Kajot looking pretty townie on an ISO read, has no problem throwing out reads and thoughts. I didn’t see it though, did you explain your Vivax read that you said you were going to “later”?
@Inawordyes could you give me a read list with only names?
I'm struggling to read your post, and would save me some energy to know your TLDR's on people before I start reading your semi-walls.
Read the walls Wisdom, the readslist isn’t a replacement for them
I still have yet to be able to do an ISO on the latter half of players, was gonna try post-work yesterday and IRL took priority, so Risi, sOH and yourself I still have yet to properly read. The others are all the low-poster/low-impact players and I probably need to reread their ISOs now for the ones who have posted since I looked like Jinjo, but as of now nothing’s really standing out either way for the people in the null
Thanks! Kinda weird that you have both me and Ri as null but weh. Also that you have a strong town read on Kajot but a strong wolf read on Penguin. Feels like v!Kajot -> v!Penguin.
I'm very hyped for a vibe tell case on Val!
Nothing you or Ri have posted has resonated with me strongly enough to get a read on you yet reading it live. In an ISO read I’m sure I could have me up with something more definitive, but until that you’re kinda stuck without anything. I realize that there’s a back and forth between you two but that doesn’t really concern me much workout the context an ISO would provide, and I’m not in a position to be able to deep dive into high postcount ISOs rn
I don’t have any strong wolf reads atm, just leans. Kajot is pretty solidly town based on their effort, but Penguin I have a scumlean on for the way they handled Mac towards SoD, which I talked about yesterday morning IIRC. Mac I thought really towntold in that convo as well, which is why I also have him as strong town
As it stands right now, I could probably come up with any number of excuses why I still believe this, but they're all decently obvious - I'm perma-stuck in the D1 mindset (where I tend to just sit back and be hands-off until I have info; very tough habit to break for what's effective an always-D1 game in the sense of having 0 info outside my own role). I was also gone for 3 days IRL, half of last day, half of this day; so I really haven't been here to progress my reads in general
Also most of the playerlist is annoying me this game, and Kajot is one of the only people who hasn't fit that criteria, so I'm feeling decently spiteful and want them to be town
With all seriousness, this has not been my game, and it's frustrating when I get pushed for not putting in enough effort but then constantly get immediate pushback once I try to put it in. If I'm going to be seen as a problem to be dealt with regardless, then I really don't have the WIM to try and solve if it only makes things worse for me while I'm really struggling to figure out how to actually play a flipless game when zero info is the bane of my existance in mafia games
uhhh sorry if I upset you or anything. I think that read on P#368 sounds fair enough fwiw but I don't think that's like. a reason to note vote her like over a week later. Maybe you can take a look at her iso again if you want to get back into the game somehow?
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1660266221
(#3814)
Btw, do you ever sleep vivax? i swear i see you no matter what time it is.
Always been kinda insomniac, sometimes it's thought cinema. Lately it's strange happenstances.
I get enough sleep to be comfortable but thanks for showing concern.
Ah I see. Sleep's been very random for me recently. You don't have much appetite for a Kajot wagon rn?
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1660266221
(#3814)
Btw, do you ever sleep vivax? i swear i see you no matter what time it is.
Always been kinda insomniac, sometimes it's thought cinema. Lately it's strange happenstances.
I get enough sleep to be comfortable but thanks for showing concern.
Ah I see. Sleep's been very random for me recently. You don't have much appetite for a Kajot wagon rn?
@Grackaroni who are the wolves and why and how many wolves have died
I think everyone now should start trying to answer "how many wolves have died" and trying to figure out what kind of game we're in. Regardless of accuracy this is something which will cause world building and thinking of the game state that I think will help us be less in a state of disarray.
It'd also help us understand where people are at with "wolf controlled wagon/day" and etc.
I'm not sure myself, will need to think about it.
bler i dunno. I think the fact that there seemed to be no doc dodge d1 and there was one on d2 kinda points mat w, wis v, but it's like. Grasping at straws, and if I had to take a wild guess I would say cybeast more likely to have been v.
