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  1. Postgame#4186

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    Completed Annoying to the point of being a protown mechanic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Creature (#4181)
    Lack of daychat was pretty annoying actually.
    Annoying to the point of being a protown mechanic balancewise? If yes, what alternative do folks suggest as a way for mafia to buy daychat?

    Maybe Rand 2 vests among town, but take them away if mafia chooses night only chat?
  2. Postgame#4185

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    Completed Yes with drawings lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Gnome (#4180)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#4176)
    I kinda wanna run this again very soon...
    Could I write flavor? It could be a story, even without flips.
    Yes with drawings lol
  3. Postgame#4184

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    Completed Yeah, not sure how to get around that potential...

    Quote Originally Posted by Creature (#4178)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#4123)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4116)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4110)
    GG sorry if I was a jerk Michelle but you really got on my nerves.
    Not that that's an excuse but I hope you can forgive me for adapting a somewhat nasty tooth and claw strategy today.



    Ty Zork for hosting, was a weird but interesting setup. I think maybe it was a bit villa sided if not for the missed pills, which also made the game very random nevausee it can either kill clears or strong prs or help with the poe
    You're welcome.

    Pills will be modified so non-submitters are given their own zero pills...submitters would still be randed.

    Hard disagree on villa sided. You do realize Town had to lynch correctly today, d5, AND d6 to win?

    Cops needed to play ABC and Powerchooser needed to stay vanilla and PRs needed not to claim so anticlaim wouldnt make wolves peek green. Only 2 of those 3 needs were met, so here we are, with a mafia victory.
    It's not that villa sided but it's pretty easy for wolves to get horrendously $#@!ed through a single wolf lynch D1.
    Yeah, not sure how to get around that potential variance...
  4. Postgame#4179

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Legit sad no stump action...

    Legit sad no stump action...
  5. Postgame#4177

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Was lack of daychat so handicapping that it's...

    Was lack of daychat so handicapping that it's worth holstering a poison to get it?
  6. Postgame#4176

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed I kinda wanna run this again very soon...

    I kinda wanna run this again very soon...
  7. Postgame#4175

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed So bad it was genius

    Quote Originally Posted by baudib1 (#4169)
    The Marl/me wagons are absurd. Such a bad spot to bus.
    So bad it was genius
  8. Postgame#4168

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    Completed To his credit, Abraxas was pretty obvious about...

    To his credit, Abraxas was pretty obvious about not hardclaiming baudib w, which is why viggo got a lot more traction d4 than wolves thought he would when they discussed things n3.
  9. Postgame#4166

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed The cops were neutered early in addition to FPS...

    Quote Originally Posted by YOLOSWAG (#4164)
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib1 (#4162)
    I think the setup is too reliant on the seers and that creates a lot of variance. The wolf team has so much KP, we don't have a healer or town KP so no real comeback mechanism.
    totally agreed. village depending on the bp vests being given out isnt enough; there should b something concrete. otherwise were literally just sitting there waiting to get slaughtered every night
    The cops were neutered early in addition to FPS by both, one of which worked better than the other, to put it mildly. Town didn't submit one single list with all four on it, which to me seems below average at the very least. I don't get your comment about sitting waiting to get slaughtered, that seems to me a melodramatic summary not based in the reality of the powerful tools as town's disposal. Don't forget, all you had to do was bink the poisoner and wolf KP is down to one the rest of the game. You can't really count the suicide bomb. It has its niche, such as the purpose it would surely have served the last minute of d5 had you lynched viggo d4. But that's about it.
  10. Postgame#4165

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed I think your comment is a good counterpoint to...

    Quote Originally Posted by baudib1 (#4162)
    I think the setup is too reliant on the seers and that creates a lot of variance. The wolf team has so much KP, we don't have a healer or town KP so no real comeback mechanism. We're just basically drawing dead after the Abraxas lynch.
    I think your comment is a good counterpoint to viggo's argument that town has too much seer and other PR power. I really put in some solid multi-faceted mitigation of seer power in that claiming or power-choosing or both would wreak havoc on the reliability of the peeks, turning the game not just into a mountainous, but into a sinister ugly bastard godfathered millerfest. So I'm glad that worked out ok lol.
  11. Postgame#4163

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Abraxas was odd cop with a n0 peek of insomnia...

    Abraxas was odd cop with a n0 peek of insomnia and an n1 peek of BATMAN. BATMAN was cycle cop with an n1 peek of LordQuas.
  12. Postgame#4161

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Every host should feel lucky to have you in his...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Gnome (#4152)
    Thank you, @Zork, for the game. It was a creative set up.
    I am sorry that I voted you, @baudib1.
    Congratulations to the mafia team. You earned your victory.
    Every host should feel lucky to have you in his or her game.
  13. Postgame#4159

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed I'm liking the feedback, especially since I have...

    Quote Originally Posted by YOLOSWAG (#4149)
    good collective effort by the village at the end there especially michelle. phighters steadfastness on vigg was nice as well

    baudi, was lots of fun villaging together. sorry you had to go thru the pain that was this game

    gg wolves. vigg n i continue to never b the same alignment lmao

    thanks for host zork. i think the setup probably skews wolf on average but could b village sided depending on the rand/pills/claims i guess. i dont really think losing on 3 mls with 4 wolves itg is good
    I'm liking the feedback, especially since I have one who thinks it was townsided and one who think it skews wolf. I do think once I fix that one pill issue, the setup as a whole is fine, and I'm particularly proud that the anti-claim mechanism elegantly and effectively facilitated the open setup.
  14. Postgame#4145

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed If I don't post for a while, it's because I'm...

