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  1. I won't be very present tonight, but I'll comment...

    I won't be very present tonight, but I'll comment on a few things that hopefully gives some clarity.

    Regarding 1) I'm not sure how to word this properly, but the idea with giving one "hit whatever the reason" has several factors behind it. Hopefully it can eventually be regarded like other online/video games, where, say, in Dota (because I know it the best) if you DC from a game, you get an auto x minute ban. This gets longer and longer with each time. You can't help it, but it does affect 9 other people, and as standard, DC/ragequit = short ban.

    It's not meant to be a personal punishment. Just a standardized (ish) way of dealing with it.

    Some reasons include

    - Subjectivity: What constitutes a family/real life emergency? Is anxiety/depression a real life emergency? The obvious cases are easy to "judge", from experience: a big portion is not easy to decide on.

    - Integrity: Honestly, as moderators/hosts, we don't really have the right to ask people what their "emergencies" are. People should have the right to not disclose what their issue is without being punished for it. The old system was under these pretenses - we tried to take everything into consideration and have a balanced decision afterwards.

    - Workload: We do have several mods that have worked with it. It's still... A lot of work, a lot that has to be processed. Talking to the player, talking to the host, reading the ISO, and still have an eye on sign-ups, other ongoing games, and trying to do all this within reasonable time. We've made mistakes, we've reverted some decisions, we've gotten more info about reasons (that have kind of been "forced out of people") and even though we're hiring new flake moderator/s, and have automated a lot, it's still a ton of information that is tough to process.

    - Even though we don't assume the worst, it can be put into system. It's not something we want to try and evaluate if it's reasonable or not. Again, we want to minimize the amount of subjectivity involved in this.


    I wrote a bit more about the reasoning behind in the OP of the announcement thread.



    When it comes to 2), we will always err on the side of leniency. We don't expect to use this much, but needs to be clarified so subbing isn't replaced by extremely blatantly no-no cases like "I don't want to play this game so I'll just post 1-2-3-4-5 to get min req and leave". One or two days of not fully meeting post requirements won't really be moderated. Things like being an outed wolf/mod mistakes/etc. won't be moderated. I named a few other situations in the other thread, but a lot of other ones are probably included in this. Again, we won't be actively looking for people to "punish", and if it's unclear cases, we won't be actioning it.

    It's not supposed to be regarded as a punishment, we want games to run, and to be as fair as possible to as many as possible - this included hosts and other players in the game, but also the players themselves. It's not an easy balance, and these changes aren't set in stone. We'll be evaluating it continuously and change things if needed.
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    If it's modbot things, someone accidentally...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa. (#13)
    Just to clarify: A sub is monitored with a warning then a ban if it's entirely not the player's fault like #4 (IE HolyFlare In JC's invitational due to Modbot thing, lol in the Warhammer mash who accidentally got added to dvc, etc)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#8)
    I think game host's discretion should be on the table for sub-min posting that does not lead to a replacement. I'm mainly thinking of no-brainer situations, I just don't want to see one of them lead to an infraction. A few examples:

    Moth was modpeeked benign survivor in the last mash. While he remained committed to that game, it did create a situation where achieving wincon no longer required participating.

    I was randed into a game I didn't sign up for last year and I think I missed D1 entirely, but I showed up and played once they got ahold of me.

    A player subs in with the understanding that they cannot participate that day but will be fully active in the next cycle and they act accordingly.

    A player signs up with the explicit understanding that in the off chance they survive to a certain day they will have no internet access for 24 hours and the host allows them to join.

    That sort of thing.
    Hope it was made clearer earlier in this post, but of course, the no-brainer situations (i.e. peeked/outed/lolcatting/whatever) won't be moderated, otherwise the system would be fully moderated/mod-bot controlled.
    If it's modbot things, someone accidentally getting spoiled/game integrity stuff like that that can't be helped, no that won't lead to a warning. Nor will the things I mentioned in the quoted post.

    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#12)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa. (#7)
    I refuse to post this on my katze avatar account
    um hello flake mods id like to report a flaker??

    honestly the thing that stuck out to me in the post was addressing toxicity midgame vs postgame and i think that’s good change

    idrc about flake moderation changes because it looks effectively the same as before, altho i wasnt rly aware the site had a flaking problem so bad it needed to be addressed via this
    Mainly, a lot of subjectivity has been peeled off, and maybe imo most importantly, we have the rules written out somewhere.
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    Also just to clarify, this thread isn't meant to...

    Also just to clarify, this thread isn't meant to be a discussion thread, it'd be appreciated if that can be kept to a separate feedback thread, or the old feedback thread where all this have been discussed in length. Clarifications/unclear stuff are fine in here though.
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    That's part of why we didn't implement the...

    Quote Originally Posted by neopest (#3)
    so there is absolutely no leniency irt irl emergencies?
    That's part of why we didn't implement the initial suggestions of "sub no matter the reason = 1 month ban". Family emergencies happen, sometimes repeatedly, but from another pov, it's still a sub. Up until today we've had that leniency, but there's a lot of subjectivity going into that, which makes it very hard to regulate.

    From the pov that a sub = gameruining, the system exists to make sure that as many games as possible are "sub-free". There isn't a perfect system to balance those two. Having the two-hit system is more of a "this is just how it works" thing, a streamlined system, regardless of reason, which peels of the factor where moderators have to decide and grade different kinds of issues. We've written about part of the reasoning in the OP, and the mental health points apply to family emergencies as well, although not fully.

    Maybe good to add, the leniency part comes in when ban length is decided - in those cases, it'll most likely be a shorter ban.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4)
    I assume that falls under 4. Players subbing out because of moderation actions/host errors/reasons that are not the player's fault.

    (Though it's a bit unclear what the moderation policy is on this I assumed the rules were for 1-3)

    Is this monitored if the game host doesn't mind? For example I don't mind if players want to sub out of my games since I usually find it's pretty easy to find replacements, at least day 1/2
    Yes, all subs are monitored, but we do look into each case still.

    Quote Originally Posted by NANOOKTHECONQUEROR (#5)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#2)
    min-posting without actually participating
    I would say there's not much point in having a minimum post amount then, if its going to be judged subjectively anyways?
    Again, the "subjectivity" is really hard to fully peel off. This is mainly meant for blatant cases, like. "1". "2". "3". etc, to reach post-min, but the spectrum does exists, and we'll usually communicate with hosts/players if that's the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#8)
    I think game host's discretion should be on the table for sub-min posting that does not lead to a replacement. I'm mainly thinking of no-brainer situations, I just don't want to see one of them lead to an infraction. A few examples:

    Moth was modpeeked benign survivor in the last mash. While he remained committed to that game, it did create a situation where achieving wincon no longer required participating.

    I was randed into a game I didn't sign up for last year and I think I missed D1 entirely, but I showed up and played once they got ahold of me.

    A player subs in with the understanding that they cannot participate that day but will be fully active in the next cycle and they act accordingly.

    A player signs up with the explicit understanding that in the off chance they survive to a certain day they will have no internet access for 24 hours and the host allows them to join.

    That sort of thing.
    Hope it was made clearer earlier in this post, but of course, the no-brainer situations (i.e. peeked/outed/lolcatting/whatever) won't be moderated, otherwise the system would be fully moderated/mod-bot controlled.
  5. #12

    Thread: Forum Rules

    by roro__b
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    Sticky: New Flake Moderation Process First sub:...

