Several people are playing a forum mafia game, including three people: Alice (a villager), Bob (a wolf), and B0b (a villager). Alice mistakenly thinks Bob and B0b are the same person. She only reads half the game thread (it is a mash, so this is socially acceptable), and does not see any of Bob's posts, but does see all of B0b's posts. Alice thinks that B0b's posts are extremely wolfy, and decides to case Bob, successfully pushing his elimination. She is then nightkilled. Did Alice play well? Did she have good reads?
Top 10 Animated western shows, ordered:
Over the Garden Wall
Avatar: The Last Airbender
The Dragon Prince
She-Ra and the Princesses of Power
Legend of Korra
i don't think a direct jump from warning -> ban is a good idea
i think attitude should probably be taken into account more - i assume it already is on the moderation side but looking at stuff like dota's first ban it seems like he never cared about heeding the warning from the start, i think there's a massive difference between something like that and someone who's genuinely trying to improve but keeps slipping back into old habits
(this is not accusing the mod team of not doing this it's more of a counter to the direct warning -> ban)
will this contain spoilers for spiritfarer the game @neopest
@Mistyx i'm going to answer this because the spiritfarer theme specifically is my idea/incorporation
there won't be like, anything elaborate, but roles and their flavors for the game will be based on characters/spirits in spiritfarer
so like for example, if you don't want to know anything remotely about the characters, or minor details about how the game ties together, before you play, then yeah it'd constitute 'spoilers' - but imo it wouldn't take away from playing it or spoil anything directly related to the trajectory/story line/whole experience
hope this makes sense
(was not planning on joining anyway because i'm likely going to be busy at that time but interested in subbing if i wont get spoiled on the actual game)
"absurdist horror narrative"
"Charleston Shoe Thieves"
"developed a deep lore around the game and its teams"
"running a series of Industrial Workers of the World union training courses"
"'incineration' of players by 'rogue umpires'"
oh god it has a tvtropes page
oh god it has its own entire wiki
Yeah this looks like exactly the sort of $%#! that I could get sucked down the rabbit hole for weeks at a time. Think I'm probably gonna hold off on doing that until after I pass the AMA off, but otherwise......................................... ..................
Hypothetical: It comes out that aliens are trying to conquer Earth. Through sheer tomfoolery and luck, we get to play them in a game of basketball for our fates and are allowed to pick one professional to lead a team of otherwise clueless individuals. Naturally we'd want the best chance to win and have months to train and practice these randoms with each other so help the team gel. I think it's a given that we'd prefer someone younger - need peak athletic form - who also is rather sociable given they need to bond with a bunch of different types of people on the team. My question is this: what color suit does Ben Simmons wear on the bench after backing out of the game last minute due to the pressure being too much?
Also I don't feel like its disingenous at all to compare the two. I really don't. I've made suggestions to wolf partners before or tried to get them to post at least something but never have flat out written a post for someone. That's something I feel goes beyond the spirit of the game. It's a unfair advantage especially when you have some of the best Mafia players on this site like Arete and so many others writing posts for you.
how is this unfair but not sheeping strong town players' reads unfair
what is your most controversial forum mafia opinion
Yeah, this is gonna be a long one.
I think that Champs, in its current format, is seriously flawed and either needs to be greatly reworked, or perhaps even scrapped.
This has nothing to do with the structure or the organization. Lissa, Ara, whoever else currently runs Champs are basically blameless, and I apologize to them because normally in situations like this I prefer to bring up my concerns about $%#! privately before spilling it out in public, but, well, AMA.
I followed Champs from s3 to the middle of s8, and especially with the migration of specchat over to Discord, it just seems like every year you always get a number of players disenchanted by the whole thing, particularly those who go further. I'm not talking about the usuals who can't get used to MU culture or forum posting as opposed to Telegram or whatever, you're always gonna have them (as unfortunate as that is), I'm talking about people who know their business, who whether MU regs, or semi-regs, or are just on the Champs circuit, or even newcomers who adjust well, who simply don't have a good experience coming out of it, and I think it's largely down to specchat and the external pressure it places on the players.
