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    Completed I feel decent that I came to the realization that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3279)
    If anyone should be Apologizing it should be me for not looking harder at other people (even if I did read Makaze/PB iso about 3 times) I can't tell if I had bias when reading their isos but I was just pretty fooled by Makaze. It seems we each had 1 wolf but couldn't find the other. Ah well!
    I feel decent that I came to the realization that Mak could be a wolf with you being town, but yeah, I'm not sure if I would have been able to steer my focus away from you in an F3. So, either way, we both were incorrect enough for it to matter
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    Completed No problem. I had fun. I'm sorry it wasn't the...

    Quote Originally Posted by ariadne (#3274)
    i didn’t have fun but i don’t really blame anyone for that but myself. i think it was overly optimistic of me to think i would’ve enjoyed this. gave it a shot until i couldn’t really deal with it anymore. thanks @Psycho666Soldier for taking my spot
    No problem. I had fun. I'm sorry it wasn't the same for you, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to sub into a game I enjoyed.
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    Completed I was happy to do it. The game even got me to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartBomb (#3265)
    hey all

    not much to say that isn't already obvious. paperblade said something kind of spewy in an off-site game that duskfall had access to so that sub wasn't available, unfortunately

    Feel like I could've done better in getting SF or SF-alternate subs and that's on me even ignoring the stated activity. Thanks so much to @jumpluff @Psycho666Soldier @Logic @orangeandblack5 for subbing in to a different community's game haha, as well as @BBM for subbing in even though he was busy at work for the day he subbed in. A few others from MU offered subs and I'm sorry for not accepting them, it was bad timing/responsiveness and yeah.

    Lot of the town apathy I'm sure came from having all PRs outed/dead by N1, which I'm sure didn't help. I hope the game was some amount of enjoyable. :bow:
    I was happy to do it. The game even got me to break my declaration to Ara that "I'm probably gonna play pretty low-key and YOLO-like because I'm in the mood for that right now lol."
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    Completed $%#!ing walrus, lol gg wolves. I was very...

    $%#!ing walrus, lol

    gg wolves. I was very sold on Makaze in that last phase, and I don't think anything was changing my mind on voting there first. But Logic would have been tough. I was starting to see where Chelsea could be town, and then I kept thinking about how Logic had all night to do something and openly was like, "Sorry, distracted with Pokemon," and I was playing with that world a bit. But I didn't feel good about it at all, and I'm not sure if I would have brought it up.

    For real, though, good job, Makaze. For probably feeling a bit cornered, you played your $%#! off and kept selling the wolf agenda. Admittedly, your posts this phase made me second guess a bit. Would love to play again.

    Big ups to @supa2 and @jumpluff for working with me and justifying my feeling to just towncore you two. jump in particular, I felt like we were working well together and were seeing a lot of the same things.

    Sorry I was wrong on you, Chelsea. But, I guess not too sorry considering the events lol.

    woopons, really sorry that went down the way it did. If my internet/MU wasn't being so weird for me that EOD, I might have swapped back to Chelsea(even if it didn't matter at that point). I felt you showed a surprising amount of WIM during that last phase.

    Good game everybody, and I would love to play with those I got to play with again. As well as some of those that were gone before I subbed in.
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    Completed Awww, what the $%#! happened?

    Awww, what the $%#! happened?
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    Completed Basically, I just want to see you show that you...

    Basically, I just want to see you show that you actually care about finding both wolves and not just proving your game-long tunnel right.
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    Completed I'd be more interested in you showing who my...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3206)
    See Ive tried to expand and ask myself if I'm tunneling but then I look at posts from Makaze/Jump and just nod my head. There's not much to really case.

    Of course, I could try and case you yourself instead of Ria points but at the moment I feel like I can better show I'm town than you're scum
    I'd be more interested in you showing who my partner is and why.
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    Completed EBWOP *their posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3204)
    On my break at work and I haven't been able to fully parse the bigger posts since I've left, but I'm legit triggered that Mak and Chelsea have focused their efforts on defending their selves rather than pushing or casing much. Though, I think Mak has at least mixed some casing in his posts from what I could skim.
    EBWOP *their posts
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    Completed On my break at work and I haven't been able to...

    On my break at work and I haven't been able to fully parse the bigger posts since I've left, but I'm legit triggered that Mak and Chelsea have focused their efforts on defending their selves rather than pushing or casing much. Though, I think Mak has at least mixed some casing in his posts from what I could skim.
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    Completed I'm too tired to read now. I'm gonna lie down...

    I'm too tired to read now. I'm gonna lie down and get ready for bed since I work tomorrow morning. I'll play ball and not vote in the first 24 hours because I do want to hear more from Logic, and I'm very curious about Makaze's thread presence whenever they arrive.
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    Completed Chelsea/jumpluff is pretty much the only weak...

    Chelsea/jumpluff is pretty much the only weak point of a "yeet Mak before Chelsea" strategy. Whereas there are a couple worlds I can currently see where voting Chelsea before Mak goes awry.
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    Completed Chelsea/Logic doesn't feel like a realistic world...