    New Flake Moderation Process

    • First sub: Flake moderators will contact the player, regardless of the reason for subbing out, and warn them that one more sub will probably result in a sign-up ban. If the reason provided is considered RWSTFO or something unacceptable like that, we will go straight to a sign-up ban, or in rare cases, a full site ban.

    • Second sub: This will usually result in a sign-up ban. Exceptions include if the second sub happens a long time after the player’s first sub (years -ish) or if the player has otherwise shown high/consistent activity in games.

    • Subout after a previous ban: This will usually lead to a new sign-up ban instantly. In most cases, this ban will be a longer one.

    • Repeated instances afterwards may lead to a very long, or permanent sign-up ban.

    • If a player that subs out or flakes is playing in more than one game, we will instantly temporarily ban the player from multi-tabling, and on top of that warn the player that repeated subouts will lead to a full signup ban.

    • If a player in the game is not meeting post requirements or min-posting without actually participating this will be treated as a sub since it's at least equally game-ruining.


    Ban lengths usually range from 1 month - 3 months - 6 months - 1 year - permanent. The standard progression is usually 1 month -> 3 months -> 1 year.


    For more information, see the linked thread.
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    Changes to Flake Moderation New Flake...

    Changes to Flake Moderation


    New Flake Moderation Process

    We will be changing the flake moderation process to be much more strict and consistent than it has been up to this point.


    • First sub: Flake moderators will contact the player, regardless of the reason for subbing out, and warn them that one more sub will probably result in a sign-up ban. If the reason provided is considered RWSTFO or something unacceptable like that, we will go straight to a sign-up ban, or in rare cases, a full site ban.

    • Second sub: This will usually result in a sign-up ban. Exceptions include if the second sub happens a long time after the player’s first sub (years -ish) or if the player has otherwise shown high/consistent activity in games.

    • Subout after a previous ban: This will usually lead to a new sign-up ban instantly. In most cases, this ban will be a longer one.

    • Repeated instances afterwards may lead to a very long, or permanent sign-up ban.

    • If a player that subs out or flakes is playing in more than one game, we will instantly temporarily ban the player from multi-tabling, and on top of that warn the player that repeated subouts will lead to a full signup ban.

    Ban lengths usually range from 1 month - 3 months - 6 months - 1 year - permanent. The standard progression is usually 1 month -> 3 months -> 1 year.


    Dealing with substitutions before they happen:

    • We have introduced a tool for hosts to use in sign-up threads. All players who /in will receive a message some time before the game to confirm their participation and will have to confirm before a certain deadline. Both the message timing and the confirmation deadline are set by the host(s).

      This is the message that will be sent out:

      Quote Originally Posted by Your Host
      Checking in to confirm your interest in playing Signup queue test, which starts on May 26th, 2022 at 3:21 PM EDT.

      Confirming represents a binding commitment to play the game to its conclusion. Failing to meet the activity requirements after the game starts will lead to a warning or more, no matter your reasons. Please review the details and make sure you will still be able to meet the activity requirements and play without subbing out before confirming.

      Click the button below if you are still interested in playing.

    • We strongly recommend that hosts get some kind of contact info for all players during the sign-up period, preferably a Discord handle, so that they can communicate with all players to confirm and prod them at any point pre-game or during the game if needed.

    • We encourage hosts to clearly define what activity level you expect from players in the OP of the sign-up thread and let players know what volume of posts they can expect when playing your game. For bigger games especially, we strongly recommend that hosts confirm with the players that they've understood the activity requirements and will do their best to follow them.

    • Regarding toxicity related subouts, the moderator team is planning to become more proactive when it comes to dealing with toxicity while the games are ongoing, as opposed to waiting until after the game is over. What we need from you as host, as a player, or even as a spectator, to get this done is to make sure that toxic posts or situations are reported, even if you think someone else has already reported it so that we can make sure to catch these cases.

      Another way to address toxicity related sub outs if a host wants to is designating a co-host who can be there for players that might want to vent, that feel like the thread environment is bad/toxic, are frustrated or considering subbing out for one reason or another, etc. Maybe most importantly, this co-host can notify the site moderators if there’s something pressing that needs to be dealt with.

    • If a player in the game is not meeting post requirements or min-posting without actually participating this will be treated as a sub since it's at least equally game-ruining. This should be reported/brought to moderators' attention so that it can be looked into.


    Final Words

    These changes are our first step in trying to further decrease the number of subs and flaking in games. We do plan to reevaluate the changes and if they're unsatisfactory we will be adjusting them further.
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    New Flake Moderation Policy

    Flake Moderation Process Overhaul

    Recent discussions about substitutions and flake moderation have led to extensive discussions in the moderation team to try and rework the system for the better. This first post will be wordy, for "full disclosure" reasons, and some insight into how we have been reasoning. The second post will focus on the changes we are making. We've done our best to take what's been written in the feedback thread into consideration when reworking the policy.


    Some general thoughts brought forward in the moderator team were along the lines of the following:

    • Basic sub considerations - We agree that the substitutions are a significant problem, as is flaking. That said, trying to reduce and discourage subouts could easily lead to a situation where it gets replaced by flaking, i.e. players making sure to min-post without truly participating in the game. Would replacing such a player or leaving them in the game doing the bare minimum, with no content, be better for the game's playability? Having clearly defined guidelines for players about expected activity is doable, but judging what activity or content level is "enough" is not as simple.
    • First steps in flake moderation - We do not believe we should moderate subs/flakes by going straight to a sign-up ban. The majority of the flake moderating we have done to date has seen positive results for curbing recurring subs/flakes so we want to stick with it for now. We may reassess this stance at a later time if we feel things need to be tightened up further.
    • Mental health in flake moderation - Participating in a game like Mafia can be very mentally straining for all of us and we acknowledge that strain may lead to a player needing to sub out. While there's no "invalid" level of mental health issues that would necessitate someone subbing out but we do think players who have subbed out of a game because of mental health reasons have a responsibility to make sure they’ll be able to play through their next game. This is both for that player's sake and also to be fair to the hosts and the rest of the players in the game. Therefore, we will treat sub-outs and flaking for mental health reasons the same as subbing/flaking for other reasons in the flake moderating process.



    The "old" flake moderating process was along the lines of the following, in short:

    We talk to the player about subbing out, why it's bad, etc. Repeated subbing or flaking leads to a (final) warning. When it comes to multi-tabling, we might often move straight to a multi-tabling ban.

    If that doesn’t work, the next step is a sign ban. We usually do 1-3 months as a first ban depending on how their log looks, how close in time the sub outs/flake instances are, and how "bad" the subout situation looks.

    If someone comes back from a ban and flakes or subs out again, we either warn the player again along the lines of "this is serious, you're not going to be allowed to play if this continues" or we go straight to another ban. This is also situation dependent.


    Regarding the old flake moderation policy:

    • From what we've seen, the old system has been effective in addressing repeated subs. Most players respond well to being spoken to.
    • Sometimes our moderation (especially with signup bans) has taken a long time. Usually this is either because the game is still ongoing with potential OGI concerns, or because it involves another moderation issue.
    • At some points after the system was implemented, we've fallen behind because of some flake moderators not being around for a period of time. More recently, the main 2-3 flake moderators have put in a great deal of effort in improving our system used for flake moderation. Through the experience gained over the past few months, we've been able to smooth out the process and increase our speed and efficiency in addressing flake moderation on a weekly basis.
    • The old system is not really good at preventing substitutions from happening in the first place. We need to fix that.


