Bowser! I told you i was ok with getting bussed if i believed you could carry and when MK set their eagle eyes on me i knew i was next and went into anti-spew mode. I did everything i could to look unpaired but honestly, you have more WIM than all towns combined.
It's been a honor playing with you and rest assured that in the next game when you rand town and i rand scum… I'm killing you first! No questions asked lol.
I will consider it a compliment as always.
Best way to make sure I don't come back is to shoot every inactive player. Particularly people with 1 post.
Mafia, or town vig, leave the D1 yeet for information flips not slank flips.
Make sure the zero posters die. Make sure the folks in danger of subbing out die.
Then wolves cannot slank, and Askthepizzaguy cannot do the elite sub ins. Or if he does, he gets blasted in the face immediately, and hilariously.
And you never know, that slot might suddenly become a Guillotina or something, too.
You miiiiiiiight want to destroy that slot before it is too late. Once we sub in, it is too late.
Originally Posted by King Bowser1632352705
Red mafia team was straight up robbed this game.
I will not allow it.
All the rest of you townies, you played well. I love you. I had to dunk on you, it's my job.
Great job, Bowser and the rest of the blue team.
Also, I did find this game very interesting. I loved all the discussions and solving. Felt a bit different than what I've experienced in other games. I appreciated all Bowser's advice, though now things are slightly tainted knowing he was a wolf.
It works exactly the same if you're town.
Why I snowed the village is because this is how I town.
If you play identically and your town game is strong, you can do anything you want.
Even tell a vig to shoot you when you're the last member of your faction alive, and there are still 2 yeets after that.
Uou and iawy both did the same "just kill me" gambit and it made solving really hard because there were two of them.
And Venti joined in after the decathlon, so there were THREE.
Thats why it worked.
If it was just me, I die.
But since townies were doing it, you think wolves are getting shut out.
Thats why the Thanatos Gambit worked here. It never works out too well if it is just me.
IAWY gave me inspiration, Venti copied it, and I went third in line.
I look just as villagery, so I get to f3 and youre dead.
Then whoever I can hit, I hit.
Whoever I cant, I explain why theyre the greatest townie ever.
When youre against a wall you can do nothing but fight hard. No fleeing, no defending, only attack.
CR you played well, I just have this psychic ability to always call wolves in my first scumread. I really don’t know how to handle mafia WIFOM because I haven’t played as scum in 4 years. I had trouble keeping motivation for this game after one of my family members passed away and I had a $%#! ton of work. Bowser thank you for making this game enjoyable
Oooh I kinda feel like I'm going to cry here.
I don't usually think my scum game is that good.
For whoever asked what forum I came from I played TOS and ToL when they came out. Played a bit of FoL ( and hosted ) and it overall was a terrible experience that made me quit playing mafia for 2 years. Joined MU because a friend was hosting a Pokémon game same terrible experience there. My last scum game was FoL 10 so like I litterally have no clue how people play scum.
Come to my discord mafia chat, and read all about it.
Use my knowledge, I beg you.
I can help you become stronger than any Jedi.
Learn to know the DARRRRK SIDE OF THE FORCE, and you can save your town (or your mafia team) from certain death.
As, after all...
The Dark side of the Force is a pathway to MANY abilities some consider to be unnatural.....
You are AUTOLYSIS MAN!, a human being with a rather unusual power... the ability to delay your death (albeit somewhat painfully). Rather than die as a normal person would, your body will remain alive until your lysosomes are able to release a quantity of enzymes necessary to destroy your entire body at once. You will use your bizarre power to assist the town.
Slow Digestion - Whenever you are killed, whether this be by a night kill, a day execution, or some other means, you will remain alive for six additional day or night phases (so if you are executed D1 you will live until the end of D4). Your role and affiliation will not be revealed until your actual death (though if the mafia night hit you then they will be informed that your death will come, just delayed, so that they don’t waste another night hit). After you have been hit/executed/whatever else, however, you must scream in agony with every post you make, or else you will be mod-killed (lysosomes love agony! ... or something like that).
Essentially, you become a tree stump who can still vote. But you have to roleplay your character's slow, cruel demise.
If the mafia have majority if you were dead, and your death sequence has been triggered, you are counted as dead for the purposes of majority, and the mafia will win as you rapidly become goo.
Based off of the character I created in this short story, a play on the name of a player I once knew called Autolycus.
"You find a discount bin full of superpowers. What superpowers are in it?
Autolysis. The power to spontaneously digest oneself!
I don’t even keep looking. I grab it, knowing full well the awesome power that now lay in my hand. I don my cape and become the crime-fighting superhero: AUTOLYSIS MAN!!!!
Hark, I hear a citizen in trouble. Away I run in a flash, prepared to take on a whole army of foes single-handed. Possibly even no-handed.
It appears to be a little old lady, whose purse was stolen. “Stop! Thief!” the woman shouts. I identify the culprit and chase the thug into an alley, where I corner him.
“HAND OVER THE PURSE!” I roar, mightily. The villain, finding his exit blocked off by lazy writing, has no choice. He reaches for a gun, and points it at me. I chortle in defiance. “A simple firearm is no match for me, hapless villain. Now surrender!”
The thug panics and opens fire. I sustain multiple bullet wounds, and am now bleeding profusely with seemingly mortal wounds.
“Very well, stubborn foe, now I shall unleash my ultimate superpower!” I shout, as the villain backs into a corner.
I begin screaming in horrendous pain, as a massive release of enzymes fills my bloodstream, and my body begins to dissolve right before the villain’s eyes. Slowly, and painfully, the enzymes break down the components of my body. I fall to the ground, mouth foaming, convulsing, body twitching, my voice gurgling and choking on my own liquefied effluence.
The villain witnesses this horror, drops the purse, $%#!s his pants, and runs away screaming like a stuck pig. Within a few hours, I am nothing but a runny pile of mostly digested organs and a skeleton.
