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  1. #743

    Thread: Hydra Event 2021!

    by Boquise
    Replies
    770
    Views
    19,131

    Sticky: Confirming tbh

    Confirming tbh
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    MafiaManiac Starship Mafia Signups

    Hi there. My smol community is on the road to get a revival after almost getting extinct. Thanks to @Askthepizzaguy we have got a shot to get back on track. However we are few. So we need your help tbh!

    MM is a sorta old community that has a long tradition of players and games that love funny flavour and funny roles. Back in our haydays we had MVP awards for every game and also a Hall of Fame. We have fostered several excellent players despite always being comparably small to other communities. Just take a look at our Mafia Championship CV. The best way to describe the MM community is that it is a close-knit family however.

    This is the game we currently have in sign-ups.
    https://mafiamaniac.jcink.net/index....dpost&p=243465

    It is an 11er with power roles (and 4 vanilla town).

    How is it like playing a game on MM?

    • Games are slower due to people not posting as much. There is no post restriction, but only a few people post "a lot" (and on MU standards, that is not a high poster). Thus MM is the perfect place for people who enjoy chill low-posting games. We have had issues with activity (which is why I am here trying to recruit new blood).
    • It is a friendly community. I don't remember the last time someone got banned. I think the last perma ban happened before I joined the site even (and I joined in 2013). There have been a handful of games that got heated, but not on a level that resulted in a ban. Thus, MM games are nice to play if you enjoy friendly games with almost no toxicity.
    • We put emphasis on PRs. Previously, every person was a PR. We are walking back on that with this game however for balance reason but also for accessibility. The idea was that people feel more invested when they have a role. Due to this, a handful of us are not used to this style of mafia that everyone in the world but us have played. But we are learning. We have called our version of mafia as "Den mafia". Here is a guide to it. Aside from the first item, everything else is pretty much still in play.
    • Game thread does not close during night. This means that every alive player can post during Night in the thread. This is workable due to the low-intensivity of our games.
    • We really like stories. Flavour is an important part of our games and is directly tied with what has happened during the day/night (with no TMI). Every role is a character with a brief backstory. Thus, if you like playing mafia games with story, this is a good site for you. Due to our low amount of games, you will easily be able to host a game with your flavour here too if we get more people to play.
    • Our domain died so we are on jcink and pray to God that we will not perish. Jcink is kinda wonky to play on, but it works. Here is a guide to make the site a little better tbh


    So to sum this up. If you enjoy playing lowkey games with lowkey people, this is something for you. If you want to help revive a renowned mafia site and maybe even make a name of yourself in forum mafia, this is also a site for you tbh. If you enjoy flavour and/or PR games, this is a site for you tbqh.

    Hope to see future Maniacs!

    Thanks for reading tbqh!

    //Boq
  3. #266

    Thread: Battle Royale

    by Boquise
    Replies
    273
    Views
    6,762

    Strategy I will never trust in the frog again tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog (#265)
    Up 2

    Trust in the Frog!
    I will never trust in the frog again tbh
  4. #259

    Thread: Battle Royale

    by Boquise
    Replies
    273
    Views
    6,762

    Strategy Wow I am a minesweeper pro tbh :wowee:

    Wow I am a minesweeper pro tbh
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    Completed A triumph tbh! Congrats tbh! Please let me...

    A triumph tbh!

    Congrats tbh!

    Please let me leave the pocket now i promise i will be good
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    Completed Nice job

    Nice job
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    Completed https://i.imgur.com/lA6BGVd.jpg Well deserved...



    Well deserved tbh
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    Completed congrats tbh!

    congrats tbh!
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    Completed nice congrats tbh

    nice congrats tbh
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    Completed ty tbh if that happens tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#10749)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#10740)
    REVEAL (PART FOUR)

    In fifth place with 48 points is...







    @Boquise (MafiaManiac)!
    What!
    Big rob
    Still, gg Boq you are the memeiest look forward to see you in s10!!!
    ty tbh
    if that happens tbh
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    Completed nice tbh thanks for the votes tbh

    nice tbh
    thanks for the votes tbh
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    Completed Grats Gorf tbh

    Grats Gorf tbh
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    Completed obligatory frozen Lissa meme

    obligatory frozen Lissa meme
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    Completed grats wiml tbh

    grats wiml tbh
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    Completed Pretty decisive victory tbh nice

    Pretty decisive victory tbh
    nice
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    Completed It is the final showdown tbh, cat vs cat tbh

    It is the final showdown tbh, cat vs cat tbh
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    Completed hype tbh

    hype tbh
  18. #246

    Thread: Battle Royale

    by Boquise
    Replies
    273
    Views
    6,762

    Strategy hmm where do you get these updates tbh ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog (#244)
    Update:

    Top right corner is taken
    Bottom right corner is taken

    Someone take C3, G3, C7, G7
    hmm where do you get these updates tbh


    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#245)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#241)
    Nutella no!
    sadge
    i will fite for u tbh
  19. #241

    Thread: Battle Royale

    by Boquise
    Replies
    273
    Views
    6,762

    Strategy Nutella no!

    Nutella no!
  20. Och tunnlar på och smeker, med motståndet vi leker

    Quote Originally Posted by Viggorous (#29)
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#14)
    discord meta is out, slack meta is in
    Vi sitter här i venten och spelar lite werewolf.
    Och tunnlar på och smeker, med motståndet vi leker
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    Sticky: https://c.tenor.com/l4znydhBmqIAAAAM/jim-carrey-lo...

    Quote Originally Posted by c4e5g3d5 (#436)
    I know I'm late as $%#! but

    Nominating Everyone vote Boq for Funniest Moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#708)
    ##Vote Boquise

    everyone vote boq

    either we look like morons or we get the golden sweep

    lets go
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#711)
    lissa, vandy, get on boq

    now this is podracing
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#716)
    Funkier Phases Mountainous Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    6 Boquise iaafr (89), nutella (111), Raskolnikov (98), c4e5g3d5 (65), Fatmo (73), Visorslash (103)
    1 Raskolnikov Boquise (42)
    1 nutella Lissa (74)
    1 iaafr Vandyfan402 (46)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Thursday, September 9th, 2021. There are 1631232060000 remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#722)
    ##Vote Boquise

    I guess for the meme?
    Quote Originally Posted by c4e5g3d5 (#726)
    If he flips red it's hilarious
    If he flips green it's hilarious
    No bad outcomes
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#729)
    ##Vote Boquise
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#734)
    Funkier Phases Mountainous Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    8 Boquise iaafr (90), nutella (113), Raskolnikov (100), c4e5g3d5 (66), Fatmo (74), Visorslash (106), Vandyfan402 (49), Lissa (78)
    1 Raskolnikov Boquise (42)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Thursday, September 9th, 2021. There are 1631232060000 remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#736)
    wtf is this game
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#738)
    i bet dvc is having fun at our expense regardless of whether we are right or wrong lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#739)
    Guys, if Boq flips mafia, I think his partner might be in the vote
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#749)
    guys

    we did it


    we sorted by postcount
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#764)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#788)
    Lmao sup

    Vote yourself for stats tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#790)
    Lol 2 min gor my yeet and I am out drinking
    Quote Originally Posted by iaafr (#803)
    boq is town get off
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#805)
    Funkier Phases Mountainous Invitational Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    8 Boquise iaafr (103), nutella (118), Raskolnikov (107), c4e5g3d5 (73), Fatmo (80), Vandyfan402 (59), Lissa (85), Visorslash (114)
    1 nutella Boquise (46)


    View Vote History

    Boquise was eliminated. They were:

    Character image

    be happy, Mafia Goon
    Role PM for Funkier Phases Mountainous Invitational

    Character image

    You are be happy, Mafia Goon. You win when you overpower the Town and are the only evil faction remaining.

    As Mafia, you have access to the Factional Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless protected. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    If no Mafia submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the living non-Mafia players.


    Day 1 has ended.

    Day 1 ended at 8:00 PM EDT on Thursday, September 9th, 2021.
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    Completed people are so nice T_T idk how to respond but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#10675)
    I vote for Boq to play S10!

    Maffia Sverige needs a new rep so come join us, we'll embrace you with open arms!
    people are so nice T_T

    idk how to respond but to spam the thank button.

    Thanks guys
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    Completed ofc i broke the spoiler... ...

    ofc i broke the spoiler...














































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    Completed Some people really enjoyed my custom made memes...

    Some people really enjoyed my custom made memes this game so I am going to post a compilation tbh
    first non ygo cards

    [spoiler]




















  25. #219

    Thread: Battle Royale

    by Boquise
    Replies
    273
    Views
    6,762

    Strategy wow nutella goat tbh popcorn kernel master ...

    wow nutella goat tbh

    popcorn kernel master


    also I see that I am barely staying alive three challenges in a row
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    Completed I was 3rd party!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas (#10673)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10671)
    and have still won all my wolf games
    Throne Mash didn't happen
    I was 3rd party!!!
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    Completed https://i.imgur.com/qMV79BR.jpg First, I want...



    First, I want to say that I am not mad at anyone but myself.
    Secondly, I want to thank you all for all the kind words, encouragements and hype, in both spec and in the thread. I cant process it or feel that way, but I appreciate it and it makes me smile.

    I am going to address several things that I want to talk about. Some of it is emotion. Emotion I locked outside of the thread after my crash and burn D1-D2. I am going to end this essay (tho lol it wont look as funny as my town case and stuff) with my final meme of Mafia Championship as a player, considering this is the last one I will ever play (due to not having a site to rep anymore, and because I have played so many times so I should step down in favour of others). It is a bittersweet feeling because I love the championship and I love playing to entertain.

    Before all that, I will reveal my two last ygo cards, made for either loss or win (at least vote correctly).

    Win




    Loss



    In Sweden, we usually give a box of chocolate as a gift when being guests. There are some tasty chocolates in it but also a few disgusting ones. These spoiler boxes mirror this.

    Section 1 - Self-Meta AtE the game

    To be clear, I don't dislike them per se, but I think there is excessive self-meta and AtE.

    Let us start with self-meta.
    The issue with self-meta is that it makes the game go stuck. If someone wolf reads you, you can obviously say that you wouldnt do that as scum. That is normal. But what I dislike with self-meta is when the defender go ballistic with it. Like, you are not allowed to have that read because that goes against my self-meta and if you dont do as I say I will wolf read you.

    Or, you make a case on somebody and someone else quotes portions of it and say "nah X doesnt do that as a wolf".

    This stumps solving. Because even if you are right, you are making the other person unable to play to their fullest. Even in a wrong solve, a player can appear both townie/scum. These things create discussion topics and well... it is a part of the game.

    AtE. I think regular AtE is alright. Like, being frustrated in the thread. Calling out to the void. I dislike AtE when it is excessive. I dislike feeling uncomfortable pushing people because they will scream and cry and stuff. I know thats on me, because emotional play is legit. I just really dont vibe with it. It is a playstyle I tend to avoid and that I dont enjoy interacting with. And it is also hard to counter, as both alignments. Like if I ignore this I might hurt that person and that sucks. Bleh.

    Why I think self-meta and AtE have a place is because they are a part of the three bases of rhetoric: ethos and pathos. But doing em in excess is just not fun for anyone. Like my only option to combat it is to just ignore the AtE and push anyway.

    Emotionally, I do think it is worse when wolves AtE (at least when it is fake). I understand why some wolves feel like they have to though. But to me it feels manipulative in bad way and that has more to do with my own irl experiences, and like I said, it depends on the AtE.

    I am happy that I have not felt any need to do excessive AtE as a wolf on MU and have still won all my wolf games (except one turbo smh).



    My D5 strategy and how it fell into pieces
    During around mid-D5 I got to Kat/Alexa and devised a plan. It was at an all-time low in the thread where everyone were just $%#!ting on the game and spec chat. And when I got to Kat/Alexa, I felt a sense of tranquility. Like. Everything made sense. Thunal and Wiml were obviously town. It is Kat and Alexa. I felt at peace. I "knew" that Alexa was a wolf, and was pretty sure Kat was too. Due to how they interacted with each other, like how Kat really did not want to interact with suggestions to shoot Alexa and how Alexa began AtEing about that. I also felt like at least one of the AtEs must be written because of being under a sort of obligation to write it.

    I had earlier scum cased Kat for Vandy TMI and was walking back to it. And when Katze wrote, after I said I wanted to vote, that they will vote before I did and vote Thunal, I felt even more sure that Alexa and Kat were scum together.

    Still, I wasnt 100% sure on Katze as scum. I think they wrote some townie sounding posts still. But I wanted that Alexa vote. I waited for Wiml to write a post. To stall time, because I was so scared of doing it. I was hesitating yet again and that annoyed me. I took deep breaths after Wiml posted. And was about to vote, when I saw the thread update and Katze had voted. I was so annoyed at myself.

    But here I hatched a plan. One of Thunal/Katze is scum and I was really sure Alexa was scum too and I really wanted to avoid a tinfoil F3. I wanted to nail down both scum in one phase. So I decide to just observe what Alexa does, who she is pushing and who she isn't. I feel pretty confident on Alexa/Katze (though my mind keeps looping about how I wanted to vote Alexa so I am also not that happy anymore even though I am trying to wim it up). I even telegraph it through mafia host.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#9636)
    Retrospective Day 1 Votecount as of Post #11

    Post #11 was originally posted at 6:00 PM EDT on Thursday, October 7th, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    1 katze Thunal33 (2)
    14 Not voting Vandyfan402 (0), Wisdom (0), Soneji (0), JohnCarter (1), vanity. (1), The Sun Fan (0), Holyflare (0), Hornet (0), Gorf (0), Wiml (0), alexa (0), Boquise (0), Pilica (0), katze (1)

    View Vote History

    Requested by Boquise.
    Retrospective Day 1 Votecount as of Post #238

    Post #238 was originally posted at 7:06 PM EDT on Thursday, October 7th, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 alexa Holyflare (5), vanity. (27), JohnCarter (22), Wiml (23), katze (19)
    1 katze Thunal33 (21)
    1 vanity. Boquise (33)
    1 Hornet The Sun Fan (22)
    7 Not voting Vandyfan402 (24), Wisdom (10), Soneji (0), Hornet (0), Gorf (0), alexa (25), Pilica (0)

    View Vote History

    Requested by Boquise.
    Retrospective Day 2 Votecount as of Post #3204

    Post #3204 was originally posted at 12:09 PM EDT on Monday, October 11th, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 The Sun Fan Holyflare (66), alexa (53), JohnCarter (48), Wiml (33), Thunal33 (52)
    3 Thunal33 katze (49), Soneji (22), Boquise (51)
    2 Wiml vanity. (49), Pilica (30)
    1 Pilica The Sun Fan (60)
    2 Not voting Hornet (14), Gorf (63)

    View Vote History

    Requested by Boquise.
    Look at the first letter of the top voter's name in each vc smh.

