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    Completed Hello everyone, forgive me for being a bit late...

    Hello everyone, forgive me for being a bit late lol

    I'll be catching up on the backlog, but I'll be back to post some more when I'm done.
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    Completed I'm all caught up now. Normally in these kinds...

    I'm all caught up now.

    Normally in these kinds of rolelists where everyone has a role, there is an annoying strat on my home site where the town leader/a good player leading the sheep will call a rolecall on day 1, and then the game is just over because you can just orchestrate all of the conflicting claims to die.

    I would Love to do that here but since the roles mean nothing since any can be of any alignment, scumreading is always a good fallback.

    That said, claiming roles (since they don't really matter much anyway unless you're on overtly powerful role) early on is the best way to ensure scum doesn't have claim space later on in case they need to lie there way out of something.

    as such I'll go first since my role isn't all that powerful anyway:

    I am TRACKER
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    Completed Aye, and I won't until Day 3, but from my...

    Quote Originally Posted by M2H (#221)
    and idrt that claiming tracker right now is a good idea, you don't even have any results.
    Aye, and I won't until Day 3, but from my perspective I assure you scum are more likely to kill a random townie hoping to strike oil than taking out a tracker. So this move is already better for me than previous.

    As for claiming in general, roles aren't revealed when you die, only alignment; this and the fact that one of the roles is just not in the game at all means we're going to have to try extra hard to remove possible roles from the list, that way later on if cornered they can't switch and lie about their roles to fit in against any suspicion against them.
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    Completed I only claimed because my role is weak. Shielding...

    Part of being good town is shielding more important roles, though.
    I only claimed because my role is weak. Shielding is Doc's job.

    Maybe it's just meta from my community, powerful roles are often always claimed early so protective roles have known targets and town has something to go on off the bat. In this rolelist however I know that strategy doesn't work.
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    Completed I'll defend it as a relatively harmless strat in...

    I'll defend it as a relatively harmless strat in the grand scheme of things, but aye, perhaps I should have waited a few days before claiming so forgive me for that.

    It's like a case of CHS
    What is CHS? I've not heard that term.
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    Completed N2/N4, so the worse of the two.

    Which tracker are you??
    N2/N4, so the worse of the two.
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    Completed Yeah that sounds accurate. My community is has an...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeP47 (#242)



    Champs Hero Syndrome. It's like playing as if your win condition is to live longer = thus your person time to shine, rather than the group win condition of working together to find the scum.
    Yeah that sounds accurate. My community is has an unfortunate player:sheep ratio, so it's always left to like 3-5 players to do all of the playmaking. I'll work in conjunction with the meta of this site and work towards the exclusive betterment of the whole from here out.
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    Completed Welp Doc has a heal target now atleast.

    Quote Originally Posted by BATMAN (#247)
    Quote Originally Posted by RE1031 (#229)
    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#219)
    I'm all caught up now.

    Normally in these kinds of rolelists where everyone has a role, there is an annoying strat on my home site where the town leader/a good player leading the sheep will call a rolecall on day 1, and then the game is just over because you can just orchestrate all of the conflicting claims to die.

    I would Love to do that here but since the roles mean nothing since any can be of any alignment, scumreading is always a good fallback.

    That said, claiming roles (since they don't really matter much anyway unless you're on overtly powerful role) early on is the best way to ensure scum doesn't have claim space later on in case they need to lie there way out of something.

    as such I'll go first since my role isn't all that powerful anyway:

    I am TRACKER
    I don't think this is automatically scummy, but I don't think it's the right play.

    If the less powerful roles claim, would that not give scum an idea of who the powerful roles are?

    Scum also already have one spare role to claim, so this method probably wouldn't be too effective against preventing fake claims.

    It's probably slightly +town, to be honest. At least something you believe to be beneficial to town.

    (I wouldn't want anyone else to claim though, unless they're about to get lynched.)
    No I think we should all claim.
    Hardclaim cop there. I’m one of the most important roles. Now you can all claim

    Welp Doc has a heal target now atleast.
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    Completed Stronger roles claiming: + Voyeur, Doctor, and...

    Stronger roles claiming:
    + Voyeur, Doctor, and Watcher all have obvious targets to protect
    + Mafia would need to be very brave to attack a strong target with all support and protective roles in game unless said protective/support roles are apart of mafia.
    - gives Mafia a target for after TS and TP's are gone

    Midling roles claiming:
    + Gives the rest obvious targets (cops, tracker, Jailor if they aren't needed for prot/scumhunting)
    - Gives mafia easier targets, but will take them a while to clean through

    Lower power roles claiming:
    + It's a -1 to the rng element at worst, If a stronger role claims (like what's already been done) then it tends to be good overall.
    + No mafia is going to kill a low town over the rng or midling roles, giving TS and TP more freedom to go after midling/powerful roles
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    Completed I can only imagine the observation channel on the...

