This argument is pointless with you in your current condition. Ugh.
Type: Posts; User: SullyMcGully
This argument is pointless with you in your current condition. Ugh.
I haven't spoken with Athena in years.
I have like no time to make this post, but here goes:
I have disliked Claire since D2.
She still hasn't told me why she was scumreading me yesterday. Feels so much like she's setting me up to look like her partner.
My D2 cases against Claire still stand. I expressed doubt at the beginning of D3 because I wanted to make sure people thought it over instead of blindly lynching her though.
I don't like Bart's move to suddenly start scumreading me after he became a viable wagon. Feels like he's just trying to pocket Makaze. I'm not 100% sold on him being scum though. My townread on him from D2 hasn't been negated entirely. But yeah, he's playing really weak.
It's gonna suck if the one game where I don't tunnel on Bart is the one where he's actually scum.
I'm keeping my vote where it is, but honestly, I trust Amy/Supa/PB more than myself so if they want to swing, I'm okay with FJP or Bart lynches. The only person outside of the universal towncore that I strongly townread is Makaze. Claire is the scummiest of the remaining players, but of course, she's not the only scum.
i have to leave now bye
Like I said, not getting misyeeted is a big goal for me this phase. So if I come across like I'm especially conscious of the way I'm being treated in the thread, that's why.
You're entitled to your opinions and whatnot. You're allowed to think I'm scummy. There are some pretty good reasons to think that way. But I don't look worse here than Claire, so I recommend you yeet her - or somebody else if you have a breakthrough or something - and save grilling me for when I'm around to defend myself.
Don't allow yourself to think the mafia won't try to take advantage of my absence from the thread to get me misyeeted. I've got to go now. I might be back before DL, but I might not be back until D4. We'll see what happens. I'm leaving a vote on Claire.
See y'all later.
I didn't think D2 would be 48 hours instead of 72, so deadline caught me by surprise. I doubt I would have moved off of YOLO with another 24 hours, but I might have had a bit more urgency about other matters if I'd known how little time we actually had. So sorry about that.
My content is going to be very limited for the remainder of the game, however, as my family is going on vacation. I'll be on the road for most of tomorrow and much more infrequent following that. And I'm about to pack up my computer, so if y'all have questions for me... speak now or hold it in until D4. Honestly my number two priority for this day is not getting misyeeted, so if there's anything I can do to allay your concerns about my slot, just let me know.
Of course, my number one priority is catching scum, but I don't even know where to start. I was pretty convinced that YOLO was scum. It's probably best that we take the dead man's advice and yeet Claire next, as so much of this game would be easier to read with her flip.
But I'm not 100% sold on that. I'd need to take a closer look at how scum potentially behaved on YOLO's wagon. For most of D2, it seemed like everyone was okay with either a Claire or a YOLO yeet. At a certain point, it swung over to YOLO, and maybe the players who swung it (IDR who exactly they were) actually are scum but that seems like too obvious of a move. But if Claire was scum all along, then I feel like we'd have seen a lot more hesitancy to yeet her rather than the attitude of "I don't care which one we yeet" that a lot of players had.
YOLO not being scum still allows for a team with Claire on it to exist, but it also makes the alternatives - a team with Ria or Woopons or one of the more widely townread players - seem more likely. Claire is probably still the most informative yeet in the game, but I still think we need to be careful. Feels like scum has the upper hand right now.
And I'd love to make cases and ISOs and all of that but I'm kinda busy packing right now. So yeah, I'm not going to be very useful this phase.
It's such a weak case though. I doubt Athena ever thought he could actually get Bart yeeted. So the shade there does feel kinda pointless, unless Athena was distancing himself from a fellow scumbuddy. Or maybe he just played poorly and was putting out weak content because he was lazy? I mean, that's the reason we yeeted him. I just don't see a smoking gun in the Athena ISO WRT his relationship with Bart.
In general, Athena's yeet wasn't rich in associatives. I feel like scum might have been aware of that, and allowed it to go through as an alternative to lynching a player like Makaze or Dunn who would have blown this game wide open after flipping. But I'm pretty sure both of those players are town, so... yeah. That's all I've got.
Wait. I quoted the wrong post. The last post was in response to Amy's spoiler complaint, not what Supa said.
Though honestly, to me, readability does often determine whether I appreciate a player's content or not. Sometimes I feel like I'm scumreading someone just for having bad grammar. And I guess that's a really bad way to play, so... maybe I need to work on that.
And it's a misyeet because I SAID IT'S A MISYEET! Screw you Osie and your weirdly intuitive cases!
While I was reading Athena's ISO I found THIS however:
Scum does not see their scumbuddy locked in a deathtunnel with town, drop in and leave a demeaning statement like that, and then just leave. If it was a logical argument, I'd buy it as something scum could have planned out on the side. But just saying "this is bullsh*t" is the kind of pointless condecension I don't see scum piling on their buddy. Especially when that buddy is as beleaguered as Makaze was at the moment. So this post actually rachets Makaze up my list of townreads.
This doesn't say much for me about whether Shinori is scum intent on tearing Makaze down or town intent on tearing Makaze down, because... I can really see both of those worlds. But I seriously doubt Makaze is scum. @Shinori I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
After ISOing Bart, I came up with... nothing much?
Okay, so in conclusion, ATHENA DID NOT TOWNSPEW BARTOZIO VERY MUCH AT ALL. I read Athena's ISO too, and didn't find the conclusive evidence I imagined I'd find there. There's also this post... which I thought I had multiquoted, but apparently I didn't... where Bart defends Athena's vote on them, which is probably the worst-looking post Bart has made so far. This actually makes Bart and Athena being on a team together seem somewhat likely. So Bart isn't locktown or anything.