    Chelsea/Logic doesn't feel like a realistic world based on how they started their D2. Chelsea/jump, with minimal Sully knowledge, feels like it's possible, but I'm hesitant to jump down any road that involves scumreading jumpluff.
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    Completed If it's a Logic/jump world at all, then $%#! me

    If it's a Logic/jump world at all, then $%#! me
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    Completed I can see a world where Mak/Chelsea choose to go...

    I can see a world where Mak/Chelsea choose to go all out on Chelsea vs. Psycho, with Mak probably burying Chelsea if need be, in order to kill me in the night and hope Mak can convince Logic to vote jump. Because they know if they take me to F3, I'm probably never voting jump and leaning heavily towards voting Mak over Logic.

    But I can also see a Mak + Logic/jump world where the game is ready to take advantage of a t/t ria slot/Chelsea dichotomy to ensure a victory. Which is why as much as my gut feels like Chelsea needs to go, Mak is the optimal vote here.
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    Completed I'm gonna play a bit of Street Fighter with my...

    I'm gonna play a bit of Street Fighter with my friend right quick, and then I think I might try to tackle those EODs before I look at your two walls, jump.

    Chelsea completely uninterested in solving outside me: noted.
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    Completed That's a fair point re: champs vs. this game. ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3130)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3129)
    Honestly, I can see where Chelsea's EOD comes from a townie perspective. But Mak looked like someone who was chilling on a pseudo-vanity vote* on me considering woopons was his actual push starting the phase. He only cared about nailing woopons for sure when Chelsea became a wagon at the end.

    Which only enforces my belief that they're partners, but I'm going to try not to be mindlessly tunneled about it.

    (*I know my wagon was legit, but it really felt like Makaze found an opportunity to look busy in pushing me rather than letting paranoia build from a dead thread with woopons on the lead. So while it's technically not a "vanity" vote, it felt like his push on me was purely for appearance and the possibility of setting me up today.)
    Yeah idk I had this perception too, I think maybe because I knew the wagon wasn't going anywhere due to having an idea of the threadstate etc.

    Re. the rest of this stuff - this game isn't as active as a champs game, threadcamping is a big enabler of second guessing imo

    I empathise with not wanting wolves to control the wagons but to me these are the distinct possibilities

    - Chelsea votes you regardless of what we want
    - We all decide collectively the best thing is to litigate you vs. Chelsea here and now
    - Alternatively we decide to have you or me vs. Makaze or something
    - w!Makaze comes in with a case and votes w!Chelsea to try to set up the f3 win

    All of these are fine with me in their own way; although I get that village deciding the terms of the f5 is more important, if the wolves are who we think, then they have a terrain advantage regardless and are more prepared than us
    That's a fair point re: champs vs. this game. But as I just said, I still think we shouldn't wait too close to EOD.

    I'd honestly be fine with some kind of thunderdome between Chelsea and I if it comes down to it, but I would love to get a Mak/Chelsea dichotomy. Just because it would force them to act on the scenario. But, it being LYLO with locked votes, we can't exactly play with the votes here, so I guess it's just a matter of who everyone looks like they want/are going to vote.

    I'm gonna try and read a couple more EODs, as I honestly will probably waste too much time trying to read the entire game because I read slow af. I think I want to try and at least skim Mak's ISO for ria progressions, and I dunno, maybe ISO PB/Chelsea/Sully if I don't feel like I've seen enough from EOD reading.

    But overall, I don't think my opinion changes from voting Mak/Chelsea today and no one else.
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    Completed I feel like our thoughts on a very similar...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3127)
    Basically it's impossible to discount PB/Logic paranoia at this stage altho Logic didn't feel wolfy to me yesterday or anything

    I would like to give Logic time also for that reason
    I feel like our thoughts on a very similar wavelength, so that's good at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#3128)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3121)
    I didn't get the chance read much over night other than some of woopons' d5 posts. At the moment, I'm pretty dead set on Mak/Chelsea after that EOD, and I will be casting my vote within the first 24 hours.
    Please don't.
    I don't have a bunch of time to reread right this moment and would prefer to have more analysis than come in and have the pressure to be some kind of deciding vote.
    *sigh* I'll give you time, but I don't think we should wait this out until EOD. And honestly, if I place a vote, either I'm right and you probably have most of the time in the world, or I'm wrong and it's game over. So you shouldn't have much pressure to worry about.

    Do you have an idea of where your head's at right now?
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    Completed I'm still thinking about the fact Makaze was one...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3122)
    I started solving last night with the conviction it was probably Chelsea/Makaze and if it wasn't I'd find out

    The overall is that it does look like them but there's some things holding me back about thinking w!Makaze - the w!Makaze world is one where Mak is essentially very willing to bus all their partners, either because they locked themselves into doing so or because their partners are lower WIM than them and more disposable - Mak was pretty instrumental in getting Athena and fjp killed.

    If Chelsea is a villager I don't really know what to do with that. I guess my statement to Chelsea would be, there's no, in a game sense, 'watching people scramble' any more, if people are wrong on you there's a very strong potential to losing to that here and all the blame in the world doesn't change that, all the insistence villagers ought to find you doesn't change that and is misplaced because of the mess that this game became. In fact, people deviated from yeeting you repeatedly, even though you asked to thunderdome, because they still believed in you somewhat, so you could argue that the village discharged its duty to you, especially supa. And we're in mylo with two wolves alive left so you need to take stances on a living player that isn't Ria/Psycho. You've used the defence that you wouldn't play this badly as scum several times, but your game looks like a good scum game more than anything, continually evading death while more trusted villagers and lower WIM wolves die. Also sometimes you just don't get anything to work with as a wolf.