    If I don't post for a while, it's because I'm busy buying up all the salt mine stocks for incoming from baudib in 3....2....1....
  15. Postgame#4143

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed That's not fair, town deserves the perspective of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#4138)
    Oh $#@!ing right I was still right?

    Cool?

    Don’t have a sub in spot for an in ocent child that has already claimed
    That's not fair, town deserves the perspective of a known villager for as long as the mafia let that player remain alive.
  16. Postgame#4140

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    4,190
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    13,027

    Completed The backup works quicker if its assigned to a...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4134)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#4123)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4116)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4110)
    GG sorry if I was a jerk Michelle but you really got on my nerves.
    Not that that's an excuse but I hope you can forgive me for adapting a somewhat nasty tooth and claw strategy today.



    Ty Zork for hosting, was a weird but interesting setup. I think maybe it was a bit villa sided if not for the missed pills, which also made the game very random nevausee it can either kill clears or strong prs or help with the poe
    You're welcome.

    Pills will be modified so non-submitters are given their own zero pills...submitters would still be randed.

    Hard disagree on villa sided. You do realize Town had to lynch correctly today, d5, AND d6 to win?

    Cops needed to play ABC and Powerchooser needed to stay vanilla and PRs needed not to claim so anticlaim wouldnt make wolves peek green. Only 2 of those 3 needs were met, so here we are, with a mafia victory.
    We effectively have normal wolf power team + 1KP (so 2 in total) , but we don't have day communication.

    Village has seer with N0, double peek on N1 and then peeks every day (until d6, at least), spread over two people meaning it takes longer to find and kill both.

    In addition to that they have doctor every night, also on two different people and then they have a full JK.

    If wolf poisoner is peeked or something and killed early, game is essentially over. I think maybe the backup should be universal backup so he also backs up poisoner if he dies first, but I'm not sure.
    The backup works quicker if its assigned to a role because the universal backerupper has to choose who to backup if they die...dont forget you guys did have a strongman and town had no healer and look how hard town struggled here and they still had to go 3 for 3 today, tomorrow, d6 at F3
  17. Postgame#4127

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed yw wws

  18. Postgame#4123

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
    Replies
    4,190
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    13,027

    Completed You're welcome. Pills will be modified so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4116)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#4110)
    GG sorry if I was a jerk Michelle but you really got on my nerves.
    Not that that's an excuse but I hope you can forgive me for adapting a somewhat nasty tooth and claw strategy today.



    Ty Zork for hosting, was a weird but interesting setup. I think maybe it was a bit villa sided if not for the missed pills, which also made the game very random nevausee it can either kill clears or strong prs or help with the poe
    You're welcome.

    Pills will be modified so non-submitters are given their own zero pills...submitters would still be randed.

    Hard disagree on villa sided. You do realize Town had to lynch correctly today, d5, AND d6 to win?

    Cops needed to play ABC and Powerchooser needed to stay vanilla and PRs needed not to claim so anticlaim wouldnt make wolves peek green. Only 2 of those 3 needs were met, so here we are, with a mafia victory.
  19. Postgame#4118

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Viggo was the lead wagon for exactly 35 hours and...

    Viggo was the lead wagon for exactly 35 hours and 58 minutes, but he lives.

    I cannot express in words my reaction to all of this, which I railed hard.

    Town had to lynch correctly not only today, but d5 and d6 as well.

    Because even if town lynches WWS d5, he will suicide bomb before that happens, like one minute before, and then the second wagon will be lynched, so town probably loses d5, and even if they don't, they have to get to creature and ensure the odd doc is around to heal the right person and etc etc

    I put the chance of town winning at 2% earlier d4 (yesterday), but I thought they could at least take step one of the Journey to the Miracle Victory by lynching viggo today. I had no inkling Town would turn on a dime ten minutes before EOD the other day (Marl lynch) nor 2 minutes before EOD today. Amazing blinks, flinches, whatever you want to call them.

    And the Mountain of Salt that some must feel is real.
  20. Postgame#4107

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    Completed https://discord.gg/94DysCw

  21. Postgame#4104

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor.

    Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor.
  22. Night 3#3504

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Abraxas was a cop.

    Abraxas was a cop.
  23. Day 3#3327

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Contrainer and YOLOSWAG have died. They were...

    Contrainer and YOLOSWAG have died. They were non-cop Town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork
    ***DO NOT REFERENCE THIS PM IN THE GAME THREAD. THIS PM WILL BE POSTED IN THE GAME THREAD BETWEEN 6PM AND 7PM ET TODAY.***

    Dear Contrainer and Yoloswag,

    You are about to die. Starting now and continuing until 6pm ET, you may post only gifs, images, or words having to do with how sick you feel. Like "ack" or "barf" or "***moan***." You cannot say anything substantive. You must not use actual words that mean things, just your best rendition of a melodramatic poisoned person, like lolcats only think of them as sickcats.

    You don't have to post anything at all, but those are the restrictions if you do choose to post.

    Please unvote immediately regardless of what you choose to do.

    Please let's have fun with this and play this up right.

    Limit your posts to 30 maximum between now and 6pm ET, after which you may not post.

    For your last post, you may say "I have died" or "I hereby draw my last breath" or something similar. I will then come in a few minutes later and change your status to dead.

    Thank you for being good sports about this!!!

    ***DO NOT REFERENCE THIS PM IN THE GAME THREAD. THIS PM WILL BE POSTED IN THE GAME THREAD BETWEEN 6PM AND 7PM ET TODAY.***
  24. Day 3#3316

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed https://i.pinimg.com/736x/93/e9/14/93e914727e133ab...



    You see Townies Contrainer and YOLOSWAG (minus the usual amount of swag) walking under a piano, with Zork oddly hovering his finger over a barely discernable button on his Keyboard O' Power...