Eventually, I presume the little old lady finds her purse. And not at all surprisingly, the day has been saved, by none other than the greatest superhero of all time: AUTOLYSIS MAN!!!
Pizza my bro!!!!! How the heck are ya homie?!?!?!?!?
I am good. We're on baby number 2 apprival watch over here. Sooh is days past her dooh date.
So, in a few days we will likely have baby pictures on discord or facebook. More than we have already.
Meanwhile, I am writing a town+mafia player's guide based on my 12 years of playing experience, since I can't play mafia right now nor in the foreseeable future. So look forward to that. It's going to be a rather beefy tome.
(Your mileage may vary. I had some performances last year I wish I could take back...)
That being said, James McCloud is still the goat.
I have a little thank-you speech, as i am going away so I wanted to address that and also say thanks for this nice award at the same time. It is spoilered so as not to distract from the rest of the awards ceremony, and if people want to reply or comment a separate thread or my inbox is preferred. @ me and whatnot.
Thanks for the nom for the substitute player thingy, people. As it happens, my final game was an example of me subbing into a game.
As I recover from COVID-19 (been sick for a month) I look forward to my wife, Sooh, and I expecting our second child in August, rendering my retirement from mafia games permanent.
It is with great fondness that I look back on the hundreds of games played and thousands of friends made over the past 12 years of mafia play.
In my final year, I actually got good at being a townie. I wrecked a wolf or multiple wolves every game and our towns actually started winning. Being town is much, much harder than being mafia, in my opinion.
I've never had a problem being scum. But in my heart, I was always more concerned with the contribution to town's efforts in the guessing game aspect. And warning folks about stuff I saw that I've seen mafiosi do many times, trying to make sure our team didn't get the wool pulled over our eyes.
After being on a losing streak since 2017, 2020 was the year town pizza turned it all around.
It was also a year where I made some townies minds explode as scum, as per usual. But even the few mafia losses I had were extraordinary.
Being scum with the marblelympics team was one of the best experiences of my life, even though we lost. We put up a fight for the ages, and a big part of that was our deep wolf Nic Cage, of which Frog was one of the four faces.
I cheered you guys on so hard in dead chat. I must have had like 8,000 posts there.
In my final game, I was town and I cornered the four mafia by day 2 using Newcomb's Box method. I had something like 13 straight townies in my towncore and I had two scums in my bottom 2, and we yeeted one. I died N2.
I subbed in to one of the two inactive scum slots and then fought hard for the wolf team, who would have won if not for the town finally reversing course (in overtime! Had the final day ended on time, we would have won! Day was extended...).
We played a crazy $%#! gambit. We double sacrificed two of our scums in trouble, and made our final wolf go super deep.
Like marblelympics, we came up just barely short, but it was a fight for the ages and we were in the driver's seat after a well-executed plan to make town collapse in on itself.
It's funny.... no matter what I could have done after that sub-in, I was always going to both win and lose the game, since I had been on both teams. if I did my job and fought hard for the scums, it wasn't going to improve my win record any.
But stats are bull$%#! anyway. It's not about your win/loss record. It's about showing up and playing with style, and making a few friends along the way.
Had to do it. For the love of the game, for the love of game hosts everywhere who are sick and tired of player slots going inactive. For the love of the mafia team, who deserved every chance, every body, and an opportunity to put up a good fight. And so the town had someone really slippery that they could chase, which provides most the fun that is derived from being a townie.
Overall, in 12 years, I almost certainly had a win loss record as town that was under 50%. 2020 was no different. I tried so hard, and only got so far.... until about halfway through the year, when town started winning. And once we did, we never lost again.
I actually had a town win streak. That never happens for me.
I achieved what I really wanted most of all, after all those years of trying to be a good townie: actually being good for my team.
All too often, there's diminishing returns to the bluster, the accusations, the pro-active interrogation, the walls of words. The post count. As a townie teammate, you really had to know me and know how to deal with me to get much use out of me. But I'd always try and fight hard.
I clicked hard with the past I dunno, 6 towns that I was a part of. We wrecked the mafia's $%#!. It was bananas.
That.... really was the greatest amount of fun I've had in the whole of these 12 years. When you connect with your townie teammates and they trust you, and you trust them, and you're not yeeting each other, and you're working as a whole, not just as a leader and followers, to pressure and vote the mafia all over the place... when you by consensus realize you're all townies, and you systematically shove the scums toward the front of the line of people to be executed...
That's magical. When you got your whole team clicking hard, there's nothing better.
I really tried to refocus my style toward being more team-oriented as town this year, and it worked. It can't be about hunting glory by yourself. You gotta bring your town with you and communicate effectively and work hard to build trust and consensus, and thwart attempts to trick you and tear your team of blindfolded buddies apart.
Being on so many teams where I've known the players for 5, 8, 10 years, really helped with that.
The honor of my life has been to know you folks. Among you are my best friends of the past decade, and my wife.
Mafia has been one hell of a game. The community has been one hell of a community.
We've shared some great games, and some bad games, some good times, and some frustrating times. As a community, and as several different communities, we've gone through ups and downs and inactivity and personality conflicts and drama and staff and moderation stresses. We've had glorious times where new players were plenty, and times when our communities went inactive.
For someone who spent much of the past decade working nights, and not having much of a social life during the day, all you folks were there for me to keep me company. To keep me sane. To keep me on my toes. I got so many fond memories and mafia war stories to tell.
I don't know how I'm going to replace this form of social experience.
Life is never static, and recapturing the fun and the good times and continuing on as if nothing has changed isn't always possible. Family, work, and priorities change. It's bittersweet, looking back on these 12 years, knowing the future can't remain the same.
But from the bottom of my heart. This community will always be the greatest thing that ever happened to me. It changed my whole life, several times over.