    I can only imagine the observation channel on the discord rn lol
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    Completed No one can really fake claim effectively until...

    No one can really fake claim effectively until later on after people have died and roles are taken beyond where we can get cc's.
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    Completed That's my point, it's like scum has a permanent...

    That's my point, it's like scum has a permanent Janitor. If one of them gets caught for making an odd visit, RB shenanigans, etc, then they can just claim off of their real one to fit however they need against the accusation. Role cop is more likely to check non claimers to try and find powerful towns or TPs than they are to check people who've already claimed.
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    Completed >says the guy acting scummy

    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#280)
    You know what driving a mechanics/role-hunting narrative doesn't do?

    It doesn't hunt scummy people and lynch them.
    >says the guy acting scummy
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    Completed That vote looks scum as hell Vote Shawnad

    That vote looks scum as hell

    ##Vote Vote Shawnad
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    Completed shawnad2006 (take two) that vote looks scummy

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#284)
    Quote Originally Posted by BATMAN (#278)
    Quote Originally Posted by M2H (#254)
    Quote Originally Posted by BATMAN (#250)
    Not true. This is so mistakenly that I won’t reply.
    His claim was great. Wolves mad
    I mean I don't see how you think his claim is good for town rn? Mafia just won't kill him and will instead shoot somebody else which gives them a better chance of hitting the aforementioned stronger roles ie; cop, doc, jailkeep, vigi.
    My god is this amateur hour? You know we have tracker, doc and watchers,?
    I claim cop. We doc and watch me
    Now what????
    Come at me .
    I dare you wolves
    And if you are Scum, you now have doc and watcher wasting their time.

    ##Vote BATMAN
    ##Vote shawnad2006

    (take two) that vote looks scummy
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    Completed So it's scummy because he's scum?

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#299)
    Quote Originally Posted by M2H (#292)
    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#284)
    Quote Originally Posted by BATMAN (#278)
    My god is this amateur hour? You know we have tracker, doc and watchers,?
    I claim cop. We doc and watch me
    Now what????
    Come at me .
    I dare you wolves
    And if you are Scum, you now have doc and watcher wasting their time.

    ##Vote BATMAN
    ok why is the fact that Batman asked for protection and to be watched the tipping point for you?
    Because it came off to me as scum getting Doc and Watcher to waste their N1 actions watching scum. And it came off that way because of the tone in which he said it "is this amateur hour?" It felt like a bully move to try and ensure they would do it.
    So it's scummy because he's scum?
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    Completed I don't get your point because it's universally...

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#303)
    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#300)
    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#299)
    Quote Originally Posted by M2H (#292)
    ok why is the fact that Batman asked for protection and to be watched the tipping point for you?
    Because it came off to me as scum getting Doc and Watcher to waste their N1 actions watching scum. And it came off that way because of the tone in which he said it "is this amateur hour?" It felt like a bully move to try and ensure they would do it.
    So it's scummy because he's scum?
    He's pressuring roles into using those roles to protect him.

    Are you seriously not seeing my point?!
    I find that hard to believe.
    Whether you think it's a good point or not though, that's debatable.

    I don't get your point because it's universally common for a strong role to ask for a TP or atleast TS on them to deter mafia... that's just common practice. You are really reaching for this vote rn.
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    Completed “TP on me” is common everywhere else it seems,...

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#318)
    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#309)
    Quote Originally Posted by shawnad2006 (#303)
    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#300)
    So it's scummy because he's scum?
    He's pressuring roles into using those roles to protect him.

    Are you seriously not seeing my point?!
    I find that hard to believe.
    Whether you think it's a good point or not though, that's debatable.

    I don't get your point because it's universally common for a strong role to ask for a TP or atleast TS on them to deter mafia... that's just common practice. You are really reaching for this vote rn.
    First of all, I don't know what common practice is anywhere except my home sight.

    But it is not common practice there for someone to claim Cop and then say "Protect me Doc!" Like that's a duh statement that doesn't need to be said.

