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    Completed ggs was hopeful for end but alas

    ggs

    was hopeful for end but alas
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    Completed No no no I thought this would Chelsea at 3 I’m...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3097)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3086)
    ##Vote Chelsea

    I’m fine with rand
    Ugh, I don't like this
    No no no I thought this would Chelsea at 3 I’m $%#!ing dumb
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    Completed Yep and there’s the Mak vote

    Yep and there’s the Mak vote
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    Completed Oh $%#! I thought it was 3/3

    Oh $%#! I thought it was 3/3
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    Completed Chelsea I’m fine with rand

    ##Vote Chelsea

    I’m fine with rand
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    Completed This just feels like straight wifom How good...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3064)
    Woopens if you're town and me and Psycho are Tvt we lose like 9/10 times here I think this 1v1 getting solved today helps more than you dying
    This just feels like straight wifom

    How good is the mu scum game; specifically how good are they at infiltrating eod town core live posting?
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    Completed Part of me also just doesn’t really want to have...

    Part of me also just doesn’t really want to have to live through another phase :/
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    Completed Like what gives me pause about scum!Chelsea is...

    Like what gives me pause about scum!Chelsea is that I just feel like she would be playing better. Scum!Claire feels like the duh read here.
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    Completed Why do you have to show up only so close to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3064)
    Woopens if you're town and me and Psycho are Tvt we lose like 9/10 times here I think this 1v1 getting solved today helps more than you dying
    Why do you have to show up only so close to deadline :///////
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    Completed My gut says town will be in a better if I die...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3060)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3055)
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3053)
    Why haven't you self-pressed
    Self hammering is lame tbh
    O I meant voting Ria to tie it up

    I got paranoid about something but I think it's unlikely you would be.. deliberately misrepresenting your voting intentions here or Logic would assume you didn't intend to self-pres
    My gut says town will be in a better if I die than if psycho dies. I mean I guess that’s a lot of faith to put in here but ehhhhh
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    Completed Uhh if I’m wrong about Chelsea we just lose and I...

    Uhh if I’m wrong about Chelsea we just lose and I don’t feel great about it given the depth to which I thought it
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    Completed Ah $%#! let me think

    Ah $%#! let me think
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    Completed Self hammering is lame tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3053)
    Why haven't you self-pressed
    Self hammering is lame tbh
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    Completed Oh yeah, and any thoughts on pluff? In my eyes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3048)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3045)
    @Chelsea scale 1-10 what’s been your motivation for this game?
    Day 1: 9
    Day 2: 7
    Day 3: 6
    Day 4: 4
    Day 5: Still a 4.
    Oh yeah, and any thoughts on pluff? In my eyes with you and her it’s close to a 1v1
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    Completed Do not feel confident arguing this at lylo So...

    Do not feel confident arguing this at lylo

    So I guess we have 20 minutes
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    Completed Honestly I do think my lynch at this point would...

    Honestly I do think my lynch at this point would be best for game state
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    Completed And then what’s your reasoning for ria again? Why...

    And then what’s your reasoning for ria again? Why has it held up in lieu of everything that’s happened since then (did it fluctuate at any point?)
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    Completed Chelsea scale 1-10 what’s been your motivation...

    @Chelsea scale 1-10 what’s been your motivation for this game?
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    Completed Oh yes @Claire the above question

    Oh yes @Claire the above question
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    Completed I can’t tell if Claire would be seriously trying...

    I can’t tell if Claire would be seriously trying to pocket me or not. If she shows up I really would like to know why she seemed to firmly townread me.

    And to reiterate, I think given the player list and events of D1-3, I don’t think a team of Mak/Claire would have the chance to take control, if the argument is for their rep. D1 they were both under heat, D2 was dominated by supa and they would operate more subtly, and D3 was just a crapshoot all around except for amy/supa/pb
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    Completed Sorry if that’s crude :/

    Sorry if that’s crude :/
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    Completed Does Claire have everyone by the balls or...

    Does Claire have everyone by the balls or something?
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    Completed Logic any thoughts so far? I consider your slot...

    @Logic any thoughts so far? I consider your slot locktown
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    Completed supa2 take note of this discussion if you make it...

    @supa2 take note of this discussion if you make it to tomorrow
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    Completed $%#! it, cheap-o town clears are overpowered,...

