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    Completed no, depends on what len/shr want here

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#757)
    i like how jav very specifically supports the version of the plan that leads with a miselim, rather than the inverse

    any issue with voting ara then vigging me, egg?
    no, depends on what len/shr want here
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    Completed i think perhaps one of the biggest things about...

    i think perhaps one of the biggest things about my scumread on amy is how absolutely resokute she is on the hammy townread like what hammy said himself in that one post i super townread him for
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    Completed ily amy

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    Completed i think vote amy vig ara is a fine plan here?...

    i think vote amy vig ara is a fine plan here? that way unless it's exactly me/ssr or me/hammy or hammy/ssr from common scumreads here we get at least one if not both wolves
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    Completed i'm probs tunneling but feels like freudian slip

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#728)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#727)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#714)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#709)
    If I'm feeling len and jav town, where do you think I go if not in you/ara?
    i've already said i'd bet the game on hammy being wolf so if you're that confident on jav town then it's ara/ssr

    which is to say that you should blast ara tonight

    i'm not there on jav town but it's largely for some combination of "she feels like the most likely ara partner" and "she is underthinking things i don't THINK she would underthink as town" but like. i don't know that for sure
    hammy being wolf?
    Typo I assumed, she said not before
    i'm probs tunneling but feels like freudian slip
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    Completed hammy being wolf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#714)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#709)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#704)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#697)
    I'm probably feeling set where I am

    I'm a bit offput wrt Amy's reactions on being wolf read or people saying things that they can see her as a wolf for. Reactions sort of lowkey feel like miming feelings a bit tho not sure just small thing in addition to other things
    hooooooooly $%#!ing $%#!
    If I'm feeling len and jav town, where do you think I go if not in you/ara?
    i've already said i'd bet the game on hammy being wolf so if you're that confident on jav town then it's ara/ssr

    which is to say that you should blast ara tonight

    i'm not there on jav town but it's largely for some combination of "she feels like the most likely ara partner" and "she is underthinking things i don't THINK she would underthink as town" but like. i don't know that for sure
    hammy being wolf?
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    Completed thank you, i agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#705)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#702)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#697)
    I'm probably feeling set where I am

    I'm a bit offput wrt Amy's reactions on being wolf read or people saying things that they can see her as a wolf for. Reactions sort of lowkey feel like miming feelings a bit tho not sure just small thing in addition to other things
    sorry i've been like not really paying attention to your replies, can you summarize your reads for me? i feel like i am agreeing with misc things you're saying but not quite sure how that factors into your reads as a whole
    Len

    You

    Hammy

    SSR

    One of Amy/Ara

    Is probably where I am at?
    thank you, i agree.
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    Completed aaaaaaaaaaa but this post???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#540)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    it's unironically your fault that i've got ara in my PoE LOL

    You getting salty at Ara over forcing the claim plan got me thinking about the plan in general - trying to figure out "would town or wolf ara be more likely to propose this", and I honestly think the answer is wolf Ara. Additionally, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that my reasons to townread Ara aren't the world's strongest - certainly they're weaker than my reasoning on Hammy and Len - so after you claimed she was kinda already in my bottom 3 by default, meaning if I don't think it's exactly jav/ssr she becomes the next one up.

    Thinking about it more I kinda come up with more reasons to dislike the claim post. Her coming out with it halfway through the day could go either way but I don't think it's great, mostly because I kinda don't see what motivates v!Ara to feel like she has to post it there; feel like it's something v!Ara would have considered overnight, if anything. I think what I'm REALLY starting to dislike is the fact that she forced the plan through. Think v!Ara at least tries to hear feedback or opens the floor for discussion - but her claiming vt off the bat forces the plan and she knows it. Do not like.

    I am somewhat curious to hear your take on teambuilding wrt those 3, especially if you think my approach is flawed here.
    aaaaaaaaaaa but this post???
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    Completed sorry i've been like not really paying attention...

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#697)
    I'm probably feeling set where I am

    I'm a bit offput wrt Amy's reactions on being wolf read or people saying things that they can see her as a wolf for. Reactions sort of lowkey feel like miming feelings a bit tho not sure just small thing in addition to other things
    sorry i've been like not really paying attention to your replies, can you summarize your reads for me? i feel like i am agreeing with misc things you're saying but not quite sure how that factors into your reads as a whole
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    Completed unless len wants to vote ara here? wait amy is...

    unless len wants to vote ara here? wait amy is voting ara??
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    Completed i don't think my vote will move from now

    i don't think my vote will move from now
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    Completed oh GOD this was the post that really made me...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#682)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#672)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#665)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#661)
    ah sorry where?
    p#542
    i mean i'm not the vig so??? i agree with you here, but not sure about any other ara partners. like if you're trying to convince me that it's just you/hammy and not ssr at all then like go ahead by all means
    hey jav, can you read this hammy post directed at Amy?

    Amy's pretty experienced so I'm mostly trying to determine if possible w/w with hammy by reading hammy's posts at amy.

    I kind of liked (as much as I can like a hammy post) this from him wrt amy sort of doing a weird shielding/pocketing routine towards hammy, but the thing is that also feels like what ara has been doing to hammy.

    So it's entirely possible that Hammy is town here... and i'm starting to like tinfoil the amy/ara world which is legit insane

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...15#post5190515
    oh GOD this was the post that really made me think that hammy is town $%#! $%#! $%#! agh okay not sure about the amy/hammy thing. honestly think you. might be somewhat right... it would explain why ara is voting ssr and not amy ngl? i really don't want to believe that ara is scum but i think this is a very plausible thing. i don't think hammy makes this entire big post when scum partners with amy. maybe reading a non scum partner? idk. people were saying ti felt performative but idts?
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    Completed ok is this just gonna end up being me/ara vs...

    ok is this just gonna end up being me/ara vs amy/hammy or what lol
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    Completed i've never voted for ara, correct, and have been...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#670)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#666)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#662)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#656)
    part of my hesitation still with amy is wrt the ara vote

    I suggested ara/jav as a possible world last night and today

    Amy returns to the thread after SR goes onto ara, and votes for Ara, alongside jav, who I thought Amy was suspecting at this point

    why would w!jav put down her vote here if wolves with Ara?
    jav wasn't voting ara when i voted for ara though?

    am i misunderstanding your point?
    yeah, my point was more so that you remained on ara after jav joined you in ara = scum thoughts and on wagon

    (unless you were literally disapoofed from thread and did not notice)

    for me when someone I scum read votes one of my scum reads that i'm voting on, that causes me to waver on whether or not my vote is correct (see eod yesterday wrt dunn and hammy vote)
    jav has literally never voted for ara? i just checked vote history to make sure i wasn't crazy and

    i've never voted for ara, correct, and have been townreading her for most of this time. i just grew paranoid of a possible scum ara world and started considering the possibilities, and after doing so have come to the conclusion that ara is probably not scum
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    Completed i mean i'm not the vig so??? i agree with you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#665)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#661)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#655)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#651)
    i think i will ##Vote superstarsrockfor being the common thread
    thoughts on what i quoted regarding ara/ssr?
    ah sorry where?
    p#542
    i mean i'm not the vig so??? i agree with you here, but not sure about any other ara partners. like if you're trying to convince me that it's just you/hammy and not ssr at all then like go ahead by all means
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    Completed ahhh $%#!. my mind is killing me again....

    ahhh $%#!. my mind is killing me again. @the-middle-of-the-line @Secondhand Revenant thoughts on whether amy/hammy or ara/ssr is more likely? then again ara is literally voting ssr rn? ugh i think i'm gonna ##Vote Ampharosagain i really don't think ara is scum here
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    Completed ah sorry where?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#655)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#651)
    i think i will ##Vote superstarsrockfor being the common thread
    thoughts on what i quoted regarding ara/ssr?
    ah sorry where?
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    Completed i mean who would you partner with amy? hammy,...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#653)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#650)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#647)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#638)
    am thinking about it now and thinking that amy seems scum but she has indeed been pushing on ssr since back in the day so not quite sure how that happens. pre bussing seems not smart and not amy
    ngl I actually think if scum!amy + scum!ssr killed claire (which is most likely given lolbeeboy), it doesn't make sense to me that amy would push "claire's other wolf read is correct" on her own partner, esp given that amy was a stronger scum read than ssr for claire afaict yesterday. The only situation here would be them sort of expecting one or the other to die today and coming in with that expectation meant they were going to pre-bus.
    this exact thing is what makes me paranoid of ara/ssr, ngl. cos don't think it's exactly amy/ssr anymore and not sure how everything goes everything considered with any other partnership with ara barring ara/me
    if I'm understanding you correctly, are you at ara/ssr over any other partnership with amy? or
    i mean who would you partner with amy? hammy, maybe? i think that amy/ssr is unlikely, amy/ara is not a thing at all, i'm highly townreading you, i know i'm town, shr is clear and i have a slight townread on hammy. amy/hammy or ara/ssr are my noted possible scum pairs rn. but i don't think hammy is scum. but also amy voted to save hammy which is :/
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    Completed i think i will superstarsrockfor being the common...

    i think i will ##Vote superstarsrockfor being the common thread
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    Completed this exact thing is what makes me paranoid of...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#647)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#638)
    am thinking about it now and thinking that amy seems scum but she has indeed been pushing on ssr since back in the day so not quite sure how that happens. pre bussing seems not smart and not amy
    ngl I actually think if scum!amy + scum!ssr killed claire (which is most likely given lolbeeboy), it doesn't make sense to me that amy would push "claire's other wolf read is correct" on her own partner, esp given that amy was a stronger scum read than ssr for claire afaict yesterday. The only situation here would be them sort of expecting one or the other to die today and coming in with that expectation meant they were going to pre-bus.
    this exact thing is what makes me paranoid of ara/ssr, ngl. cos don't think it's exactly amy/ssr anymore and not sure how everything goes everything considered with any other partnership with ara barring ara/me
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    Completed not me looking at my very very consistent ssr...

    Quote Originally Posted by superstarsrock (#640)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#619)
    dude i'm not asking why you're not sheeping my reads i'm asking why you seem to be stopping to remind yourself every 2 seconds that you're still scumreading me

    there is some fundamental disconnect here where you're unable to find my alignment and if it's just because you don't agree with my pushes hard enough then Fine, Whatever, there's not a ton i can do about that besides keep trying to solve the game

    but i wanna figure out wtf is going on here because it's extremely irksome.

    to more specifically address reading ara: i'm looking at a very narrow PoE here - you're clear, i'd bet the game on hammy being town, and my own read on len combined with your conviction makes me feel more than comfortable keeping her out of the PoE. fmpov i am looking at 3 people, and 2 of them are wolves.

    arapocalypse is good at wolfing. i AGREE with you, in that i like the shape her thread presence has taken. i like how she's approached the thread, i like the questions she's asking, i generally thought she was Town Off Tone for d1 and the first half of d2. but if i clear ara i lock myself into an ssr/jav world. do i think that world works? do i think it makes sense? it feels Too Easy, and i'm not there on it yet. so i can't afford to clear ara for generic villager $%#! when i have the clearest view on the game's Actual PoE
    Why is me/jav too easy? Just because you don't want to lock in on two specific people as scum at this point?
    not me looking at my very very consistent ssr scumread since the beginning of day one in my meme phase and continuing throughout the entire game. same question to amy as you gave to me, what makes you think it would ever be me/ssr here when i've been doing the exact same thing as you?
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    Completed yeah this sums up my thoughts quite well. i'd say...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#642)
    looking at amy/ara interactions and by association, some reads they give about jav, me, ssr, evan.
    going back to d1 b/c I think I needed to reread to rlly get better context for d1 given my pretty confident townread on sr
    I'm not going to go and do each post like I did in my last iso b/c that took too long and it was pretty useless by eod then, but here are a few takes from me:

    Amy stuff -
    -Amy pushes a lot of people really early to give a read of some sort, which seems towny to me at first glance
    -Ara is one of those people that Amy pokes at and really wants to know where she's at, and Amy also voices a (slight?) scum read on Ara given Ara's push on Dunn for what Amy sees at Dunn things. Hesitation on this is that it seems to me to be an easy/throwaway thing to say at this point in the game, esp b/c it's early, esp since Amy later withdrew this read later on Ara. Particularly this language "i agree that her vote isn't great. just dunno if it's a "this person is mafia" sort of not great" stuck out to me b/c it was saying this doesn't look great w/o offering any deeper sort of take on it wrt reads (aka sussing w/o throwing hard sus, which i dislike).
    -the other part about this read is that Amy says the x is sussing y for doing x stuff, and includes Ara's name as Ara doing Ara stuff, but then says that Ara has a bad vote w/o calling her exactly scum in the same breath a few posts later. :v