    But anyway, my point is not that he said it. It's that he implied it would be idiotic and amateur of Doc and Watcher to do anything but watch him.
    And I that extra aggression/insistence is what pinged me. Like he's trying to ensure those roles pick him.
    It came off to me like a scum that is now thinking "Great. Now I just pressuring Doc and watcher to be on me, so now we don't need to worry about them."
    Is that right? I don't freaking know.
    But it's how it felt to me, and I'm struggling to see why that's soooo shocking apparently.
    But could just be culture stuff.
    “TP on me” is common everywhere else it seems, strange that it’s not on yours. That aside, calling someone scum and voting them for a sensible “duh” statement by your own admission is reaching, and now you’re over-defending yourself now that you have pressure on you.
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    Completed Not automatically scummy, but it strikes me as...

    Not automatically scummy, but it strikes me as odd that Swedish hasn’t posted in 200+ posts and only reappears as soon as he’s mentioned as maybe scummy.
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    Completed >shows up when shawnad is pushed into a corner...

    >shows up when shawnad is pushed into a corner and voted up
    >+ called out for odd vote 200+ posts ago
    >says shawnad is pretty townie
    >votes M2H who’s showing up as being pretty townie

    Looks like maf collusion, smells like maf collusion, probably is maf collusion.
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    Completed As much as a vehemently disagree with yogs posts,...

    As much as a vehemently disagree with yogs posts, I don’t think he’s scum.
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    Completed Shawna has like 2-3 votes on her and is screaming...

    Shawna has like 2-3 votes on her and is screaming to the heavens to try and get them off lol
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    Completed The only scum lean on his list is the one who...

    The only scum lean on his list is the one who called him out for his original vote lol
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    Completed While onlyA is strong town lean, I do think yog...

    While onlyA is strong town lean, I do think yog was just trolling, it was early dp1, $#@!posters gonna $#@!post. Doesn’t mean I particularly approve of it, even if it gave me a chuckle.
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    Completed Shawna the least you could do is claim your role.

    Shawna the least you could do is claim your role.
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    Completed I’m personally subscribed to the shawnad +...

    I’m personally subscribed to the shawnad + Swedish theory; yogs been a bit of an ass but his posts are entirely going after you as opposed to defending shawnad who I definitely think is scum, if shawnad isn’t scum, then I’ll be more on board with the yog theory.
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    Completed Yog May I ask your reasoning for shawnad being...

    Yog May I ask your reasoning for shawnad being townie on your list? I’ll admit maybe I’m hitting the nail so hard it’s splitting the board in half but i can’t see how she’s town.
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    Completed OrangeP47 M2H made a post saying it was odd how...

    @OrangeP47
    M2H made a post saying it was odd how Swedish overexplained his throwaway vote when he and shawnad voted much earlier in the game.

    Swedish stopped posting at post #111 and then reappeared the the moment after being mentioned as making a slightly scummy post.

    Swedish then defended shawnad (who’s calling Batman scum for saying tp on me as a powerful townie and then overdefended herself)

    Swedish has been making very odd posts since.

    That’s the short of it atleast.
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    Completed Forgive me for vanishing without saying anything...

    Forgive me for vanishing without saying anything (I see I was nearly lynched as is), I told Lissa that I'd be busy on the 10th-12th and tried to switch games, but I stuck with this one. I left somewhere around page 8. Give me a while to read up on what I missed and I'll make a post responding to anything against me/anything I note as particularly scummy/etc. If I have to go again I'll make the post sometime in the morning (EST) when I get home from work.

    Though I will admit and apologize for being completely wrong about Shawnad, and therefore the rest of my accusations have little basis.

    If anyone has anything that they would just overtly want me to address in my post, @ me and I'll be sure to include it.
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    Completed This re-read is sucking the life out of me and...

    This re-read is sucking the life out of me and I'm only at page 12
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    Completed I refresh this page every few moments to see if...

    I refresh this page every few moments to see if there's anything going on here while I'm reading the backlog, seems I chose a nice quiet hour lol

    please do excuse as I make some filler posts every once in a while to make up the minimum 10 just in case (so far this would be three I think)
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    Completed I keep seeing ISO used a lot, it would be a big...

    I keep seeing ISO used a lot, it would be a big help if one of you could tell me what it means since I've never seen it before
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    Completed (still around post #625 as far as backread goes,...

    (still around post #625 as far as backread goes, I forgot how long it takes to do this when people get in the swing of things and make big posts)
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    Completed I've already stated I'm saving it all for one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#1743)
    Two and a half hours without a game-related thought after reading the entire thread in 15 minutes D1 is ... something.

    Anyway goodnight.
    I've already stated I'm saving it all for one giant post. This way I can edit it as I go rather than:
    >"oh yeah I think this person might be scum"
    >200 messages later
    >"changed my mind"
    >200 messages later
    >"but maybe..."
    etc
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    Completed I'm reading the vote scramble rn, towards the end...