    Going forward

    We have identified some of the main reasons for subbing out and will be trying to address them in different ways before they happen. There are four main groups of people who sub out:

    1. Players new to the site that flake out of games and/or don't check the site frequently enough to participate at the level of what's required.
    2. Regulars that play frequently, and flake/sub out of a game once in a while. This can be for all kinds of reasons, including toxicity, mental health reasons, being too busy to play, family emergencies, etc.
    3. The serial flakers that the current flake moderation system exists to catch.
    4. Players subbing out because of moderation actions/host errors/reasons that are not the player's fault.



    See the next post for how we’re reworking the system to prevent subs.
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    Sticky: it looks kinda broken still :wowee: (not a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#1175)
    Has been fixed!!
    it looks kinda broken still

    (not a confirm)
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    153

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    Ampharos

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    did i make u active turbo mode or smth

    did i make u active turbo mode or smth
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    4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezradekezra (#18389)
    roro_b

    3
    4
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    1

    Quote Originally Posted by c4e5g3d5 (#18386)
    ##Vote roro__b

    2
    1
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    no

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    one

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    1

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    Music i forced myself to listen through 3 of those...

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas (#217)
    Album Exchange 7 - The Return

    Just a few of us this week, but feels good to be back. Certainly gonna make it easy on nutella to listen to all the subs. Sorry dobby in advance.

    @LordQuas William Shatner - Shatner Claus
    This is art.


    and
    @roro__b Hiatus - Distancer
    electronic/instrumental with ethnic/oriental influences




    @shubaka17 Amazing Devil - The Horror And The Wild
    A very dramatic folk album put out by Joey Batey and Madeleine Hyland, Broadway veterans from the UK (and Batey is the bard on The Witcher on Netflix). The two of them are excellent vocalists and highlight themselves in different tracks across the album, but the best best vocals and songwriting are in Farewell Wanderlust. Great lyricism (with obvious Broadway influence) and


    and
    @Visorslash Aphex Twin - Syro
    ecks dee




    @nutella The Deer Hunter - Antimai
    Baroque / indie prog / art rock / known for elaborate story concept albums / insert some other pretentious $%#! $%#! here? TDH are just fun but might not be everyone's thing. For catfit, this is their first full album since the completion of their 5-act concept album series in 2016, and marks the beginning of a new ambitious series. Instrumentation and composition is creative and engaging, I don't know that much about the story/themes but it's apparently some kind of sci-fi dystopia.


    and
    @Bloobird Mount Eerie - A Crow Looked At Me
    Minimalist folk songs about your wife dying of cancer, this is not an album for happy boys. It is very good though. As creating it was almost a form of therapy after his wife died I feel it fits the theme.


    You have until the end of the month to listen to your album and get back to the other person.
    i forced myself to listen through 3 of those songs. i hate xmas music. this was the worst kind. pa ra pa pam pam. im not touching that again, thanks.
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    Walrus Scores after 18 categories, END OF PART II ...

    Scores after 18 categories,
    END OF PART II

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    Walrus https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/641331542...


    18. Key West, Florida


    33. Shad

    David Ball - State song of Florida
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uweoegT29Cs

    Uh. I'm doing my best to take this seriously. It's alright I guess.

    Score: 5,5/10


    32. Frog

    Linkin Park & Jay-Z - Dirt Off Your Shoulder/Lying From You
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_4VOhahkkk

    This is kinda screamy/noisy and uh I don't enjoy the performance although it's stuff I should like in theory tbh.

    Score: 6,2/10


    31. Syn

    Tube and Berger ftg. Chrissie Hynde - Straight Ahead
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Nt0iAu3qw

    This isn't really my cup of tea tbh, sowwy.

    Score: 6,4/10


    29. KnightsOfCydonia

    DJ Cummerbund - Smell Up Your Spice Party
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1mIsHrNvDM

    As usual, this is weird as $%#!. I think this is one of the ones I've enjoyed more, except for the LMFAO part of it all...

    Score: 6,9/10


    30. Arete

    Maps - Fun Home OST
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiLjzZAWNwc

    Hmm, it's charming but nothing I feel like "yeah this is really good tbh".

    Score: 7,0/10


    28. Johanna

    Janelle Monáe - I Like That
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uovntV3ZMDc

    This is kinda generic RnB but like, not the (for me) catchy type tbh, it's just kinda boring, sorry.

    Score: 7,1/10


    27. Kane #1

    Bubba Sparxxx - Ugly
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trd49Da0gf0

    I thought this was really cool and genius like 20 years ago, it's still alright tbh, maybe.

    Score: 7,2/10


    26. Cuthalion

    Birdtalker - Clear Water
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC-6HXLfu0Y

    I've been introduced to birdtalker by cuth before, (I LOVE better in the morning) but this isn't at all on par with that. Maybe if the chorus was more exciting I'd enjoy it but now it just feels a bit too drawn out and kinda boring, idk weh.

    Score: 7,4/10


    25. Ibuki Mioda

    Azure Blue World (Emerald Coast) - Sonic Adventure [OST]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SBKj5ofGVw

    Pretty catchy, idk what else to write tbh.

    Score: 7,8/10


    24. Soah

    OMNIMAR - Forever
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcszeyKjFU

    Weh, my first instinct is to list all the things I dislike about this. It's way too long. The lyrics are very cringe and over the top dramatic, and some parts just sounds like they had the instrumentals and went "hey if you want to, just throw on a melody and write some whatever lyrics and we'll include it in the song, don't put much effort in it". Most of the effort went into the music video I think. The dramatic stuff takes away a lot from it. I haven't roasted a song this much ever, but it's probably because it could've been really really good, just peel off the dumb stuff and I'd love it. I tried listening to it without paying attention to the singing and the last 2 minutes are pretty damn awesome. Idk how to score this. I like what it should've been.

    Score: 7,85/10


    23. Nutella

    Animal Collective - FloriDada
    https://youtu.be/cuoIvNFUY7I

    Pretty sure I've seen memes from this video, it's very cursed. The song, mainly the verses, are fun but I can't really connect with the chorus, it kinda ruins it for me.

    Score: 7,95/10


    22. Wiggium

    Samuel T Herring - Addicted Youth
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VciNLHeWHUw

    I think I grabbed the right link. Unlisted one submitted smh. I am struggling to come up with words for this one. I think it tries to be poetic but I'm not fully getting it.. Idk words lol.

    Score: 8,0/10


    21. Ampharos

    WONGS CAFE /// Disco De Lune
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJe6o3E4iCk

    Cory Wong is an Ampharos classic tbh. And my brother's too tbh, he plays a lot of Cory Wong tbh, cuz he loves anything guitar. This is fun ofc, but not a genre I super-enjoy unless it's something out of the ordinary tbh.

    Score: 8,05/10


    20. Tangrowth + Ploonet

    Sora - Traces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3hO1-x43Qc

    This is a nice mix of lofi hiphop with bleeps and bloops. It's nothing that stands out really, and nothing I want to listen to on repeat, but as a one time thing, it's cool.

    Score: 8,1/10


    19. ignoramus

    Casino Calavera - Grim Fandango OST
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXCRaI8U-PA

    This is a lot of fun, love the bassline etc, but horns have never really been something I love tbh. It's cool though.

    Score: 8,15/10


    18. Schiavetto

    Lana Del Rey - Florida Kilos
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4p3-IpaIzE

    I had a Lana Del Rey phase when she broke through, and then I skimmed through another of her albums at some point (might've been this one) and found it mediocre, and then kinda forgot about her stuff. Adam subbed a song (or two?) from one of her more recent albums iirc (looked it up, Blue Banisters was the song name) and it was good tbh. This one is kinda, uh, not-special really. Got some good elements and the classic Lana Del Rey vibe, but it's kinda forgettable tbh.