It turned me from a lonely midnight shift worker in Florida to a proud dad, husband, and this year, citizen of Norway. A really, really great country with some really, really good governance and policies, I can't recommend learning about Norway enough. You got a problem in your country? Norway probably solved that problem. Steal that idea, because jebus, they are one of the best run societies on Earth. Raising my son and baby number 2 here is absolutely the best place I could do so.
It's gonna be another 4 years before I can realistically teach my son Jakob to play video games. It will be much longer before I could teach him to play mafia. I have no idea if this community will still be around that far into the future.
But the wife and I, we're both too busy and too burned out and our priorities have changed, with a second child coming. And that's why we both are hanging up our detective hats and tossing our berettas into the sea.
It's still possible that before the second arrival I may be able to host a game. Or play one. But I can't make any promises.
And with that, and all my love,
I tip my fedora to you all, in the mafia universe community, the totalwar.org mafia community, totalwar center, civilization fanatics forums mafia community, Giraffe boards mafia community, idle thoughts board, straight dope mafia community, TaleWorlds mafia community, MTGSalvation mafia community, Giant in the playground mafia community, Dark Lord Potter mafia community, two plus two mafia community, and probably some other places I've been as a one-shot guest.
A retirement send-off with a mafia universe award recognizing the WIM is a perfect ending to my story.
It's been a pleasure. I'll never forget even one of you.
I have been, and always will be, your wall-of-words posting pizza guy.
The census provides critical data that lawmakers, business owners, teachers, and many others use to provide daily services, products, and support for you and your community. Every year, billions of dollars in federal funding go to hospitals, fire departments, schools, roads, and other sevices based on census data.
The results of the census also determine the number of seats each state will have in the U.S. House of Representatives, and they are used to draw congressional and state legislative districts.
How many representatives your state gets assigned is determined by the census, and whoever makes the rules for the census can affect the outcome. Ideally, this should be done by both parties, fairly, but this is not something you can rely on. So represent yourself, by voting and participating in the democracy itself.
Courts are on the line this year, for the rest of your life, because these are lifetime appointments. If you get partisan judges, for example, democracy weakens until it is broken, because any legal action contesting election rules designed to favor one party will be determined by either a neutral referee or a referee with an interest in there being only one outcome. Which you prefer is determined by how much you care about the rule of law. If you care about voting in a mafia game, you should care a lot more about voting in real life.
You ever have a round of mafia (likely a mash) where town lost because a lot of folks no-showed or voted in a divided fashion, while the mafia all voted united? Of course you have.
The same concept applies to real life.
Unless you vote at all, smartly and in a united fashion, town loses.
Inactivity will never, ever, ever help "town" win. We, the people, are all town, regardless of our policy desires or party affiliation. Sometimes, however, our government officials are not on that same side, the side of the people.
That's all, and about your party affiliation or policy preferences: They are your business. I won't tell you how to vote, only that you should, because an inactive and uninformed electorate can only result in the fall of a Republic. It doesn't get back up again on its own. The rule of law doesn't come back when it is lost. It is far easier to vote now and protect it, than to try to clean up the mess later. As history has shown, sometimes, elections stop mattering at all to the outcome. That happens when the rule of law is lost, always. Every single time.
These are concerns that any citizen should have, left or right, libertarian or statist, Republican, Democrat, or neither. I hope that you share those concerns and that you vote. That's all I will say on the matter. Thank you everyone, it's been a great 12 years of playing mafia.
Real life concerns come first. Baby, job, wife, just as examples.
Get out there and vote, and protect what you have been given by previous generations who literally died to get it. If you don't care, by the time you do, it won't matter.
Every townie has to show up and vote, however their conscience tells them to, or we all lose.
Raskolnikov POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Logic- POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Zwerdjib - no responses
Wisdom POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Dyachei POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Benneh (got a survey response)
Yoloswag POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Fairyjigglypuff (got a survey response)
Thunal33 - no responses
TheGoldenTyranno POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Effen (with Hallia)
Ace Marvel POSTPONE (got a survey response)
DaisyCloud POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Takhitty POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Hollowkatt POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Timsup2nothin POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Montmorency (got a survey response)
Marcher Jovian POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Dolby (got a survey response)
choxorn POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Poison - no responses
Jumpluff POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Adam (got a survey response)
Capage (got a survey response)
Megumin POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Secondhand Revenant POSTPONE (got a survey response)
SuperMonkeyFace (got a survey response)
Ciderhead (got a survey response)
Syn (got a survey response)
Ranmilia POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Duplicitous Weasel (Killjoy) - no responses
Beskar POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Lendunistus OFFER TO HELP, POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Insaner POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Punchythecat (got a survey response)
Jarema POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Ignoramus POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Alice Liddell - no responses
Dawoodle POSTPONE (got a survey response)
Garden Gnome POSTPONE
That's a pretty solid base of support, not only for retaining interest in the game if we do it later and also, for participating in the survey to build your characters. The remaining persons, it's pretty normal not to respond to a ping or check in on a potential game when it's been over a month since you expressed interest. I would expect that I'd get a response from most of the rest if I PM'ed them something.
Okay. That gives me the level of interest in the game being done right that I need to determine that our best course of action is to wait.
I will PM each person on this list, and remind anyone else who expressed interest, if/when this game gets launched in the summer of 2021, when I have the time off necessary to swing this properly.
Idea here is to not pile it all on cohosts, when it's a complicated concept. The bulk of this has to be done by me especially at game start. Others can help, but it's the equivalent of pilots needing air traffic controllers. Someone still needs to fly the plane, it can't all be done by people on the ground.
Thanks so much for the outpouring of support and interest. It's very likely I'll return after the winter.
