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  1. Day 4#4490

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Last post for me in this phase. I don't know if...

    Last post for me in this phase. I don't know if I'll make it for end of day.

    My answer is to kill Visor. It doesn't matter if he's peeked or not, he's still the most likely wolf.

    I would then kill Phighter. People will say he's villagery for "it'd be crazy to do X as a wolf" reasons and they will be wrong/wolves.

    I would then kill Jan and Thingy. I am unsure of my order here. Maybe Jan first? Who knows? We'll be near Halloween by then.

    I have extensively written about those four. I think those 4 are all wolves and I feel really good about that. If you missed it, a mega post was made here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...95#post3562995

    Then kill Frog. Frog gives a $#@! about things happening in the game when he's a villager.

    Then kill Boq.

    After that it's shrug. I might be tunneling on Mask but I didn't find their reads post villagery. I thought having only Visor as a wolf read in that post is really sketchy. You have plenty of time until you have to make a decision there though so whatever and I don't have any experience with them so I'm not the most confident there.

    Then is Bop/SS if game is still going with a slight preference to SS going first.

    This is the line between my "people I'd see die" list and my "I think these people are villagers" list.

    As of now, I'm just assuming the claims are legit because, well, we've lost anyways if they aren't given the game state.

    If phighter is a wolf, clear owner. She kept suggesting he was SK and that's just not what wolves do to teammates imo.

    I think Shad's posting has been good and feel fine with them being a villager.

    Toms post to Phighter about "billy did the same approach you did to a t, why dont you find it villagery" was a solid post.

    Cron and Panther have been nipping at each other, but I feel fine with them.

    Billy's claim and unclaim and explanation seem fine to me as well.








    If this is it for me (either via lynch or night kill) well I did my best. I hope I did good - and right now I feel pretty comfortable with the worldview I've built - but if I didn't sorry. I tried hard, subbed into a widely wolf read slot, and feel like I showed mostly everyone that I was a villager. Lots of good people in this game, a really pro wolf structure (the 5 days + 10 max posts per day combo , not the actual set up. I think making it 25 posts per real life day would make this pretty much solid though. It's been nice to have time to digest things, step away from the thread, and not worry about $#@!), and subbing in makes things hard.

    I've had a good time playing. My bad again to Yog (who i think is a strong, strong villa read) for earlier. Been kinda pissy lately overall but not your fault. It's been fun to solve with Panther and if he's a wolf well, that's alright, you got me.

    If this isn't the end for me then I'll likely see you Tuesday night where we'll start it all over again (hopefully with a wolf flip and more certainty on how views).



    Much love
  2. Day 4#4462

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Mask, Who are the wolfy players? Who are the...

    Mask,

    Who are the wolfy players? Who are the villagery players? Can you leave mechanics entirely out of it for this one exercise please? I just want to know who you think has been posting well and who has been posting poorly along with why. I can't shake the feeling that you're digging into mechanics stuff because it's easier to talk about as a wolf than reads are (I know I've done that before plenty of times!). I'd like for you to be a villager cause you were one of the first villager reads I gave in this game so please help me clear my mind.

    For example, I've been pushing a Visor, Phighter, Thingy, Jan world for a while. How do you feel about their posting? Where are my errors if there are any? I've also been calling Yog, Weatherguy, Cron, Panther, and Roman villagers. Do you agree with those? If not, who and why?

    Help me solidify your spot in my head so I can settle in on a final reads list because with the way Visor was talking about me and then voted me, I'm think there's a good chance I'm getting blasted tonight if he's a wolf and I'd like to have a final read on you.

    - - - - - - - -

    Cron, Panther: You two might be right on the other one (its what happens when you get a bunch of good players together and a 10 posts per real life day restriction going, some people post well and are wolves) but at this point I think it's more likely that you two are just villagers suffering from the frustration of - I reiterate - five real life days between any information and getting paranoid. Both of you have been working hard at various points in this game trying to solve the game.

    - - - - - - - -

    One post left
  3. Day 4#4407

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread So I've got three more posts but I cannot post...

    So I've got three more posts but I cannot post tomorrow or Sunday so I'm going to jam them out today. This post is a long, hopefully thorough breakdown of the gamestate from my perspective.


    I have the following people as wolves:


    Visor:

    Peeked by Robik. Was a pretty consensus-y wolf prior to peek with him being the preferred target for those that felt SR was a villager. Arguments defending him only argue against being peeked because of Robik doing whatever “Robik things” means. None of the defenses find his posting villagery, attempted to work through the game with him, or care what he's actually saying. They just argue that he isn't peeked and so he shouldn't be voted out. These people are on somewhere on the line between silly and wolves.



    Phighter:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4367)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#4365)
    Why is Phighter a wolf?

    Unless NL's a wolf and billymills isn't. Then something something seer hunt ngl
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4127)
    I have seen multiple people float the idea that "Phighter isn't a wolf because that claim doesn't make sense for a wolf to do because it doesn't have a high success rate" without factoring in that Phighter is a fun wolf that has no problem making plays, trying to out power roles, and has the utmost confidence in himself to be able to talk out of sticky situations. He's a pretty fun person to wolf with and village against. What I'm saying is, if you're clearing Phighter for some levely reads on how likely he is to "subtly" hint at being a power role, you probably shouldn't and instead focus on the things they have done/people they've voted/people they've defended/etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4185)
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#4178)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4171)
    @Panther, SS became a stronger wolf read of mine after this entire exchange which all happened in one sitting (so it wasn't like a lot changed between them). Let me know where you land on it all please. I am well aware that I have too many wolves at this point and would love to be able to cross one out.



    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi

    @SwedishSkumbag can you elaborate on your visor read?

    Putting all of manasi, jan, and secondhand revenant as wolves seems lazy.

    Have you looked at eod1, have you picked favorite wagons, or are you just going to pick all the wagons?

    That SS reads list is gross and I'm mildly concerned.

    CFD VISOR

    uhhh

    ##Vote Visorslash

    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it

    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.

    yea i know. so?

    it's not a post i'd clear him off of, just a villagery spark after the rest of his ISO being meh. it makes me probably not want to lynch him over some other ppl in that tier today tho

    And what is with that hedgy post defending visor

    ##Vote Jan

    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi



    well this is clear as a bell

    He gives a direct town-read of visor, votes for Billy no-votes Jan, then puts visor as a wolf read

    He couldn't keep his read of visor straight over a seven-minutes span and placed a throwaway vote he knows has no chance to roll

    gottem

    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?

    Lol

    just threw this out there at random, did you

    Trying to smooth over the uh-oh

    dont think he's given any read-related thoughts in his ISO that makes me think "i think this is more likely to come from a villager than a wolf". just easy stuff and easy questions.

    Think the 1 post i quoted about him saying that his strongest read is the claimed Vig and that sucking etc etc seemed genuine which makes me move him over some in my bottom tier but not enough to truly townread him

    No way dudebro

    If Visor's a wolf the logical disconnect here is w/w for sure

    -oh snap, just got in and there's a red check on my bro
    -wait, it's a soft claim, there's still a chance
    -better give him a quick villa read
    -throw together a reads list, need to put some bros at the bottom, visor will do
    -uh oh
    -have to reconcile that disconnect, better make another confused-sounding villa read for visor post

    ...


    Don't know if Cron is FPSing

    and obviously he said "if I have one" so it's pretty soft

    some of you might have heard I have a particular way of feeling about fake red checks

    but if it ends up being legit this is a bro
    I don't fail to see your concerns. Honestly, that Visor post tugged on my strings a little too in real time, so I don't fault him for that

    And I certainly don't agree with yog's GOTCHA approach. more align with chris's general "I think that explanation is fine"
    like yog's take is he knows visor is a wolf but thought he might be able to redeem visor with a "this is villagery" response to a non-reads-related post? that's never w!SS's intent there if they are w/w, and I just don't think that's likely vs. "that post sounds villagy, but there really is no game-substance reason to think he's a villager so POE bottom tier" result

    my biggest problem is that his read list is nearly upside down from mine and I think I'm right. I don't think that makes him a wolf though and might even argue it makes him less likely to be a wolf

    Jim - your bottom 5 are in my bottom 8 (and may actually be my ordered bottom 5; left the second to last group alphabetical). can you look at my stuff and tell me about the other bottom 3 of mine (you can leave out owner) and/or who you think I might be misclearing in the top 15 there
    Re: Phighter I'm not really sure what to do with him tbh. My head and heart say he's a wolf for a multitude of reasons. The way he tore into smith at eod1 once the wagons became Jaleb/Cuth/Phighter/Jan read to me on subin and continues to read to me as a wolf that was trying to power through a vote at eod. He had a really, really bad "I think jaleb is right. Spooky" post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1099)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#1097)
    Here's a perfect town circle. This is 100% correct and should never be questioned.
    Ampharos
    Apoc
    baudib1
    bopolis
    Boquise
    Frog
    IAmRobik
    Jaleb
    mhsmith0
    Phighter
    SwedishSkumbag
    Thingyman
    Visorslash
    yogsloth

    Would do a sort by post count, but doesn't feel as useful in a limited post count/5 day long day phase game.
    ... minus like, Frog, I think jaleb’s right

    Kinda spooky here tbh
    Which is just an obviously ridiculous post by Jaleb and more ridiculous agreement (especially given jaleb is in 5/4/4 wagons with me/jaleb/phi).

    I'm also rolling my eyes at Phighters response to Visor here and it reads w/w

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#885)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#863)
    the bit re: championing wiggles (i was wrong but other people shouldnt be trusted even though they were right)

    and then pushing for apoc/manasi wagons which seem to me like cop out pushes in the sense that they are not obviously bad and are 'easy targets'

    kinda like a saving face push if you get my drift. tunnel villager, they die, find villagers with inarguable reasons to push on kinda thing

    (assuming he is hitting manasi/apoc for not being super contributory, etc)
    @Visorslash

    Not totally wrong here with this push

    But I basically am taking a more backseat route after going screaming pushing and hitting a villager; I don’t think I should be in charge of the lynch (obvs) and like that was just bad.

    Humble pie tastes of blueberry tbh

    —-

    The one good thing coming out of is I should be able to get everyone who v/ved us at one point.

    Would not be shocked if a wolf is in that list as TMI.

    I’ll do that later
    Like, "oh yeah not totally wrong" really? Just seems like a couple bros playing catch.


    Anyways, you've also got the entire claim situation which I don't think is villagery at all despite others telling me they think it is. I think I know what phighter is capable of as a wolf and thats certainly in there. Then you have the "i cant be a wolf because i cant be a wolf with sr" defense he threw at me all day 3 which got me to back off a bit when SR flipped villa but now I don't like again because it's a defense on something entirely other than things he's said/done and more based on someone else.


    So I've had him as a wolf all day today and even suggested vigging him (side note: n1 vig should have shot him because he's vanillager at worst, a villager was voted out, he was the counter wagon, and he had a ton of information around him).

    But I've also recognized that a lot of people that are good at the game feel strongly that he's a villager. I also recognize that I've got a lot of wolves and they can't all be right, so maybe the ones I should back off on are the ones others feel good about being villa.

    Like, im sure dvc is annoyed at me for giving him more rope after writing an entire post about "hey heres all these reasons why he's probably a wolf but tom really thinks hes villa so im back burnering it" but I feel good that visor/thingy/jan/boq/frog has a large % of wolves so it feels ok to backburner it? idk.





    Regarding smith, he's peeked by robik and im going to just roll with that until proven otherwise


    But then he comes into today and shows more fight and heart to move the lynch off of visor because he "wants to let the wolves sort out the claim" than he has about anything in like 7 real life days. There's nothing to sort out. Theres a hard claimed red peek on visor, theres not villagery posting by visor, and there's "im totally mechanically clear for obvious reasons but im not telling" going on. They just decided to try and powerwolf their way through this.

    Dudes just woofin shad




    last post for a while, got 4 left
    I fully expect when he returns that he makes some form of argument that “It would be crazy to go through the effort to save Visor if I were a wolf!” and I'm going to preemptively remind people that he started defending Visor harder when the thread began to soften it's stance on Visor once he showed up. It was a good job of reading the room imo, but still from a wolf.




    Thingy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#3643)
    I think Thingy's posts have been busy work and I think the way he is interacting with me falls in line with him being a wolf more than a villager.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#3975)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#928)
    Manasi

    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#129)
    Phighter has awful reasons for most of his reads. Can’t tell if just villager anymore. I’m not sure why he thinks Yog complaining about the post restriction is scummy. Both of you post like 5x this restriction in almost every game you’ve played. Of course it’ll feel stressful to ration posts out across the week and make sure you’re getting everything out.

    I think that Owner is probably my strongest villager, her reads seem to be pretty substantial if they’re like.. real and not made up alphabet soup. I have to read more into them to find some stuff I specifically like but I think the way she’s looking at the game is villagery.