    Score: 8,3/10


    17. PunchyTheCat

    Real Estate - Younger than yesterday
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5cM_43GXNU

    Hm. This is nice vibes and defintely a catfit but it's not super exciting tbh.

    Score: 8,4/10


    16. vanity.

    Silver Scooter - The Long Way
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVK8AjZgVho

    hmmmm. There are elements that I love about this, the whole vibe is great. The singing is not really my thing in big parts of the song, and the chorus is kinda not my thing, and in this type of song the chorus kinda needs to do... something for me to really enjoy it.

    Score. 8,5/10


    15. Kane #2

    Eagles of Death Metal - English Girl
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxLm6sMg8OU

    Nice color profile on the album cover tbh. The sound they've got going is cool, but can't really say I find this song exciting. Weh.

    Score: 8,6/10


    14. Visorslash

    Tommy Guerrero - the endless road
    https://youtu.be/yNfeUUVjyCA

    The sound in this song is really nice, but uh. I usually don't mind repetitive at all, it's usually even something I enjoy in most cases. Here I do feel like it gets kind of boring though, or. Not boring, I like it, but these 4min52s feel more like 4h52min tbh.... which makes it really hard to place tbh.

    Score: 8,65/10


    13. Dunia

    Michael Blume - Manufactured Love
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8f-x054Q9s

    I'm liking this chorus a lot, as opposed to many other subs this category. Unfortunately the rest is kinda.. boring/not great? Weh. The ending is pretty cool though and I wish it would've been more of that tbqh.

    Score: 8,75/10


    12. chingles2404

    Home All Summer (feat. Marc Anthony) - In The Heights Motion Picture Soundtrack
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoJkZ1aOdAk

    Ngl it's pretty good commercial pop, catchy and stuff, don't mind a bit of this in walri tbh, it stands out for sure and I just like it lol.

    Score: 8,95/10


    11. Owner Of A Lonely Heart 2

    Tech N9ne - Am I A Psycho? (Feat. B.o.B and Hopsin)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1zuIYNoFw

    I used to like this, I unironically still do. It's intriguing and catchy, sorry walrus gang I'm a basic $%#! :P

    Score: 9,0/10


    10. Arapocalypse

    Sweet Trip - Chapters
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5SUEjdjej4


    Sweet Trip kek. I'm pretty sure this exact song has been subbed before (checks - not to me, it was subbed to Shad). I.. Like most parts of it a lot, I mean, the instrumentals and the vibes are great ofc, but the singing and stuff kinda ruin it for me, it'd be good-er without it. Also I'm pretending the last couple of minutes don't exist. I don't like em.

    Score: 9,1/10


    9. shubaka17

    Slime Girls - Bonfires
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqPgJBvZN6E

    This is really cute. Not something I'd think I'd enjoy (teehee double I'd) but it kinda works and I really do like it.

    Score: 9,2/10


    8. MyNameIsNothing 3

    Ada Lea - damn
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHR4ly4THdI

    I like the beginning a lot more than what happens in the second half, but I found myself playing this a few times when I wasn't just judging walrus songs and I think that amounts to something tbh.

    Score: 9,3/10


    7. Bloobird

    Islands - Jogging Gorgeous Summer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_rUoB1d8hQ

    There's a lot going on here but all in all, after processing, yes I like it. Kinda feelgood stuff.

    Score: 9,4/10


    6. OTTER

    The Pogues - DIRTY OLD TOWN
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupVjQBwASo

    The Pogues POG. This is great tbh, feels good to listen to and even better on next listen. Very Kkona but awesome still.

    Score: 9,5/10


    5. ladd

    The Highwaymen - Silver Stallion


    BASED sub. It's actually great lol. Haters go ahead and hate.

    Score: 9,55/10


    4. MyNameIsNothing 2

    Lucio Battisti - Abbracciala abbracciali abbracciati


    (not so) fun fact: MNIN changed his sub but I forgot about it until I remembered some people had changed subs and I didn't enter them into the doc. So I'm going to include that writeup and link because I wrote it.

    aaaaaanyways. The ACTUAL sub, first reaction is "this is really odd".. Odd in a good way I think. Some might call it unique. It's kinda unique yeah. But uh, the more I listen to it, the more I appreciate what a smoooth cool nice song it is. And there's something about that last minute of the song, where there's clearer/more focused singing, that I really love tbh. Not sure what or why. It's just great.

    ROSA NEON - Ombrim
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i14xgbxCMwM

    This is different from what's usually subbed to walri tbh, but the vibe is great and summery. Kinda good tbh, it also grew on me a lot.

    Score: 9,3/10


    Score 9,6/10


    3. staypositivefriend

    Pinegrove - The Metronome


    I mean, from the beginning you know this is going to go hard/slap, it's building up for very hype stuff tbh. The delivery in the verse is not 100% what I'd want it to be, but I still find myself playing this over and over again, the second half with the falsetto stuff thingies are addictive... it's great.

    Score: 9,8/10 + 0,3 = 10,1


    2. Owner Of A Lonely Heart

    Ane Brun - Do You Remember


    I actually like a lot of Ane Brun stuff a lot. This is a bit higher tempo than what I've heard from her. Her voice is an acquired taste I think, but I'm already there tbh. It's a really cool concept with what she's doing here and I like it more and more with every listen tbh.

    Score: 9,85/10 + 0,6 = 10,45


    1. MyNameIsNothing 1

    Kasper Marott - Drømmen om Ø (Forever mix '19) Kulør 002


    So I said about another sub that it was repetitive in a bad way. This one is 14 minutes and it's repetitive but I love every second of it. I played it a few times in a row first time I listened to it. Why? I have no idea, I just really enjoy it, deal with it :P

    Score: 9,9/10 + 1,0 = 10,9
  20. #175

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    fwiw this is a super good post that everyone...

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#166)
    Quote Originally Posted by remember (#160)
    through reading your game i have aspired to pull mine up to a fraction of yours!

    who would you say taught you how to play the most, if only indirectly through observation? what did you learn from them? what are your top 5 tips for towning? what is your reading process?
    I appreciate the nice words, thank you. (You're plenty good at ww yourself lol).

    Oh it has to be Askthepizzaguy for sure. He was the first guy to reach out to me in my second game and get me to really engage with the game.

    I spent years following him into random games and sites afterwards lol. I learnt a lot about how to engage players and get them to talk about things so they have a greater chance of being read accurately. Also learnt a lot about the mindset of wolfing and how to approach wolfgames as an acting performance. It's possibly where I get my chaotic streak from lol. I learnt a lot just from how he phrashed his posts and made his pushes.

    Top 5 tips:
    Be willing to change your mind/accept you may be wrong/admit you may be wrong - being a $%#!ty communicator is a big reason why villages lose otherwise very winnable games. If you go hardcore on every read you have and expect the thread to always bend to your will, you damage thread cohesion and splinter the village, sometimes to an unrecoverable degree. You should generally treat all the players itg with respect too, because if people get along with you, they are more likely to listen to you and work with you.

    Read D1 - the most important day for game solving, thread narratives haven't been established yet, wolves haven't yet had a chance to get entrenched, often the most clearing and damning interactions are found on D1, if you're struggling for answers it can be very helpful to go back to D1, often the best source of info later in the game too. It's not always fantastic ofc, but it is a good starting place for sure.