    Ara stuff - (with some responses to jav here too b/c I refreshed thread and liked some stuff she said)
    -I still like in context how Ara was going ham (pun not intended)and pushing on multiple ppl d1, notably SR, Dunn, Hammy. Do I believe she only started giving reads b/c Amy prompted her to w/ one of the quoted posts? Possibly?? But given how today shook out and how Amy/Ara seem to be at loggerheads, I don't think Amy/Ara are w/w. Probably. Unless I'm actually literal rust and I'm getting fleeced by one of them.
    -jav, as you were saying in your post, it's hard for me to see Ara as scum too except when she's scum with you... or scum with Hammy. I really liked and agreed with a lot of Ara's posts on D1 that she made, esp wrt SR, Dunn, Hammy, that I pointed out in my other iso (not redoing this work, sue me :P). I like you a lot more today esp given your posts about Amy and Amy's hesitation to give reads on me and Claire, so i'm less sold on you + ara as scum, but Ara did treat you v weirdly d1 esp since a lot of ppl were not townreading you. Her early light town lean that was immediately retracted on you for your asking for information post, her then later on town read on you that was a lot more solidified than I thought it should have been given the amount of posts you made vs the ones that I actually liked, and etc. (Side note wrt Amy: I think I can sort of understand amy's reasoning for why she held back on saying what she expected me to do as town, but I'm not entireloy sure I understand on Claire.)
    I think the mentor vibe thing that you described of Ara towards Hammy actually perfectly describes why I'm sus of a potential Ara/Hammy w/w world, b/c it felt a little like she was overly helping him but in an experienced player way. I think if they were wolves together, PERHAPS they don't need to do that in public, but I also can buy that this is performative. The other reason why I'm sus of this is b/c Hammy has moved up in her town reads list overnight to being a pretty confident one, when she was looking forward to a hammy flip yesterday and doubting the Dunn wagon - saying that off of mechs maybe dunn was town. (Also partially why I was confused about Ara saying she didn't entirely understand what I was asking wrt Dunn being confused making him more town than not).
    Admittedly this is a big tinfoil and I think it's harder for me to see Ara as scum b/c I really liked her d1 more than Amy's. I agree w/ your post about how Amy's opening post today felt preplanned w/ the nk on Claire - she did shoot straight out of the gate with "we should look at claire's reads" and immediately voted ssr, who was Claire's second strongest scum read APART from Amy. That part too, instead of saying that Claire was wrong and wasn't killed for her reads b/c I think town!Amy would be less inclined to do so b/c town!Amy should know if Claire's wrong on her, right?

    Not sure. Although I do think that Amy/Ara probably not w/w b/c I don't think they hard bus here???



    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#55)
    arapocalypse i want you to hit me with A Read

    One Single Read

    Your Favorite Read So Far
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#59)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#51)
    my take:

    ssr's post was worded ambiguously enough, and dunn thinks idiosyncratically enough, that i think it was a perfectly reasonable question from dunn

    at the same time, i can understand someone from the outside, who DID understand what ssr meant, being confused about what the hell dunn was talking about, and finding him suspicious for choosing that of all things to look into

    which is an overly long-winded way of saying that i don't think any of the posts involved in the exchange are outside of what i would expect from any of the players involved, and think that interaction largely looks the same regardless of their alignment

    ...honestly if anything i think it's a slightly good look for dunn, but couldn't really tell you why. it's just a very... dunn-y thing to ask about
    Is that really a hot take, though? Feels like that's mostly where I'm at on all that, anyways!!!!

    Also what does a "dunn-y thing to ask about" mean, regardless?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#53)
    from a tonal standpoint i like jav's posts so far but it's occurred to me that i don't actually think i know what them lying looks like

    so i'm not sure how much merit my read on that has LOL
    I mean, personally while I haven't actually said but I somewhat think they've been lightly towny in general so far, just in, well... general vibes!!!!

    Which are big shrug in terms of confidence in reads, but considering it's the beginning of the Day, I'm perfectly fine running with it for now!!!

    Speaking of which, if you had to ask my favourite read, I've technically already internally assigned ssr the designation of "honourary town" for the moment... the length of which remains to be seen!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#59)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#51)
    my take:

    ssr's post was worded ambiguously enough, and dunn thinks idiosyncratically enough, that i think it was a perfectly reasonable question from dunn

    at the same time, i can understand someone from the outside, who DID understand what ssr meant, being confused about what the hell dunn was talking about, and finding him suspicious for choosing that of all things to look into

    which is an overly long-winded way of saying that i don't think any of the posts involved in the exchange are outside of what i would expect from any of the players involved, and think that interaction largely looks the same regardless of their alignment

    ...honestly if anything i think it's a slightly good look for dunn, but couldn't really tell you why. it's just a very... dunn-y thing to ask about
    Is that really a hot take, though? Feels like that's mostly where I'm at on all that, anyways!!!!

    Also what does a "dunn-y thing to ask about" mean, regardless?
    i never claimed it was a particularly spicy take, though at the very least it's a direct counter to claire's thinking

    what i mean by "dunn-y thing to ask about" is... difficult to explain, to someone who doesn't know dunn all that well. he can be a very literal person, i suppose, and he doesn't like to waste words
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#67)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#59)
    Is that really a hot take, though? Feels like that's mostly where I'm at on all that, anyways!!!!

    Also what does a "dunn-y thing to ask about" mean, regardless?
    i never claimed it was a particularly spicy take, though at the very least it's a direct counter to claire's thinking

    what i mean by "dunn-y thing to ask about" is... difficult to explain, to someone who doesn't know dunn all that well. he can be a very literal person, i suppose, and he doesn't like to waste words
    ...I could have sworn I read "hot take" there instead of "my take"?!?! No idea why!!!!!

    Hmm, okay... don't really have that much else to say on that, I guess!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#74)
    i sound like a broken record, but

    at the moment dunn is voting jav for doing jav things, ara is voting dunn for doing dunn things, and SR is sussing ara for doing ara things

    and it's extremely funny to me how Extremely Predictable this all is

    @Dunnstral: i'm preeeeeetty sure jav's p#27 was a joke. don't think they drop the "bold of you to assume" there without doing so ironically, and i wouldn't be throwing them this lifeline if i wasn't fairly confident on that

    @Arapocalypse: this is EXACTLY the sort of thing i expect dunn to get hung up on. overly literal, remember? and on top of that... calling dunn "serious" feels a LITTLE off, because he does have a (VERY dry) sense of humor, but this is definitely the sort of thing he'd take seriously, and being out of phase with the rest of the thread tracks with other games i've played with him (maybe it was only one game? it is at LEAST one game.)

    @Secondhand Revenant: i'm completely unsurprised that ara's pushing this and would expect her to do so as any alignment, tbh. if she's a wolf she's doin' it to have something to do. if she's town... this is extremely reminiscent of playing ace attorney with her. this feels like something she'd get stuck on. also, i was pretty vague in my description of dunn, because it's kinda hard to explain what i'm trying to convey. i can't really fault ara for not fully grasping what i was getting at

    i expect this attempt to dissuade 3 simultaneous pushes will be extremely well received, of course. c'est la vie
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#75)
    though honestly SR feel free to grill ara as much as you want on this, cause i agree that her vote isn't great. just dunno if it's a "this person is mafia" sort of not great
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#80)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#74)
    i sound like a broken record, but

    at the moment dunn is voting jav for doing jav things, ara is voting dunn for doing dunn things, and SR is sussing ara for doing ara things

    and it's extremely funny to me how Extremely Predictable this all is

    @Dunnstral: i'm preeeeeetty sure jav's p#27 was a joke. don't think they drop the "bold of you to assume" there without doing so ironically, and i wouldn't be throwing them this lifeline if i wasn't fairly confident on that

    @Arapocalypse: this is EXACTLY the sort of thing i expect dunn to get hung up on. overly literal, remember? and on top of that... calling dunn "serious" feels a LITTLE off, because he does have a (VERY dry) sense of humor, but this is definitely the sort of thing he'd take seriously, and being out of phase with the rest of the thread tracks with other games i've played with him (maybe it was only one game? it is at LEAST one game.)

    @Secondhand Revenant: i'm completely unsurprised that ara's pushing this and would expect her to do so as any alignment, tbh. if she's a wolf she's doin' it to have something to do. if she's town... this is extremely reminiscent of playing ace attorney with her. this feels like something she'd get stuck on. also, i was pretty vague in my description of dunn, because it's kinda hard to explain what i'm trying to convey. i can't really fault ara for not fully grasping what i was getting at

    i expect this attempt to dissuade 3 simultaneous pushes will be extremely well received, of course. c'est la vie
    I literally wasn't going to do that, at first!!!! But then, reconsidering, and do I look like I have anything else better to do right now? Yes, I know what you said about him being literal!!!!! Though... I somewhat had also thought you meant more of the "is literal in expression" versus "takes things literally", the latter of which it seems you meant more?

    Which... okay then!!

    I actually don't have much to say about that this time; sure there is a non-zero chance that that could be the case, and I absolutely would not be surprised in the slightest if I was wrong here!!!!! That being said, there's not really much else I'm going to do here right now besides seeing where this goes, in lieu of better options at the moment!!!!!!!

    But yes, the thought has been acknowledged/taken into account going forward!!!

    Can't believe we're already getting into ace attorney reads though, but I guess that's close enough!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#104)
    Quote Originally Posted by superstarsrock (#100)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#86)
    @superstarsrock or anyone else that has exp with beebs, is him disappearing alignment indicative? Does beeb hate being scum like my soulread of him says?
    I think other people have legitimately played mafia with him before but I have not, apparently he has some massive discrepancies in post counts when scum vs town.
    Yes, but also shrug as I said earlier; if he doesn't post at all for the rest of the day that'd definitely be a concern, but that remains to be seen!!!

    (And vote him, just for the hype of it!!!!!)
    Quote Originally Posted by superstarsrock (#101)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnstral (#85)
    3. Your read on beeboy is blatantly fake. Here are his posts:


    Ampharos - Amy/Mixoldia
    Arapocalypse - Ara
    beeboy - beeboy
    Chelsea - Claire
    Dunnstral - Dunn
    Hammy - Evan Noe
    Javelinlover - Jav
    Secondhand Revenant - SR/Pawnshop Dragon
    superstarsrock - Lanny/RSSP
    the-middle-of-the-line - Len/Theoboop


    I think it's this

    Which of these posts make you think that he's:
    -excited
    -relaxed
    -"not stressed"
    -not scum

    The read is nonsense and you're making stuff up
    Gotta say I agree with this, I think Len explains herself a bit down the line about mistaking me for beeboy(?) but from the perspective of “beeboy seems excited/relaxed” the posts he’s made so far do nothing to make me think that.

    (I realize I’m kinda just echoing other people here, just making my way through this page of posts atm)
    I don't necessarily agree with it? The stuff about excited to post pre-game/relaxed about not looking towny stuff makes sense, but I think pulling out the concern is solid!!!

    If I were considering how it's possible his posts exist from a town perspective, I'd say the lack of concern over trying to look towny/not pretending to look towny is slightly good, but that also depends on his later activity as said earlier!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#112)
    claire, ara, and ssr are my townreads rn

    jav a tier below that

    everyone else hanging out below that
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#152)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#140)
    i don't buy that len's soulreading me wolf

    i think she's noticed that the thread's pretty lukewarm on me and thinks she can seed suspicion without necessarily getting her hands dirty

    probably indicates that the people lowest on me (hi claire) are more likely to be town
    Regarding the bolded, can you elaborate more on this? As in, do you think she would for sure soulread you as town if you're town or similar, or... what?

    Do you have any other thoughts on what she's posted so far, beyond "vague feels"?

    Speaking of which, you've also mentioned that you've never played together before!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#153)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#145)
    claire/dunn/ara
    sr/beeboy/hammy
    ssr/jav
    len

    very rough list, subject to change according to my whims
    Can you elaborate on... me/Claire/SR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#155)
    Alright, sure, let's look at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#88)
    Len's soulreads (don't ask for any clarification or explanation because this is me trying to peer into people's souls, I don't know how to explain this but I think I'll get at least some right, I love doing this because Mangled Fern used to do this and had a pretty high accuracy rate)

    Ampharos - randed scum but is trying to be chill and have a good time with friends
    Arapocalypse - very excited to be town and aggressively pushes everything she can
    beeboy - randed town but forgot about the thread or randed scum and early posted because ??
    Chelsea - randed town, probably because has good pushes and I generally agree with her. This is the only not soulread because I don't think I can read Claire's soul.
    Dunnstral - either randed town and has awful tone or just randed scum
    Hammy - possibly randed scum with Amy and the first vote is just an elaborate w/w theatre
    Javelinlover - possibly randed scum and is trying to pocket SR
    Secondhand Revenant - either randed scum and is oowerwolfing by pushing Ara who's probably one of my strongest town reads or is being treated like town by jav which is like ???
    superstarsrock - randed town and is having a good time, seems pretty relaxed and excited to be here
    the-middle-of-the-line - mwah
    Note the scumreads on this list. Notably, note that mine is the only one that's phrased like the firm townreads - there's no mincing of words, there's no "possibly", I just randed scum. Seems like a safe bet to say that I should be her biggest scumread right now.

    Thing is, I don't... see that manifesting elsewhere in her ISO. She's asked me a question about the "stop making bad pushes" post I made, but it's a pretty weak question - think it's not too difficult to understand what I mean when I say "you shouldn't push Dunn for doing Dunn things", and I think that's an extremely weird aspect of that entire chain to choose to focus on. Her only other real comments about me are some nonsense about RVS that I can't even really parse?