But if Cybeast was W, I'm not even sure why people even be looking at me. If Cybeast flips W here I am squinting pretty hard at rising for shaming me for voting him.
I have like two ideas I have been thinking about, one is kinda based on mat wolf in which case he fits together with iawy and gg. GG had that interesting towncore of me and iawy yesterday that kinda pinged me cause it seemed somewhat arbitrary. And the other one is, more independently from that,
I just think Kajot might be a wolf. I already talked a little what I found suspicious about them before, but on top of that the way she defended Mat during day1 seemed kinda weak to me (P#324 P#427 P#890 P#1675 P#1892) and then they also townread Wisdom and both of these players ended up getting elimmed with not that much resistance from Kajot, which makes me think those townreads were maybe not sincere. And her doing that unvoting/voting thing on Wisdom at EOD just seemed like theatre to me. (And I also disapprove of her trying to kill me smh).
Btw if mat's w i think both jinjo and vivax are unlikely to be based on spew. So idk I guess some mech info would be helpful there lmao.
I'm starting to realize that Kajot is trying to breadcrumb all of the roles.
what do you think of inawordyes, who has the lead wagon with two (!) votes?
What do you think of him currently @Garden Gnome ?
I see that he's AFK and is expecting to return tonight (Wednesday). I'd like to see what he does today before I say much of anything. He's kind of moved to null for me. I think that his actions today are really important in forming an opinion about him.
I'm gonna be a bit busy today as well but checking in from time to time
One thing about IH, the last and only time I've played a non-turbo game with him he was different. He was giving town and scumreads more easily whereas here he's more carefully choosing the things he wants to post about. I'm not sure if that's a negative thing and he has evolved his play since.
Maybe IH can give his take on it too
I was extremely wrong in that game (and in particular my treatment of Ivy was regrettable). I mostly try to not make games horrible for others since then if I can help it... I don't recall making a lot of snap reads later on in a game anymore.
On the following pages there is only one snapread I could make:
Originally Posted by The Penguin1659987279
(#3177)
Originally Posted by a07netfriend1659987213
(#3176)
Originally Posted by The Penguin1659987134
(#3174)
I disagree but whatever.
You think consolidating on him is realistic? Can you list everyone who's interested in voting Grackaroni today then?
I should probably just vote top wagon before leaving ##Vote Wisdom
Also, it does seem likely that this would cause one witch dieing. I'm just awful at triggering the gun
I do not understand this @Kajot. I mean I do but wisdom had 5 votes and i had 2 you could have easily voted me there imo, especially since you announced to set an alarm? There is some kind of signalling power when you leave a vote on someone and people who just take a quick glance at VC think that Wisdom is more consensus what way. What made you pick Wisdom there over me?
Originally Posted by a07netfriend1659929742
(#3022)
Sorry for browbeating you, but can you explain exactly why you previously town leaned Inawordyes and why you decided to reevaluate him? I'm going to need you to be quite specific about exactly what was going through your mind or I may end up voting you
Sure.
At the point I liked that he seemed to care about his reads and seems to be evolving them. Seemed genuinely conflicted about Matrim's alignment, even when he had some very strange takes
All Mafia needs to do is chop a townie, it doesn’t matter who, someone needs to die and as long as it isn’t them they’re golden. So if multiple people are talking around Penguin (as in, they’re passively scumreading him but not actively following through in the form of a vote), then if Penguin was town, it’s the easiest thing in the world for mafia to latch onto that and vote for Penguin to further an obviously-false narrative that multiple people are already buying into
The fact that people are content to say “Penguin seems scummy” from a distance without actually doing anything about it is the part that doesn’t add up
This was also a good observation imo. Not always correct but there often is a certain resistance to scumyeets while there isn't to townyeets.
Another thing was that weird argument with fairy he got so obsessed with I couldn't wrap my head around mafia making that up, so I thought probably town.
I decided to reevaluate him cause others got townier, for example sohijk, jinjo (i think jinjo is never partnered with Mat), and ultimately maybe even Cybeast too.