    What went wrong then?

    Well for one, I did not hold my cards close enough since I was so excited about having a 95% wolf read. But still I was passive, and when looking at how everyonme else was posting, I felt that Alexa and Thunal were teamed more than Katze which made me have to change my case post's contents since I was originally going to write about Katze, not Thunal. I did a reaction test as well, and both swept in to defend each other. I thought that wolves would be aiming for a F5 right here and then. And like, I am usually wrong on things and Katze "sounds" townie so like yeah this is the way.

    I feel like this strategy was not too dumb or anything. I did consider the worlds where Alexa votes her partner for wifom and cred. But the solid pairing with Thunal/Alexa made me think that was the likelier scenario. Hats off to them. I really regret not voting. Really regret not being able to be assertive.

    And idk, instead of trying to be fancy, I should have just voted Katze right away and deal with an annoying F3.


    My final showdown

    So for the first 30-45 minutes of the Night, I still think it is Alexa, then slightly flip to Thunal. I am laughing at how Katze fooled me and that I lost the wifom game to Alexa. I laughed because in a cosmic sense it is funny that this is how my championship saga ends. It also hurt a lot, but I will go into that later.

    As sod came closer, I wasnt too sure on Alexa being the one. Because "why would she play like that then?" This is btw a stupid line of thought, because had she voted Thunal, there is always the risk that I or someone else votes Katze in return. Like my strat was to vote where she did not. Yet thats how I thought. I enter sod and have a pretty open mind. I want to start solving right away and not interact with the thread too much. I expect the two of them to not believe anything I would be saying, but this was about me getting things right. I wanted that correct vote.

    I ask Alexa about the wifom comment (since it worried me) and I get a bit annoyed at her first ignoring answering my question.
    I ask Thunal about the lying.

    Either way, Alexa wants to give me time and Thunal kinda starts shading me quickly. I get frustrated again at Alexa for wanting me to towncase myself instead of solving. I am still leaning to Thunal wolf still though.

    There were moments I walked back on Alexa being town. That is those times I say “the townie in you”. I did go “hmm” when Alexa got mad at me just joking about her being scum, right before when I slept tho. Either way, I don’t think I could have pulled this over no matter how I played due to my misplay in F5.

    I am sad that I was yeeted after I went to bed. I wanted to look at other stuff, like I planned to read both Thunal and Alexa through sections of the whole game. I think 8 times out of 10 I still think it is Thunal, but since I was beginning to walk back, it would have been nice to just vote correctly.

    Anyway. Despite all that, another reason I did not vote early during this day was because I did not want the game to end. Selfish yeah but like. It was my last Champ Day. I wanted to make the most of it and I had fun most of the time (leaving the despair for the previous night and post game). It was fun town casing myself and stuff.


    We don't serve redemption arcs in this timeline, sir
    This contains emotion. Like, meandering emotions where I am a whiny little brat. It is an explosion of all the emotions I held in during this game. I need to get it out of my system. It is very cringe.


    I do not know where to start. I really do not. In a way I feel sad, in a way I feel just… nothing? I did keep my larger emotions at bay after D1. Such as how I felt after Gorf yeet, Pilica yeet and Katze yeet.

    It was not really the plan to play this season. Season 7 had been horrible, and I am just not saying that “cos”. It was horrible. I wanted to quit playing mafia after G9. But I love champs. And so I did my fifth season.

    The one thing I have hated the most with my town play is my inability to be assertive with reads. I don’t form reads that are “strong” in the sense that I can explain them logically. They are mostly vibes and poe. So it is hard to be assertive. And it was my goal to change that.

    I have been aware of Champs since S1 when my home community sent people off. It looked grand and scary and I wanted in. Though at that time I did not feel ready. Coolkid went S2 and won the whole shebang. I loved it. And I wanted it too (he was sorta my rival sometimes). I subbed in S3 and did horribly, then I just kept going. It became my dream to win it. S8 was my final chance imo. And I blew it myself.

    I have been the misyeet in a champ F3 three times now. People meme about me being cursed and that that's how F3s are supposed to be when I am town. I get those are jokes, and I am not offended, but it hurts. It stings.

    So we have the S8 Finale. And it starts like my other high stakes games that I remember, and I kinda PTSD out of frustration on myself. I recover. I am in F5, and I suddenly have the solve. I feel tranquil. Everything is in my hands. All I need to do is vote. And I don’t do it in time. Because I am not assertive. I closed my eyes and breathed. I knew I was correct, yet I didn't do it. I completely single-handedly destroyed my own dream by failing to do what I had decided that I needed to do. Be assertive.

    And not only that. On D4 I was so close to voting both Katze and Alexa due to a feeling I had with their posts (Katze’s deflation; Alexa’s attempt to bury me), I did not. And I felt so angry and frustrated at myself during that Night. I could hardly sleep. Then starting D5 and it is soldiering on like usual. I walked back from my eod4 feels and tried to just… play without showing how much everything sucked. And then I do the exact same thing in eod5. Fail at being assertive. This time it is on Wiml, and well he was town so ultimately that’s good, but I am still frustrated. Didn’t I learn anything from eod4??? I hardly slept that night as well. Between D4 and D5 I think I had slept for like 2-3 hours for each irl night. I dont want to go into what exactly I felt, but I felt a lot. Still, it was not over. Just play and vibe. I had a fun time in the thread and I DID like the challenge despite being so angry at myself that I didnt know what to do.

    And then it is F5. And I have the ball, I have an open goal, and I miss.

    When I saw Katze’s flip I was silent for a few seconds. Blinking. Then I laughed. First I laughed in disbelief, then in resignation. I had been outplayed, that is cool. Then I remembered eod4. Then it sank in. I will die in F3. Again. I will lose. Again. Had I only voted like I was meant to, this would not have happened. The whole loss is on me. And in a cosmic sense it is hilarious. Like of course this is how my championship career ends. Of course this is how the whole thing ends. I’m just a meme. Why did I even try. I went to bed and closed my eyes but couldn’t sleep. My brain is a nasty thing that likes looping thoughts excessively and it bombarded me. It played up my misplays, it repeated lines, it reminded me of all my $%#! ups in S3, S4, S5 and S7. I have lost it all. I slept for around 90 minutes that night. 90 minutes of sleep and 5,5 hours of thoughts. I went to work the next day. And all I could think of was what would come when the clock hits midnight my time. And it is all my fault.

    Still, I wanted to do the game justice and I wanted to give it my all, no excuses, during that F3. Never give up. The least thing I could do to my teammates and myself is to play. I was kinda dead inside during the first hours though but then I got into the groove again.

    I knew I would lose. I had accepted it already.

    That does not make the F5 easier. Imagine that you have practiced for something for five years. You lost a Finale already spectacularly and just misplayed the $%#! out of it. That memory has lived on vividly for years, and now you have the opportunity to correct everything. To make that vote. And you $%#!ing do the same mistake again. This was my best shot, my one shot. And I blew it and I will not be able to forgive myself for that. Mafia is just a game and there is more to life, yes. But this was my moment. Except it was not. I want/wanted to scream at everything how unfair it is even though I fell on my own grip. This was my one chance. Right now things feel pointless. So what if I am assertive in another game? It is not the finale. Too little, too late. I can’t feel proud of my game this time around when I utterly failed.

    I really wanted that redemption arc. I yearned for it.
    But that is not how things work. Because I misplayed. It is all on me. Factually.

    $%#! man. This is how it ends, huh.

    I feel this much about this because I care so much about champs and I just… want to feel happy with my play. Do something right for once when things outside of mafia don't.

    Actually, no more words. This is my favourite scene in my favourite Disney movie, featuring my favourite MC (who was my childhood relate-to-hero) and my favourite villain.


    It explains it better than I could ever do, though I have not had a Silver. It just. Jim’s words echoes all my thoughts and emotions on the whole thing. It just fits and has always fit.

    Why does it have to end like this? I don’t want it to. I want to keep champing smh.


    I have super special rare cards tbh
    This contains positive cringe tbh


    This loss does hurt, and it is true I won’t forgive myself for this, ever. That does not take away that I love the championship. I love the aspect of spec chat and entertaining them. People I have not talked to say that they read games I play because I am always fun to watch. I feel a little bad for hardly interacting back. It just feels really nice. People who have seen me play champs for years and get happy to see me and my memes and my posts. And I play my heart out and that creates a sort of drama that makes people laugh and care and that is some powerful stuff. That makes everything worth it. That makes this loss worth it. I have vanity searched me after this game, and I see familiar faces and some not. Some I talk to on a regular basis, some I have never spoken to. And my posts have given them excitement and laughter over the years. I am humbled and thankful for that.

    I love champs. I love the competition. I enjoy vibing and memeing in the thread and not being too serious about it, even though I end up doing that anyway. Because I care about the competition. I hatched my idea of doing ygo card memes a bit before rand. I wanted to make a tribute to the competition that has been a huge part of my life from when I was 22 to now when I am 27. All the funny memes and the players, known and unknown (like I $%#!ing love you Jseadog, you are the man). Now it is over for me. I seriously do not think I will play a champ game again. I don’t want to occupy a spot for someone who hasn’t got to do it yet. So I wanted to pay tribute.

    Which is also why I wanted to pay tribute to SK in that meme video. A saga that came to an end. A story that I have been very invested in.

    I love champs! I remember how Speck said he played the whole qualifier on his 3DS. That was insane. I remember Newcomb’s funny meme response to fdas. I remember how I death tunnelled Stanari and made some weirdo metaphor, like, walking inside thorny bushes to read her or something. Then in post-game people in her community said they loved me. ??? Poor Stan. Stanari is a delight. I remember always having a fun time playing with the Flight Rising community. How Tsaiah wrote on my MU wall to congratulate me on my S4G11 win. It is still there and the words still make me happy. Tsaiah, a person who I have hardly played/interacted with, whom I saw in spec chat just… getting my playstyle and being entertained. Speaking of FlightRising, Trash and Abyssum too, it is always fun to play with the FR gang.

    I remember how Tigger made me go insane. I was working a summer job during that game (for my dad, picking weeds) and I sneakily spied on my phone what Tigger was saying during that lylo. Even read his upside down text smfh. I remember my scum team, Helios and Alohomora. Two great players. It saddened me that I was the only one to advance and I hope they are doing okay. We had a great and fun scum chat.

    I remember how I was in a car ride during the Wild Card reveal. And G11 was revealed like last. I was in complete excitement. What if I would advance? And I did. I advanced. It was such an incredible feeling. Some jury people had looked at my game and decided that I should get another game. Never been happier for a game. For a sport. I dont know why they advanced me still, but it made me so happy. I was not used to getting recognised. It was a new and strange feeling.

    I remember the bond I formed with SK through the wild card game, even though it ended in tragedy. I remember having a really fun time playing with TomKat, and how I found scum at D1!!!! (walked back because I wanted to give the sub another day smfh). I remember how 113 wrote Et tu Brute? when waiting for me to hammer him. How his reaction to the players alive were “Man I even had to check my own role pm because i thought I was scum for a second” (he was town lol). I remember how dlgn got all conspiracy with me because I posted a gif of Edgar Allan Poe and remade a Poe poem as a list. Even asked me about previous games on his homesite, if I had read them.

    I remember how hard I fought in S5G8 quali when I subbed in as scum. How TK and I had a Swede moment. The strategies Shakespeare told me about. How we almost lost to some extremely good late sub ins like Orange and Squirtle. How Eevee outplayed us with a fake claim. How I made the final vote when it was 1 second left.

    I remember witnessing the epic showdown between Slaan, M Plus (Tangrowth) versus Five in their semifinal. That is one of the only times I have been 100% invested in a game I was not playing myself. What a show. What excitement. Do it again!

    I remember the finale. How Paratroopa and I bonded for being the leftover townies. I remember the hype. Especially the day we almost got Empoof yeeted. I remember the DS posts that made me laugh. I remember GH’s “oh $%#! i am so scared” at an eod and Nego voted for him and I was like “yeh, man, i should too” but did not because I am not a big boy.

    I have already spoken about Abyssum but I want to say I remember her again. A great friend who talked to me during some really bad irl things. She is awesome.

    I remember enjoying watching the games of S6, though I did not have much time due to uni. Dobby’s panic about 1610. The whole shebang of that game. And to think I would meet that goofball irl. I remember Jseadog and his quote. Fantastic stuff. I remember watching G11 and enjoying it as a cute lowkey game where Pokechu bussed the $%#! out of his teammates and I remember chess24 playing a lowkey cool scum game.

    I remember AvatarVecna, whose anger I completely understood. They were the fresh air that said the things I did not dare to say and though certain things were out of the line, I am grateful to have had them on their side. They made that game tolerable. Also Penguin. Penguin did make that game enjoyable. What a great scum player to play against.

    I remember how JJJ talked me through SF3. How he told people to give me peace and just… talk me through my despair. I really really really appreciated that helping hand. Thank you so much. Post 4041 and 4239 specifically.

    I remember my qualifier this season (lol of course I do). I got a good friend in Chingles! And Jeremy played like a $%#!ing goat. He set himself up to be my yearly death tunneller, and walked it back, but also walked back his tunnel on Capage. He is an extraordinary player and I hope to see him play again. I remember how Capage and I, after years of strife in games, found each other. And towned together. It felt so good to lean back and feel like we were town in sync. That was a blast. And watching Skunki fight was, although I had a bias, entertaining and fun. I remember the excitement in SF1. Soneji finding Silver. That was awesome. Me reuniting with Gorf since S3 and after some hurdles, I was able to comfortably town read him. Beaker! was a great player to play with, despite my sus of him. Being able to town read both Chingles and Ap were a great time too, and the vote a wolf meme. PRing with Thunal felt nice, like, it felt good to bounce ideas with her and be able to relate to each other with our clear town fears.