    $%#! it, cheap-o town clears are overpowered, it’s Claire
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    Completed Ah man there’s so many good memes to respond to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3021)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3005)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3000)
    Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling my posts anti-spew. Would town Makaze really think this?
    I actually don't have a problem with him calling your posts anti-spew because it did feel like you were just throwing stuff out to look solvey and confuse the game as you wait for your inevitable yeet. I was actually going to say that your suggested option of just not saying anything isn't really anti-spew, because spew means you're saying things. If you're not talking, you're not spewing, anti- or otherwise.

    Do you think town!Makaze would have a different take on your recent posts?
    Ok idk, like I guess I’m not the one reading my posts so I’m not entirely sure how they come across, but I feel like there has to be enough for people to pick up on a thought process at least. Idk I guess I’ve been called out for being hard to follow in the past.

    I think he would factor in the tonality of my posts more. He uses tone reads on everyone else and I know my tone is town, but iirc he hasn’t shown that he’s factored that into his case. Like him using his own doc claim to shade mine; I think town!Makaze would be able to look at that objectively, also given my explanation for why I did it.
    I'll say I do agree that they don't seem to be considering any towniness with you, and they have done the same with me. And you make a good point about them not seeming to consider tone with you, because he did use tone as the primary reason for writing off Supa and Logic. Oh, I'm sorry. Paperblade who is now played by Logic.

    For what it's worth, I don't think it looks like you don't have a thought process to follow like others. To me it just felt like you were spinning wheels and going around in circles.
    Ah man there’s so many good memes to respond to this with, it’s too bad I’m not mobile :/
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    Completed If it was really just sully/Claire, then that’s...

    If it was really just sully/Claire, then that’s like, lmao
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    Completed And what was your stance on Claire?

    And what was your stance on Claire?
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    Completed I feel like your depth of thought is what gave me...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3010)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3006)
    Hey @jumpluff! I feel like you’re generally a nice person and so you can pocket people naturally. Do you play towards as scum?
    Ya pocketing people as scum is my specialty actually sorry and I tend to play a pretty pleasant scum game too. I get aggressive as both alignments but only by accident. There are some emotional subtleties that wouldn't come into play here

    I don't think I'm out of my wolf range essentially because having to play with so much less information about the game is like making $%#! up until it works. I think my depth of thought has probably exceeded that of my wolf game. I haven't played wolf since actually 2017 tho so I don't think I would be doing this competently
    I feel like your depth of thought is what gave me pause about your response to my sully case. What else do you think is hard to replicate in your town game. Also what’s your quick stance on Makaze rn?
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    Completed Or certainly not tend towards the explanation...

    Or certainly not tend towards the explanation that if he did it, then me doing is reason to scumread me. I think he’d judge as null.

    Tbf I feel like I’m picking at smaller things against the grand scheme of Makaze, just cause they are directly relevant to me and I’m not going to read everything he posts. My motivation largely comes from PoE, and this is just makes more sense than the alternatives
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    Completed Ok idk, like I guess I’m not the one reading my...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3005)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3000)
    Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling my posts anti-spew. Would town Makaze really think this?
    I actually don't have a problem with him calling your posts anti-spew because it did feel like you were just throwing stuff out to look solvey and confuse the game as you wait for your inevitable yeet. I was actually going to say that your suggested option of just not saying anything isn't really anti-spew, because spew means you're saying things. If you're not talking, you're not spewing, anti- or otherwise.

    Do you think town!Makaze would have a different take on your recent posts?
    Ok idk, like I guess I’m not the one reading my posts so I’m not entirely sure how they come across, but I feel like there has to be enough for people to pick up on a thought process at least. Idk I guess I’ve been called out for being hard to follow in the past.

    I think he would factor in the tonality of my posts more. He uses tone reads on everyone else and I know my tone is town, but iirc he hasn’t shown that he’s factored that into his case. Like him using his own doc claim to shade mine; I think town!Makaze would be able to look at that objectively, also given my explanation for why I did it.
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    Completed Hey jumpluff! I feel like you’re generally a nice...

    Hey @jumpluff! I feel like you’re generally a nice person and so you can pocket people naturally. Do you play towards as scum?
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    Completed You still didn’t answer the question. How do you...

    You still didn’t answer the question. How do you as town think me dumping my thoughts is anti-spew when you know there are easier ways to anti-spew. Why does this not overrule your thought that I would play dead? Even if I wouldn’t play dead as scum, how are the posts even trying to save my prospective buddies?
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    Completed The idea that Claire/Makaze would have more...

    The idea that Claire/Makaze would have more control now I think is what has to give wrt the remaining associatives.

    @Makaze please tell me precisely how my thought dump “does not make sense” and “is full of contradictions”. Why does town!Makaze here not even make the effort to entertain how there is a consistent thought process to the posts
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    Completed Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling...

    Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling my posts anti-spew. Would town Makaze really think this?
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    Completed I’m going back and forth on Sully/Claire now. My...

    I’m going back and forth on Sully/Claire now. My gut is telling me it’s not Sully/pluff and that Makaze’s case on Sully is on the same order as mine, where it’s just, townies do scummy things all the time, and it’s easy to manipulate that
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    Completed You didn’t actually answer the latter question

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2988)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2974)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2883)
    @Makaze, I feel like you hold back thoughts on my slot (and probably in general by extrapolation), but would you mind sharing if that’s true
    @Makaze

    In the midst of a break
    I already answered that in P#2965, but I'm not sure what you're asking if that's not the answer.

    If there's something I'm forgetting I've probably already said it in one of my arguments throughout the game.

    P#2093 is my case on you and your reaction on D2, first case is you look back with Athena and second is why I thought it was scummy to ask about my scumgame when you supposedly read my case on you yesterday
    Why you work with Sully in P#2386/P#1585
    PoE analysis in P#2422
    Answered your question in P#2423
    My case on you today in #2522 looks at why you look bad with fjp too and that you make sense in a Chelsea world
    At first I thought you couldn't work with ari because of your shade earlygame, but my iso of Psycho made me reconsider
    I think you work in both worlds and locked in on voting me because you have no option but to loosen poe

    I feel like no one responded to my Psycho case unless you count woopons and all he said was "It's easy to fake wagonomics but idk". Psycho has completely dropped their wagonomics case after I called them on it and no one is seeing it as weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2937)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2932)
    Psycho, what’s your solve order again?
    You/Chelsea > Logic > Mak/jump

    I'm fairly certain scum is just you and Chelsea, and if we're wrong on you, I'm even more certain of Chelsea.

    I thought PB looked pretty good on D1 and their start to d2 felt incredibly motivated, but Logic's presence has been less than inspiring so far. Their slot's placement on the fjp wagon is solid bus territory, too.

    If I'm wrong on the first three, then the Mak tinfoil comes back on almost immediately, and I get paranoid that I'm letting myself get snowed by jump for basically being around when I am. I think Mak has bus equity considering the gamestate flow, and this pivot focus on me instead of woopons feels hella opportunistic. jump also doesn't look great for sort of buddying me and fueling your wagon after defending you quite strongly early this phase.

    But in all honesty, if you or Chelsea flip today and you're green, I'm looking at the other three closer before I just stick with my confident solve.
    I might have missed it but why did you put jump back in the PoE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2941)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2940)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2937)
    You/Chelsea > Logic > Mak/jump

    I'm fairly certain scum is just you and Chelsea, and if we're wrong on you, I'm even more certain of Chelsea.

    I thought PB looked pretty good on D1 and their start to d2 felt incredibly motivated, but Logic's presence has been less than inspiring so far. Their slot's placement on the fjp wagon is solid bus territory, too.

    If I'm wrong on the first three, then the Mak tinfoil comes back on almost immediately, and I get paranoid that I'm letting myself get snowed by jump for basically being around when I am. I think Mak has bus equity considering the gamestate flow, and this pivot focus on me instead of woopons feels hella opportunistic. jump also doesn't look great for sort of buddying me and fueling your wagon after defending you quite strongly early this phase.

    But in all honesty, if you or Chelsea flip today and you're green, I'm looking at the other three closer before I just stick with my confident solve.
    PB is town apparently for reasons I shouldn’t discuss, and I guess you can trust like all the flipped town, cause he has a pretty distinct meta

    Also we don’t have time to be wrong twice just fyi
    Fully aware, which is why I'm considering the rest of my solve more seriously if you flip wrong (as I don't think a Chelsea wagon happens today at this point).
    For everyone seeing this, please read my argument P#2778

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2969)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2961)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2957)
    I promise if you're town, I'll take your words into consideration. I won't just let it be ignored.

    And yeah, I'm around, I'm just also doing my usual "waking up" routines and whatnot. Feel free to ask me anything.
    Feel like I should ask you about pluff but not exactly sure what since I really only skimmed your interactions. Tbh the more I sit here the more I want to switch sully with claire.

    I guess for starters are you familiar with jumpluff’s meta?
    Not at all. I'm aware of their name, but I don't think I've ever read any of their games, and pretty sure I never played with them.

    My main reasons for writing off jumpluff are A) Sully's d3 vote on Chelsea looks like a townie joining two other townies to try and go against the mounting misyeet on Bartozio. Being on the side of my slot helps a lot, too, as that gives me two confirmed town perspectives that was thinking along the same lines to some extent.