    I think the fact that she was willing to word a read on me this strongly, but only in a post that she's intentionally downplaying and almost certainly intends to disown later, is a bad look. I think if she feels strongly enough about my alignment to make me the only firm wolfread in her soulreads list, she'd be more motivated to actually push that.

    And no, I've never played mafia with Len before, but I've argued with Len before, and I'm looking for some of the same things here :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#156)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#153)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#145)
    claire/dunn/ara
    sr/beeboy/hammy
    ssr/jav
    len

    very rough list, subject to change according to my whims
    Can you elaborate on... me/Claire/SR?
    intentionally withholding further claire-ification on my claire read, as stated above. i'm not sorry about the refusal to answer, and i'm not sorry about the pun

    Regarding you: well, for starters, I expected you to be way less Into this game had you randed wolf - and yes, I KNOW that you're you, and that you're always hype, but I ALSO know you've had just about enough of wolfrands lately and I think your excitement to be in this game is deeper than surface level exclamation points here. A lot of it past that point is feels - as I alluded to earlier, there have been multiple points where you've questioned the exact sorts of things I expect you to be questioning if you're legitimately attempting to figure things out. Maybe that should be NAI in a vacuum, but I find that people who behave as I expect them to are town far more often than not.

    That's not to say I don't have reservations on your alignment, but they're the sort of reservations that I'm more passively on the lookout for than actively pursuing. Is part of this influenced by me WANTING you to have finally gotten your townrand? Possibly. Do I care? Ask me again if it becomes relevant.

    Regarding SR: I like p#76 doubling down on his questioning of you after I pointed out that you were grilling Dunn for something I thought was pretty NAI to grill you on - feels good in a "I believe he's legitimately suspicious of this" sort of way. Also like his callouts of Len, and I'm not sure this is how he'd handle beeboy as a wolf? Admittedly I'm less sure on that last point, but I could easily see a world where beeboy's afk (as either alignment) and w!SR comes out hard against it, either to force him to be a PoE talking point (if v!beeboy) or to bus for cred (if w!beeboy). Think the very casual soft mention is a lot more in line with how he'd play it as a villager.

    Caveat of course being that SR is a very good wolf and I think he's probably the single person I know best without having any goddamned idea how to meta read him. Respect of wolfgame is probably the only thing keeping him out of the top tier for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#158)
    And y'know what, a freebie for the road. I actually have a real read on Hammy, though I'm unsure how hasty it is because I DEFINITELY want him to be town here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#70)
    So I'm 8 years late, but I'm here. Still figuring out how forums and stuff works.

    It seems Amy has voted me already based on the fact that I'm new and naturally I think I have to counterattack.
    ... If I can figure out how to. But maybe instead of doing a meme vote and wasting it this early (if I can't change it) I probably shouldn't do that.

    My reads so far is that Ara seems hype. Amy seems mean. Trying to figure out what's going on with jav, Chelsea, and Revenant.
    So, Hammy knows how to play hidden identity games - at least irl. We've played things like Secret Hitler/Resistance/etc quite a bit in the past, and he's pretty good at them. What I mean to establish by mentioning this is that while he may be unfamiliar with the longer written format, he's certainly familiar with the general gameflow of a game of mafia.

    With that said, I don't think that last line is something he writes as a wolf here. I think if Hammy's randed mafia and is trying to figure out his first ever post on a forum, he's going to try really hard to make sure all his ducks are in a row; I think that last sentence is counter to that, because I think it literally says nothing at all. Feel like w!Hammy would either not mention jav/ara/SR at all, or would try to have something to say about them; the empty namedrop, ergo, feels like a genuine villagery sentiment, wherein Hammy's just saying exactly what he's thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#160)
    @Arapocalypse can you talk about jav? is your townread still largely predicated on Vibes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#161)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#155)
    Alright, sure, let's look at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#88)
    Len's soulreads (don't ask for any clarification or explanation because this is me trying to peer into people's souls, I don't know how to explain this but I think I'll get at least some right, I love doing this because Mangled Fern used to do this and had a pretty high accuracy rate)

    Ampharos - randed scum but is trying to be chill and have a good time with friends
    Arapocalypse - very excited to be town and aggressively pushes everything she can
    beeboy - randed town but forgot about the thread or randed scum and early posted because ??
    Chelsea - randed town, probably because has good pushes and I generally agree with her. This is the only not soulread because I don't think I can read Claire's soul.
    Dunnstral - either randed town and has awful tone or just randed scum
    Hammy - possibly randed scum with Amy and the first vote is just an elaborate w/w theatre
    Javelinlover - possibly randed scum and is trying to pocket SR
    Secondhand Revenant - either randed scum and is oowerwolfing by pushing Ara who's probably one of my strongest town reads or is being treated like town by jav which is like ???
    superstarsrock - randed town and is having a good time, seems pretty relaxed and excited to be here
    the-middle-of-the-line - mwah
    Note the scumreads on this list. Notably, note that mine is the only one that's phrased like the firm townreads - there's no mincing of words, there's no "possibly", I just randed scum. Seems like a safe bet to say that I should be her biggest scumread right now.

    Thing is, I don't... see that manifesting elsewhere in her ISO. She's asked me a question about the "stop making bad pushes" post I made, but it's a pretty weak question - think it's not too difficult to understand what I mean when I say "you shouldn't push Dunn for doing Dunn things", and I think that's an extremely weird aspect of that entire chain to choose to focus on. Her only other real comments about me are some nonsense about RVS that I can't even really parse?

    I think the fact that she was willing to word a read on me this strongly, but only in a post that she's intentionally downplaying and almost certainly intends to disown later, is a bad look. I think if she feels strongly enough about my alignment to make me the only firm wolfread in her soulreads list, she'd be more motivated to actually push that.

    And no, I've never played mafia with Len before, but I've argued with Len before, and I'm looking for some of the same things here :P
    Hmm, okay; that's basically entirely predicated on her read/play around you in particular, for which do you have any thoughts on her posts so far outside of that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#162)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#161)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#155)
    Alright, sure, let's look at this.



    Note the scumreads on this list. Notably, note that mine is the only one that's phrased like the firm townreads - there's no mincing of words, there's no "possibly", I just randed scum. Seems like a safe bet to say that I should be her biggest scumread right now.

    Thing is, I don't... see that manifesting elsewhere in her ISO. She's asked me a question about the "stop making bad pushes" post I made, but it's a pretty weak question - think it's not too difficult to understand what I mean when I say "you shouldn't push Dunn for doing Dunn things", and I think that's an extremely weird aspect of that entire chain to choose to focus on. Her only other real comments about me are some nonsense about RVS that I can't even really parse?

    I think the fact that she was willing to word a read on me this strongly, but only in a post that she's intentionally downplaying and almost certainly intends to disown later, is a bad look. I think if she feels strongly enough about my alignment to make me the only firm wolfread in her soulreads list, she'd be more motivated to actually push that.

    And no, I've never played mafia with Len before, but I've argued with Len before, and I'm looking for some of the same things here :P
    Hmm, okay; that's basically entirely predicated on her read/play around you in particular, for which do you have any thoughts on her posts so far outside of that?
    i largely agree with SR in that i think there have been things she's misconstrued/misrepresented and i'm somewhat side-eyeing that

    i do have other thoughts but i'd like to keep them to myself for the time being
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#163)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#160)
    @Arapocalypse can you talk about jav? is your townread still largely predicated on Vibes?
    Maybe not vibes per se?

    Feel like a lot of it is based on just feels like there's a lot of things that they've expressed feel overall towny? Waterfall thoughts that I get the general sense of is enthusiastically towny in a way that wants to get solving, and a sort of way of posting which gives the sense of "I'm making town thoughts" that comes with the territory of not being concerned with looking towny!!

    The opposite of LAMIST, maybe!!!

    Which yes, I realize that sounds like vibes, but it is distinctly different from being mere vibes!!!!!

    Also a few minor things that had towny pings, which aren't really that much on their own, but yeah!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#164)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#163)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#160)
    @Arapocalypse can you talk about jav? is your townread still largely predicated on Vibes?
    Maybe not vibes per se?

    Feel like a lot of it is based on just feels like there's a lot of things that they've expressed feel overall towny? Waterfall thoughts that I get the general sense of is enthusiastically towny in a way that wants to get solving, and a sort of way of posting which gives the sense of "I'm making town thoughts" that comes with the territory of not being concerned with looking towny!!

    The opposite of LAMIST, maybe!!!

    Which yes, I realize that sounds like vibes, but it is distinctly different from being mere vibes!!!!!

    Also a few minor things that had towny pings, which aren't really that much on their own, but yeah!!
    mmmmmmmmok

    i'm not 100% sure i agree with this assessment beyond a superficial level

    but i also think jav is going to get easier to read with time, and am not super interested in going there today

    so i'll just let them vibe and see what happens
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#167)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#156)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#153)
    Can you elaborate on... me/Claire/SR?
    intentionally withholding further claire-ification on my claire read, as stated above. i'm not sorry about the refusal to answer, and i'm not sorry about the pun

    Regarding you: well, for starters, I expected you to be way less Into this game had you randed wolf - and yes, I KNOW that you're you, and that you're always hype, but I ALSO know you've had just about enough of wolfrands lately and I think your excitement to be in this game is deeper than surface level exclamation points here. A lot of it past that point is feels - as I alluded to earlier, there have been multiple points where you've questioned the exact sorts of things I expect you to be questioning if you're legitimately attempting to figure things out. Maybe that should be NAI in a vacuum, but I find that people who behave as I expect them to are town far more often than not.

    That's not to say I don't have reservations on your alignment, but they're the sort of reservations that I'm more passively on the lookout for than actively pursuing. Is part of this influenced by me WANTING you to have finally gotten your townrand? Possibly. Do I care? Ask me again if it becomes relevant.

    Regarding SR: I like p#76 doubling down on his questioning of you after I pointed out that you were grilling Dunn for something I thought was pretty NAI to grill you on - feels good in a "I believe he's legitimately suspicious of this" sort of way. Also like his callouts of Len, and I'm not sure this is how he'd handle beeboy as a wolf? Admittedly I'm less sure on that last point, but I could easily see a world where beeboy's afk (as either alignment) and w!SR comes out hard against it, either to force him to be a PoE talking point (if v!beeboy) or to bus for cred (if w!beeboy). Think the very casual soft mention is a lot more in line with how he'd play it as a villager.

    Caveat of course being that SR is a very good wolf and I think he's probably the single person I know best without having any goddamned idea how to meta read him. Respect of wolfgame is probably the only thing keeping him out of the top tier for me.
    Noted!!!



    (For what it's worth, that was more for anni in particular, that desire just... got delayed; I suspect I'll be right back into wanting a mafia rand next, after the cowboy hat here!!)

    Hmm, okay; I guess I was wondering more if you had more of an in-depth read there? There are things which have looked good, just not stuff I've felt particularly strongly about either way, that's all!!!!

    Might also be that I've always been big shrug on reading SR, but yeah!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#170)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#164)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#163)
    Maybe not vibes per se?

    Feel like a lot of it is based on just feels like there's a lot of things that they've expressed feel overall towny? Waterfall thoughts that I get the general sense of is enthusiastically towny in a way that wants to get solving, and a sort of way of posting which gives the sense of "I'm making town thoughts" that comes with the territory of not being concerned with looking towny!!

    The opposite of LAMIST, maybe!!!

    Which yes, I realize that sounds like vibes, but it is distinctly different from being mere vibes!!!!!

    Also a few minor things that had towny pings, which aren't really that much on their own, but yeah!!
    mmmmmmmmok

    i'm not 100% sure i agree with this assessment beyond a superficial level

    but i also think jav is going to get easier to read with time, and am not super interested in going there today

    so i'll just let them vibe and see what happens
    Is there any particular reason you don't agree with it? Also, why a superficial level, specifically?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#171)
    I mean, sure; I guess I'm not really that concerned about him right now, it's just... would be nice to acquire a more confident read on him, regardless!!!!!

    Alternatively, he could just die, which would make things easier!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#178)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#162)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#161)
    Hmm, okay; that's basically entirely predicated on her read/play around you in particular, for which do you have any thoughts on her posts so far outside of that?

    i largely agree with SR in that i think there have been things she's misconstrued/misrepresented and i'm somewhat side-eyeing that

    i do have other thoughts but i'd like to keep them to myself for the time being
    Are we past the time being yet?

    Sort of want to talk about this, but also not really sure if I have that much to say; I'm just really shrug at most suspicion here, and it's a little offputting!!!!!

    Was going to leave this for a bit longer, but !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#179)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#177)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#169)
    Just in general, where/what do you think the mafia are up to in this game, so far?

    It's perfectly fine if you want to just shrug at the question... but it would be hype if you wanted to take a stab at it, however!!!!!
    This is all still not solid, but IF Len just gave the biggest wolf tip and does turn out to be wolf (which I can still be swayed against, we haven't heard back from her and I honestly feel bad having this much sus heaped on her in one day to come back and read it all) then I would imagine the other mafia would probably be trying to lay low and potentially do damage control. Hypothetically, with the knowledge that your certain other wolf is going down in flames, from a wolf's perspective it would cause me to panic. Unless you've got a godtier pokerface and can just play it off like that.

