Hello everyone, forgive me for being a bit late lol
I'll be catching up on the backlog, but I'll be back to post some more when I'm done.
Type: Posts; User: Relm
Hello everyone, forgive me for being a bit late lol
I'll be catching up on the backlog, but I'll be back to post some more when I'm done.
I'm all caught up now.
Normally in these kinds of rolelists where everyone has a role, there is an annoying strat on my home site where the town leader/a good player leading the sheep will call a rolecall on day 1, and then the game is just over because you can just orchestrate all of the conflicting claims to die.
I would Love to do that here but since the roles mean nothing since any can be of any alignment, scumreading is always a good fallback.
That said, claiming roles (since they don't really matter much anyway unless you're on overtly powerful role) early on is the best way to ensure scum doesn't have claim space later on in case they need to lie there way out of something.
as such I'll go first since my role isn't all that powerful anyway:
I am TRACKER
As for claiming in general, roles aren't revealed when you die, only alignment; this and the fact that one of the roles is just not in the game at all means we're going to have to try extra hard to remove possible roles from the list, that way later on if cornered they can't switch and lie about their roles to fit in against any suspicion against them.
I only claimed because my role is weak. Shielding is Doc's job.
Maybe it's just meta from my community, powerful roles are often always claimed early so protective roles have known targets and town has something to go on off the bat. In this rolelist however I know that strategy doesn't work.
I'll defend it as a relatively harmless strat in the grand scheme of things, but aye, perhaps I should have waited a few days before claiming so forgive me for that.
What is CHS? I've not heard that term.
N2/N4, so the worse of the two.
Stronger roles claiming:
+ Voyeur, Doctor, and Watcher all have obvious targets to protect
+ Mafia would need to be very brave to attack a strong target with all support and protective roles in game unless said protective/support roles are apart of mafia.
- gives Mafia a target for after TS and TP's are gone
Midling roles claiming:
+ Gives the rest obvious targets (cops, tracker, Jailor if they aren't needed for prot/scumhunting)
- Gives mafia easier targets, but will take them a while to clean through
Lower power roles claiming:
+ It's a -1 to the rng element at worst, If a stronger role claims (like what's already been done) then it tends to be good overall.
+ No mafia is going to kill a low town over the rng or midling roles, giving TS and TP more freedom to go after midling/powerful roles
I can only imagine the observation channel on the discord rn lol
No one can really fake claim effectively until later on after people have died and roles are taken beyond where we can get cc's.
That's my point, it's like scum has a permanent Janitor. If one of them gets caught for making an odd visit, RB shenanigans, etc, then they can just claim off of their real one to fit however they need against the accusation. Role cop is more likely to check non claimers to try and find powerful towns or TPs than they are to check people who've already claimed.
That vote looks scum as hell
##Vote Vote Shawnad
I don't get your point because it's universally common for a strong role to ask for a TP or atleast TS on them to deter mafia... that's just common practice. You are really reaching for this vote rn.
Not automatically scummy, but it strikes me as odd that Swedish hasn’t posted in 200+ posts and only reappears as soon as he’s mentioned as maybe scummy.
>shows up when shawnad is pushed into a corner and voted up
>+ called out for odd vote 200+ posts ago
>says shawnad is pretty townie
>votes M2H who’s showing up as being pretty townie
Looks like maf collusion, smells like maf collusion, probably is maf collusion.
As much as a vehemently disagree with yogs posts, I don’t think he’s scum.
Shawna has like 2-3 votes on her and is screaming to the heavens to try and get them off lol
The only scum lean on his list is the one who called him out for his original vote lol
While onlyA is strong town lean, I do think yog was just trolling, it was early dp1, $#@!posters gonna $#@!post. Doesn’t mean I particularly approve of it, even if it gave me a chuckle.
Shawna the least you could do is claim your role.
I’m personally subscribed to the shawnad + Swedish theory; yogs been a bit of an ass but his posts are entirely going after you as opposed to defending shawnad who I definitely think is scum, if shawnad isn’t scum, then I’ll be more on board with the yog theory.