The game setup and design is mostly done but there's still a couple of days of work to do to finish it up. My back is still injured and when it isn't, I don't have a lot of time. It's more work watching the kiddo than I anticipated. I thought I'd have more hours in the day before I go to sleep to do stuff like hosting. Even a couple hours every other day, surely. It's just not working out that way, and this game setup is too complicated to dump all on my cohosts all at once, and it will take too long to play out that at any point, dumping it on them is not fair. I need to be sure I can be there most of the time all the way to the end.
My options here are totry to host it anyway, and see the game possibly suffer the same fate as Resident Evil, which I couldn't keep hosting. The downside here is if I have to cancel, the game setup is borked and I can't try again later.
Or, I can postpone. Like, for a long while. Probably until the summer of 2021, when the wife is off work again (teacher) and sharing the squirt will be more even, or more mommy-majority of the time.
I know, most folks here won't be able to commit to that. Which means I gotta lose players in the interim and try to find new ones later. And it's also possible my cohosts can't be there next year too.
It's a long time to wait for folks that already waited a long time. The third option is just to pack it in. Don't got time to play, don't got time to host. Time for pizza to ride off into the sunset.
Those are my 3 options.
Feel free to help me decide which I should do. You signed up, you looked forward to this project. How you respond here tells me whether I should try this now, try it later, or stop making a fool of myself trying to host stuff.
More or less. I do have an upper limit on number of players, and I want to know who people are before they play. Too many brand new faces I don't know, and people are likely to bail on the game, s'why it's an invitational. Should go for 2 months, so it's a bit of a commitment.
Right now I just finished moving and sorta pulled a back muscle, but when I have time I'll finish up the pregame prep work and send out an invite/reminder to confirm the "in", to everyone I'd like to see in the starting lineup.
I'll give people several days to respond to the PM/mention in this thread or via PM, and anyone who doesn't respond will be pushed to a reserve player.
The wife and I have bought our first house and we are moving within the next couple weeks.
Internet at new house is expected right away, but lots of personal time is not, necessarily.
Start of game may be slightly delayed into October further, and days will have to go to 48 hours and 100 postcount per day max in order to fit within the calendar year.
We will see. I'll send everyone a reminder PM with regard to the Survey, and request everyone confirm their IN on this signup sheet before game starts, several days in advance. If no confirmation happens, you will not begin the game as a player, you will have to be a sub or sit it out.
I'll also spam some invites to make sure the player list is roughly the same length if lots of people don't confirm.
Estimate start date in about 2 and a half weeks. Perhaps (no firm commitments) late on Friday the 16th (MY time, which is Norwegian time) and we will have a long Day One to get everyone acclimated to the game and the game rules.
I hope to be posting this in the mainchat for y'all to read rather than in the deadchat for y'all to laugh at because I trusted Texas when I shouldn't have.
I hope Texas lived through the night. If he did, maybe we'll be able to settle the IBA thing today.
I was about to call the IBA thing "bull$%#!" there, but I stopped and caught myself.
This game is stressful as $%#! beyond stressful. Let's just get that out of the way up front. Mac's giving up, CCC's sitting there calmly accepting that there's no way they're not getting lynched, Grapefruit's hating everything, I'm panicking and flailing.
And that means I'm part of the problem.
Panicking and flailing because of deadline pressure is not a thing I want to do. Nor is calling people "goddamn idiots." Nor is evoking this kind of response from the entire thread:
#511, from funnier6: "...feels like opportunistic Litten mislynch all over again."
#684, from FTF: "I don't understand such an visceral reaction to me just....posting."
#831, from FTF: "[her] stances come from a place of willful ignorance and it's pretty wolfy"
#845, from 112: "… that post was obviously tongue-in-cheek. Where have I played badly? I don't understand this- seems to entail you know my reads are wrong."
"I know I'm town, and have trouble believing someone can actually take so much issue with what I've done so far."
#865, from nutella: "Evenstar why do you hate fun"
#943, from 112: "I'm having a hard time responding to this because the question honestly feels loaded. You're doing this thing where you point to actions and say that they are scummy without doing the actual work and breaking down what constitutes wolfy behaviour within what I've done."
#1222, from FTFlush: "Her attacks on me were bad and scummy..."
And last, but certainly not least: #799, from FTF.
This is really a great defense and worth reproducing in full, and it's a good 50% of why I'm committing to real change here. @FTFlush, thank you. You didn't need to do this for me, especially not when I was attacking you, but you did anyway. Here's the relevant section of the post:
… Your continued emotional ploys read as fake. We're on Day 1 and you're complaining about spending all your patience already. Seems extremely irrational.
Any discussion of my content is still non-existent. You haven't discussed what I've said, whether you agreed or not, whether you think my motivation is agenda driven, or anything. You've just attributed very bland and generic adjectives to it.
I don't understand why you feel the need to turn this into some sort of personal conflict. I don't expect you to understand how I think, but deliberately misrepresenting me is a different story. Saying that I'm deliberately trying to ruin other people's experience, by virtue of me just posting, is a thinly veiled personal attack. This coming at the foot of "Knowing that they are a genuinely good and insightful player" shows an expectation of play, not actual knowledge of my play. I feel like most of your main arguments are centered on this expectation. It's someone setting a bar at a much different point than the current level and getting mad when the bar isn't met. Like expecting a fish to climb a tree.
You're self admittedly on the defensive end about being called a lurker. You consider this an unfair accusation. Instead of responding to your accusers and calling this an unfair accusation, you've accepted it and instead looked to attribute blame elsewhere. NAGL
Above all this still feels like a pretty gross overreaction to a facet of gameplay that should have been expected for this stage of the competition.
And what's wrong with my spelling and grammar?? What if English isn't my first language?
… Font kept despite my personal distate, because FTF deserves that much from me. Ugh.It is a personal preference and not a reason to hate them. Sorry. Still working on the whole "charity" thing.
I'm probably belabouring this. In fact, I know I'm belabouring this, but there's an important point I need to make here.