    Long and short, I'd predict more sticking to the shadows for the mafia.
    Hmm, okay; can't say I really expected that, but it was a very open-ended question to be fair!!!!!

    Thanks for answering, regardless!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#318)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#273)
    It's not lost on me that the 3 primary suspicions I've vocalized thus far are 3 of the 4 people I've never played forum mafia with before, minus the newbie. I am actively considering the implications of this.

    On the flip side, it's day 1 and I don't particularly feel like throwing out all my reads for the sake of re-evaluation unless it starts to look like I actually DO need to re-evaluate. So while it's POSSIBLE I'm giving credit too easily to the people I know better, it's also entirely possible that those people just randed town lol

    THAT BEING SAID, if I'm to actively look at spots where I'm most likely wrong: I keep looking at Chelsea (11) and hoping that number goes up, because I'm aware of the fact that my read on Chelsea has gotten Pretty Good but I am similarly terrified of getting overly confident about said read - and I've never actually played with w!Chelsea before, though I've witnessed it from afar.

    also my read on beeboy is largely a 1 post snapread that i could be goofin' on, but i don't think i am rn, so

    I think I'm fairly confident that I'm not wrong on Hammy? p#196 struck me as very villagery. Think I also feel good about Dunn, bolstered by the fact that Claire agrees with me (and if they randed wolf together I'd almost expect more theater? idk). There's always a level of temperance with my SR read but I'm not super worried about it right now, especially after the lenanigans that ensued earlier today.

    Shrug. The average skill level in this game is really high. Probably gonna be hard.
    Did you ever elaborate on the bolded?

    My thoughts on Hammy are... still shrug I guess; sort of seeing where you're coming from with regards to the towniness about it, but feels like some of the minor stuff (like the thing about adding the last three names) are not overly alignment-indicative, in the grand scheme of things!!

    Speaking of which, I read the Beeboy post you made and have thoughts but keep losing it; one moment!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#324)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#280)
    p#122 was the one I liked. I think it's a pretty strong stance to take that early in the game for a w!beeboy who knows he's gonna be afk for reasons beyond typical w!beeboy reasons, and I like the bit of snarkiness that's accompanying it.

    If there's anything that holds me back from defending him harder it's his choice of target (I feel like choosing one of the people largely outside the meta circles for this purpose is kiiiind of a red flag?) and the last line, which may be delivered as a joke but serves to sort of undermine the post regardless - but maybe that's v!beeboy snark? idk.
    This is what I actively disagreed with; think I might have said so already, but it really doesn't feel like a strong stance at all, there!! A lot of the "kinda sorta maybe" language that reads as uncertainty that I'm not really getting as town uncertainty that much, as in it feels like more... testing the waters with regards to the suspicion there (particularly with the ending thing) versus the uncertainty of trying to figure out someone's alignment!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#329)
    p#158 is phrased as a meta read but is something i was more broadly applying to an entire archetype of wolf

    i maintain it's not so much a meta read as a "here's a thing i don't think someone new to forum mafia would do, assuming they aren't completely clueless"

    on len: p#155 is not a meta post. at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#335)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#325)
    When You Give PT a Mafia Game Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Ampharos Secondhand Revenant (52), Chelsea (19)
    2 superstarsrock beeboy (8), Ampharos (60)
    2 beeboy Arapocalypse (46), Dunnstral (22)
    1 Chelsea superstarsrock (11)
    1 Secondhand Revenant Javelinlover (30)
    2 Not voting Hammy (21), the-middle-of-the-line (40)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, August 15th, 2021. There are 1629072060000 remaining.
    Going to stop timewarping; with regards to current thoughts on wagons...

    Regarding superstarsrock, I... wouldn't be overly surprised if they were mafia? I just vaguely liked them so far today (despite feeling like pocketing things), though some of the points raised against them do have merit; that being said, at this point I'm more interested in seeing how people are moving around them, I think!!

    Similar thoughts on Ampharos, though there's more of "these seem like fairly towny thoughts" here in general, particularly after her returning to the thread!!!

    Just feels like there's a lot of compromise votes/thoughts going around, which I guess is typical day 1 fare, but also... meh!!!!

    Part of me also wants to just go for Beeboy today and leave the vigshot just straight up to the vig, for the hype!!!

    Would be hype if @Hammy and @the-middle-of-the-line wanted to put down a vote, though!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#407)
    i'm not sold on this dunn wagon but i'm not opposed enough that i'm going to scream for a counter

    somewhat irked that my ssr push didn't pick up any traction but it is what it is
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#411)
    ##Vote Hammy

    I don't really think thinking him having done a bus vote there makes sense, though!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#414)
    ##Vote Dunnstral

    preempting potential len swap to hammy

    i have much stronger opinions on hammy's alignment than i do on dunn's at this point
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#415)
    ...Sort of getting the sense that Dunn would flip town with the mechanical stuff, actually!!!! :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#419)
    Hammy flip hype though?!
    yeah this sums up my thoughts quite well. i'd say i disagree with you on the ara/hammy part cos later she votes hammy when it's hammy/dunn wagons and idt she hard busses her partner if she's trying to encourage him to play the game here?
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    Completed ya so like i think ara voted ssr but other than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#639)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#637)
    hm, ssr/ara? thoughts?
    i touched on this last night

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#542)
    ...maybe i'm wrong to too quickly discount an Ara/SSR world?

    The thread was stagnant on me/SSR wagons, and Ara didn't leave herself a ton of room to reasonably swap onto me; if she's a wolf feeling cornered by that, this could potentially be her hail mary to realign things away from that.

    The counterargument there is that if jav winds up being the vig it's kinda catastrophic, cause then I triple down on SSR and SR is still on the brink of joining me. I think it's MORE likely that Ara does this to secure an already-favorable thread position than to try to salvage a lost one, especially because I don't think anyone was really linking her to SSR at all and she could probably just shut up and bus him and try to go deep.

    yeah ok i talked myself out of it, ara/ssr probably just isn't viable
    ya so like i think ara voted ssr but other than that nothing happened between them here and i kind of think ssr/ara is the only world in my head where ara is wolf at all
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    Completed am thinking about it now and thinking that amy...

    am thinking about it now and thinking that amy seems scum but she has indeed been pushing on ssr since back in the day so not quite sure how that happens. pre bussing seems not smart and not amy
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    Completed hm, ssr/ara? thoughts?

    hm, ssr/ara? thoughts?
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    Completed so is there a reason why you had this reservation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#628)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#625)
    hmm, good point about len's towniness here. i'm not quite sure how much i buy the "i'm investing into future game alignment reads" here, think it's valid but for the scope of this game i don't like it
    not future games, future as in "within the next 24 hours"

    i'm saying i wanted to see what len would do THIS GAME, without me telling her what i expected her to do THIS GAME, so that i could see what her behavior THIS GAME would say about her alignment THIS GAME without her knowing exactly what i was looking for THIS GAME
    so is there a reason why you had this reservation for len and riri and not everyone else?
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    Completed oh this makes sense. sorry then

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#620)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#617)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#568)
    ##Vote Arapocalypse

    Tossing this over in my mind tbh wrt the vig thing because like, Amy has a strong point. Wolves really want to out the vig and not have a clear in the game tomorrow. Not fully sure I buy Ara didn't think of that, and it feels partly like in her explanations she doesn't acknowledge that because admitting this move was really +EV for the wolves looks bad for her

    @Ampharos
    @Javelinlover
    @superstarsrock

    Amy cuz I want your second opinion here

    Other two cuz you need to post and this is a thing to think on
    i'm not quite sure how outing vig is bad for town here, it made sense in my head. if we vote wrong today it's 4v2 and then vig can't shoot for fear of solo losing and next day wolves just claim vig lol and there's no clears. claiming vig today ensures that mafia can't cc for fear of being shot? can you explain why vig outing is +ev for wolves here
    If they cc me tomorrow we just sleep (vote no kill) and I kill them at night so they cannot cc me

    So look at mafia point of view here, they aren't sure who the vig is. If I played well I made them think I was not vig due to repping thinking Claire might have vig vibes. Amy was clearly not vig. So who does wolf!Ara kill? Maybe len, but also if it's not len she has to kill into the pool of suspected players which can be massively -ev for wolves if they don't hit the vig, yeah? And then suddenly tomorrow they cleared the poe a bit with their kill and the vig is another clear. Given the game size that's pretty rough for wolves yah?
    oh this makes sense. sorry then
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    Completed hmm, good point about len's towniness here. i'm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#619)
    traffic was $%#! because i forgot there's a soccer game today AND i got stuck behind a train AND i still haven't gotten to eat yet AND people are pushing me for dumb reasons. Annoyed Amy is here and i don't think there's enough time left in the day to put the genie back in the bottle

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#591)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#588)
    SR, I've emptied my brain onto the page today. You agree with my reads. How do I help you get there on me? What are we missing here?

    It feels like every time I post you're like "hmmmm that's a good point but I think you're a wolf so..." and I tried rly hard not to get upset about it but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed.

    halfway tempted to say "just kill me and sheep my reads" ngl but I'm fundamentally opposed to self voting except to self hammer as scum so option 2 is that we gotta Get There

    need to eat or I'm gonna pass out, gimme a bit
    They're *reasonable* thoughts but that doesn't mean they're all there is to it? Like wrt Ara, she really tried hard to drive the thread forward when she didn't have to? I'm not sure you should be on her *except* for the vig thing and stuff surrounding that?

    It's not that I think your things are definitive, it's that I think you are able to make reasonable points worth consideration, but they don't make someone a wolf because there's other considerations to weigh against?
    dude i'm not asking why you're not sheeping my reads i'm asking why you seem to be stopping to remind yourself every 2 seconds that you're still scumreading me

    there is some fundamental disconnect here where you're unable to find my alignment and if it's just because you don't agree with my pushes hard enough then Fine, Whatever, there's not a ton i can do about that besides keep trying to solve the game

    but i wanna figure out wtf is going on here because it's extremely irksome.

    to more specifically address reading ara: i'm looking at a very narrow PoE here - you're clear, i'd bet the game on hammy being town, and my own read on len combined with your conviction makes me feel more than comfortable keeping her out of the PoE. fmpov i am looking at 3 people, and 2 of them are wolves.

    arapocalypse is good at wolfing. i AGREE with you, in that i like the shape her thread presence has taken. i like how she's approached the thread, i like the questions she's asking, i generally thought she was Town Off Tone for d1 and the first half of d2. but if i clear ara i lock myself into an ssr/jav world. do i think that world works? do i think it makes sense? it feels Too Easy, and i'm not there on it yet. so i can't afford to clear ara for generic villager $%#! when i have the clearest view on the game's Actual PoE

    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#598)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#148)
    hhh you asked about the two reads i have actual Reasons to hold back that aren't just pure laziness lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#149)
    to be clear: while i AM currently scumreading len, she's made a grand total of 8 posts. i'd like to further evaluate her behavior without it being influenced by any allegations i would otherwise make

    similar thing on claire, but in the opposite direction
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#155)
    Alright, sure, let's look at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#88)
    Len's soulreads (don't ask for any clarification or explanation because this is me trying to peer into people's souls, I don't know how to explain this but I think I'll get at least some right, I love doing this because Mangled Fern used to do this and had a pretty high accuracy rate)

    Ampharos - randed scum but is trying to be chill and have a good time with friends
    Arapocalypse - very excited to be town and aggressively pushes everything she can
    beeboy - randed town but forgot about the thread or randed scum and early posted because ??
    Chelsea - randed town, probably because has good pushes and I generally agree with her. This is the only not soulread because I don't think I can read Claire's soul.
    Dunnstral - either randed town and has awful tone or just randed scum
    Hammy - possibly randed scum with Amy and the first vote is just an elaborate w/w theatre
    Javelinlover - possibly randed scum and is trying to pocket SR
    Secondhand Revenant - either randed scum and is oowerwolfing by pushing Ara who's probably one of my strongest town reads or is being treated like town by jav which is like ???
    superstarsrock - randed town and is having a good time, seems pretty relaxed and excited to be here
    the-middle-of-the-line - mwah
    Note the scumreads on this list. Notably, note that mine is the only one that's phrased like the firm townreads - there's no mincing of words, there's no "possibly", I just randed scum. Seems like a safe bet to say that I should be her biggest scumread right now.

    Thing is, I don't... see that manifesting elsewhere in her ISO. She's asked me a question about the "stop making bad pushes" post I made, but it's a pretty weak question - think it's not too difficult to understand what I mean when I say "you shouldn't push Dunn for doing Dunn things", and I think that's an extremely weird aspect of that entire chain to choose to focus on. Her only other real comments about me are some nonsense about RVS that I can't even really parse?

    I think the fact that she was willing to word a read on me this strongly, but only in a post that she's intentionally downplaying and almost certainly intends to disown later, is a bad look. I think if she feels strongly enough about my alignment to make me the only firm wolfread in her soulreads list, she'd be more motivated to actually push that.