    What could possibly go wrong?
  25. Day 3#3261

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed You all notice Contrainer and YOLOSWAG turning a...

    You all notice Contrainer and YOLOSWAG turning a bit blue...peaked, I guess you could say. Slouched. Not looking themselves. Like they ate something a couple days ago that never did sit quite right...

    Keep observing, Townfolk...more info to come...
  26. Replies
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    Strategy I don't have time to play but I wholeheartedly...

    I don't have time to play but I wholeheartedly endorse whatever Rick is trying to do because he was the best player of everybody in the game I just ran (and he still lost lol). I know that he will bring that level of dedication and attention to detail as a host.

    Edit: This should run with 10 or not at all. 10 is best for game play and balance. Definitely don't run with odd number.
  27. Day 3#2540

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed Only 2 players of the 12 presently alive said...

    Only 2 players of the 12 presently alive said "no" to extending d3 by 24 hours so that it ends Sun Aug 18 at 8pm ET. Standard practice, at least when was new to ww/mafia, is not to have days end on Saturday nights because people tend to be busy doing other things, which is why I asked. If there were 4 dissents, I'd leave it alone, but since there are only 2, I'm going ahead and updating the clock momentarily.

    glgl
  28. Day 3#2522

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed LordQuas was not a cop.

    LordQuas was not a cop.
  29. Night 2#2445

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed BATMAN was a cop.

    BATMAN was a cop.
  30. #10

    Thread: Role Request: Follower

    by Zork
    Replies
    13
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    148

    I would love this. Frankly the ability to change...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan (#8)
    Quote Originally Posted by bearsquared (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#6)
    This role is probably for bearsquareds new setup


    This time i know im right

    Jokes on you it has to be run manually for the Scared modifier anyway. I just think it's a good role to have in the stable for automated games.
    Is there no way to change someone to a VT mid-game in an automated setup?
    I would love this. Frankly the ability to change someone to any other modbot supported role of the same alignment, ideally. Makaze, I owe you take 3 on that test btw. Tomorrow night.
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    Setup Idea I think I've solved the anticlaim by having the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#2)
    Quote Originally Posted by bearsquared (#1)
    Scared is a modifier that vanillaizes a player if they claim their role. Has to be done manually by definition, and the intention here is to be pretty liberal when interpreting what is a claim or not, and treating most softs and signaling as a claim.
    They way i judge this for mashes and stuff that have lots of "anti-claim" mechs is:

    Did their post/soft/claim make them unlynchable? If yes, it's a claim.
    I think I've solved the anticlaim by having the town bet their life on not claiming and the wolf betting their life in identifying a claim.
  32. Rejected Why do we even require this again?

    Why do we even require this again?
  33. #71

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
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    544

    You're right, it is irrational to be against...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#64)
    Also if you want to open a can of worms we can discuss pre-randing shots vs randing them on the fly and see how many irrational preferences people have
    You're right, it is irrational to be against pre-randing. If you read the article by the owner of random.org, you will find that the numbers we get were randed in the past. They are not generated from contemporaneous sources. This does not make them any less random, nor is the method any more susceptible to what is probably non-existent abuse by hosts.
  34. #61

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    simple solution = consider ITA immunity bastard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#51)
    Hit! No one has died
    Vs
    Miss


    I think years of mashes on POG would have most people there agreeing that MISS is the better option. For both alignments.

    Sucks when being ITA immune ends up being a negative utility role, because one stray hit and you get auto-lynched.
    simple solution = consider ITA immunity bastard and make the standard operating procedure "miss."
  35. Day 2#951

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed A clarification to address a loophole I thought...

    A clarification to address a loophole I thought of in bed last night and that should not be read into as necessarily presently being the case in whole or in part: A power-chooser choosing to be poisonproof would have no protection against a "zero pill" having been swallowed because per the wording of the role description, it results in resurrection versus modbot-induced death by poison, not that induced by a pill.
  36. Day 2#948

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
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    13,027

    Completed not a cop

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#940)
    The Innocent and the Tree Night 1 Results

    insomnia was killed. They were: Town.

    Night 1 has ended.

    Night 1 ended at 8:00 AM EDT on Wednesday, August 14th, 2019.
    not a cop
  37. #48

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    Elegant idea as an alternative to ITAs or to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by [NSM] Mikey (#15)
    Why aren't there ita immune villagers to begin with?

    Also I hate itas because people hero shoot me, I would rather just have access to multiple lynches in a day phase
    People probably poe shoot you

    Multiple mislynches a day is weird to do cause players can only vote on 1 person at a time.
    Elegant idea as an alternative to ITAs or to reduce their involvement/impact while retaining the community consensus aspect of a lynch:

    --Using the existing modbot feature of proxy voting, which consists of a drop-down menu, make that menu capable of two selections, then submit. You are then showing as having voted to lynch Player A and Player B. This would facilitate games where you would want two lynches per day in a way that more accurately captures the will of the plurality than simply stating the top two vote getters are lynched. I will bring it up to makaze later, to whom I still owe another test run of something else that's been added.
  38. #47

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    I don't dispute your valid point about the more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#45)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#3)
    I will do a paper this fall on how town KP is not all it's cracked up to be, and an important component of proving or disproving that theory is going to be my painful and painstaking analysis of night vigs, day vigs, and ITA shots (miss or not) by town and what percentage those were directed at town vis-a-vis the percentage of town players alive at the time of shot and whether the shots were better, worse, or at rand.
    Umm....

    Let X be the number of mafia, then a game of (3X+1) town and X mafia usually gives town 2X total lynches in a standard setup.