If you are getting into pointless slapfights, you are helping the scum win.
If you are yelling at people for "playing badly", you are helping the scum win.
This is a championship game. What's more, this is the wildcard round. Everyone here was selected to continue by a panel of veteran mafia players because they believed that they deserved to play. Nobody here is bad at the game. We just have different playstyles, that's all.
I'd like to thank @Macdougall here as well, because as I was rereading end of day over&over, there was one of their posts that I kept bumping into. This one here:
I am used to games where I am the loudest, most screamingest presence in the thread. I am used to games where I'm in control of the town and I get a big fat say in where the wagons go. I am used to being able to win off presence rather than skill, because people crack when I yell at them rather than being able to actually defend themselves.
Like, Nictics can out-presence me. Lady Lambdadelta can out-presence me. I know there are players out there who are better at this than me. But I have never, ever been in a thread where I was actually one of the least-contributing posters.
And I hate that. I hate that a $%#!ing lot very much.
So what do I do? I try to compensate. I try to kick it into like a billionth gear, because I'm Not Being Loud Enough. I don't want to cooperate with my fellow townies now that they're actually on my level; I want to win the god damn game all by myself.
That's not how to play mafia. Not if you want to win, and certainly not if you want to have fun. My stress levels have honestly been through the roof because of this game; it's literally the most intense mafia experience I have ever had. The second most intense mafia experience I have ever had was in the qualifiers. Yeah. I'm used to week-long dayphases. This is more than a little bit culture-shocky for me, even after G5 giving me some idea of what tournament games are like.
Spoiler alert: I do, in fact, fake emotions in my games. I do it regardless of whether I'm town or scum, because pressure is easy and voting is hard. Making someone crack is just straight-up less difficult than actually scumhunting.
Don't get me wrong, my arguments have some real depth to them. But back on SV, someone like @IBA or @FTFlush, when confronted with an annoyed Star, would quickly back down. (I try not to challenge Nictis like that.)
Here, those habits are $%#!ing me over. I try to get IBA to stop talking about something, and I fill like four pages with it. I try to get FTF to stop $%#!posting; alright, I can claim some success there, but in the process I've majorly pissed off someone I ought to be working with closely as a proper ally. (Yes, I townread FTF now. I've had a lot of time to think about this read overnight, and I just don't see how they can be scum given #2273, #2168, -
FURTHERNORE, IF YOU WERE BEING $#@!ING GENUINE ABOUT IT YOU OUGHT TO HAVE CALLED ME ON IT WHEN I SAID "THANKS", ASSHOLE
NOT AS A DEFENSE TO ME CALLING YOU ON YOUR BULL$#@!
Sorry, I'm just seriously insulted that you think that lame-$%#! defense of a $#@!ing doctor congratulation is going to save your sorry hide.
And I'm also $#@!ing annoyed at myself for walking directly into it. If I hadn't gotten instantly in your face about it as soon as I noticed you wouldn't have a goddamn leg to stand on.
Needless to say, this was a scum ploy. I was embarrassed that I'd been caught in a genuine scumslip, right when I was feeling like I was doing well, and so I covered over it with faked anger. by instead pumping my existing anger at being caught by such a cheap basic trick through the goddamn roof. [Edit: These strikethroughs & edits done while I was going through later putting in the formatting.]
It worked. It's also a play that I'm deeply ashamed of. This may be good tactics, but it's $%#!ty beyond $%#!ty sportsmanship-wise. This is why I hate lurkers so much - they make everyone else in the game have to fight to not get lynched just because they had to go iron their dog. Or mow the lawn. Or play a different game with their girlfriend. They produce the expectation that every moment you have to spend, you should spend on the game - and I hate that. I hate, hate, hate that. I value my time deeply and I never, ever enjoy it when people feel that they can demand it of me.
Sorry, bit of a tangent there. I guess I'm avoiding the apology, because a lot of me still feels like I'm in the right regarding my behavior in this thread. That FTF is scummy, that 112 is just deflecting my argument, that FDA er IBA is godawful at this game and should never have made finals. wildcards. [This last strikeout is a later edit, the other one was there originally.]
But that part of me is wrong. I'm wrong. I am not the leader of this town, and by trying to force it, I'm creating all kinds of problems for everyone. IBA is right to call me out for being scummy as $%#!, even though he's missing the nose on his face. FTF is right that I was just trying to bully him into not $%#!posting, and it makes no sense to build an actual scumread on that. I am playing badly and I'm pissing people off.
And last game, I learned just how important town morale is.
[Edit: Let it at least not be said that I am an idiot. I might be reckless and I might be an asshole, but I value my intelligence highly and I want to actually learn from my mistakes.]
So, [B @IBA: I apologize.[/B] I was wrong to call you a goddamn idiot. I am running way too hot this game. I can't explain my Texas read to you yet, but I promise I will by D4 if we're both still alive. They're not scum.
@FTF: I apologize. I jumped on you over a playstyle thing that I personally hated, and let it massively distort my judgment. It was a transparent attempt to bully you, and it was likely prompted by my own realization that I was out of my damn depth. I was genuinely frustrated with having to keep up with this ridiculous thread - come on, Litten was only alive for like one shared day of the game I was in, and I lynched her, this is not comparable to having to put up with both you and Mac for like six game days - and I tossed all that frustration at you in an attack I had no business making. Yeah, it was an overreaction. In my defense I would in fact not want to spend 12 days in this thread with you badly enough to drop out of the tournament, had you continued $%#!posting the way you were. Your current levels are far more acceptable. (Even if the Times New Roman still grinds my teeth in the back of my mouth GOD)
I am trying to be better than this. @Macdougall, thank you also for this post:
Evenstar has been following every single one of Texas's leads and it's extremely disconcerting.
This FTF wagon is nonsense. Let's go ahead and kill CCC
You continue to be a goddamn idiot
Absolutely uncalled for.