    And no, I've never played mafia with Len before, but I've argued with Len before, and I'm looking for some of the same things here :P
    this is the progression of amy on len on d1 and i think it's kind of funky. the reason she's holding back her reads was because she didn't want it to influence len's posts??? what?? how does that make any sort of sense and how does it help town at all? i think that len responding to amy is a good thing here because of the fact that amy *already made a scumread on len* for the soulreads list but refused to give any sort of reasoning further than that and refused to elaborate like


    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#142)
    there's more to my scumread on len than just a dislike of her soul read but a lot of it is vague ~feels~ and i kinda wanna get her back in here and see what's what before i talk about it
    ?????????????????????????????
    dude ok this is not rocket science

    the reason i didn't want to influence len's posts was because the biggest thing i was holding back was "i think len has been far more Detatched and Clinical than i think she would be as a villager, i expect her to be down in the dirt debating people here"

    do you know what happens if i out that read? she starts doing that regardless of alignment, because if she's a wolf i've just told her how to get me to townread her

    the benefit to town is "i get to see if this read has any actual merit or not, because this read is based at least partially on a certain behavior that's yet to manifest; if this behavior manifests without outside influence, then i can trust that said behavior's genuine"

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#601)
    Okay yeah uh

    Especially there's a post from Amy later on that townreads me for fighting tooth and nail with SR, which is ~fine

    Except for that Amy said she expected me to fight someone if I were town, and since I did, I'm town. This felt to me to be sort of the similar personality reads she was doing on you (jav), Sr, Dunn, and Claire on d1

    Admittedly I get biased towards ppl once they start townreading me because I'm like oh wow you understand where I'm coming from now, but I think the ease of the initial town read that Amy gave me because I had a kerscuffle in thread with SR makes me wary now

    Esp since I think the rest of you were townreading that interaction for different reasons (and as I eventually came to townread Sr for being a stubborn brick wall with similar tunnels on me as I had on him)
    i expect you to be more controlled as a wolf, more composed. i think the manner in which you fight with someone would look decidedly different if the conviction behind your opinions is entirely fake. it's not just THAT you and SR got into an argument, it's the sheer unbending dedication and unbridled annoyance coming from you at him not backing down
    hmm, good point about len's towniness here. i'm not quite sure how much i buy the "i'm investing into future game alignment reads" here, think it's valid but for the scope of this game i don't like it
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    Completed my reads are: jav: jav strong town: ara, shr,...

    my reads are:
    jav: jav

    strong town: ara, shr, len

    probably town: hammy

    probably scum: amy, ssr
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    Completed sort of confused as to why len keeps flip...

    sort of confused as to why len keeps flip flopping between jav is probably town and jav is definitely scum but also i'm a hypocrite cos i'm townreading len for letting go of the thing i was scumreading her for LMAO
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    Completed i'm not quite sure how outing vig is bad for town...

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#568)
    ##Vote Arapocalypse

    Tossing this over in my mind tbh wrt the vig thing because like, Amy has a strong point. Wolves really want to out the vig and not have a clear in the game tomorrow. Not fully sure I buy Ara didn't think of that, and it feels partly like in her explanations she doesn't acknowledge that because admitting this move was really +EV for the wolves looks bad for her

    @Ampharos
    @Javelinlover
    @superstarsrock

    Amy cuz I want your second opinion here

    Other two cuz you need to post and this is a thing to think on
    i'm not quite sure how outing vig is bad for town here, it made sense in my head. if we vote wrong today it's 4v2 and then vig can't shoot for fear of solo losing and next day wolves just claim vig lol and there's no clears. claiming vig today ensures that mafia can't cc for fear of being shot? can you explain why vig outing is +ev for wolves here
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    Completed hm, Arapocalypse thoughts on ssr? why the vote?...

    hm, @Arapocalypse thoughts on ssr? why the vote? you haven't actually said anything about him other than "not as strong of a townread as the others" also your readslist said "she" hasn't improved it referring to ssr which i'm not sure if it's just a typo or you swapping people around in your tierlist to seem more towny in your priorities
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    Completed forgot to mention that i don't think ara pushes...

    forgot to mention that i don't think ara pushes hammy if wolf partners together
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    Completed actually, maybe ara/ssr is possible? not quite...

    actually, maybe ara/ssr is possible? not quite sure, gonna reread ara iso
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    Completed ok so based off these posts from ara i have...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#68)
    Actually strike that, I actually do think it was sort of surprising to come from Dunnstral there, where it just feels overly serious in a way that vibed basically completely differently from where the thread was at, and just... is that really something you push on there confidently as town?

    Further reasoning included; just feels like a bit of a stretch in general!!!

    ##Vote Dunnstral

    Town do stupid stuff all the time anyways, case in point!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#79)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#70)
    So I'm 8 years late, but I'm here. Still figuring out how forums and stuff works.

    It seems Amy has voted me already based on the fact that I'm new and naturally I think I have to counterattack.
    ... If I can figure out how to. But maybe instead of doing a meme vote and wasting it this early (if I can't change it) I probably shouldn't do that.

    My reads so far is that Ara seems hype. Amy seems mean. Trying to figure out what's going on with jav, Chelsea, and Revenant.
    Not that late, all things considered, game only started just about 12 hours ago!!!!!

    Meme votes are perfectly fine, you can change them whenever you like!!!

    Have you got any sort of indication as to whether you'd lean me and/or Amy any particular alignment? Also, what are your thoughts in particular onn figuring out Jav/Chelsea/SR?

    As an aside, sort of curious: have you played any sort of social deduction-type games before? Stuff resistance/avalon, blood on the clocktower, secret hitler, Town of Salem... even among us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#151)
    Okay, here's roughly where I'm at, tiers alphabetical:

    Arapocalypse

    Fairly towny
    Chelsea
    Javelinlover
    - I feel like I maybe shouldn't have them this high up? But shrug, not going to overthink these tiers!!!!!

    Have had town pings but it's complicated
    superstarsrock
    - stuff like P#105 felt like generally good towny vibes from... the Jav read was one in particular which I felt was a towny expression of the read when taking into account those of others, though also why don't you want to place a real vote right now? Also I appreciate P#108 if you're town, but a not-insignificant portion of me is insisting it has to be a pocketing ploy!!!

    Have posted some things that at least meet the bar of towniness, don't have in-depth reads on
    Ampharos
    - Felt like entrance/approach to the thread was sort of towny? I thought it was perfectly fine and plausible to be coming from town; there's just not that much else to this read that makes me confident about it!!
    Dunnstral - He is a minor exception to the title of this tier, but he still fits here, it's just complicated; feels like the posts which he has made further in the thread have been indicative of what would make sense from a town!mindset, in short!!
    Secondhand Revenant
    the-middle-of-the-line
    - I found somewhat towny in general, but am doubting a little due to other people expressing suspicion here; actually, it sort of feels like I'm the only one around finding her towny? Which... is either very good or very bad, and not really sure which at the moment!!

    I guess this is everyone else???
    beeboy
    - So my earlier vote on him was more of a shrug vote, but I do actively dislike his more recent posts/feel like they come from a sort of forced perspective, particularly his push in P#122... yes he said he has trouble explaining it, but the overall thought just feels bluh and unenthused with town spirit!! That being said, the argument for vigging him is also solid, though I don't think he really counts as that inactive at this point!!!!
    Hammy - Technically here just because I haven't really found anything particularly towny about, but not really that enthused to go here today, regardless!!!

    Also, who's riri? Personally I've been trying to stick to in-game names, for clarity!!!

    Anyways, not really feeling overly confident about any of these, to be honest; think the only names I'd really feel good about defending come EoD are... maybe my first two tiers? Which is only three people, but that's also nearly half the game anyways so I'm fine with that for now!!!

    Mafia are big shrug, not really feeling like this is the sort of day where I may get to a confident one at all even... which is not exactly ideal; I have a feeling I'll end up on the wagon of someone in my third tier, anyways!!

    Unrelated, I recently managed to get the lector/heralds on 10-3 down with exactly 1 second over three minutes into it, so that's been fun!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#152)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#140)
    i don't buy that len's soulreading me wolf

    i think she's noticed that the thread's pretty lukewarm on me and thinks she can seed suspicion without necessarily getting her hands dirty

    probably indicates that the people lowest on me (hi claire) are more likely to be town
    Regarding the bolded, can you elaborate more on this? As in, do you think she would for sure soulread you as town if you're town or similar, or... what?

    Do you have any other thoughts on what she's posted so far, beyond "vague feels"?

    Speaking of which, you've also mentioned that you've never played together before!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#175)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#166)
    Ara in my mind continues to be hard town. No crazy accusations and solid lines of logic. Following what everyone says and making level headed judgments off of them.

    Claire seems fine. Still trying to get a read.

    Can't pin down beeboy on anything for the life of me.

    I agree with most that Len seems the most wolf. A lot of hard stuff coming out of someone who seems uncertain and just soul reading. Seems like a play to get more information without giving nearly any on top of pitting people against each other with her reads. On top of that, and this is almost all semantics, I find it almost too coincidental that the soul reads split a near even 4/5 of who's clear and who's not on what her initial gut feelings are. There are some of Len's opinions that drift towards neutral, but the strongest ones split evenly down a 4/5, which I don't like.

    Everyone else seems neutral. And I'll be real, I tried to follow Rev, but I've lost it and gone back to neutral on him. I'll try and reread and see if I can't get an opinion.
    What in particular makes you think "the most wolf" and what in particular reads like a play to get more information without giving nearly any? How does that differentiate from the "hard stuff" that other people have been making, with regards to reads?

    Where did you go on him before you went "back to neutral" on him?

    Also if you had to vote someone right now, who would you vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#324)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#280)
    p#122 was the one I liked. I think it's a pretty strong stance to take that early in the game for a w!beeboy who knows he's gonna be afk for reasons beyond typical w!beeboy reasons, and I like the bit of snarkiness that's accompanying it.

    If there's anything that holds me back from defending him harder it's his choice of target (I feel like choosing one of the people largely outside the meta circles for this purpose is kiiiind of a red flag?) and the last line, which may be delivered as a joke but serves to sort of undermine the post regardless - but maybe that's v!beeboy snark? idk.
    This is what I actively disagreed with; think I might have said so already, but it really doesn't feel like a strong stance at all, there!! A lot of the "kinda sorta maybe" language that reads as uncertainty that I'm not really getting as town uncertainty that much, as in it feels like more... testing the waters with regards to the suspicion there (particularly with the ending thing) versus the uncertainty of trying to figure out someone's alignment!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#366)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnstral (#355)
    Who is willing to vote for jav right now?
    Pretty not into that as an option currently, and probably would vote for several other people first!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#376)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#359)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnstral (#355)
    Who is willing to vote for jav right now?
    me but i think it's either you or her = a wolf rn

    so would be fine w/ voting either

    I think it's exactly w/v with how you two have been interacting
    -narrows eyes at bolded-

    Why not v/v, or why do you think that would be out of the realm of possibilities?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#411)
    ##Vote Hammy

    I don't really think thinking him having done a bus vote there makes sense, though!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#440)
    I got distracted from reading EoD by Hammy's ISO, which... I'm actually very lightly leaning town here I guess? The main points which stood out to me are:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#196)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#185)

    Wrt Evan I actually find it suspicious that his strongest scum read is me. It's a bit of an easy piggyback read to make given thread flow, after SR and Amy expressed suspicion and only Ara
    town read me. I'm a little concerned that Evan's only suspicions are based off of what people should or shouldn't know about him/and/or if they express suspicion about him. @Hammy I am not sure what I'm supposed to know about your play when you've literally never played before, pls explain
    That's totally fine to find me sus. And you're not wrong that my opinions were piggybacking off of points from others that resonated with me. But I was asked "Who's your biggest" and that was the answer. Upon more info or insight I could def change my answer.

    Basically, the whole crux of this issue lies on the dogpiling of my first post. I'm definitely not broken up about it or sad, but at the start of the thread everyone was basically keeping it light and doing memes and stuff as introductions, which is nice! Once I came around to posting, the discussion had already started going, but I felt it appropriate to still keep it light. Felt like I did a decent job at conveying the levity. So I was very taken aback when a handful of people were like "Oh, so you suspect Amy already now? You and Amy are wolfing together?" when it was literally almost the opposite. Apologies if that didn't come through.

    I know the flow of the game is to press everything, but from my perspective it's like "Dang, do I not get to say 'hey' and joke? That's nuts that we're bringing a microscope to something so small." I can see how it is an issue but surprised it got so big.


    The point of this game is to definitely learn about and solve people, and of course people don't have to know me just yet to throw sus and whatnot, but you know me 2nd best here so I thought the joke would be read. Even if we put up defenses as part of the game, that stuff isn't likely at all to come out in my first post. Wouldn't that make sense?

    I'll try to clarify later the best I can, but actually just like Len I'm hanging out with a friend and will be gone for a few hours. (they're right at my door) So see y'all in a bit!
    Basically, the bolded; just feels a lot like the thoughts are genuine in the sense where I can see where he'd be coming from with a town!Evan perspective which comes through fairly strongly in my opinion, particularly in terms of not really seeming that concerned about the suspicion on him!!!!