Yog May I ask your reasoning for shawnad being townie on your list? I’ll admit maybe I’m hitting the nail so hard it’s splitting the board in half but i can’t see how she’s town.
M2H made a post saying it was odd how Swedish overexplained his throwaway vote when he and shawnad voted much earlier in the game.
Swedish stopped posting at post #111 and then reappeared the the moment after being mentioned as making a slightly scummy post.
Swedish then defended shawnad (who’s calling Batman scum for saying tp on me as a powerful townie and then overdefended herself)
Swedish has been making very odd posts since.
That’s the short of it atleast.
Forgive me for vanishing without saying anything (I see I was nearly lynched as is), I told Lissa that I'd be busy on the 10th-12th and tried to switch games, but I stuck with this one. I left somewhere around page 8. Give me a while to read up on what I missed and I'll make a post responding to anything against me/anything I note as particularly scummy/etc. If I have to go again I'll make the post sometime in the morning (EST) when I get home from work.
Though I will admit and apologize for being completely wrong about Shawnad, and therefore the rest of my accusations have little basis.
If anyone has anything that they would just overtly want me to address in my post, @ me and I'll be sure to include it.
This re-read is sucking the life out of me and I'm only at page 12
I refresh this page every few moments to see if there's anything going on here while I'm reading the backlog, seems I chose a nice quiet hour lol
please do excuse as I make some filler posts every once in a while to make up the minimum 10 just in case (so far this would be three I think)
I keep seeing ISO used a lot, it would be a big help if one of you could tell me what it means since I've never seen it before
(still around post #625 as far as backread goes, I forgot how long it takes to do this when people get in the swing of things and make big posts)
>"oh yeah I think this person might be scum"
>200 messages later
>"changed my mind"
>200 messages later
I'm reading the vote scramble rn, towards the end of it
It is a miracle I survived this .-.
I'm in the U.S., my work schedule is just graveyard shifts after graveyard shifts.
I'm nearing page 35, so mega-post incoming
add like 10-15 minutes to that, OnlyA, I just turned page to 33 ;-;
As for my absense, personal medical things I'm not going to go into.
As for going forward; I've pretty much guaranteed I lose popular vote & veteran vote lol, so I'm just going to continue as if it's a normal game and try my best to win it from here without any stipulations
btw I'm sorry in advance, I've been writing this for like 3 hours at 1 in the morning while working and I honestly could not be paid to format this. If something feels odd, keep in mind I wrote all of this in the order I read it
Here are my responses to any posts while I was gone, most of these will be responding to stuff against me, but if I see anything that just HAS to be called out, I will comment on it.
(btw if there is any post/thing/etc you want me to specifically respond to, @ me)
I mostly play in discord mafia games, and in those we tend to have 2-3 good players and a bunch of sheep with a few alright players mixed in. Usually the game is just someone good proving they are town, followed by them orchestrating the town; often this leads to lining up mislynches so I'm a bit less prone against it. Day one I was very zealous because shawnad's "tp on me = scum" thing was just so off to me I was certain she was mafia, and therefore anyone over defending her has a fairly decent shot of also being scum. Now in hindsight, knowing shawnad was town, I pushed a bit too harshly and got on a one track mindset which obscured my judgement. Also, the "I really wonder how the discord is reacting" thing was mostly me just pointing to the crowd since I was actually curious if they were discussing if the all claim strategy Batman & I had merit or if it was just a bad play (and the fact that during that, like 5 people were arguing lol)
About the 13 minutes thing: I read the first 80ish posts, made my first post, skimmed the next 100+ since most of it felt like $#@!posting/arguing over absolutely pointless things (like yogs joke)/etc. That's why I didn't really adress any of it, simply because I didn't see anything worth really responding to & because I skimmed a big portion of it, and then I wrote my second post where I said I was caught up. Bolding since I'm told this is the main point against me, and if thirteen minutes of a reread and then a powerplay post is all people have against me then I'm fairly confident I'm surviving today.