You're right. It was absolutely uncalled for, and having to read and reread this as I went through EOD analysis was... good. Drove the point home.
So, what is this giant shift that you are clearly prognosticating in this post, Evenstar? Can you please get to your point already?
1: I'm being an asshole.
2: I don't want to be an asshole.
3: Champs games where I engage deeply seem to make me an asshole.
4: Mac is right, I have no business trying to townlead when I'm barely more active than Nutella.
[Edit: Not intended to be a diss at Nutella even if it might reveal more of my personal opinion on them than I'd prefer. Leaving it in as a reminder to myself.]
5: FTF is right, I'm letting my gut rule my head and it's a dumbass way to play.
6: Therefore, a really big shift in my playstyle's gonna be needed.
7: But that's a great way to get lynched, and I'm Town.
8: Therefore I'm gonna need to explain the heck out of it so that people aren't going wtf.
And that's why I've changed my avatar. Bet you didn't see that coming, huh?
I want to do more writing here but I'm already getting worried that I'm being super overexplainy and dumb. And that that'll be just as much an excuse to ML me as not posting $%#!all and just doing it.
*rubs her face*
Mafia is like this. It makes you second-guess yourself. And everybody else. Wine wine wine. Whining about wine. And now another part of me is asking "are you really that upset about this, or are you just appealing for sympathy from the thread?"
… Yeah, probably mostly a sympathy appeal.
Gonna leave it. Considered cutting it for being manipulative, but y'all deserve to see how my brain actually functions in this kind of situation. I do emotional appeals almost out of habit - because my emotional appeals are never fake emotion entirely, never constructed out of thin air - they're just exaggerations of feelings I'm really having. Yeah, I'm frustrated. Yeah, I don't like my own play. Yeah, I'm not super enthusiastic about having ML'd CCC either. I take responsibility for that despite being on Adrian at dayend 'cause I convinced whatsherface uhhh funnier6? Okay, whatshisface I guess then, sorry, must have mixed them up with Nutella - to vote for them. #1628's my vote, #1637 is Funnier's. Which made CCC into a real lynch candidate from a 2-vote wagon, and even when I tried to get people to pivot off it 'cause of the momentum issues, having that static funnier6 vote in the wrong place made it far less likely that we could CFD. I thought CCC was scum, I was wrong, I $%#!ed up. And it's 'cause I was tunneling on $%#!ing Mac instead of actually paying attention to the rest of the thread. Look at my last readlist, post #1516. 6 stale reads out of 17, more than 1/3 the game. I should be doing better than this.
In fact, I'm ashamed to admit that I never actually managed to take a detailed look at CCC's ISO before she was lynched. It just didn't happen. No excuse, I get it. Still. That says something about how badly I'm playing. [Edit: Better phrasing: "I have no excuses for my terrible play in this regard, and I want to do better."]
IBA might be more right than I'm willing to admit, tbh.
What was I even talking about.
I've gone from… *scrolls up* yeah $%#! that I'm not reading all of that [Edit: awww poor past me why did I even say this w/e leaving it in]
I am trying to actually get to my point.
Condense the condensement. This is v doable. I just gotta
I need to shift out of that register. That is Jinx register. I need to be using Lioncourt register.
And I also need to explain to the nice townies what the hellwhat on earth I mean by that what I mean by "Jinx" and "Lioncourt" registers.
You may have noticed that my avatar has changed. I mean, you have hopefully noticed by now,
[Edit: I was going to finish this line with "I've only mentioned it like three times already", but decided to cut my losses while I was ahead.]
Not Jinx register. Stop motormouthing and start composing.
*takes a deep breath*
When trying to change one's identity, making an obvious external change in one's appearance is a good way to make a final break with the part of yourself you wish to leave behind. How can this be done on a forum? By changing one's avatar. Ideally one's screenname as well, but we're all Evenstar anyway so it seems ridiculous to attempt that. Not to mention overly confusing for other thread participants.
Normally, we would never do something like this in the middle of an active game. It's confusing, it's unusual, it's anti-town. Moreover, it's attention-grabbing in a bad way, and while we love to bask in positive attention we hate to be reviled. Evenstars are vain creatures.
I say "we" because we're an author and a roleplayer, alongside being a mafia player. We have a lot of experience with putting on other faces, and indeed have somewhat of a collection of them so that we can put on the ones that suit our purposes. Eva, Lioncourt, Liath, Jinx, Audrey, Kumi. The others aren't relevant right now: what you need to know to understand what I'm doing is that my previous avatar was Jinx's necklace - a rune-engraved bullet threaded onto a chain.
For those of you who've played League of Legends: Yes, that Jinx. The maniac with a giant gatling gun and a rocket launcher. She's the incarnation of our ADD, and when we put on her face we remove all the filters normally between our brain and our mouth.
In most mafia games, this is advantageous. It means we come across as startlingly sincere - because we are - and lends a frantic emotional energy that can quickly sweep others up into our wake. Witness how we bullied and blustered our way to this wildcard slot.
My new avatar is Lioncourt's face. Isabella Katerina Lioncourt, vampire nobility. She is refined, she is poised, she is elegant. She is, above all the former, composed. She never uses foul language, controls her tongue and her temper, and approaches things with a surgeon's eye, seeking disease that it may be cut out. She's the skillset that we need right now, far more than another blustering townleader.
Moreover, I never intended to join this site with Jinx as my avatar. I replaced at the last minute, and simply used the first avatar-adjacent picture that seemed appropriate for Mafia and legible at this forum's reduced size. It wasn't a conscious decision to inhabit her from there; it was simply naturally enforced by my own appearance on the forum.
Do I contradict myself? "I play as Jinx deliberately, but chose her avatar at random?" Why, yes, I suppose I do. But I will note that I might have changed my avatar much earlier than this. I might have adopted a different play-style at any time. I simply saw no need to, because what I was doing was working.