    I want to have a read on the baudib v Jan thing here but baudib is being baudib and Jan is being Jan. Baudib bby your jokes would go over way better if this was pog but maybe the playerlist overlaps just enough for it to be ok.

    Tbf I agree that if bop is a villager it’s an ez village win. Gl bopolis.

    Robik already cares more than any forum game I’ve seen which is unnerving but I might have to metadive on him sometime this week to see if that’s more typical as of recently.

    Other stuff... dya’s reaction to billy NAI, billy making that post about RoD’ing with Phighter was scummy, Chris and I are probably going to fight sometime this game, Amy light v just from gamblers fallacy stuff xDDDD

    Probably won’t post much during work itself but I’ll try to keep reading and catching up throughout the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#715)
    wrote some notes while catching up - was going to make them nice and pretty and decided against it.

    here ya go.

    4maskwolf probably scum... yog's callout post for lack of a better term seemed good. no content in almost a full gameday.

    i like billy's reads

    amy townreading yogsloth is pretty questionable to me.. seems like she's level 1 thinking it. could easily just be wrong but not really considering it??

    baudib soOOOO town

    wiggles entrance already towny too WEW LAD

    ok i take back what i said about yog. think his posting around p#270 really improved

    i'm not sure what i said about jan earlier. i think it was something about not being able to commit to something but at this point i do think he's been quite towny, mostly from how he's reacting to a lot of people's posts (esp apoc's lolol)

    boq's entrance/posts on page 5 are good enough to not want to kill D1

    billy is so $#@!ing TOWNY what the $#@! lmao i'm spamming so i don't unvote lolol

    viggo leaning v. i've only skimmed his posts tho. kinda a made up read that i want to believe.

    hey people talked about me! oh... people are scumreading me. okay.

    ugh tom is trending up a little i feel like i have too many town reads SEND HELP

    kinda like mr. radishes. can't explain why either. good tone and seems confident on his read of weatherguy... he's also just generally pleasant. i'm easy to sway.

    lissa popping is nice. lissa having a TR on ss is really weird to me lol


    Overall meh on Manasi. I find the content in her reads kind of villagery (like the billy read, for example), but the overall playstyle doesn't seem like what I recall it being in previous games. Specifically, I'd expect her to be way more active and out there than she is, and I also have sort of a recollection of her trying to buddy up to people that she likes.

    MR > Manasi/Jaleb > Phighter
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#1197)
    ok, great, so MR is losing momentum and I don't have time for this

    jesus

    ##Vote Manasi I guess

    she wasn't villagery from what I saw, and she's someone I perceive as having an obvious villa game

    That vote count posted above was for thingys second post where manasi and jaleb were top wagons

    thingy is also a wolf and I dont think I need to write a novel on that one
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4027)
    Shad,

    I didn't think I needed to explain further why someone saying "I find her content/reads kind of villagery, but meta wise doesn't remind me of what I'm used to from villager manasi" and then turning around a few hours later when the choices to vote are her and wolf jaleb and saying "she wasn't villagery from what I saw" so that he can vote her over wolf Jaleb is just obviously a wolf voting to keep wolf jaleb alive.

    There is a big difference between "well what they are saying is villagery but they aren't acting like I remember them acting as a villager" and "they aren't villagery" when it comes to crunch time. Also, villager Thingy would, you know, recognize that someone can't post the way he's used to when they can only post 50 times over five days instead of 150 in one and would focus more on the content being villagery instead of a meta thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4031)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#160)

    SUP CHRIS!

    I'm very excited to play with you. Hope you're town - you're looking good so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#891)
    I'm not up to date at all, but as of #150 my reads are

    Wouldn't want to lynch from what I've read so far, but except for Owner I also wouldn't call these solid villa reads yet
    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    yogsloth
    mhsmith0
    Chris
    Phighter

    And my new best guess at a wolf is ##Vote IAmRobik

    Going out to grab some lunch and then I'll be back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#944)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#932)
    Leaning town on Thingy from this page. I like some of the points me made IRT Cuth/Tom/me (ironically), and I feel LimitedTime!Thingy focusing on people that are actually at risk right now is > rand town.

    @Thingyman you can add me back to the do not lynch list now. I'm way more out of my scum range than I was 2 pages in when you first liked me

    huehuehuehue
    I can at the very least say that I'm not voting you today :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#1308)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#1300)
    Poll: People who DON'T want to lynch Thingy

    Is it because

    -You think he's been townie
    -You just aren't super convinced he's mafia

    ?
    ##Vote Chris

    Chris called me a villager earlier, I'm pretty sure, and I've just now seen two posts from him shading me when there is suddenly traction on me

    And Chris is a good player. He's a very good player. He is not reading my posts right now and legitimately finding them scummy. I don't buy it for one second.

    I wonder what could have happened between the posts of thingy saying chris looks good, that he's not voting him d1, reiterating that he's not voting chris d1, then voting chris d1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1306)
    Old Cat Mafia Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    6 Jaleb Roman (16), wiggles1993 (59), jumpluff (39), Fable (21), Apoc (44), Lissa (20)
    4 Jan baudib1 (50), Chris (58), yogsloth (43), Master Radishes (13)
    4 Chris Jaleb (20), t om (50), 4maskwolf (20), billymills (79)
    3 Manasi SwedishSkumbag (36), Phighter (50), Thingyman (52)
    2 Phighter Owner Of A Lonely Heart (23), Visorslash (15)
    2 Master Radishes Frog (41), Weatherguy (33)
    2 Thingyman IAmRobik (45), Secondhand Revenant (52)
    1 4maskwolf Cuthalion (23)
    1 t om dyachei (24)
    1 Lissa bopolis (24)
    1 Boquise Ampharos (64)
    8 Not voting Soulmaster (1), Emberguard (1), Panther (9), Manasi (22), MarkoRaj (1), mhsmith0 (52), Boquise (50), Jan (58)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, September 1st, 2019. There are 1567382460000 remaining.

    Requested by Secondhand Revenant at 0 days, 1 hours, 28 minutes, 29 seconds remaining.





    I fully expect Thingy to continue upon his return uses arguments involving stuff other than my posts in this game re: me. Things like “He's normally really nice and this game he's not”, “He's normally talkative to me and this game he hasn't been*”, and things of that nature. I would like you all to please remember that my reasons for finding him to be a wolf exclusively involve his posting in this game while his reasons for finding my wolfy are that I didn't talk to him the right way. I'd also like to remind people that I have done extensive work forming a worldview on the game and have not lingered on him at all. I only mention this because he has made it clear he's going to come at me the same way Visor is (although I do enjoy being called a wolf by visor because im super duper good as a wolf and being called a wolf by thingy because im a super duper bad one and they are disappointed in me).




    Jan:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#3972)
    After reading Billys retraction and realizing we didn't have a slam dunk vote, I decided to take the time to write up a case on my best wolf read in hopes that people can read it and give me their thoughts on it.

    My case for Jan being a wolf


    Point 1

    tl;dr: Jan has a small push on Jaleb early for reasons that don't line up with how he was talking to other people about the game set up, comments about how he likes to wolf by pushing teammates some so that when one flips W the other will be cleared, jumps through multiple hoops to find reasons to defend Jaleb despite acknowledging Jalebs claim is bad towards end of day, votes Cuth over Jaleb despite never mentioning Cuth prior to this, and then comes into day 2 acting as if Jaleb is an obvious wolf now for his claim.



    The way Jan treats Jaleb. It begins with a light village read here on early day one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#256)
    Jaleb iso leaves me with some townpoints for breaking rvs for a moment to make a real vote, but then going back to having fun right after.
    Not a strong read, but it makes the vote itself feel more genuine.
    and is followed a bit later by a shift to a wolf read for "disappearing" here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#513)

    ##Vote Jaleb
    Mostly for his vanishing act.
    Which is an understandable take in a vacuum but concerns me when it followed this post where Jan discusses how this game is meant to be taken slow over the course of a work week instead of pouring a bunch of posts into one of the days and not posting the rest of them:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#312)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#311)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#282)
    We have 3 days left and

    @Frog
    @SwedishSkumbag
    @Soulmaster
    @Lissa
    @Apoc
    @Fable
    @Panther
    @Master Radishes
    @Cobalt
    @Boquise
    @Cuthalion
    @Emberguard
    @MarkoRaj
    @bopolis

    have a combined 17 posts between them

    please play the game you signed up for folks
    $#@!ing. lol.


    see you in 2 and a half days bud
    Really?

    People not having the time to post a lot is fine, that is why we play a slower game.

    Not posting on purpose and just making it a 12/12 game that plays out once a week is going against the whole spirit of this thing.
    You just $#@! all the people that cannot powerplay like you in the ass.

    If you do that at least pick like 2 days a week where you try so people have a chance of reading you/and the game before you start playing at eod.

    I find those posts coming in succession to be awkward in the sense that it makes his reason for suspecting Jaleb seem to not follow his train of thought about this game. Jaleb posted early, Jan found him villagery, Jan expressed knowledge and desire that people are meant to take this game slow, and then finds Jaleb wolfy for not posting a lot in a day. He also then unvotes Jaleb in his very next post. Then he spends a post talking about how much he loves interacting with teammates as a wolf:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#593)

    You apparently know nothing about how I play as a wolf.

    I enjoy distancing with partners that I think are worth their salt hoping people will clear one if the other flips.
    The one ting I dislike is not interacting with partners. $#@!ing with spew is basically the most fun I have as scum outside of being toptown d1. (I tend to get found on later days when the poe gets smaller and making cases becomes annoying)



    Jan then starts wavering back and forth on Jaleb. First a vote for Jaleb again mentioning the disappearing and then unvoting Jaleb for "being the dayvig maybe":

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#1026)
    I mean .. why would a scumvig ever shoot a mainwagon instead of an obvious town (that might be protected in the night).

    d1 daykill is basically unprotectable.


    Jaleb talking about 6 minutes before Eod and viggo dying after made me think it might be him, but then him voting minutes after viggo was dead made me think it is never him. 8or just a hilarious cover)

    I know talking about rolereads in thread is bad, but his 6 minutes to cfd felt like an obvious soft post flip and every $#@!ing woof will think the same unless jaleb is a woof himself (in which case it does not matter).

    A part of me thinks Jaleb should die, but then again .. if he is the dayvig we should not out him.
    and if he is not the dayvig then the dayvig can still shoot him tomorrow.
    And if he is town then wolves might want to shoot him tonight anyway.

    Sorry my mind has been dangerous lately.

    ##Vote Master Radishes


    Then Jan says Jaleb/Radishes wagons are v/v, says that Jaleb is a villager because Jaleb voted for Viggo after Viggo got shot and Jaleb would have known that in wolf chat, has a couple flimsy posts back and forth with jaleb without attempting to figure out his role at all, calls jalebs claim the "worst of both worlds" because "he could have done it earlier to give town more time to react", and then votes Cuth for "science".

    The only time he mentioned Cuth in 5 days was on a list under "idk where to put them" along with other null reads.


    Finally, he comes into day 2 with the Jaleb is obviously a wolf mentality (even commenting on Robik beating him to the punch with a "Nooo ... go away!" when Robik votes Jaleb first).




    Point 2

    During end of day 1 there was a big cluster$#@! regarding how earlier Phighter had claimed the day vig shot on Viggo in a medium-subtle manner. Jump came in and counter claimed near end of day. The thread collectively loses their minds. Phighter is posting in caps, manasi is freaking out, SR goes at phi, SS is calling it a fiesta, different players are voting phighter, chris is saying they believe jump. Phighter jumps up to top wagon, then floats back right at the end and cuth gets lynched. Jan just ... doesn't respond ... to any of it. It's like it never happened. He just locks up and freezes, calls roman a villager for something unreleated, and never posts again.

    I think villager Jan comments on something, anything, at that moment. He was incredibly active for the 113 minutes before the counterclaim (he had 29 posts consistently spread out from restriction ending to counterclaim) and his only post after it was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#1590)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roman (#1575)
    I've been reading along for a while but had nothing important to add. I'm mostly okay with my vote. Gl.
    Town because I think a scum is afraid to get a cfd with a post like this.





    Conclusion: With the way Jan treats Jaleb day 1, talks about how he wolves and has it line up with what he did with Jaleb, votes Cuth despite not speaking about him previously while Jaleb is the counterwagon, and entirely ignores the jump/phi counterclaim, I think the answer is that Jan is a wolf that was trying not to bus Jaleb and was frozen/didn't know how to act to a counterclaim bombshell that late.

    Additionally, a lot of funky movement was involved near eod1 where sketchy people did sketchy things to avoid voting Jan/Jaleb.





    I think that list is 4/4. Which is, well, a bold assumption and something that can be quoted in postgame to make me feel silly if it's way off, but I'm doing my best and that's what I think. Those 4 all work well as teammates.




