might be back at 5:50
probably was fun
Type: Posts; User: Apogee
might be back at 5:50
probably was fun
if we say that some combination of legacies, d3 ladd-dom, and wrongness is out the window as reasons to sus ladd -- I do see some reasons to believe this, but I get the hesitancies at some level -- I'd say the following are things to consider.
I just .. think he's too confident on some things, not enough on others, and his progressions don't really fully vibe
He just doesn't click as a villager. I can put at lot of words around this, but I don't.
Amrock and SPF both have points that resonate
my real legacy in this regard is make ladd vote first tomorrow probably
and don't blindly trust hally either, probably
zack I'm back to comfortable with IG
and SPF seems villagy enough to me but I could be wrong
I still don't really get what crystalized your read and I'm increasingly likely to go to the grave without it
hi hi hi I'm here for seven minutes or something before another meeting
my biggest regret in this game is lack of time lol
half the people in this game should say this game, the other half should say their last game
it doesn't make sense together
the first was more a musing on my disagreement with the statement
but I don't think vanity is treating the game like it feels hard to her
think I'm back to zack just being village as opposed to tottering on the edge, partially because his posts overnight framed a reasonable exploration, I think
Partially just cause he remains having good posts
Partially because we just lose to zack collectively anyways
and like, I can see a bit of how his style, might, if I'm modeling it correctly, lead to him getting this stuff wrong.
but for those of us who thought amrock was villagy, lime was fine? probably?, and katze was defacto rand the entire game felt hard and it feels classically "oops lolus" wolf behavior
epecesially when the "hard world" is me and ladd? ladd, who's been pushed by villagers all game, and me? who was barely here d2 and kind of townread but mostly ignored until I got tinfoiled d1?
is ladd and I a world that has any business making this a "hard game"
I thought it was an interesting and probably villagy perspective on a trend with ladd, which was his casing never quite got to a holistic picture in my mind that felt fully natural
van earlier you said that "we didn't realize the game was hard until today"
reconcile that with me being a wolf lol
I have no clue how I'd be supposed to make the game hard
But I find it way way easier to write halfway okay wolfreads as a wolf than get to anything approaching my better village reads as a villager
which, I think regardless of correctness, I've made a few of at points
like there are multiple people here who should hardconfirm I'm literally incapable of being a wolf in a game for two days or more without writing some tryhard wallcase
also I got an F in self meta forgery class, which would imply I am incapable of forging my self meta
anyways it's pretty ??? to pretend I didn't just post a bunch of words about SPF and not engage with that in the slightest
like, you're now advocating I'm pocketing SPF to chop ladd, my only other possible partner iyo? Why would I do that and instead not just engage my previous hesitancy on SPF and put together some words on why SPF fits and appeal to zack harder or something and pivot there with ladd as opposed to the two of us doing some on again off again kill the other thing that leads to me in name voteparking on him?
IMO, SPF's description of her own play is correct here. I think, on the whole, she has stayed away from the more wolfy aspects of her meta, where you feel more like SPF wants to hold a boot to the thread and grind resistance into dust. Not a ton to say off the cuff here, because its a broad trend // trying to prove an absence, but I think at some point this kind of clicked subconsciously and informed other parts of my read.
accidentally buried this in a quote in the wall, this should have been following the second to last quote in my wall re: spf
I operate under the second
Okay a bit tired so I'm going to towncase SPF in kind of a "deconstructed wallpost" where instead of grabbing a million examples I grab specific quotes to highlight phenomena and then go into some discussion of them
That being said here we go:
Here specifically, as an example, pretend SPF is a wolf who knows Amrock is a villager, and lets assume she can pick up on him treating her "disingenuously" equally well as alignment. There are several layers I don't know if wolves commonly get too here. The first is the implementation of the "strategic" angle. I think its just harder for wolves to present the perspective of villagers being wolves having strategy. I think then the recognization and comparison to how he treats others is then also somewhat harder, although not impossible, for wolves. Perhaps the clincher is the description of chances internally. I don't know why I find this last paragraph unlikely to come from a wolf fully, probably something about how it strikes just the right balance in seeming to not know Amrock is an alignment and then playing further from that (which I think it would more often if a wolf knew Amrock in this situation was a villager) but like I do buy it lol.