The claim vs don't claim thing is debatable (but as someone else said, if we keep talking about mechanics "I'm gonna dayvig myself")
The coaching claim is you going pretty hard on Batman more than me tbh. My thread flow presense being inherently inverse of yours (I didn't even comment on you vs batman at all save when I addressed your posts when they drifted into my spat with Shawnad; the rest of your argument I pretty much tuned out as it felt like bitching over previous games moreso than doing anything of worth in this game) is kind of odd since I made claims on people before your comments on it, so you were always the one who came after.
And no, I'm not backing down on this lol, however it would be appreciated if we could save this debate for later for aforementioned "dayvig" prevention.
#444 through #448
Has nothing to do with me, but this was by far my favourite part of the reread lol so thanks
Yeah... I'm not proud of that post; it was a bad, rushed argument I made because I knew I had to go at like any moment and that I wouldn't be back for a while. I've explained why I went so hard on swedish originally, I still hold his beetlejuicing as sudden and odd, but I used it at the time to jump at anything even 1% scummy to make a mountain out of an ant hill.
I put this post here when I got to it and wrote a quick defense of myself and then apologized, but the more of the day phase I read the more I realized how mean and petty that would be when they're already out of the game and I was ultimately wrong, so I'm rewriting this to just briefly say sorry to Shawnad for that whole thing and to admit I went overboard.
I don't actually mind this post as I know people later on did; I think the thing that people looked at it oddly for was how drive by it felt when I kind of see where they were coming from and the buildup to it.
slightly addressed earlier in my comment on post #424, but to elaborate a bit, no it was moreso about starting a day one rolecall. I can happily link any of you to the discord games I come from where we do day 1 rolecalls all the time even when the roles are not important lol
Let's all be honest, 'tp on me' is 50% a call for someone to actually protect you and 50% scaring off mafia because tp has a fairly good chance of WIFOMing mafia to protect someone else. If someone thinks Batman is in a iron fortress, it doesn't matter if it's actually a dirt fortress because the mafia won't attack it unless they're damned sure they can hit him (which would usually mean that the TP's are also mafia in this rolelist).
I would much rather have a situation where our stronger roles have an ere of protection whether real or not (depending on if TP's WIFOM), than have one where they don't know who the strong townies are and we lose a strong townie seemingly at random because TP's couldn't protect them and they couldn't even build up a dirt fortress to scare anyone off. That is why the everyone claim strategy has some merit, as for other setups where you know that some roles are specific alignments, day 1 rolecalls are amazing; and here they are still good.
Yeah that's pretty sketchy on my part, however I did make a mistake I think. I thought you were the one who called out Swedish's original vote when it might have been RE or someone else, my bad though. As for reading you as townie, it was mostly because of how you were approaching subjects and because I was so deadlocked on shawnad I got a bit sloppy in my reads. The post was like 50 or so before mine against Owl, and that's the post I was always referencing when I mentioned the beetlejuicing of Swedish. I still don't think this warranted a vote though since in very far hindsight it looks kind of bandwaggon-y.
While I do find M2H's vote a bit unnecessary and bandwaggony, I still think there are better lynches to be found elsewhere. My primary defense of M2h would be that their posts have always been wordy, the rest I'd probably side with swedish on here.
The only thing I looked at before my first post today was the day 2 who got lynched/died stuff because I just clicked the notif to get back to the thread. I forget who got lynched in my place by random (though I'm sure I'll find out who it was when I see it get close in votes) I remember that the person who got lynched in my stead was mafia, with a 5-5 tied vote, which really makes me think that there are some scum in the bandwagon on me from day 1 and I think there is merit at ISO (now that I know what that means, thanks shad) reading their posts a bit closer concerning their reasonings for voting me.
neither, it was a mix of internal '7 for 7 fallacy' and me being overzealous about it
okay well played with the images, I actually laughed a bit and got caught by my manager (luckily I have absolutely nothing to do else I'd have been in deep water) lol
as for the claim/stay alive mindset, I explained it as being a bit of culture shock and a bit of me just being entirely for roleclaims under 99% of circumstances.