    I'm reading the vote scramble rn, towards the end of it

    It is a miracle I survived this .-.
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    Completed I'm in the U.S., my work schedule is just...

    I'm in the U.S., my work schedule is just graveyard shifts after graveyard shifts.

    I'm nearing page 35, so mega-post incoming
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    Completed add like 10-15 minutes to that, OnlyA, I just...

    add like 10-15 minutes to that, OnlyA, I just turned page to 33 ;-;
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    Completed As for my absense, personal medical things I'm...

    As for my absense, personal medical things I'm not going to go into.
    As for going forward; I've pretty much guaranteed I lose popular vote & veteran vote lol, so I'm just going to continue as if it's a normal game and try my best to win it from here without any stipulations

    btw I'm sorry in advance, I've been writing this for like 3 hours at 1 in the morning while working and I honestly could not be paid to format this. If something feels odd, keep in mind I wrote all of this in the order I read it



    Here are my responses to any posts while I was gone, most of these will be responding to stuff against me, but if I see anything that just HAS to be called out, I will comment on it.

    (btw if there is any post/thing/etc you want me to specifically respond to, @ me)

    #410
    I mostly play in discord mafia games, and in those we tend to have 2-3 good players and a bunch of sheep with a few alright players mixed in. Usually the game is just someone good proving they are town, followed by them orchestrating the town; often this leads to lining up mislynches so I'm a bit less prone against it. Day one I was very zealous because shawnad's "tp on me = scum" thing was just so off to me I was certain she was mafia, and therefore anyone over defending her has a fairly decent shot of also being scum. Now in hindsight, knowing shawnad was town, I pushed a bit too harshly and got on a one track mindset which obscured my judgement. Also, the "I really wonder how the discord is reacting" thing was mostly me just pointing to the crowd since I was actually curious if they were discussing if the all claim strategy Batman & I had merit or if it was just a bad play (and the fact that during that, like 5 people were arguing lol)

    #424
    About the 13 minutes thing: I read the first 80ish posts, made my first post, skimmed the next 100+ since most of it felt like $#@!posting/arguing over absolutely pointless things (like yogs joke)/etc. That's why I didn't really adress any of it, simply because I didn't see anything worth really responding to & because I skimmed a big portion of it, and then I wrote my second post where I said I was caught up. Bolding since I'm told this is the main point against me, and if thirteen minutes of a reread and then a powerplay post is all people have against me then I'm fairly confident I'm surviving today.
    The claim vs don't claim thing is debatable (but as someone else said, if we keep talking about mechanics "I'm gonna dayvig myself")
    The coaching claim is you going pretty hard on Batman more than me tbh. My thread flow presense being inherently inverse of yours (I didn't even comment on you vs batman at all save when I addressed your posts when they drifted into my spat with Shawnad; the rest of your argument I pretty much tuned out as it felt like bitching over previous games moreso than doing anything of worth in this game) is kind of odd since I made claims on people before your comments on it, so you were always the one who came after.
    And no, I'm not backing down on this lol, however it would be appreciated if we could save this debate for later for aforementioned "dayvig" prevention.

    #444 through #448
    Has nothing to do with me, but this was by far my favourite part of the reread lol so thanks

    #453
    Yeah... I'm not proud of that post; it was a bad, rushed argument I made because I knew I had to go at like any moment and that I wouldn't be back for a while. I've explained why I went so hard on swedish originally, I still hold his beetlejuicing as sudden and odd, but I used it at the time to jump at anything even 1% scummy to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

    #466
    I put this post here when I got to it and wrote a quick defense of myself and then apologized, but the more of the day phase I read the more I realized how mean and petty that would be when they're already out of the game and I was ultimately wrong, so I'm rewriting this to just briefly say sorry to Shawnad for that whole thing and to admit I went overboard.

    #524
    I don't actually mind this post as I know people later on did; I think the thing that people looked at it oddly for was how drive by it felt when I kind of see where they were coming from and the buildup to it.