    Vote early and often - This is kind of a nebulous thing, but IMPO, putting pressure on slots by pushing them and voting them is much more useful than waiting for eod to vote, or waiting until you have a confident read. The longer you wait, the more other players can control the narratives, and the less pressure wolves will feel under, making their posting better. It doesn't really matter if you're wrong, what matters is that you are actively pushing the game state forward and forcing wolves to keep up, passive gamestates tend to favour wolves, especially those who are good at manipulation. Plus, if slots have pressure on them, they can often react in more easily readable ways. Even if you are not voting slots, do try to have some active pushes going.

    Understand the wolf paths to victory - this is more for hunting deeper wolves, but when someone does an action that seems blatantly anti-wolf or protown, sometimes it is useful to understand why someone might do something like that, whether it makes sense for their position/game state/personality and whether it might be a move a wolf might do because it is their path to survival/winning the game. I'll give an example here, in the Irish Peoples Anonymous game, orangeandblack5 was a mafia member in the poe who was close to dying. IIRC he made some comment about solving him being best for the game and self voted at eod. It went to a tie and he survived. Obv that looks very anti wolf, but as a wolf he had to do something like that to pull out a win. Ended up being caught the next day anyway, but it is important to really look into why something happened.

    Engage with people - people tend to reveal things by accident if you get them into casual conversations about their reads or the game. mafia isn't played in a vacuum, so spending some time engaging with other players and getting them to talk about their read on player x, or situation y, or wagon z, etc, can be very helpful. You can also start small and lead up to a bigger point - this is especially helpful if you have a case or a wall ready to post, you seed the thread and the playerbase to be prepared to read and critically view your post, by engaging them in a conversation, they are less likely to ignore what you have to say.

    Often I find that kind of buildup is super helpful into getting someone onside.

    Idk if these are necessarily my top 5, ut i think they are 5 good tips.
    fwiw this is a super good post that everyone should read because it genuinely pinpoints the most essential things about how to play this game
  21. Replies
    229
    Views
    5,769

    Music how will the pairings be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas (#213)
    Album Exchange 7 - The Return

    SORRY FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE! Walrus + irl interferes, wcyd. But we're back with the 7th Album Exchange, I'm moving this to a monthly thing because I think it gives more people the chance to participate (cough cough and aligns better with my admittedly pretty busy schedule currently).

    The theme for this month is a Returning Album, so something that's either a return for an artist after a long time gap or a return to form after some uh, less than quality work. Or any other way you can justify the theme of a return!



    I'd like a submission to come in by this Sunday, the 7th ideally sooner rather than later because at some point during that day I'll mix up and assign partners.

    While I'm at it, I think I'll try to put up the signups for the next month towards the end of August and conclude them by September and have that be the regular schedule so it lines up on a monthly schedule a little better.

    Form for this month
    how will the pairings be done?
  22. #98

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    have you played limbo? why are cults underused...

    have you played limbo?

    why are cults underused on mu

    game is closing in on eod, villager up for yeet but very angy and upset. whats the optimal way of playing for the villager here - leaving thread and accpeting it/staying in thread and bein upset (clearly person doesnt have a switch to turn off being upset) or smth else? What would you have preferred to see as a host

    is it even possible to ski in australia, pls elaborate
  23. #62

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    i said kats not cats

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#58)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#56)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#54)
    why is sunbae the best
    Because he plays the game in the right spirit, he's got a great attitude, he is fun to play with, and he's also good at both alignments, so it is always enjoyable to match up with or against him.
    good answer


    do you have a pet and why are dogs better than kats


    do you prefer an AMA with too many questions or AMA with too few questions

    when will you answer my custard questions and stuff
    Dogs are not better than cats, cats goat.

    I do not have a pet but I do have access to one.

    I would prefer an AMA with too many questions, because what is the point of wanting too few. If I wasn't willing to answer questions I would not have done one in the first place.

    I will answer those plus others later today probably or maybe tomorrow depending on timing.
    i said kats not cats
  24. #58

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    good answer do you have a pet and why are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#56)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#54)
    why is sunbae the best
    Because he plays the game in the right spirit, he's got a great attitude, he is fun to play with, and he's also good at both alignments, so it is always enjoyable to match up with or against him.
    good answer


    do you have a pet and why are dogs better than kats


    do you prefer an AMA with too many questions or AMA with too few questions

    when will you answer my custard questions and stuff
  25. #54

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    why is sunbae the best where did the name...

    why is sunbae the best

    where did the name visorslash come from
  26. #29

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    What do you eat for breakfast Do you put mayo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#28)
    ideal sandwich
    What do you eat for breakfast

    Do you put mayo or butter on sandwiches? Why would anyone like mayo
  27. #27

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    Do you think wallposts add more to games than not...

    Do you think wallposts add more to games than not (ie nobody reads em and they clog up the thread or smth like that)

    How would you rate this "custard" thingie i just made for a cake


    does the fact that its a storebought powder thingie mixed with milk, full of lumps of powder upset you


    Does it evwr snow where you live

    Have you seen snow

    Have you experienced sandstorms

    Why is australia interesting

    Do you wear black T-shirts with rock/metal band names on them
  28. #26

    Thread: Visor, AMA

    by roro__b
    Replies
    207
    Views
    2,272

    Is there a question(s) you hope/d to be asked in...

    Is there a question(s) you hope/d to be asked in this AMA?

    If answer is no to the above, come up with one and answer it ty

    Can you make a thread and post daily pics of food that you have saved?

    What is an opinion you have on how one successfuly woofs in a small/medium game? In mashes?

    What is the most important assett for an individual in a towngame to have?

    Name 3 themes for a mafia game that would make you super excited to play

    Do you have long hair and a long beard

    Is farting fun

    Wine or beer

    Would you eat custard on a steak

    Wpuld you eat custard with chili and lots of sea salt in it

    Big venomous snake in your house/apartmnet, do you lesve it/throw it out yourself/call someone/burn your house down/cry?

    Same as above but a kangaroo

    Are the views of australia being full of spiders/snakes/kangaroos/other huge animals that shouldnt exist, that you encounter in your everyday life a meme or actually tru?

    Do you eat your veggies

    Powderfinger or aphex twin

    Why doesnt my scoring system in walri make sense to you

    Do you say walri or walruses

    Say walri out loud, do you think it sounds dumb
  29. #108

    Thread: i'm zack, ama

    by roro__b
    Replies
    168
    Views
    1,915

    why is sunbae the best?

    why is sunbae the best?
  30. Replies
    63
    Views
    2,180

    MS Paint I can describe instead if needed

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleDynamite (#48)
    Still need some describers.

    And I can still create additional spots if someone wants to paint.
    I can describe instead if needed
  31. #105

    Thread: i'm zack, ama

    by roro__b
    Replies
    168
    Views
    1,915

    Do you like farts

    Do you like farts
  32. Replies
    416
    Views
    5,945

    If Congress of Vienna wasn't the theme you chose...

    If Congress of Vienna wasn't the theme you chose for the lost bet/game I hosted, what was plan/alternative B be?

    If said game takes place, is it 300 dollarinos for you to play or has the rate changed? Or would it count as a replacement for CoV on your part?
  33. Replies
    18,595
    Views
    249,778

    1

  34. Replies
    1,190
    Views
    53,783

    Sticky: im always disappointed when i dont rand wolf in a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#1024)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#1018)
    Sad all my G6 peeps are in a different game though
    Other than Ace, of course

    Also, semis with roro again...I hope you're ready for constant tinfoil
    im always disappointed when i dont rand wolf in a game but looking at this playerlist it might be the first time i actually think i dont want to....


    definitely not because of sunbae in particular, not at all..!
  35. Sticky: Niche enough that the award rn is technically,...

