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  1. Day 4#4322

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i am probably just about done posting for tonight...

    i am probably just about done posting for tonight but i want everyone to pinky swear that they wont vote for me or hammer overnight, because i really want to spend some time tomorrow diving into the game more
  2. Day 4#4321

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread to be fair, ladd didn't vote vanity "at the end"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4319)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#4316)
    Retrospective Day 1 Votecount as of Post #1675

    Post #1675 was originally posted at 6:01 PM EST on Wednesday, January 12th, 2022.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 Lissa staypositivefriend (173), Hally (174), Amrock (180), Psycho666Soldier (188), Riki (40)
    3 vanity. ladd (177), Panther (76), Empoof (33)
    2 Empoof Limestone (50), Apogee (123)
    1 Apogee Lissa (80)
    1 Amrock Zack (171)
    1 Panther vanity. (184)

    View Vote History

    Requested by Hally.
    if it’s vanity/ladd

    - would two wolves vote vanity at the end knowing there’s a vig that could shoot the counterwagon? why not bus empoof instead or vote lissa?

    - would vanity vote off wagon on panther? if ladd and empoof were both bussing her? if two wolves were in vig range at EoD why not bus empoof back just to maximize cred in the event one of them getting shot?

    it doesn’t quite fit but i guess wolves can do whatever and they may have been distracted by empoof’s weiner pics
    to be fair, ladd didn't vote vanity "at the end" - to my memory, he voted for her incredibly early on and kept his vote on her throughout the majority of the day. in a world where ladd is a wolf that decided to hardbus vanity, i could see him being reluctant to unvote and deciding to keep parking his vote on vanity without really any taking any strides to push her over. i don't know why empoof voted for vanity, but i'm reluctant to put too much stock into his vote since it seems like he wasn't super connected with the game on d1 in general

    that's a decent point about vanity voting off-wagon, though. if vanity was a wolf that was being hardbussed by ladd/empoof, i don't get why she would park her vote on panther either - i don't see a clear team strategy behind it, at least
  3. Day 4#4320

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread some zack/ladd stuff:

    some zack/ladd stuff:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#434)
    the stated strength of ladds wolfread on vanity feels off to me, but I also had this problem last time we played and he was a villa (though the read was indeed wrong), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#620)
    i think its silly to call ladd a wolf for being wrong on something halfway into d1

    its ridiculous i need to even say that
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2095)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2094)
    fwiw i dont agree with the sentiment of "there needs to be 1 wolf between ladd/vanity" at all and it feels like a false dichotomy to me. that said, i am finding myself with a general lack of reasons to townread ladd
    agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2337)
    I just looked back over ladds iso (for D2 only) and can someone explain to me how/why he's a wolf in a sentence or two without mentioning him being correct or not on vanity

    I think he is just a villager ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I think hally and spf are also probably just villagers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    apogee probably town based on the non-cov game I barely looked at, I understand where the "lexicon tell" comes from now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    not there on lime vanity psycho panther amrock ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2456)
    i guess it could be w/w but like ... why?

    I just fail to find any real issue I have with ladd's play other than "maybe his d1 wolfread was incorrect" which is a ridiculous metric even for someone like ladd.

    i dunno, he's an excellent wolf and all, but I've tried to steer away from going down the rabbit hole of paranoia on strong players who are making completely fine posts that don't trouble me. This isn't ironclad or anything but I don't find any compelling reason to think he isn't town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#3716)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3715)
    if apogee is a wolf i feel like he spewed spf as a wolf via his progression on her because i don’t know why he would randomly decide to hard clear her today when he could easily not defend her today if he wanted to

    i guess he decided to link himself to spf more once ladd floated that world to give the illusion it’s correct after he flips, and ladd could even be the other wolf in that world

    but i dunno, i feel like he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar trying to power wolf with spf because he figured they were both in good enough thread position to clear each other and run a truck over ladd
    damn I was just about to vote ladd and move on with my life too
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#3722)
    my vote is on ladd in spirit but i don't want to risk an early maj

    waited until he went to sleep to backstab hehe

    shrug probably just ladd/apogee and they had a wrong PR read on limestone and $%#!ed up i guess (lime did also have ladd/apogee as his next two suspects in line and maybe they misread how people would be reading hiim after amrock flip)

    sorry for any frustration spf
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#3741)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#3736)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#3722)
    my vote is on ladd in spirit but i don't want to risk an early maj

    waited until he went to sleep to backstab hehe

    shrug probably just ladd/apogee and they had a wrong PR read on limestone and $%#!ed up i guess (lime did also have ladd/apogee as his next two suspects in line and maybe they misread how people would be reading hiim after amrock flip)

    sorry for any frustration spf
    you don’t think spf is wolfy?