    I can't see ria as a wolf with anyone except Paperblade (Logic), which is still a viable team but a lot scarier and I didn't devote as much time to the possibility because the Makaze doubts had to form. Mak/ria seems improbable to me based on the very things that make Mak/Chelsea seem aligned to me (voting behaviour mostly) but I am interested in hearing any input on this.
    I'm still thinking about the fact Makaze was one of what would be 3 major wolf wagons on d1. Like, damn, the stroke of bad luck they ran into at the start of the game. Makaze switching to Athena makes sense in that scenario, it's just, $%#!, that doesn't happen too often. Even so, what you said yesterday stuck with me, about how the fjp yeet was more a case of a bad situation where fjp probably just couldn't get enough time to play. You're better off just yeeting them for the cred early instead of risking they get yeeted in LYLO and you have more of a trail to ruin what could have been a victory. In all honesty, had ariadne not subbed out and Mak didn't get weird with me, they probably could have skirted through this phase with minimal shade, instead of this situation that has them as one of the primary suspects.

    Overall, I don't think Logic plays the phase the way he does as a wolf. Particularly at the end. If nothing else, I think Logic would leave himself open to the possibility of voting me. But he chose instead to essentially defend me(pretty sure he said that he wasn't really interested in voting me yesterday). It's not impossible for a wolf to do, but I wasn't getting those vibes. That's coupled with my opinion of PB from what I've read.
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    Completed This is because you're a wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3131)
    None of these flips have shocked me
    This is because you're a wolf.
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    Completed I basically was ready to vote woopons up until...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3120)
    Ok well I dunno what else to do other than talk about stuff

    I reread the whole game overnight except the back half of D4 and all of yesterday, which I would like to do because yesterday was a lot more active, but I still feel unsure about my solve and it's going to take a while to retrieve the things I want to talk about from bookmarks

    I will start with EoD yesterday - if people could talk about their intentions at EoD yesterday that would be helpful, I am going to outline mine with no real commentary just because I found EoD kind of telling and I want others to share theirs

    - I wanted to hold my vote back because I wanted to be able to react to people's voting movements rather than have potentially underdeveloped reads taken advantage of
    - I was fine with woopons dying and thought he was probably a wolf (sorry woopons), but was struggling to weigh my natural tendency to get cold feet at EoDs vs. doubt I was getting by his self-sacrificial/trying to just solve before death behaviour at EoD. I really didn't want to lose to the 'I accept my death' scum ploy if that was what was actually happening
    - I was also willing to vote Chelsea instead of woopons, but didn't want to state this too openly because it would be contingent on how the wagon formed and my read on Chelsea was a lot less developed. These were the only two votes I was open to
    - I got the Chelsea wagon but she essentially initiated it herself, which psyched me out a bit for reasons I stated at the time (it would be a risky play, even though I understand her to have a reputation for boldness)
    - It tied 2-2-2 Chelsea/Psycho/woopons with Logic undeclared. Logic I had as a town slot. woopons was voting Chelsea though
    - I didn't realise Mak was still around until they came back with a long post about Psycho etc. and I wanted to vote after Makaze because I was sketched
    - Mak, Psycho, and Logic voted woopons almost simultaneously at T-1, rendering any other votes irrelevant. I did not expect this from Mak and Psycho
    - Lol me
    I basically was ready to vote woopons up until his re-entry, even if I was thinking about pushing Chelsea up instead. But once he returned and I got to talking to him a bit more, I was getting this sense of him being very sincere and concerned about town finding the right path after his yeet. I kept bouncing around whether I wanted to swap to Chelsea, and started feeling that maybe I was right at the beginning about woopons being a misyeet. Especially once Mak came in and was acting strangely.

    I was pretty all-in on Chelsea once I placed my vote, until woopons said he wanted to make a tie. And I explained the rest.

    I wanted to write that before reading your spoiler, and it's interesting that you pretty much had the same idea about woopons' behavior at the end there. I mostly note that because naturally in this situation, I have to consider the world where I let you skate by without as much investigation and got pocketed. My biggest blindspot with you is I haven't really read any Sully other than a couple posts woopons quoted. But man, Supa and woopons felt really good when we were interacting, and the same goes for you, and I think that matters for a lot when I don't have any real reason to suspect you other than circumstances.

    Mak and Chelsea have felt very awkward to me. I get that I didn't come in here with an attitude that others don't really want to see this late in the game, but it was an unexpected sub when I'm overall feeling pretty demotivated to play hard after how my semi-final went down. When I said I was here to throw, that was only half a joke, because I wasn't really going to effort. But why did Supa not feel as weird about it? Why did woopons just kind of write me off despite waffling on his slot? Those two and you, despite whatever level of doubt, wanted to work with me and gave me the room to breathe and find the motivation to actually read things a bit deeper before jumping down my throat.