    And B) Our interactions over night made me feel like we were operating on a similar wavelength and both earnestly trying to solve the game. Same with Supa.
    I'm going to point back to my argument in P#2778 about he said it was jumpluff but has changed to calling it Sully after I called you out on it but never responded to it in P#2749.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2973)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2965)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2883)
    @Makaze, I feel like you hold back thoughts on my slot (and probably in general by extrapolation), but would mind sharing if that’s true
    I pretty much said everything in my Psycho read
    I agree with supa that you're speaking without actually solving right now, and posting every thought you have despite contradictions makes more sense as anti-spew than leaving a legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2891)
    Also I guess I should clarify some things I’ve done

    -the doc cc: this was directly in response to Mak saying doc had to reason to cc; at the time I thought he was openly role fishing (wasn’t aware that was mechanically correct) and did that to bring attention to that, the furthest I really that about it beyond that was that it wouldn’t mess things up for real doc since I didn’t believe the doc claim at the time

    In general I’ve not been reading posts super in depth and so I totally misfired on Bart/let Athena fly under the radar/gave FJP too much of a pass for his thread entrances (they’re too fun!) and so that’s why I didn’t really mention any of them
    That doesn't explain why not mentioning them is a result of not reading in depth. Why would it make you make you misfire on town but completely ignore scum?

    Quote Originally Posted by supa2 (#2907)
    Woopons I'd enjoy the tornado of content on D1 but it's now D4 and I feel these sporadic moments aren't really telling me to anything. Like yeah you're doing something but right now you can see players who are at a different stage of the game where their PoEs are determined and it's less time to think about all these caustic decisions we could've made and instead what's in front of us. I need you to condense your thoughts and tell me how you feel about things as if you had a gun to your head. Because right now you kinda do and you're gonna be the lynch, so if you're town just give me clarity
    This is where I'm at. He's been on every team I've had because he contradicts himself and makes sense with everyone. I feel like this is how he's played all game, and he isn't changing, he's just dialed it to 11. I could see it if he was coming to conclusions but he's contradicting himself constantly

    His POE doesn't make sense as town progression

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2908)
    Re-examining Makaze, yeah his tone is pretty on point this game, which is part of why I’ve been townreading him up to now. Can he replicate good tone with a pretty clear (imo) gameplan as scum? Still inclined to say yes, but yeah there is a predicate here.

    One thing that stood in particular for Sully/Makaze was that Mak was pushing for dealing with Sully after D4 into basically deprioritizing the slot now, which is really convenient.
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2916)
    And I guess as of this post gun to head Makaze > jumpluff > Chelsea > psycho
    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2925)
    The irony of Mak's point is I initially had woopons cc as more towny by virtue of being a direct counterclaim, but the more I read that EOD, the more it just felt like he was just trying to muddy the thread waters, and I felt the read on ria if Dunn's claim was true was hella opportunistic.

    What does everyone make of the fact woopons didn't actually have a natural progression on ria, despite having that early set up as a potential springboard?
    Why did you say think that it would make Chelsea look super town if she was doc covering, but then ignore how it looks for woopons actually doing it in the next sentence? Why didn't this come up until I called you on it?

    Breaks over, I'll be back at around 5pm
    Because I was focused on Chelsea at the time and was still ruminating over what I thought about woopons. By the time I made the post on woopons, I wasn't that fussed about the claims because I decided it was ultimately a mess that hurts town more than anything. I had the woopons thought of being possibly more clean when I made that Chelsea post, but after reading more of how woopons handled the claim and getting more EOD context, I felt it really was just shady for him. Particularly with the p#1100 that I pointed out.

    It's cute that you're trying to "gotcha" me, but you're losing the game if you vote me. Just stick with your woopons read and let's body the wolves.
    Simply put I don't buy that you don't think that it mattered because you mentioned it for on Chelsea who didn't do it and then came back to woopons, but only mentioned you had the same read on woopons when I called you out on it. If you wanted to note things and show your progression then I think you would say it before I forced you like you did with your Chelsea case. This is what I meant by an unnatural progression, you're saying as much about woopons as absolutely necessary but are waffling on Chelsea more naturally.

    I can't be the only one who is pinged by this AtE.

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2975)
    And I guess I want to ask - did you really think I was anti-spewing and not also think “no that doesn’t make sense, if he wanted to anti-spew he would just not post”?
    Is that would you do here as scum? I don't think you would give up when there's at my wagon and would try to present your town game until EoD.

