Y'all were ending these last couple phases before I even had time to check in after work and pretending to be my kids teacher all day
Type: Posts; User: Imarevenant
Y'all were ending these last couple phases before I even had time to check in after work and pretending to be my kids teacher all day
I protected IC, she wasn't attacked or I'd be dead.
And night results and actions are only a small part of my thoughts so far this phase. There is little differentiating everybody so we have to look much deeper than night results. Look at the content of people's posts and whether or not the person is trying to push the game forward or if their actions are actually working against town interests.
That's why I have it the way I do, Night actions on town part have countermeasures for scum so that has to factor in here, so the basis for my decision making is what the person is doing during the day. It is a difficult balance and you have to choose what to trust.
Early in the game something about Waywards play made your night result confirm what I was already reading. It wasn't the sole basis for why I was willing to eliminate him and trust in your result, it was confirmation. Likewise, Anax's play day 1, the unwarranted backlash on him at the end of day 1, and then how he played his hand day 2 (as well as other peoples reactions to it) made me trust him and the result he had.
Which leads to today, your result is a complete 180 from what I've read of Lukess' play so far this game. I have to make a decision to trust in that result or what I've read. Right now, I'm still trusting in my read. It's early in the phase though so we have time to work through everyone and figure this out, but right now I'm trusting what I've seen for 3 phases. Your result will at least give me a reason to hold off, consider that I may be tunneling, and hear things out; which is why I dropped my vote earlier, but, if the situation stays the way it is moving forward I know where I'm going to feel most comfortable voting at the end of the day.
Can I ask, what do you see when you actually ISO his posts? What am I missing that allows you to move him down your scum list? If I'm wrong here, help me get out of this tunnel. That goes for you as well @lukess1 what can you give to ease at least mine and Leion's uneasiness about you? Please be specific in any reads you want to bring forward.
There were some things about Wayward/Outlaw day 1 and then during his defense I noticed that piqued my interest and caused me to not believe him to be town. I hope I'm right and can use that info to help me when playing games with him in the future. But it may be wishful thinking and I could be full of $%#!. He'd say I'm full of $%#! lol
If phase were ending in an hour I'd still go Lukess at this point. His play is reading to much like he's playing at TWTBW. If I'm wrong that's fine but he's spent more time in thread working against town than for it. I don't know, maybe he has Godfather or Ninja Kill that has given him a sense of security or maybe I need to get out of this tunnel.
Paws and Jaded I'm also interested in.
Paws and Lukess were fellow VT claims. I knew I wasn't VT from the beginning so have kept an eye on them. I feel better about Paws out of the three because I think she's done the work in thread. Jaded could have been a mafia day kill that he's used to skate by and not really contribute since day 1 (as far as I can remember). So he's a huge question to me as well.
I did come in to the day with lots of doubt in EP but he's felt town this phase.
Sorry for the other quotes posts.
Destiny that is why we need to look at whose playing town game in thread but just ability.
Maf could have day kill. They could have ninja kill. We all need to ISO each other and see whose playing toward town goals.
This habit of answering things for each other is hindering to town and catching scum slipping up
Zerg had me night 1 and you night 2 then.
Thinking out loud here.....
Thinking of game set up. We have odd/even investigators, destiny roll cop, so they have a framer x3 to counter. We have Zerg/Anax/Destiny able to track, could we have a ninja kill out there or day kill to counter all that? We have multiple protectors, would we see a day kill or strong arm to counter?
Lots to think through and figure out whose been playing a town game.
I've got everything straight again.
I only get the abilities that haven't been used. Tyche used Dr
I have JK and Bodyguard left. Tyche was the night 1 target, They didn't die from a successful protection.
LAL was broken out when you knew someone was scum and caught up in their own lies and didn't want to waste time arguing in circles.
Contrary to TSS beliefs I don't claim at the drop of a hat.
I was camila in the sense I didn't go out night 1 when asked. Didn't night 2 either. Finally visited an old friend in the graveyard and have a more normal role.