    Basically. I love champs. I have been playing as this underdog. The one who keeps trying but falls at the end. But I have also had fun, and I think I have been more than a clown underdog? I always vanity search myself and I kinda get like “wow, did my post make you feel like that?” “oh damn i didnt think about that” “yessss like my memes plssss” and just been in awe and humbled of the excitement that I have helped create (pls be kind to players tho). The whole entertaining people part is what I love the most. When I advanced to the finale, my ultimate goal, regardless of dreams, was to have fun.

    I had fun. Thank you for playing with me and watching me during these years. Thank you for your kind words, for your cheers, for you being sad on my behalf, for caring about my little story. Thank you. Thank you for playing with me, keeping up with me despite the fact that I am demanding and can be annoying. I’d love to play again in champs, but I don’t think that will happen. Thank you and goodbye.


    I am sending myself off with this final meme.
    The final championship meme from Player Boquise
    Beware, some Rick and Morty season 5 finale spoilers are in it tbh
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    Completed I will answer people individually later but...

    I will answer people individually later but thanks for the kind words. I just can't take in positive/encouraging words right now.

    I was super close to vote Katze at D4.
    I had the correct solve at D6.
    Then I hesitated again.

    Today I did begin to tinfoil Alexa once more but stopped.

    $%#!ing sucks. $%#!. $%#!. $%#!. $%#!. Insert all the AtE I held in. Like after the Gorf yeet, that night, idk how to describe how disappointed I was in myself. Then the Pilica yeet. Then when Katze was yeeted I thought I had ruined everything for town. Again, in a worse way than S5 Finale.

    Blargh.
    Goodbye.
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    Completed Nice to single-handedly throw because I am too...

    Nice to single-handedly throw because I am too scared to make votes when they count.
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    Completed Why did you just not kill me at sod today

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10534)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10532)
    This sucks.

    To think that had I not hesitated, I would have crossed with Alexa yesterday.

    $%#!.
    im sorry boq ;-;
    Why did you just not kill me at sod today
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    Completed This sucks. To think that had I not hesitated,...

    This sucks.

    To think that had I not hesitated, I would have crossed with Alexa yesterday.

    $%#!.
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    Completed I very little knowledge of you and wiml's...

    I very little knowledge of you and wiml's relationship prior to this game. The point is the emotional connection created in this specific game.

    Yes, it is what -I- think here that matters on the NK. My mindset. It doesn't matter if you doubt that I'd win Wiml over, or what theoretical perspective you have there. I personally think that I would have a higher chance to live in any F3 that isn't this.
    ---

    Back to other reasons to clear me
    Like I said, if I am a wolf, you will have to believe that I, out of nowhere when I am alone in the thread, start solving Vandy (actually it isn't even out of nowhere, I react to a post about Vandy by saying hmm and decide to inspect his read list) and put in a good amount of time and effort to then start sussing Kat. To end up right after to town read Kat. That doesn't make sense.

    Another thing that doesn't make sense if Kat and I are scum is eod4. Katze unvotes me, leaving me at 2 versus 3 on Gorf, and people have said they prefer me over Gorf. Meanwhile, I am sussing a Kat post a little, go back on it, and then just sit there frozen and then vote Gorf in the last second.

    That is disorganised. That is a Scooby Doo villain team, me and Katze just sitting there screaming as town is doing everything. That is not a team that came all the way to F5.

    Katze would not unvote Gorf there (whom they had built up a scum read on) and risk my life without any sort of win afterwards for the trouble.
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    Completed You should read through my progressions without...

    You should read through my progressions without Thunal showing which quotes to read.

    If I vote now, will you snap vote me or will you keep solving? @alexa
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    Completed it isnt even that i argue that i would have a...

    it isnt even that i argue that i would have a good chance to get Wiml to vote for my side. It is just that I think the % is higher that he would over this world.

    This is just one of many arguments for why I am town though tbh

    I am going to sleep. I need to sleep more than 2-3 hours a night tbh
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    Completed Wiml have not connected with you the same way as...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10403)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10398)

    Okay so lets start with the most important. Alexa, you have clearly showed in this game that you FOS people who are paranoid of you lmao.

    Like I said before (I think), around the end of eod, when you had voted Kat, it became clear that Wiml was leaning towards Kat. Like my case on you and Thunal happened way before what I am talking about. I am talking about after you voted Kat. Thats afterwards, and Wiml was leaning to that.

    I am pretty convinced that my thread state would be better if I had done a late bus before Wiml voted (he even stated he was more at Kat than Thun at a point).

    It isnt wolfy that a town player has zero paranoia in a F3 in a Championship finale and doesnt even attempt to look at different angles even once?

    Thank you. I rather go down due to Katze antics than emotions.

    It is okay. Poison did not really understand it either tbh. The problem is that you are looking at "Would Boq win that F3 from my pov?" over "What pairing does Boq think he has the best chance to win in a F3?" I showed the whole shebang with you and Thunal. Never that I am here in a F3 with you two as a wolf. Never. I take a 5-10% chance to win over a 1% chance to win every single day as a wolf.

    Also, I wanna sleep and stuff tbh but i am scared i will wake up to an open thread smh
    i don't think i've showed that this game? if i have it's mainly been a hipfire reaction that i've reconsidered later - i know i did at one point with you, but you were on my radar already at that point, whereas today i have thunal as more likely town so paranoia would not have impacted that

    yes, Wiml was more at kat than Thunal before you dropped your case, but his reaction to your case was: P#9820
    he was very torn on who to vote
    P#9857 - 'everyone sell me on everything'
    P#9883 - alexa and Thun have been wolfy

    it is wolfy in theory but with MY SPECIFIC POSITION of nearly being cleared, i'm not seeing it as much

    like I really want you to sell me on how Wiml would not be the best possible night kill for you too?
    Wiml have not connected with you the same way as you and Thunal did yesterday.
    You two connected a lot emotionally. You basically town read each other for the same thing and parrot each others' reads.
    That is always a loss.
    Wiml will not have the same mindset as you.

    Lets play pretend
    Lets say that yesterday was played out the same, but you and Thunal are wolves together and Wiml votes Thunal.
    You will have to pick between bringing me and Katze, who have buddied up (tho not as much as you and Thunal), or 1 of us and Wiml, who is now clear.

    Idk maybe you pick having me and Katze, and in a way that is more favourable than what I have right now.
    I am pretty sure that I would be able, as a wolf, to convince Wiml that one of you and Thunal is a wolf. I think though the best option would be Thunal/Wiml, despite their connection, due to the 1v1 vote but idk. I have no hope convincing you due to the AtE and Katze bringing me down. I am doing this because I want to feel like I gave it my all tbh.

    I think you should look at S7G9's lylo where I make this exact argument tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10405)
    also what even is that thought?
    It isnt a thought. It is just a disbelief that all that AtE is theatre. I am sure you are town but like.
    Divagreen did have a lot of emotions she used in S4SF2 so yeah

    Also, you have shown how you react to paranoia. You showed that to Vanity on D1 and you even kept going at him (but not sussing) when she was cleared. Everytime I started getting paranoid at you in this game, you got into FOS mode. It has been pretty clear tbh. I dont think scum!Thunal want to take needless risks and I think she expected me to get shot down by you two a long time ago tbh
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    Completed Ah, I actually missed that tbh. It still does not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10400)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10394)
    okay one last time I just cant not.

    Thunal, if you lie I will call you out for lying. You'll just have to live with that, just how I have to live with you using intense AtE to get yourself a misclear in this game tbh
    --------
    @alexa why do I not just abandon ship on Katze after you vote him? I have opportunities to walk back

    and lol is this

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10390)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10386)
    @Thunal33 do you have any questions for me/any concerns about me? has any thoughts like that entered your mind/what has been your mindset in regards to me?

    tbh i didn't see it as surprising (the lack of tinfoil) because i thought that i came out of that EOD pretty much cleared, and if i were scum there i could've easily gotten her yesterday, so her treating me this way has made a lot of sense from my perspective - but what specific parts of a tinfoil would you expect her as town to entertain? @Boquise - like what went through your head, etc
    If you were scum with Katze, Boq clearly had intent to vote me over Katze and you could have just waited for Boq to vote and then got the win by voting me.

    I had brief tinfoil going into the day because I wanted to have all my bases covered and make sure I wasn't making a wrong decision but I'm 99% sure I'm not.

    I also think your approach today has been really towny because I showed a lot of intent to vote Boq but you prolonged the day - had you just snapvoted Boq I would have sided with you fairly quickly. So I think you're just town and I don't see myself ever changing my mind about that.
    @alexa this is not a brief tinfoil. Like what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10093)
    I think it's Boq, I don't think I'm ever going to change my mind. I won't vote right now but I really want the game to end and I plan to vote well before the 48 hours are up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10098)
    It's Boq because he not only sided with Katze but had all the same beliefs as Katze during that EoD. They both had the same attitude about being locked out because of townies expressing emotion and Boq's cases were weak.
    This is not a tinfoil. This is never a tinfoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10358)
    critical day one spew evaluation on boq

    Katze on Boq (D1):
    P#165 boq is a villager, has a “secret read” on him
    P#594 he’s just a villager
    P#884 links game that just finished Boq was a wolf in - i'd give this unpartnered points but it can very easily be a point where kat looked at his meta/gave him tips from the way she specifically presents this
    P#1061 "my most controversial townread is boq" sounds slightly partnered in the way Vandy/celtic did last game, one (-) point
    P#1176 "boq was in scumchat looking like he wasn't having a good time" huh
    P#1472 "boq i rescind the PR claim just for you" why is it just for him??
    P#1843 "Van it's d1 we're not deepwolf hunting" kinda weird katze's mind goes there at all, slight (-)
    P#2241 Boq in towns
    P#2297 is also why i want the followup from Boq
    P#2511 'why are people voting boq' focus, stop being chaotic - could potentially be pockety, though she seems to care a bit too much about it for me to give that a +

    not going into D2 yet but will note her section on Boq as interesting:
    "How did Vandyfan402 treat Boquise?

    P#208 - “boq has 33 posts and i don’t remember any”, blind shade -- and while his next post (P#218) isn’t about boq directly... i think the fact that he goes on to “iso” vanity instead is indicative that he doesn’t really care what boq thinks about him? iffy on that but boq wasnt in the thread at the time so i dont think this is *planned* theatre at the v least
    P#253 - repeats the above basically but backtracks and says it probably makes him null? hm.
    P#385 - shades boq further while talking to gorf
    P#743 - piggybacks off of boq townreading a JC post to shade JC, feels unaligned
    P#1632 - has boq in PoE after basically just not mentioning him at all

    Conclusion: vandys treatment of boq is weird, but i lean towards it looking good for boq"


    2 (-) overall
    mmm okay i'm going into vandy on Boq

    Vandy on Boq (D1):
    P#208 "I don't remember any of Boq's posts" okay a few people said this including myself so i wouldn't lean it one way or the other
    P#253 Boq is still null
    P#385 'Gorf, can you elaborate on your read on Boq? the post you linked is a yikes level of light'
    looking back at the post: it's a post where Gorf calls Boq towny. hm, maybe slightly (+) for Boq in that regard, though i need to spot-check how Vandy treated Psycho because I don't think it was completely different. Still, going out of your way to shade townreads on your partner that early seems bad considering how Vandy treated katze
    P#432 boq null
    P#649 boq seems scummier
    P#1240 has boq in null leaning town though
    P#1632 'so it's like Wiml, Boq, Soneji or something?' rule of 3: (-) for this

    Evens out here: Which is curious because Kat had Boq looking good in her spew analysis but to me this seems to not go one way or the other
    I am getting rule of 3'd, just like S4SF2 tbh. How nostalgic tbh
    Consider that Vandy had Katze as top town. And who everyone else was in his read list. Actually I will show you tbh


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8269)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#649)
    I woke up late so I don’t really have time to play before work, but I was able on catch up to the thread. I think over night Katze, Gorf, and Wisdom got townier. Wiml stayed the same. Boq seems scummier. JC also got townier, but him writing a post about not locking anyone in, and then seconding Katzes I’m never voting on HF is weird.
    So some things about Vandy. He barely interacts with some of us. I became scummier for ??? reasons, Wiml is scum too but there are no specific posts. Later he says that there should be 1 scum in me, Soneji, Wiml. Soneji flipped town and I know I am town. The question is if he puts his scummate there, especially since Wiml made it clear in the thread that he is feeling miserable about the poe? Probably a weak reason in this stage of the game.

    However, Vandy starts town reading Katze even more. And as far as I can see, he hasn't interacted with any Katze post not mentioned Katze. It takes Vandy to the end of D1 to talk directly to Katze and about Katze. Same with Wiml.

    He hardly talks directly to Thunal and Alexa too, to be fair, but I think he is talking about them more. I don't really know why people have iirc cleared Thunal for Vandy saying she is new/polarised when it was also agreed that we shouldn't read into his EOD talk. Need to refresh who brought that up the first time, that that spews Thunal town

    He also reacts sarcastic to Pilica's case on him (similarly to how he reacted sarcastically to me saying that I will stay on him).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2387)
    Man, so glad Pilica came in and dropped the surprising case on me out of nowhere.
    Also a thing is that whilst Vandy sussed me and Wiml, he never voted any of us and instead went for Hornet. He only voted Wiml when Wiml self-voted I can't really decide what that means. Let's look at the read lists.