I take back my remark about Shad making most of the funniest posts in the game, now it's about 50/50
I disagree with literally everything said here, and we're reading the exact same thing. To quote yogsloth, "No. No no no no. God. No. You are not allowed to do this."
Absolutely perfect timing
I think Yog is making the same mistake I did in trying to connect him, shawnad, and swedish all at the same time here
Never. Vote. When. You. Haven't. Read.
This is just asking to be pocketed
edited around ~1200, I change my mind, Mantis is playing very well. I've got no idea what they are though.
Though I don't see it as an auto scum lock on, I agree it felt like they weren't fully on board with their own vote on me.
the slight is not lost on me ;-;
#1259 & #1300
@SwedishSkumbag I understand it was EOD scramble for waggon supremecy, but can I ask you to clarify this vote on me some? Primarily because I find everything else you've done to be townie, but for vote reading purposes I'm curious about it.
Bless you for allowing me to live another day. And you weren't wrong lol (again, sorry for the 0 headsup for leaving)
The Lord bless rng. more on vote reading this later.
Day 2: (most of this is covered elsewhere so don't expect this section to be as lengthy)
Shawnad repeatedly said she thought I was town (and was partially responsible for saving me), so I'm curious why you stuck me at the bottom in this list too?
Man, you do not give up
putting this here for quick reference as I agree that the wolves were either not there at EOD to save Nimbus or were on my train.
Bussing is a topic no one ever agrees on in maf, but just to throw my hat out there i'm personally in the never ever bus no matter what unless it directly leads to a win persuation.
Beacuse everyone disagrees on bussing and there is no concensus on it, there could have been a bus by 1 maf member, but considering any single person on there switching their votes to me would have assured nimbus' life being saved, I doubt it.
I am N2-N4 tracker (If I was anything else I'd have missed the deadline to do anything anyway from being away, so I lucked out on this too)
explained the misquote, I did not hop on Batman's plan (I kind of skimmed through that, I saw that he mentioned claims though), and no, I did not sheep your vote on shawnad lol no sheep pushes the waggon harder than the herder
this is pretty lazy and I don't like it at all
This is some top tier WIFOM
40/60 again, @yogsloth gotta pick up your game man
#most of page 32
I don't get the suspiscion on Shad here, she was one of the first to flip to Nimbus meanwhile there were plenty of other trains (unless you think the team of maf is me, nimbus, shad, and orange), if Shad was maf she wouldn't have voted me the entire day phase, and then he wouldn't have switched off of my train onto another mafia unless you think some seriously 4dWIFOM happened.
why did I have to show up just after this ;-; well played SS, well played
Batman (I honestly find his posts having good intent for town, take it with a grain of salt since I was the only one to agree with him and therefore I might be a foot in the pocket on this one... however his vote in day one leads me to believe he's going for some seriously pyyrhic pocketing)
Swedish (In hindsight, I was wrong on every charge; their posts have read townie for the last few hundred; only one who kept pinging me (every time for info/clarification/etc) which is just a town thing to do
Shad (no one would have blamed her if she hadn't switched her vote off of me, and she switched it to a maf member wayyyyyyy before the bandwagon got going on him vs me)
RE1031 (pushed nimbus very early on, voted him too)
slight town lean:
OrangeP47 (would be full town but made some iffy posts like his "maybe we lynch'em maybe we don't, who knows?" thing with batman and later on in the thousands that make me put him almost neutral)
OnlyA (that crusade against yog's joke was pretty bad but that made me feel he was town; his deadlock on batman is still annoying though)
Scare (that read-train around post ~550 leads me to believe they're being ernest in catching up more than any of the other non posters who showed up after I left)
Yog (tone without shawnad-lynch goggles in hindsight is very townie, pushing others for their reads, etc.)