Just thought the town could use a Backup plan this late in the game.
How many wolves do you think are left?
1 or 2. I can see a case either way.
Town focus should be on working through
Lukess (destiny has provided info there)
Darr (I did an ISO and I'm not seeing what Lukess and EP are, his posts seem to be contributing more than many to me. But if he's sus to them I'd like for them to ask him questions rather than just shading him on a list with a vague explanation)
Day 1 - defense of Wayward throwing your full support into the Framer defense Wayward had going.
Day 2 - defense of TSS arguing against Anax, throwing your full support into TSS's Anax is a liar defense.
Day 3 - showing support for MLT's LAL nonsense against Anax. And then the seemingly almost coordinated effort to end the phase a day early.
Might as well start this. All 3 scum in the graveyard were defended by 1 person
If you're town, where should we be looking?
Top 2 most likely to be wolf please.
Because I was asked to provide this.
@Anaxagore - town, yes, sometimes it's good for town to lie.
@Destinylives - town, enough said
@Internet Cupid - town, have felt she's pushed the game forward more than most.
@Darr - town had been asking good questions from beginning of the game and making efforts to solve the game
@zergon - town, much like Darr, had been asking the right questions and making all efforts to solve the game
@Leionhart - town, was a tougher read until claimed night 2 action
@p4rk - town, has been doing his part, role is fakeable but that thought is just tinfoil. I believe he's been acting in best interest of town during the day.
@Jaded - town lean, earned town equity day 1. Unless this is another well played ruse.
@Pawprints - neutral, gut is that she's town. Arguments with IC had me questioning but votes and actions have leaned toward town. Always tough for me to read as her post count is so high I have to ISO frequently to remember all she's said
@EternalPhoenix - neutral, never gives up any info whether town or scum. Has been contributing more as game progresses though
@lukess1 - scum lean, all actions have been against town best interests. Could be attempt at being considered twtbw
@MLT - scum, actions have been wolfy, only popping up when being questioned is wolfy. Most likely to be wolf.
If it someone who is a part of town core then we don't need to know in case it was Wayward that tried to perform faction kill.
I've been sus of MLT from the beginning. Hey play has been to argue and only show up when we have questions for her (her own words) and not contribute much otherwise.
She's my #1 to eliminate today. With EP and Lukess whom I'm giving more of a benefit of doubt than the others just because his play makes no sense to me if he's scum.
Can you expand on the sus of IC? Beyond the difference of opinion regarding day 1 eliminations.
As for the game, I can't see you going so hard on the defenses of TSS and Wayward without them trying to have you tone it down in wolf chat. Doesn't clear you by any means but I think we table the Lukess discussion and explore other avenues.
MLT I would love to see your thoughts beyond the "day 1 Lynch topic." Who do you think we should be looking harder at today?
Anax pretty much confirmed what I had thought was going on with him that phase. Unconventional is the easiest way to describe the play but whatever, it's not fun if we all play the same. TSS' unwillingness to help at all just feels like scum trapped in a corner and not wanting to say anything that could potentially shine a light on a teammate.
As for you, I'm still not the type that will immediately jump to thinking "he must have been framed." But I'm willing to at least explore the possibility. I thought I saw something in your defense that tweaked my interest, I have to go back and re-read that whole situation again when I have some time. For now I'm ok sticking with focus on the TSS/Anax situation.
Holy Hell, quite the read today.
For me this is why I can't simplify the situation to just LAL. Reading through all the interactions I got the sense that Anax is quite the unconventional player. A Hellshock, Machinesxe, Jim Force type who might try these weird town plays. It read to me like he quickly aborted when it appeared that a stronger town role could be outed.
BTW town lying is not unheard of. Arrows, Taker, Mr T, many town players have helped lead town to victories by lying and making things more difficult for scum to figure out.