    also i don’t get why you would vote ladd over apogee if apogee can be a wolf with either ladd or spf and you don’t think ladd/spf works

    doesn’t that mean you should vote apogee? or is this some kind of test lol
    i am so sick of debating ladd and being berated about it lol

    he's wolfy enough and dead villas thought so, if that's wrong blast through apogee and spf

    re: apogee i think if you wnated to pick my brain that was not a great way to go about it but i'm relaly done with this back and forth and sick of it
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4137)
    if i stop worrying about the potential rantings of dead villagers in dvc and give their reads the middle finger, i just don't see ladd as a wolf here

    i'm not sure how he got to be such a hot wagon and wolfread in the first place


    yeah i don't know, i honestly still get a lot of whiplash when i go to zack's ISO and control + F "ladd". he switches between defending ladd and calling him villagery to calling him wolfy and wanting to vote for him to calling him villagery again, without it being clear what is prompting him to change his mind or what his read on ladd is based on in general. it's a recurring problem throughout his ISO - zack will change his mind about ladd at the drop of a hat

    the whiplash between zack saying "he's wolfy enough and dead villagers thought so" on p#3741 to saying "i don't get how he got got be so wolfread in the firstplace" on p#4137 is really hard for me to swallow as a legitimate progression. i understand that zack explained his thoughts more clearly on p#4261, but even with that post in mind, what "holistic" reasons does zack have to townread ladd? what reasons did he find overnight that convinced him that ladd was a villager that he somehow didn't find throughout the entirety of yesterday?

    arguably this progression is so sloppy that it could loop back around to being not W/W indicative, but i really just don't understand zack's approach to reading ladd at all in this game. p#3446 is the only post where i feel like zack clued us into his thought process about him

    (also i took a quick look at the interactions on ladd's side and i couldn't find a single post where ladd doubted zack's alignment or meaningfully interrogated him - probably doesn't mean anything but worth noting regardless)
  4. Day 4#4318

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread do i get towncred for being in the middle of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4313)
    alright, ime it’s usually villagers who do it but obviously ladd is smart enough to know it would look vilagery so i don’t think it’s a point for or against him and acknowledge he could 100% do it as a wolf

    spf, i think that both of our times would be better spent looking back at previous days because the answers are there not here, at least imo

    we could go in circles forever talking about this stuff but i’d rather we save our posts for digging into D1-3 and trying to solve this thing

    thanks for being a good sport regardless of your alignment
    do i get towncred for being in the middle of reading ladd's ISO before you said this? :P
  5. Day 4#4317

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i took a quick skim at the way that ladd treated...

    i took a quick skim at the way that ladd treated vanity throughout d1, and his push on vanity had a decent amount of teeth for it. he had vanity as his preferred chop when vanity was tied 3-3-3 with katze and empoof, and ladd had enough influence in the thread at that point for his push on vanity to have very plausibly pushed her over

    on the other hand, ladd softened on his push on vanity in the final moments of d1, and said he was only 55% confident on her being a wolf and that he wouldn't push hard for her to go over. i can see ladd choosing to do this regardless of vanity's alignment, since lissa was the leading wagon, and i can see him prioritizing mischopping lissa on d1 over making sure his push on vanity went through

    my instinct based on the way that ladd/vanity interacted throughout d1 is that they aren't teamed (and if my memory serves, i feel similarly about the way ladd interacted with vanity throughout the next couple of dayphases after that), but there's nothing that definitively dissociates them from each other
  6. Day 4#4312

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread yes, i'm 100% serious in saying that i think it's...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4311)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4308)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4306)
    hats off to ladd if he’s with vanity and snapped spf because zack and i both said we thought it was spf/vanity
    it seems really clear FMPOV that ladd took advantage of you/zack/vanity(?) all saying that you felt comfortable with a snapvote to vote for me and try to end the game as quickly as possible. if ladd is partnered with vanity (or zack or you), he would benefit from approaching today as urgently as possible and trying to rush things

    i truly do not believe that ladd would be OK with voting 20 minutes into LYLO as town on a player that is not mechanically confirmed to him - i could be wrong about that, but i just feel like it goes against common courtesy to the extent that it should be outing for him
    wat

    you think it’s wolfy because it’s rude? i think villagers are usually less likely to care about that and just vote whenever they’re confident, and it was pretty obvious to me either he or you would the other from how you went at it last day

    i get regardless of your alignment you’re gonna say everything he does is wolfy but i don’t think snapping you is outing because it “goes against common courtesy”

    that seems kinda ridiculous
    yes, i'm 100% serious in saying that i think it's >rand likely for wolves to snapvote in LYLO situations before everyone has checked in, particularly if they feel like they can rush the game or get a win as quickly as possible

    maybe it's just a culture thing, but i don't agree with you that villagers are less likely to care about that and it doesn't align with my experience at all
  7. Day 4#4310

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread like i don't know, maybe LYLO culture is just...

    like i don't know, maybe LYLO culture is just different from how i prefer it to be, but i always come into LYLO with the assumption that:

    A. nobody will snapvote less than ~24 hours into the day

    B. nobody will snapvote before everyone has had the chance to check in

    C. if somebody does snapvote, the person they snapvote will be confirmed mafia from their point of view

    ladd broke all three of these rules, and it really irritated me at the time, but i get why he did it because it was optimal play for him to try to rush the chop on me as quickly as possible
  8. Day 4#4308