It sucks, because specchat is great from a lot of perspectives. It invigorates the community, is a meme breeding ground, and aside from Anni and the larger mashes of the year, it's responsible for most of the common reference points that community members know that help build the overall mythos of said community over time. This isn't even counting the numerous friendships and relationships that have formed because of champs and specchat connections over the years, to the point where literal children have been born because of this.
But if we want to keep the good, we need to figure out how to get rid of the bad. I'm not sure how it's been this year, but every year that I've followed Champs, you always have the players that go hard only to come up short; the players that give it their everything and truly think they're doing the right thing only to come into specchat afterwards and find themselves a running joke because they tunneled the wrong target; the players who - god, especially in finales - just get a little overwhelmed lategame by the knowledge that a dedicated group of 100+ people are watching and dissecting and potentially memeing about every move. If these players succeed, great, but if they fail... the consequences can be pretty $%#!in bad.
I've privately and semi-privately talked with a number of finalists about this over the years, and there's definitely been an overarching theme of disenchantment with making it so far to finale and what it brings. You feel so obligated to do as much as you can - for your alignment, for your own advancement purposes, for your own sense of well-being and closure - the stakes have a strong potential of rocketing up, and there's such a high risk of failure, or even if you succeed, not being the perceived reason for your faction's success. Maybe you come into specchat, having done your job to satisfaction, and everybody is instead praising the other guy who maybe they know a little better. Or even worse, $%#!ting on the other faction instead.
I won Season 5. I regret winning Season 5. I regret having played Season 5. This isn't a feeling that's come to the surface in the past year or two; it started soon after I won. I had my own reasons for playing that season, and they were valid at the time and still are, but if I could do it over again, knowing what I know now, I would have declined the nomination.
Retrospectively, it was a no-win situation going in. I'm going to try not to sound like a douche here, and apologies if I fail, but that year that probably my peak as a player. MU itself nominated me above some really strong names, and that plus my general level of play that year meant there were a lot of expectations on me. If I "failed" those expectations by crashing out in qualifiers or making wildcards but missing out on the finale or making finale but turning in another dud or something, I would have felt like I let the community down. If I met or exceeded those expectations (as eventually happened), they would only rise in the future. I got put on a similar level as players equal to or stronger than me. While I may have at the time deserved it, as time passed and my investment level - and thus play - declined, this was no longer the case. I was clearly past my prime, but the world was still expected of me, I was unable to deliver again and again, and it eventually became too much. It was a slow bleeding out of the joy I once found in the game... and this was coming from a specchat darling.
Now imagine somebody from the other side. Take people like Quick, or brainbomb (moth). They both became specchat villains in their seasons (IIRC moth played again, later on, but I have no memory of how he did - I'm talking about s4 and s5 here). What did they do to deserve this status? Were they assholes? Were they bigoted? Did they angleshoot, or play dishonorably, or anything else? No. Their heinous crimes were the fact that they tunneled the wrong guys. They truly believed that their targets were wolves, and acted accordingly. Their reads - and more importantly, methodologies - were flawed, but that was it. They had games where, randing v, they happened to be loudly incorrect. For that, they got tarred and feathered by specchat, and even beyond. I don't want to go as far as to say they became pariahs, but it definitely put them on the wrong foot with the community. I put Quick's tunnel at #5 of my list of worst Champs eliminations of all time, an article that has spread pretty far and wide through the larger forum mafia community. All he did was have a bad read. He's going to be remembered for that for a long time. He doesn't deserve that.
There are so many ways to become a scapegoat in Champs, it's ridiculous. Tunnel the wrong person. Not live up to expectations. Not realize that the forum rules and procedures on MU are different from your home community. Misvote in a critical situation. Have RL change up on you and force you to become less active. Have your emotions get the better of you after nearly two weeks of keeping them in check and get forced out after nearly two weeks of a pressure cooker situation in which you get little rest. The list goes on.
Especially in the latter stages, if you don't have a great game, you come into specchat immediately after you see the "you died" PM and get bombarded with everybody at once interacting with and reacting to you, and once the initial wave dies down, you vanity search. And you see everything. And, because you're human, and because specchat is also made of humans, you inevitably see the criticism, delivered in the worst way possible: an unfiltered, fast-chatting environment where analysis is discouraged and hot takes are greeted with enthusiasm. You read all of that, with emotions running high, and it warps your view of the entire situation. You feel confused, let down, betrayed. In your own head, your gameplay makes perfect sense. But here are dozens of confident strangers, most of them with far less information than you, saying otherwise. The dissonance grows, and you begin to get jaded.