    #560
    slightly addressed earlier in my comment on post #424, but to elaborate a bit, no it was moreso about starting a day one rolecall. I can happily link any of you to the discord games I come from where we do day 1 rolecalls all the time even when the roles are not important lol

    #561
    Let's all be honest, 'tp on me' is 50% a call for someone to actually protect you and 50% scaring off mafia because tp has a fairly good chance of WIFOMing mafia to protect someone else. If someone thinks Batman is in a iron fortress, it doesn't matter if it's actually a dirt fortress because the mafia won't attack it unless they're damned sure they can hit him (which would usually mean that the TP's are also mafia in this rolelist).
    I would much rather have a situation where our stronger roles have an ere of protection whether real or not (depending on if TP's WIFOM), than have one where they don't know who the strong townies are and we lose a strong townie seemingly at random because TP's couldn't protect them and they couldn't even build up a dirt fortress to scare anyone off. That is why the everyone claim strategy has some merit, as for other setups where you know that some roles are specific alignments, day 1 rolecalls are amazing; and here they are still good.

    #596
    Yeah that's pretty sketchy on my part, however I did make a mistake I think. I thought you were the one who called out Swedish's original vote when it might have been RE or someone else, my bad though. As for reading you as townie, it was mostly because of how you were approaching subjects and because I was so deadlocked on shawnad I got a bit sloppy in my reads. The post was like 50 or so before mine against Owl, and that's the post I was always referencing when I mentioned the beetlejuicing of Swedish. I still don't think this warranted a vote though since in very far hindsight it looks kind of bandwaggon-y.

    #601-603
    While I do find M2H's vote a bit unnecessary and bandwaggony, I still think there are better lynches to be found elsewhere. My primary defense of M2h would be that their posts have always been wordy, the rest I'd probably side with swedish on here.

    #675
    The only thing I looked at before my first post today was the day 2 who got lynched/died stuff because I just clicked the notif to get back to the thread. I forget who got lynched in my place by random (though I'm sure I'll find out who it was when I see it get close in votes) I remember that the person who got lynched in my stead was mafia, with a 5-5 tied vote, which really makes me think that there are some scum in the bandwagon on me from day 1 and I think there is merit at ISO (now that I know what that means, thanks shad) reading their posts a bit closer concerning their reasonings for voting me.

    #713
    neither, it was a mix of internal '7 for 7 fallacy' and me being overzealous about it

    #716-717
    okay well played with the images, I actually laughed a bit and got caught by my manager (luckily I have absolutely nothing to do else I'd have been in deep water) lol
    as for the claim/stay alive mindset, I explained it as being a bit of culture shock and a bit of me just being entirely for roleclaims under 99% of circumstances.

    #793
    I take back my remark about Shad making most of the funniest posts in the game, now it's about 50/50

    #797
    I disagree with literally everything said here, and we're reading the exact same thing. To quote yogsloth, "No. No no no no. God. No. You are not allowed to do this."

    #845-846
    Absolutely perfect timing

    #869
    I think Yog is making the same mistake I did in trying to connect him, shawnad, and swedish all at the same time here

    #940
    Never. Vote. When. You. Haven't. Read.
    This is just asking to be pocketed
    edited around ~1200, I change my mind, Mantis is playing very well. I've got no idea what they are though.

    #1001
    Though I don't see it as an auto scum lock on, I agree it felt like they weren't fully on board with their own vote on me.

    #1033
    the slight is not lost on me ;-;

    #1259 & #1300
    @SwedishSkumbag I understand it was EOD scramble for waggon supremecy, but can I ask you to clarify this vote on me some? Primarily because I find everything else you've done to be townie, but for vote reading purposes I'm curious about it.

    #1274
    Bless you for allowing me to live another day. And you weren't wrong lol (again, sorry for the 0 headsup for leaving)

    #1306
    The Lord bless rng. more on vote reading this later.


    Day 2: (most of this is covered elsewhere so don't expect this section to be as lengthy)

    #1336
    Shawnad repeatedly said she thought I was town (and was partially responsible for saving me), so I'm curious why you stuck me at the bottom in this list too?

    #1352
    Man, you do not give up

    #1373
    putting this here for quick reference as I agree that the wolves were either not there at EOD to save Nimbus or were on my train.

    #1429
    Bussing is a topic no one ever agrees on in maf, but just to throw my hat out there i'm personally in the never ever bus no matter what unless it directly leads to a win persuation.
    Beacuse everyone disagrees on bussing and there is no concensus on it, there could have been a bus by 1 maf member, but considering any single person on there switching their votes to me would have assured nimbus' life being saved, I doubt it.

    #1437-38
    I am N2-N4 tracker (If I was anything else I'd have missed the deadline to do anything anyway from being away, so I lucked out on this too)

    #1461
    explained the misquote, I did not hop on Batman's plan (I kind of skimmed through that, I saw that he mentioned claims though), and no, I did not sheep your vote on shawnad lol no sheep pushes the waggon harder than the herder

    #1473
    this is pretty lazy and I don't like it at all

    #1474
    What?