    Mak and Chelsea were the only ones who were super off-put by my posts and never really backed out of that or re-evaluated. I'll even give Chelsea credit because she's been tunneling my slot all game, but Mak in particular chose to just keep pushing me for everything they can find rather than seeing the towniness in all the work I did in his absence. Never considering that maybe some of my weird inconsistencies are due to being a sub slot on d5 when I didn't even know the game was happening. I think they gave one compliment to my explained vca when they actually bothered to read the post, and maybe I missed some good words in their big case on me(I didn't bother reading it, defending myself is a waste of energy). And despite some passing comments, it's like they almost forgot about woopons until the very end.
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    Completed I'll take a look at your bigger posts when I get...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3125)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3121)
    I didn't get the chance read much over night other than some of woopons' d5 posts. At the moment, I'm pretty dead set on Mak/Chelsea after that EOD, and I will be casting my vote within the first 24 hours.
    I agree with this team, but I feel anxiety about accounting for this exact two-person solve being wrong, and am unsure which is the optimal person to vote, if that makes sense

    Also there's a good possibility I go f3 afaict so anxiety intensifies about wanting the whole day, etc.
    I'll take a look at your bigger posts when I get home(literally just walked out of work and sitting in my car ready to drive home).

    The reason why I don't want to drag out the day is recently in the championship, many LYLOs were dragged until the last second, and it led to townies second guessing their correct guesses or allowing wolves to have control over the wagons. I want to avoid that.

    Honestly, I can see where Chelsea's EOD comes from a townie perspective. But Mak looked like someone who was chilling on a pseudo-vanity vote* on me considering woopons was his actual push starting the phase. He only cared about nailing woopons for sure when Chelsea became a wagon at the end.

    Which only enforces my belief that they're partners, but I'm going to try not to be mindlessly tunneled about it.

    (*I know my wagon was legit, but it really felt like Makaze found an opportunity to look busy in pushing me rather than letting paranoia build from a dead thread with woopons on the lead. So while it's technically not a "vanity" vote, it felt like his push on me was purely for appearance and the possibility of setting me up today.)
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    Completed Letting it rand in late game, right before LYLO,...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3119)
    @Psycho666Soldier why did you break what you perceived to be a rand between Chelsea/woopons?
    Letting it rand in late game, right before LYLO, is a big no-no for me, and while I was softening on woopons after interacting with him, that move felt shady. Unfortunately, either the boards were glitching out or my internet was being $%#!, because I probably would have switched back when I saw his plea that he thought it would put Chelsea at 3(I'm assuming he thought it would be a tie with himself).
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    Completed This pinged me, too. It felt like he actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3118)
    @Makaze why were you writing a post about various subjects at EoD instead of participating live in the thread
    This pinged me, too. It felt like he actually had no interest in EOD until Chelsea getting voted was realistic.
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    Completed I didn't get the chance read much over night...

    I didn't get the chance read much over night other than some of woopons' d5 posts. At the moment, I'm pretty dead set on Mak/Chelsea after that EOD, and I will be casting my vote within the first 24 hours.
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    Completed primordial woopons We're not randing this late.

    ##Vote primordial woopons

    We're not randing this late.
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    Completed Ugh, I don't like this

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3086)
    ##Vote Chelsea

    I’m fine with rand
    Ugh, I don't like this
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    Completed I don't, and I'm not going to pretend to be an...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3085)
    Don't act like you'd know how scum me would play. Because I can tell you right now you wouldn't
    I don't, and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert. But I've seen many players have the kind of balls to do what you're doing as scum, and I wouldn't put it outside of what I know about your scumrange.
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    Completed I did have a moment of pause reading that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#3082)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3081)
    typed outg Logic is Psycho's partner and then I remembered that was PB and slammed my head on my desk sigh
    This...
    Is slightly townie.
    I did have a moment of pause reading that.
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    Completed Last ditch effort to look townie. From the...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3073)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3068)
    I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually kind of vibing with woopens and it's making me doubt things.

    But nothing about Chelsea's posting is assuaging my concerns with her.
    It's hard for me to imagine her thunderdoming you here if woopons is a villager but she's a wolf, fwiw

    Idk how risky she likes to be though
    Last ditch effort to look townie. From the little I know about Chelsea, I'd expect her to go for some ballsy play. Especially if she thinks woopons will be lynched, because she can say she was right about the thunderdome solve.
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    Completed Makaze clearly breaking the server to stop the...

    Makaze clearly breaking the server to stop the turn of the tide.
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    Completed Great time for MU to be glitching out.

    Great time for MU to be glitching out.
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    Completed I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually kind of vibing...

    I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually kind of vibing with woopens and it's making me doubt things.