    Now let's assume town only get 1.5*X kills. That means they have to be 66% accurate in their means of killing to win. Very hard with mafia having a little more liberty to bus in it.

    Conversely say town get 3*X kills. Then they have to be right only 33% of the time. That means they learn more information and have more educated plays. Mafia are required to keep themselves together better to avoid targets in general.

    tl;dr. More kp = more room for error = easier for town to win.

    QED
    I don't dispute your valid point about the more KP the town can throw against the wall to see what sticks, eventually because of the sheer numbers disparity between town and mafia from the get-go, it will tend towards a winning formula. I just think the shots are about rand, and ITAs as they are presently incorporated don't nearly go enough toward reaching that state toward which the numbers tend, if that makes any sense.

    It's not significant at the levels presently used in ITAs. So now my argument against them becomes more the town should do better than rand at killing wolves when the function includes the input of the plurality of the player base, which usually corresponds to a plurality of the town, especially in a large mash. Hero shots, or grudge shots, or policy shots, are probably not as good in terms of accuracy as lynches. That's another aspect of the paper I need to research about.
  39. #42

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    also have it so modbot randomly opens and closes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#23)
    immunity works like the second option you're suggesting for dodge right now as far as i know. you can set it to percents between 0 and 100 it's not a on/off toggle

    a thing i'd really really like to see is modbot support for miss on ita shields, like. a toggle like for immunity. i'd think it should be fairly simple to implement?

    additive and multiplicative as options for both dodge/vuln is a pretty cool idea
    also have it so modbot randomly opens and closes ITA sessions.

    like you pick a window and the range of sessions (1-3, for example) and the range of minutes for each session (15-45 minutes, for example)...would definitely add some excitement
  40. #41

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    Yes, but how often has that been happening the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#20)
    Quote Originally Posted by [NSM] Mikey (#19)
    I'm not sure itas are pro town even, since I see wolves win mashes way more often
    itas used well and not taken over by wolves or just let run wild are pro town
    Yes, but how often has that been happening the last couple years? A minority of the games, you'd agree, right?
  41. #40

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by [NSM] Mikey (#19)
    I'm not sure itas are pro town even, since I see wolves win mashes way more often
    agreed
  42. #38

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    I see your point. OK then, I think standard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#16)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#2)
    I don't like ITAs because they frequently are 100% in mashes and those folks take hero shots that have a hit rate no better than rand (kills town 3/4 of the time).

    Even when they're just 15%, they have a chance to kill a player, which ends that player's participation. Death should be by lynch. I don't know when it got popular to make games as short as possible. What is wrong with one lynch and one factional kill per night? So what if the game is big and takes 3 weeks to complete? Very few people are going to be still playing that third week. The queue has a 2-week gap between large games, so it's not like there is competition in a major way. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more than 2 deaths per cycle, I'm just saying ITAs are like candy--a brief sugar high then what, they can't post any more.

    I tried as an experiment making it so you had to be hit 3 times by ITA to die (closed cemetery, resurrected after the first two hits) while increasing the to-hit percentage. I'll be honest, the experiment was meh. Just letting you know.

    One feature I think would be fun to add to modbot to facilitate a different version of ITAs is for the ability of a player to send a PM to modbot instead of posting in red bold in the game thread, such that when the PM is received, modbot posts "A shot rings out!" with either a "no one died" or a "Player X is dead" automatic post.

    In combination with or separate from that feature, there should be a way to do Poison ITAs, so that when you hit a player, they are simply poisoned and die either at that EOD or the following EOD depending on what the host sets in modbot. This is moving in a direction of trying to make mashes as modbot-friendly as possible so that you don't have to go the manual route necessarily.

    I prefer giving players roles like poisoner which facilitates the death but stretches out the targeted player's participation as long as possible--best of both worlds. Instead of ITAs, you can make them poisoner, suicide bomber, double voter, arsonist--lots of ways to kill that are creative, unique within that particular setup, and don't just blammo before the target gets a chance to participate that day. Yeah thats another thing, ITAs are bad for that reason as well...I'm all for death, don't get me wrong, but it should be at EOD or SOD (or as close as possible to those times) so everyone's schedules are respected for the duration of the game day.

    /rant
    i mean i think you're saying here that you just fundamentally... dislike the sort of thing a lot of people seek out when they decide to play a mash / the things that make people who like itas like itas

    which is 100% fine but it's not a "problem" with mashes per se in the sense of... normal mashes should be made different, because i'd say most people or at least a large portion seek them out for at least some of exactly the things you're listing off that you dislike.

    as long as people know what they're getting into there's nothing wrong with trying different mechs, though, but i do think your target audience for games that fundamentally diverge from a typical mash is going to be a bit different than that of a mash
    I see your point.

    OK then, I think standard ITA to-hit should be 18%.
  43. Night 1#939

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
    Replies
    4,190
    Views
    13,027

    Completed Relm was not one of the two cops.

    Relm was not one of the two cops.
  44. #3

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    I will do a paper this fall on how town KP is not...

    I will do a paper this fall on how town KP is not all it's cracked up to be, and an important component of proving or disproving that theory is going to be my painful and painstaking analysis of night vigs, day vigs, and ITA shots (miss or not) by town and what percentage those were directed at town vis-a-vis the percentage of town players alive at the time of shot and whether the shots were better, worse, or at rand.
  45. #2

    Thread: ITAs, UTAs, WeAllTAs

    by Zork
    Replies
    80
    Views
    544

    I don't like ITAs because they frequently are...

    I don't like ITAs because they frequently are 100% in mashes and those folks take hero shots that have a hit rate no better than rand (kills town 3/4 of the time).