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread it seems really clear FMPOV that ladd took...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4306)
    hats off to ladd if he’s with vanity and snapped spf because zack and i both said we thought it was spf/vanity
    it seems really clear FMPOV that ladd took advantage of you/zack/vanity(?) all saying that you felt comfortable with a snapvote to vote for me and try to end the game as quickly as possible. if ladd is partnered with vanity (or zack or you), he would benefit from approaching today as urgently as possible and trying to rush things

    i truly do not believe that ladd would be OK with voting 20 minutes into LYLO as town on a player that is not mechanically confirmed to him - i could be wrong about that, but i just feel like it goes against common courtesy to the extent that it should be outing for him
  9. Day 4#4305

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread how would you be expecting me to post as a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4303)
    i dunno, i don’t really feel like spf is posting like a villager who thinks she’s being set up as the game losing mislunch

    i can check the syndicate game though
    how would you be expecting me to post as a villager that you aren't seeing in my posts right now? serious question
  10. Day 4#4302

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i am either incredibly easy to read or one of the...

    i am either incredibly easy to read or one of the most difficult people to read in the world depending on who u ask
  11. Day 4#4301

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread oh well like i said yesterday, the syndicate...

    oh

    well like i said yesterday, the syndicate game was a pretty off game for me in general and i wasn't really in the right headspace to project towniness or solve the game like i usually do

    i think that ive been way townier in this game by basically every metric, but clearly at least some people don't think so, so shrug
  12. Day 4#4298

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i wasnt in the 18er sk game....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4295)
    i remember me and sunbae being convinced spf was a wolf in 18er sk from how she posted the last few phases

    maybe she is genuinely just bad at being villagy in such spots (uh, no offense...)
    i wasnt in the 18er sk game....?
  13. Day 4#4296

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread true, so in that world i would probably just try...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4293)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4288)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4286)
    the reason i asked what your plan would be is because you said it wouldn’t be to try to turn me against zack, but if you’re teamed with vanity i don’t think you have another angle here besides that? what else could you do realistically?
    mm well, in a world where i'm partnered with vanity, i would have to pick between pushing on you or zack, and i can imagine that both of those options would feel borderline impossible and unappealing as a wolf

    which is why my instinct is that i would probably be pushing on vanity and trying to bus her, but it's hard for me to say without actually being in that position
    i get you, but i don’t think you could really push on vanity once ladd snapped you
    true, so in that world i would probably just try as hard as possible to get ladd pushed over

    but clearly that hasn't proven to be an easy task, so i guess in a world where i'm W/W with vanity i would just be screwed lol
  14. Day 4#4294

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread 🤔

    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#378)
    yeah i'm a bit unconvinced that ladd has to be a wolf from my perspective. i mean, ladd historically doesn't really have a consistent read on me. his history is overall a bit spotty and he's already alluded to that

    in fact, that amrock post only makes me want to vote spf, actually, especially after this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#356)
    It just makes no sense to me. "i thought this specific post from hally was towny because it was a genuinely good breakdown of my read on katze and it made me back up and do a double take" just rings my bull$%#! meter. I don't feel like backing up and doing a double take is something that happens IRL and I don't know why it would make them townread you. It sounds good but idrk what it means
    which i actually completely get where this is coming from. like i can almost see it as a post that was designed to look nice instead of actually coming off as a real thought. in a way, it's performative.

    i also agree that ladd reading spf as a villager for disagreeing with what she's been attacked with feels silly

    ##Vote staypositivefriend

    i don't feel great voting on lissa anyways
    🤔
  15. Day 4#4288

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread mm well, in a world where i'm partnered with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4286)
    the reason i asked what your plan would be is because you said it wouldn’t be to try to turn me against zack, but if you’re teamed with vanity i don’t think you have another angle here besides that? what else could you do realistically?
    mm well, in a world where i'm partnered with vanity, i would have to pick between pushing on you or zack, and i can imagine that both of those options would feel borderline impossible and unappealing as a wolf

    which is why my instinct is that i would probably be pushing on vanity and trying to bus her, but it's hard for me to say without actually being in that position
  16. Day 4#4285

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread tbf my wolf theatre would probably be way cooler...

    tbf my wolf theatre would probably be way cooler than that
  17. Day 4#4283

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread not very, which is a big part of the reason why...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4279)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4277)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4271)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4268)
    tbh i havent really had an issue with her posts today up until p#4250 - i thought that it was kind of towny that she was asking me to not give up (because if she's a wolf and saw that i was feeling a bit disheartened, i think she would have wanted to encourage that feeling rather than try to motivate me), and i like that it felt like she was considering things from all angles

    but p##4250 is such a wolfy post that i dont really know what to make of it lol
    well what do you make of that post?
    my gut reaction was that it was vanity trying to pressure you/zack into voting for me so that she could blitz and win - it feels wild contradictory for her to open today by asking me to try and not give up, while exhibiting the defeatist mindset of: "SPF should be voted because we lose if she's town anyway". it just feels slimey and agenda-y, which isnt really something ive felt much from vanity before that point
    if she’s trying to get zack or i to vote you so she could blitz, she would be teamed with ladd in that world

    how possible do you see ladd/vanity as being?
    not very, which is a big part of the reason why i've been tinfoiling zack so much in the first place. a world where vanity/ladd are teamed is a world where ladd played outside of his typical wolf meta and a world where vanity felt comfortable with being hardbussed extremely early into the game, and i find both of those premises difficult to believe

    that said, i havent taken a close look at their interactions yet
  18. Day 4#4282

