothing matters except the trophy. Leaked cell phone footage emerged of quarterback Ayron Hubbard muttering to himself about his "precious" and "sneaky little falconses." Two years ago, H'Ardclaim Noot thought football was fun and had an enjoyable work-life balance. Now, it's been 37 days since he last cracked a smile.

    Aaron Rodgers is hailed as possibly "the best quarterback of all time.... but he's only won a single Super Bowl." And that was over a decade ago, in another lifetime. Aaron is 38 years old, this might be his last rodeo, and he'll be damned if some youngbloods steal his last chance for glory.

    ---

    First Quarter

    The Las Vegas Raiders start with the ball on their own 25 yard line. The first play of the game is an incomplete pass to Dede Westbrook over the middle, as the commentators babble their nonsense. Austin Ekeler runs for 13 yards, Allen Fuller jukes and spins for 4 yards, and Ayron Hubbard senses a big opportunity on 2nd and 6 when he spots a gaping hole in the Packers pre-snap look.

    Note - the embedded streamable links may struggle to load and look like garbage. In that case, click the direct link above the embedded video, which will open in a new tab, load fast and look good.

    https://streamable.com/t8xhv

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/t8xhv[/streamable]

    Ekeler runs for 1 yard, then David Njoku catches the ball for 7 yards to set up 3rd and 1 on the Packers 21 yard line, and Fuller runs for 8 yards. Hubbard throws an incomplete pass out the corner of the endzone, intended for Donterrius Frazier. On 2nd down, Hubbard finds an open Mark Andrews, but it's rules incomplete as he failed to keep his feet inbounds. On 3rd and 10, Hubbard drops back and sees Packers defenders swarming over all his receivers, except one: he throws it straight ahead to Andrews, who tucks the ball in and goes down just past the first down marker. On the next play, Fuller takes a toss to the right into the endzone and draws first blood. Raiders 7, Packers 0.

    An unlikely hero emerges when backup safety Karl Joseph picks off Aaron Rodgers! Las Vegas gets the ball on Green Bay's 31 yard line, and after inching up the field with the running backs, fortune strikes again. Hubbard throws an easy checkdown to a wide open Fuller, who runs across open grass all the way for seven points. Raiders 14, Packers 0.

    The Packers fail to sustain a long drive, and end up punting. The Raiders get the ball back on their own 15. The boys smell blood in the water and waste no time getting back to work, and Hubbard slings it to Tandy for another big play to start off the drive.

    https://streamable.com/enh3e

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/enh3e[/streamable]

    Fuller runs to the outside for 15 yards, then Hubbard hits Tandy for 5 as the quarter ends.


    Second Quarter

    2nd and 5 on the Green Bay 27. David Njoku for 6 yards and a first down. Ekeler run for 13 yards. Hubbard scrambles for 8 yards, down to the one yard line, and punches it in on the next play with a QB sneak. Raiders 21, Packers 0.

    Aaron Rodgers says, "I'm Aaron Rodgers and I'm not getting embarrassed in the Super Bowl," and prevents the game from getting out of hand with a cromulent drive that ends in a touchdown. Raiders 21, Packers 7. Now lettuce see if the Packers defense can stop the skullfucking.

    Another big Raiders play comes on the first down of the drive when Fuller explodes outside for 38 yards.

    https://streamable.com/4j007

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/4j007[/streamable]

    4 yards to Njoku, an Ekeler run for 4, and it's 3rd and 2. The Raiders come out with an empty backfield, and for some reason the defense is playing loose coverage, so Hubbard audibles to a quick screen to Ekeler on the outside. The plan works beautifully, but Hubbard forgot this is Madden and not football, and Ekeler forgets how to change direction like a professional athlete and loses three yards. Jake Elliott nails the 49 yard field goal. Raiders 24, Packers 7.

    Much to the chagrin of Raiders fans, Rodgers storms back with another touchdown and fans close to the field hear him yelling about running the table. Raiders 24, Packers 14.