    Which yes, he's defending his words here, but.. feels like it's being done in a particularly towny, unconcerned/chill manner!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#301)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#243)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#140)
    i don't buy that len's soulreading me wolf

    i think she's noticed that the thread's pretty lukewarm on me and thinks she can seed suspicion without necessarily getting her hands dirty

    probably indicates that the people lowest on me (hi claire) are more likely to be town
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#142)
    there's more to my scumread on len than just a dislike of her soul read but a lot of it is vague ~feels~ and i kinda wanna get her back in here and see what's what before i talk about it
    I’m gonna admit I cheated a little and did a late night peak, but I saw later that the two reads you don’t wanna talk about much are me and Len for -reasons- while I can respect the method the day is coming to a close. Now, the read on me I don’t really care about since people seem to like having me around for some reason. Len on the other hand is someone who I’ll need you to shed some light on if you want my opinion on you to change. I’d like to consider myself a not very biased person, so if you gave me the bullet points I’d look at it in a very factual manner. Be warned though, if most of your argument is meta it probably won’t click with me that well.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#150)
    I suppose I can understand the concern, but I'm new! And I'm warming up as I gather info. For me, this is a lot to read, but I'm starting to form Opinions so I'll talk about other stuff soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#243)
    I’ll show a little mercy since you’re new in all, but I can assume you’ve played games of this type before. The thing I’m having trouble with here is what does being new have with you only focusing on Ampharos? I get there is a sense of comfort knowing a player but. . .that isn’t really something I’d expect from a-you know what I’ll let you answer maybe I’m just talking gibberish.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that I probably tunnelvisioned hard towards the beginning of my posts. My focus went from not sure how to gather information to I'm being accused (probably wrong word) due to Amy relations, to Dunn's damnation of Len. Those have been my focuses so far and it might be suboptimal play. But I don't fully see either how focusing on stuff relating to me is bad play either? Not sure one way or the other. It makes sense to me to zero in on stuff that's familiar and that I know.
    This is just... feels like an extremely towny level of self-awareness expressed; not really sure how much I can put that into words to elaborate!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#330)
    I think I'm caught up, that was a ride. I guess my main question is how a lot of people townread Len. I got lost on how her being angry = her being town. To me it seemed like two brick walls fighting and I couldn't glean anything new out of SR and Len fighting, but most are just like "Okay, that's super cool and town of both of them."
    Liked where he was coming from with regards to asking for clarification on the reads because for people accustomed to reading them... I personally feel like it gets easier to be able to shortcut it and sense when a v/v discussion is had, while obviously that's impossible if you don't know, and it just feels like the asking for clarification (without going into reads on the people) is solid!!!

    Yes, sure it could be him asking about it to cast suspicion on the reads, but strongly not getting that from this statement!!


    Anyways, there are other minor points, but I've only pulled out those posts as they're probably the more major ones!!!!

    Regarding his EoD (last three posts) though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#354)
    My sus is still Beeboy, Dunn and Len as the hardest, but apparently I'm super out of the loop so I'll refrain on Len.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#358)
    ##Vote beeboy

    From the info I have this seems like my soundest bet. It's hasty and I'm sorry!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#385)
    I'm actually kinda back on the Dunn train. Dunn's behavior has been consistent early game as Amy called out, but then ontop of the short responses it seems to me that Dunn is hopping on targets as they sway. Dunn was also in my top 3 so I can switch
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#388)
    ##Vote Dunnstral


    It's just... wow, I dislike this so much; but it's just that everything else seems reasonably towny, in the grand scheme of things? Which... yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at currently!!! Maybe it's TWTBAW, perhaps? -shrug-

    In short: lean town but the EoD sucks!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#445)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#433)
    Also currently I don't have any town reads LMFAO but after that EOD yesterday the closest to a town read would maybe be SR???
    Why is this, anyway?

    Also why jav from the Chelsea flip, when she had expressed interest in not voting them later on, if at least only for the day?

    Can you elaborate further on your Ampharos read?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#561)
    Okay, here's where I'm at, very very roughly ordered:

    Arapocalypse
    Secondhand Revenant

    Hammy - I've read every single post of his so far today and they've just gotten increasingly towny... yesterday sure, some of his posts seemed fairly good? But even if he were being coached here, there are just so many posts of his here that I simply find it exceedingly unlikely that he, as a first-time mafia player, is able to consistently and accurately portray that sort of town player for so many posts overall, up until now!!!! It's just the combination of various points that he's tried to go over, the way he talks about his reads/theorizes on the situation in further detail... I think I'm actually going to elaborate before the end of the day on this read, and also address some other posts of his; I feel like this is probably my more important/confident read of today, potentially!!!!

    the-middle-of-the-line - Aside from my personal read being somewhat comfortable here, I've also gone back through the SR/Len interaction, and going through SR's read of her as well... you have no idea how much that really helps in terms of shoring up my confidence level in this townread!!

    Javelinlover - Honestly, I don't think I've really wavered that much on this read, aside from concerns about too much mindmelding? I may potentially elaborate on this further before EoD as well, but it's just so many things... the points they've been making feeling fairly comfortable that I can understand/agree with

    Ampharos - While it started with me ???ing about her suspecting me off of my push for the vig to claim (the further reasoning for which I still think are meritless), it's just a lot of things recently/getting more confident about the three above that moved her down... trying to widen the PoE (which of course it has to be me for her, since she can't 180 on Hammy now and good luck/have fun trying to push Len), and the suspicion I've seen from her post-vig claiming feel... more like expressing pushes versus actual thinking someone is mafia, looking at the interactions with SR and Javelin!!

    superstarsrock - Fairly straightforward, main points being I've greatly strengthened my townreads on basically everyone but her, and the earlyish day 1 read is not enough at this point!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#562)
    I'm sorry that you're irritated about being forced to claim here, SR; maybe I'm the only one it actually helps in the end (even if it was just to quiet my mind) and if so... I'm sorry I'm being selfish, then!!!!

    I... sort of feel like maybe the team really is just superstarsrock/Ampharos here? And it also sort of helps that Javelin expressed that earlier as well... it just really concerns me because first of all when am I ever this right, and also second of all I was more going for a 3-person PoE versus a literal 2-person PoE as that's technically a bit more optimal, for which oops that just accidentally happened, I guess!!

    I mean, technically Javelin would be roughly in my third? It's just that I kept swapping around them/Len/Hammy around in my list above, and you're not really supposed to do that!!!!!

    ok so based off these posts from ara i have concluded that i don't think she's wolf. i think going into it, my first thought was that if ara is wolf then it's also hammy but looking at their interactions i don't know about that read. i think in all likelihood, if ara is wolf it's just me as her partner? but also i obviously know i'm town and ara did a lot of publically townreading me, and i'm not sure if she does that as scum, cos it would be, like REALLY blatant to the point where if i flip as scum i think she just instantly gets really scumread by like everyone. again i thought ara/hammy could have been a thing but i think with the interactions noted in the posts above i don't think it's a thing, cos the initial thing that was pinging me about a possible hammy/ara partnership was how much ara was questioning hammy, kind of mentor-like? but i think that is just ara town getting hammy to make reads, and the scumread on hammy and vote! was not wolf ara i think. however, right after the vote ara proceeds to townread hammy, which i think is mildly sus. i think if shr were still a ? for me i would say ara/shr cos all other interactions (ara questioning amy a LOT about really good things imo, ara townreading me a lot and bringing that into focus, ara/len is possible but think len overall town, ara/ssr probably not a thing cos ara bringing a lot of attention onto specific ssr posts) and also ara just in general trying to spark a lot of productive discussion soothes my paranoia of ara wolf
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    Completed will iso ara rn and look at this. just a sec

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#595)
    Does wolf Hammy push a Len/Ara world if he's wolf with Amy?

    Jav if Ara is wolf who is her partner?
    will iso ara rn and look at this. just a sec
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    Completed this is the progression of amy on len on d1 and i...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#148)
    hhh you asked about the two reads i have actual Reasons to hold back that aren't just pure laziness lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#149)
    to be clear: while i AM currently scumreading len, she's made a grand total of 8 posts. i'd like to further evaluate her behavior without it being influenced by any allegations i would otherwise make

    similar thing on claire, but in the opposite direction
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#155)
    Alright, sure, let's look at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#88)
    Len's soulreads (don't ask for any clarification or explanation because this is me trying to peer into people's souls, I don't know how to explain this but I think I'll get at least some right, I love doing this because Mangled Fern used to do this and had a pretty high accuracy rate)

    Ampharos - randed scum but is trying to be chill and have a good time with friends
    Arapocalypse - very excited to be town and aggressively pushes everything she can
    beeboy - randed town but forgot about the thread or randed scum and early posted because ??
    Chelsea - randed town, probably because has good pushes and I generally agree with her. This is the only not soulread because I don't think I can read Claire's soul.
    Dunnstral - either randed town and has awful tone or just randed scum
    Hammy - possibly randed scum with Amy and the first vote is just an elaborate w/w theatre
    Javelinlover - possibly randed scum and is trying to pocket SR
    Secondhand Revenant - either randed scum and is oowerwolfing by pushing Ara who's probably one of my strongest town reads or is being treated like town by jav which is like ???
    superstarsrock - randed town and is having a good time, seems pretty relaxed and excited to be here
    the-middle-of-the-line - mwah
    Note the scumreads on this list. Notably, note that mine is the only one that's phrased like the firm townreads - there's no mincing of words, there's no "possibly", I just randed scum. Seems like a safe bet to say that I should be her biggest scumread right now.

    Thing is, I don't... see that manifesting elsewhere in her ISO. She's asked me a question about the "stop making bad pushes" post I made, but it's a pretty weak question - think it's not too difficult to understand what I mean when I say "you shouldn't push Dunn for doing Dunn things", and I think that's an extremely weird aspect of that entire chain to choose to focus on. Her only other real comments about me are some nonsense about RVS that I can't even really parse?

    I think the fact that she was willing to word a read on me this strongly, but only in a post that she's intentionally downplaying and almost certainly intends to disown later, is a bad look. I think if she feels strongly enough about my alignment to make me the only firm wolfread in her soulreads list, she'd be more motivated to actually push that.

    And no, I've never played mafia with Len before, but I've argued with Len before, and I'm looking for some of the same things here :P
    this is the progression of amy on len on d1 and i think it's kind of funky. the reason she's holding back her reads was because she didn't want it to influence len's posts??? what?? how does that make any sort of sense and how does it help town at all? i think that len responding to amy is a good thing here because of the fact that amy *already made a scumread on len* for the soulreads list but refused to give any sort of reasoning further than that and refused to elaborate like


    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#142)
    there's more to my scumread on len than just a dislike of her soul read but a lot of it is vague ~feels~ and i kinda wanna get her back in here and see what's what before i talk about it
    ?????????????????????????????
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    Completed i $%#!ing love this post thank you for making it

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#591)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#588)
    SR, I've emptied my brain onto the page today. You agree with my reads. How do I help you get there on me? What are we missing here?

    It feels like every time I post you're like "hmmmm that's a good point but I think you're a wolf so..." and I tried rly hard not to get upset about it but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed.

    halfway tempted to say "just kill me and sheep my reads" ngl but I'm fundamentally opposed to self voting except to self hammer as scum so option 2 is that we gotta Get There

    need to eat or I'm gonna pass out, gimme a bit
    They're *reasonable* thoughts but that doesn't mean they're all there is to it? Like wrt Ara, she really tried hard to drive the thread forward when she didn't have to? I'm not sure you should be on her *except* for the vig thing and stuff surrounding that?

    It's not that I think your things are definitive, it's that I think you are able to make reasonable points worth consideration, but they don't make someone a wolf because there's other considerations to weigh against?
    i $%#!ing love this post thank you for making it
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    Completed first real read from ssr on someone that's not...

    Quote Originally Posted by superstarsrock (#188)
    Quote Originally Posted by beeboy (#122)
    I kinda think SSR is scum here but like unironically.
    I sorta feel like he is playing this game like it's a social game?

    His posts feel super like agreeable in a way I don't like? Kinda like he is playing this game as a social game rather then trying to solve people it's weird. I am having trouble explaining this so I just won't and will let someone else go "oh I agree" and finish the explanation for me.

    Although he put his community as Maidens of the Kaleidoscope which made me laugh so idk if I wanna push him.
    I like this from beeboy in that it doesn’t feel like the play that scum in his position would make. Can’t see a ton of logic in pushing a name like me as scum when there are definitely easier targets to try to flip to right now.

    I’ll follow with my only player meta read of the day though and say that if beeboy was lazy wolf and wanted to push someone then I am the EXACT person he would push.
    first real read from ssr on someone that's not just repeating thread, but it is on beeboy and he continues focusing on no one but beeboy for the rest of his posts iirc plus this thing is super waffly and reminiscent of the thing that people said they disliked about len's thing in that it's qualifying itself and being like "eh like maybe i'll be not really serious about this read hahaa it'sjust a prank bro" which i think is scummy
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    Completed i dislike the bolded section, like, a lot, cos i...