    I think the following list contains zero wolves:

    Weatherguy
    Yog
    Panther
    Roman
    Cron


    I know Cron was getting sideeyed by panther now, but I think the overall body of work is fine. If I am wrong about one, it's him imo, but I still feel fine after reisoing him yesterday.




    I am hoping the following list contains 1 wolf at most:
    Billymills
    Chris
    Robik
    Marko
    Smith
    Owner
    Shad
    Tom




    This list includes the claims (chris, marko, robik), and people I thiiiiiink are villagers. If Phighter is a wolf, I think Owner is lock clear for their discussions on calling Phighter SK. I think that's the biggest takeaway from that tier.




    Then you have the people I also think are wolves:

    Boq
    Frog

    And the people I think have done wolfy and villagery things that I can't quite place yet:

    Mask
    Bop
    SS







    2 posts left
  4. Day 4#4375

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Yog, The reasons you have more solid, concrete...

    Yog,

    The reasons you have more solid, concrete cases for people like Weatherguy, Jan, etc is because those are my strongest reads. With Boq, I discussed a bit about his comments on viggo seeming just blatantly untrue ("he's aggressive which is his wolf game") and his voting cuth at eod1 instead of Jan despite saying he wolf read Jan a bit earlier. I think he's a wolf. I just think other people (visor, phighter now, thingy, jan) are more likely wolves and am prioritizing them. Like that post said, it's a weird game because I want to kill like 7 people and some of them that in normal games I would have at the top of my priority list are like behind a handful of people. At this point and we get 1 kill every 7 days while wolves kill 2 a cycle and I can't really do anything about it.

    It sucks because he's probably a wolf as well but what are we going to do? Can't kill them all at the same time. I'm fairly confident the wolves could out themselves one at a time now and win the game via superior kill power. It's frustrating, it's annoying, but can't do much more than call them wolves and try to kill them.
  5. Day 4#4367

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread But then he comes into today and shows more fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#4365)
    Why is Phighter a wolf?

    Unless NL's a wolf and billymills isn't. Then something something seer hunt ngl
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4127)
    I have seen multiple people float the idea that "Phighter isn't a wolf because that claim doesn't make sense for a wolf to do because it doesn't have a high success rate" without factoring in that Phighter is a fun wolf that has no problem making plays, trying to out power roles, and has the utmost confidence in himself to be able to talk out of sticky situations. He's a pretty fun person to wolf with and village against. What I'm saying is, if you're clearing Phighter for some levely reads on how likely he is to "subtly" hint at being a power role, you probably shouldn't and instead focus on the things they have done/people they've voted/people they've defended/etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4185)
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#4178)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4171)
    @Panther, SS became a stronger wolf read of mine after this entire exchange which all happened in one sitting (so it wasn't like a lot changed between them). Let me know where you land on it all please. I am well aware that I have too many wolves at this point and would love to be able to cross one out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    This post is villagery
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3589)
    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3593)
    @SwedishSkumbag can you elaborate on your visor read?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3595)
    Putting all of manasi, jan, and secondhand revenant as wolves seems lazy.

    Have you looked at eod1, have you picked favorite wagons, or are you just going to pick all the wagons?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3597)
    That SS reads list is gross and I'm mildly concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#3617)
    CFD VISOR
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3623)
    uhhh

    ##Vote Visorslash
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3626)
    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3630)
    yea i know. so?

    it's not a post i'd clear him off of, just a villagery spark after the rest of his ISO being meh. it makes me probably not want to lynch him over some other ppl in that tier today tho
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3631)
    And what is with that hedgy post defending visor
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3633)
    ##Vote Jan

    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi



    well this is clear as a bell

    He gives a direct town-read of visor, votes for Billy no-votes Jan, then puts visor as a wolf read

    He couldn't keep his read of visor straight over a seven-minutes span and placed a throwaway vote he knows has no chance to roll

    gottem
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3644)
    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3648)
    Lol

    just threw this out there at random, did you

    Trying to smooth over the uh-oh
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3651)
    dont think he's given any read-related thoughts in his ISO that makes me think "i think this is more likely to come from a villager than a wolf". just easy stuff and easy questions.

    Think the 1 post i quoted about him saying that his strongest read is the claimed Vig and that sucking etc etc seemed genuine which makes me move him over some in my bottom tier but not enough to truly townread him
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3660)
    No way dudebro

    If Visor's a wolf the logical disconnect here is w/w for sure

    -oh snap, just got in and there's a red check on my bro
    -wait, it's a soft claim, there's still a chance
    -better give him a quick villa read
    -throw together a reads list, need to put some bros at the bottom, visor will do
    -uh oh
    -have to reconcile that disconnect, better make another confused-sounding villa read for visor post

    ...


    Don't know if Cron is FPSing

    and obviously he said "if I have one" so it's pretty soft

    some of you might have heard I have a particular way of feeling about fake red checks

    but if it ends up being legit this is a bro
    I don't fail to see your concerns. Honestly, that Visor post tugged on my strings a little too in real time, so I don't fault him for that

    And I certainly don't agree with yog's GOTCHA approach. more align with chris's general "I think that explanation is fine"
    like yog's take is he knows visor is a wolf but thought he might be able to redeem visor with a "this is villagery" response to a non-reads-related post? that's never w!SS's intent there if they are w/w, and I just don't think that's likely vs. "that post sounds villagy, but there really is no game-substance reason to think he's a villager so POE bottom tier" result

    my biggest problem is that his read list is nearly upside down from mine and I think I'm right. I don't think that makes him a wolf though and might even argue it makes him less likely to be a wolf

    Jim - your bottom 5 are in my bottom 8 (and may actually be my ordered bottom 5; left the second to last group alphabetical). can you look at my stuff and tell me about the other bottom 3 of mine (you can leave out owner) and/or who you think I might be misclearing in the top 15 there
    Re: Phighter I'm not really sure what to do with him tbh. My head and heart say he's a wolf for a multitude of reasons. The way he tore into smith at eod1 once the wagons became Jaleb/Cuth/Phighter/Jan read to me on subin and continues to read to me as a wolf that was trying to power through a vote at eod. He had a really, really bad "I think jaleb is right. Spooky" post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1099)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#1097)
    Here's a perfect town circle. This is 100% correct and should never be questioned.
    Ampharos
    Apoc
    baudib1
    bopolis
    Boquise
    Frog
    IAmRobik
    Jaleb
    mhsmith0
    Phighter
    SwedishSkumbag
    Thingyman
    Visorslash
    yogsloth

    Would do a sort by post count, but doesn't feel as useful in a limited post count/5 day long day phase game.
    ... minus like, Frog, I think jaleb’s right

    Kinda spooky here tbh
    Which is just an obviously ridiculous post by Jaleb and more ridiculous agreement (especially given jaleb is in 5/4/4 wagons with me/jaleb/phi).

    I'm also rolling my eyes at Phighters response to Visor here and it reads w/w

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#885)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#863)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#836)
    Well that's big $#@!ing news innit

    sorry @Viggorous

    my bad, I'll own that

    I don't really like how everyone was quick to like, champion Wiggles as like a new king after a villager died, especially when I can barely remember what the $#@! Wiggles had said on Viggo before the shot

    ##Vote Manasi

    I'm in Manasi/Apoc for d1

    feeling super sheepish right now tbh lmao
    the bit re: championing wiggles (i was wrong but other people shouldnt be trusted even though they were right)

    and then pushing for apoc/manasi wagons which seem to me like cop out pushes in the sense that they are not obviously bad and are 'easy targets'

    kinda like a saving face push if you get my drift. tunnel villager, they die, find villagers with inarguable reasons to push on kinda thing

    (assuming he is hitting manasi/apoc for not being super contributory, etc)
    @Visorslash

    Not totally wrong here with this push

    But I basically am taking a more backseat route after going screaming pushing and hitting a villager; I don’t think I should be in charge of the lynch (obvs) and like that was just bad.

    Humble pie tastes of blueberry tbh

    —-

    The one good thing coming out of is I should be able to get everyone who v/ved us at one point.

    Would not be shocked if a wolf is in that list as TMI.

    I’ll do that later
    Like, "oh yeah not totally wrong" really? Just seems like a couple bros playing catch.


    Anyways, you've also got the entire claim situation which I don't think is villagery at all despite others telling me they think it is. I think I know what phighter is capable of as a wolf and thats certainly in there. Then you have the "i cant be a wolf because i cant be a wolf with sr" defense he threw at me all day 3 which got me to back off a bit when SR flipped villa but now I don't like again because it's a defense on something entirely other than things he's said/done and more based on someone else.


    So I've had him as a wolf all day today and even suggested vigging him (side note: n1 vig should have shot him because he's vanillager at worst, a villager was voted out, he was the counter wagon, and he had a ton of information around him).

    But I've also recognized that a lot of people that are good at the game feel strongly that he's a villager. I also recognize that I've got a lot of wolves and they can't all be right, so maybe the ones I should back off on are the ones others feel good about being villa.

    Like, im sure dvc is annoyed at me for giving him more rope after writing an entire post about "hey heres all these reasons why he's probably a wolf but tom really thinks hes villa so im back burnering it" but I feel good that visor/thingy/jan/boq/frog has a large % of wolves so it feels ok to backburner it? idk.





    Regarding smith, he's peeked by robik and im going to just roll with that until proven otherwise


    But then he comes into today and shows more fight and heart to move the lynch off of visor because he "wants to let the wolves sort out the claim" than he has about anything in like 7 real life days. There's nothing to sort out. Theres a hard claimed red peek on visor, theres not villagery posting by visor, and there's "im totally mechanically clear for obvious reasons but im not telling" going on. They just decided to try and powerwolf their way through this.

    Dudes just woofin shad




    last post for a while, got 4 left
  6. Day 4#4363

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread But yeah: Kill visor Then kill Phighter Then...

    But yeah:

    Kill visor
    Then kill Phighter
    Then kill Thingy
    Then kill Jan


    is what we should be doing in this game.
  7. Day 4#4360

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Frog, you're like 5th on my list and we get one...

    Frog, you're like 5th on my list and we get one kill a day really
    plenty of time to change my mind just do you my friend
  8. Day 4#4356

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread with boq* not bop

    with boq* not bop
  9. Day 4#4352

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Just kill visor shoot phighter lynch thingy...

    Just kill visor
    shoot phighter
    lynch thingy tomorrow
    lynch jan after
    lynch frog

    reevaluate
  10. Day 4#4351

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread thread feels like the wolves decided last night...

    thread feels like the wolves decided last night to power their way through this

    visor is a wolf (even if you dont believe the peek, his posts since returning are not villagery)
    phighter is just a wolf and toms just wrong on him, it happens
    mask has plummeted
    frogs getting ready to claim masons with bop and i dont believe it
  11. Day 4#4190

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread You, Chris, and Marko are claims and there's no...

    You, Chris, and Marko are claims and there's no reason to put you three in a reads list just to pad it and make it look more correct.
  12. Day 4#4188

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Speaking of the "I think there's 0 wolves in this...

    Speaking of the "I think there's 0 wolves in this pile" list, right now mine is (ignoring claims and ABC order):

    Cron
    Panther
    Roman
    Weatherguy
    Yog
  13. Day 4#4187

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread As for your villas Panther the two that I'm still...

    As for your villas @Panther the two that I'm still uncertain about are mask and bop (ill ignore SS since we've discussed him already). I had a post about mask here

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4124)
    After solidifying my read on Weatherguy and Owner I decided to check up on a few other villager reads of mine to make sure I feel solid about it.

    If I'm wrong with any of them I think it's 4maskwolf.


    1.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4maskwolf (#994)
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#884)
    I'm not sure how to read 4maskwolf any more and I'm not sure how to interface with someone who only believes in talking about lock villa reads. Like as the particular person I am. @4maskwolf I think you were going to post thoughts today though? Also, in good faith, do you think people should be able to read you as villager, disregarding yogsloth?
    I am going to post thoughts today, yes. Currently reading through the ISOs of some of the top wagons to form a solid opinion on them.

    No, I don't think it's super possible to townread me atm, at least not firmly (so discounting tonereads). I don't have a huge amount of actual content to go off of, pretty much just four posts (two posts with multiple mini-ISOs, one response to baudib, and my post earlier).

    Oh, and now this one, because I have an opinion that I was going to share this morning but left off because I felt myself falling back asleep.

    I'm glad Viggorous got DK'd. Not anything specifically against Viggorous, but the Viggorous vs Phighter thunderdome was slowly sucking the rest of the thread in like a vortex and was beginning to dominate the day. Sure, there was other stuff going on throughout it, but a lot of people were getting pulled into it and pretty much everyone felt the need to have an opinion on it, be it by taking a side or explicitly declaring it v/v.