    But nothing about Chelsea's posting is assuaging my concerns with her.
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    Completed Yeah, supa not being here is sad

    Yeah, supa not being here is sad
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    Completed I'm down for this Chelsea Chelsea cfd,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#3052)
    really want the execute to be in me and psycho tbh
    I'm down for this

    ##Vote Chelsea

    Chelsea cfd, anybody?
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    Completed As in hey have to be a bit more ballsy with who...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3038)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3037)
    Honestly, if woopons is town here, Mak being scum makes a lot of sense with how they've acted ever since I entered the game. woopons is an easy wagon to get away with at this point, but leaves scum in a bit of a corner. So if another opportunity comes, you take it, and Mak has done that. One of two things can happen there: I get misyeeted, and then Mak can go, "I was a fool, Vote: woopons" and have a relatively easy end game, OR woopons gets misyeeted while Mak gets to scream about how it's Psycho, and set me up for a game-ending push.
    What corner? They would only have to pick one out of whichever of you and Chelsea are villagers and just yeet there tomorrow

    This is a very real scenario
    As in hey have to be a bit more ballsy with who they push and risk having a split town that doesn't go with their desired consensus. woopons is someone that no one is really bothered by yeeting. But multiple people have doubts on Chelsea and myself, not to mention the potential of yeeting outside of us for someone like Logic. If woopons survives until tomorrow, then they have a much easier end-game where most people would probably be like, "We've let this slot live too long, it just has to be him. We've tinfoiled for too long."

    Like imagine Chelsea is scum and it's between my slot and Chelsea. Just off votes alone, my slot has more credibility.
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    Completed Which makes you even more hypocritical because...

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#3024)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3015)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#3008)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3002)
    The idea that Claire/Makaze would have more control now I think is what has to give wrt the remaining associatives.

    @Makaze please tell me precisely how my thought dump “does not make sense” and “is full of contradictions”. Why does town!Makaze here not even make the effort to entertain how there is a consistent thought process to the posts
    I don't have time to do an iso
    This goes for @Psycho666Soldier too, I've been pushing my breaks well over 15 as it is, I see what I see
    I have an example in my recent post where your argument poe don't make sense
    I'm just saying it's hilariously hypocritical.
    The difference is the things I'm critiquing are things you've mentioned so I know you've at least read them
    Which makes you even more hypocritical because you haven't.
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    Completed Mak. He got mad at me not reading the game when...

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#3023)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3015)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#3008)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3002)
    The idea that Claire/Makaze would have more control now I think is what has to give wrt the remaining associatives.

    @Makaze please tell me precisely how my thought dump “does not make sense” and “is full of contradictions”. Why does town!Makaze here not even make the effort to entertain how there is a consistent thought process to the posts
    I don't have time to do an iso
    This goes for @Psycho666Soldier too, I've been pushing my breaks well over 15 as it is, I see what I see
    I have an example in my recent post where your argument poe don't make sense
    I'm just saying it's hilariously hypocritical.
    Can I get a little more context as to what is hypocritical?
    Are you talking about mak or woop here?
    Mak. He got mad at me not reading the game when I had just subbed in, but hasn't even fully read posts that have the answer to questions he asks in response. Like when I explained my thoughts on vca and completely missed that my POE was at the bottom of my post.
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    Completed Honestly, if woopons is town here, Mak being scum...

    Honestly, if woopons is town here, Mak being scum makes a lot of sense with how they've acted ever since I entered the game. woopons is an easy wagon to get away with at this point, but leaves scum in a bit of a corner. So if another opportunity comes, you take it, and Mak has done that. One of two things can happen there: I get misyeeted, and then Mak can go, "I was a fool, Vote: woopons" and have a relatively easy end game, OR woopons gets misyeeted while Mak gets to scream about how it's Psycho, and set me up for a game-ending push.
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    Completed I'll say I do agree that they don't seem to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#3005)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3000)
    Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling my posts anti-spew. Would town Makaze really think this?
    I actually don't have a problem with him calling your posts anti-spew because it did feel like you were just throwing stuff out to look solvey and confuse the game as you wait for your inevitable yeet. I was actually going to say that your suggested option of just not saying anything isn't really anti-spew, because spew means you're saying things. If you're not talking, you're not spewing, anti- or otherwise.

    Do you think town!Makaze would have a different take on your recent posts?
    Ok idk, like I guess I’m not the one reading my posts so I’m not entirely sure how they come across, but I feel like there has to be enough for people to pick up on a thought process at least. Idk I guess I’ve been called out for being hard to follow in the past.

    I think he would factor in the tonality of my posts more. He uses tone reads on everyone else and I know my tone is town, but iirc he hasn’t shown that he’s factored that into his case. Like him using his own doc claim to shade mine; I think town!Makaze would be able to look at that objectively, also given my explanation for why I did it.
    I'll say I do agree that they don't seem to be considering any towniness with you, and they have done the same with me. And you make a good point about them not seeming to consider tone with you, because he did use tone as the primary reason for writing off Supa and Logic. Oh, I'm sorry. Paperblade who is now played by Logic.

    For what it's worth, I don't think it looks like you don't have a thought process to follow like others. To me it just felt like you were spinning wheels and going around in circles.
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    Completed I'm just saying it's hilariously hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#3008)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3002)
    The idea that Claire/Makaze would have more control now I think is what has to give wrt the remaining associatives.

    @Makaze please tell me precisely how my thought dump “does not make sense” and “is full of contradictions”. Why does town!Makaze here not even make the effort to entertain how there is a consistent thought process to the posts
    I don't have time to do an iso
    This goes for @Psycho666Soldier too, I've been pushing my breaks well over 15 as it is, I see what I see
    I have an example in my recent post where your argument poe don't make sense
    I'm just saying it's hilariously hypocritical.
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    Completed Not until in my recent post responding to him...