    Even when they're just 15%, they have a chance to kill a player, which ends that player's participation. Death should be by lynch. I don't know when it got popular to make games as short as possible. What is wrong with one lynch and one factional kill per night? So what if the game is big and takes 3 weeks to complete? Very few people are going to be still playing that third week. The queue has a 2-week gap between large games, so it's not like there is competition in a major way. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more than 2 deaths per cycle, I'm just saying ITAs are like candy--a brief sugar high then what, they can't post any more.

    I tried as an experiment making it so you had to be hit 3 times by ITA to die (closed cemetery, resurrected after the first two hits) while increasing the to-hit percentage. I'll be honest, the experiment was meh. Just letting you know.

    One feature I think would be fun to add to modbot to facilitate a different version of ITAs is for the ability of a player to send a PM to modbot instead of posting in red bold in the game thread, such that when the PM is received, modbot posts "A shot rings out!" with either a "no one died" or a "Player X is dead" automatic post.

    In combination with or separate from that feature, there should be a way to do Poison ITAs, so that when you hit a player, they are simply poisoned and die either at that EOD or the following EOD depending on what the host sets in modbot. This is moving in a direction of trying to make mashes as modbot-friendly as possible so that you don't have to go the manual route necessarily.

    I prefer giving players roles like poisoner which facilitates the death but stretches out the targeted player's participation as long as possible--best of both worlds. Instead of ITAs, you can make them poisoner, suicide bomber, double voter, arsonist--lots of ways to kill that are creative, unique within that particular setup, and don't just blammo before the target gets a chance to participate that day. Yeah thats another thing, ITAs are bad for that reason as well...I'm all for death, don't get me wrong, but it should be at EOD or SOD (or as close as possible to those times) so everyone's schedules are respected for the duration of the game day.

    /rant
  46. Day 1#140

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
    Replies
    4,190
    Views
    13,027

    Completed On day 1 only, the rule requiring 5 posts by 12...

    On day 1 only, the rule requiring 5 posts by 12 hours before EOD will not be enforced.
  47. Pregame#2

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
    Replies
    4,190
    Views
    13,027

    Completed The Innocent and the Tree: Game Information!...

    The Innocent and the Tree: Game Information!

    This is an automated game of Mafia.


    Setup - 17 Players

    x1 Mafia Vigilante | x1 Strongman
    x1 Backup Mafia Vigilante
    x1 Mafia Poisoner
    x1 Mafia Suicide Bomber | Cycle 3, 5
    x1 Town Alignment Cop | Cycle 9 | Odd Night
    x1 Town Alignment Cop | Cycle 10
    x5 Vanilla Town
    x1 Town Treestump
    x1 Town Jack of All Trades (x1 Framer) | Cycle 8
    x1 Town Doctor | Even Night
    x1 Town Innocent Child | Cycle 2, 4
    x1 Town Jailkeeper
    x1 Town Doctor | Odd Night
    See post 1.

    Phase Lengths

    Days are 36 hours in length. Nights are 12 hours in length.

    Players

    @Abraxas
    @BATMAN
    @baudib1
    @Contrainer
    @Creature
    @DoubtingThomas
    @Garden Gnome
    @Impeaceful
    @insomnia
    @Marluxion
    @Relm
    @Sherlock Holmes
    @Sparkin
    @Trustworthy Liberal
    @Viggorous
    @WaywardSon
    @Wildfire

    FAQ

    Are you unsure about how actions are processed or how roles interact with each other? Then read more here:

    ORDER OF OPERATIONS

    Night actions are processed in this order:

    Strongman kills
    Roleblocks
    Jails
    Doctors
    Bodyguards
    Kills
    Investigations
    Backups

    When an action was submitted during the night will never matter when the actions are processed.

    ACTION FEEDBACK

    These are the results you will get when you submit certain actions.

    Non-investigative roles when they submit an action (they also receive this if they are roleblocked):

    Your action on Player A was received.
    Investigative actions return results even if the target dies on the same night.

    Actions that count as visits are counted as visits even if the actor dies on the same night.

    Investigative roles (Tracker, Cop, etc.) when roleblocked:

    Your action on Player B did not return any results.
    Trackers when tracking a person that didn't visit anyone (or if they targeted a Ninja):

    Player C did not visit anyone.
    Watchers when watching a person that wasn't visited by anyone (or only visited by a Ninja):

    Player D was not visited by anyone.
    Alignment Cop when investigating a town-aligned player (or a Godfather):

    Player E is Town
    Watcher when watching a person that was visited by multiple people:

    Player F was visited by Player G, Player H, Player I
    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    How do I submit my action?
    Use the form below the game thread. If your role has a night action, the form will only be visible during night phases. It's not possible to submit actions in advance of the night phase.

    What does it mean if the Mafia Host says that night kills are assigned?
    In games with this setting turned on, the member of the mafia team that made the most recent night kill submission will be the one assigned to the kill, which means that the kill can be blocked if a Town Roleblocker or Town Jailkeeper target the mafia player in question. Similarly, the kill can be tracked and watched by Town Trackers and Town Watchers. If this setting isn't turned on, then it doesn't matter who the last person to submit the mafia kill is, as the kill is unblockable and untrackable in this case.

    Where do I find example role PM's?
    This thread contains example role PM's for all roles currently supported by the Modbot as well as information on the various modifiers. Here you will find the answers to a lot of questions not covered in this FAQ section.

    Which roles can self-target?
    Only Watchers are able to use their ability on themselves at night. This means that Doctors or Jailkeepers aren't able to protect themselves, for example.

    Which roles are not able to target the same players on consecutive nights?
    Doctors, Jailkeepers, and Roleblockers are not allowed to target the same player twice in a row. Everyone else is, including Bodyguards. Note that this non-consecutive restriction still holds true even if one of these three roles were blocked the night before when targeting the person that they're attempting to target again.