    By my understanding, the primary benefit of a thunderdome is that you can look back in hindsight and analyze everyone's reactions to it, with its primary downside being that it tends to dominate the thread and throttle other interaction. With the dayvig kill, we get the best of both worlds: we get to look back in a couple days at their little thunderdome to analyze people's reactions, and we still get to use the rest of the dayphase to find scum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#991)
    When you clearly shot Viggorous and have no WIM left + yet are still top wagon

    So... you're claiming credit for the kill, then?


    I don't really like the "I'm glad Viggo got DK'd because the Viggo/Phighter thunderdome was dominating the day" line in this post. If they were dominating the day, why have you said nothing about them yet? Secondly, if this is good because the benefit of a thunderdome is to check reactions after they die and the dayvig gets us to that point earlier, why is their next reaction NOT going to check others reactions. Instead they start checking out radishes.


    2.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4maskwolf (#1094)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#532)
    Okay, fine, 'right' now then. But only briefly.

    In my reading of the first 150ish posts (which is all I've got up to - I'm sort of hoping nothing has been claimed/said since that will invalidate all my hard work here) I felt little sirens go off when reading weatherguy's posts.

    Here's his first half dozen, with super intelligent commentary from me:


    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#57)
    First game in a year, do we still do fakepeeks around here, Manasi?
    Weak opening. This is the sort of thing a scum would enter with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#58)
    Like ampharaos post above mine a lot.

    For Smith, is there a certain point where that much effort is too over the top/not believable? Game just feels a little low stakes for that level of hype
    Throwing shade, but with that little ? to see how we feel about the idea first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#81)
    This post in a vacuum pings me. Feels too self-aware, trying to be overly agreeable.

    Nothing else I'm reading really pings me aorn and majority of everyone reads villagery. Think ring rust making me an optimist
    Seems like a cop out as he doesn't want to be too strong on his reads just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#82)
    Baudibs entrance is whatever. Seems like a lot of rehashing reads already given. Tone is fine, content is bleh
    'whatever' 'bleh' 'fine' - soft words to test the waters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#133)
    How do you feel about Baudib outside of that stuff with Jan? Initially I didn't care for him, and I don't understand his response to me, but the rest seemed good and mostly original thoughts, v lean.

    Also just want to know if you have anything about Jan that you can say that would actually help me read him. The whole "something something mystery" read doesn't help, and I don't think I can read him regardless because his German tone feels awkward always in forum.

    Rest of your reads I can't really attest to because I'm at work on mobile and don't remember particularly what the people were talking about. Quotes would help in future if you would be so kind
    Again, feeling out what others think, treading lightly, refusing to commit to own thoughts.

    Also, 'If you would be so kind' = wolfy

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#148)
    Top towns are gonna be amph, owner, yogs, robik in no particular order. The big text walls from latter three really won me over.

    Slight W to 4mask, Billy Mills, Jan (mostly due to being convinced by towny people)
    'Really won me over', really? That easily? Also, that justification for sussing Jan is poor.


    So ##Vote Weatherguy And please don't come along and tell me he's greenpeaked or something, because I hate wasting effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#533)
    One more for now:

    Early townreads of baudib and jumpluff (from those first few pages, anyway). They're both voting Jan, I see. I'll take a look at that tomorrow.



    I had more thoughts but they've escaped me.


    There are only really three things to take a look at with Master Radishes: his case on Weatherguy, his potential TMI around Weatherguy, and his townreads listed in the next post.

    Spoiler Alert: I don't think Radishes is scum at all.

    Let's take a look at his case on Weatherguy. While I disagree with it, it's internally consistent and draws from a number of posts to make his case, basically "Weatherguy is being wishy-washy and crowd pleasing". It was also placed against someone with no existing votes, and honestly the whole thing makes me feel it's a pretty pure vote against something he genuinely noticed and thought was scummy rather than a fabrication.

    Now the potential TMI. This is probably the scummiest thing he does, but even then... maybe it's just me, but it strikes me as consistent with the rest of his behavior in his other posts and NAI. While it's a pretty poor choice of words, it fits with the "beleaguered and out-of-touch-with-the-game" vibe he gave off that day, and I feel it's distinctly NAI.

    Finally, his reads. They're not great, but not bad either: they're pretty similar to the townreads a lot of other players got while reading the first few pages, so it feels pretty NAI: could be scum aping reads, could be town just reading the same was as others.

    Honestly, there's just so little content out of Radishes that I'm a little at a loss to how a wagon that size formed to begin with, the "TMI" is pretty weak grounds to stand on for a late-day lead wagon.


    This post confuses me too. Mask says Radishes case is internally consistent, likes that it's towards someone without votes, and feels pretty pure. Dismisses the TMI case against Radishes and says it's consistent with his behavior. Then says the reads aren't great but not bad and similar to others reads. That's all fine and good, except mask closes with "There's just so little content out of Radishes that I'm at a loss to how a wagon that size formed". But there was just three different sections of content that he found villagery/fine from Radishes. It started with "I don't think Radishes is scum at all". So is there enough content to discern Radishes role or isn't there?


    3. They are another one of the people that went Chris -> Cuth when wagoned next to Jaleb/Jan but never really talked about Jaleb or Jan. They just made a single post calling them LHF that did silly but understandable things.


    4. A lot of their posts are about mechanics and I know "focus on the mechanics so you can argue things you know you're correct about instead of alignments that you have make stuff up for" is a common wolf approach (It is for me!).



    Now, this is not me saying I have them as a wolf now. This is me, at 1-2am, reading through things to try and lock in my thoughts and expressing concerns I've come up with. I have exactly zero experience that I can remember with mask so I'm pretty blind on this one. I'm hoping to open a discussion with others that do have experience with mask so that I can comfortably lock in that villa read if it's right or abandon it if not. I'm hoping it's still fine, cause I have a lot of wolf reads already and I need more villagers not the other way around.


    I saw his reply and it seems fine. It's certainly not like I have mask as a tier 1 wolf or anything. It's more just that I read a post by him upon subbing in, thought it was uber villagery, put him in the villa pile, and moved on before reading things in full and isoing more people and finding concerns. I feel like they are being rather careful about what they choose to talk about, but I understand their reply to me about it.


    - - - - - - - - - -

    Regarding Bop, it's more of a "I've thought the points have been good when I read them but I'm concerned about the lack of any bite from them" thing. Again, don't have them anywhere near the vote list yet but I'm not entirely comfortable putting them in the "I think there's 0 wolves here" pile. Hopefully some more flips can shine some light on things when I reread them with better context.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Weatherguy,

    thanks for the vote of confidence! gonna keep thinking it through. I haven't gotten the chance to iso your more recent posts. Can you tell me your thoughts on tom? I isod him and think he's a likely villager but I'd be curious to know your thoughts given he's pretty high on phighter being villa.
  14. Day 4#4185

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Re: Phighter I'm not really sure what to do with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#4178)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4171)
    @Panther, SS became a stronger wolf read of mine after this entire exchange which all happened in one sitting (so it wasn't like a lot changed between them). Let me know where you land on it all please. I am well aware that I have too many wolves at this point and would love to be able to cross one out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#2836)
    i expected to care more myself tbh

    i just dont give a $#@! about a long phase wall posting game and i'm not sure i can bring myself to give more of a $#@! beyond my requisite attempts at keeping up with the game because i feel a compulsion to attempt to care

    and you're right, i don't really have a solid read on anyone

    i think chris is probably the most solid read i have and that is a guy who claimed a role on d1

    and that is stupid and i know it. i'm not dumb, i know that i should be at the very least doing more if not caring more but i just dont want to play this kind of ww game

    if you think it makes me a wolf, you go right on ahead, i'm not going to argue against the fact i don't care

    i don't think it makes me a wolf personally (either meta or in this game but ymmv)

    what do you think of my posts independent of that, then?
    This post is villagery
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3589)
    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3593)
    @SwedishSkumbag can you elaborate on your visor read?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3595)
    Putting all of manasi, jan, and secondhand revenant as wolves seems lazy.

    Have you looked at eod1, have you picked favorite wagons, or are you just going to pick all the wagons?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3597)
    That SS reads list is gross and I'm mildly concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#3617)
    CFD VISOR
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3623)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3618)
    last thing I want is to cause another CFD and save another wolf.

    Visor can die tomorrow.
    uhhh

    ##Vote Visorslash
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3626)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3630)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3626)
    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.
    yea i know. so?

    it's not a post i'd clear him off of, just a villagery spark after the rest of his ISO being meh. it makes me probably not want to lynch him over some other ppl in that tier today tho
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3631)
    And what is with that hedgy post defending visor
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3633)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    This post is villagery
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3588)
    ##Vote Jan
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3589)
    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi


    well this is clear as a bell

    He gives a direct town-read of visor, votes for Billy no-votes Jan, then puts visor as a wolf read

    He couldn't keep his read of visor straight over a seven-minutes span and placed a throwaway vote he knows has no chance to roll

    gottem
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3644)
    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3648)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    Lol

    just threw this out there at random, did you

    Trying to smooth over the uh-oh
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3651)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3644)
    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?
    dont think he's given any read-related thoughts in his ISO that makes me think "i think this is more likely to come from a villager than a wolf". just easy stuff and easy questions.

    Think the 1 post i quoted about him saying that his strongest read is the claimed Vig and that sucking etc etc seemed genuine which makes me move him over some in my bottom tier but not enough to truly townread him
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3660)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3657)

    I'm fine with this explanation.

    lolme if I'm wrong but Yog/Billy, I think that was just him explaining things.
    No way dudebro

    If Visor's a wolf the logical disconnect here is w/w for sure

    -oh snap, just got in and there's a red check on my bro
    -wait, it's a soft claim, there's still a chance
    -better give him a quick villa read
    -throw together a reads list, need to put some bros at the bottom, visor will do
    -uh oh
    -have to reconcile that disconnect, better make another confused-sounding villa read for visor post

    ...


    Don't know if Cron is FPSing

    and obviously he said "if I have one" so it's pretty soft

    some of you might have heard I have a particular way of feeling about fake red checks

    but if it ends up being legit this is a bro
    I don't fail to see your concerns. Honestly, that Visor post tugged on my strings a little too in real time, so I don't fault him for that

    And I certainly don't agree with yog's GOTCHA approach. more align with chris's general "I think that explanation is fine"
    like yog's take is he knows visor is a wolf but thought he might be able to redeem visor with a "this is villagery" response to a non-reads-related post? that's never w!SS's intent there if they are w/w, and I just don't think that's likely vs. "that post sounds villagy, but there really is no game-substance reason to think he's a villager so POE bottom tier" result

    my biggest problem is that his read list is nearly upside down from mine and I think I'm right. I don't think that makes him a wolf though and might even argue it makes him less likely to be a wolf

    Jim - your bottom 5 are in my bottom 8 (and may actually be my ordered bottom 5; left the second to last group alphabetical). can you look at my stuff and tell me about the other bottom 3 of mine (you can leave out owner) and/or who you think I might be misclearing in the top 15 there
    Re: Phighter I'm not really sure what to do with him tbh. My head and heart say he's a wolf for a multitude of reasons. The way he tore into smith at eod1 once the wagons became Jaleb/Cuth/Phighter/Jan read to me on subin and continues to read to me as a wolf that was trying to power through a vote at eod. He had a really, really bad "I think jaleb is right. Spooky" post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1099)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#1097)
    Here's a perfect town circle. This is 100% correct and should never be questioned.
    Ampharos
    Apoc
    baudib1
    bopolis
    Boquise
    Frog
    IAmRobik
    Jaleb
    mhsmith0
    Phighter
    SwedishSkumbag
    Thingyman
    Visorslash
    yogsloth

    Would do a sort by post count, but doesn't feel as useful in a limited post count/5 day long day phase game.
    ... minus like, Frog, I think jaleb’s right

    Kinda spooky here tbh
    Which is just an obviously ridiculous post by Jaleb and more ridiculous agreement (especially given jaleb is in 5/4/4 wagons with me/jaleb/phi).

    I'm also rolling my eyes at Phighters response to Visor here and it reads w/w

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#885)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#863)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#836)
    Well that's big $#@!ing news innit

    sorry @Viggorous

    my bad, I'll own that

    I don't really like how everyone was quick to like, champion Wiggles as like a new king after a villager died, especially when I can barely remember what the $#@! Wiggles had said on Viggo before the shot

    ##Vote Manasi

    I'm in Manasi/Apoc for d1

    feeling super sheepish right now tbh lmao
    the bit re: championing wiggles (i was wrong but other people shouldnt be trusted even though they were right)

    and then pushing for apoc/manasi wagons which seem to me like cop out pushes in the sense that they are not obviously bad and are 'easy targets'

    kinda like a saving face push if you get my drift. tunnel villager, they die, find villagers with inarguable reasons to push on kinda thing

    (assuming he is hitting manasi/apoc for not being super contributory, etc)
    @Visorslash

    Not totally wrong here with this push

    But I basically am taking a more backseat route after going screaming pushing and hitting a villager; I don’t think I should be in charge of the lynch (obvs) and like that was just bad.