    Raiders ball, 1:16 left in the first half, own 25, let's put these cheeseheads in their place. Frazier notches 12 yards on his first catch of the game, the offense hurries back to the line, and Hubbard sails what should have been an easy completion over the head of a wide open Ekeler. Next play, Hubbard can't find anyone open as he dances around in the pocket, and finally tucks the ball and runs. Hubbard again fails to remember he is playing Madden and not football, the fool, and some slight awkwardness drastically reduces the space he has to work with. He makes it only a few yards before defensive lineman Deandre Beck slams into him behind, whispers "get crazy with the cheese whiz" and knocks the ball loose. A Packers linebacker dives on the ball and rolls out of bounds as cheeseheads rejoice. Raiders players, coaches, and fans scream at the ref that the ball clearly was already out of bounds, but Gruden can't throw the challenge flag in the last two minutes and the refs review to do their own review.

    https://streamable.com/zqjsl

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/zqjsl[/streamable]

    Rodgers capitalizes with a touchdown juuuust before the half ends, and the Raiders hopeful are quiet as the joyous blowout is suddenly a close game against Aaron $#@!ing Rodgers... Raiders 24, Packers 21.


    Third Quarter

    The Packers start with the ball and a chance to take the lead, but the drive ends with a punt instead. Hubbard and the boys jog out to the field, rejuvenated after an invigorating halftime speech from Jon Gruden. Hubbard has a twinkle in his eye, and the Raiders Magic conjures another first-play-big-play off a routine checkdown.

    https://streamable.com/4n9bx

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/4n9bx[/streamable]

    Hubbard follows with a play-action pass to Andrews for 8 yards, Ekeler runs for 4 yards, and Hubbard throws to Dede Westbrook for 19, who goes down at the 7 yard line. After an incompletion, Fuller runs up the gut to the 1 yard line, and Hubbard dives into the endzone on another QB sneak. Raiders 31, Packers 21.

    Green Bay answers with a mere field goal. Raiders 31, Packers 24. Another Raiders touchdown and even Aaron $#@!ing Rodgers will start to look more like Aaron Frickin' Rodgers. Vegas starts on their own 25, and a draw to Ekeler loses three yards as the quarter ends.


    Fourth Quarter

    Hubbard declares Code YOLO and throws a frozen rope deep to Frazier, but not even this is enough to thread the tight coverage as a safety bats the ball down. On 3rd and 13, Hubbard evades one sack, but the unrelenting pressure chases him out of the pocket, and Ayron goes down after a measly 4 yards. The Raiders punt for the first time in the game, and Green Bay gets the ball on their own 29 yard line with a chance to tie the game. But Aaron Frickin' Rodgers goes 3 and out, and the Packers punt it to the Raiders 28.

    Hubbard throws it short to Fuller for 11, then hits Quantavious Tandy for 18 yards on a crisp corner route. Green Bay stupidly challenges the call, it's upheld to the surprise of no one, and the Packers lose a timeout. Hubbard completes a pass to Njokue for 6 yards, who then drops an easy catch on the next play that would have gotten a first down as I start to wonder if there's a Madden conspiracy against tight ends. An errant throw on 3rd leads brings out the special teams, and Elliott puts the ball through the uprights for a 54 yard field goal that stretches the lead into a two-possession game. Raiders 34, Packers 24.

    Aaron $#@!ing Rodgers will not go gently into that good night, and he responds with a touchdown and screams about tables. Raiders 34, Packers 31.

    On 1st and 10, Hubbard ignores the wide open receiver underneath, summoning some first-play-big-play Raiders Magic as he channels his inner Grossman, thinks "chicks dig the long ball" and launches the ball downfield to Frazier.

    https://streamable.com/oc8hq

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/oc8hq[/streamable]

    1st and 10 on the Packers 26, 5:02 left in the fourth quarter, up by 3. Pass to Ekeler for 6 yards. Fuller up the middle for 8 yards. Hubbard rolls to the right after play action, looking for Westbrook in the end zone, but he's well covered by defenders, and he settles for an underneath pass to Njoku for 7 yards. Then this happens:

    https://streamable.com/g7bqb

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/g7bqb[/streamable]