Was the avatar ideal? No. But I liked it. It was me enough. And so I kept it - and stayed in Jinx mode - for the entirety of G5.
But now we're in a situation which requires insight and patience far more than sincerity and bluster. Where we have a half-dozen "Town Leaders", and nothing is getting done.
So I'll change. Because I can change this radically, and others can't.
Jinx would like me to inform you that we're, quote, "kind of hax.", unquote.
*smiles.* [Edit: *coughs*]
So. Now that all the explanations, apologies and acknowledgements are over, I believe I have an actual case to make.
@Macdougall: Over-emotional and potentially-biased as I might have been, I genuinely believe that I've seen real scumslips from you. I am going to go back. I am going to redo my ISO. I am going to show the thread why you are a scum.
I do apologize, however, for being willing to CFD you at the end of last Day. That was uncouth of me, and against my own implied promise in #1472, much less my better judgement even then, as #2085 shows.
(It is at this point that I realized that I had not put in any postnum tags whatsoever here, and went back and inserted them all. [Edit: Many of them, but not enough to prevent me from leaving this passive-aggressive note to myself.] From rereading my own huge rambling wall, I realized I'd missed something, but now I've forgotten what it was…
*pinches the bridge of her nose*
… scroll up again and find it, you are supposed to be taking your time.
… This is all a tremendous pile of poorly-composed… scraps.
What on earth are you doing, Jinx.
[Edit: Lioncourt, do not go back and edit the document. You already ended up doing that in the future, so don't do it now. Besides, it'd defeat the whole point of Jinxmode.]
There was a particular thing you wanted to address. Was it the admission that you fake emotions? You did in fact clarify that later, that you don't fake emotions, you just choose which emotions to express. That, in short, you're an actress, at least over text. So no, that was not it. [Edit: I ended up putting this in anyway. Lioncourt being Lioncourt.]
You're mischaracterizing your past play on SV? Maybe that's the case, I honestly don't recall what we were like in our last game on SV. Less Jinx, I think. But still, it's close enough to the truth.
Yes, crowd, you're listening to my internal monologue still. Just because I'm Lioncourt doesn't mean I can't show you my reasoning. I want to be scrupulously honest with you, even if I am suppressing my emotions more and not always saying the first thing that leaps to my tongue. Because frankly, we say a lot of stupid things when we do that. Jinx simply doesn't care.
Are we all agreed that we can now actually make a case against MacDougall?
Oh, wait, Jinx has another thing. What is it, Jinx?
Ah. We haven't emphasized morale enough. It ought to be its own section.
… considered and denied. We have already filled I don't know how much space here with tangents. We addressed morale. We don't need to come back to it just to make a rhetorical point. The mere fact that we're bothering to do this at all makes our point for us.
Now can we ISO MacDougall?
[The following post was originally of one piece with this astonishingly long ramble, but as I realized that it, too, would be considerably lengthy, I decided to split the post here.]
[Edit: And then I fell off my bike. See the end of this section; you're getting the whole damn thing in one lump most likely.]
I still have not seen counter-arguments or defenses to my posts #1458 and #1460. It's possible I may have missed them. Please link me your responses if you have already written them; at a casual skim of your ISO, they do not appear to exist. Merely arguing that I'm reading too much in is not a proper defense; refute my arguments regarding HATER, Funnier6, and your lack of follow-through, please. Explain why I have a mistaken impression, as you did with your defense of your actions regarding Adrian.
For convenience's sake, I will list these points individually, that you might respond to them without having to reference the linked posts:
1: Why did you change your opinion on Hater between posts #422 and #440? I find FTF's argument dubious at best; dropping of the gimmick was NAI or even towny IMO, rather than scummy as you seem to feel. Was HATER's Choxorn scumread really that influential to you?
2: Why did you suddenly drop all pressure on Funnier6 in post #450?
[At this point I was hauled off for supper & a bike ride afterwards, and biked directly into a bollard because I am still a novice on a bike. I scraped up my knee pretty bad, have a nice bruise on my shoulder, and was pretty shaken up. I'd post pics if that wasn't a great way to get the game reranded. (I've learned from whoever did that's fail back in G5.)
I am currently trying to reassemble the case I had in my brain before lunch supper as of the time of this writing - 7:06 local, an hour before daystart, but the pain in my knee and shoulder is… making it difficult to concentrate.
I think at this point the best thing I can do is get all the fancy formatting in this into an actual post on Mafiauniverse. I can probably do that with my brain in its current state, that is just mechanical. Ow.]
[Having gotten all probably most of the formatting that was in this in Onenote into an actual forum post, and made a number of edits along the way purely out of habit - marked by "Edit:" with a strikethrough of content from earlier, because radical honesty - it is now 7:40, 20 minutes to daystart.
Spoilered whining about bike incident, nobody wants to read this and it's all just AtE to get people to sympathize anyway. Including for spew reasons only:
I feel like crap; my knee still hurts, and now my back seems to have decided to join in, I must have wrenched something. At least my shoulder is doing better. Hate to think what this would be like if I hadn't taken Tylenol...
Anyway, this is beside the point. I wanted to do different stuff, more stuff, read 112, read more of MacDougall, in general be better at this, but $%#!ing bi my bicycle incident has rather put a damper on things. It's now 7:44. My girlfriend is in the middle of a move elsewhere and I feel wretched.
*takes a deep breath*
Where did I leave that 112 ISOdid not find on search, I have no idea where it went, jinx register today is being cheery and lovely.and in any case I'm in no fit state to continue it anyway which is why I didn'tpick up from the mac read. all of this is jinx register
seem to have knocked some of my inhibitions out again, lovely. :/
*takes a deep breath again*
I'm still not in a good state to do heavy analysis work, even though that's what I was intending to start solely focusing on from this point forwards. I don't think it's a good idea for me to continue doing Mac ISO rn given the accusation of bias and my brain not being in good shape to catch it jinx register
I don't think it's a good idea for me to continue my isolated read of MacDougall, because I've been accused of bias, and I'm currently not in a competent mental state to notice and correct for my own biases. Doing isolation reads of other posters is likely vulnerable to the same issues. What can I do to contribute to the thread without yelling at people causing disruptions and hurting morale?