    Quote Originally Posted by superstarsrock (#105)
    atp this is where my head’s at:

    I don’t see what Amy did irt “oh this is how Dunn/ara/jav usually acts so take it with a grain of salt” as a scummy act in general, but I do understand Chelsea’s read on it sort of being a way to restrict reads based on those things which is something to keep an eye on (sidenote this and the post Len highlighted is why I townread Chelsea but also she’s horrible and I hate her so there my vote shall stay).

    Len’s soulread list feels to me like a way to get out reads on people but if people don’t like them/challenge them she can just go “haha guys those were just my feelings of them at the time and they weren’t solid reads,” which I don’t really love but maybe that’s just what she does. It does give me a basis to work off for how she’s reading the game which is always nice.

    I feel like a lot of people are making snap reads on Dunn for his tone but I can’t really see a argument for why any of what he’s done as inherently scummy besides getting hung up for a bit long on jav’s $%#!posting tendencies, and even then he’s just calling out someone who’s been actively fillering.

    Speaking of jav, I get that she’s mostly messing around here but most of the game has moved on to talking and making reads while she’s continuing to distract from discussions aside from a productive comment or two here and there and has defended it with “none of what I’ve said so far is serious” which is uhhh, yeah. If I were to place a real vote right now it’d be on her. jav please start playing the game and tell us what you’re thinking besides townreading everyone for the meme (also bg when)

    I’ve liked ara’s tone and they’ve made generally sensible reads so far but I don’t really have any strong feel on them either way so far, also inactive vote is zzz.

    I remember liking SR’s Dunn read but I don’t actually remember anything else he’s said so far, I’ll look back but there’s nothing else from reading through that stood out? Would like to see more here so I can form this better.

    Also waiting for beeboy and hammy to show up : pleading_face:
    i dislike the bolded section, like, a lot, cos i think that's like almost borderline word for $%#!ing word what amy said earlier.

    didn't like his post on what he said about me cos again it's exactly what the entire thread was saying, plus iirc i had actually started playing at that point and he just kind of?? ignored it lol? maybe it was post time differences.

    townreading riri which was ALSO what most of thread was doing.

    in conclusion very little indep thought here whcih i don't like
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    Completed this was the major one that i liked iirc? i liked...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#575)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#572)
    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#570)
    OKAY FINALLY

    alright so let me try to explain where my head was at last eod for @Hammy and anyone else curious

    I saw Dunn and jav both as suspicious, primarily b/c Dunn had what to me looked like a very narrow focus and pushed on people who were more low hanging fruit, for small things like mentioning being in Canada for SSR, and mentioning the not reading the role pm thing for jav. I sort of noticed a pattern that was sus to me b/c while a lot of ppl seemed to be saying Dunn = srs was Dunn being himself, I find Dunn not rlly srs that much b/c I mostly play league with him. Thus, I was basically scum reading Dunn all day yesterday. What made me hesitate and move off during EOD and really push for a vote on you, Evan, was b/c you hadn't really substantiated a read on Dunn moreso than your other scum reads on me and beeboy, who both are town. To me this made feel suspicious that you were maf and pushing really easy low effort things, kind of like what jav was saying that you were "being gaslit" by the thread although that's not how I would put it.

    Honestly that was kind of weird phrasing to me and that part of @Javelinlover 's post stuck out to me b/c the being gaslit by the thread seemed to indicate that evan was being misled by the thread, and not really pushing a wolf agenda?? when jav was also reading evan at the time. When jav first made that post, I really liked it b/c I thought hey, jav agrees w/ me about how wolfy evan is wrt how he's been approaching the thread and pushing what looked like easy pushes. But the more I thought about it, the more I found that sus b/c of the phrasing esp, which is why i questioned her about it initially.

    Think I need to reread the Ara asking ppl to claim vig part that I missed when I was asleep, but on a first glance I really dislike it b/c I think if anyone that wasn't in the sus seat is vig, then why claim it?

    And yeah, SR being the vig makes sense to me, which is rlly unfortunate b/c he's basically my top town read rn. I don't think that SR needed to claim at all, and Ara was giving off very "i'm not the vig" vibes by essentially asking ppl to claim.

    This also brings further weight to my tinfoil theory i had last night after flips that wolves were ara/jav, which I elaborated a little on before based on early d1 interactions.

    I also need to read some of the Hammy posts b/c i think i didn't understand some of those fully.
    i thought wolf hammy was succumbing to mafia tendencies to follow the thread of town instead of pushing his own thoughts and reads and that’s what i found scummy. i think that people who just go along with what the majority is saying without citing reasoning like hammy did tend to be scum and that’s why i used the words “gaslit by thread” sorry if that’s kind of a weird way to put it but it was my take on what was going on there.

    is there anything else you’re scumreading me for here? lmk if i can clarify
    yes, I don't have time to quote it rn exactly but

    can you please explain the one post where I basically asked you to read both SR and Amy, and it seemed like you said something like "at first glance SR seems more scum than not" based off of agenda (I may be misrembering) but then you said after going through his ISO, he came off as lightly town to you?

    Also the other trhinigs that stuck out to me were you saying that both Amy and SR were aligning with what they usually were doing, which is a part of why I initially scum read Amy (for saying my friends are doing the behavior they are normally doing which means they are towny). I think Ara called you out on this (that an argument could be made either way wrt someone doing x being something they usually do and that makes them towny b/c other ppl don't necessarily know them oog/meta) and I liked her read on that at the time.

    Ngl I'm starting to like also consider an Ara/Hammy world, esp based off recent posts, although I don't think it would make any sense for w Ara to vote w Hammy at eod and risk Hammy flip.

    whoughts?

    sorry lots of typos i'm rushing
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#183)
    Like Hammy, pretty strong town lean. Especially like the thing wrt expectations of dunn amy len

    Wrt bee and ssr sorta feel like I expect ssr to come in that way anyways? But idk ssr's mafia game just ssr seems like the type to just be agreeable like that as tone

    Think Claire feels good tbh. I get her points on Amy since I did feel a bit the same and there's like other thoughts there rn. Idt she would be w/w with len here tho and the Amy thing is more of "Its possible" than a wolf read for anything she did
    this was the major one that i liked iirc? i liked the townread on riri and the townread on hammy, felt like the parsing was going sequentially and well. ohter things that shr did that i liked were during the fight lmao shr kind of stood his ground instead of giving in and i think that takes a strong villa mindset to do? is also the reason i was initially reading you (len) as town cos of it and then you started harping on about the dunn accusing me thing meant i was wolf since dunn flipped town kind of thing when i think that's $%#!ing bull$%#! lmao

    iirc i also thought riri kill was a mindgame thing because why wouldn't you just kill ara since a bunch of the thread was townreading her and amy was the first to talk about possible things read off riri death, felt like a preplanned push factoring in night kills. i didn't like that. iirc i also started being paranoid about ara in this post? cos i was like why didn't they just kill ara lmao there are two possibilities and it's that 1) mindgames 2) ara wolf
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    Completed how did you go from this to "ah yeah jav is most...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#107)
    what i mean by "doing jav things etc" is that i think the people i named were largely being voted for doing things that they'd do as either alignment - i think it's entirely personality/playstyle stuff

    and i largely hate getting caught up arguing semantics over playstyle reads, unless said reads are being used to form a more informed alignment opinion
    how did you go from this to "ah yeah jav is most definitely scum for not posting"
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    Completed ok here are the questions nvm lol your takes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#467)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#456)
    hey i'm busy for this entire phase because lmao $%#! essays but

    i just wanted to say i was asleep for dl last day and i was pissed the $%#! off at len accusing me of being wolf just because dunn scumread me. like i'm fine with being scumread for things that i've done but saying that dunn/me is a v/w type of interaction doesn't make any sense at all because you are literally scumreading me for something someone else did and there still has been no clarification on why you have this read len and i'd like to hear it. anyways that's just something i was thinking after phase end cos i was reading thread after it ended.

    currently from skimming the thread i am actually questioning a lot of my townreads ngl. y'all have my paranoid as $%#!. i can't form an opinion on amy cos she's not throwing takes out and the shr read on amy seems to be based off some $%#!in voodoo magic idek? something about tinfoil? can someone explain to me what that means and how claire flipping town (which was evident) sheds light on amy alignment? i'm maintaining my slight townread on shr but i do think that ssr/shr is actually possible as a scum duo. wrt shr i think my townread is mostly based off things that i go "yeah that tracks" with thought process but as i said before i have enough respect for people like shr's mafia game that i don't think i could say for sure that he is town for reasonings i would for other non shramyara people. speaking of ara, my townread on her is wavering and i am considering the fact that she might be?? leading people towards particular lines of discussion? i think i would need to iso her for this, but she is still my current strongest townread. kinda sus that ara didn't die and riri/chelsea/claire did, ngl, cos iirc literally everyone was thinking ara was town. this is part of the reason why my townread is wavering. wrt riri death: i feel like this is a suboptimal move for wolves, ngl?? i assume beeboy was the vig shot. because so many people were kind of vaguely halfsies on riri, i feel like the flip was a strategic one and feel like perhaps might indicate shr as scum cos he was the first one to push off night info and it was a pretty blatant push. actually i jsut reread that interaction and realized amy was the first one to bring up riri death. ok so slight scumread on amy shr can keep his townread. wrt len i feel like she kind of came into the game biased by the whole "jav didn't read their role pm" discourse and is tunneling a bit now, cos i feel like i have at least tried to be as helpful as possible wrt giving out reads of my own and giving reasoning for it in my more recent posts and she still says that my posts are a "sea of dislikes" like could you quote things you disliked so i can either explain them or like at least have a reason for you scumreading me other than lol dunn scumread u so since he's town you're scum. think len is leaning scum for me now cos she won't provide reasoning for this read after i posted a lot of things basically begging to be responded to. i don't wanna cause a fight tho. wrt ssr: hard to read such low activity. wrt hammy: same, but has the vibe of a person who is at least trying to genuinely give thoughts
    I have Thoughts on the second paragraph but I'm going to hold them for now.

    After having FINALLY gotten my adhd to sit still long enough to read the third paragraph... it's certainly very stream-of-consciousness, but I think that's just Jav Gonna Jav. There are some things I think are underexplained that I need further clarification on, but at the very least I guess this is a pretty decent view of jav's perspective on the gamestate?

    It's a very... waffly view, though. They seem to waver on whether or not they think I'm a wolf or SR is. They express uncertainty at what Claire flipping has to do with my alignment, and then scumread me bringing up Claire's death later down the paragraph. The only consistent point in here seems to be that they think Len is wolfy for tunneling them, and the hard nulls on SSR and Hammy. I'm also a little curious about why I wound up being the vote after this post.

    Overall I don't think this post is like... egregious, or anything, but I also don't think it's out of "just making things up off the top of their head" range, and that bothers me.

    @Javelinlover some questions (actually a fair few questions, sorry in advance):
    - when you say I'm "not throwing out takes", do you mean in general or just today? what's your read on me when taking yesterday into account?
    - why is SR/SSR a possible scum duo?
    - what particular lines of thought do you think Ara is leading people towards?
    - what made you decide to vote for me instead of Len?
    - this isn't TECHNICALLY a question, but: I would like to see you at least try to form a read on SSR, because his postcount is low but there are a fair number of words in those posts and I think he's very readable rn
    ok here are the questions nvm lol

    your takes so far have been very “ah yes this is standard [blank] except when it comes to hammy and ssr, and so i was really confused as to why you refused to give reads on riri and len even when i explicitly asked for your opinions on them

    i initially thought it was shr and ssr because i was scumreading both of them, but upon reading shr’s posts in one of my snap take analyses i started townreading him for making valid takes and original takes with evidence provided unlike a lot of people who are just going “oh this is meta” sorry not sorry

    i was rereading ara’s messages and it occurred to me that she was focusing a lot on hammy/amy and questioning them a lot, which was kind of ??? for me

    i promised to do this this morning but i am currently working on the final essay that will determine whether i fail this class or not so i delayed that a tiny bit. i will do it now just a sec
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    Completed this is the first post where amy expressed a scum...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#464)
    @Arapocalypse

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#431)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#425)
    well at least i don't have to waste today tinfoiling claire

    weird eod, think hammy is still town

    ##Vote superstarsrock

    pending more gameplay later
    Can you elaborate on your thoughts on Hammy/EoD in general?

    Also, in general: what are your thoughts on your own play this game so far? Are you surprised/not surprised at being suspected, at this point?

    Speaking of which, I still haven't read that back yet, been meaning to for ages; probably doing so in a bit!!
    On Hammy: call it a twtbaw read if you want, but I think Hammy is at least vaguely aware that erratic behavior and poor logic will come across as wolfy. Be that as it may, I think a Hammy wolf eod looks WAY more deliberate than the one we just saw. FMPOV it felt like Hammy was a villager who felt pressured to participate as best he could, despite maybe not having the FIRMEST grasp of how best to do so.

    I called him town before he made p#450 but that post is just. So good. This game was a good idea I am enjoying this very much.