    The Packers start on their own 25 with 3:08 left, down 10 with two timeouts. Oh, and Aaron $#@!ing Rodgers. Sure enough, he marches down the field. The Raiders sideline clenches their buttholes and prepares to get peppered... but something happens. Green Bay inexplicably decides that in the redzone, down two possessions, with less than two minutes left in the Super Bowl, well it's just the perfect time to establish the run. Their momentum stumbles, turnover on downs, 35 seconds left, game ends with a Hubbard kneeldown.

    https://streamable.com/ncj61

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/ncj61[/streamable]






    Las Vegas Raiders

    MVPs:
    QB Ayron Hubbard, DT Gerald McCoy, HB Allen Fuller, HB Austin Ekeler, WR Quantavious Tandy, EDGE Von Miller, K Jake Elliott, SS Karl Joseph

    QB Ayron Hubbard - 19/28 for 305 yards, 1 TD, 0 sacks. 7 rushes for 15 yards, 2 TDs, 1 fumble.

    HB Allen Fuller - 11 rushes for 91 yards, 1 TD. 2 catches for 29 yards, 1 TD.
    HB Austin Ekeler - 8 rushes for 43 yards, 1 TD. 3 catches for 56 yards.

    WR Quantavious Tandy - 4 catches for 90 yards.
    WR Donterrius Frazier - 2 catches for 61 yards.
    WR Dede Westbrook - 1 catch for 19 yards.

    TE David Njoku - 5 catches for 31 yards.
    TE Mark Andrews - 2 catches for 19 yards.

    EDGE Von Miller - 5 tackles, 1.5 sacks
    EDGE Andre Carpenter - 5 tackles, 1 sack

    DT Gerald McCoy - 10 tackles, 3 tackles for loss, 1.5 sacks
    DT Ahmad Bibbs - 4 tackles, 2 tackles for loss

    LB Correy Nawrath - 12 tackles
    LB Nick Kwiatkoski - 4 tackles
    LB Patrick Onwuasor - 2 tackles

    CB Anthony Brown - 7 tackles
    CB Josh Jackson - 6 tackles
    CB Desmond King II - 4 tackles

    FS Damontae Kazee - 10 tackles
    SS Vincent Curry - 6 tackles, 1 tackle for loss
    SS Karl Joseph - 2 tackles, 1 interception

    K Jake Elliott - 2/2 FG, 5/5 XP
    P Parker Brady - 1 punt for 50 yards



    Green Bay Packers

    MVPs:
    QB Aaron Rodgers, TE Adam Shaheen, WR Davante Adams, WR George Milliner, WR Randall Cobb, EDGE Deandre Beck, LB Blake Martinez

    QB Aaron Rodgers - 32/44 for 379 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 4 sacks. 1 rush for 6 yards.

    HB Phillip Lindsay - 19 rushes for 70 yards.
    HB James White - 5 rushes for 16 yards and 1 TD. 3 catches for 37 yards.
    HB Aaron Jones - 2 rushees for -3 yards.

    WR George Milliner - 8 catches for 82 yards.
    WR Davante Adams - 5 catches for 74 yards and 1 TD.
    WR Randall Cobb - 7 catches for 70 yards.

    TE Adam Shaheen - 7 catches for 98 yards and 2 TDs.
    TE Allen Hardy - 2 catches for 18 yards.

    EDGE Kerrick Carr - 2 tackles, 1 TFL
    EDGE Deandre Beck - 1 tackle, 1 forced fumble

    DT Muhammad Wilkerson - 3 tackles

    LB Blake Martinez - 10 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 fumble recovery
    LB Tyus Bowser - 4 tackles
    LB Joey Lloyd - 2 tackles

    CB Chidobe Awuzie - 4 tackles
    CB Jaire Alexander - 2 tackles
    CB JaMichael Carr - 1 tackle

    FS Martinez Griffin - 9 tackles
    SS Curry Rouse - 5 tackles

    K Jason Myers - 1/1 FG, 4/4 XP
    P JK Scott - 3 punts, 39.3 avg
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    My computer crashed in the middle of writing the...