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpluff (#3007)
    Psycho did you ever answer Mak's thing about you referring to a vote my predecessor placed by my name? To save me time responding to it
    Not until in my recent post responding to him talking about that. I didn't respond to it because I don't see how it's relevant at all when I was clearly talking about your slot, not the specific person.
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    Completed I actually don't have a problem with him calling...

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#3000)
    Actually psycho, what do you think of Mak calling my posts anti-spew. Would town Makaze really think this?
    I actually don't have a problem with him calling your posts anti-spew because it did feel like you were just throwing stuff out to look solvey and confuse the game as you wait for your inevitable yeet. I was actually going to say that your suggested option of just not saying anything isn't really anti-spew, because spew means you're saying things. If you're not talking, you're not spewing, anti- or otherwise.

    Do you think town!Makaze would have a different take on your recent posts?
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    Completed *their own questions, sorry

    *their own questions, sorry
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    Completed Honestly I think it's hilarious that Mak started...

    Honestly I think it's hilarious that Mak started calling me out for "not reading the game" when they haven't even bothered to read my posts to get the answers to his own questions.
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    Completed jumpluff isn't my POE. Again, are you actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2988)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2974)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2883)
    @Makaze, I feel like you hold back thoughts on my slot (and probably in general by extrapolation), but would you mind sharing if that’s true
    @Makaze

    In the midst of a break
    I already answered that in P#2965, but I'm not sure what you're asking if that's not the answer.

    If there's something I'm forgetting I've probably already said it in one of my arguments throughout the game.

    P#2093 is my case on you and your reaction on D2, first case is you look back with Athena and second is why I thought it was scummy to ask about my scumgame when you supposedly read my case on you yesterday
    Why you work with Sully in P#2386/P#1585
    PoE analysis in P#2422
    Answered your question in P#2423
    My case on you today in #2522 looks at why you look bad with fjp too and that you make sense in a Chelsea world
    At first I thought you couldn't work with ari because of your shade earlygame, but my iso of Psycho made me reconsider
    I think you work in both worlds and locked in on voting me because you have no option but to loosen poe

    I feel like no one responded to my Psycho case unless you count woopons and all he said was "It's easy to fake wagonomics but idk". Psycho has completely dropped their wagonomics case after I called them on it and no one is seeing it as weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2937)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2932)
    Psycho, what’s your solve order again?
    You/Chelsea > Logic > Mak/jump

    I'm fairly certain scum is just you and Chelsea, and if we're wrong on you, I'm even more certain of Chelsea.

    I thought PB looked pretty good on D1 and their start to d2 felt incredibly motivated, but Logic's presence has been less than inspiring so far. Their slot's placement on the fjp wagon is solid bus territory, too.

    If I'm wrong on the first three, then the Mak tinfoil comes back on almost immediately, and I get paranoid that I'm letting myself get snowed by jump for basically being around when I am. I think Mak has bus equity considering the gamestate flow, and this pivot focus on me instead of woopons feels hella opportunistic. jump also doesn't look great for sort of buddying me and fueling your wagon after defending you quite strongly early this phase.

    But in all honesty, if you or Chelsea flip today and you're green, I'm looking at the other three closer before I just stick with my confident solve.
    I might have missed it but why did you put jump back in the PoE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2941)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2940)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2937)
    You/Chelsea > Logic > Mak/jump

    I'm fairly certain scum is just you and Chelsea, and if we're wrong on you, I'm even more certain of Chelsea.

    I thought PB looked pretty good on D1 and their start to d2 felt incredibly motivated, but Logic's presence has been less than inspiring so far. Their slot's placement on the fjp wagon is solid bus territory, too.

    If I'm wrong on the first three, then the Mak tinfoil comes back on almost immediately, and I get paranoid that I'm letting myself get snowed by jump for basically being around when I am. I think Mak has bus equity considering the gamestate flow, and this pivot focus on me instead of woopons feels hella opportunistic. jump also doesn't look great for sort of buddying me and fueling your wagon after defending you quite strongly early this phase.

    But in all honesty, if you or Chelsea flip today and you're green, I'm looking at the other three closer before I just stick with my confident solve.
    PB is town apparently for reasons I shouldn’t discuss, and I guess you can trust like all the flipped town, cause he has a pretty distinct meta

    Also we don’t have time to be wrong twice just fyi
    Fully aware, which is why I'm considering the rest of my solve more seriously if you flip wrong (as I don't think a Chelsea wagon happens today at this point).
    For everyone seeing this, please read my argument P#2778

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2969)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2961)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2957)
    I promise if you're town, I'll take your words into consideration. I won't just let it be ignored.

    And yeah, I'm around, I'm just also doing my usual "waking up" routines and whatnot. Feel free to ask me anything.
    Feel like I should ask you about pluff but not exactly sure what since I really only skimmed your interactions. Tbh the more I sit here the more I want to switch sully with claire.

    I guess for starters are you familiar with jumpluff’s meta?
    Not at all. I'm aware of their name, but I don't think I've ever read any of their games, and pretty sure I never played with them.