Anyway, my bigger concern is I just don't see the scum ploy here. A one for one is of no use to scum right now, no matter how big the target may be. The only way I can see this being a scum ploy is if more than 1 member was about to be eliminated and exposed as scum.
Actually, looking at his details he's played 3 games here on MU. So, that Meta isn't really tracking.
TBH I'm tempted to figure out how to get Wayward, Anax, and TSS to 4 votes a piece and let the randomness of plurality take care of things.
But my gut is telling me Anax is weird and got a little too cutesy for his own good and had to back off it for fear of possibly exposing a town protector. TSS has been doing his best to use Anax's mistakes to sow doubt but just because TSS has called himself an open book, that doesn't make that statement true.
So my chopping block for this day phase at this moment is:
Anax (if we don't eliminate TSS then we should eliminate Anax to ensure the situation is settled)
Wayward (I'll ISO soon and pull out some posts that have me concerned beyond just Destiny's result)
Town Reads are:
I still lean toward a Wayward or Lukess elimination but I won't turn a blind eye to the possibility of a framer
Again I'll ask everyone. How do you feel about Waywards defense of himself. Personally I think it's felt off, very different than when EP went for him. Maybe I'm misremembering but I'd like to see others thoughts on this.
Btw I agree with your earlier comment and understand why Destiny came out right away with the info. Some of us like to play aroubd with info a bit more but Destiny seems eager this game and him coming out like that tracks for me with how he came into the game.
That said, the way Destiny played it doesn't make me distrust him and want to defend who he had a result on.
How do you feel about how Wayward had defended himself? Does it feel similar to how he defended himself in the past, particularly against EP and MoT?
I have my thoughts but would like to hear others
That said, I've always been of the mind to play the odds and Eliminate scum positive results when they come and deal with a framing if it actually shows up. That's worked for me most of the time
Would like to hear from IC and others here though.
So i was trying to multi-post on my phone but F that noise. Moved to the laptop but not going back to re-quote the posts.
@zergon - I'm leaning toward the belief that Wayward and Lukess have a higher probability of being Wolf than Town. I get the argument of a framer but there were much more logical targets for framing after the last day phase imo. Anax, Myself, MLT, P4rk; there were a lot of questionable looking people after the phase and I believe Wayward, for all his protesting, did not receive an overabundance of night action last game IIRC.
On the flip side I had Invest last game and steered clear of copping him night 1 just because I wouldn't trust my results 100% if I got a positive scum result. I could honestly run myself in circles with this. ATM with the result and Lukess' hard press on the Wayward Defense makes me lean Wolf on the two of them and I would trust that lean as a result.
Also, comparing this to the situation last game is not apples to apples. Lukess tried to use his Scum Role Cop to convince everyone that he was town aligned. I'm not seeing Destiny trying to leverage this result to prove his town equity, he's flat out saying he has a positive scum result on Wayward and pushing that result.
@WaywardSon - Do you believe Destiny to be scum and that this is a scum ploy? I really want to see your thought process on this. It may or may not alleviate a lot of concern for me. What do you think is going on with Lukess here as well?
But if there are multiple like Tyche then yeah, we might have been dealing with some high powered scum.
1 Night Kill, after the SK was killed suggests maybe just factional kill left.
I'd be happy with sleep if I were scum.
So my "defense" of Anax is just more trying to get a discussion on why it was worth going that route now. I saw Lukess and Paws pushing to Anax, while Anax's first 2 posts after the vigging were literally "Good Job Jaded" and then Unvoting for Jaded. If Anax had come out of that Vig to start painting Jaded as scum after the vigging then yeah, that looks sus. But that wasn't the case at all and I wanted to get a better understanding of why they felt Anax was sus after the result came in. That simple.
I clearly stated now that I found her reverting back to the let's not Lynch day 1 stance to be sus. Seems like a ploy so she can point back to last game and say she is always against day 1 eliminations when town and only for them when scum. Maybe she is that transparent in her play but I've always thought her more clever than that.