    I'm out of time for my lunch
    I'll be back around 730 but I'll sneak to the bathroom to keep up on reading
    You didn’t actually answer the latter question
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    Completed Or is there hammer now?

    Or is there hammer now?
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    Completed jumpluff if you’re here that’d awesome Don’t...

    @jumpluff if you’re here that’d awesome

    Don’t feel like voting psycho just to tie, honestly feel like we’d be lost if he flips town with me still around. Plus Makaze will probably just hammer me anyway
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    Completed Re that one question Makaze: wow fair enough I’m...

    Re that one question @Makaze: wow fair enough I’m blind. I think it was part of the greater point that I feel like you’re consciously ignoring my town tells because you need to construct and push this case. I feel the same way looking at the psycho case now, on the surface it looks good, but really you just took of posts which are fine and called them scummy. You’re doing the same thing to my posts - I feel like you are manifesting a natural town sort of doubt.

    Actually why am I addressing this to Makaze. Makaze is consistently taking NAI posts and painting them as scummy. Despite what he says about players not having natural progression, it’s his own posts which are unnatural. What psycho says is true, town reads jump much more freely but I don’t if Makaze has done that once this game. His case progression, I guess in particular the last few days feels entirely constructed with the point to line up mislynches.

    I think it’s interesting he brings up a point about how psycho was trying to widen Poe when this is exactly what he did in one of his posts where he said “there are too many scum in this game”, which was very much at odds with the majority of town at the time. I didn’t think much of it at the time, but I feel like now this makes perfect sense to setup pushing for people being mostly townread.
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    Completed In my mind it’s as simple as it’s not PB/supa and...

    In my mind it’s as simple as it’s not PB/supa and I reaaaallly don’t think it’s ria/psycho and I don’t think it’s Claire/Sully so it has to be Mak
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    Completed I took a nap and am back.

    I took a nap and am back.
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    Completed And I guess I want to ask - did you really think...

    And I guess I want to ask - did you really think I was anti-spewing and not also think “no that doesn’t make sense, if he wanted to anti-spew he would just not post”?
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    Completed Makaze In the midst of a break

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2883)
    @Makaze, I feel like you hold back thoughts on my slot (and probably in general by extrapolation), but would you mind sharing if that’s true
    @Makaze

    In the midst of a break
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    Completed I was wrong on each of those players cause I...

    I was wrong on each of those players cause I didn’t pay close attention to their posts and chose wrong when it mattered.

    Look at how Makaze refuses to acknowledge every reason there is to townread me. @Makaze you keep calling me out on dodging questions so why did you dodge mine?
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    Completed Yes posting every thought you have makes sense as...

    Yes posting every thought you have makes sense as anti-spew, of course
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    Completed Actually is them not having control based on your...

    Actually is them not having control based on your own read or cause that’s the general consensus?
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    Completed Does Mak not have control of game state right now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2959)
    I don't think Chelsea/Mak is particularly impossible from what I've read. It actually makes some sense with some of the vc's. I think the main thing that rules that world out is that I would think that Mak/Chelsea would be able to have a bit more control of the gamestate by now. Though, fjp just kinda peacing out the day they were lynched would probably tie their hands regardless of how much control they had.
    Does Mak not have control of game state right now though? My lynch was led by him. Chelsea just appears to not really care about the game. And I guess even if they were in control, would you be able to tell?
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    Completed Is joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2960)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2958)
    I just realized it’s Makaze/Claire.

    This is Serenes Forest mafia, who else would be scum if not the mu’ers pretending to SFers 🤔🤔🤔🤔
    Can you elaborate on this for me
    Is joke
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    Completed Feel like I should ask you about pluff but not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2957)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2954)
    I just realized this discussion is kind of moot when supa’s probably going to die tonight and my solve will probably be ignored :/
    I promise if you're town, I'll take your words into consideration. I won't just let it be ignored.

    And yeah, I'm around, I'm just also doing my usual "waking up" routines and whatnot. Feel free to ask me anything.
    Feel like I should ask you about pluff but not exactly sure what since I really only skimmed your interactions. Tbh the more I sit here the more I want to switch sully with claire.

    I guess for starters are you familiar with jumpluff’s meta?
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Role of the Day
Lycan

The Lycan is a third party-aligned player who may target a player every night and attempt to guess their role. If they guess the target's role correctly, the target will die, and the Lycan will be immune to daykills and lynches the next day. If they guess incorrectly, the identity of the Lycan will be revealed publicly. The Lycans win by outnumbering all other factions.