    What happens if Jailkeeper A and Jailkeeper B or Roleblocker A and Roleblocker B target each other (and are not targetted by other blockers)?
    In the case of Jailkeepers, they will block and protect each other. In the case of Roleblockers, they also block each other. This means that the two players are trackable to each other that night by Trackers and Watchers. It also means that if one of them is mafia and happens to simultaneously be the one submitting the factional kill that night in a game with assigned kills, then this kill is blocked. This same principle applies to longer loops. I.e. in a A > B > C > D > A loop, everyone is blocked.

    What happens if Jailkeeper A targets Roleblocker B who targets Jailkeeper A?
    Jailkeeper A will be blocked in this scenario. Refer to the order of operations: Roleblocks process before jails.

    What happens if Jailkeeper A targets Roleblocker B who targets Player C?
    As stated above, roleblocks process before jails, so Roleblocker B will successfully block Player C. I.e. Jailkeeper A will fail to block Roleblocker B, but will still protect Roleblocker B.

    What happens if Jailkeeper A targets Jailkeeper B and Jailkeeper B targets Jailkeeper C (who isn't targeting any of the former two)?
    In this case, Jailkeeper A would prevent Jailkeeper B's block from occuring, meaning that Jailkeeper C's action is not blocked.

    If an X-Shot role is blocked while using a shot, do they lose that shot forever?
    Yes. A 1-shot Vigilante being blocked while attempting to kill someone will not have their shot refunded.

    If someone with a Strongman modifier kills Player A who is protected by Bodyguard B, who dies?
    Player A will die, and Bodyguard B will survive.

    Can a mafia team choose not to kill anyone during a night?
    The host can determine this using the Mafia Factional Kill setting. Kills can be mandatory, optional, or disabled altogether.

    The default is No. The mafia factional kill is compulsory. This is done in order to avoid deadlocked games where the town keeps no lynching and the mafia refuses to submit a kill. If the game has assigned kills, it will be randomized which member of the team is carrying out the kill.

    If there is only one mafia member left in a game without assigned kills, can the mafia factional kill then be blocked and/or tracked?
    No.

    Can the mafia submit a kill for one of their own members?
    No.

    If I kill someone, does their night action, if they have one, still succeed?
    Yes, killing someone doesn't prevent them from performing their night action (unless they investigated someone, in which case they will not receive a report). Refer to the order of operations: All kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.

    Can individual night actions be proxied on mafia teams?
    No. If the mafia team has a Mafia Roleblocker, for example, and they want to use this role's action, then the player occupying that slot must submit the action themselves.

    If a Lover is shot during the night, while the other Lover is protected that night, does the other Lover still die?
    Yes. It's not possible to prevent a Lover from dying of love sickness.

    If a Bodyguard protects Lover A, while Lover B is shot during that same night, what happens?
    A dies of love sickness and Bodyguard lives.

    If there are any Innocent Childs in the game, are these confirmed in the thread right when the game begins?
    No. Innocent Childs are able to decide themselves when or if they wish to have the Modbot confirm their role and alignment in the thread. Note that this is exclusively a day action and that it can take up to one minute for the Modbot to process the action.

    What results are Alignment Cops, Full Cops and Role Cops given if they investigate a Godfather or a Miller?
    Alignment Cops are told "Town" for Godfathers and "Mafia" for Millers. Full Cops are told "Vanilla Town" for Godfathers and "Mafia Goon" for Millers. Role Cops are told "Godfather" for Godfathers and "Miller" for Millers.

    Can Role Cops tell the difference between a Vanilla Town and Mafia Goon?
    No. They are told "Vanilla" when investigating either of these two roles.

    If I roleblock someone with a Bulletproof Vest, will that nullify the effect of the vest?
    No. Bulletproof Vests are passive modifiers that cannot be blocked from working.

    If I roleblock Masons, Neighbors or Lovers with out of thread communication privileges, can I prevent them from talking at night?
    No.

    If I roleblock a Godfather, will they still be revealed as being town-aligned to Alignment Cops and Full Cops that night?
    Yes.

    USING THE SOFTWARE

    Are you wondering about how to vote, submit night actions or multi-isolate players? Read about this and more here:

    VOTING BBCODES

    Our forum votes for someone by using the vote tags: [V]Thingyman[/V]. Preview:

    ##Vote Thingyman

    Make sure that you spell out the full, correct name. Abbreviations or misspelled names will not be registered by the Modbot.

    To unvote, use the tags: [UNV][/UNV] . When unvoting you do not need to enter the name of the person that you are unvoting. Preview:

    ##Unvote

    VOTING BUTTONS

    You can also quickly vote for someone by clicking on the box with a checkmark icon, which will bring up an alphabetized dropdown containing the names of living players:



    This will insert [V][/V] tags with the name of the player you selected in the dropdown, perfect every time.

    Click the empty checkbox button to insert [UNV][/UNV].

    SUBMITTING NIGHT ACTIONS

    If you have a night action, simply submit this at night by scrolling to the bottom of the game thread. Here you will find a night action form like this:



    Click the dropdown and select the player whom you wish to use your night action on. You can change it as many times as you wish before the deadline expires.

    CALLING UP A VOTECOUNT

    Votecounts will appear automatically at various intervals, but you can also call up votecounts yourself by following these steps:

    First, you need to apply to join "Mafia Game Hosts" under Permission Groups.

    Second, once your request has been approved, you will be able to call up votecounts by simply pushing the "Post Votecount" button in the top right corner of any game thread that you'd like an updated votecount for.


    VIEWING VOTE HISTORY

    There are three ways to access the vote history for any game.