    Niche enough that the award rn is technically, "new to mafia? Get the award". I don't see a point in giving an award for how the current iteration is
  36. Sticky: maybe, i dont like the x games before mu thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#14)
    could replace best rookie with best newcomer and then make it so only people who have played less than a certain number of games before coming to MU are eligible to stop very experienced players from dominating the category

    maybe could be 10 or less games played before coming here?

    not sure if it would replace best rookie or be in addition to

    hrm
    maybe, i dont like the x games before mu thing though because forit to be legit wed need to control that. same actually goes for the category as it is today but im pretty sure we dont look it up :P

    It could honestly still be called best roolie, and that would mean more than one thing - player new to MU (ie joined from champs and has made an impression)/new and quickly improved/completely new to the game and immediately seems to be a solid player. that way we remove the "other sites" factor too
  37. Sticky: im not sure about the value of rookie award being...

    im not sure about the value of rookie award being fully new to forum mafia in 2022. Makes more sense for it to be an MU specific award, and more specifically a new player to MU that has showed promise/improved. Most improved player does not include these players, best rookie does not include these players. Realistically also hard to actually know if people are fully new to forum mafia at all, it's a pretty awkward category.


    tldr best rookie should be mu specific and not "played their first game ever of forum mafia in 2022" because thats a very small/niche group of players, and if theyve played other games this year, but the first game on other sites (ofr ecxamole)- thats not actually relevant for an MU award.
  38. Replies
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    Views
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    Sticky: i guess $%#!poster is fine, dude deserves an...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arete (#258)
    Player who consistently makes witty, entertaining, and/or hilarious posts in games.


    Nominate @Manatee for Best $%#!poster

    I acknowledge that this is not what the category is """"intended for"""" but Manatee's manatees were a joy to see, and certainly qualify as entertaining. Every time I saw a new manatee it made me a little happier.

    Here is a collection of manatees:

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5746)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5806)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5826)
    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup (#5819)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5746)
    did you draw this yourself omg
    town
    (/hj)
    and gmorn!
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5875)
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#5848)
    Let's all take a moment to appreciate that we have 190 friends who are playing a game together this week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5901)
    Quote Originally Posted by Creature (#5886)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5952)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#5932)
    Stop posting so much , clear comms
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6008)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#5993)
    OK I ADMIT IT I LOVE YOU OK i $%#!ing love you and it breaks my heart when i see you specchating with someone else or anyone commenting on other games i just want to be your girlfriend and put a heart in my profile linking to specchat and have a walltext of specchat commenting stupid takes i want to meme in discord all night and watch town make stupid plays together but you just seem so uninterested in me it $%#!ing kills me and i cant take it anymore i want to leave you but i care too much about you so please i'm begging you to either love me back or remove me and NEVER contact me again it hurts so much to say this because i need you by my side but if you don't love me then i want you to leave because seeing you spectating would kill me everyday of my pathetic life
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6065)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#6020)
    I'll be back in 6 hrs (hopefully I wake up)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6097)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#6052)
    villagers ig

    ace marvel
    ampersand
    cape90
    creature
    duckqueen
    jaleb
    ketchup
    kuti
    ladd
    marshadow
    michelle
    pony
    punchy
    ratchet
    superjack
    tonystarkprime
    vanity
    variance
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6133)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wurzel Scummidge (#6117)
    Hello
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6197)
    Quote Originally Posted by A famous historian (#6173)
    I feel that it is inappropriate to hold a duel so soon after the creator of Yugi oh's passing.

    What ever happened to the heart of the cards you emotionless fools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#6409)
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaner (#6387)
    Thread is moving too fast
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#9847)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexicon (#9822)
    I just want people to die. That's all
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#9878)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#9854)
    @DuckQueen

    Listen to Everglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#9939)
    Quote Originally Posted by Beck (#9901)
    Quote Originally Posted by MU Anniversary 2022 (#9879)
    I'm Retired Event

    Players: 22
    Mobile Friendly: Yes
    MU Knowledge required: No
    Death risk: Yes
    Time Requirement: 30 minutes


    /in in the #im-retired-signups channel on discord.
    First 22 ins will be taken.
    DO NOT post anything except "in".

    brb gonna try to die quick
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#9948)
    Quote Originally Posted by Illwei (#9930)
    Gross

    Offended

    Annoyed
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17106)
    Quote Originally Posted by Creature (#17037)
    Quote Originally Posted by MU Anniversary 2022 (#15415)
    Weedle
    Kane
    The Penguin
    Mash King
    Cobalt
    vanity.
    Multiverse
    Chaos
    Grug
    Litten

    the following people are in. Please head to the Event discord server; you will be given permissions shortly.

    https://discord.gg/Qcr9s2MY
    Who are the wolves within this list?
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17292)
    Quote Originally Posted by beeboy (#17206)
    ngl I am so excited to preform my ITA shot
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17383)
    Quote Originally Posted by DuckQueen (#17313)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17292)
    Just wondering, do you draw these yourself? 👀
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17461)
    Quote Originally Posted by Litten (#17374)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trochilidae (#17351)
    no but i do
    someone tell me if littens towny
    i've not been townie
    however there have been other people wolfier than me
    ##Vote Litten
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17837)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#17701)
    In-Thread Attack Window

    An In-Thread Attack window has opened. You may use an In-Thread Attack on another player, provided you haven't already used an attack earlier in the Day.

    You can perform this attack by using the following BBCode in a post:

    [ITA]playername[/ITA]

    You can insert it using the ITA BBCode button in the reply menu.

    The contents of the rest of the post are irrelevant, so feel free to flavor it up. Make sure that only the name of the player that you wish to target is inside the BBCode itself.

    After posting, I will quote your post and let you know if your attack succeeded. Good luck!
    The window closes at 1:02 PM EDT on Tuesday, July 12th, 2022. There are 1657645389000 remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#17916)
    Shad

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#21523)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#21517)
    Can I get tagged with the most consensus shot lost and I can try and ISO those peeps? The gods will be pleased with you
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#33027)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuti plz (#32980)


    Here's cat
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#37353)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#37377)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#37413)
    Quote Originally Posted by Multiverse (#37315)
    The master list of claims, mechanical info, and other misc. stuff

    Ace - mod confirmed town from D1
    Hero - nearly mechanically confirmed from 3p shenanigans yesterday
    KoC - claimed Quick_ben targeted them with an ability that force them to shoot Kuti today or die
    Alice Liddell - claims town poisoner
    Egix96 - claims town poison healer, claimed they healed Kuti D3
    Garden Gnome - claims odd night cop
    IAWY - green checked by Garden Gnome
    Grant - has green check from Marko Raj, a dead villager
    Generico - claimed they shot Matrim Dice (who flipped wolf) and that their shot hides their target's flip
    Lucy - claims medium for lynched townies
    natethelesser - claims town backup, backed up limestone (town arson) and doused Chaos n3
    Valentine - claims they got an ability where they chose who to protect from a list (they speculated mafia gave them the ability). They chose Arctic, who survived the lovers' (them and vulgard) death and later flipped wolf.
    Insaner - Ty4on claimed they received results that Wisdom and Ricardo (Ricardo is a flipped wolf) visit Insaner n1 (Insaner softclaimed that they gave Ty4on this result) - Wisdom is town bleeder who said they didn't have Insaner in their wolfread (tinfoil they were redirected), Ricardo wolf multi-target (though only 1 target n1) ITA booster who can make one of their target have 0% ITA rate
    Capri Sun - claims to have 3 silent ITA shots and that their public shot does nothing
    Lumi - claims their shots are beneficial
    Multiverse - claims they got track from boggle event D2 and used it n2 to find Hyena didn't visit anyone
    Violet - had a derp clear which Mera pointed out and 2 now dead wolfies pushed against

    please ping me with other mechanical info and corrections and I'll edit the list
    Quote Originally Posted by Beck (#5926)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#5901)
    Manatee n0

    VILLAGER
    @Multiverse
    @Alice Liddell

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#40807)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#40779)
    Quote Originally Posted by DuckQueen (#40768)
    You should draw one where the manatee hangs out with a duck tbh
    @Duck Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#41254)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#41051)
    Quote Originally Posted by lucy (#41021)
    do a virgin vs chad manatee drawing @Manatee
    @lucy
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#44724)
    Mafia Universe Anniversary 2022 Role PM

    Hello Kaif, you are Amanuensis.