Originally Posted by a07netfriend1659921564
(#2973)
Not having read it yet, I am going to predict that InstantHammer's iso is very scummy based on the last 2 pages
tbh I thought the reason/way the reevaluated on me was towny but the original read was really bad and especially lacking any kind of analysis so I could see them as a wolf
that's my towntell tho.
not gonna buy in any world that reading the first 5 posts of my ISO and going "ya I can wolf read those next" is towny. At best it's just ignorable cause of other stuff
Originally Posted by a07netfriend1659921564
(#2973)
Not having read it yet, I am going to predict that InstantHammer's iso is very scummy based on the last 2 pages
tbh I thought the reason/way the reevaluated on me was towny but the original read was really bad and especially lacking any kind of analysis so I could see them as a wolf
cybeast? if cybeast, why? thoughts on cybeast recent posts?
latests posts look slightly >rand v on tone ig for the defeatist attitude. I still think that running up other people is more scum than town motivated but ok.
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1659920554
(#2939)
Pretty sure if wagons are like this I always vote to save Wisdom here btw.
why do u think wisdom is town??? searched thru ur iso and saw nothing
I haven't read the newest stuff yet but her iso seemed fine. Feels to me like she genuinely cares about her reads and consults others about them in a way that seems non-agenda-ey.
Liked her early progression on Kajot, she had a very early townread and then it looked like she realised it might not be that easy while still sticking to her guns.
It's not that you're pretending to like her in this context. (I realized that could have been read after I posted it, which is kind of rude, my bad!) Just that the interaction felt weird, kind of off both sides to me?
And you don't think that's because we're two players with lots of experience that likes to call each other town and then end up being wrong ~every time the other one is a wolf?
I stand by my town read but I'm absolutely open to be wrong at this point.
What makes you lose confidence in your reads?
RVS ended and I re-evaluated some to not exaggerate reads for the sake of getting the game started. I still have you and Grack as town leans but I'm more confident in Mac and probably Risiingq as well being town.
Like, I love to play with you -> I want to keep you alive -> I want you to be town. But from a realistic standpoint you did fool me both times I've played against you in modern times, and it's hard to ignore that. I still think your "I'm openwitching uwu" post was town indicative though. I guess I'm just paranoid :P
I have no idea what you are saying here? What felt entirely scummy? It wasn't your game entrance that pinged me at all tho, I think Mac harped on that but it seemed fine to me.
Just looked at that game and compared it to myself, finding myself to lack the certain something, mostly just the ability to make a few confident mafia/town reads, everything more the same null/town. Might have been there at the start but after a while I certainly didn't have much drive, close to a lack of interest which there still is cuz well, idk where to go and the odds finding something new. I am waiting for the point of the game where I'm going to do something.
Oh okay. I guess I just don't understand how one compares "a game to oneself" lol.
Do you have a solid townread on Cybeast? Like one you would be carrying through f3 if needed?
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1659752115
(#2211)
##Vote Kajot
lol.
As innocent as it seems, you gotta explain yourself.
You seemed lost in a way that caught my attention. I didn't understand why you seemed to be waffling on some slots and especially listening to me. It reminded me of a turbo game where you said like "ok lead the way IH!" after I said you're town and i was like wtf lol in that game
also @Wisdom because you said that this is town @Kajot.
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1659755647
(#2244)
Originally Posted by Garden Gnome1659755434
(#2241)
Originally Posted by InstantHammer1659755306
(#2240)
would be shocked if these flipped mafia:
risiinq
seem townie enough but this is probably not clean:
fairy
wisdom
iaway
a07
some townie elements:
Grackaroni
sohijk
jinjo
penguin
null:
Garden Gnome
Valentine
Kajot (shouldn't be actually in here ig, i'm just not sure where I'm at with her.)
Cybeast
do you have any in the lean scum category?
Nah I just go with PoE, my scumreads are generally terrible. I have a bad gut feeling about Kajot, she seemed somewhat lost yesterday, that didn't seem like town her.