    I am going to write in TOWN on the flipped town and on me and probably town on Hornet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#432)
    alexa- lean town
    Boquise-null Town
    Gorf-null Town
    Holyflare- null leaning town Town
    Hornet-null Probably town
    JohnCarter- leaning town Town
    katze-leaning town
    Pilica-null
    Soneji-null Town
    The Sun Fan-leaning town Town
    Thunal33- town
    vanity- town Town
    Wiml- leaning scum
    Wisdom-null Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1240)
    Updated Reads list in order. AMA

    Town:
    Vanity Town
    Wisdom Town
    Katze

    Town Leans:
    Thunal
    Alexa
    TSF Town
    HF Town
    Soneji Town
    Gorf Town

    Null Leaning Town
    Boq Town

    True Null
    Pilica

    Scum Leans
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town
    JC Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2047)
    3 PRs.
    Katze
    Alexa
    Thunal
    TSF Town
    Gorf Town
    Soneji Town
    Boq Town
    HF Town
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town

    Who the $%#! knows with Pilica. Imagine having a read there.

    This is my ordered list for legacy
    Like previous of the bucket and Katze's fake claim, Vandy had Katze as lean town without any read.

    He did post why Alexa was town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#411)
    Without doing any reading of her meta, I feel like Alexa voting for TSF there is more towny than not. Feels like a towny jump the gun
    and I think that JC's travel down to bottom poe and Vandy insisting on Hornet being scum (and pushing me slightly) shows that Vandy was more interested in pushing villagers than pushing scum.

    Katze travels up from leaning town, to pr town and then solidify as top town underneath PRs, without any visible progression.

    Alexa was town read by the whole thread so I get that a scum player can lazily town read her and be done with it. But there is a lack of progression and interest. I need to read this even more carefully to see his exact progression on Katze, Alexa and Thunal tbh.

    Because unless the team is exactly Wiml/Pilica, Vandy put at least 1 teammate up there in top town position.


    Vandy scum read towns and town read his scum mates. That can be seen here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10392)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10387)
    Yes Thunal, you have found one post in S5G8 where I try to use my town meta in my favour. I do not get stuck in a loop in S5G8. Way to cherry-pick your quotes when you have a massive amount of meta posts in S3G7, S4SF2 and, most importantly, S7SF3 that disproves you. Cool to see that you bothered to check out my meta now tbh. Didnt think you had the time.
    To disprove a for all statement, you need only one counterexample. That's what I was doing. I didn't need to go through 4 of your games to do an analysis of how many times you cared about being ignored, I needed one counterexample to disprove your statement.

    I didn't turn around at all with my statement about "why were you happy in the first place?" I think your response to that question is okay.

    You didn't play a subpar d6 and d7 at all! You tried really, really hard to get me eliminated over Katze yesterday and now you're trying really, really hard to get me eliminated today. You absolutely didn't throw a finale, things just didn't go your way because you didn't expect me to be as convincing as I was.

    I have a slightly different stance from Alexa. I think that if the emotion is in the thread, it can and will be read into. It's information the person posts in the thread and it's AI so it's fair game to read. But even so, Alexa is trying to solve largely excluding emotions today.
    Then you did not understand the statement, since the statement is about how my mentality is through the whole game. It is way way way different to make ONE measly post about "man no one listens to me", to just stop functioning in the thread and loop back and forth. Yes, meta can be faked. I am surprised one of the "You cant scum read me for this because it isnt in my meta" thinks that one counter example (that is barely even touching what I am saying) is enough.


    lmao wolf Thunal. You are so funny tbh
    It is subpar to get stuck with Katze like that, without even wanting to, and it is subpar to make the worst NK decision I could have done (when I choosing NK target is my fav part as mafia). It is both good and bad that I am town tbh.

    It means I played $%#!ing subpar D4, D5 and D6. But at least I am doing my best now.
    You are correct though that I did not expect you to convince people the way you did. And I do not respect your play for that. I want you to know that. After my misyeet, I will repeat that. And it is actually not that you are convincing atm. I am dying because Katze did a terrific job sticking himself into me and taking me down with them. That plus your AtE are what is dragging me down. I fully respect Katze's play there, even though it is soul-crushing and not how I hoped my championship saga would end. It is what it is.
    Boq, you misrepped me again. You didn't quote my actual tinfoil, where I pinged Alexa and asked her to explain why she was town because I wanted all my bases covered.

    It's not the worst NK decision you could have done, it's the optimal NK decision because he was the most confirmed and still set up a Katze/Boq team.

    You didn't stop functioning in the thread at all, you wanted people to listen to you so they could call you townie.

    Okay, this is crossing a line. Stop it. I already know you don't respect my play. It was in the heat of the moment and I was so terrified of being the game losing ML that I didn't know what else to do. Oh btw here's another reason I literally never do that while I'm w/w with Katze: I know that some people will not think highly of my play after the game because of what I did. Having a somewhat lower chance of losing that thunderdome isn't worth both potentially making people think badly of me and potentially making people think badly about my play.

    And about whether the AtE was ethical: Stop it. This is a discussion for post game and I'm not going to tolerate you continuing to say you have no respect for my play even though you've already said it a bunch. I'm not going to tolerate you dismissing me by saying "lmao wolf Thunal" and "are you even trying". I'm already insecure about going to those lengths to clear myself and I don't need you to shove down my throat that it's wrong. I'm trying to be respectful to you. At least show me respect.
    Ah, I actually missed that tbh. It still does not show any concern about my alignment.

    It is the worst NK decision I could have done. It doesnt matter that Wiml is cleared. Have you never seen wolves take a clear to a F3 before?

    Sure, I will stop saying that now. But lol I will not stop making taunts like "lol wolf Thunal" and ask if you are even trying when you try to sell something that isnt true. "Are you even trying" was not even related to this post, but you trying to make it sound like I was super late into calling off Kat/Wiml shots when that wasnt true. And yes, I will say that something is wrong if it is wrong. Your point about the Kat/Wiml shot was wrong.

    I am town and I am losing. You are a wolf and you are winning. I will write "lol wolf" whenever I want and how much I want, and there is nothing disrespectful of that tbqfh.


    Like, Alexa, are you sure you are not just $%#!ing with me and you are the final wolf?
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    Completed reposting this for it to matter alexa Here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10380)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10377)
    #9074 was after Alexa's #9002 and #9008, and it was at a time when the thread temperature was turning from tunneling Wiml to actively trying to solve him. In order to look townie it would make the most sense to engage with Wiml and look like he's trying to solve him.

    Boq didn't say his gut called Wiml town but was conflicted until #9090 which was after Wiml mentioned his dirty clear. Of course w!Boq didn't express fear because it would be legitimately outing for him to do so.

    To answer Boq: you reversed your read on Wiml before the thread consensus was inclined to townread Wiml. You were inclined not to want a Wiml/Katze cross in #9327 and #9441 when it was still likely going to happen.
    Post 9002 is not about Wiml, it is about HF. Post 9008 is Alexa saying "If you are a villager". The thread consensus of Wiml was not changing at this point to Wiml's favour, considering #9067

    I showed in post 9074 that I wanted to work together with Wiml. Both those posts are basically saying the same thing.

    I yelled out against Wiml voting Katze, though not first but fairly early. Here is my post: p#9164 p#9167
    I was inclined to not want a Wiml/Katze cross in p#9143 first btw.

    Are you even trying tbh
    reposting this for it to matter
    @alexa

    Here is another example where Thunal is using "false statements" to wolf read me.

    I think I will have to go through her counter-points against me from today. They probably have a dozen of "false statements" too tbh

    smh post cap...
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    Completed Okay so lets start with the most important....

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10397)
    @Boquise why would you abandon ship on katze after I vote her when Wiml was listening to your case/when you came in with the case on me/Thunal and it would've been an ideal opportunity to win for a you/kat team?

    and okay i'm looking back and i interpreted her not agreeing the WIFOMy comment was clearing as a tinfoil but you're probably actually right she has not expressed paranoia on me - however, i don't think it's that wolfy in her situation. i mean, if she had expressed some paranoia/pretended to be paranoid as wolf, it wouldn't really have impacted my read at all and it would be easy to do so in a way that would seem realistic to me (i don't think i've shown this game that i automatically FOS people who are paranoid of me)

    i respect your request to not consider emotions in my vote decision, though

    your alternative to night killing Wiml would be night killing Thunal and convincing Wiml that I somehow bussed katze there which i don't think would've ever happened, like you could've killed me but the emotional bond between Wiml/Thunal was much stronger based on that EOD so i just don't see the night kill as a huge argument in your favor no matter how many times you say it, i'm sorry
    Okay so lets start with the most important. Alexa, you have clearly showed in this game that you FOS people who are paranoid of you lmao.

    Like I said before (I think), around the end of eod, when you had voted Kat, it became clear that Wiml was leaning towards Kat. Like my case on you and Thunal happened way before what I am talking about. I am talking about after you voted Kat. Thats afterwards, and Wiml was leaning to that.

    I am pretty convinced that my thread state would be better if I had done a late bus before Wiml voted (he even stated he was more at Kat than Thun at a point).

    It isnt wolfy that a town player has zero paranoia in a F3 in a Championship finale and doesnt even attempt to look at different angles even once?

    Thank you. I rather go down due to Katze antics than emotions.

    It is okay. Poison did not really understand it either tbh. The problem is that you are looking at "Would Boq win that F3 from my pov?" over "What pairing does Boq think he has the best chance to win in a F3?" I showed the whole shebang with you and Thunal. Never that I am here in a F3 with you two as a wolf. Never. I take a 5-10% chance to win over a 1% chance to win every single day as a wolf.

    Also, I wanna sleep and stuff tbh but i am scared i will wake up to an open thread smh
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    Completed This does not make sense. Did you assume that I...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10395)
    Also your point that you wouldn't bring two people that are emotionally attached to each other in an F3 together doesn't hold any water since Wiml was also emotionally attached to me. Alexa/Wiml would be the least emotionally attached pair but wolf!Wiml would have been virtually impossible since he literally could have won by hammering me and didn't. Any wolf would kill Wiml last night.
    This does not make sense. Did you assume that I meant that it would be you and Wiml with me in this F3? Why?
    I have not even argued that I'd push Wiml there if I was a wolf. I'd obviously push the person not being Wiml. I have already said that even. But thank you for clarifying that Alexa/Wiml would be least emotionally attached. I always like it when wolves prove my points tbh

    So yes, glad we cleared out that it does hold water. Idc what "any wolf" would do. I am not any wolf tbh, though I do think that the survivability of a me as a wolf does shoot up in an Alexa/Wiml and it is pretty ridiculous that that is being argued against tbh
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    Completed okay one last time I just cant not. Thunal, if...

    okay one last time I just cant not.

    Thunal, if you lie I will call you out for lying. You'll just have to live with that, just how I have to live with you using intense AtE to get yourself a misclear in this game tbh
    --------
    @alexa why do I not just abandon ship on Katze after you vote him? I have opportunities to walk back

    and lol is this

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10390)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10386)
    @Thunal33 do you have any questions for me/any concerns about me? has any thoughts like that entered your mind/what has been your mindset in regards to me?

    tbh i didn't see it as surprising (the lack of tinfoil) because i thought that i came out of that EOD pretty much cleared, and if i were scum there i could've easily gotten her yesterday, so her treating me this way has made a lot of sense from my perspective - but what specific parts of a tinfoil would you expect her as town to entertain? @Boquise - like what went through your head, etc
    If you were scum with Katze, Boq clearly had intent to vote me over Katze and you could have just waited for Boq to vote and then got the win by voting me.

    I had brief tinfoil going into the day because I wanted to have all my bases covered and make sure I wasn't making a wrong decision but I'm 99% sure I'm not.

    I also think your approach today has been really towny because I showed a lot of intent to vote Boq but you prolonged the day - had you just snapvoted Boq I would have sided with you fairly quickly. So I think you're just town and I don't see myself ever changing my mind about that.
    @alexa this is not a brief tinfoil. Like what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10093)
    I think it's Boq, I don't think I'm ever going to change my mind. I won't vote right now but I really want the game to end and I plan to vote well before the 48 hours are up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10098)
    It's Boq because he not only sided with Katze but had all the same beliefs as Katze during that EoD. They both had the same attitude about being locked out because of townies expressing emotion and Boq's cases were weak.
    This is not a tinfoil. This is never a tinfoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10358)
    critical day one spew evaluation on boq

    Katze on Boq (D1):
    P#165 boq is a villager, has a “secret read” on him
    P#594 he’s just a villager
    P#884 links game that just finished Boq was a wolf in - i'd give this unpartnered points but it can very easily be a point where kat looked at his meta/gave him tips from the way she specifically presents this
    P#1061 "my most controversial townread is boq" sounds slightly partnered in the way Vandy/celtic did last game, one (-) point
    P#1176 "boq was in scumchat looking like he wasn't having a good time" huh
    P#1472 "boq i rescind the PR claim just for you" why is it just for him??
    P#1843 "Van it's d1 we're not deepwolf hunting" kinda weird katze's mind goes there at all, slight (-)
    P#2241 Boq in towns
    P#2297 is also why i want the followup from Boq
    P#2511 'why are people voting boq' focus, stop being chaotic - could potentially be pockety, though she seems to care a bit too much about it for me to give that a +

    not going into D2 yet but will note her section on Boq as interesting:
    "How did Vandyfan402 treat Boquise?

    P#208 - “boq has 33 posts and i don’t remember any”, blind shade -- and while his next post (P#218) isn’t about boq directly... i think the fact that he goes on to “iso” vanity instead is indicative that he doesn’t really care what boq thinks about him? iffy on that but boq wasnt in the thread at the time so i dont think this is *planned* theatre at the v least
    P#253 - repeats the above basically but backtracks and says it probably makes him null? hm.
    P#385 - shades boq further while talking to gorf
    P#743 - piggybacks off of boq townreading a JC post to shade JC, feels unaligned
    P#1632 - has boq in PoE after basically just not mentioning him at all

    Conclusion: vandys treatment of boq is weird, but i lean towards it looking good for boq"


    2 (-) overall
    mmm okay i'm going into vandy on Boq

    Vandy on Boq (D1):
    P#208 "I don't remember any of Boq's posts" okay a few people said this including myself so i wouldn't lean it one way or the other
    P#253 Boq is still null
    P#385 'Gorf, can you elaborate on your read on Boq? the post you linked is a yikes level of light'
    looking back at the post: it's a post where Gorf calls Boq towny. hm, maybe slightly (+) for Boq in that regard, though i need to spot-check how Vandy treated Psycho because I don't think it was completely different. Still, going out of your way to shade townreads on your partner that early seems bad considering how Vandy treated katze
    P#432 boq null
    P#649 boq seems scummier
    P#1240 has boq in null leaning town though
    P#1632 'so it's like Wiml, Boq, Soneji or something?' rule of 3: (-) for this

    Evens out here: Which is curious because Kat had Boq looking good in her spew analysis but to me this seems to not go one way or the other
    I am getting rule of 3'd, just like S4SF2 tbh. How nostalgic tbh
    Consider that Vandy had Katze as top town. And who everyone else was in his read list. Actually I will show you tbh


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8269)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#649)
    I woke up late so I don’t really have time to play before work, but I was able on catch up to the thread. I think over night Katze, Gorf, and Wisdom got townier. Wiml stayed the same. Boq seems scummier. JC also got townier, but him writing a post about not locking anyone in, and then seconding Katzes I’m never voting on HF is weird.
    So some things about Vandy. He barely interacts with some of us. I became scummier for ??? reasons, Wiml is scum too but there are no specific posts. Later he says that there should be 1 scum in me, Soneji, Wiml. Soneji flipped town and I know I am town. The question is if he puts his scummate there, especially since Wiml made it clear in the thread that he is feeling miserable about the poe? Probably a weak reason in this stage of the game.