    You joined the site in 2017 and played a ton of games, but since then you've been on a several year long break. Possibly to continue pursuing your career in writing fiction, having written several books. A few months ago however, you returned to the site and played some games yet again - we hope you'll stick around!


    You are a Villager, and you have the following abilities:

    1. Prolific writer Every night, starting n1, you may write a newspaper article to be published in the game thread by the Host account at Start of Day. It must be in newspaper format. Here is an example: click here. Your submissions should not be excessively long and may not be formatted in a manner that attempts to impersonate the game Host announcements.


    MU Anniversary 2022 Game Thread
    InstantHammer

    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#44770)
    Quote Originally Posted by MU Anniversary 2022 (#44727)
    Quote Originally Posted by MU Anniversary 2022 (#44718)
    This was a mistake. Ominoire is dead. Hold for flip.
    Mafia Universe Anniversary 2022 Role PM

    Hello Ominoire, you are Zack.



    You've been around for a long time, and have a very good reputation as a mafia player - among the best out there. You've participated in champs twice, and reached the finale twice as well. And of course, you were drafted in the first round in the MU werewolf draft which is one of the biggest proofs of how good you are. Recently, other than the occasional game - primarily turbos recently, you're mostly seen in the music channels and walri, preaching about holy stuff like Sufjan Stevens and Everything Everything. One of the more peculiar interests you've got, are the AAR's (After Action Reports) for video games. Currently, you're taking Jared Goff to the Super Bowl, whatever that means. It's honestly completely unintelligible for non-americans, but we're happy you're so passionate about this.


    You are a Wolf, and you have the following abilities:

    1. Incredible power: Every day, starting Day 2, you may target another player and kill them.

    2. Dancing goose: Every night, starting n1, you may target up to three other players: The Host account will send those players a goose dancing GIF. This does nothing.

      This is the GIF: https://imgur.com/EJpjQn3
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#44783)
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaner (#44768)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manatee (#44724)
    InstantHammer

    Why did you shoot IH right after he shot Ominoire

    Wtf
    i guess $%#!poster is fine, dude deserves an award, second
  39. Postgame#46402

    Thread: Mafia Universe Anniversary 2022

    by roro__b
    Replies
    46,717
    Views
    373,090

    Completed I actually had 4 subs at the ready and several...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#46390)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#46372)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#46354)
    The only real problem to me is that one of the main plays for wolves is to kill people leading and organising the village.
    And that kind of is one of the reasons to go for strong wolf players as villa instead of giving them until d8 in case they are villa.

    Endgame is by its nature both sides running on fumes because the powerhouses are gone and a role like this kind of removes some of that for the wolves while the village has no way to counteract it yet.
    (and please don't add village treestumps that can endgame, that is the stupid kind of swingy bull$%#!).
    Gonna drop some thoughts here in the spoiler with the caveat of "I wasn't in the game or around for the dvc discussions on it" which either makes me a neutral party that can view things without any investment (a good thing) or someone butting in on something that doesn't concern them (a bad thing) so if you think its <bad thing> feel free to just not click it.

    My belief is that game designers have the main goal of “I want this game to be as fun as possible for the players” and that “a balanced game where both sides have a chance” is the #1 way to make that happen. We've got game reviewers and a ton of experience to draw upon to ensure that the the game skeletons are relatively fair/balanced (things like kill power, numbers, variance reducers, etc). So I think a lot of the creative role designs are currently able to focus on more specific quality of life improvements. The dopplegangers were a great quality of life improvement for removing d1 slankers without losing the cool/potentially important role they randed. Everyone loved them. DVC Oracle was a role in a few games that was really fun and gave us a quality of life improvement of letting dead players keep having fun with the game + provide hilarious memes. There are a bunch of other examples of roles designed specifically to address a thing in mashes that could be better (some worked out better than others!) and I'll approach the wolf leader role as if it were attempting to address an issue.

    The reason I made a comparison to the Wolf Strategist role is that both roles were created to try and “help” with a game issue and that a lot of the complaints for the leader role are fundamentally the same I encountered in post game about the wolf strategist role. The biggest complaint for both boils down to “It enables the wolves to <do thing> that the village cannot do and therefore is unfair”. With strategist it was how the wolves could move important roles off of weaker rands while the village couldn't. With this one it seems like the crux of the complaints is what you said: it allows the wolves to be propped up by their dead in a way the village can't.

    I think this argument is flawed though. It assumes that villages and wolves should be handled equally but I don't think they should. I think villages and wolves have very different experiences in giant mashes and game designers should be tailoring tweaks for quality of life/enjoyment purposes to help out their different issues (the whole equality/equity thing in werewolf form).

    Let's say I approached it as such: A villager sees night start, maybe takes a bit of time to choose the best target for their action – often not even a long time as they've had a good idea as day winds down who they will target – turns the thread off and just decompresses for the night phase. A wolf sees night start, hops in wolf chat, and begins coordinating a dozen+ actions in a group environment which often takes multiples hours. There's really not much of a decompression period for wolves the way there are for villagers. Further: As a villager you may track full blown claims and move on whereas a wolf is trying to read every player to see who softs roles so they can kill them before information get outed. It begins to take shape that wolfing is just a more taxing and demanding rand in a big mash than villaging (I don't think that would be a controversial statement?). So with that in mind I think that creating a role that mitigates the drain/exhaustion is not only an interesting concept, but its also more important for wolves than villagers. Is having 40 wolves doing it too much? Sure, I can see that. Is the concept as a whole flawed? I don't really think so.

    If the arguments were that the role needed some tweaks I'm on board. I think I'd prefer “as long as you're alive, wolves have a full cycle of wolf chat after dying” if it were related to the role being alive or “pick 3 people n0, they never leave wolf chat” if it's an isolated action rather than what it ended up being. I don't think it's overpowered on a conceptual level though.
    Going to reiterate my thoughts already expressed in the graveyard and say that I do not agree with dopplegangers being good for the reasons of:

    • You are essentially telling a player who signed up from the beginning of the game that no, they don't get to know their alignment from the beginning of the game like everyone else, even thought that's what they signed up for!!
    • Basically forcibly moving a player from the playerlist to the top of the sublist is unfair to the player, when they did not sign up to be a sub, and I disagree with robbing players of the choice they made to play from the beginning!!! Subbing in midway through the game means that as town you don't to do any n0/early day 1 stuff while knowing your alignment, and same as mafia while also including any mafia chat shenanigans!!!
    • You're also making it more difficult for the players who do end up trying to read these players, and have to reset everything when the dopplegang happens - wastes their time with an unnecessary complication!!!