    #1481
    This is some top tier WIFOM

    #1483
    40/60 again, @yogsloth gotta pick up your game man

    #most of page 32
    I don't get the suspiscion on Shad here, she was one of the first to flip to Nimbus meanwhile there were plenty of other trains (unless you think the team of maf is me, nimbus, shad, and orange), if Shad was maf she wouldn't have voted me the entire day phase, and then he wouldn't have switched off of my train onto another mafia unless you think some seriously 4dWIFOM happened.

    #1632
    30/70

    #1677
    nope

    #1678
    why did I have to show up just after this ;-; well played SS, well played






    Town:
    Batman (I honestly find his posts having good intent for town, take it with a grain of salt since I was the only one to agree with him and therefore I might be a foot in the pocket on this one... however his vote in day one leads me to believe he's going for some seriously pyyrhic pocketing)
    Swedish (In hindsight, I was wrong on every charge; their posts have read townie for the last few hundred; only one who kept pinging me (every time for info/clarification/etc) which is just a town thing to do
    Shad (no one would have blamed her if she hadn't switched her vote off of me, and she switched it to a maf member wayyyyyyy before the bandwagon got going on him vs me)
    RE1031 (pushed nimbus very early on, voted him too)

    slight town lean:
    OrangeP47 (would be full town but made some iffy posts like his "maybe we lynch'em maybe we don't, who knows?" thing with batman and later on in the thousands that make me put him almost neutral)
    OnlyA (that crusade against yog's joke was pretty bad but that made me feel he was town; his deadlock on batman is still annoying though)
    Scare (that read-train around post ~550 leads me to believe they're being ernest in catching up more than any of the other non posters who showed up after I left)
    Yog (tone without shawnad-lynch goggles in hindsight is very townie, pushing others for their reads, etc.)
    Mantis (mostly gut)

    Neutral/don't have an opinion on/I've got no clue:
    Capage (completely derailed the thread around #800)

    slightly scummy:
    Santygrass (lhf, seems scummy though)
    Prismo (I'll admit it's mostly gut on this one)

    Scum:
    M2H #601-606 kind of made a good argument so far as vote reading and reasoning goes. + vote train on me when the other vote train was a mafia lynch makes me 100% feel that any maf had their votes on me unless one of them WIFOM'd it out 4d chess style. I'll ISO them in the morning for a full and proper post on why I put her as proper scum.
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    Completed I'm fine being lynched since it clears up what...

    I'm fine being lynched since it clears up what the trains were, but I'm fairly confident that Batman can just get my alignment tonight anyway.

    The only person I'm confident is scum is M2H.
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    Completed Oh, and from reading everything, I can safely say...

    Oh, and from reading everything, I can safely say that if you completely ignore every single prismo post in the game, you lose nothing of value.
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    Completed Damnit SS, you keep making perfectly timed posts.

    Damnit SS, you keep making perfectly timed posts.
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    Completed I'm going to post my response to some things in...

    I'm going to post my response to some things in my catchup from last night

    Then I'm going to respond to SS's questions

    Then I'll stay for interactions

    If there is time I'll try and do a vote analysis of Day 1/response to Yog on the matter





    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1813)
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#1812)
    it is unquestionably work. The actual tone and content didn't do much for me... it just seemed like one big apology and attempt to deflect attention... but clearly it took a lot of effort. I hope we have a lot more of Relm today so that we can really dig into her reads and sort her correctly... but i will be highly interested in everyone else's read of her.
    I had the thought too, but...

    Basically all of the quotes she brought up was related to herself. It didn't feel like her main goal of the post was to actually vacuum the thread for alignments. That's a kinda big problem for me rn. There was the list at the end, but i don't feel like it was basically at all connected to the rest of the WALL. Which is weird.

    Also not finding any towniness in her reads at the end either. So even though i appreciate the effort, i don't see the effort being directed in the way i'd expect from a townie who suddenly have a lot of time to dedicate to the thread.

    Disagree?
    I saw the five votes on me and that I survived by a 50% chance, so most of my responses were defensive. I wrote the list at the end while going through the posts, so many thing I wrote there I erased as I went and put my new thoughts.


    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#1828)

    Hate this Town read on Shad. It's factually incorrect. However, if Relm is Town, it's a perspective error that wouldn't be too hard to understand.

    I also don't understand why there's only one name on the scum list, and she immediately gives what sounds like town reads of that player.