    However, Vandy starts town reading Katze even more. And as far as I can see, he hasn't interacted with any Katze post not mentioned Katze. It takes Vandy to the end of D1 to talk directly to Katze and about Katze. Same with Wiml.

    He hardly talks directly to Thunal and Alexa too, to be fair, but I think he is talking about them more. I don't really know why people have iirc cleared Thunal for Vandy saying she is new/polarised when it was also agreed that we shouldn't read into his EOD talk. Need to refresh who brought that up the first time, that that spews Thunal town

    He also reacts sarcastic to Pilica's case on him (similarly to how he reacted sarcastically to me saying that I will stay on him).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2387)
    Man, so glad Pilica came in and dropped the surprising case on me out of nowhere.
    Also a thing is that whilst Vandy sussed me and Wiml, he never voted any of us and instead went for Hornet. He only voted Wiml when Wiml self-voted I can't really decide what that means. Let's look at the read lists.

    I am going to write in TOWN on the flipped town and on me and probably town on Hornet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#432)
    alexa- lean town
    Boquise-null Town
    Gorf-null Town
    Holyflare- null leaning town Town
    Hornet-null Probably town
    JohnCarter- leaning town Town
    katze-leaning town
    Pilica-null
    Soneji-null Town
    The Sun Fan-leaning town Town
    Thunal33- town
    vanity- town Town
    Wiml- leaning scum
    Wisdom-null Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1240)
    Updated Reads list in order. AMA

    Town:
    Vanity Town
    Wisdom Town
    Katze

    Town Leans:
    Thunal
    Alexa
    TSF Town
    HF Town
    Soneji Town
    Gorf Town

    Null Leaning Town
    Boq Town

    True Null
    Pilica

    Scum Leans
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town
    JC Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2047)
    3 PRs.
    Katze
    Alexa
    Thunal
    TSF Town
    Gorf Town
    Soneji Town
    Boq Town
    HF Town
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town

    Who the $%#! knows with Pilica. Imagine having a read there.

    This is my ordered list for legacy
    Like previous of the bucket and Katze's fake claim, Vandy had Katze as lean town without any read.

    He did post why Alexa was town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#411)
    Without doing any reading of her meta, I feel like Alexa voting for TSF there is more towny than not. Feels like a towny jump the gun
    and I think that JC's travel down to bottom poe and Vandy insisting on Hornet being scum (and pushing me slightly) shows that Vandy was more interested in pushing villagers than pushing scum.

    Katze travels up from leaning town, to pr town and then solidify as top town underneath PRs, without any visible progression.

    Alexa was town read by the whole thread so I get that a scum player can lazily town read her and be done with it. But there is a lack of progression and interest. I need to read this even more carefully to see his exact progression on Katze, Alexa and Thunal tbh.

    Because unless the team is exactly Wiml/Pilica, Vandy put at least 1 teammate up there in top town position.


    Vandy scum read towns and town read his scum mates. That can be seen here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10392)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10387)
    Yes Thunal, you have found one post in S5G8 where I try to use my town meta in my favour. I do not get stuck in a loop in S5G8. Way to cherry-pick your quotes when you have a massive amount of meta posts in S3G7, S4SF2 and, most importantly, S7SF3 that disproves you. Cool to see that you bothered to check out my meta now tbh. Didnt think you had the time.
    To disprove a for all statement, you need only one counterexample. That's what I was doing. I didn't need to go through 4 of your games to do an analysis of how many times you cared about being ignored, I needed one counterexample to disprove your statement.

    I didn't turn around at all with my statement about "why were you happy in the first place?" I think your response to that question is okay.

    You didn't play a subpar d6 and d7 at all! You tried really, really hard to get me eliminated over Katze yesterday and now you're trying really, really hard to get me eliminated today. You absolutely didn't throw a finale, things just didn't go your way because you didn't expect me to be as convincing as I was.

    I have a slightly different stance from Alexa. I think that if the emotion is in the thread, it can and will be read into. It's information the person posts in the thread and it's AI so it's fair game to read. But even so, Alexa is trying to solve largely excluding emotions today.
    Then you did not understand the statement, since the statement is about how my mentality is through the whole game. It is way way way different to make ONE measly post about "man no one listens to me", to just stop functioning in the thread and loop back and forth. Yes, meta can be faked. I am surprised one of the "You cant scum read me for this because it isnt in my meta" thinks that one counter example (that is barely even touching what I am saying) is enough.


    lmao wolf Thunal. You are so funny tbh
    It is subpar to get stuck with Katze like that, without even wanting to, and it is subpar to make the worst NK decision I could have done (when I choosing NK target is my fav part as mafia). It is both good and bad that I am town tbh.

    It means I played $%#!ing subpar D4, D5 and D6. But at least I am doing my best now.
    You are correct though that I did not expect you to convince people the way you did. And I do not respect your play for that. I want you to know that. After my misyeet, I will repeat that. And it is actually not that you are convincing atm. I am dying because Katze did a terrific job sticking himself into me and taking me down with them. That plus your AtE are what is dragging me down. I fully respect Katze's play there, even though it is soul-crushing and not how I hoped my championship saga would end. It is what it is.
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    Completed That maybe you just did an advance play, that...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10386)
    @Thunal33 do you have any questions for me/any concerns about me? has any thoughts like that entered your mind/what has been your mindset in regards to me?

    tbh i didn't see it as surprising (the lack of tinfoil) because i thought that i came out of that EOD pretty much cleared, and if i were scum there i could've easily gotten her yesterday, so her treating me this way has made a lot of sense from my perspective - but what specific parts of a tinfoil would you expect her as town to entertain? @Boquise - like what went through your head, etc
    That maybe you just did an advance play, that maybe my posts are towny, or even a slight attempt to see things from my town perspective. Look on how she treated my town case. She scaled it down to 1 chapter and just shaded it. There is zero % paranoia.

    I am going to stop interacting with Thunal now tbh since that will just waste post count. @ me at preferably several posts at a time if you want me to reply to em and stuff. I am already close to capping and I do not want that to happen tbh. I have also reserved a meme post for when I vote Thunal and in case I am correct here. Actually I am close to voting.

    Do you want more time?
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    Completed Yes Thunal, you have found one post in S5G8 where...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10384)
    Response to Boq's towncase, part 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    Chapter 1 - My mentality,
    The story of a young Boq growing up in a poor Stockholm suburb in the 1920s tbh


    [FONT=Times New Roman]Lets start with how I began my game at D1. At sod1 I just try to meme and vibe, but also solve. I ask Thunal a question on a read I find bad and I do that to get a solve on her. However the thread leaders dislike me and I don't feel like I fit in in the town core. I have missed the train yet again. This is something that negatively affects me and makes me meme less. Anyway. I try to form reads and my reads are formed by looking at how people treat me. This is based on me knowing I am town so I look how players act towards a town player, if it is scummy etc.

    The thing that makes me townie here is how I approach sods and this D1 in general. I want to be at the major players' table but I am left in the dust. This completely enwraps my mind and I keep looping about how I do not want to repeat past games. This is not the approach I have as wolf. I simply do not care about this as wolf and it is not theatrics that is helping me, but I keep falling back to it.
    I thought it was townie at the time but it’s actually a viable approach as a wolf. As wolf you don’t want to be shoehorned in the PoE and you want to be townread and listened to. Insisting people listen to you helps you no matter your alignment. Actually, you do care about not being ignored and forgotten as wolf. This is from your s5g8 scum game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4714)
    I feel like my posts are ignored and forgotten and that frustrates me. And it makes me conspire why baddies kept me alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    My first scum reads are based on how people act to me, as I stated. I make self-centred reads and react. This can be seen when I react to Alexa and Vandy shading me the same way during D1. I also care about my posts being read and both meme and get passive-aggressive as I feel shunned. As a wolf, I dont care.
    Actually, you do care about being shunned as a wolf. I would too. Anyone would. This point is wolfy because you’re saying “as a wolf, I don’t care.” Knowing how competitive you are as a wolf I think you would care and get frustrated at people shading you in the champs finale.

    In fact, reads where annoyance is involved are among the easiest ones to fake. If you’re legitimately frustrated at the shade on you then it’s easy as scum to turn that into a scumread and channel your frustration. Silver did it in sf1 and I caught her for it. I’ve done it a bunch of times as scum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    At the same time I think my early pushes are good? This is why I scum read Wisdom. I legitimately think this is wolfy p#1094

    Like I think the best way to describe my D1 is rattled.
    You channeled your legitimate frustration about Wisdom’s treatment of you into a scum read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    My scum reads kinda dont work, but I decide to town cases on Katze, Gorf, Alexa and Wiml. Yes, Katze, and I will return to that point in a later chapter. This is something I have never done as scum afaik tbh. Not this excessively at least.
    This isn’t clearing at all. I haven’t read enough to know for sure whether it’s true or not but you’re in an environment where people are getting townpoints for towncasing others like Wiml did on Katze so it makes sense for any wolf to towncase people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    During both D2 and D3 I am still caught in this "this is a repeat of past games help" but I think one really good argument to see that my mentality is townie and not scummy is actually around D6. Mostly because honestly, it is super hard to recite my mindset in detail. When everyone was being a downer, I was being happy. Or at least, not really sad, and I showed that in posts. I tried to cheer people up and said I liked the challenge and stuff. Wolves want to mimic the tone of players when the thread is being sad. They do not want to come off as happy because they are scared about looking bad. This can be seen in Didney Worl when I make sure to have my public mindset similar to the thread's. Here I don't.
    I understand the logic between why a wolf wants to fit in with the thread but I also see logic for why a wolf would want to cheer people up. It would get them in good graces with the thread and make them likable, and it could also just be out of your own kindness. How about explaining why you were happy in the first place on d6 in lylo after 4 mislims and knowing town very well could be about to lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    Another mentality that does not fit with a wolf is how I approached today. Alexa wanted me to immediately town case myself, but I refuse. I pick fights with both of you instead and say I want to do things in the order I want, not anyone else. And clearly, regardless of the alignment you think I have, I havent given up. So my wolf plan here is to just do my own thing and try to solve? How does that help me? Being able to read the thread state is something I can do as both alignments. I appease as scum because being agreeable is generally better.
    Actually your wolf plan was to fight until the end. You thought that solving would make you look townie more than immediately towncasing yourself because that’s the prevailing mindset in mafia, and you still gave reasons why you were town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10365)
    The town plan I stated was "I want to find the last wolf, make a last solve, play the game to the fullest tbh!"
    I dont see my wolf plan. Like, I am not even trying to set doubt in any of you two because I am not saying who I scum read. I am just saying I wanna solve. I start arguing with you guys. That is not a wolf agenda.
    This is a WIFOM statement. You say it isn’t a wolf agenda but that would be incredibly easy to fake as a wolf agenda so you could point back to it later and say it wasn’t a wolf agenda. You actually did give reasons why you were town early today at Alexa’s request but Alexa wasn’t buying them.
    Yes Thunal, you have found one post in S5G8 where I try to use my town meta in my favour. I do not get stuck in a loop in S5G8. Way to cherry-pick your quotes when you have a massive amount of meta posts in S3G7, S4SF2 and, most importantly, S7SF3 that disproves you. Cool to see that you bothered to check out my meta now tbh. Didnt think you had the time.

    I am not Silver. But yes, as wolf I don't care. Not inside the thread. Sometimes, rarely, I care in wolf chat. I dont really remember when I actively pushed someone as wolf because they scum read me, and just keep going and not walking back. The difference is that I know they are town when I am wolf; I dont when I am town. Ergo, a lack of TMI. I am competitive as scum, but my goal as scum is to yeet town. So the only time that matters is eod. Ftr, I was completely cool in my scum game with iaafr hell bussing me. Kinda vibed in the wolf chat and then dvc as iaafr was apologising.

    I do not make my whole D1 and then on to D2 about this loop though. Sorry tbh.

    Actually Thunal, I dont really feel like answering much else here in your post. I think it is pretty clear to me that you are searching for reasons to scum read me. Like, you first say it isnt at all clearing for a wolf to be openly happy in a bad situation because that cheers town up and you are in good graces with em, but then you immediately turn around and sus me for having that perspective because "why would a town be happy here". Kinda hilarious tbh.

    I was feeling peaceful and happy because I was enjoying the moment of playing a difficult game where there were still room to find scum. This is my last championship game and I thought on how much fun it is to play mafia tbh, and I also was starting to form my Alexa scum read at that point iirc? Eh, it was a fun time, and people sitting and being down and sad when they get to play a finale was kinda dumb imo tbh. I also listened to some good music. Good life tbh

    Yes I finally gave some short reasons for why I am town but it took Alexa arguing with me for that to happen.

    The rest of your sentences are you telling me what I think, which is not something I really care for. My wolf plan would have been the most optimal one. Entering like a gladiator versus two people who are emotionally connected, is not that tbh.
    ---


    The case of me being a werewolf is that Alexa would have to assume that I played a subpar D6 and D7, throwing away a finale game like that.