    My computer crashed in the middle of writing the update. Apparently the universe does not want the world to see the Raiders in the Super Bowl.
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    in that case, I'd recommend clicking the direct...

    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#226)
    Neither of them seems to load well for me.
    in that case, I'd recommend clicking the direct link - should work fine
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    testing streamable embeds ...

    testing streamable embeds

    https://streamable.com/s/7cyy2

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/7cyy2[/streamable]


    https://streamable.com/s/c5aon

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/c5aon[/streamable]


    https://streamable.com/r145c

    What do you mean, most teams don't violently throw their star quarterback on the ground in practice?

    [streamable]https://streamable.com/s/r145c[/streamable]


    The higher resolution video (the middle spoiler) takes very, very long to upload and also a long time to load on the site.

    The first and last spoilers are half-size, and upload much faster and load quickly viewing them embedded on MU. And you can watch in smooth 60 fps! The downside is that the quality doesn't look great. I'll also include direct links if you'd rather watch any videos that way.
  19. Postgame#511

    Thread: Pi Minute Turbo!

    by Zack
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    Completed nice gamethrow poor sparhawk

    nice gamethrow

    poor sparhawk
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    seems like it has indeed been fixed :popcorn:

    seems like it has indeed been fixed

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    EA has released a patch that's supposed to...

    EA has released a patch that's supposed to address the issue. I'll take a look myself first before jumping right in to the Super Bowl.
  22. Resolved Dumbtells are stupid and I am more than happy to...

    Dumbtells are stupid and I am more than happy to implement anything that reduces or eliminates them.

    Counting and very basic division is not "part of the skill of ww."

    The actual votecount information that hurts wolves and should be removed is displaying who requested it.
  23. The weak PRs like that are functionally not much...

    The weak PRs like that are functionally not much different from an innocent child, and so end up as a get-out-of-a-mislynch-free card and not much else. I'd rather have a VT then adjust the rest of the setup to compensate.
  24. Resolved Might as well stop babying people with votecounts...

    Might as well stop babying people with votecounts altogether. The information is already there, after all.
  25. Resolved Those people are silly, I think it'd be a good...

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2)
    Had this and it was shot down for babying people when the information is already there.
    Those people are silly, I think it'd be a good change. As far as I know, there's no way to tell how many living players there are without manually counting it yourself, which makes it double tedious to figure out the number for maj.
  26. My personal opinion on all the modbot roles for...

    My personal opinion on all the modbot roles for champs.

    Town Doctor

    Jack of All Trades - using abilities from "sure"

    Jailkeeper

    Neapolitan (each night targets a player and sees whether or not they are a VT) - I had to look up what this was but it seems fine. Don't use it in the same game as a role cop, obviously. Only caveat is if you want to avoid obscure roles people might not be familiar with.

    Role Cop - assuming this gives the same result for VT and goon

    Roleblocker

    Tracker - remember the power level scales significantly depending on the number of roles and wolves in the game

    Vanilla / Goon

    Town Vigilante - in a 1-shot, 2-shot, or odd/even night form. Both games I played in Season 5 had a n1 kill and it was fine, but n1 vigs do leave the possibility of a benneh getting bimps'd. A full vig puts too much impact and role power in one player's hands.

    Wolf Watcher
    Bodyguard - dying for someone else feels weird for a champs game. A wolf bodyguard is silly.

    Wolf Doctor - feels lame in a game where any vigs will be limited

    Healer + Poisoner - these are cool roles but probably too fancy and swingy

    Motion Detector + Voyeur - I don't know why these were in 2x5, but they're obscure and $#@!ty and pointless.