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread and the wowee usage was 100% intentional here lol

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4281)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4276)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4273)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4263)
    i just want to reiterate that i actually found this wowee wolfy

    i’m a big proponent of wowee usage and it’s even been suggested the wowee dog should be renamed hally, but even i wouldn’t wowee in such a grave circumstance as that

    and i believe that this is the third suspiciously placed emoji that spf has used this game

    i rest my case, your honor
    sorry that my emoji usage is too cool for u to understand!
    should i be suspicious of the fact that you didn’t get annoyed at me for bringing up your emoji usage as a reason to wolf read you in lylo?
    i mean, why should i be annoyed? i was annoyed at the start of the day and it didn't get me anywhere. the situation is objectively frustrating, but it's just a game, and i'm entering zen mode. i don't want to get heated with anyone here and i don't think it would be fun for anyone

    but also, "your emoji usage is scummy" doesn't really give me anything to refute, lol. it's such a silly read that it warrants an equally silly response
    and the wowee usage was 100% intentional here lol
  19. Day 4#4281

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i mean, why should i be annoyed? i was annoyed at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4276)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4273)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4077)
    wolfy wowee emote
    i just want to reiterate that i actually found this wowee wolfy

    i’m a big proponent of wowee usage and it’s even been suggested the wowee dog should be renamed hally, but even i wouldn’t wowee in such a grave circumstance as that

    and i believe that this is the third suspiciously placed emoji that spf has used this game

    i rest my case, your honor
    sorry that my emoji usage is too cool for u to understand!
    should i be suspicious of the fact that you didn’t get annoyed at me for bringing up your emoji usage as a reason to wolf read you in lylo?
    i mean, why should i be annoyed? i was annoyed at the start of the day and it didn't get me anywhere. the situation is objectively frustrating, but it's just a game, and i'm entering zen mode. i don't want to get heated with anyone here and i don't think it would be fun for anyone

    but also, "your emoji usage is scummy" doesn't really give me anything to refute, lol. it's such a silly read that it warrants an equally silly response
  20. Day 4#4280

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread that's a really hard question for me to answer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4274)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4272)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4258)
    why was this question even asked

    hally basically says "yes" then you go and write a huge wall calling me a wolf anyway

    feels like it was designed to invoke paranoia
    i didn’t want to say it yet but the way spf has approached me this F5 strikes me as how she would play it as a wolf

    i think if she’s a wolf and ladd is a villager she knows the only way she gets out of this is if she appeals to me directly

    you tend to be more stubborn than i am and i’m more susceptible to getting pocketed especially by her, so i could totally see her thinking that appealing to you is a waste and her only chance is to get me paranoid enough of you that i stop clearing you, which would make me more likely to not vote her
    don't you think that this would be the case regardless of my alignment? if i have you as one of my strongest townreads and i am actively paranoid about zack, then of course i'm going to naturally "appeal" to you more and try to get on the same page as you

    though, fwiw, trying to get you to second guess your read on zack to the extent that you don't vote me today is something that i'm like 99% sure is never going to happen, and it would probably never be my plan as a wolf in the first place. (granted, in a world where i'm a wolf with vanity, i would have to choose between pushing on you or pushing on zack, so i get where the paranoia is coming from ig)
    well what do you think your plan would be if you were a wolf today?
    that's a really hard question for me to answer because it's so context-dependent - if i was a wolf, then the game would probably look different right now in the first place

    but really, it would depend on who i'm partnered with. in a world where i'm partnered with you or zack, i would probably just let myself get killed today and then let either of you win in the f3. (and it's likely that i would bus or distance from whichever one of you i was partnered with). if i was partnered with ladd, i would probably hardtunnel on him as much as possible and avoid talking about other people to avoid spewing them. if i was partnered with vanity, i guess that i wouldn't have many options, but my instinct tells me that i would probably try to do a lot of wolf theatre with her to make it look like we can't be teamed

    this probably wasn't very helpful, but the question is just too theoretical for me to give a real answer
  21. Day 4#4277

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread my gut reaction was that it was vanity trying to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4271)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4268)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4254)
    i was just about to ask you what you think of vanity’s posts today, then i refreshed

    i guess that answers that lol


    (still curious what you think of her posts before that one)
    tbh i havent really had an issue with her posts today up until p#4250 - i thought that it was kind of towny that she was asking me to not give up (because if she's a wolf and saw that i was feeling a bit disheartened, i think she would have wanted to encourage that feeling rather than try to motivate me), and i like that it felt like she was considering things from all angles

    but p##4250 is such a wolfy post that i dont really know what to make of it lol
    well what do you make of that post?
    my gut reaction was that it was vanity trying to pressure you/zack into voting for me so that she could blitz and win - it feels wild contradictory for her to open today by asking me to try and not give up, while exhibiting the defeatist mindset of: "SPF should be voted because we lose if she's town anyway". it just feels slimey and agenda-y, which isnt really something ive felt much from vanity before that point
  22. Day 4#4275

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread yeah it probably doesnt mean anything but i was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4269)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4266)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4256)

    spf/vanity do either of u think hally is a wolf and if so why?
    and not to be sassy, but i feel like you wouldnt have asked this question if you read my posts on the last page