Mantis (mostly gut)
Neutral/don't have an opinion on/I've got no clue:
Capage (completely derailed the thread around #800)
Santygrass (lhf, seems scummy though)
Prismo (I'll admit it's mostly gut on this one)
M2H #601-606 kind of made a good argument so far as vote reading and reasoning goes. + vote train on me when the other vote train was a mafia lynch makes me 100% feel that any maf had their votes on me unless one of them WIFOM'd it out 4d chess style. I'll ISO them in the morning for a full and proper post on why I put her as proper scum.
I'm fine being lynched since it clears up what the trains were, but I'm fairly confident that Batman can just get my alignment tonight anyway.
The only person I'm confident is scum is M2H.
Oh, and from reading everything, I can safely say that if you completely ignore every single prismo post in the game, you lose nothing of value.
Damnit SS, you keep making perfectly timed posts.
I'm going to post my response to some things in my catchup from last night
Then I'm going to respond to SS's questions
Then I'll stay for interactions
If there is time I'll try and do a vote analysis of Day 1/response to Yog on the matter
#1958 (Yog asking that if I was lynched and shown town, who would be cleared as town also)
this is getting it's own post as well
Second question, the last few sentences brought up ISOing the people who voted me towards the end of the waggon, I agreed with that and explained my reasoning for it.
Third question, that was a joke. Throughout the posts I was making comments about how the funniest posts were coming from Yog and Shad. started out 40/60 to shad, then yog tied it, then shad got it to 70/30 by the end. Just a bit of banter really.
After this post you make a post asking me to explain my slightly scum read of Santygrass... which I've kind of reversed from reading this day phase. Day one his posts always felt like "I'll make a post about it later" or a whole lot of nothing, but today he's easily been one of my favourite posters as far as content and reads go, so if I remade my list rn I'd probably put him in neutral or slightly town lean.
I'll be here until the day ends, so by all means let me know if there's anything I need to clarify/any opinions from me you want on people/etc.
@SwedishSkumbag you wanted to interact so pinging you specifically.
That aside, Prismo's posts aren't helpful at all and could be skipped without losing anything all game (he and RE have been playing by themselves for the most part, though RE has drifted back towards the main sphere)
I have no strong opinions on anyone else vote wise.
On the Rabbit Doubt site I play on, there's a bit of a site-local thing about lynching innactives/wolves being gentlemen and killing the innactives as well until it's just actives in the game, but I don't think that's applicable here or in any champs game really.
"I don't think everybody agro on her is automatically scummy though, but people who were definitely deserve a second look. I guess that's a next level activity I've not had the time or capacity to do yet."
Maybe I interpreted this differently, but it's what I was responding to
Batman - would have to be doing some deep 4dchess level pocketing tactics on me.
Swedish - trying harder than anyone else to actually get answers, generally helpful, hasn't done anything to warrant scum
Shad - They had their vote on me most of the day and before nimbus' train got started they switched votes over to them. If they were maf, no one would have blamed them or felt it odd if they had just kept their vote on me and I died and flipped town.
RE - slight gut on this one, but their posts have been very townie, especially their side arguments with people.
slight town lean:
OrangeP47 - had a few foot in the water posts during my backread, kind of felt like a parrot sometimes, elsewise the reads were good + vote waggoned the mafia pretty early on yesterday
OnlyA - that crusade against yog's joke was pretty bad but that made me feel he was town; his mindset seems to be that if he feels someone is town, he'll look at it exclusively from that perspective, which I can't see a mafia person going as far with as he has (as that usually gets people lynched)
Scare - out of all of the 0 posters in day 1 who showed up after I left, they seemed like the most earnest in their catching up (look around post 550 if I recall)
Yog - tone without shawnad-lynch goggles in hindsight is very townie, pushing others for their reads, etc.
Santygrass - reasoning above
Mantis - Posts are content driven and make him seem like he has a bigger forum presence than his post count would imply, but I'm not too confident in them either way. Other than M2H this is the person I want to ISO the most tbh.
Capage - reasoning is above
Prismo - reasoning above
M2H - reasoning above
If anyone needs me for anything else @ me and I'll check back every few minutes. Until then I'm going to be working on a vote analysis of yesterday (surprised more people haven't done one really)