    Humble pie tastes of blueberry tbh

    —-

    The one good thing coming out of is I should be able to get everyone who v/ved us at one point.

    Would not be shocked if a wolf is in that list as TMI.

    I’ll do that later
    Like, "oh yeah not totally wrong" really? Just seems like a couple bros playing catch.


    Anyways, you've also got the entire claim situation which I don't think is villagery at all despite others telling me they think it is. I think I know what phighter is capable of as a wolf and thats certainly in there. Then you have the "i cant be a wolf because i cant be a wolf with sr" defense he threw at me all day 3 which got me to back off a bit when SR flipped villa but now I don't like again because it's a defense on something entirely other than things he's said/done and more based on someone else.


    So I've had him as a wolf all day today and even suggested vigging him (side note: n1 vig should have shot him because he's vanillager at worst, a villager was voted out, he was the counter wagon, and he had a ton of information around him).

    But I've also recognized that a lot of people that are good at the game feel strongly that he's a villager. I also recognize that I've got a lot of wolves and they can't all be right, so maybe the ones I should back off on are the ones others feel good about being villa.

    Like, im sure dvc is annoyed at me for giving him more rope after writing an entire post about "hey heres all these reasons why he's probably a wolf but tom really thinks hes villa so im back burnering it" but I feel good that visor/thingy/jan/boq/frog has a large % of wolves so it feels ok to backburner it? idk.





    Regarding smith, he's peeked by robik and im going to just roll with that until proven otherwise
  15. Day 4#4176

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Regarding Phighter, I don't think Tom/Phighter is...

    Regarding Phighter, I don't think Tom/Phighter is a reasonable wolf pairing either given Tom's reaction at eod1 was to vote phighter and then unvote instead of voting the counterwagon Cuth. With that said, I feel similar to this thing as I do for Cron/Panther where I think Tom feels strongly that Phighter is a villager and either I should trust villa tom's read a bit or listen to wolf tom wanting to be right about Phighter and just move it to the back burner. The panther/cron one is much stronger due to rereading cron in iso and liking a lot more than I thought I would, but it's the same concept.
  16. Day 4#4174

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Rereading through SS to find those quotes for...

    Rereading through SS to find those quotes for Panther made me realize that I don't think SS/Jan is a reasonable wolf pairing.
  17. Day 4#4173

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I think I want to rework my priority wolf list to...

    I think I want to rework my priority wolf list to like:

    Visor
    Thingy
    Jan
    Boq
    Frog
  18. Day 4#4172

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I ISO'd tom and he seems fine? A handful of posts...

    I ISO'd tom and he seems fine? A handful of posts I nodded at especially with hindsight. Nothing that really alarmed me. Seemed to have a genuine reaction at eod1. One specific thing I like is that the reads tom has are pretty unique instead of spongy/working with the consensus poe. He has smith as a wolf pretty hard while most are either ok with smith on his own or just rolling with robik, has a villa read most of the game on ss, etc. Just kinda reads as a dude solving the game?
  19. Day 4#4171

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Panther, SS became a stronger wolf read of mine...

    @Panther, SS became a stronger wolf read of mine after this entire exchange which all happened in one sitting (so it wasn't like a lot changed between them). Let me know where you land on it all please. I am well aware that I have too many wolves at this point and would love to be able to cross one out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#2836)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#2834)
    I just kinda expect more.

    I just expect you to care more in some sense. I'd expect to see you shot early for having too many solid reads on people. But I'm not even sure you have a solid read here.

    Feels like you randed the wrong team or something.
    i expected to care more myself tbh

    i just dont give a $#@! about a long phase wall posting game and i'm not sure i can bring myself to give more of a $#@! beyond my requisite attempts at keeping up with the game because i feel a compulsion to attempt to care

    and you're right, i don't really have a solid read on anyone

    i think chris is probably the most solid read i have and that is a guy who claimed a role on d1

    and that is stupid and i know it. i'm not dumb, i know that i should be at the very least doing more if not caring more but i just dont want to play this kind of ww game

    if you think it makes me a wolf, you go right on ahead, i'm not going to argue against the fact i don't care

    i don't think it makes me a wolf personally (either meta or in this game but ymmv)

    what do you think of my posts independent of that, then?
    This post is villagery
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3589)
    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3593)
    @SwedishSkumbag can you elaborate on your visor read?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3595)
    Putting all of manasi, jan, and secondhand revenant as wolves seems lazy.

    Have you looked at eod1, have you picked favorite wagons, or are you just going to pick all the wagons?
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3597)
    That SS reads list is gross and I'm mildly concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#3617)
    CFD VISOR
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3623)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3618)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cron (#3617)
    CFD VISOR
    last thing I want is to cause another CFD and save another wolf.

    Visor can die tomorrow.
    uhhh

    ##Vote Visorslash
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3626)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3630)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3626)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    you put visor in your list of wolves after you said he had a villagery post.
    yea i know. so?

    it's not a post i'd clear him off of, just a villagery spark after the rest of his ISO being meh. it makes me probably not want to lynch him over some other ppl in that tier today tho
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#3631)
    And what is with that hedgy post defending visor
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3633)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3586)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#2836)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#2834)
    I just kinda expect more.

    I just expect you to care more in some sense. I'd expect to see you shot early for having too many solid reads on people. But I'm not even sure you have a solid read here.

    Feels like you randed the wrong team or something.
    i expected to care more myself tbh

    i just dont give a $#@! about a long phase wall posting game and i'm not sure i can bring myself to give more of a $#@! beyond my requisite attempts at keeping up with the game because i feel a compulsion to attempt to care

    and you're right, i don't really have a solid read on anyone

    i think chris is probably the most solid read i have and that is a guy who claimed a role on d1

    and that is stupid and i know it. i'm not dumb, i know that i should be at the very least doing more if not caring more but i just dont want to play this kind of ww game

    if you think it makes me a wolf, you go right on ahead, i'm not going to argue against the fact i don't care

    i don't think it makes me a wolf personally (either meta or in this game but ymmv)

    what do you think of my posts independent of that, then?
    This post is villagery
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3588)
    ##Vote Jan
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3589)
    Here's kinda where i'm at without having caught up some of d2 and most of d3.


    Weatherguy
    Chris (claim)
    Owner
    Robik
    mhsmith0

    4Mask
    MarkoRaj (claim)

    Billy
    Yog
    Baudib
    tom

    Boq (Wiggles sheep)
    dyachei (Fable sheep (or spew if he's w) )
    Thingy
    Master Radishes/Sunbae
    Roman
    bopolis

    Frog

    a few wolves below hopefully:

    (
    I need to actually read some of their posts:
    Cron
    Panther
    )

    Visor
    Lissa
    Fable
    Secondhand Revenant
    Phighter
    Jan
    Manasi


    well this is clear as a bell

    He gives a direct town-read of visor, votes for Billy no-votes Jan, then puts visor as a wolf read

    He couldn't keep his read of visor straight over a seven-minutes span and placed a throwaway vote he knows has no chance to roll

    gottem
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3644)
    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3648)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3625)
    Visor had a villagery post tho

    still don't hate it
    Lol

    just threw this out there at random, did you

    Trying to smooth over the uh-oh
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#3651)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3644)
    SS - why do you think Visor might be mafia?
    dont think he's given any read-related thoughts in his ISO that makes me think "i think this is more likely to come from a villager than a wolf". just easy stuff and easy questions.

    Think the 1 post i quoted about him saying that his strongest read is the claimed Vig and that sucking etc etc seemed genuine which makes me move him over some in my bottom tier but not enough to truly townread him
    Quote Originally Posted by yogsloth (#3660)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#3657)

    I'm fine with this explanation.

    lolme if I'm wrong but Yog/Billy, I think that was just him explaining things.
    No way dudebro

    If Visor's a wolf the logical disconnect here is w/w for sure

    -oh snap, just got in and there's a red check on my bro
    -wait, it's a soft claim, there's still a chance
    -better give him a quick villa read
    -throw together a reads list, need to put some bros at the bottom, visor will do
    -uh oh
    -have to reconcile that disconnect, better make another confused-sounding villa read for visor post

    ...


    Don't know if Cron is FPSing

    and obviously he said "if I have one" so it's pretty soft

    some of you might have heard I have a particular way of feeling about fake red checks

    but if it ends up being legit this is a bro
  20. Day 4#4146

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I wish I was just being deliberately obtuse...

    I wish I was just being deliberately obtuse because it would feel better than being dumb
  21. Day 4#4144

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Ohhhhh I got you It's about submitting the...

    Ohhhhh I got you

    It's about submitting the day vig that happens on odd days during even nights via modbot

    thats not at all what I was thinking when I read it with all the different points between those two lines. hmm. I'm gonna ponder that role some more then.

    Thats, as they say, my bad
  22. Day 4#4142

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread As for the "impossible thought for a villager" I...

    As for the "impossible thought for a villager" I don't think you're wrong that it's a weird thought but I'm not really sure it's a wolfy weird?

    I will say, another post that has mild concern for me is the one where they break down the kills as wolf/villa/sk from n1. I don't really understand what part of the wiggles/ampharos kills seems SKish and it could be the continuation of my concern about her talking about phighter being SK (basically knowing that the wolf team didn't make that kill so it must be sk). However, she also says that on her home forum sk is used a lot so I don't haaaate it as much.

    But overall, I think their approach is villagery and the way they are thinking about the game is villagery even if I don't agree with it.
  23. Day 4#4139

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Panther, she says it in red in her post: Mafia...

    Panther, she says it in red in her post:

    Mafia Day Vigilance
    slash
    Even Night


    Also, sorry for not tagging you directly on the second thing. I didn't want to tag you for two posts in a row and figured you'd see it since it was right after the first one. But you're right that it's kinda rude to say "id like him to do" instead of just saying "hey panther, can you do a iso on SS and let me know what you think" instead.
  24. Day 4#4133

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread If Robik strongly hinted that they had mechanical...

    Quote Originally Posted by t om (#4131)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#4129)
    I have no idea what to make of tom having smith in his wolf list of 4 when robik has claimed smith is a villa peek. Like, even if you don't believe robik we're obviously not going to be killing smith today in case robik is telling the truth. Seems like a weird focus but I can't tell if it's a wolfy weird or villagery one.

    I think I've been playing the game too much tonight. Having nobody to talk to in real time makes it difficult to like, work things out as well. Starting to go in circles in my head and think I need to stop for the night so I'm out.

    Hope to wake up to a lot of mentions directed towards me because I think I've put a lot of stuff into the thread tonight.
    I see youve never played with robik.
    If Robik strongly hinted that they had mechanical info that SR was a wolf, then turns around and does it again, I don't care how villagery they are otherwise they need to be voted out.
  25. Day 4#4132

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Tom, could you do me a favor and devote a post to...

    Tom, could you do me a favor and devote a post to showing me what you mean? I didn't really see anything that made me think he was out of his wolf range during that exchange but it's possible I was also just trying to take in so many different things (it was a hectic time!) that having it spelled out for me would help. I certainly would prefer to be on the same team as Phighter but I'm not seeing it myself yet.

    I promise to iso you tomorrow. I probably should have spent time on that tonight instead of weatherguy/owner but they had come up so I wanted to be sure. I'm just too out of it now. It's like I read the words on the screen and realize I retained nothing and start over, then repeat it 2-3 more times before it finally clicks.
  26. Day 4#4129

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I have no idea what to make of tom having smith...

    I have no idea what to make of tom having smith in his wolf list of 4 when robik has claimed smith is a villa peek. Like, even if you don't believe robik we're obviously not going to be killing smith today in case robik is telling the truth. Seems like a weird focus but I can't tell if it's a wolfy weird or villagery one.

    I think I've been playing the game too much tonight. Having nobody to talk to in real time makes it difficult to like, work things out as well. Starting to go in circles in my head and think I need to stop for the night so I'm out.

    Hope to wake up to a lot of mentions directed towards me because I think I've put a lot of stuff into the thread tonight.
  27. Day 4#4128

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread This is a weird game because I feel solid about...

    This is a weird game because I feel solid about Boq being a wolf but I just keep finding people I feel better about being a wolf. I can't think of the last game that I felt so good about so many wolf reads. Which means I'm unsure if my villager ancestors are smiling down upon me from Valhalla or if they are shaking their heads in disgust.
  28. Day 4#4127

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I have seen multiple people float the idea that...