    (ie: no, but i'm double checking my read on hally just to be safe)
    it was addressed to both of you to double check and it took two seconds to answer... this is silly
    yeah it probably doesnt mean anything but i was just noting it as potential evidence that you havent been reading my posts lol
  23. Day 4#4273

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread sorry that my emoji usage is too cool for u to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4077)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4076)
    is apogee not gonna show up again?
    wolfy wowee emote
    i just want to reiterate that i actually found this wowee wolfy

    i’m a big proponent of wowee usage and it’s even been suggested the wowee dog should be renamed hally, but even i wouldn’t wowee in such a grave circumstance as that

    and i believe that this is the third suspiciously placed emoji that spf has used this game

    i rest my case, your honor
    sorry that my emoji usage is too cool for u to understand!
  24. Day 4#4272

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread don't you think that this would be the case...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4258)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4200)
    @Hally - how confident do you feel that zack is town, coming into today? would you bank the game on him being town?
    why was this question even asked

    hally basically says "yes" then you go and write a huge wall calling me a wolf anyway

    feels like it was designed to invoke paranoia
    i didn’t want to say it yet but the way spf has approached me this F5 strikes me as how she would play it as a wolf

    i think if she’s a wolf and ladd is a villager she knows the only way she gets out of this is if she appeals to me directly

    you tend to be more stubborn than i am and i’m more susceptible to getting pocketed especially by her, so i could totally see her thinking that appealing to you is a waste and her only chance is to get me paranoid enough of you that i stop clearing you, which would make me more likely to not vote her
    don't you think that this would be the case regardless of my alignment? if i have you as one of my strongest townreads and i am actively paranoid about zack, then of course i'm going to naturally "appeal" to you more and try to get on the same page as you

    though, fwiw, trying to get you to second guess your read on zack to the extent that you don't vote me today is something that i'm like 99% sure is never going to happen, and it would probably never be my plan as a wolf in the first place. (granted, in a world where i'm a wolf with vanity, i would have to choose between pushing on you or pushing on zack, so i get where the paranoia is coming from ig)
  25. Day 4#4268

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread tbh i havent really had an issue with her posts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4254)
    i was just about to ask you what you think of vanity’s posts today, then i refreshed

    i guess that answers that lol


    (still curious what you think of her posts before that one)
    tbh i havent really had an issue with her posts today up until p#4250 - i thought that it was kind of towny that she was asking me to not give up (because if she's a wolf and saw that i was feeling a bit disheartened, i think she would have wanted to encourage that feeling rather than try to motivate me), and i like that it felt like she was considering things from all angles

    but p##4250 is such a wolfy post that i dont really know what to make of it lol
  26. Day 4#4266

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread and not to be sassy, but i feel like you wouldnt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4256)

    spf/vanity do either of u think hally is a wolf and if so why?
    and not to be sassy, but i feel like you wouldnt have asked this question if you read my posts on the last page

    (ie: no, but i'm double checking my read on hally just to be safe)
  27. Day 4#4265

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread because i wanted to know if hally's thoughts had...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4258)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4200)
    @Hally - how confident do you feel that zack is town, coming into today? would you bank the game on him being town?
    why was this question even asked

    hally basically says "yes" then you go and write a huge wall calling me a wolf anyway

    feels like it was designed to invoke paranoia
    because i wanted to know if hally's thoughts had changed about you overnight? did you expect me to drop my suspicions of you entirely just because hally said that they feel confident about you being town?

    i feel like this is a question with a very self-evident answer
  28. Day 4#4253

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread why did vanity have to pop in and make one of the...

    why did vanity have to pop in and make one of the wolfiest posts ive ever seen right after i cased zack? lmao
  29. Day 4#4252

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread weren't you the one who was asking me to not give...

    weren't you the one who was asking me to not give up and keep trying just a few pages ago? why are you suddenly saying you want me to die because we lose if i'm town? that's such a defeatist mindset even if it is probably true lmao
  30. Day 4#4251

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread ......what?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#4250)
    i’m honestly tempted to vote spf because neither of zack or hally are doing it, and if spf is a villager then we’ve lost anyway pretty sure

    is this an attempt to pressure hally or zack into voting spf? yes. i mean, i figure one of them is a wolf

    probably out for real now. i’ll be back in around 5 hours.
    ......what?
  31. Day 4#4249

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread yes, but i'm going to double check how you and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4248)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4245)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4242)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4239)
    are you sure that you're just not confirmation biasing yourself into wolfreading me....? i don't understand how you could read the posts i just made and say that i'm "not evaluating things", when all of my points are directly related to stuff that is happening (and has happened) throughout this game. what would a non-narrative spinning version of the posts that i just made even look like?
    i could be confbiasing for sure, and i will admit that i spent the entire night phase thinking you were a wolf and nothing you’ve posted has changed my mind

    it’s really gonna take more to convince me zack is a wolf though than talking about how compatible he is with ladd

    remember that if you’re v i don’t have the information that you have - i don’t know whether ladd is a wolf

    what’s wolfy about zack individually?
    i'll be honest with you - i don't think that zack is very wolfy individually at all, and there have only been a few moments throughout this game where i've raised my eyebrows at him or have felt that he's portraying things in a questionable/agenda-y way. in a world where i don't know that ladd is a wolf, it's entirely possible that i might not have gotten to zack being a wolf