    @alexa can you try to remove Thunal's emotions in your solve? Like I know it is hard. But it is pretty clear here who of us is in a deep wolf position, who of is set up better, and who here has TMI.
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    Completed It sucks yeah, I know I cant really combat it...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10379)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10378)
    Before I venture into a sort of "Why Thunal is playing like scum today" I want to clarify why I am tinfoiling you Alexa to even start with, which is also why I understand why you are having difficulties not scum reading me.

    If you are a wolf, at worst you did some AtE and a really unnecessary move but it is finales. Whatever. I laughed and clapped my hands after realising that Katze flipped wolf. Because I got $%#!ing played. I was not even mad at Katze, or you, since I was still in that zone. It was finals worthy in a sense. High entertainment. Sure, I have negative emotions about it too that I wont go into, but, like. Yeah. G $%#!ing G I will try my best tomorrow tho.

    If Thunal is a wolf, these are wolf posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9958)
    Wiml, you know me and you know Alexa. What are the odds that both of us just happened to do all your towntells and approach the game exactly how you would expect us to approach it as town?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9967)
    My play this game would also be gross as a wolf in addition to baffling. I'd have to be faking things that I'd just never fake, and I wouldn't promise I was town.

    oh and same question: what was the me/Alexa wolf team doing with me not sure if I wanted to vote Wiml while Alexa wanted to and then Alexa being the first to sus me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9999)
    I absolutely never play this day with this much AtE as a wolf in the champs finals. I do everything I can to avoid going into that icky detail, and I think Alexa feels the same.
    And that would $%#!ing suck. So I would actually like it if Alexa is a wolf, but I dont think she is. And I dont think Alexa wants to think that these posts come from a wolf. She even agrees that Thunal would never fake or use these emotions against Wiml (this is about D4 posts but like, same-same)
    i do understand that. realistically, yes i'll be honest, these posts do play a part in why i feel like it can't be thunal, but i can sum-up more concrete unemotional reasons (for example, her/katze not seeming paired in the way they approached each other)
    if you're a villager then i do understand why her approaching the day that way would suck. hell, it sucks if you're a wolf too because that'd be hard to work around. i'm trying to mainly consider the outside/other arguments as a foundation for my read/vote
    It sucks yeah, I know I cant really combat it because the emotional burden lies on you and that is not cool. You will have to unpack that after this game tbh.

    I forgot to another reason why Thunal is wolf.

    She has showed today absolute zero paranoia about me. She has said she thinks I am 99% wolf, but I would change that to 100% for her.

    Which would be pretty historical.
    Here we are in a Championship finale, and one player has zero tinfoil, zero sudden doubt, zero anything close to that. I have literally never seen that happen in a F3, let alone FINALE, where there hasnt been a mech clear. Like, even Poison began doubting her tunnel for some posts during our F3, and she had consistently and confidently scum read me since D1 and had a town read on the scum player.

    Thunal knows for sure that I am scum. The only time she has shown any sort of worry today is when she feels like you might reconsider your position.

    I have tinfoiled you, I have tinfoiled Thunal.
    You have considered different worlds and want to do this properly.
    Thunal is for sure I am scum and there is nothing else there. Like look at this p#10318 p#10336

    Who has TMI out of us tbh?

    Also, lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10354)
    oh, why you should townread me over Alexa. Tbh I think Alexa is mechanically clearer than I am and I've said as much. She had no reason to vote Katze over me as a wolf when she could have just waited for you to vote me.
    Thunal is literally telling me to town read you more than her.
    She is afraid of going there, to say why I, as town, should vote you over her. Because that could risk her going into your bad books tbh


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8677)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#8672)
    Can y'all do me a favor? Don't forget my hard tr on Boq because he feels like the next set up mislim from thread feeling and to reevaluate Wiml critically. If you don't end up with him wolf then so be it, maybe I'm just tunneled at this point but PLEASE take a critical look at him and don't clear him off any associations. Search for wolves individually. Don't think in teams. It doesn't matter. Get one. Think about the second after. If you exclude people on teams you could overlook things easily.


    It takes a lot of effort to get me down I think wolves are banking one misvoting

    That's why I try to hide some of my thoughts tbh
    This still holds true mehehehe tbh


    ---------

    Also Alexa,
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#9064)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9059)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#9053)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9049)
    Alexa deciding that you and I are town

    My vote priority rn is Wiml
    i think you are town more than i think katze is town fwiw
    but i am willing to reconsider my read on katze
    Why am I townie tbh iyo
    your last EOD was insanely villagery, it felt like you believed your read on Pilica
    also

    i went through your didney world meta and 2 metas of your past champs games last night

    How Boquise approaches LYLO as town (S7G9):
    >Super frustrated over putting a lot of work into the day before and not getting to finish
    >has a world that makes most sense (1 maf/1 town)
    >”lol you think i wouldn’t bus”
    >freaks out a lot after voting about getting it correct

    As Mafia (S5G8)
    >What the $%#! (over not dying)
    >Revoking his reads and going to reread everyone
    >Tells someone if they’re down they’re just sowing distrust against players, ‘argument on me is bs’
    >Compares game to previous years champs
    >Less short, pointed posts

    Disney World
    >OMGUS’s someone
    >tbh tonally feels off this game compared to (here), some very forced lines


    ---

    i noticed like really sharp polarized differences even though i was specifically aiming for it to be about approaches to LYLO it just made me feel like you weren't scum on a tonal level too
    pilica's read
    This town case still rings true.
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    Completed Post 9002 is not about Wiml, it is about HF. Post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10377)
    #9074 was after Alexa's #9002 and #9008, and it was at a time when the thread temperature was turning from tunneling Wiml to actively trying to solve him. In order to look townie it would make the most sense to engage with Wiml and look like he's trying to solve him.

    Boq didn't say his gut called Wiml town but was conflicted until #9090 which was after Wiml mentioned his dirty clear. Of course w!Boq didn't express fear because it would be legitimately outing for him to do so.

    To answer Boq: you reversed your read on Wiml before the thread consensus was inclined to townread Wiml. You were inclined not to want a Wiml/Katze cross in #9327 and #9441 when it was still likely going to happen.
    Post 9002 is not about Wiml, it is about HF. Post 9008 is Alexa saying "If you are a villager". The thread consensus of Wiml was not changing at this point to Wiml's favour, considering #9067

    I showed in post 9074 that I wanted to work together with Wiml. Both those posts are basically saying the same thing.

    I yelled out against Wiml voting Katze, though not first but fairly early. Here is my post: p#9164 p#9167
    I was inclined to not want a Wiml/Katze cross in p#9143 first btw.

    Are you even trying tbh
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    Completed Before I venture into a sort of "Why Thunal is...

    Before I venture into a sort of "Why Thunal is playing like scum today" I want to clarify why I am tinfoiling you Alexa to even start with, which is also why I understand why you are having difficulties not scum reading me.

    If you are a wolf, at worst you did some AtE and a really unnecessary move but it is finales. Whatever. I laughed and clapped my hands after realising that Katze flipped wolf. Because I got $%#!ing played. I was not even mad at Katze, or you, since I was still in that zone. It was finals worthy in a sense. High entertainment. Sure, I have negative emotions about it too that I wont go into, but, like. Yeah. G $%#!ing G I will try my best tomorrow tho.

    If Thunal is a wolf, these are wolf posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9958)
    Wiml, you know me and you know Alexa. What are the odds that both of us just happened to do all your towntells and approach the game exactly how you would expect us to approach it as town?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9967)
    My play this game would also be gross as a wolf in addition to baffling. I'd have to be faking things that I'd just never fake, and I wouldn't promise I was town.

    oh and same question: what was the me/Alexa wolf team doing with me not sure if I wanted to vote Wiml while Alexa wanted to and then Alexa being the first to sus me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9999)
    I absolutely never play this day with this much AtE as a wolf in the champs finals. I do everything I can to avoid going into that icky detail, and I think Alexa feels the same.
    And that would $%#!ing suck. So I would actually like it if Alexa is a wolf, but I dont think she is. And I dont think Alexa wants to think that these posts come from a wolf. She even agrees that Thunal would never fake or use these emotions against Wiml (this is about D4 posts but like, same-same)

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#9997)
    @Wiml you had a lot of really solid reasons to believe it's katze, we went through this on D4, and the emotional stuff from Thunal she would literally never fake or use against you like that
    So yeah I completely understand that Alexa prefers me being wolf. I prefer that she is wolf.

    I think Thunal knows what I am talking about here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10205)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10202)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10198)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10196)
    i tried to make it clear that i didn't want to be alignment read on what i said and i just got upset
    I am talking about what went down during the last hour. That was disgusting
    oh, yeah. trusttells are bad and should not be allowed (i don't think they are). i've also claimed that i've trust-told as mafia though, so i would not consider it clearing in itself, but i feel for katze as i know that can be hard to combat as wolf

    also boq/thunal i will read your long posts shortly
    In my defense I didn't trust tell. A trust tell is something that holds over a pattern of games and while I understand you being upset by my play at EoD Boq it was a last resort, I honestly didn't know what else to say and I at least hope we can stay on good terms after this game. I'm sorry that my play upset you and maybe I could have done something differently, I'm open to feedback.
    I think this is a wolf who knows she $%#!ed up with the AtE. I really hope that I am wrong about this Thunal, but I don't think I am tbh.
    Now to some wolfy posts tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9250)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#9243)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9241)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#9240)
    i don't think that's anything what thunal said though
    It is the first line
    "I wish the game would end on a personal level"

    That sort of thought eventually makes you complacent and lose wim
    oh i mean yeah, but she was saying she needs to do everything in her power, which IMO if she's town is a good/correct mindset and how i feel too
    i'm $%#!ing exhausted and i would've had a party if i died regardless of who the wolf team is but i want to play today as optimally as possible and spend all the time i can tomorrow solving
    I was so badly hoping to get NKed and I spent effort yesterday specifically trying to get wolves to kill me.
    I think this is perfomative. Why would town!Thunal think that, regardless of her effort, that she'd go before Hornet or even Alexa at this point? Scum trying to look like town basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9942)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9937)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9931)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9926)
    I think my posts about being against you voting Kat is anti wolf wincon. Mostly because I think I would strongarm this day more than that.
    I think it is anti wolf wincon to let Pilica die.
    I think it is anti wolf wincon to actually start suspecting Kat there tbh
    it was pro wolf-wincon to try to start a Wiml CFD so Pilica would be the easy designated lylo mislim.
    No, Pilica was town reading me and I would look pretty damn bad doing that when I had stated that she was 100% correct on her meta read of me
    That would doom the $%#! outta me tbh

    so that is another anti- wolf wincon
    Nope, wrong. You were consistently called villagery while everyone alive had Pilica as suspicious. You knew you'd get Pilica easily if she was alive in lylo.
    This is both a wolfy and tilting post. And no this is not about having an opinion I disagree with. This is correcting me on what I think and Thunal has no business saying this. You can say "I dont believe you", and all that stuff. But "Nope, wrong"? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9959)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#9953)
    speaking of different play wtf were the boq/katze wolf team planning on doing coming into this phase if they were at the bottom of the poe the entire D5?
    @Wiml Misliming you. Katze and Boq both wanted that.
    Here is the lie post, that is extremely wolfy. Before we start, I just want to double-check with Merriam Webster about that word. Thunal said "no it is not lying, it is a false statement". Ok ok lets look:

    lie verb (2)
    \ ˈlī \
    lied; lying\ ˈlī-​iŋ \
    Definition of lie (Entry 3 of 6)
    intransitive verb

    1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
    She was lying when she said she didn't break the vase.
    He lied about his past experience.
    2: to create a false or misleading impression
    Statistics sometimes lie.
    The mirror never lies.
    Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie

    Oh look at that. Turns out "lie" = "untrue statement". What a fantastic pointless argument to construct and waste time with instead of just admitting that it is a lie.

    So why is this lie extremely wolfy? Well, lets look at Thunal's defence on the matter:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10345)

    Then I guess we have different definitions of what constitutes working with someone and me not considering some of the things you thought were working with me as working with me was a misunderstanding.

    Wolves very rarely lie about easily verifiable things. And you've played for 10 years so surely you know this. "Why are you making false statements?" Because I'm human.
    I also think she wrote somewhere that it was F5 cross so ofc she doesnt have time to verify and stuff

    So yes, lets talk about my ten years of experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9959)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#9953)
    speaking of different play wtf were the boq/katze wolf team planning on doing coming into this phase if they were at the bottom of the poe the entire D5?
    @Wiml Misliming you. Katze and Boq both wanted that.
    My ten years of experience tells me that this is a wolfy lie. Wiml is about clearing me and Katze as a team. It is F5 cross eod. You jump in and spread a a false statement, an untrue statement, creating a misleading impression of me at a time where there is not much room to fact check, to influence Wiml's decision based on something untrue. And you are right, you are just a human. In a vacuum it isn't wolfy. But this lie put in a high intensity context added with doubling down on you speaking the truth, even continuing to do so at sod. That is wolfy. Because it shows that you are not making an honest statement. I think the majority of mafia players know that wolves will try a lot of things to influence town's decision-making during a high intensity time to get what they (wolves) want.

    It is very opportunistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10179)
    Katze's unwavering shield of Boq d6 also sets them up for an f5 win because if Boq stays top town and has me as wolf then alexa/Wiml will be more inclined to follow Boq's suspicion than if Boq were less consensus town.
    Katze's unwavering shield of me sets me up to burn in a F3. Your unwavering shield of Alexa sets you up to win a F3 tbh.
    This also shows that Thunal agrees with me that it would have been +ev for wolf me with Katze to vote first tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10281)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10278)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10275)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#10271)
    this is the loss in trying to play optimally by writing a case and stuff instead of snap voting.
    At the same time Thunal, this might be where I misread you because what you are talking about is my final reason to think you are wolf and I will expand on that.

    This post of yours implies that I was accepting death/at least waiting to see who I wanted to try convince. But I think I made it super clear in my early posts that I would keep fighting and my very first post, which was the first in this day, was exactly that.

    So like.
    Those aren't incompatible at all. In fact, you fighting means you're going to look for someone you have the highest chance of convincing that you're town and then try to convince them.
    Idk maybe you would roll over here as town if you were in my shoes but I wont.
    I am going to post my case now Thunal.