    On EoD in general: I think it was obvious that I Wasn't Really Feeling a Dunn wagon and am still not ENTIRELY sure why he got clowned on. There did come a point where I thought his defending me was a little strange, but I certainly would rather have dunked ssr. There was also this latent undercurrent of Amy wolfread that seemed to be propelling the Dunn wagon to an extent, and like... why not go for me, if your wolfread on Dunn is largely contingent on him defending me? I simultaneously got more AND less suspicion than I expected to be getting and it was Weird.

    Thoughts on my own play: A lot of that depends on how ssr flips, heh. Readswise I'm kinda sorta 3/3 on calling the flipped villagers villagers? Dunn most arguably, since I voted him, but that was almost purely to save Hammy. Beeboy I feel pretty decent that my snap take on him was correct and somewhat less decent that he got shot. Claire... well, like I said. I was prepared to sus her coming into today, because my townread was still not quite fully developed and I thought her pushing me so Confidently, only to flip onto Dunn and say "we can get Amy later" felt preeeeeetty bad. But, uh, never voiced that in thread, so I'm taking the W

    Outside of that, like... idk. As You Know, I've been having an extremely obnoxious time getting townread of late, and I really just wanna grill people and be like "well what the hell do you THINK I'd be doing as town here? what do you THINK town Amy looks like?" But it's zen. I'm zen. I've put a lot of words into the thread and I'm not sure what else I can do besides continue to insert more, and I told myself going in that I was going to try Very Hard to take this game easy and not tilt, cause I think that would be a bad look after I was the one who bent over backwards to set this game up to begin with.

    I'm not necessarily Surprised at being sussed. More of a "here we go again" sort of deal, and I definitely expected SR to double down (if he didn't die, which I kiiiiiinda thought he would). Do I think it's warranted? Not really, no, because the reasons Claire scumread me are things I already explained and the things SR scumreads me for are... as far as I can tell, all either kinda thin or sheeping Claire? Unsure. I do wanna grill SR on that and force him to develop his thoughts a bit further. Beyond that, we'll workshop it.

    ---

    @the-middle-of-the-line

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#433)
    Amy, who else do you think needs to be examined besides SSR? Also what do u make of SR scum reading you? I'd also like your thoughts on a possible jav/Ara world esp since I know you voiced suspicion of Ara early on in the game.
    See above for SR scumread thoughts.

    On who else to examine: I would argue most everyone, given that there's 2 wolves out of 7 people, which means everyone's looking at max 4 other villagers outside themselves. I realize that's a copout answer and am about to give a real one but I think it's time for Due Diligence.

    So here's a list of living players:

    Arapocalypse
    Hammy
    Javelinlover
    Secondhand Revenant
    superstarsrock
    the-middle-of-the-line

    Hammy I really just think is town. ssr I really just think is a wolf. The fun comes in the other 4. Think I'd rank them Ara > you > SR >> jav from towniest -> wolfiest.

    So that's a long-winded way of saying "yeah I think we should be looking at jav today". The time for "let's see how she does just vibing" has passed, the time for "let's be obnoxious mafia players on that front" has begun.

    On possible jav/Ara world: I will admit that I think IF Ara is a wolf it is EXACTLY with jav - I think if Ara got shot and flipped red right this second I would snapvote jav off readslist placement alone, and I haven't even looked too closely at Ara/jav's interactions. Would expect w!Ara to powerwolf with her teammate as hard as physically possible, since you barely need any miselims in a game this small to bring it home.

    That said... at the moment, I don't see w!Ara. I think she's been constantly driving the game forward, and while that's certainly not out of her wolfrange I think the way in which she's been doing it is born of a villagery puzzle-solving mindset rather than of a wolf bullshitting mindset, more off vibes than anything else. I also think the shape of her thoughts very much resemble Real Things that I think Ara would be pursuing were she attempting to solve here. I recognize that this read is obnoxiously vague and meta-based and I apologize, but it is what it is.
    this is the first post where amy expressed a scum stance on me after not mentioning it for the entire day yesterday, presumably because of the “let them vibe” stance even tho i was like trying to actively solve and people didn’t really respond to my views other than like shr and ara. i don’t understand what i did in the period between start of game and this post to be amy’s #1 scumread, it just seemed to pop up out of nowhere. is it just that i was the least towny? you claim that you asked me a bunch of questions but the most you said prior to this was that it was jav things to joke around like i did and that you were waiting to form a read on me.
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    Completed i thought wolf hammy was succumbing to mafia...

    Quote Originally Posted by the-middle-of-the-line (#570)
    OKAY FINALLY

    alright so let me try to explain where my head was at last eod for @Hammy and anyone else curious

    I saw Dunn and jav both as suspicious, primarily b/c Dunn had what to me looked like a very narrow focus and pushed on people who were more low hanging fruit, for small things like mentioning being in Canada for SSR, and mentioning the not reading the role pm thing for jav. I sort of noticed a pattern that was sus to me b/c while a lot of ppl seemed to be saying Dunn = srs was Dunn being himself, I find Dunn not rlly srs that much b/c I mostly play league with him. Thus, I was basically scum reading Dunn all day yesterday. What made me hesitate and move off during EOD and really push for a vote on you, Evan, was b/c you hadn't really substantiated a read on Dunn moreso than your other scum reads on me and beeboy, who both are town. To me this made feel suspicious that you were maf and pushing really easy low effort things, kind of like what jav was saying that you were "being gaslit" by the thread although that's not how I would put it.

    Honestly that was kind of weird phrasing to me and that part of @Javelinlover 's post stuck out to me b/c the being gaslit by the thread seemed to indicate that evan was being misled by the thread, and not really pushing a wolf agenda?? when jav was also reading evan at the time. When jav first made that post, I really liked it b/c I thought hey, jav agrees w/ me about how wolfy evan is wrt how he's been approaching the thread and pushing what looked like easy pushes. But the more I thought about it, the more I found that sus b/c of the phrasing esp, which is why i questioned her about it initially.

    Think I need to reread the Ara asking ppl to claim vig part that I missed when I was asleep, but on a first glance I really dislike it b/c I think if anyone that wasn't in the sus seat is vig, then why claim it?

    And yeah, SR being the vig makes sense to me, which is rlly unfortunate b/c he's basically my top town read rn. I don't think that SR needed to claim at all, and Ara was giving off very "i'm not the vig" vibes by essentially asking ppl to claim.

    This also brings further weight to my tinfoil theory i had last night after flips that wolves were ara/jav, which I elaborated a little on before based on early d1 interactions.

    I also need to read some of the Hammy posts b/c i think i didn't understand some of those fully.
    i thought wolf hammy was succumbing to mafia tendencies to follow the thread of town instead of pushing his own thoughts and reads and that’s what i found scummy. i think that people who just go along with what the majority is saying without citing reasoning like hammy did tend to be scum and that’s why i used the words “gaslit by thread” sorry if that’s kind of a weird way to put it but it was my take on what was going on there.

    is there anything else you’re scumreading me for here? lmk if i can clarify
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    Completed ok i didn’t realize/didn’t read your questions i...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#549)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#547)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#545)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#541)
    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
    ssr/ara is the least likely world of the 3, as i just detailed; still working on exactly where i stand between you/ara and you/ssr

    i recognize that you asked me about what i dislike in your posts and i've been somewhat dancing around it; that's largely because i've been trying to figure out how to word it most properly. i think my biggest thing is that i'm feeling somewhat of a lack of continuity/macro gamesense from your posts, and i think you'd be able to more effectively visualize the Bigger Picture as a villager.
    why not push harder on me then if i am the common thread between the two more likely pairs? i feel like you are just lightly scumreading me for some vague reason like you don’t like my posts and aren’t really pushing hard on me even tho i am your strongest scumread rn? like the current people scum reading me are you and len mostly and len also did the same vague don’t like my posts bs without telling me what you don’t like so i can explain my thought process

    wrt discontinuity of posts thing i always post immediately after reading the thread basically and just posting a tldr of my thoughts cos i really don’t have time to do anything more than that. however i think i give good citations as to where my feelings change usually, not with specific post counts but i have been saying like key phrases from various posts and explaining why those change my reads and i don’t get what you don’t like about that.

    i’m not quite sure what i am supposed to be doing here to be not scumread and at this point i think my most productive option is just to die because then you can read off my flip lmao
    i have been asking you questions (speaking of which, i dropped you a bunch last night and you never replied) and am currently voting you; am not sure what else you mean by pushing if not that? my issue with your posts isn't on micro level $%#!, it's broader overall process things that are harder to elicit a direct response from, hence why i've been trying to gauge your mindset in other areas instead

    i don't have any issue with you posting your thoughts in snap take format but it feels like you... don't consider the larger implications of your reads, at all. especially with this me/ssr thing, i just. i don't understand how you think that's a viable team? like i KNOW you know how to read a gamestate, you're damn good at eimm, i would expect you to be on the lookout for when people look like they're working together and when they obviously aren't. the fact that all your wolfreads exist in a vacuum is a red flag to me

    the best thing you can do to help me find you as town is to A. answer my questions lol and B. just continue to play the game, post your thoughts, shore up your reads on other people, generally show me that you're looking for the wolves.

    i'm probably done for the night, wanna hold posts for tomorrow (especially since i'll be getting my 2nd shot and won't really have anything better to do beyond that)
    ok i didn’t realize/didn’t read your questions i think and i will answer then tomorrow morning.

    the reason why eimm is different from mafia wrt reading gamestates is that you have an active reason to distance from people you’re working with in mafia and i can’t know role interactions in mafia and it’s hard to gauge whether people are working together when they’re either actively trying to not seem close or actively trying to stay neutral and so that kind of thing is different for me and i don’t think it’s a comparable thing. the reason why my wolfreads exist in a vacuum is because i don’t know enough about everyone’s playstyles here to analyze how people are interacting and whether that exists as a partnership or not because i haven’t been highly looking at that kind of thing. i have been trying to not do the thing that i said pissed me off, aka read people off other people’s actions that that person had nothing to do with.

    and i am looking for the wolves but i’m not sure how to give my thoughts when people don’t trust me for reasons beyond my control lmao. i can’t control that dunn scumread me and flipped villager. not like i can time travel to the past and undo my haha didnt read my role pm im so $%#!ing quirky lolz!!! post like bruh

    i have my opinions on the individual players and maybe my larger gamestate reads don’t coincide with yours because i’m looking more at individual posts rather than the thread as a whole. just because i don’t agree with you doesn’t mean i’m scum lmao
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    Completed why not push harder on me then if i am the common...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#545)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#541)
    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
    ssr/ara is the least likely world of the 3, as i just detailed; still working on exactly where i stand between you/ara and you/ssr

    i recognize that you asked me about what i dislike in your posts and i've been somewhat dancing around it; that's largely because i've been trying to figure out how to word it most properly. i think my biggest thing is that i'm feeling somewhat of a lack of continuity/macro gamesense from your posts, and i think you'd be able to more effectively visualize the Bigger Picture as a villager.
    why not push harder on me then if i am the common thread between the two more likely pairs? i feel like you are just lightly scumreading me for some vague reason like you don’t like my posts and aren’t really pushing hard on me even tho i am your strongest scumread rn? like the current people scum reading me are you and len mostly and len also did the same vague don’t like my posts bs without telling me what you don’t like so i can explain my thought process

    wrt discontinuity of posts thing i always post immediately after reading the thread basically and just posting a tldr of my thoughts cos i really don’t have time to do anything more than that. however i think i give good citations as to where my feelings change usually, not with specific post counts but i have been saying like key phrases from various posts and explaining why those change my reads and i don’t get what you don’t like about that.

    i’m not quite sure what i am supposed to be doing here to be not scumread and at this point i think my most productive option is just to die because then you can read off my flip lmao
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    Completed amy in your three what do you think the most...

    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
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    Completed i promise i’m not, i thought it was a bit odd but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#538)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#537)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#499)
    I hate this obnoxious forced outing, but it's probably obvious I ignored it and it makes me anxious that it makes me obvious anyways so I'll just out that I'm the vig, that was probably a massive waste since I wasn't dying today anyways and I doubt someone wins a cc there, tho I was trying to hide it with the way I was discussing Claire claim on Amy

    Almost shot Amy, chickened out, immediately regretted it on Claire flip
    ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but chickened out and instead shot claire and regretted it on the flip” my b
    I'm not convinced you're not trying to get me to derp clear you for seeming to think I could have shot Claire
    i promise i’m not, i thought it was a bit odd but i wasn’t paying attention to your reads n1 and thought maybe you could’ve been paranoid about her and that was the end of my thought process
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    Completed ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#499)
    I hate this obnoxious forced outing, but it's probably obvious I ignored it and it makes me anxious that it makes me obvious anyways so I'll just out that I'm the vig, that was probably a massive waste since I wasn't dying today anyways and I doubt someone wins a cc there, tho I was trying to hide it with the way I was discussing Claire claim on Amy

    Almost shot Amy, chickened out, immediately regretted it on Claire flip
    ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but chickened out and instead shot claire and regretted it on the flip” my b
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The Fabricator may each night pass out a fake Bulletproof vest (1-shot immunity against a nightkill) or a fake gun (1-shot day vigilante shot) to another player in the game. If someone fires their fake gun, the shooter will die instead. The fake vest will not protect the player who received it.