    but step back for a moment and think about this game from my POV - i know that there are 2 wolves within you/zack/ladd/vanity, and i know that ladd is one of them. i could not call you, zack, or vanity "individually wolfy" with a straight face, and that's because all of you have incredibly strong wolfgames. when you're dealing with wolves at that skill level, the best way to catch them (IMO) isn't by reading their individual posts, but by looking at their games from a more holistic perspective (ie: "who have they pushed on?" "who are they pushing on now?" "who do they fit as a team with"?). when i do that, i think that zack looks wolfier than you or vanity

    so, i probably wont be able to convince you that zack is a wolf by pointing to individual posts, because if zack is a wolf, i don't think that it's possible to catch him like that. it needs to be more of a bigger picture thing, and i get why my perspective of knowing that ladd is a wolf makes it easier for me to tinfoil zack in tandem
    so can you point out more stuff like the bolded that gets you to zack wolf over me or vanity?
    yes, but i'm going to double check how you and vanity both interacted with ladd before i get ahead of myself, because it's possible that i'm being too hasty and locking myself into a confirmation biased push

    honestly, my best suggestion to if you're town is just to read through some ISOs and see who looks compatible with who - that feels like the only reliable way to solve the game to me right now
  32. Day 4#4247

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread no, it's because i won't get there on you being a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4244)
    i don’t know why you think it’s zack/ladd over me/ladd

    you acknowledge that ladd is compatible with me but dismiss it because town won’t get there on me, but isn’t it equally true that i won’t get there on zack of he’s a wolf? aren’t both worlds equally hopeless fypov?
    no, it's because i won't get there on you being a wolf today, not because the rest of the thread won't. i find it very difficult to envision you as a wolf and you've made almost zero posts in this game that have genuinely pinged me (which probably doesn't help your paranoia since i know you said you were worried i was townreading you too easily, but that's just how it is)
  33. Day 4#4246

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread yeah i mean, in a world where it is ladd/zack,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4243)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4240)
    also, you know that i respect your reads a lot, and the fact that you have felt so confident about zack being town isn't something that i've been taking lightly. even so, if youre town, then youre clearly wrong somewhere, and we're at a stage of the game where i can't just take: "i think that zack is town" as a reason to back down from wolfreading him or theorizing that he might be partnered with ladd, especially when i think that they fit together reasonably well
    i’m not saying that you should care that i think zack is a villager and regardless of your alignment i don’t expect it to matter to you

    i grant that he could make sense as a wolf from your perspective, i’m just being honest and saying i doubt i will get there on him if he is but you can try to convince me by showing how he’s wolfy and i’ll do my best to consider it
    yeah i mean, in a world where it is ladd/zack, the thought has occurred to me that we probably just lose, because it means that zack has orchestrated his play in this game with the explicit intention to pocket you

    still worth a try, though
  34. Day 4#4245

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i'll be honest with you - i don't think that zack...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4242)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4239)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4238)
    spf, your posts feel more like you’re spinning a narrative than actually evaluating things to me

    if it’s a zack/ladd team i will 100% take the blame for the loss but if that’s the case zack has pocketed me so much that i don’t think i will ever get there and i really apologize if that’s the case
    are you sure that you're just not confirmation biasing yourself into wolfreading me....? i don't understand how you could read the posts i just made and say that i'm "not evaluating things", when all of my points are directly related to stuff that is happening (and has happened) throughout this game. what would a non-narrative spinning version of the posts that i just made even look like?
    i could be confbiasing for sure, and i will admit that i spent the entire night phase thinking you were a wolf and nothing you’ve posted has changed my mind

    it’s really gonna take more to convince me zack is a wolf though than talking about how compatible he is with ladd

    remember that if you’re v i don’t have the information that you have - i don’t know whether ladd is a wolf

    what’s wolfy about zack individually?
    i'll be honest with you - i don't think that zack is very wolfy individually at all, and there have only been a few moments throughout this game where i've raised my eyebrows at him or have felt that he's portraying things in a questionable/agenda-y way. in a world where i don't know that ladd is a wolf, it's entirely possible that i might not have gotten to zack being a wolf

    but step back for a moment and think about this game from my POV - i know that there are 2 wolves within you/zack/ladd/vanity, and i know that ladd is one of them. i could not call you, zack, or vanity "individually wolfy" with a straight face, and that's because all of you have incredibly strong wolfgames. when you're dealing with wolves at that skill level, the best way to catch them (IMO) isn't by reading their individual posts, but by looking at their games from a more holistic perspective (ie: "who have they pushed on?" "who are they pushing on now?" "who do they fit as a team with"?). when i do that, i think that zack looks wolfier than you or vanity

    so, i probably wont be able to convince you that zack is a wolf by pointing to individual posts, because if zack is a wolf, i don't think that it's possible to catch him like that. it needs to be more of a bigger picture thing, and i get why my perspective of knowing that ladd is a wolf makes it easier for me to tinfoil zack in tandem
  35. Day 4#4241

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread and in a world where im wrong about zack/ladd...