    If you are town, please try to think that I am town too during this. During the Night I had decided that I wanted to vote you after posting it, I have a killer meme if I am correct, but I want to be sure.

    I am town and I am going to vote you unless something drastically changes.
    Tho I suppose if I am wrong, scum!Alexa would vote me either way so that probably does not matter much to you either tbh


    I do take responsibility if town loses. It is my fault that we are in this position. It is my fault that Katze was not yeeted sooner. I am sorry.
    Of course I'm not and I'm literally saying that you are fighting.

    For you if you were town I don't think the choice between Alexa/me should be trivial, whereas from my point of view you look a heck of a lot wolfier than Alexa. I don't see a lot of active solving and seriously considering a world where Alexa is scum whereas from town!you's POV this is a consideration that you should be looking into and engaging with Alexa with.
    I am scum read by Thunal for not considering Alexa. This is wolf salt tbh. It takes Alexa explaining to Thunal why she is town for Thunal to switch foot and lecture me about why Alexa should be obvi town from my town perspective. lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9971)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#9964)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#9959)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#9953)
    speaking of different play wtf were the boq/katze wolf team planning on doing coming into this phase if they were at the bottom of the poe the entire D5?
    @Wiml Misliming you. Katze and Boq both wanted that.
    Lmao no?
    Let me remind you.
    I was the one person here VOCALLY AGAINST Wiml vs Kat cross.

    I reversed my Wiml read. I wrote posts why I thought Wiml was town.
    BEFORE the cross.
    I had Wiml as second town.
    BEFORE the cross.
    That was after Alexa and Wiml were turning against me. You realized I was a more viable mislim than Wiml.
    And this is also not really true, or excuse me- this is creating another misleading impression and ignoring the context that came from my Thunal read. I think the post where I conclude that Thunal is the likeliest wolf with all three of Alexa, Kat and Wiml is a good post tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#10074)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#10070)
    if Thun is a wolf surely she wants to go deep for personbal reasons?
    Absolutely! I would have wanted to be the deepest so I could win individually.
    and now you literally are the deepest wolf tbh! Congratulations tbh!
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    Completed So to get this straight Thunal Did I or did I...

    So to get this straight Thunal

    Did I or did I not, oppose Wiml/Katze shot because everyone else was doing that? I cant really keep up with the narratives you are spinning. Both 9074 and 9090 show no sense of fear and are about the same thing ("I wanna work with you if you are town"), and 9074 happens before Wiml mentions that dirty clear.
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    Completed and to be fair, during that eod, Alexa did try to...

    and to be fair, during that eod, Alexa did try to solve me, or at least interact with me and understand what I was doing. Whereas Thunal had the pitchfork ready tbh.
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    Completed the problem i am having rn is that i am thinking,...

    the problem i am having rn is that i am thinking, what if thunal is a villager and just stubbornly death tunnelling me and Alexa is relaxing there.

    But it would be pretty cruel of Alexa to do so. I think she would be able to say to Thunal "meh $%#! this Boq is wolf" and theyd vote me.

    And her eod play yesterday doesnt make sense with Kat.

    Okay yes, Thunal is the wolf between them tbh.
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    Completed I love wolfing and I was super excited about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10357)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#1176)

    ye i was a cohost of it, it was chaotic rolemadness bull$%#! and boq was a wolf who was fairly suspected D1 but ended up endgaming

    but like, wolves missed two consecutive nightkills, one wolf died to a PGO which also outted a second wolf, boq was in scumchat not at all having a good time

    i think him randing W here would look more like how i looked in early D1 of dragonvale where i was just kinda... dead inside? while his memeing felt kinda subpar once i realized he was memeing at midnight and still giving off some solid posting i kinda just stopped caring about that and decided it made him a likely villager
    @Boquise didn't you mention at one point that you enjoyed being wolf?

    (also if you're trying to conserve posts you don't need to reply to this right away, i'm just fully going through katze spew and noting any questions i have)
    I love wolfing and I was super excited about that wolf rand. The game was a super feels bad man though, because whilst we were kicking butt during the day and had two scum being "cleared", our NK was prevented two nights in a row. Which $%#!ed us. We did not have any strongarm and town had several protectives. And on top of it all, Chandelure was killed because she targeted Wiggles with a jailkeep or something, but he had activated his passive Veteran ability (anyone who targets him dies). A lot of arguments happened about action order, Misty almost wanted to give up, and due to Chandelure being killed, Marl was outed.

    Meanwhile town was sad and down in the lumps and it was a feels bad man thing. The game just kept going and going and going.
    But I found my WIM eventually! Even though it was annoying and feels bad to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#10361)
    EOD5 Boq on Pilica -
    P#7758 his vote is on Pilica
    P#7769 most wants Pilica chopped
    P#7871 has one thing making him pause on Pilica
    P#8248 Pilica's tough
    P#8261 idg what Pilica is doing if she's wolf
    P#8320 Pilica seems to know how to read me 100% (tbh i thought this was towny at the time but could also be something manipulative)
    P#8361 unvoting in case of shenanigans
    >notes screaming how towny katze is too
    P#8547 doesn't think Pilica/katze are aligned as wolves
    P#8652 is voting Pilica but realizes it's complacent
    P#8692 'if Pilica flips wolf i will look terrible' @Boquise why did you think this?
    P#8858 Pilica sounds towny
    P#8862 im going to get drunk in a sewer if pilica flips wolf
    P#8857 'Pilica if you're scum
    like $%#!'
    P#8905 the Pilica yeet was disgusting

    @Boquise what was going through your mind at the time in more detail? Why didn't you do anything to try to change the direction of the yeet?
    My thought process was that at first, Pilica was wolf because of poe and because of that post I am quoting in 7758. Pilica had not done much aside from town reading me, shading Wiml (based on my case). I thought it was a pocket.

    I start to critically read Pilica in 7871. I might be wrong and stuff. Pilica's play does not equal to how I expect her playing a finale as scum, since she loves the scum rand. Her game plan is just.. bad if wolf. And though I voted Pilica, I thought how it was like any yeet where a town in the poe is misyeeted (complacent). I think that I would look horrible if Pilica flips wolf for the same reason Katze flips wolf. She completely stuck herself to me and I know how other town reacts when that happens. It made me paranoid. Like, I expected to be death tunnelled if she flipped wolf, which is what I am being here.

    And it makes me irritated that I did not think about this with Katze yesterday. But I was so into the whole you/Thunal thing and f5 eods are stressful.

    My thought process during that whole eod was like $%#!fuckfuck$%#! pilica sounds town, i need to do something, this doesnt make sense, but what if i am wrong and like misclear her, then i will be scum read and I will be screwed tomorrow. I also would want that wolf pelt if she IS a wolf. And like, I am usually wrong and stuff.

    I do wish that I tried to stop her yeet more. I did try though. During that eod I voted Wiml. I thought he had made some wolfy posts and I was working up my courage to vote him again. I talked about this with you during that eod.

    The Pilica yeet was disgusting because we were complacent in a finale.
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    Completed I have only slept for 15 hours total the last...

    I have only slept for 15 hours total the last five days so will try to be as coherent as possible.

    Why I am so townie,
    or, how I am a hero, a visionary and, excuse my language, a damn good gentleman tbh


    An essay written by B. Bookcase "tbh" Bosquee

    Disclaimer, this essay includes self-meta and you might wonder how that works when I have said that I dislike self-meta in this game. I have made a meme to make it more easily accessable.



    Chapter 1 - My mentality,
    The story of a young Boq growing up in a poor Stockholm suburb in the 1920s tbh


    Lets start with how I began my game at D1. At sod1 I just try to meme and vibe, but also solve. I ask Thunal a question on a read I find bad and I do that to get a solve on her. However the thread leaders dislike me and I don't feel like I fit in in the town core. I have missed the train yet again. This is something that negatively affects me and makes me meme less. Anyway. I try to form reads and my reads are formed by looking at how people treat me. This is based on me knowing I am town so I look how players act towards a town player, if it is scummy etc.

    The thing that makes me townie here is how I approach sods and this D1 in general. I want to be at the major players' table but I am left in the dust. This completely enwraps my mind and I keep looping about how I do not want to repeat past games. This is not the approach I have as wolf. I simply do not care about this as wolf and it is not theatrics that is helping me, but I keep falling back to it.

    My first scum reads are based on how people act to me, as I stated. I make self-centred reads and react. This can be seen when I react to Alexa and Vandy shading me the same way during D1. I also care about my posts being read and both meme and get passive-aggressive as I feel shunned. As a wolf, I dont care.

    At the same time I think my early pushes are good? This is why I scum read Wisdom. I legitimately think this is wolfy p#1094

    Like I think the best way to describe my D1 is rattled.
    My scum reads kinda dont work, but I decide to town cases on Katze, Gorf, Alexa and Wiml. Yes, Katze, and I will return to that point in a later chapter. This is something I have never done as scum afaik tbh. Not this excessively at least.

    During both D2 and D3 I am still caught in this "this is a repeat of past games help" but I think one really good argument to see that my mentality is townie and not scummy is actually around D6. Mostly because honestly, it is super hard to recite my mindset in detail. When everyone was being a downer, I was being happy. Or at least, not really sad, and I showed that in posts. I tried to cheer people up and said I liked the challenge and stuff. Wolves want to mimic the tone of players when the thread is being sad. They do not want to come off as happy because they are scared about looking bad. This can be seen in Didney Worl when I make sure to have my public mindset similar to the thread's. Here I don't.

    Another mentality that does not fit with a wolf is how I approached today. Alexa wanted me to immediately town case myself, but I refuse. I pick fights with both of you instead and say I want to do things in the order I want, not anyone else. And clearly, regardless of the alignment you think I have, I havent given up. So my wolf plan here is to just do my own thing and try to solve? How does that help me? Being able to read the thread state is something I can do as both alignments. I appease as scum because being agreeable is generally better.

    The town plan I stated was "I want to find the last wolf, make a last solve, play the game to the fullest tbh!"
    I dont see my wolf plan. Like, I am not even trying to set doubt in any of you two because I am not saying who I scum read. I am just saying I wanna solve. I start arguing with you guys. That is not a wolf agenda.


    Chapter 2 - Partnership
    I am not like the other power wolves tbh


    This will answer Alexa's post/question about powerwolf tbh
    I do understand that it looked like I power wolfed with Katze, but that is not how I powerwolf. I dont think I have ever strongly town read a wolf partner before. Not to this extent. That is simply not how I play. But I want to give attention to one post I made at eod1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2079)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2063)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2057)
    @Vandyfan402 was your post to me about paying the bills like a sort of shade or scum read?
    Kinda annoyed to be given a “I peaced out read, when I was actively not doing my job at points today to play this game on my phone.”
    Thats slightly villagery
    This happens close to eod and I have my vote on Vandy. If you believe that I am scum with Vandy, I think you also believe that I am bussing Vandy, and that I understand that Vandy is going down. There is literally no reason for me to do this post here as a wolf partner of Vandy. This post shows that I do not have any TMI about Vandy and am just confused, same goes with a post above in the quote, where I ask Vandy a question.

    Regarding Katze, as I said, I do not town read my partners that hard as scum. This can be proven in my wolf games. S4G11, S5G8, Didney Worl, and even the game I played where I got yeeted at D1. I dont do that because I am always afraid of looking partnery. In Didney Worl, I was one of the few people who actually pressed Marl before he was "cleared". I voted both Marl and Misty. But at the mylo, whilst I had Misty as a potential wolf, I never bring up that many arguments and I just home into one town player. In this game's F5, I look at all the team possibilities. I push every player alive at that point. I make a big post about it.

    Hell, in Throne Mash (where I was sorta second mafia alignment) I go into a 1v1 against my last teammate to get one of us cleared.

    Finally, lets pretend that I am wolf with Katze. Firstly, I still think that I will be the one to vote first of us. Because I have this massive town cred. I think I have a much bigger chance to win a cross against a town than Katze. Secondly, lets pretend I dont. During eod, it looked like, imo, that Katze was going down due to the massive AtE pressure on Wiml. I had a conversation with Alexa at the time about wifom. I think I would have walked back on Katze and voted them at that point to keep my town cred. It would create a better thread state for me regardless tbh. When Alexa made her vote, there was nothing really stopping me from voting Katze too in a desperate attempt.

    But I did not. Just like how I stayed on Vandy, despite saying "man this is a bit villagery huh". Going back to that, you can also see my thought process there. I react like this to a Gorf post:
    p#2488
    p##2504

    Meanwhile, prior to this, I say it is shady that people are throwing out Pilica scum reads:
    p#1953 and p#2048

    There is no wolf agenda at all here.

    Another Katze point is that I brought up how Vandy might have TMI read Katze as wolf. If mine and Katze's supposedly wolf plan is to just buddy up forever, then that is counter-productive to that plan. Like it isnt even a lowkey post. I put effort into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8269)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#649)
    I woke up late so I don’t really have time to play before work, but I was able on catch up to the thread. I think over night Katze, Gorf, and Wisdom got townier. Wiml stayed the same. Boq seems scummier. JC also got townier, but him writing a post about not locking anyone in, and then seconding Katzes I’m never voting on HF is weird.
    So some things about Vandy. He barely interacts with some of us. I became scummier for ??? reasons, Wiml is scum too but there are no specific posts. Later he says that there should be 1 scum in me, Soneji, Wiml. Soneji flipped town and I know I am town. The question is if he puts his scummate there, especially since Wiml made it clear in the thread that he is feeling miserable about the poe? Probably a weak reason in this stage of the game.

    However, Vandy starts town reading Katze even more. And as far as I can see, he hasn't interacted with any Katze post not mentioned Katze. It takes Vandy to the end of D1 to talk directly to Katze and about Katze. Same with Wiml.