    My main reasons for writing off jumpluff are A) Sully's d3 vote on Chelsea looks like a townie joining two other townies to try and go against the mounting misyeet on Bartozio. Being on the side of my slot helps a lot, too, as that gives me two confirmed town perspectives that was thinking along the same lines to some extent.

    And B) Our interactions over night made me feel like we were operating on a similar wavelength and both earnestly trying to solve the game. Same with Supa.
    I'm going to point back to my argument in P#2778 about he said it was jumpluff but has changed to calling it Sully after I called you out on it but never responded to it in P#2749.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2973)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2965)
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2883)
    @Makaze, I feel like you hold back thoughts on my slot (and probably in general by extrapolation), but would mind sharing if that’s true
    I pretty much said everything in my Psycho read
    I agree with supa that you're speaking without actually solving right now, and posting every thought you have despite contradictions makes more sense as anti-spew than leaving a legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2891)
    Also I guess I should clarify some things I’ve done

    -the doc cc: this was directly in response to Mak saying doc had to reason to cc; at the time I thought he was openly role fishing (wasn’t aware that was mechanically correct) and did that to bring attention to that, the furthest I really that about it beyond that was that it wouldn’t mess things up for real doc since I didn’t believe the doc claim at the time

    In general I’ve not been reading posts super in depth and so I totally misfired on Bart/let Athena fly under the radar/gave FJP too much of a pass for his thread entrances (they’re too fun!) and so that’s why I didn’t really mention any of them
    That doesn't explain why not mentioning them is a result of not reading in depth. Why would it make you make you misfire on town but completely ignore scum?

    Quote Originally Posted by supa2 (#2907)
    Woopons I'd enjoy the tornado of content on D1 but it's now D4 and I feel these sporadic moments aren't really telling me to anything. Like yeah you're doing something but right now you can see players who are at a different stage of the game where their PoEs are determined and it's less time to think about all these caustic decisions we could've made and instead what's in front of us. I need you to condense your thoughts and tell me how you feel about things as if you had a gun to your head. Because right now you kinda do and you're gonna be the lynch, so if you're town just give me clarity
    This is where I'm at. He's been on every team I've had because he contradicts himself and makes sense with everyone. I feel like this is how he's played all game, and he isn't changing, he's just dialed it to 11. I could see it if he was coming to conclusions but he's contradicting himself constantly

    His POE doesn't make sense as town progression

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2908)
    Re-examining Makaze, yeah his tone is pretty on point this game, which is part of why I’ve been townreading him up to now. Can he replicate good tone with a pretty clear (imo) gameplan as scum? Still inclined to say yes, but yeah there is a predicate here.

    One thing that stood in particular for Sully/Makaze was that Mak was pushing for dealing with Sully after D4 into basically deprioritizing the slot now, which is really convenient.
    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2916)
    And I guess as of this post gun to head Makaze > jumpluff > Chelsea > psycho
    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2925)
    The irony of Mak's point is I initially had woopons cc as more towny by virtue of being a direct counterclaim, but the more I read that EOD, the more it just felt like he was just trying to muddy the thread waters, and I felt the read on ria if Dunn's claim was true was hella opportunistic.

    What does everyone make of the fact woopons didn't actually have a natural progression on ria, despite having that early set up as a potential springboard?
    Why did you say think that it would make Chelsea look super town if she was doc covering, but then ignore how it looks for woopons actually doing it in the next sentence? Why didn't this come up until I called you on it?

    Breaks over, I'll be back at around 5pm
    Because I was focused on Chelsea at the time and was still ruminating over what I thought about woopons. By the time I made the post on woopons, I wasn't that fussed about the claims because I decided it was ultimately a mess that hurts town more than anything. I had the woopons thought of being possibly more clean when I made that Chelsea post, but after reading more of how woopons handled the claim and getting more EOD context, I felt it really was just shady for him. Particularly with the p#1100 that I pointed out.

    It's cute that you're trying to "gotcha" me, but you're losing the game if you vote me. Just stick with your woopons read and let's body the wolves.
    Simply put I don't buy that you don't think that it mattered because you mentioned it for on Chelsea who didn't do it and then came back to woopons, but only mentioned you had the same read on woopons when I called you out on it. If you wanted to note things and show your progression then I think you would say it before I forced you like you did with your Chelsea case. This is what I meant by an unnatural progression, you're saying as much about woopons as absolutely necessary but are waffling on Chelsea more naturally.

    I can't be the only one who is pinged by this AtE.

    Quote Originally Posted by primordial woopons (#2975)
    And I guess I want to ask - did you really think I was anti-spewing and not also think “no that doesn’t make sense, if he wanted to anti-spew he would just not post”?
    Is that would you do here as scum? I don't think you would give up when there's at my wagon and would try to present your town game until EoD.

    I'm out of time for my lunch
    I'll be back around 730 but I'll sneak to the bathroom to keep up on reading
    jumpluff isn't my POE. Again, are you actually reading the post? Because my putting jumpluff there is explained in that exact post. If you bothered actually caring about what I had to say instead of tunneling me like a weirdo, you'd see that over night, I came to me basically feeling like it has to be woopons/Chelsea, and I was happy to take supa out based on interactions and discussions with jump. So My POE was those two plus Logic, but thinking PB's posts on D1 seemed pretty towny. If I'm wrong on woopons/Chelsea, then I have to consider that I could be letting jumpluff slide too much.