... vote analysis?
That's relatively easy and fast, I can do a basic vote analysis in the six minutes jinx register, get it together Eva.
Vote analysis would work. It's relatively analysis-light, and can be done in minimal time - such as the five minutes I currently have remaining before daystart.
I need to select a proper target for this to be useful, however. I should not target MacDougall, again due to potential accusations of bias. Who do I have as a relative neutralread, have few opinions on? someone I haven't really looked at Who haven't I examined closely yet?
... Choxorn. Choxorn ended up in the middle of the pack was disconcertingly suspicious given my read of them that I felt they were town. So. 1 minute before, let's do this fast.
... okay, WAY too many votes for them to analyze. Wait, I have the wrong direction... Has only voted for Vanity and Nutella. Huh.
I have no idea what that means. Beyond that he's being really surprisingly quiet.
... whatever let's just post this thing
This wallpost is pizza approved. Someone should ping me literally every time it is posted, and it should never be posted without a spoiler tag.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy1598805245
Not sure who anyone is? Wookiepedia is your friend, so is google, or you can ask me, because Bane Anded and this version of Nomi Sunrider are based on previous games' winners. Nomi Sunrider is basically a female Jedi Grandmaster who is a cross between Mace Windu and Yoda, when it comes to personality and force powers, and the sole town survivor of the first game (me). Bane Anded is a Dark Jedi who overthrew two orders of the Sith and the Jedi Council and repelled an assault on Coruscant through his knowledge of the Dark Side. He is the sole survivor of the second game (Chaotix).
Eventually people are gonna go, okay, the person who was attacked didn't use the same defense I did. So that's not me, at least.
And saying which passive abilities you're using and whatnot, there will be restrictions against saying that out loud.
Every day I'll remind people in bold red text what is permissible to discuss from your role PM or night action selections or questions.
So far, rules designed to be anti-spreadsheet solve and anti-flavorgaming are as follows:
1. No one is allowed to discuss the questionnaire or the answers given.
2. No one knows what their Jedi's name is, and you won't be told if you were attacked at night and survived. So if you see Ji-gon Bimp get attacked, and that was you, you won't know you're lock clear, and everyone else can claim the same thing and you can't even prove they're wrong-guessing or lying.
3. Saber color won't be helpful info at all. You survive, and probably, the saber that was used gets broken in half. There, you won't ever see that saber again, so the next time this person appears, they have a different color. No solve by spreadsheet possible here.
4. You can't tell people anything about what passive defenses you have or which ones you're using, ever, period.
5. You're restricted to saying "I vigged" or "I protected" etc, and you can say if it was a strong or weak type of action, in Mafia Terminology ways, but you can't say the name of the power you specifically used. There will be multiple kinds of each.
There is a LOT of "being in the dark" here, flavor-wise.
There will be mechanical roles and powers in the game to help you fight. The flavor is there for enjoyment, and it may be possible to glean something from it, but no one is guaranteed to remain loyal to any side, and your main method of finding and destroying your enemies is to look inside the thread for votes, arguments, claimed actions, and use your gut and your head to solve.
Not just flavor gaming, and not solve by saber color, and not solve by character name.
You might get somewhere besides nowhere with it, sure. Eventually. By then, every side will have plenty of compensation for the strengths and weaknesses of having a known identity.
It's all been factored in by a game host that's been doing it for over a decade, particularly with complicated games and flavor and solvy folks who like to game the flavor.
I feel confident the end product will be playable and balanced. Not guaranteed, and the word "experimental" is plastered all over it, plus "non-competitive" for the peeps worried about $TAT$ over fun.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy1598871577
The reason being, like with the lightsaber stuff, I don't want there to be too much info and a spreadsheet solve.
I'd recommend being very, very, very, very, very careful with revealing game-relevant flavor information! This is MU and people will crunch every available scrap of info and spreadsheet the playerlist. I can scarcely imagine not doing so. Make liberal use of false identities for flavor purposes, perhaps!
I'm already way ahead of things.
The lightsaber color and identities of the Jedi/Sith by name will be either useless data due to the above precaution, or slow to be useful information.
Plus, with alignments capable of changing, a brute force solve will eventually be useful on limited information, but far from game breaking.
If you must hunt sith and then also be ready for your circle of Jedi to contain a brand new Sith, welp. Let the spreadsheeting commence.
I just don't want the game to spew like 12 people townie in the first half of the game. That's too much. Hence the ambiguity.
Pretty sure I wanna go with you getting a picture of your character, a lightsaber color assigned to you (for real when you die), the names and descriptions of all the force powers and saber abilities you know, your alignment and win conditions, and a brief description of your personality and character build as I understand it. A gender and a species possibly.
Stuff you won't know about your character: your Jedi's name.
It will be stuff you can figure out by visibly appearing in the writeup flavor by attacking someone or being attacked by someone.
Or, when you die, everyone will know your name.
The reason being, like with the lightsaber stuff, I don't want there to be too much info and a spreadsheet solve.
If Jedi Master Abi-Bon Cenobi gets attack by Darth Example, survives to tell the tale, I don't want it known to all that the player who controls Abi-Bon Cenobi is probably not Darth Example.
Or that the player with the pink lightsaber that got attacked by a Sith is good. For example.
At least, not so simply. You will piece it together, but more slowly.
I want it to be so that anyone can claim to be Cenobi, and no one can counterclaim and know with absolute certainty the person is lying on purpose. At least, until they have enough evidence to piece it together via a solving method that is legit.
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