    I have seen multiple people float the idea that "Phighter isn't a wolf because that claim doesn't make sense for a wolf to do because it doesn't have a high success rate" without factoring in that Phighter is a fun wolf that has no problem making plays, trying to out power roles, and has the utmost confidence in himself to be able to talk out of sticky situations. He's a pretty fun person to wolf with and village against. What I'm saying is, if you're clearing Phighter for some levely reads on how likely he is to "subtly" hint at being a power role, you probably shouldn't and instead focus on the things they have done/people they've voted/people they've defended/etc.
  29. Day 4#4126

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
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    33,216

    Game Thread I feel pretty good about Shad's entrance as well....

    I feel pretty good about Shad's entrance as well. Gonna bump them up a bit.
  30. Day 4#4125

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
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    33,216

    Game Thread I'm also going to move Cron up to the villager...

    I'm also going to move Cron up to the villager list. Whether that is just a mistake from wanting to have another villager or correct I'm unsure. But I don't think Panther's read and the way he delivered it to me is very likely to be w/w. I think either panther is a villager and strongly believes Cron is a villager - in which case I respect his strong reads enough to listen - or Panther is a wolf and is thinking that's one of the easy ones to be right about since I think I'm the only one who voiced concerns.

    Also, after isoing him again here he seems like, super villagery? I think I got paranoid with the over the top Visor stuff when it seemed like there was no chance any late wagon movement was going to happen. Seemed like he over the top theater on someone to be right on (or thinking visor was already peeked or something). However, rereading it now I think his posting today was really villagery and his posting regarding Jaleb was as well.
  31. Day 4#4124

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread After solidifying my read on Weatherguy and Owner...

    After solidifying my read on Weatherguy and Owner I decided to check up on a few other villager reads of mine to make sure I feel solid about it.

    If I'm wrong with any of them I think it's 4maskwolf.


    1.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4maskwolf (#994)
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#884)
    I'm not sure how to read 4maskwolf any more and I'm not sure how to interface with someone who only believes in talking about lock villa reads. Like as the particular person I am. @4maskwolf I think you were going to post thoughts today though? Also, in good faith, do you think people should be able to read you as villager, disregarding yogsloth?
    I am going to post thoughts today, yes. Currently reading through the ISOs of some of the top wagons to form a solid opinion on them.

    No, I don't think it's super possible to townread me atm, at least not firmly (so discounting tonereads). I don't have a huge amount of actual content to go off of, pretty much just four posts (two posts with multiple mini-ISOs, one response to baudib, and my post earlier).

    Oh, and now this one, because I have an opinion that I was going to share this morning but left off because I felt myself falling back asleep.

    I'm glad Viggorous got DK'd. Not anything specifically against Viggorous, but the Viggorous vs Phighter thunderdome was slowly sucking the rest of the thread in like a vortex and was beginning to dominate the day. Sure, there was other stuff going on throughout it, but a lot of people were getting pulled into it and pretty much everyone felt the need to have an opinion on it, be it by taking a side or explicitly declaring it v/v.

    By my understanding, the primary benefit of a thunderdome is that you can look back in hindsight and analyze everyone's reactions to it, with its primary downside being that it tends to dominate the thread and throttle other interaction. With the dayvig kill, we get the best of both worlds: we get to look back in a couple days at their little thunderdome to analyze people's reactions, and we still get to use the rest of the dayphase to find scum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#991)
    When you clearly shot Viggorous and have no WIM left + yet are still top wagon

    So... you're claiming credit for the kill, then?


    I don't really like the "I'm glad Viggo got DK'd because the Viggo/Phighter thunderdome was dominating the day" line in this post. If they were dominating the day, why have you said nothing about them yet? Secondly, if this is good because the benefit of a thunderdome is to check reactions after they die and the dayvig gets us to that point earlier, why is their next reaction NOT going to check others reactions. Instead they start checking out radishes.


    2.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4maskwolf (#1094)
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#532)
    Okay, fine, 'right' now then. But only briefly.

    In my reading of the first 150ish posts (which is all I've got up to - I'm sort of hoping nothing has been claimed/said since that will invalidate all my hard work here) I felt little sirens go off when reading weatherguy's posts.

    Here's his first half dozen, with super intelligent commentary from me:


    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#57)
    First game in a year, do we still do fakepeeks around here, Manasi?
    Weak opening. This is the sort of thing a scum would enter with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#58)
    Like ampharaos post above mine a lot.

    For Smith, is there a certain point where that much effort is too over the top/not believable? Game just feels a little low stakes for that level of hype
    Throwing shade, but with that little ? to see how we feel about the idea first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#78)
    I always seem to read dya wolf. It's a real read, but it's something I'd end up on maybe 70% of the time anyway. I felt her opening was poor.

    Concern was well-intentioned, cause I can be a pain to play with when I'm in a tunnel.
    This post in a vacuum pings me. Feels too self-aware, trying to be overly agreeable.

    Nothing else I'm reading really pings me aorn and majority of everyone reads villagery. Think ring rust making me an optimist
    Seems like a cop out as he doesn't want to be too strong on his reads just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#82)
    Baudibs entrance is whatever. Seems like a lot of rehashing reads already given. Tone is fine, content is bleh
    'whatever' 'bleh' 'fine' - soft words to test the waters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#133)
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmRobik (#131)
    Post #4

    I don't think I've focused on yog as much as people are saying I have, but I guess 2/3 posts is a lot even though most of my content hasn't been yog related.

    The read on Jan is a dossier read. It might as well be a red check. Jan can't help himself as mafia from doing [something] related to me. I don't want to dive into it too much as I want to keep using it in the future or force him to try to read all of his interactions with me from all the games we're w/v to try to figure out what it is.

    viggo's list in #128 is legit WTF and I don't like that as we've been able to find each other the past 2 games based off of having similar reads. I also think he finds me as town fairly quickly when we're v/v, so him ignoring me is NAGL.

    Phighter's #127 is a bad post. Way too strongly sold on yog being a wolf and pre-flip association with Owner. It's a shame his playstyle makes it difficult to discern his alignment (his reads when he's mafia are bad on purpose...his reads when he's town and bad on accident?? range merge? who knows)

    Thingy's #126 was uninspiring for a first post. It's not jokey enough, nor is it solvey enough. Presence to show presence is wolfy. Also Thingy is a bazillion poster so his "my speed" remark seems insincere to me

    SOmething's rubbing me the wrong way about the Jan/Baudib stuff. My initial reaction is that it's w/v but I feel like there could be w/w. It reads a bit like how Jan/Banks interacted in the ITA or Anni game when discussing me. Maybe something to look at later.

    Oh right, don't like dya for the "no we can't just lock in jump" comment. Doesn't give any reason to scumread jump (in fact calls their posts townie), so that part of the post is just poopoo cause it smells. dya
    How do you feel about Baudib outside of that stuff with Jan? Initially I didn't care for him, and I don't understand his response to me, but the rest seemed good and mostly original thoughts, v lean.

    Also just want to know if you have anything about Jan that you can say that would actually help me read him. The whole "something something mystery" read doesn't help, and I don't think I can read him regardless because his German tone feels awkward always in forum.

    Rest of your reads I can't really attest to because I'm at work on mobile and don't remember particularly what the people were talking about. Quotes would help in future if you would be so kind
    Again, feeling out what others think, treading lightly, refusing to commit to own thoughts.

    Also, 'If you would be so kind' = wolfy

    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#148)
    Top towns are gonna be amph, owner, yogs, robik in no particular order. The big text walls from latter three really won me over.

    Slight W to 4mask, Billy Mills, Jan (mostly due to being convinced by towny people)
    'Really won me over', really? That easily? Also, that justification for sussing Jan is poor.


    So ##Vote Weatherguy And please don't come along and tell me he's greenpeaked or something, because I hate wasting effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Radishes (#533)
    One more for now:

    Early townreads of baudib and jumpluff (from those first few pages, anyway). They're both voting Jan, I see. I'll take a look at that tomorrow.



    I had more thoughts but they've escaped me.


    There are only really three things to take a look at with Master Radishes: his case on Weatherguy, his potential TMI around Weatherguy, and his townreads listed in the next post.

    Spoiler Alert: I don't think Radishes is scum at all.

    Let's take a look at his case on Weatherguy. While I disagree with it, it's internally consistent and draws from a number of posts to make his case, basically "Weatherguy is being wishy-washy and crowd pleasing". It was also placed against someone with no existing votes, and honestly the whole thing makes me feel it's a pretty pure vote against something he genuinely noticed and thought was scummy rather than a fabrication.

    Now the potential TMI. This is probably the scummiest thing he does, but even then... maybe it's just me, but it strikes me as consistent with the rest of his behavior in his other posts and NAI. While it's a pretty poor choice of words, it fits with the "beleaguered and out-of-touch-with-the-game" vibe he gave off that day, and I feel it's distinctly NAI.

    Finally, his reads. They're not great, but not bad either: they're pretty similar to the townreads a lot of other players got while reading the first few pages, so it feels pretty NAI: could be scum aping reads, could be town just reading the same was as others.

    Honestly, there's just so little content out of Radishes that I'm a little at a loss to how a wagon that size formed to begin with, the "TMI" is pretty weak grounds to stand on for a late-day lead wagon.


    This post confuses me too. Mask says Radishes case is internally consistent, likes that it's towards someone without votes, and feels pretty pure. Dismisses the TMI case against Radishes and says it's consistent with his behavior. Then says the reads aren't great but not bad and similar to others reads. That's all fine and good, except mask closes with "There's just so little content out of Radishes that I'm at a loss to how a wagon that size formed". But there was just three different sections of content that he found villagery/fine from Radishes. It started with "I don't think Radishes is scum at all". So is there enough content to discern Radishes role or isn't there?


    3. They are another one of the people that went Chris -> Cuth when wagoned next to Jaleb/Jan but never really talked about Jaleb or Jan. They just made a single post calling them LHF that did silly but understandable things.


    4. A lot of their posts are about mechanics and I know "focus on the mechanics so you can argue things you know you're correct about instead of alignments that you have make stuff up for" is a common wolf approach (It is for me!).



    Now, this is not me saying I have them as a wolf now. This is me, at 1-2am, reading through things to try and lock in my thoughts and expressing concerns I've come up with. I have exactly zero experience that I can remember with mask so I'm pretty blind on this one. I'm hoping to open a discussion with others that do have experience with mask so that I can comfortably lock in that villa read if it's right or abandon it if not. I'm hoping it's still fine, cause I have a lot of wolf reads already and I need more villagers not the other way around.
  32. Day 4#4123

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
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    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Regarding Owner, I feel like they've just kept...

    Regarding Owner, I feel like they've just kept barreling through the game making their observations and asking their questions.

    There's one post in particular that I really liked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner Of A Lonely Heart (#1917)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#1361)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#196)
    I'm going to lie down. Might actually put in effort tomorrow, but i dunno... unpacking sucks

    Either way, i'm appreciating everybody not spamming like crazy. Nice change of pace. Very active games make baby black jesus cry.
    Unpopular opinion is it wrong me suspect Chris taking the shot on jump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1648)
    Old Cat Mafia Invitational Day 2 Event

    jumpluff was killed. They were: Town Day Vigilante | Odd Night.
    Role PM for Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    You are Town Day Vigilante | Odd Night. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

    Town Day Vigilante

    As Town Day Vigilante, you have access to the Shoot Day Action. Players targeted with this action will die within one minute after submission unless protected. Only one shot can be fired per player per Day. Submit your action during the Day using the form below the game thread.

    If you do not submit an action, you will forego your action on that day.

    Odd Night

    The Odd Night modifier limits you to only submit Night actions on Odd numbered Nights.

    Day 2 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, September 8th, 2019. There are 1567987260000 remaining.

    Posted at 4 days, 23 hours, 58 minutes, 58 seconds remaining.
    I didn’t know odd night could be applied to day roles, but it makes sense~kind of not sure how that’s automated.

    Things that bother me:
    1. why didn’t Chris die yet?
    - It wasn’t an even night so it wasn’t top priority.
    - Do vigs get a pass(on dying in the night)here as they are equally able to mess up than find the right target?
    2. I’m still not all that thrilled with his posts.
    - I feel like he’s letting the claim carry him. But we also just lost a bunch of our town kp. I feel he should be actively figuring out who he’s gonna kill next. Yeah, I know..*owner slow down it is still early in the day*
    3. I just don’t think I can town read him; in my mind, he hasn’t done enough to be called town.
    4. Going through his ISO: he read Cuth wolfy for suspecting that he was covering for a partner thingy. He also scum read Vigg. He also something about that the vigg shot was a town shot. The problem is I don’t think the claims happened yet. He sounded pretty confident that it was a town shot. I can see how someone could assume it being a town shot. But the way, you have that kind of confidence in my mind is that maybe he’s just a Mafia Day Vigilante | Even Night. In mind and sort of design, that can make some sense.