    AtE? What are you talking about? How is that post AtE at all?

    I didn't respond to my mix-up about jump/Sully because it's irrelevant. It's clear by jumpluff I meant jumpluff's slot. Whether it was actually jumpluff or Sully doesn't matter, and the fact you're making it out like it does is weird. Why are you being so weird about my slot?

    To be honest, I don't care about noting my progression. Townies shouldn't care about their appearance. I care about solving, no matter how sporadic it might look to you.
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    Completed Where the hell are you people

    Where the hell are you people
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    Completed Yep, that's about all I got from fjp's ISO. ...

    Yep, that's about all I got from fjp's ISO.

    Gonna go play SFV for a bit.
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    Completed Obviously has no time to really play this phase,...

    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#1919)
    ok ive been absolutely canned the last few days
    will have more time in the next few days; sorry everyone
    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#1922)
    i have 15 minutes
    i get the chelsea wagon based on stuff from previous gamedays but can someone give me a tldr of the bart wagon
    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#1934)
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperblade (#1926)
    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#1922)
    i have 15 minutes
    i get the chelsea wagon based on stuff from previous gamedays but can someone give me a tldr of the bart wagon
    jumped on the dunn wagon kind of suddenly when it pushed it over the other wagons when he was scumreading them more until that point
    tunneled claire D2 onward and hasn't really updated his reads or felt like he was trying to gamesolve
    ok sure sold
    ##Vote Bartozio
    Obviously has no time to really play this phase, and jumps at the opportunity to put the townie over instead of even considering the Chelsea wagon as a possibility. I guess if jumpluff is a wolf, I could maybe see where he wanted to guarantee the big wagon couldn't be overtaken. But overall, he seemed to have a good head on his shoulders. If the wagons are t/t, why not vote Chelsea and look like you're trying to overturn a misyeet?
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    Completed When fjp makes this vote, Mak, my slot, and...

    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#452)
    ok fully caught up
    re: makaze - in the post i quoted earlier + the next few posts its obvious they’re actively looking for aggressivity in chelsea, even though chelsea’s subsequent posts (or the ones before) arent really even all that aggressive
    just has some words and phrases that can be taken as aggressive in a vacuum
    its like they’re only looking for things that corroborate their chelsea read and disregarding everything else
    but
    i think makaze’s push on shinori’s vote derp is whatever, and if anything i dont see the walkback as scummy
    readslist (save for the vague doubledown on chelsea) doesnt seem like a pile of bull$%#! either
    shinori brushing off the readslist is also a bad look
    at the very least the interaction between makaze/shinori doesnt seem like scumscum
    and makaze is either town on a bad tunnel on chelsea or scum trying to find an easy miselim
    and failing
    idk which is true
    meh

    chelsea’s nonchalance regarding the whole matter is super towny tho

    re: athena - +1 to what others have said regarding the vote + nonpush + unvote on mackc2
    but also like
    what kind of town player goes and says “just answer only to what i asked”
    even though mack’s posts were a clear attempt at gamesolving and is at least tangentially relevant to the discussion at hand
    this is tonally distinct from how town would’ve prodded mack to answer the question
    ##Vote Athena_57
    When fjp makes this vote, Mak, my slot, and Dunnstral are the top wagons and looking to be more relevant than either of the wolf wagons. Seems like a bit of pre-emptive self-pres with the hope that the distancing will pay off later if it doesn't suddenly end up being the main wagon by day end. Again, like Athena, it feels like fjp really wanted Mak as a wagon option. While burying one wolf partner, it would make sense to defend another, so the mention of Chelsea has me hmmmmming pretty hard. I recognize it could be TMI, though.
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    Completed First post of fjp's that wasn't just fluff and...

    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#445)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#164)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperblade (#75)
    i'm not reading posts over three sentences long
    Your posts suck.
    This plus the above posts are pretty heavily pinging to me.

    Chelsea has this weird negativity and aggression that isn't related to scumhunting and doesn't lead to anything. She's leaving herself all of the options and hiding behind a devil may care attitude. I do see the irony in me saying this, but I do try to state my reads, if not my reasons.

    I'd like to hear what @supa2 thinks, if Chelsea won't answer her side.
    its like you found a few thorny words in her posts and then bullshitted a push based on just that, without actually reading her posts in its entirety
    idt town does thay
    Quote Originally Posted by fairyjigglypuff (#445)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#164)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperblade (#75)
    i'm not reading posts over three sentences long
    Your posts suck.
    This plus the above posts are pretty heavily pinging to me.

    Chelsea has this weird negativity and aggression that isn't related to scumhunting and doesn't lead to anything. She's leaving herself all of the options and hiding behind a devil may care attitude. I do see the irony in me saying this, but I do try to state my reads, if not my reasons.

    I'd like to hear what @supa2 thinks, if Chelsea won't answer her side.
    its like you found a few thorny words in her posts and then bullshitted a push based on just that, without actually reading her posts in its entirety
    idt town does thay
    First post of fjp's that wasn't just fluff and made me feel any sort of way. Seems a bit weird the first post of any substance is this chainsaw defense redirected onto Mak.
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