    1. Click on the "Vote History" button in the top right corner of the game thread:

    2. Click on the "View Vote History" link, which accompanies all votecounts:

    3. Click on Modbot in the top forum menu. This will give you a list of ongoing and completed games:



      Next, simply click on "Vote History" to view all votes for that game.

    Following any of the above three steps will bring you to an overview like this one:



    Click on a Voter's username to view all of the votes by their slot.

    Click on a Target's username to view all of the votes for their slot.

    ISOLATING A PLAYER'S POSTS

    If you wish to read a player's posts in isolation, simply click on "ISO" in the top right corner of one of that player's posts in the relevant thread as illustrated here:



    Alternatively, you can access a player's posts in isolation by clicking on the number next to "Replies:" in the forum lobby.



    Doing so will pull up a window listing the post counts for everyone who has posted in that thread. You access someone's posts in isolation by simply clicking on the number next to "Posts:" for that person.



    The ISO view itself has Quote and Multi-Quote buttons inside it, which will make it very easy to quickly quote a lot of a player's posts for analysis or commentary:


    MULTI-ISOLATING

    If you wish to read not just one player's posts, but you want to ISO multiple players, then click the "Multi ISO" button to the left of "Game Tools" and select the players in question as shown here:


    MULTI-QUOTING WHILE THREAD IS LOCKED

    Note that you can multi-quote posts from even locked game threads. This is useful for when you wish to reread the game and do work during night phases.

    After quoting the relevant posts, you simply open a different, opened thread and press "Go Advanced". Then add the quotes to your post by clicking the prompt below the post area as shown here:



    Now, of course you can't post your work in the game thread while the thread is locked, but you can copy paste and save your work to a local file or the cloud and have it ready to post the very next day phase (if you're still alive, that is).

    BOOKMARKS

    Whenever you open a game thread, you are able to bookmark posts. This is for many players an important tool for keeping track of and remembering vital pieces of information, reads, claims etc.

    Also, note that these bookmarks are saved to your user account, meaning that it eliminates the trouble associated with keeping notes between different computers/devices.

    If you want to bookmark a post, you simply scroll to the post that you want to bookmark and press "Set Bookmark" as shown here:



    This will call up 5 different colored icons (Blue, Red, Yellow, Green, and Black) on the right side of the post in question. You can click any of these icons, which will then prompt you to include a note for the post.

    If you don't want to include a note, you don't have to - just leave it blank. The color coding in itself can be a valuable tool. Maybe you want to use Red bookmarks for posts that you find suspicious, Green bookmarks for posts that you find townie, Black bookmarks for posts containing claims, or whatever system you can think of that will be helpful to you.



    Once this is done, you have now successfully bookmarked a post with a certain color and maybe even a note. If you wish to remove the bookmark again, click on "Unset Bookmark".

    How do I access bookmarks?

    There are two ways to access your bookmarks.
    1. Inside a game thread, you can access the bookmarks for that specific game by simply right clicking on the "Bookmark" button and opening the link.

      This will bring you to a separate page that is automatically filtered to only show bookmarks from the game thread that you accessed the page from.
    2. You can also access your bookmarks by going to Features in the site's top menu:



      This will bring you to a page where no bookmarks are shown by default. However, you have several filtering options.

      You can filter by Game, by Player and by Color - and all of them at once if you so wish.

      Here's an example of filtering by only red bookmarks in one specific game:



    If you want to be taken directly to one of your bookmarked posts, you just click the post number.

    How do I quote bookmarks?

    You can also multi-quote bookmarked posts by clicking the little "+" button seen above on the far right side of each bookmark.

    Once you have multi-quoted all the bookmarked posts that you want to quote, you will then have to go to the game thread in which you wish to quote the bookmarked posts.

    Here you have two ways of quoting the posts.

    1. Click on "Reply With Quote" on another post as shown here:



      You will then probably want to delete the last post quoted in the reply box, but otherwise you should be good to go.
    2. Or you can do the more smooth option and click the "Reply To Thread" button at the top and bottom of the game thread - as shown here:



      By doing this you will open up a reply box containing only your multi-quoted bookmarked posts.


    The Town Jack of All Trades (x1 Framer) | Cycle 8 is actually the Power-Chooser.
    The Town Alignment Cop | Cycle 9 | Odd Night is actually the Odd-Night Cop.
    The Town Alignment Cop | Cycle 10 is actually the Cop | Cycles 1, 2, 4, 5.
  48. Replies
    4,190
    Views
    13,027

    Completed The Innocent and the Tree

    The Innocent and the Tree

    This is an automated game of Mafia.

    Players (17/17)
    1. Abraxas
    2. Contrainer
    3. Garden Gnome
    4. BATMAN
    5. Creature
    6. WaywardSon
    7. Relm
    8. Marluxion
    9. Insomnia
    10. Viggorous
    11. DoubtingThomas
    12. baudib1
    13. Impeaceful
    14. Wildfire
    15. Sherlock Holmes
    16. Trustworthy Liberal
    17. Sparkin

    Substitutes:
    1. PunchyTheCat
    2. Michelle
    3. LordQuas
    4. The Lukundo


    4 Mafia - No factional kill
    Mafia Vigilante | x1 Strongman
    Mafia Vigilante | Backup
    Mafia Poisoner
    Mafia Suicide Bomber | Cycle 3, 5

    13 Town
    Vanilla Town
    Vanilla Town
    Vanilla Town
    Vanilla Town
    Vanilla Town
    Town Alignment Cop | Odd Night
    Town Alignment Cop | Cycle 1, 2, 4, 5
    Town Doctor | Odd Night
    Town Doctor | Even Night
    Town Innocent Child | Cycle 2, 4
    Town Treestump
    Town Jailkeeper
    Power-Chooser - You are nightly allowed to choose permanently to become poisonproof and/or bulletproof. Poisonproof means you are resurrected during the first hour of the morning after modbot declares you have died from poison.
    --When only one of those powers is chosen, one of the other living Vanilla Town is randomly chosen to investigate as Mafia from that night onward.
    --When both of those powers are chosen, one of the other living Vanilla Town is randomly chosen to investigate as Mafia from that night onward, and one of the living Mafia who do not already investigate as Town is randomly chosen to investigate as Town from that night onward; this Mafioso is informed by PM during the first hour of the morning, "You now permanently peek as Town."