    Or I’m just way way wrong; that’s possible too.
    I like that they are thinking weird, outside the box things. The idea of "the claimed even night vig is really a half day vig/half night vig and chris is claiming it to blend in" is just not something I ever, ever expect a wolf to come up with (unless of course it's true lol).


    The only post I scrunched my face up at in their iso was this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner Of A Lonely Heart (#1713)
    Random thought, Phighter is my pick for SK. Bunch of people are town reading him, while there's also a good split of us scum reading him.

    He could just be a bad villager. But why do you decide to fake claim day 1? Especially a high end town role, like to me it screams all kinds of trouble.

    The post to say that he was covering for jump was fair I guess. But Phighter, I really feel like you screwed us.
    Because I find a lot of wolves have this tendency to want to be solving the game even though they are a wolf, and "this person being wolf read is playing weird and getting wolf read, they aren't on my team, so they must be SK" is something that's come up fairly often.


    However, since it lines up with their outside the box thinking shown elsewhere, I'm more inclined to just believe its not a concern.

    I'd take it a step further and say that if Chris is a villager then Owner is also a villager for the shade of half day/half night vig.
  33. Day 4#4122

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
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    33,216

    Game Thread Speaking of Panther, I find his posts totally...

    Speaking of Panther, I find his posts totally fine but I have this nagging feeling that he's been trying to widen the POE the last couple of days with his roman case and now coming at WG and Owner. I feel there are a lot of wolfier people in the game and he's not focusing on them as much. I'd really like him to give a nice deep dive on SS.

    Just something to keep an eye on and could totally just be paranoia on my end.
  34. Day 4#4121

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Some questions about Weatherguy popped up so I...

    Some questions about Weatherguy popped up so I want to put my stance out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1127)
    Old Cat Mafia Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 Master Radishes Ampharos (50), Frog (41), Thingyman (38), Jan (50), Weatherguy (31)
    5 Jan baudib1 (50), IAmRobik (34), Chris (47), yogsloth (41), Master Radishes (10)
    5 Jaleb Roman (16), wiggles1993 (50), jumpluff (39), Fable (21), Apoc (40)
    2 Manasi SwedishSkumbag (20), Phighter (47)
    2 Phighter Owner Of A Lonely Heart (23), Visorslash (15)
    2 Chris Jaleb (20), t om (46)
    1 4maskwolf Cuthalion (23)
    1 yogsloth 4maskwolf (16)
    1 t om dyachei (24)
    1 Lissa bopolis (24)
    10 Not voting Soulmaster (1), Lissa (14), Emberguard (1), Secondhand Revenant (27), Panther (9), Manasi (22), MarkoRaj (1), billymills (50), mhsmith0 (46), Boquise (50)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, September 1st, 2019. There are 1567382460000 remaining.

    Requested by Apoc at 0 days, 2 hours, 42 minutes, 11 seconds remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#1139)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishSkumbag (#1134)
    if 3 people that's not voting Jan/Jaleb/Radishes could vote manasi with me and make it 5-5-5-5 i'd be a happy man
    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Like her tone but people have a point about lack of interaction stuff (and specifically with who and all). Idk, guess I can see it

    ##Vote Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by t om (#1142)
    ##Vote Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1143)
    Old Cat Mafia Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 Master Radishes Ampharos (50), Frog (41), Thingyman (38), Jan (50), Weatherguy (31)
    5 Jan baudib1 (50), IAmRobik (36), Chris (47), yogsloth (41), Master Radishes (13)
    5 Jaleb Roman (16), wiggles1993 (50), jumpluff (39), Fable (21), Apoc (41)
    4 Manasi SwedishSkumbag (25), Phighter (47), Secondhand Revenant (29), t om (48)
    2 Phighter Owner Of A Lonely Heart (23), Visorslash (15)
    1 Chris Jaleb (20)
    1 4maskwolf Cuthalion (23)
    1 yogsloth 4maskwolf (16)
    1 t om dyachei (24)
    1 Lissa bopolis (24)
    9 Not voting Emberguard (1), Lissa (14), Panther (9), Soulmaster (1), Manasi (22), MarkoRaj (1), billymills (50), mhsmith0 (46), Boquise (50)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, September 1st, 2019. There are 1567382460000 remaining.

    Requested by SwedishSkumbag at 0 days, 2 hours, 23 minutes, 20 seconds remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherguy (#1152)
    Prefer no Manasi wagon.

    I've honestly kind of liked radishes responses in the past hour. The only thing that gives me pause is his unwillingness to swap to Jaleb. Might be a W/W thing.


    This sequence from eod1 seems good to me. You have a confirmed wolf tied for lead wagon. A villager starts gaining traction. Weatherguy immediately tries to shut it down. Then also called another villager (radishes) tied with Jaleb villagery and said he liked their posts. I think shaving off options of villager wagons here when ran up next to at least one wolf (Jaleb) and potentially another (Jan) is as good of a look as you can have on that eod.

    I also had weatherguy as a villager for their incessant harping on Phighter for giving a read for something that never happened. I liked the way they got paranoid about their seer cover and dropped it and started talking about how they thought they left good cover but maybe not, and then tried to look at frog who he thought knew he softed. It was the right kind of villagery paranoia to me. His frustration with Robik/Baudib also came of natural to me. Weatherguy also isn't getting stuck on one or two people even if he finds them very wolfy. He's giving a wide variety of reads on people as things come up.

    Basically, he feels like a villager in his posting to me and he has actual pro-village content near eod1. I have him as a strong villager read. @Panther please check this out and let me know your thoughts.
  35. Day 4#4061

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Let's make this concise: Villagers Chris...

    Let's make this concise:

    Villagers
    Chris
    Marko
    Robik

    Fable SHC:
    Roman

    Likely villagers:
    Yog
    Smith
    Weatherguy
    Mask
    Billy
    Owner

    Lean villager:
    Bop
    Cron
    Shad
    Panther


    Lean wolf via no villager read:
    Frog
    Tom

    Larger lean wolf:
    Boq

    Wolf Reads
    Visor
    Jan
    Thingy
    Phighter
    SS
  36. Day 4#4060

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I can get on board with that logic smith. After...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable (#478)
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei (#476)
    Quote Originally Posted by mhsmith0 (#462)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#424)
    Very wolfy post, waow. Fable actually trying, writing many words, using hyperbole, showing doubt - and all of this in the same post, even his first content post? Time to boom him.
    @dyachei, thoughts?
    It's a good start but he can do it as a wolf. Need to see more from him before I call him anything

    Also phighter don't make posts like that with a million colors. I can't read half of it and it's just annoying
    Just treat dya as an IC this game thx.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fable (#1698)
    baudib can be IC wit dya

    more in a bit

    is it weird I miss 7z7 even though I only played with him once and he wasn't even that active?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fable (#2729)
    Roman can be third IC btw plz treat him as such.


    I can get on board with that logic smith. After thinking Robik wasn't seer because he made it seem like SRw was a peek, killing Fable and Dya does point to that being a possibility.

    Would make Roman SHC.
  37. Day 4#4053

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Thingy is attempting to shift the goalposts of my...

    Thingy is attempting to shift the goalposts of my comments from "Thingy, on two separate occasions day 1, explained that a person was either posting villagery content or that he wouldn't vote them only to turn around and vote them when they were wagoned against Jaleb near end of day" to "Just because I was wrong on SR doesn't mean anything. Lots of people were yesterday".

    This will, I assume, not be a successful deflection attempt.

    I also roll my eyes at the idea that I'm being rude to him by pointing out his voting history, his key eod1 votes, his comments about said votes, and the vote counts that existed at the time of those votes. I understood it when Yog got flustered at me but this one isn't believable. I also know that thingy knows I don't do the whole "talk about peoples read of me" thing and just do my own thing, so him acting as if this is somehow a negative isn't believable to me.


    - - - - - - - - -

    On a separate matter, assuming Visor flips wolf I think there's a good argument to be made to vig Phighter (personally, I think vigging the counterwagon n1 to a villager being voted out should have already happened but whatever).

    - - - - - - - - -

    At this point I believe the wolf team consists of Jaleb, Visor, Thingy, Jan, Phighter, and SS. I don't think that's the entire team, but I think that's the core of it. I think that list has 5-6 wolves.


    - - - - - - - - -

    I've reread Bop and I want to bop him down just a smidge from "I'm pretty confident he's a villager" to "My late game 'we've killed all the likely wolves and it isn't over so who can it be'" list.


    - - - - - - - - -

    I am fairly confident that the following people are villagers:

    Claims
    Chris
    Robik
    Marko

    Yog
    Smith
    Weatherguy
    Mask
    Billy
    Owner


    assuming the claims are legit, I think that list should have 0-1 wolves in it (heavy lean towards 0).



    - - - - - - - - - -

    I need to find the villagers out of this group. If my understanding of the game state is accurate, the majority of these should be villagers anyways:

    Bop
    Boq
    Cron
    Frog
    Panther
    Roman
    Shad
    Tom


    Of those, I've got various reasons to like things that Bop, Shad, and Panther have posted. Panther feels confident about Cron and that doesn't read like a w/w pairing from what I've seen so I'll just roll with it.


    What thoughts do we have on these people:

    Boq
    Frog
    Roman
    Tom
  38. Day 4#4035

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Oh, also for those that would like more stuff: ...

    Oh, also for those that would like more stuff:

    Thingy hasn't voted a wolf this entire game:

    jumpluff
    robik
    me
    manasi
    chris
    me
    sr
    me


    He's voting villagers, defending wolves, and doing it in a pretty unapologetic way where it's contradicting the things he's saying. I think he's incredibly likely to flip wolf.
  39. Day 4#4033

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Baudib feels strongly that Robik is a villager...

    Baudib feels strongly that Robik is a villager who was saved. Robik has been posting villagery imo since I've been in the game. I see no reason why we shouldn't believe Robik after a hard claim.

    So today we kill Visor.
    Tomorrow though should be Jan and Thingy wagons.


    Out for a while, perhaps even until tomorrow.

    ##Vote Visorslash
  40. Day 4#4031

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I wonder what could have happened between the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#160)

    SUP CHRIS!

    I'm very excited to play with you. Hope you're town - you're looking good so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#891)
    I'm not up to date at all, but as of #150 my reads are

    Wouldn't want to lynch from what I've read so far, but except for Owner I also wouldn't call these solid villa reads yet
    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    yogsloth
    mhsmith0
    Chris
    Phighter

    And my new best guess at a wolf is ##Vote IAmRobik

    Going out to grab some lunch and then I'll be back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#944)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#932)
    Leaning town on Thingy from this page. I like some of the points me made IRT Cuth/Tom/me (ironically), and I feel LimitedTime!Thingy focusing on people that are actually at risk right now is > rand town.

    @Thingyman you can add me back to the do not lynch list now. I'm way more out of my scum range than I was 2 pages in when you first liked me

    huehuehuehue
    I can at the very least say that I'm not voting you today :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#1308)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris (#1300)
    Poll: People who DON'T want to lynch Thingy

    Is it because

    -You think he's been townie
    -You just aren't super convinced he's mafia

    ?
    ##Vote Chris

    Chris called me a villager earlier, I'm pretty sure, and I've just now seen two posts from him shading me when there is suddenly traction on me

    And Chris is a good player. He's a very good player. He is not reading my posts right now and legitimately finding them scummy. I don't buy it for one second.

    I wonder what could have happened between the posts of thingy saying chris looks good, that he's not voting him d1, reiterating that he's not voting chris d1, then voting chris d1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1306)
    Old Cat Mafia Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    6 Jaleb Roman (16), wiggles1993 (59), jumpluff (39), Fable (21), Apoc (44), Lissa (20)
    4 Jan baudib1 (50), Chris (58), yogsloth (43), Master Radishes (13)
    4 Chris Jaleb (20), t om (50), 4maskwolf (20), billymills (79)
    3 Manasi SwedishSkumbag (36), Phighter (50), Thingyman (52)
    2 Phighter Owner Of A Lonely Heart (23), Visorslash (15)
    2 Master Radishes Frog (41), Weatherguy (33)
    2 Thingyman IAmRobik (45), Secondhand Revenant (52)
    1 4maskwolf Cuthalion (23)
    1 t om dyachei (24)
    1 Lissa bopolis (24)
    1 Boquise Ampharos (64)
    8 Not voting Soulmaster (1), Emberguard (1), Panther (9), Manasi (22), MarkoRaj (1), mhsmith0 (52), Boquise (50), Jan (58)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Sunday, September 1st, 2019. There are 1567382460000 remaining.

    Requested by Secondhand Revenant at 0 days, 1 hours, 28 minutes, 29 seconds remaining.




  41. Day 4#4027

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Shad, I didn't think I needed to explain...