    Town Watcher - oppressive role that takes little skill

    Wolf Vigilante - this wolf role is going to be 1000x more important than any other no matter how limited it is
    Alignment Cop - other people have already done a good job of covering the problems with this in a champs format

    Alignment Oracle - oppressive and peeks are meh in champs

    Arsonist + Firefighter - lol

    Day Vigilante - too jarring and impactful

    Full Cop - it's like an alignment cop, but worse

    Innocent Child + Masons - I'm against champs having roles with free peeks and/or that significantly alter how someone randing it might play

    Lover - lol

    Miller + Godfather + Framer - no

    Neighbor - I guess this is more debatable but I don't think it belongs

    Parity Cop - Not as bad as alignment cop but still

    Role Oracle - why does this exist?

    Suicide Bomber - lol

    Treestump - lol

    Universal Backup - no

    Serial Killer, Third Party / Neutrals, Multiball - get tarred and feathered
    Backup - nah

    Bulletproof - nah

    Flipless - lol

    Macho - why?

    Ninja + Strongman - as a 1-shot maybe?

    Recluse - no

    Vengeful - nah
  27. Regardless, I'll try to come up with some ideas...

    Regardless, I'll try to come up with some ideas for automated 17ers with normal kill and lynch mechanics soon™
  28. doesn't alignment oracle have the same problem as...

    doesn't alignment oracle have the same problem as alignment cop? it also has a particular and weird dynamic in that the wolves are going to avoid killing the player with that role if they can help it. I wouldn't use it. I didn't remember d6 very well when I initially brought it up, and I don't know that it's really viable. Any version for champs would be so heavily altered from the original version that it's basically a different setup entirely anyways.

    Smartbomb quoting last year's thread made me realize we're going through a repeat of the same problem, where the thread starts with basically "make a new setup" and not much more direction than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#89)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#88)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#87)
    There's ten different conversations going on here, think we should probably focus on banging out these issues first:

    - How many communities are going to be represented?

    - How many games?

    - How many players in each game?

    - How is the whole jury system going to work?

    Some of these are intertwined, but they need to be dealt with fairly definitively before a setup can really be decided.

    Regardless of the above, I believe the following should hold true:

    1. Use open or semi-open setups.
    2. Use the same setup across all games.
    3. Setup should be relatively simple and easy to understand.
    4. Stay as close to "standard" rules as possible. (This means full role flips too.)
    The OP is more detailed, but basically: Those things are indeed all intertwined, so the priority for me is FIRST getting a good setup decided. Then the rest is decided from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#98)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#94)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#91)
    rn people have given suggestions, now just choose a starting point
    I think the only concrete suggestions I've seen are expanding D6 or using the All-Stars setup. I don't think the latter is a good idea, and I can't speak to the first before actually seeing the new D6 setup. But to be clear, if there is a good D6 expanded to be made, I'm very onboard for that.

    I don't feel like I want to limit people's suggestions. To be clear, I'm not looking for people to suggest "15'er open" or "17'er closed". I'm looking for specific setup suggestions.

    The only hard limit is: I want the games to be automated, and to be for between 9 to 17 players. I PREFER 13, 15 or 17 players, but if there are no good suggestions for any of those and only a good suggestion for 9 or 11 players, then so be it. I PREFER open or semi-open, but if we don't get any good suggestions, then I guess we have to roll with closed.
    Thingy... my experience is that if you give no direction and a vague request to do something to no one in particular, it's not going to get done.

    Is there a specific reason we can't do 2x5 with some slight tweaks? As someone who played in champs, it seemed pretty much fine. Does there really need to be a new format every year?
  29. Replies
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    Oh $#@! me.

    Oh $#@! me.
  30. Replies
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    Views
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    Smartbomb quoting last year's thread made me...

    Smartbomb quoting last year's thread made me realize we're going through a repeat of the same problem, where the thread starts with basically "make a new setup" and not much more direction than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#89)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#88)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#87)
    There's ten different conversations going on here, think we should probably focus on banging out these issues first:

    - How many communities are going to be represented?

    - How many games?

    - How many players in each game?

    - How is the whole jury system going to work?

    Some of these are intertwined, but they need to be dealt with fairly definitively before a setup can really be decided.