    The rest is pretty "don't rock the boat"

    Not a great look, but given this gamestate, I'm not sure what would be
    I wrote the megapost early in the morning, by the time I got to the end I felt like I'd implode if I went back and edited the entire thing, I put M2H at neutral around post 600 and I don't think I edited my scum take on her until I took a look at it around #1600 when I shuffled my scumreads around again, I may have just overlooked changing it; that said I'll be making a post about M2H later on so you can get my thoughts on her best from that. As for the town read on Shad, if you accept that I am town, then Shad is almost certainly Town.

    #1958 (Yog asking that if I was lynched and shown town, who would be cleared as town also)
    this is getting it's own post as well


    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#2070)
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#2066)
    I think the Prismo wagon is terrible.
    i definetly agree that out of the 3 topwagons, the prismo-wagon has the ickiest buildup.

    ---


    @Relm if youre town its absolutely crucial youre around for some realtime interaction. more-so than doing a full m2h iso.
    I'll hold off on doing the ISO on M2H until the next day phase then.
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    Completed The first question, I wrote those two statements...

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1806)
    Hey, welcome back @Relm . I picked out some questions that i got from your wall:

    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#1772)
    I don't actually mind this post as I know people later on did; I think the thing that people looked at it oddly for was how drive by it felt when I kind of see where they were coming from and the buildup to it.
    Though I don't see it as an auto scum lock on, I agree it felt like they weren't fully on board with their own vote on me.
    These 2 quotes don't line up very well to me regarding your stance on Shad's vote on you. Do you "not mind it", or do you think it's scummy, just not an "auto scum lock" amount of it?

    I feel like there's a big difference in how you're referring to his vote there


    #675 The only thing I looked at before my first post today was the day 2 who got lynched/died stuff because I just clicked the notif to get back to the thread. I forget who got lynched in my place by random (though I'm sure I'll find out who it was when I see it get close in votes) I remember that the person who got lynched in my stead was mafia, with a 5-5 tied vote, which really makes me think that there are some scum in the bandwagon on me from day 1 and I think there is merit at ISO (now that I know what that means, thanks shad) reading their posts a bit closer concerning their reasonings for voting me.
    What actually prompted this kind of response in the orange-post you're responding to here, Relm? It just sticks out as very unrelated.

    #1483
    40/60 again, @yogsloth gotta pick up your game man
    Could you explain what this means and what you're referring to?



    ------------------------



    My answers to your 2 questions:

    @SwedishSkumbag I understand it was EOD scramble for waggon supremecy, but can I ask you to clarify this vote on me some?
    I was pretty okay with both your and Nimbus wagon, but there were 2 reasons i yelled for Shawn to swap to you:

    -Firstly i felt the people on your wagon looked townier than the people on Nimbus as a whole.
    opinions on Relm wagon at the time: Knew i was town, yog lock town, Scare almost lock town at the time, Mantis very towny EoD to me and then M2H was a questionmark
    opinions on Nimbus wagon at the time: Shawn lock town, very small townlean on Bat, RE had a EoD that had pinged me, questionmarks on Shad and Orange.

    -Secondly Yog had a pretty strong scumread on you, and i pretty much knew him to be town, while i know myself that my strength as a player lays in finding towns, not scum. So i decided to trust him, hence the "trust in yog" comment towards the end.
    The first question, I wrote those two statements at vastly different times. The first was when they originally voted me, the second was when people were discussing it sometime towards the end of my read through. That said, I see nothing wrong with the two statements. I found the driveby aspect not scummy because she had a clear buildup to that point; whereas I kind of felt that it was still lazy in the post itself, but not nearly enough to make it auto scum like people were trying to claim it was.

    Second question, the last few sentences brought up ISOing the people who voted me towards the end of the waggon, I agreed with that and explained my reasoning for it.

    Third question, that was a joke. Throughout the posts I was making comments about how the funniest posts were coming from Yog and Shad. started out 40/60 to shad, then yog tied it, then shad got it to 70/30 by the end. Just a bit of banter really.


    After this post you make a post asking me to explain my slightly scum read of Santygrass... which I've kind of reversed from reading this day phase. Day one his posts always felt like "I'll make a post about it later" or a whole lot of nothing, but today he's easily been one of my favourite posters as far as content and reads go, so if I remade my list rn I'd probably put him in neutral or slightly town lean.
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    Completed I'll be here until the day ends, so by all means...

    I'll be here until the day ends, so by all means let me know if there's anything I need to clarify/any opinions from me you want on people/etc.

    @SwedishSkumbag you wanted to interact so pinging you specifically.
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    Completed M2H, but I know that's not going to happen with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#2115)
    Relm

    Who do you want to lynch?
    M2H, but I know that's not going to happen with the current votes. It's 60% vote reading, 40% some of the shady posts they had around #590 and in day 2 where they were really hammering home a defense of their vote day 1 that didn't make any sense to me at all really.