    Shad,

    I didn't think I needed to explain further why someone saying "I find her content/reads kind of villagery, but meta wise doesn't remind me of what I'm used to from villager manasi" and then turning around a few hours later when the choices to vote are her and wolf jaleb and saying "she wasn't villagery from what I saw" so that he can vote her over wolf Jaleb is just obviously a wolf voting to keep wolf jaleb alive.

    There is a big difference between "well what they are saying is villagery but they aren't acting like I remember them acting as a villager" and "they aren't villagery" when it comes to crunch time. Also, villager Thingy would, you know, recognize that someone can't post the way he's used to when they can only post 50 times over five days instead of 150 in one and would focus more on the content being villagery instead of a meta thing.
  42. Day 4#3978

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Oh, one final thing before I go to sleep. My...

    Oh, one final thing before I go to sleep. My removal of Phighter was due to the peeks. He's currently in the tier 2 wolf reads of mine (tier 1 being Jan/Thingy, tier 2 being SS/Boq/Visor/Phi)
  43. Day 4#3976

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Panther I am taking your Cron read into heavy...

    @Panther

    I am taking your Cron read into heavy account and backing off of it. Though if you could ease my mind on it (and help ease my mind on you in the process) and take the time to make a post at some point during this game day walking me through why I'd love that.
  44. Day 4#3975

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread That vote count posted above was for thingys...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#928)
    Manasi

    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#129)
    Phighter has awful reasons for most of his reads. Can’t tell if just villager anymore. I’m not sure why he thinks Yog complaining about the post restriction is scummy. Both of you post like 5x this restriction in almost every game you’ve played. Of course it’ll feel stressful to ration posts out across the week and make sure you’re getting everything out.

    I think that Owner is probably my strongest villager, her reads seem to be pretty substantial if they’re like.. real and not made up alphabet soup. I have to read more into them to find some stuff I specifically like but I think the way she’s looking at the game is villagery.

    I want to have a read on the baudib v Jan thing here but baudib is being baudib and Jan is being Jan. Baudib bby your jokes would go over way better if this was pog but maybe the playerlist overlaps just enough for it to be ok.

    Tbf I agree that if bop is a villager it’s an ez village win. Gl bopolis.

    Robik already cares more than any forum game I’ve seen which is unnerving but I might have to metadive on him sometime this week to see if that’s more typical as of recently.

    Other stuff... dya’s reaction to billy NAI, billy making that post about RoD’ing with Phighter was scummy, Chris and I are probably going to fight sometime this game, Amy light v just from gamblers fallacy stuff xDDDD

    Probably won’t post much during work itself but I’ll try to keep reading and catching up throughout the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#715)
    wrote some notes while catching up - was going to make them nice and pretty and decided against it.

    here ya go.

    4maskwolf probably scum... yog's callout post for lack of a better term seemed good. no content in almost a full gameday.

    i like billy's reads

    amy townreading yogsloth is pretty questionable to me.. seems like she's level 1 thinking it. could easily just be wrong but not really considering it??

    baudib soOOOO town

    wiggles entrance already towny too WEW LAD

    ok i take back what i said about yog. think his posting around p#270 really improved

    i'm not sure what i said about jan earlier. i think it was something about not being able to commit to something but at this point i do think he's been quite towny, mostly from how he's reacting to a lot of people's posts (esp apoc's lolol)

    boq's entrance/posts on page 5 are good enough to not want to kill D1

    billy is so $#@!ing TOWNY what the $#@! lmao i'm spamming so i don't unvote lolol

    viggo leaning v. i've only skimmed his posts tho. kinda a made up read that i want to believe.

    hey people talked about me! oh... people are scumreading me. okay.

    ugh tom is trending up a little i feel like i have too many town reads SEND HELP

    kinda like mr. radishes. can't explain why either. good tone and seems confident on his read of weatherguy... he's also just generally pleasant. i'm easy to sway.

    lissa popping is nice. lissa having a TR on ss is really weird to me lol


    Overall meh on Manasi. I find the content in her reads kind of villagery (like the billy read, for example), but the overall playstyle doesn't seem like what I recall it being in previous games. Specifically, I'd expect her to be way more active and out there than she is, and I also have sort of a recollection of her trying to buddy up to people that she likes.

    MR > Manasi/Jaleb > Phighter
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#1197)
    ok, great, so MR is losing momentum and I don't have time for this

    jesus

    ##Vote Manasi I guess

    she wasn't villagery from what I saw, and she's someone I perceive as having an obvious villa game

    That vote count posted above was for thingys second post where manasi and jaleb were top wagons

    thingy is also a wolf and I dont think I need to write a novel on that one
  45. Day 4#3972

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread After reading Billys retraction and realizing we...

    After reading Billys retraction and realizing we didn't have a slam dunk vote, I decided to take the time to write up a case on my best wolf read in hopes that people can read it and give me their thoughts on it.

    My case for Jan being a wolf


    Point 1

    tl;dr: Jan has a small push on Jaleb early for reasons that don't line up with how he was talking to other people about the game set up, comments about how he likes to wolf by pushing teammates some so that when one flips W the other will be cleared, jumps through multiple hoops to find reasons to defend Jaleb despite acknowledging Jalebs claim is bad towards end of day, votes Cuth over Jaleb despite never mentioning Cuth prior to this, and then comes into day 2 acting as if Jaleb is an obvious wolf now for his claim.



    The way Jan treats Jaleb. It begins with a light village read here on early day one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#256)
    Jaleb iso leaves me with some townpoints for breaking rvs for a moment to make a real vote, but then going back to having fun right after.
    Not a strong read, but it makes the vote itself feel more genuine.
    and is followed a bit later by a shift to a wolf read for "disappearing" here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#513)

    ##Vote Jaleb
    Mostly for his vanishing act.
    Which is an understandable take in a vacuum but concerns me when it followed this post where Jan discusses how this game is meant to be taken slow over the course of a work week instead of pouring a bunch of posts into one of the days and not posting the rest of them:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#312)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#311)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#282)
    We have 3 days left and

    @Frog
    @SwedishSkumbag
    @Soulmaster
    @Lissa
    @Apoc
    @Fable
    @Panther
    @Master Radishes
    @Cobalt
    @Boquise
    @Cuthalion
    @Emberguard
    @MarkoRaj
    @bopolis

    have a combined 17 posts between them

    please play the game you signed up for folks
    $#@!ing. lol.


    see you in 2 and a half days bud
    Really?

    People not having the time to post a lot is fine, that is why we play a slower game.

    Not posting on purpose and just making it a 12/12 game that plays out once a week is going against the whole spirit of this thing.
    You just $#@! all the people that cannot powerplay like you in the ass.

    If you do that at least pick like 2 days a week where you try so people have a chance of reading you/and the game before you start playing at eod.

    I find those posts coming in succession to be awkward in the sense that it makes his reason for suspecting Jaleb seem to not follow his train of thought about this game. Jaleb posted early, Jan found him villagery, Jan expressed knowledge and desire that people are meant to take this game slow, and then finds Jaleb wolfy for not posting a lot in a day. He also then unvotes Jaleb in his very next post. Then he spends a post talking about how much he loves interacting with teammates as a wolf:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#593)

    You apparently know nothing about how I play as a wolf.

    I enjoy distancing with partners that I think are worth their salt hoping people will clear one if the other flips.
    The one ting I dislike is not interacting with partners. $#@!ing with spew is basically the most fun I have as scum outside of being toptown d1. (I tend to get found on later days when the poe gets smaller and making cases becomes annoying)



    Jan then starts wavering back and forth on Jaleb. First a vote for Jaleb again mentioning the disappearing and then unvoting Jaleb for "being the dayvig maybe":

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#1026)
    I mean .. why would a scumvig ever shoot a mainwagon instead of an obvious town (that might be protected in the night).

    d1 daykill is basically unprotectable.


    Jaleb talking about 6 minutes before Eod and viggo dying after made me think it might be him, but then him voting minutes after viggo was dead made me think it is never him. 8or just a hilarious cover)

    I know talking about rolereads in thread is bad, but his 6 minutes to cfd felt like an obvious soft post flip and every $#@!ing woof will think the same unless jaleb is a woof himself (in which case it does not matter).

    A part of me thinks Jaleb should die, but then again .. if he is the dayvig we should not out him.
    and if he is not the dayvig then the dayvig can still shoot him tomorrow.
    And if he is town then wolves might want to shoot him tonight anyway.

    Sorry my mind has been dangerous lately.

    ##Vote Master Radishes


    Then Jan says Jaleb/Radishes wagons are v/v, says that Jaleb is a villager because Jaleb voted for Viggo after Viggo got shot and Jaleb would have known that in wolf chat, has a couple flimsy posts back and forth with jaleb without attempting to figure out his role at all, calls jalebs claim the "worst of both worlds" because "he could have done it earlier to give town more time to react", and then votes Cuth for "science".

    The only time he mentioned Cuth in 5 days was on a list under "idk where to put them" along with other null reads.


    Finally, he comes into day 2 with the Jaleb is obviously a wolf mentality (even commenting on Robik beating him to the punch with a "Nooo ... go away!" when Robik votes Jaleb first).




    Point 2

    During end of day 1 there was a big cluster$#@! regarding how earlier Phighter had claimed the day vig shot on Viggo in a medium-subtle manner. Jump came in and counter claimed near end of day. The thread collectively loses their minds. Phighter is posting in caps, manasi is freaking out, SR goes at phi, SS is calling it a fiesta, different players are voting phighter, chris is saying they believe jump. Phighter jumps up to top wagon, then floats back right at the end and cuth gets lynched. Jan just ... doesn't respond ... to any of it. It's like it never happened. He just locks up and freezes, calls roman a villager for something unreleated, and never posts again.

    I think villager Jan comments on something, anything, at that moment. He was incredibly active for the 113 minutes before the counterclaim (he had 29 posts consistently spread out from restriction ending to counterclaim) and his only post after it was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan (#1590)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roman (#1575)
    I've been reading along for a while but had nothing important to add. I'm mostly okay with my vote. Gl.
    Town because I think a scum is afraid to get a cfd with a post like this.





    Conclusion: With the way Jan treats Jaleb day 1, talks about how he wolves and has it line up with what he did with Jaleb, votes Cuth despite not speaking about him previously while Jaleb is the counterwagon, and entirely ignores the jump/phi counterclaim, I think the answer is that Jan is a wolf that was trying not to bus Jaleb and was frozen/didn't know how to act to a counterclaim bombshell that late.
  46. Day 4#3839

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread Heading out for the night. 1. If anyone has a...

    Heading out for the night.

    1. If anyone has a villager read on any of these people, could you please elaborate on it and why along with how confident you are in the read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#3827)
    I think the important thing for everyone to do today is sort through the following list and come up with strong reads:

    Jan
    SS
    Boq
    Thingy
    Cron

    They're not all wolves, but this list should contain 2-3? We have 5 days so let's take the time to do it. It's not a lot of posts overall.

    2. If anyone feels like any of these people have solid wolf equity still, can you please elaborate on why?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#3819)
    I'm fairly good on Chris, Bop, Mask, Billy, Robik, Marko, Smith, Owner, Weatherguy, and Yog being villagers

    with billys stuff on shad and phi and baudibs claim here i think we're in a pretty good spot and are just feeling the frustration of the long phases


    I'd like to form a pretty strong consensus on villagers and lynch pool today.


    later friends
  47. Day 4#3831

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I'm not concerned about Baudibs claim and if it's...

    I'm not concerned about Baudibs claim and if it's real or not. This game is going to have a few more game days and he'll resolve himself by them. There's plenty of other people to fret about. If he's a wolf he's a dead man walking and if he's a villager he'll die tonight.
  48. Day 4#3827

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I think the important thing for everyone to do...

    I think the important thing for everyone to do today is sort through the following list and come up with strong reads:

    Jan
    SS
    Boq
    Thingy
    Cron

    They're not all wolves, but this list should contain 2-3? We have 5 days so let's take the time to do it. It's not a lot of posts overall.
  49. Day 4#3819

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread I'm fairly good on Chris, Bop, Mask, Billy,...

    I'm fairly good on Chris, Bop, Mask, Billy, Robik, Marko, Smith, Owner, Weatherguy, and Yog being villagers

    with billys stuff on shad and phi and baudibs claim here i think we're in a pretty good spot and are just feeling the frustration of the long phases
  50. Day 4#3816

    Thread: Old Cat Mafia Invitational

    by Sunbae
    Replies
    4,670
    Views
    33,216

    Game Thread phi v, shad v, visor w is pretty damn good I...

    phi v, shad v, visor w is pretty damn good

    I read the thread overnight. I wanna to kill the following people after visor:

    Jan
    SS
    Boq
    Thingy
    Cron
    Baudib
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The Vanilla Mafia is a standard mafia-aligned player with no additional abilities other than those shared by the mafia faction (private communication capabilities and a factional kill).