    Regardless of the above, I believe the following should hold true:

    1. Use open or semi-open setups.
    2. Use the same setup across all games.
    3. Setup should be relatively simple and easy to understand.
    4. Stay as close to "standard" rules as possible. (This means full role flips too.)
    The OP is more detailed, but basically: Those things are indeed all intertwined, so the priority for me is FIRST getting a good setup decided. Then the rest is decided from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#98)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#94)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#91)
    rn people have given suggestions, now just choose a starting point
    I think the only concrete suggestions I've seen are expanding D6 or using the All-Stars setup. I don't think the latter is a good idea, and I can't speak to the first before actually seeing the new D6 setup. But to be clear, if there is a good D6 expanded to be made, I'm very onboard for that.

    I don't feel like I want to limit people's suggestions. To be clear, I'm not looking for people to suggest "15'er open" or "17'er closed". I'm looking for specific setup suggestions.

    The only hard limit is: I want the games to be automated, and to be for between 9 to 17 players. I PREFER 13, 15 or 17 players, but if there are no good suggestions for any of those and only a good suggestion for 9 or 11 players, then so be it. I PREFER open or semi-open, but if we don't get any good suggestions, then I guess we have to roll with closed.
    Thingy... my experience is that if you give no direction and a vague request to do something to no one in particular, it's not going to get done.

    Is there a specific reason we can't do 2x5 with some slight tweaks? As someone who played in champs, it seemed pretty much fine. Does there really need to be a new format every year?
  31. https://i.imgur.com/lwkTV8y.png

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#89)
    I'll probably be tarred and feathered for this, but what about multi-ball?

    EDIT:
    Also, each Mafia team should be at least 3 members, because 2v2v13 is pretty hard for mafia to win.
  32. d6: Investigative: Innocent Child -...

    d6:

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#374)
    D6 Mafia is a 13-player Semi-Open Variable setup designed to offer a more balanced experience compared to C9++.

    Town Power:

    To determine the town power, you must roll a die six times and mark down the numbers. The amount of times the die lands in a grouping determines the type of power role present in the game. Vanilla Town roles are added to bring the number of town up to ten.

    1-3: Investigative
    4-5: Protective
    6: Killing

    Investigative
    1 Town Innocent Child
    2 Town Role Oracle
    3 Town Role Cop
    4 Town Tracker
    5 Town Parity Cop
    6 Town Cop (with Night 0 peek)
    Protective
    1 Town Bodyguard
    2 Town Doctor
    3 Town Roleblocker
    4 Town Jailkeeper
    5 Town Jailkeeper + Town Bodyguard
    6 Town Roleblocker + Town Doctor
    Killing
    1 1-Shot Town Vigilante
    2 2-Shot Town Vigilante
    3 Town Vigilante
    4 Town Vigilante
    5 Town Vigilante + 1-Shot Town Vigilante
    6 Town Vigilante + 2-Shot Town Vigilante


    Mafia Power:

    For the mafia power roles, take the number of town power roles minus one, then roll a die that many times and add the role(s) it lands on. Mafia Goons are added to bring the number of mafia up to three.

    Mafia Roles
    1 Mafia Roleblocker
    2 Mafia Roleblocker
    3 Mafia Jailkeeper
    4 Mafia Role Cop
    5 Mafia Tracker
    6 Mafia Watcher


    For example, if the town power role rand is Tracker (4I), Bodyguard (1P), 1-Shot Vigilante (1K), then a possible mafia rand would be: Mafia Roleblocker (1), Mafia Roleblocker (1).


    Investigative:

    Innocent Child - unsuited to champs
    Role Oracle - I personally think this is a dumb role. What is even the point? Is this even pro-town?
    Role Cop - sure
    Tracker - sure
    Parity Cop - don't want cops in champs
    Alignment Cop w/ n0 - don't want a vanilla 13er for champs again


    Protective:

    Bodyguard - sure
    Doctor - sure
    Roleblocker - sure
    Jailkeeper - sure
    Jailkeeper + Bodyguard - sure
    Roleblocker + Doctor - sure


    Killing:

    1x Vigilante - sure
    2x Vigilante - sure
    Vigilante - I don't think champs should have a singular role which is comparatively much higher impact than anything else in the game
    Vigilante + 1x Vigilante - no


    2x5:

    SETUP DETAILS FOR 2X5

    This is a semi-open grid setup meant for 17 players: 4 mafia versus 13 townies.