    and in a world where im wrong about zack/ladd being a team, i would need to be sold on a vanity/ladd world, which feels slightly more implausible to me than a zack/ladd world (but it's possible i'll change my mind once i do some more reading)

    (alternately, it could just be you/ladd but i've accepted that we probably just lose if we live in that world)
  36. Day 4#4240

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread also, you know that i respect your reads a lot,...

    also, you know that i respect your reads a lot, and the fact that you have felt so confident about zack being town isn't something that i've been taking lightly. even so, if youre town, then youre clearly wrong somewhere, and we're at a stage of the game where i can't just take: "i think that zack is town" as a reason to back down from wolfreading him or theorizing that he might be partnered with ladd, especially when i think that they fit together reasonably well
  37. Day 4#4239

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread are you sure that you're just not confirmation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4238)
    spf, your posts feel more like you’re spinning a narrative than actually evaluating things to me

    if it’s a zack/ladd team i will 100% take the blame for the loss but if that’s the case zack has pocketed me so much that i don’t think i will ever get there and i really apologize if that’s the case
    are you sure that you're just not confirmation biasing yourself into wolfreading me....? i don't understand how you could read the posts i just made and say that i'm "not evaluating things", when all of my points are directly related to stuff that is happening (and has happened) throughout this game. what would a non-narrative spinning version of the posts that i just made even look like?
  38. Day 4#4237

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread also i hope that you have a bit more to say than...

    also i hope that you have a bit more to say than that lol
  39. Day 4#4236

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i think that you're an extremely good wolf and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#4235)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4234)
    and if i pull back and look at this game in the big picture, what reasons do i actually have to townread zack? there are plenty of micro things that i have liked from him (and i have been trusting hally's TR on him for a good portion of this game too), but has he done anything that i don't think he could easily do as a wolf? has he played in a way where it would shock me if he wasn't a villager? not really
    easily?

    I'm sorry to nitpick one word after all those paragraphs but c'mon you don't actually believe that. if you do then idk why you made some of the posts you did yesterday about why you v read me, unless you're suggesting I'm such a masterful wolf that fooling you in such a way was trivial for me
    i think that you're an extremely good wolf and that it wouldn't be particularly difficult for you to fool me, yes

    although i can acknowledge that "easily" might be an overstatement. im sure it would be difficult to wolf in this playerlist regardless of who the wolves actually are
  40. Day 4#4234

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread and if i pull back and look at this game in the...

    and if i pull back and look at this game in the big picture, what reasons do i actually have to townread zack? there are plenty of micro things that i have liked from him (and i have been trusting hally's TR on him for a good portion of this game too), but has he done anything that i don't think he could easily do as a wolf? has he played in a way where it would shock me if he wasn't a villager? not really
  41. Day 4#4233

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread and furthermore, if it isn't zack/ladd, then who...

    and furthermore, if it isn't zack/ladd, then who is it? it's really difficult for me to be sold on a ladd/vanity team, because i know that ladd generally prefers powerwolfing over bussing (if the meta stated on him this game is accurate), and it's hard for me to imagine that he would pounce on vanity in the way that he did if they were partnered together. i'll go back through the ladd/vanity interactions to confirm this, but if my memory is correct, they really don't make that much sense as a team together at all

    it could be ladd/hally - that team "fits" in the sense that hally and ladd haven't really pushed on each other in any meaningful way, but it's just really hard for me to view hally as a wolf in this game? i know that the wolves have played well enough that any team would be surprising at this point, but a hally/ladd team or a vanity/ladd team don't make as much sense to me in my gut as a zack/ladd team does
  42. Day 4#4232

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i might take this back later, but i think it...

    i might take this back later, but i think it might just be zack/ladd, for a couple of primary reasons:

    1. based on ladd's vote on me, i know that the wolves came into today with the intention to win. as such, the wolves strategy today will ultimately align with a world where i end up getting chopped. looking at today through that lens, i think that zack is playing in the most wolf-motivated way

    2. in a world where zack is a wolf, he's spent the majority of this game carefully pocketing hally and trying to keep hally on his good side. now that we're in LYLO, today would be the day that he would "cash in" on his pocketing of hally and get them to misvote with him. this aligns with the fact that zack opened today by specifically calling for ladd/hally/himself to band together and vote out me/vanity (p#4103). it also feels like zack was doing some "table setting" yesterday by bringing up the possibility that me/vanity could be wolves together without really exploring it further (p#3838)

    3. i think that zack/ladd are pretty compatible with each other (though i'm going mostly off of memory here, so feel free to correct me if i'm misrepresenting anything). zack has kept ladd at arms length for the majority of this game and alluded to him possibly being a wolf many times, at some points throughout yesterday saying that his vote was on ladd in spirit and saying that he disliked ladd's specific posts about vanity. i am also reminded of the fact that zack agreed (as far as i could tell) with the specific concerns that i brought up about ladd's progression on vanity

    bearing all of that in mind, the fact that zack has said that he "just doesn't see ladd as a wolf here" and "doesn't see how he got to be such a hot wagon and wolfread in the first place" pings the absolute hell out of me. for one, zack did know exactly why ladd was being wolfread for much of this game, because he specifically agreed that ladd was wolfy at multiple points and even stated his intent to vote him yesterday. even in a world where zack is a villager that authentically decides that ladd is town, why does he go out of his way to act like there aren't any legitimate reasons to wolfread ladd, when he pointed out plenty of them himself yesterday?