    Dopplegangers are not a new concept, this is not a new concern!!! Players who signed up to play in a normal game should be able to expect their role + alignment from rand, not have neither until the end of day 1!! I guess if you don't care about players having that, then feel free ignore this?

    That being said, if the main concern you are trying to address is 0-posters/people flaking, while also keeping their roles in the game, while also giving everyone the agency to play what they signed up for? There are many better alternatives, including but not limited to:

    • Pre-game confirmations!!! This was done a lot for this game, which helped a ton!! As someone who has also done this in my recent mashes I've cohosted, I can attest that people are so much less likely to forget about the game if you bother them more about the game beforehand!!! Another possibility is that they'll realize they don't actually have time and change their mind about playing pre-game, instead of 0-posting/subbing out mid-game - allows you to get someone who actually wants to play instead!!!! Very high effectiveness, would highly recommend regardless of the game!!!!
    • Getting a sub instead - you're basically forcing the player to be a sub anyway, but getting an actual sub instead allows all players/subs the chance to play starting when they actually want to start playing!! Amrock's generally pretty good at this, but I don't want to randomly volunteer him; that being said, I'm quite good at finding people down to sub and am always willing to help do that if needed!!!
    • Culls: basically a mechanic that kills 0/lowposters, doesn't reveal their alignment, and transfers the role to a vanilla (or low-powered role) of the same alignment in the game; while this can likely use further workshopping, it still removes the slanking player while keeping the role in the game, and also gives everyone the chance to play!!! I'd have used these in our mashes, but they often weren't needed due to excessive pre-game confirmations!!
    • I personally think if you really wanted, you could ask the playerlist pre-rand for three volunteers to just be able to post in the thread until they sub in before EoD 1 for a guaranteed sub would be an alternative directly better than doppleganger because it would be their choice, but is not something I'd recommend in lieu of other options!!!


    This got longer than I expected, but in short: dopplegangers are flawed because they remove agency/don't allow all players to play the way they choose to, so pick alternatives that cover the same concepts but better!!
    I actually had 4 subs at the ready and several others who could sub in if really needed. One of the players that got doppelrobbed was batman who 6 posted up until that point and it was the laggy d1. It was a plan to deal with no posting people but.... People actually played this game. In hindsight I'm sad about that one.

    Regarding events, above all, shoutout to UD who was a lifesaver when my energy reserves just didn't match what was scheduled and the others just had too much to do (even though they still hosted the epicmafia event instead of me towards the end of the game. UD hosted several events and was ready to do mor, it was invaluable.

    I was really hyped to make the event relating to ppl/stuff/interests of the community (geoguessr, walrus, AM HUSK (one of the most memorable events this year imo and a perfect theme for an event), EM, "I'm retired"(initially called old but gold tbh). I wanted to reuse some of the "best" events imo from the year, had a few more ideas but didn't fully meet the ambitions on thst front tbqh
  40. Postgame#46369

    Thread: Mafia Universe Anniversary 2022

    by roro__b
    Replies
    46,717
    Views
    373,090

    Completed I'm not gonna talk for UD here but this is very...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#46362)
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#46358)
    I agree that it's very strong, but if we are to never have dead wolves in wolf chat again then all the roles in the game will have to be simplified because it's just too much, thank goodness my teammates were there to night actions because there was no chance I was committing a few more hours after a 1am eod to the game when I already have to work so hard for people to think I'm a villager,

    Based on being one of the thread leaders with duckqueen I gave my team a list of people I think need to be dead in the next couple nights but beyond that I don't know the ins and outs of all the remaining 20 wolf roles and little quirks and limitations or bonuses. I also have a job and a dog and a wife. It's a special week in the year where we go a little harder, but I can only give so much, I helped very briefly with NAs but by Thursday I was exhausted.

    This turned into a ramble. Tl;Dr remove dead wolves you must remove complexity.
    Role just needs some tweaks.

    either limited amount of wolves or limited time (1 cycle after dying OR until night x/playercount x is reached etc).

    It is very clear that people in favour of a role like this are people that already have to stay up until 1-2 am to be around at eod just to be then forced to do night actions for another 4 hours.
    And people who have eod at 8pm their time simply don't care that much about that aspect.

    I personally would love a wolf treestump strategist that gets to stay in thread and wolfchat without a vote etc and just gets to swap roles at start of game and gets to do nightactions for wolves.

    Just endless howling all night and day.
    I'm not gonna talk for UD here but this is very much where the discussion about how we "should've tweaked" the role was among hosts in hindsight. Ie we should've accounted for the eventuality that the wolf leader goes utr throughout the game.

    Maybe wouldn't do these exact tweaks myself, but something along these lines.
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    grug grug grug HAHAHAHAHA?

    grug grug grug HAHAHAHAHA?
  42. Postgame#46199

    Thread: Mafia Universe Anniversary 2022

    by roro__b
    Replies
    46,717
    Views
    373,090

    Completed Regarding the wolfleader role, we talked about...

    Regarding the wolfleader role, we talked about how it shouldve been tweaked (of course!), there's no point in defending it in hindsight just "because", although with tweaks (ie time/nr limits) I still think its a cool type of mechanic, in this case wolves got ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM value out of it, and that "roof" should've been limited from our side, in hindsight, but ill leave it at that, i know and acknowledge that some people are conceptually against it. I am however kinda sad that this has become this big a focal point and led to a lot of people coming out of this experience upset.. i at least hope that the rest was enjoyable and that this can go down in memory as a good/nice thing. Lesson/s learned, not that I'm ever doing a thing like this again

    With all the work we (and by that I mean especially amrock, apoc, dawoodle plus UD and katze (whose help was invaluable at a point where it was needed)) put in, hope you feel like we did this recordbreaking experience justice, you were all part of it, big thanks again for playing..!

    Sorry I'm bad with words and phone posting at 5am while I should save this for a more formal thing
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    Sticky: Does one champs game 3 years ago and nothing else...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#211)
    Quote Originally Posted by roro__b (#210)
    Arogame is a good nom. I'd like to nom santygrass for the same category as well. Started playing here wth the sick champs qualifier, have played a lot since. Someone should refine the writeup
    i would second this but the rookie category is only for people who played their first game of forum mafia in 2022 generally not for people new to MU and santy has been around so he doesn’t qualify unfortunately
    Does one champs game 3 years ago and nothing else count as around/"part of the community"? Definitely shouldn't if so, kinda scuffed lol

    Nvm sorry I thought it was new /inexperienced on mu, kinda weird cat to verify/qualify for tho, shrug
  44. Replies
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    Sticky: Arogame is a good nom. I'd like to nom santygrass...

    Arogame is a good nom. I'd like to nom santygrass for the same category as well. Started playing here wth the sick champs qualifier, have played a lot since. Someone should refine the writeup
  45. Completed THE ANNIVERSARY EVENT WAS POSTED IN THE WRONG...

    THE ANNIVERSARY EVENT WAS POSTED IN THE WRONG THREAD. DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT AT ALL.
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    Sticky: 12/12 semis make it hwppen

    12/12 semis make it hwppen
  47. Replies
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    Sticky: So happy for you lol

    So happy for you lol
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    Sticky: Hype!!! A lot of deserving people from g3 Ente...

    Hype!!! A lot of deserving people from g3

    Ente and rampposi as well, being the 2 townies to kill 2 wolves and bring it home from f5 is sick and deserves recognition too

    And the rest tbh
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    Sticky: Sunbae Champ s9

    Sunbae Champ s9
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    Closing the thread, gl!

    Closing the thread, gl!
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