    Column 1 Column 2
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Role Cop
    Row A Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Voyeur
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Tracker
    Row B Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row C Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row D Town Tracker
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Voyeur
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Motion Detector
    Row E Town Doctor
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Doctor
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Motion Detector

    *Town Jack of All Trades: 1x Vigilante, 1x Roleblocker, 1x Tracker.

    Method for randing:
    First you randomly select a number to decide the mafia team's composition of Power Roles (1-2), then you randomly select a letter to decide the town's composition of Power Roles (A-E). Fill in the number of Vanilla Townies needed to make the town team have 13 members total, and you have your setup. I.e. if you randed 2 and B then you'd get the following setup:

    Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Role Cop
    vs.
    Town Even Night Vigilante, Town Jailkeeper, Town Voyeur, 10 Vanilla Townies

    So the general idea is that as a townie, you know you're up against one of 2 possible mafia team compositions. And as a mafia you know you're up against one of 5 possible town team compositions. The more powerful the mafia team is, the more power is given to the town team, naturally.

    Important setup notes:
    • The mafia's factional kill must be assigned to a single member of their team each night. This means that the mafia's factional kill can, for example, be blocked by a Town Jailkeeper or tracked by a Town Tracker.
    • None of the included roles can self-target, including the protective roles.
    • Doctors, Jailkeepers, and Roleblockers are not allowed to target the same players on consecutive nights.
    • The Even Night Vigilante may only shoot on even nights (i.e. Night 2, Night 4, etc.).
    • The Voyeur's own action will not show up in their result.
    • There are no night 0 actions (aka pre-game actions).

    Role explanations:
    Please go to this page to read about the different roles if you're unfamiliar with them: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...oles-Modifiers
    • Majority will be in effect starting Day 2. Day 2 onward will end the instant a majority is reached.
    • Town wins when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
    • Mafia factions win when they achieve Parity and all other evil factions have been eliminated at any time.
    • Votes are not automatically locked at LYLO.
    • No Lynching is enabled. Vote for No Lynch to forgo a lynch that Day.
    • Mafia factional kills are mandatory. Mafia must submit a factional kill each night, or a player outside their faction will be chosen at random.
    • Mafia factional kills are assigned. They can be tracked, watched, or roleblocked.
    • Mafia may communicate at any time.
    • Tied votes will result in a player being lynched at random from among the tied players.


    I think these roles are all fine, except Voeyeur and Motion Detector, which IMO are too obscure and niche for this kind of community-gathering event. Similar to my thoughts on role oracle, these roles are kinda pointless. Why include them? It's either an innocent child with some window dressing or a really $#@!ty watcher, depending on your point of view.

    I thought 2x5 worked pretty well last year. Using that and d6 as inspiration for a similar setup this year wouldn't be the worst idea.

    Do you want a 13er or a 17er?
  33. What about d6? It's already in modbot.

    What about d6? It's already in modbot.
  34. I have a few questions about the setup (1) why...

    I have a few questions about the setup

    (1) why is the factional kill optional?

    (2) why isn't no lynch an option?

    (3) why no maj? (I assume this is personal taste and not really about the setup itself, but correct me if I'm wrong)
  35. I think the best way to do this is to have the...

    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#64)
    One thing that I was thinking about: A complaint about Champs was that people dying N1 are... over- or underrepresented in the votes? Is there a way to delay the N1 kill to N2 by disabling the Wolf nightkill and giving them a factional N2 shot?
    I think the best way to do this is to have the possibility of protective roles the wolves have to worry about, which soah's setup does.
  36. If you could make the watchers unable to see the...

    If you could make the watchers unable to see the mafia kill, they'd be fine
  37. Looking at soah's setup and it seems pretty good...