What do you think about her?
Fwiw I started reading D1 in the other witch hunt game and just based on that, felt entirely scummy. Town had a more relaxed vibe overall, mafia super aware of each other and seemingly more in the need to deliver something. I feel like when I enter games I make it less freeflowy by overthinking reads too early
I have no idea what you are saying here? What felt entirely scummy? It wasn't your game entrance that pinged me at all tho, I think Mac harped on that but it seemed fine to me.
Originally Posted by Matrims Dice1659664822
(#2180)
Oh if roles aren’t revealed and maybe you’ll switch (lol)
I’m the one that can survive NKs on even or odd nights but oh well
K bye gl gl
I wonder, if matrim was a wolf would he fake claim a stronger PR? Like maybe just claim holy, why not. Probably not unlikely a wolf would be told by wolf chat to, but I'm not sure if it's likely enough I'd say he's town for not
Mmh right. Wolves would claim to survive or just don't claim, if not asked for it way before the flip to give their mates claim space.
I think there is a point to be made for maf just claiming "normally" for antispew reasons? It's flipless after all.
You post that Mac is protecting wolf cubs and then there's no follow up. You say that Penguin is open wolfing and don't post anything about it. You post about Fairy being pro-town and then post something about not want to be on the same wagon as fairy.
I haven't seen any read that makes me think you truly believe it, yet you express them all very strongly. I've gotten the sense that you've been trying to pocket a few players, and I think it's time for you to go.
If Grackaroni is w this is like an inverse pocket, seems towny to me. Am I mistaken?
I mean I think Grack is towny independently, but I don't really get how you reached that conclusion, that is one way to pocket people? I think Happy did something similar to Julia in his last game. Do you know Grack and Vivax?
Originally Posted by Matrims Dice1659664822
(#2180)
Oh if roles aren’t revealed and maybe you’ll switch (lol)
I’m the one that can survive NKs on even or odd nights but oh well
K bye gl gl
I wonder, if matrim was a wolf would he fake claim a stronger PR? Like maybe just claim holy, why not. Probably not unlikely a wolf would be told by wolf chat to, but I'm not sure if it's likely enough I'd say he's town for not
Not sure, because it would 100% out them? Maybe he gets away for it for the day but then 2 people basically have a free flip to work with. Kinda think he was more likely to be wolf because of the Mac kill and Mac wasn't protected apparently but eh. I can see town!mat not protecting Mac but then wolves still had to take that risk.
wolves have 2 kills per night I'm pretty sure, just btw, for people looking at night kills
Ah, derp
Speaking of it
(Vivax)
The whole priest check me tonight thing is odd. There's multiple posts hinting at it.
Possibly a witch role that gains a benefit from being visited? I don't know if it's within the scope of witch roles.
This was the least convincing derp so far as idk, everyone knows villagers and witch roles are the same?
But eh. Not the greatest indicator for someone to be witch
Fiiiine I'll just hardclaim then since my role is borderline useless if the Priest doesn't wanna check me. I'm Fanatic.
I think I believe the claim, but not sure if it's AI. Getting an extra live while you are in a top spot to get yeeted and wasting a cop check is something I can easily see from wolf perspective. From town perspective the play checks out too though.
I skimmed your iso for a quick sanity check if ur just spewing bull$%#! (like ducky in anni :woweedog and also sheer energy levels. I'm not willing to dig out the mega tinfoil here.
@risiinq-
so your townread on me is only based off of sheer energy levels and me making sense?
thats enough for me to be top townread?
(btw i dont mean to antagonize but i would like to understand it more :P)
Yes. I think that's actually somewhat hard to do. And also I just don't wanna megaread into slots a lot who will probably be nightkilled anyway so I'm cutting some corners. (I had Mac in the same bucket but he's dead now so.)
I'll come back to the thread when I had the time to read all the posts since SOD.
and also sheer energy levels. I'm not willing to dig out the mega tinfoil here.
Originally Posted by sOHiJK