Idk if this made sense at all.
You could probably make a slightly skewed right bell curve with how SPF's post length looks over the course of the day, there's a kind of .. rhythm, or starting the day with medium sized hits on specific things informed by EOD or flips, into broader analysis, into a more rapid flurry EOD. And it just feels ... natural? The kind of thing a villager does subconsciously while wolves don't really think to fake? Why I am singling this out for SPF I can't really say -- it might also apply to other's. But it struck me as villagy on a reread, so I'm going to talk about it here lmao.
Alright that's kind of the pillars of my SPF townread -- some of this is me laying out things that have been churning subconciously // recognizing them more, some of this is new, some of this is things I've known or reevaluation
Happy to talk more I think
feeling a bit better about the game at large and yeah
can that be the spf towncase
I feel like most people were aware of this but it felt worthwhile to state explicitly
the other interesting gamestate thing is that
hally/zack have been pretty synched up most of the game, both agree on that even
and its felt like some combination of spf, vanity, or both have drifted into and out of that lockstep
see: d1 SOD pressure on van, hally/spf/van/zack on me SOD3, some stuff around amrock (maybe less van there?)
while I'm piecing together spf in the background
There's been three explicit dichotomies I've seen advocated in this game
there's a very basic reason for this to be striking, and it suggests one of two things, but I kind of want it to be noted ig.
okay that wasn't the right postnumber but you all know the one
anyways since it came back up I was struck by the fact that my P#268 or whatever post about van being threadspewed like looks better again know that I know there is a wolf in hally/zack/spf (unless, again, van)
that's a good $%#! way of putting one of my issues with ladd's reads.
I missed a lot of d2 but amrock and lime were both like. slightly higher up my POE so I guess I felt harder earlier
then again finding anyone for the bottom of my POE is difficult so maybe I'm just strugglebussing
I'm working on ISOing spf now fwiw
is it villagy or wolfy nonsense
like, I quoted all the legacies of the villagers, 4/6 called spf villager, 1/6 called SPF most villagy in POE, 1/6 had no real spf opinion (note I'm counting both kat and psycho)
and I just like, skimmed things
thats how all reads form anyways ime I can't make reads by like, scanning for lists of tells
I could go and find things now that I think make SPF villagy because I know they exist but I can't point to the reasons I found spf villagy last night because they weren't like specifically enumerated
if I've dragged out a retrospective as opposed to a current view, and you're more interested in current apogee towncasing spf, then I apologize for misunderstanding and will put that on the docket, but I've thought you're more interested in the past
Ladd/hally like, has filled my head a fair bit I admit, but if I wrong on you, it could be you, it could maybe be zack although I agree a bit on the nose, yes
maybe I just read the first paragraph differently and we're closer than I thought or something idk
Like, I am not so incompetent a wolf that I can't go read SPF's d2 posts over again and write some goodish words about my v read on her and pretend that those were precisely what I read overnight that changed my mind
But that's not what happened so
The most serious concise answer I can give is I sponged up the thread overnight and you and spf are the two people in the game that don't really fit wolf shaped holes
I've talked about different reads over the course of the day, and will continue to
My point in this quote was that approach feels completely orthogonal to what I'd expect at this point and I'm not sure why you're turning back a comment about me not understanding your approach onto me?
zack I'll walk back my obtuseness comments that was probably somewhat uncalled for
but like. you rehashed the SOD nk thing not long ago without really engaging at all abict with the post that I put my entire process through
now you're sitting around signalboosting ladd and v-reads on ladd and taking potshots at me and to an extent spf
and like ?!?!