    He hardly talks directly to Thunal and Alexa too, to be fair, but I think he is talking about them more. I don't really know why people have iirc cleared Thunal for Vandy saying she is new/polarised when it was also agreed that we shouldn't read into his EOD talk. Need to refresh who brought that up the first time, that that spews Thunal town

    He also reacts sarcastic to Pilica's case on him (similarly to how he reacted sarcastically to me saying that I will stay on him).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2387)
    Man, so glad Pilica came in and dropped the surprising case on me out of nowhere.
    Also a thing is that whilst Vandy sussed me and Wiml, he never voted any of us and instead went for Hornet. He only voted Wiml when Wiml self-voted I can't really decide what that means. Let's look at the read lists.

    I am going to write in TOWN on the flipped town and on me and probably town on Hornet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#432)
    alexa- lean town
    Boquise-null Town
    Gorf-null Town
    Holyflare- null leaning town Town
    Hornet-null Probably town
    JohnCarter- leaning town Town
    katze-leaning town
    Pilica-null
    Soneji-null Town
    The Sun Fan-leaning town Town
    Thunal33- town
    vanity- town Town
    Wiml- leaning scum
    Wisdom-null Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1240)
    Updated Reads list in order. AMA

    Town:
    Vanity Town
    Wisdom Town
    Katze

    Town Leans:
    Thunal
    Alexa
    TSF Town
    HF Town
    Soneji Town
    Gorf Town

    Null Leaning Town
    Boq Town

    True Null
    Pilica

    Scum Leans
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town
    JC Town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2047)
    3 PRs.
    Katze
    Alexa
    Thunal
    TSF Town
    Gorf Town
    Soneji Town
    Boq Town
    HF Town
    Wiml
    Hornet Probably town

    Who the $%#! knows with Pilica. Imagine having a read there.

    This is my ordered list for legacy
    Like previous of the bucket and Katze's fake claim, Vandy had Katze as lean town without any read.

    He did post why Alexa was town
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#411)
    Without doing any reading of her meta, I feel like Alexa voting for TSF there is more towny than not. Feels like a towny jump the gun
    and I think that JC's travel down to bottom poe and Vandy insisting on Hornet being scum (and pushing me slightly) shows that Vandy was more interested in pushing villagers than pushing scum.

    Katze travels up from leaning town, to pr town and then solidify as top town underneath PRs, without any visible progression.

    Alexa was town read by the whole thread so I get that a scum player can lazily town read her and be done with it. But there is a lack of progression and interest. I need to read this even more carefully to see his exact progression on Katze, Alexa and Thunal tbh.

    Because unless the team is exactly Wiml/Pilica, Vandy put at least 1 teammate up there in top town position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8272)
    The question is if Vandy would just put their scummate as top town without any sort of progression or at least write some post that explains that they're town tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8273)
    The obvious set-up here when Vandy was going down is to set-up two deep wolves which he succeeded with (unless Pilica is scum). Really trying to figure out why JC thinks Vandy would need to POE down a scummate at least once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8275)
    So JC writes this
    An interesting point i've noted is that the only time Vandy ever indulged Soneji/Boquise being in his bottom three was when he was absolutely forced to, when Hornet and I, for all intents and purposes, were considered lock V. And then he puts them both in.
    And I hold the information that I am town, so even when Vandy was forced to, he pushed villagers.

    JC continues
    His progression at the end goes to now scum-reading HF, who he probably felt resigned prior to the bottom quoted post "if I don't scum-read HF, maybe he'll back off". I would argue his bottom three (HF, Hornet, Wiml) are all forced to put at this point.
    HF and Wiml are added.
    So from my pov when Vandy is, as JC stated, forced to open the poe, he goes for me and Soneji, and then when he is forced to put out scum reads he goes for HF, Hornet and Wiml. The only player I either don't really know is town there is Wiml. However Vandy has had Wiml as a scum read ever since sod1.

    I can't really come to conclusions rn on this so would love input what this means tbh like gth I think it makes Wiml town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8278)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1147)
    Honestly thank Christ. 3 of the people I struggle to read.
    This is an interesting thing to say considering Katze has been a town for Vandy for the whole game and he has at this point barely interacted with Katze.

    So it is kinda fake. And well Vandy is confirmed wolf so. But still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1212)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#1209)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1207)
    I think that part of the issue with reading me based on my confidence is that I'm starting to get comfortable playing in this format, which has corresponded with the fact that I rolled mafia like 3/4 games. So I totally understand why people think it's my wolf meta, but it just isn't.
    Few questions.

    1. Do you think you've been under the radar?

    2. What posts do you think you've made that should make your alignment clear?

    3. Do you think you should be town read given your current content?

    If your answer to 3 is yes, then who has been displaying TMI for knowing you're town?
    1. Me personally? Yes. Conversation about me? No. If that makes sense.
    2. I think my reads on JC and Wiml are both alignment indicative, and tbh, I'm still a big fan of my JC read.
    3. I'm not opposed to people reading me town. I think Thunal and Wiml have come the closest to TMI'ing me potentially. It was even fine to read me towny for the Bucket stuff. But to make me top town is weird and reminds me of how I treated Nyth in SF2. Deciding I was gonna pick a towny post and scream from the rooftops how towny it was.
    And here it is interesting that Vandy says that both Thunal and Wiml have been TMIing him, but he only pushed Wiml and kept Thunal as top town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8281)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#328)
    Put that in your read pipe and smoke it
    Actually correction, this is directed to Katze.

    Uuuh

    Wolf shrug villa-reading a teammate
    Vs
    Wolf shrug villa-reading a villager?


    Katze pipe reads tbh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#8361)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#8359)
    boq since you're at 149 ill get to your time sensitive question when postcaps lift if you're still around?

    or i can answer it now if you wanna ask

    tbh
    $%#! it
    ##Unvote Pilica

    Unvoting in case of shenanigans

    @katze could you describe your thought process during the final hour of last eod? Like as detailed as you possibly can.



    ----
    I have some conclusions but I want to wait with revealing them tbh

    I am happy I am being town read for my sling of posts but I'd happier if they were also interacted with tbh (this is not directed to anyone specific and I know some of my posts have been interacted with tbh)


    These are independent solving of Vandy that leads me to start sussing Katze a little. I am alone in the thread when I did those posts. Then when I came back to the thread I began town reading Katze due to how the thread state was plus a post they made. I do return to this Vandy read later. At the same time, there is not really any big conclusion. I did all that solving... because? I did not try to bus here. It isnt distancing because my next posts after the last one I quoted are about how I town read Katze again. That is the lamest distancing attempt ever that I dismantle myself. Which I just dont do as a wolf.

    I also want to bring up that Katze was the one who really held me close to them and not the opposite during the F5 cross. There were lots of "Boq and I did that", "Boq and I are not doing this". I did not. I sent a heart and two memes to/about Katze. This should show that Katze was taking me down with them.

    These are just a few.
    p##9847
    p#9895
    p#9897
    p#9904
    p#9906
    p#9925
    p#9946
    p#9956
    p#9963
    p#9976


    Katze spends A LOT of their eod to just hardcore town read me. These are a few effects:
    -I get emotionally close to Katze because they are defending me and agreeing with my things. Katze never questions my read on Alexa. All this makes it really hard for me to re-evaluate at the moment because Katze seems to "get" me. If Katze survives and is teamed with Thunal, I will have a difficult time to vote them in the upcoming day.

    -Katze and I get comically super close in interactions. Like this is level 0 close. This is to drag me down through being associated with Katze. So when Katze died, I am completely $%#!ed.

    To believe that I am teamed with Katze, you have to believe that I as a wolf would be down to do this sort of play that I have never really done before. Knowing fully well how that it will backfire on me, and not vote Katze to help me keep some town cred the next day. All to win this F5? F5s can be lost and Katze town reading and defending me through a big chunk of the F5 cross does not move the game forward to a Thunal yeet. It only accomplishes moving Katze and I together. That is a stupid plan.

    You have to believe that I start on my own, case Vandy and end up sussing Katze just to walk back on it afterwards, and to start tinfoiling Vandy being villagerey as he is going to get yeeted. The only thing this shows is that I do not have TMI. This is not how I power wolf. This shows that I am a villager with a transparent thought process who keep re-evaluating his reads.


    Chapter 3 - F5 confidence
    The perspective of a lost soul tbh


    The point about this chapter is to counter the argument that my eod push was wolfy. It does require you to see things from my town pov.

    But first let's counter another argument. So I got my "weak read" on Alexa. I call it strong. This is basic rhetorics that town uses. You call something a confident read at first because it has a higher success to be followed. I believe both alignments do this and it is not wolfy. I have talked about this in spec chat tbh.

    Weak read does not mean it isnt a read. I do believe it. Aside from the posts of Alexa, which I at that time think show a wolf perspective, I am noticing that Katze does not want to cross with Alexa nor do they want to push there. They want to push Thunal. I feel really confident it is Kat/Alexa, though I am wavering on Katze a little. And I am wavering on Alexa enough to not vote. I have already shown my thought process here with Kat. It is annoying that both of you have said basically "yeh but it doesnt matter since you changed your read to Thunal". Like, that is just lazy play. Of course it matters. Is it theatre or real progression? It looks real to me and organic. I make several posts where I start to pressure Katze. Why would I even start pressuring Kat and start tinfoil them if our plan is to be best friends forever? I also made it clear that my strat was to see who Alexa would vote and solve after that to maybe catch 2 wolves. That should be in the last chapter but whatever lmao.

    Lets first look at the Alexa posts where I felt like she was only interested in engaging with Wiml and not interested in asking me questions (like Wiml did even tho I was not able to answer).

    p#9613
    p#9641
    p#9647

    The feeling I got was that I was getting pre-flipped tbh. It isnt the best, but it was how I felt which increased my confbias.

    Time to look at the buddy-buddy relationship of Alexa and Thunal.
    p#9690 - Alexa
    #9756 - Thunal (she read my whole post and only reacted to this, according to herself "because it was bad".
    p#9767 - Alexa
    p#9769 - Thunal
    p#9777 - Thunal
    p#9781 - Alexa
    p#9787 - Alexa
    p#9807 - Thunal
    p#9815 - Thunal
    p#9852 - Thunal says that there are interactions between her and Alexa that makes them never w/w. Interesting.
    p#9860 - Thunal
    p#9863 - Alexa
    p#9886 - Thunal ("no they arent")
    p#9887 - Alexa (I am not a wolf though and neither is Thunal)
    p#9892 - Thunal
    p#9916 - Alexa, defending an Alexa/Thunal team
    p#9929 - Alexa
    p#9931 - Thunal. Both Alexa and Thunal opposes my point around the same time. Made me feel like it was a tag team bury.
    p#9938 - Alexa
    p#9952 - Thunal
    p#9958 - Thunal, this looked super teamie from my pov
    p#9961 - Alexa
    p#9967 - Thunal. Thunal is town because according to herself it would be gross to fake these emotions.
    p#9970 - Alexa
    p#9995 - Thunal
    p#9997 - Alexa. Thunal is town because she would never fake these emotions.
    p#9999 - Thunal. Lol I $%#!ing love that I have to decide who of you two is the wolf tbh
    p#10033 - Thunal. "Alexa is town non-emotionally because..."
    p#10038 - Alexa. "Thunal is town non-emotionally because..."

    Like.
    These are just so partnery. Not all of them are scummy mind you.

    THIS IS JUST DEFENDING A TOWN READ!!!
    Like how Katze defended me?

    WE WERE IN SYNC AND AGREED!!!
    Just like I and Katze?

    The main diff is that I dont obsessively talk about why Katze is town at that cross. I talk about that I think Thunal and Alexa are scum.
    I was shaded today for not trying to solve Thunal/Alexa during the eod. But lmao right back at you.

    I dont think anyone can with a straight face claim that from a third party's pov, this is teamy. Of course I am going to look at it that way, just like how the town inside Thunal/Alexa thinks that I and Katze are scum because of how Katze just stuck themselves to me. The problem for me is that both of you stuck to each other. You both emotionally town read each other AND town read each other for the general approach. You both defend each other.

    From my pov, Wiml is town. I have had him as town for quite some time. I am left with Kat/Alexa/Thunal. Here I see two players blatantly teaming up with each other. Of course I will scum read this. And you cannot argue against it, because you scum read me for similar reasons. Why would I add any of you two in a Katze team at this point in time of the game when this happens?

    So I got duped by Katze, and one of you is duped by the other tbh.

    This is also why I do not bring you two to this F3. It doesnt matter that Wiml made up some team order at the last day. You two are emotionally town reading each other. There is no chance in hell that I will be able to break that as scum. Never.

    All I can hope for is that the town inside you guys can see this.

    Chapter 4 - Towncred
    And how to ruin friendships



    To believe I am scum, you will also believe that I ruined my town cred/being top town. For a level 0 push, where my partner aligns themselves to me like a tick. And to ruin relationships like these posts:

    p#8944
    p#8991
    p#9329
    p#9274

    Both of you hardcore town read me prior. I am being town read by Thunal for not jumping to conclusions. My game plan then is to jump to a conclusion on Alexa, who thinks I am the likeliest villager alive.

    Sure I would need to, perhaps, alienate one of you if I am wolf and about to cross (if I dont choose Wiml but thats unlikely since I have said Wiml is townie). Instead I choose to alienate both of you. That does not make sense as a wolf agenda. Not only do I completely ruin my town cred, but Katze is running amok saying that I am super villagerey. This does not happen.

    Chapter 3 and 4 shows why it is not weird for me to scum read both of Thunal/Alexa tbh.

    Chapter 5 - Conclusion


    I am not scum because my thought process has been pure and transparent through the whole game. I have shown lack of TMI with my wolf mates. I have approached this game in a manner that I do as town but not as a wolf. In my cases you can see that I re-evaluate since the reads are ever-changing, not constant and consistent. I try to challenge my own TSF read. I interact with TSF about it. My cases on Wisdom, Vanity and JC are not wolfy, two of the cases were agreed upon by the thread. I re-evaluate Pilica when I dont have to, protect her, and she finds me as town instantly all before that. Before we even interact. I even try to trap her when she was saying what her expectations are for my scum game and then walk back on it and town read her. I walked back my Katze reads back and right, but I have walked back every single read I have done in this game. I have resetted the walk back and walked into the read again and scum read the same person several times (Thunal). That shows townie thought. Not scum with agenda. I was completely duped by Katze and sent to this F3 just to suffer without a $%#!ing backup plan. I. Am. Town.
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