    Looking at soah's setup and it seems pretty good and well-suited to the format. I'd change the cops to something else (for champs, they are fine outside of that context). I'm also not a fan of watchers but that's probably not nearly as big a deal in a role madness setup.

    That's the most promising option. I'd start there and tweak it a bit.
  38. Replies
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    The Org hasn't had a game run since April 2018 ...

    The Org hasn't had a game run since April 2018

    CFC (CivFanatics) had games in May/June 2018, two in June 2018, one in September 2018, and one in January 2019
  39. #96

    Thread: Open 21er

    by Zack
    Replies
    96
    Views
    1,530

    Setup Idea forgot to unlock this, but feel free to discuss...

    forgot to unlock this, but feel free to discuss the setup more if you want
  40. Actually an innocent child has no place in a...

    Actually an innocent child has no place in a champs game, scratch that.

    Having one wolf role be so much stronger than the other wolves probably not good for champs either, could make the poison factional instead or something. Setup might just be poorly suited to a champs environment.
  41. I'd remove the odd-night vig altogether as a...

    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#55)
    I played ninja and guns twice, it's fun but it has 2 cop setups in the rand so if people don't want that (and I agree/understand) it would need a tweak

    Zack's poisoner is actually a good idea, but not sure how it would translate to a 17er cause the poisoner+vigs make it very quick/fast paced which works in a 21er but in a 17er probably less. Are people against poisons? It's a fairly easy to grasp mechanic imo

    12/3 mountainous is fine
    I'd remove the odd-night vig altogether as a start and go from there, nerf the poisoner a bit, remove the JOAT peek.

    x1 2-Shot Mafia Poisoner
    x1 Mafia Role Cop
    x2 Mafia Goon


    x1 2-Shot Town Jailkeeper
    x1 Town Vigilante | Even Night
    x11 Vanilla Town


    Seems wolf-sided, maybe add an innocent child or town tracker or something and it actually wouldn't be too bad.
  42. Mountainous arson or poison is probably too fancy...

    Mountainous arson or poison is probably too fancy for a champs setup, if any of you were actually being serious. I'd think the setup should have standard nightkill and lynch mechanics as a baseline.

    I remember last year the powers that be didn't want poisoners, or I'd suggest modifying my 21er setup to a 17er.

    d6 is cromulent, maybe a modified version for 17 players and without cops (because I agree those suck for champs).

    What about ninjas and guns? I don't remember the setup exactly but it seemed fine when I played it.

    I think the qualifiers should use the same setup as the wildcard and finale.

    I'll think about it more tonight when I'm on a computer.
  43. Postgame#354

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed $#@! you for that slow roll

    $#@! you for that slow roll
  44. Day 3#342

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed Transcend glgl

    ##Vote Transcend

    glgl
  45. Day 3#340

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed Twisted can't be a wolf unless his partner is...

    Twisted can't be a wolf unless his partner is exactly manasi
  46. Day 3#336

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed I still think it's abu/transcend

    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#330)
    Zack, what are your thoughts?
    I still think it's abu/transcend
  47. Day 3#332

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed abu and transcend call each other wolves all f5...

    abu and transcend call each other wolves all f5 but didn't vote each other

    sounds like classic w/w iyam
  48. Day 3#326

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed why couldn't me or twisted be with manasi fypov

    Quote Originally Posted by Transcend (#320)
    Manasi and abu are confirmed w/w
    why couldn't me or twisted be with manasi fypov
  49. Day 3#323

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed who is ted? twisted?

    who is ted? twisted?
  50. Day 3#315

    Thread: Barbecue Turbo!

    by Zack
    Replies
    375
    Views
    1,331

    Completed me and twisted can't be the team boom

    me and twisted can't be the team

    boom
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Role of the Day
Hot Potato

The Hot Potato is a player who starts off with the "Hot Potato" item in their possession. On Night 1, they have to pass the item to a new player, who will in turn pass it on to someone new on Night 2, etc. Any player carrying this item cannot use any night action on the night that they are passing it off to someone new.