    and does zack really come into LYLO and say that he "just won't get" to ladd being a wolf 17 minutes into the day? i would expect zack, as a villager, to use LYLO as an opportunity to refresh and re-evaluate all of his reads, (especially since he was more than OK with apogee being voted yesterday, which should imply to him that his worldview has been off somewhere) but he is uncharacteristically and unnaturally confident about ladd being town before the day has really even started. his confidence that ladd is a villager (and his insistence on shooting down the legitimate reasons to find him wolfy) is really hard for me to swallow

    my memory of ladd's interactions with zack are a little more hazy, but some strange moments from ladd in this game (IE: ladd saying that zack is "borderline confirmed town" due to a super NAI post) makes sense through the lens of ladd wanting to powerwolf and ride with his partner all the way to LYLO

    4. this is a smaller point, but zack's characterization of my d3 feels really dishonest to me, but dishonest in such a way that i'm the only one who will probably even care about it. if zack is a wolf then he doesn't have the burden of representing my posts accurately, because all he needs to do today is push on me and win, which could explain why his points about me today feel a lot more misrepresentative than they have on any other day. i have felt consistently like ladd has been making posts in this game that heavily exaggerate or lie about the things that i've done, and i see a little bit of symmetry between zack/ladd in the way that zack seems to be doing the exact same thing today
  43. Day 4#4210

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread some stuff came up at work so i won't be able to...

    some stuff came up at work so i won't be able to post for a little while, sorry!
  44. Day 4#4200

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread Hally - how confident do you feel that zack is...

    @Hally - how confident do you feel that zack is town, coming into today? would you bank the game on him being town?
  45. Day 4#4196

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread if i had given up, i wouldn't be posting right...

    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#4187)
    last post about this and then i am going to sleep:

    spf has just been proven right, their wolfread from yesterday and from d2 (cause lettuce not forget they thought I was a wolf since d2). How is their reaction as a villager ever to just give up instead of having more fire?


    How are they so demoralized that I have crossed vote with them and that I am a confirmed wolf

    how do they think this game is hopeless when they are clear if they manage to win this 1 vs 1



    i know I am biased but cmn
    if i had given up, i wouldn't be posting right now. i'm obviously a bit demoralized by the fact that i spent almost the entirety of yesterday trying to convince people that you were a wolf and was unable to, and by the fact that zack/hally (and vanity too i think?) have all outright called me a wolf, but that doesn't mean that i've given up on trying (i quite literally said: "i will try" just a couple of posts ago lol)

    so yeah, i am demoralized, and i think anyone should be able to understand why i feel that way from my POV, but that doesn't mean that i've given up on trying or that i "don't have any fire" - this post is another example of how you have been consistently interpreting my posts in an exaggerated/dishonest way (ie: claiming that i didn't evaluate hally/zack/ladd toward the end of yesterday), which is not how you interact with people when youre town
  46. Day 4#4188

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread i was caught off guard by that, but it's still...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#4186)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#4161)
    my gut reaction is that p#4103 from zack is wolfy just because the point about how i was "caught off-guard" by the f7 is really inaccurate and doesn't feel like the genuine reflections of someone who was carefully reading my posts - i don't know how he could realistically say that i "went right back" to clearing vanity/hally/zack when i was questioning them/trying to re-assess my reads on them for the majority of the day

    hell, i even ended yesterday by saying that i was worried that vanity might be a wolf. his analysis lacks nuance and i'm tempted to find that wolfy but i know that i tend to scumread people for reading me for "bad" reasons way too easily
    didn’t you even admit last day that you were caught off guard by people turning on you after panther claimed?
    i was caught off guard by that, but it's still patently false to say that i went right back to clearing you/vanity/zack without considering or tinfoiling you at all

    so the point i took issue with was that, and not: "SPF was caught off guard", but i worded it inaccurately
  47. Day 4#4183

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread anyway ill stop the "woe is me" stuff and start...

    anyway ill stop the "woe is me" stuff and start actually solving now
  48. Day 4#4182

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread this game feels like karma for the vig 10er game...

    this game feels like karma for the vig 10er game where i got amrock killed lol
  49. Day 4#4180

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    Game Thread the most frustrating thing about this game is...

    the most frustrating thing about this game is that ive been consistently right (well.....kind of), but i've lacked the confidence + the ability to articulate my reads in a way that makes people want to listen to them

    like, if i had successfully pushed ladd through yesterday, the game would look incredibly different right now, but he's so slippery and so good at talking his way out of suspicion that it's really hard to nail him on specific points - he kind of reminds me of myself but even scarier lol

    so i dont know, this post is just me rambling but i guess this has been a good learning experience for how i can push my reads more assertively in the future
  50. Day 4#4174

    Thread: Best Flavor 13er

    by staypositivefriend
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    29,655

    Game Thread i should probably not bother responding to posts...

    i should probably not bother responding to posts about why im wolfy because they arent going to be productive and are probably just going to make people wolfread me more

    i think im just going to focus on figuring out ladd's partner so that i can feel a little bit better about myself when i get mischopped
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