I also feel deep shame for both having contributed to so much of the above over the years, and for not doing my part to address this issue before now when I had the chance to, from the inside.
I strongly believe that the concept of specchat needs to be reworked in order to mitigate or prevent this phenomena, and it needs more than a band-aid. The mods can encourage positive chatter only as much times as they want, but people are people, and even well-couched criticisms delivered in that format are still going to sting. The overall pressure is still going to be there.
But here's the problem: What is Champs without specchat? Or, if we want to go straight to the source and remove a lot of the pressure, what is Champs without a champion? It's always been said that Champs is primarily a social event, and the later rounds + finale + title are just there as window-dressing. Maybe it's time to stop just leaning in that direction and maybe start going all the way in that direction.
But would Champs as a concept survive? How many communities (or "communities") would bother sending reps if there were no competition, no possibility of a prize. The status of semifinalist, finalist, and champion does matter in a social setting such as here, as much as we might pretend otherwise. I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but I'm not sure it would. And this presents its own issues.
I don't have any solution to this issue, or even know if there is one beyond scrapping the thing entirely. But what I do know is, when you have so many people - especially in the later rounds - come out of their experience so disenchanted by it, and when more than one person actually sees their physical health drop because of their performance and output in finales over the years, you have a problem.
Maybe this entire screed is taking agency away from a bunch of people, and everyone's cool with it, and this is all for nothing. But that's definitely not the undercurrent I've sensed over the years with increasing unease.
jesus $%#!ing christ I started writing this before dinner and now better call saul is about to start and it's just only now done
what is your least controversial forum mafia opinion
gh sometimes the paragraphs you write are pretty good
There is nothing worse than not having people left who have the time to do nightactions and being forced to do it.
Limiting the role to 1 wolf per cycle while it is alive or a set amount of wolves who want to do the extra night work is great (2-3 total).
The whole team stayed in chat only because the wolf leader endgamed, but I don't think that part of the role was fun.
This is mainly where I'm at, yeah; limiting it a bit would have been better, role still isn't OP/bastard, lots of people who've already said what I'd want to say but better!!
I'd say the main issue which is incredibly difficult to balance for town that hasn't been discussed much is the morale effect, from which think we've all heard how hype it's been for mafia to be able to cheer their living wolves on!!!!
Also, mafia roles allowing one or two players to stay behind in mafia chat isn't particularly new or bastard regardless, and is perfectly reasonable!!
I imagine there'd be much less discussion about the role if Marshadow had died early on, just some massive maximization of its usage, which is very reasonable to mafia to do there!!!!
if we're talking about busted roles that died early can we talk about the newcombhood
i'm not against having dead wolves in chat but i think giving literally every dead wolf the ability to stay in wolf chat after death is overkill
i think the wolf leader role itself actually has the solution to this - giving the ability to designate two players to stay in wolf chat post death is something i absolutely can see having a positive effect on future mashes
as a personal thing, i also don't really like the idea of a wolf role (OR a town role) that can like, 100% take out someone before day 1 ends. like if it's death that's part of an event or w/e, that's different, but role related kind of sucks .-. like... looking forward to playing anni all year then dying day 1 for something that's out of your control (even stuff absolutely in your control though to a degree, wouldn't be mad)
because i don't want to just say a negative thing, i want to add that the ideas of like the role lucy and phrase had were $%#!ing based
i get the logic but i think in a game this size its necessary for momentum
i didnt read endgame so i dont really have anything to say about it but am still going to echo what catbae has to say with regards to endgame play, at least in theory - usually i think if one side is thinking "i just want to end this game" the other side has ~already won
Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.
The Time Protector may each night target a player. All actions targeting the Time Protector's target will be delayed until the next night. These actions will only occur the next night, if the players who performed them are still alive. In order to roleblock delayed actions, the players must be roleblocked on the latter night (and not the former).