    That aside, Prismo's posts aren't helpful at all and could be skipped without losing anything all game (he and RE have been playing by themselves for the most part, though RE has drifted back towards the main sphere)

    I have no strong opinions on anyone else vote wise.
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    Completed On the Rabbit Doubt site I play on, there's a bit...

    On the Rabbit Doubt site I play on, there's a bit of a site-local thing about lynching innactives/wolves being gentlemen and killing the innactives as well until it's just actives in the game, but I don't think that's applicable here or in any champs game really.
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    Completed "I don't think everybody agro on her is...

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#2117)
    Quote Originally Posted by Relm (#2112)
    Second question, the last few sentences brought up ISOing the people who voted me towards the end of the waggon, I agreed with that and explained my reasoning for it.
    Here's the post you responded to, right?:

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeP47 (#675)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#673)
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeP47 (#669)
    I don't have enough scum leads given how productive D1 has been.
    Wanna expand on this one? In which ways has it felt productive?

    The recent discussion has done a lot to convince me too.
    Expand on this one too with regards to M2.

    --

    Also talk about your Relm read and in the world where you know she's town, what does that mean for other players?
    On the day being productive: A lot of stuff has happened. Sometimes you get people wanting no lynch D1, or not even wanting to talk because PRs haven't done anything yet. I don't like that kind of play, I think any kind of conversation can be a starter for scum hunting. In that regard, we've done well. It's just a shame I have so little to show for it.

    On M2H discussion, kinda tied in with the Relm thing: I think what Relm did was unneeded, but comes from a town mindset. The point about M2H's lack of progression really resonated with me (your post 601 I believe). I know it's not the best or most exciting, but I guess when you asked for thoughts on that, I can just say "agree". To get a full web of associates with Relm though I'd have to wait for the caffeine to kick in. I don't think everybody agro on her is automatically scummy though, but people who were definitely deserve a second look. I guess that's a next level activity I've not had the time or capacity to do yet.


    I don't really see what you're talking about still

    "I don't think everybody agro on her is automatically scummy though, but people who were definitely deserve a second look. I guess that's a next level activity I've not had the time or capacity to do yet."

    Maybe I interpreted this differently, but it's what I was responding to
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    Completed From what I've seen he's only made one good post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#2120)
    Would love to hear your thoughts on Capage since he's your counter wagon.
    From what I've seen he's only made one good post so far and it was mostly repeating what other people had said before him, I don't particularly like it. His pink text colour is annoying + he derailed an entire 2 pages. Even if town, would not be a town I miss.
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    Completed yogsloth Town: Batman - would have to be...

    @yogsloth


    Town:
    Batman - would have to be doing some deep 4dchess level pocketing tactics on me.
    Swedish - trying harder than anyone else to actually get answers, generally helpful, hasn't done anything to warrant scum
    Shad - They had their vote on me most of the day and before nimbus' train got started they switched votes over to them. If they were maf, no one would have blamed them or felt it odd if they had just kept their vote on me and I died and flipped town.

    Probable town:
    RE - slight gut on this one, but their posts have been very townie, especially their side arguments with people.

    slight town lean:
    OrangeP47 - had a few foot in the water posts during my backread, kind of felt like a parrot sometimes, elsewise the reads were good + vote waggoned the mafia pretty early on yesterday
    OnlyA - that crusade against yog's joke was pretty bad but that made me feel he was town; his mindset seems to be that if he feels someone is town, he'll look at it exclusively from that perspective, which I can't see a mafia person going as far with as he has (as that usually gets people lynched)
    Scare - out of all of the 0 posters in day 1 who showed up after I left, they seemed like the most earnest in their catching up (look around post 550 if I recall)
    Yog - tone without shawnad-lynch goggles in hindsight is very townie, pushing others for their reads, etc.

    lean town:
    Santygrass - reasoning above


    Neutral:
    Mantis - Posts are content driven and make him seem like he has a bigger forum presence than his post count would imply, but I'm not too confident in them either way. Other than M2H this is the person I want to ISO the most tbh.
    Capage - reasoning is above

    slightly scummy:
    Prismo - reasoning above

    Scum:
    M2H - reasoning above
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    Completed If anyone needs me for anything else @ me and...

    If anyone needs me for anything else @ me and I'll check back every few minutes. Until then I'm going to be working on a vote analysis of yesterday (surprised more people haven't done one really)
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