    Each Mafioso may nightly submit only one PM to the host naming a living Townie and his or her non-vanilla role except a revealed Innocent Child or dead Treestump. The role must be specified exactly. No result is provided. Re-submission of a previously correctly submitted player will be ignored.
    • An incorrect submission results in the death of the submitting Mafioso 2 to 4 hours before EOD.
    • The first correct submission results in an investigation of the submitting Mafioso's alignment returning as "Town" from that night forward.
    • A correct submission by a Mafioso who has already submitted correctly on a prior night will result in the death of the submitted Townie 2 to 4 hours before EOD.
    • On n0, only the Odd Night Cop receives a random town peek.
    • Day never ends early.
    • Town wins when all the Mafia have been eliminated or if the living members of the Town comprise greater than 75% of the living players at the end of d6.
    • The Mafia win when they achieve parity with the Town or if the living members of the Town comprise less than 75% of the living players at the end of d6.
    • The game ends in a draw if the Town comprises 75% of the living players at the end of d6.
    • Votes are not locked in at LYLO.
    • The Town must always lynch.
    • Mafia may communicate only during Night. However, if the Poisoner ever holsters or uses fake poison, Mafia may communicate 24/7 thereafter.
    • Tied votes are decided randomly.
    • At death, only the alignment flips; however, I will post within one hour after the flip "Cop" if the player was one of the two Cops.
    • Daily Posting Requirement: 5 posts by 12 hours before EOD and 15 posts by 4 hours before EOD, but posts longer than a tweet count double.
    Each Townie must, during the last 12 hours of d1, submit only one PM to the host containing a list of exactly 8 players most likely to flip red. Your list creates one of 13 pills. These pills are randomly distributed for mandatory swallowing n1 by all 13 Townies regardless of whether they are still alive. If your list has:
    • 1, 2, or 3 mafia on it, you have created a placebo pill with no effect on the swallower.
    • 4 mafia on it, you have created a pill granting 3 BPVs--one for the swallower and one for each of two other townies randomly chosen from among all townies who were alive at the start of the game.
    • 0 mafia on it, you have created a delayed poison pill that causes the death of the swallower 2-4 hours before the end of d3. Each player who fails to submit a list before the d1 lynch is announced will be presumed to have submitted a list with 0 mafia on it.

    Final notes from your host before the game begins...
    --The cops will be submitting their peeks manually to facilitate the mechanics of this game. The deadline is the same as automated, just be prepared not to get your results until the first hour of day.
    --Reminder that for automated modbot choices, you can change your mind all you want--your final choice is what counts. But for choices and actions that you submit manually, once you submit your PM that phase, you can't undo or correct it--your decision would be final.
    --The key to success in this game is for the Power-Chooser to remain a humble, powerless vanilla so that your cops' peeks can be relied upon. Another key is for the town not to claim roles and not to thunderdome someone who is claiming your role--they may be a townie trying to induce a false anti-claim to kill a wolf. A massclaim will end badly for the town. Trust me on this. I am not bluffing. But the choice is yours, and I have plenty of popcorn to eat as I watch you do whatever you do!
    --If your posts are substantive and longer than a tweet, your minimum is 3 posts by 8am ET (12 hours before EOD) and 8 posts by 4pm ET (4 hours before EOD). Meeting the minimum posting requirement as outlined in the setup will keep you from being subbed out.
    --Be nice to each other. I am particularly keen on no one being called an "idiot" because I hate being called an "idiot." So don't do that. This is a good group, so I anticipate no problems. I'm just going to hit report and let the moderators handle things if they do arise.
  49. Pregame#3

    Thread: The Innocent and the Tree

    by Zork
    Replies
    3
    Views
    154

    Completed Because of the mechanics of this game, peeks must...

    Because of the mechanics of this game, peeks must be processed manually. I could ask the Cops not to submit, but modbot would then process a peek randomly. Therefore, I must re-rand. I am sorry for this inconvenience, everyone.

    The problem that I just realized is that if a vanilla townie is meant to peek as mafia due to circumstances, the cops would realize that the only roles in the game that come back automatically as red are the true vanilla townies, so for me to come along and say no no trust me they are red will simply not be believed. I regret it took me so long to wrap my head around this concept, but at least I caught it before starting the game.

    The fix is simple: code the cops as VT and modify the contents of the role PM to reflect that they are in fact cops and when they may receive their peeks. Also make all VT true VT and not Millers. Also remove the Godfather from the Mafia since there will not be any automated peeks.

    Peeks will be received during the first hour of day.

    Again, sorry for the confusion. I have to re-rand. But I also have to go to work. I should get to the re-rand within the next 2 hours tops.
  50. Postgame#2177

    Thread: Secret Hitler

    by Zork
    Replies
    2,177
    Views
    10,496

    Also will get to that experiment of the modbot...

    Also will get to that experiment of the modbot fix as soon as I settle in at work in a couple hours...
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about us
Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

We hope you stick around!
Role of the Day
Disguiser

The Disguiser is a mafia-aligned player that may target a player every night. If the target dies on that night, the Disguiser will steal their identity.