But his content has improved substantially on D2 compared to D1, and I always find that to be a townie thing. Townplay improves throughout the game as more information becomes available, while scumplay gets weaker as scum runs out of places to hide. So I'm still townreading Bart pretty highly.
Thanks for posting recently Bartozio. This'll make you easy to ISO.
But your voting history sends a pretty clear message without me having to understand the accompanying reads. The Athena push would be really hard for scum to justify.
I'm just worried because of SFMM5. In that game, Zoey and I were town leader. We allowed you into our inner circle and made you aware of our plans for all of town's power roles. When mafia completely screwed up on N1, I figured it cleared you, because you knew who was getting docced/copped/etc and you could have done something about it if you were scum. You were my top townread for the rest of the game. Little did I know that the reason scum didn't get a successful kill N1 was because you were overworked IRL and never actually got the chance to tell your buddies who not to shoot.
So basically, I kinda do have this impression of you as someone who might do something that makes no sense as scum and basically townclears you at the start of the game just to make the rest of the game a walk in the park.
I mean, I did this myself in a recent scumgame. I bussed all three of my buddies in the first three day phases to gain as much towncred as I could. I didn't really have much of a choice, as they were all way too low-effort for me to protect. And yeah, I did get misyeeted on the fourth day phase... but that's because I'm terrible. I'm sure you could pull it off.
Don't let the fact that I made six paragraphs about this make you think you're a top scumread for me, though. There are definitely worse-looking players on the list. I just don't think it's impossible for you to be scum just because you got Athena yeeted.
Also, if you're scumreading someone, shouldn't you explain your reasoning to town regardless of whether that someone wants you to or not? This is just lazy. If you think me or Weapons are likely scum, you should say why so that information is out in the open. You shouldn't just throw out a vague "I'm sussing you!" and then say "I'll only tell you why if you ask politely though." Like, why should scum care if you're scumreading them? The purpose of a case is not to tell scumreads why they're suspicious, it's to tell town why you think scumreads are scum.
There's no town benefit in doing the above. It doesn't even put any real pressure on the players in question. The only reason I can see you doing it is as scum, hoping nobody questions you about your lack of reads and trying to make players you know are town paranoid for no reason.
But I decided against it. I mean, even if they hadn't known which one was the real doc, it still would have been optimal to shoot one or the other. The fact that they didn't is bizarre.
Also Weapons cut it really close. He almost actually got Dunn yeeted. That doesn't seem like someone trying to keep Dunn alive. Not unless there are some big brain plays going on here, and I honestly don't get that vibe from Weapons.
So I wound up playing Minecraft with my older brother and didn't get any reading done today. So expect this readslist to change tomorrow.
Supa - I agree with just about everything this guy says. His push for Claire to produce better content is the towniest thing I've seen all day.
Paperblade - I also agree with just about everything this guy says.
Dunn - His content still ain't great, but I guess he's the doc.
Probably Townie, but I haven't been paying much attention to them so I could be wrong:
Amy - I'm not particularly impressed by her content, but she caught Athena, so she's probably town. I'm not sure if I can ever trust her completely after SFMM5 though.
FJP - Athena spew.
Bartozio - Has really flown under the radar. Probably got townspewed by Athena but I want to take a second look at that tomorrow.
Woopons - Has basically been spontaneous all day. Plays excellently towards their apparent town meta (I don't remember playing with him before so I wouldn't know) but hasn't produced actual results yet.
Ria - My opinion of her content has improved, but not substantially. She's almost definitely not scum with YOLO/Claire/Fenrir though if that's a thing.
Shinori - I've never been good at reading him. He's so emotional that I have trouble seeing the difference when he's attacking an actual read and when he's just attacking somebody's mindset or methodology.
Makaze - Also embroiled in too much conflict for me to really read properly. I was wrong to think I'd be able to read this two-way tunnel better as time goes on, but maybe if we lynch somebody with actual associative potential tonight we'll get more input on whether there actually is scum in between these two.
Fenrir - I actually liked his one big post he made but that along with his weird EoD votes don't look good in light of Athena's flip. Probably the most likely of my null players to be scum. But I'm not 100% sold on it.
Probably Scum and I've already mentioned bits and pieces about why, might try to make a more cohesive case tomorrow but right now I just really, really want to sleep:
YOLO and Claire.
Quick question for all of the YOLO/Claire/Fenrir people though (and I know, I'm one of them): If the entire scumteam is in those three players, then what exactly is scum thinking? Like this whole deal between YOLO and Claire doesn't make sense, if they both die and Fenrir is the remaining scum, the game is over for them. Why isn't YOLO bussing Fenrir instead of Claire? Claire is 10x more useful as a scumbuddy. If member #4 is a lurker like Fenrir or FJP, then scum should desperately be trying to keep one non-lurker member alive, and bussing that member instead of the lurker would be lunacy.
I will ponder the above question tomorrow. Anyway, goodnight.
And I get why Fenrir looks bad, but the push on him feels like a lazy attempt to gain points by going with a less widely-accepted case. The guy's posted almost nothing while the other top wagons have tons of content to analyze. Fenrir comes across to me like a townie who spent hardly any time reading the thread, and if he actually is mafia, he's prime real estate for bussing due to his lackluster content and lack of strong associations.
Though I guess by defending him I'm turning myself into an association to be analyzed if he gets yeeted, so... maybe that's the intended purpose of voting him? Okay then, I probably shouldn't be saying this in public but whatever.
So basically, you have a point. Since we're apparently dealing with a really bad scumteam (I'm actually having second thoughts about whether Claire/YOLO can actually be a thing because of how horribly they've played if that's the case) I can't rule out what you're saying. I still feel pretty confident in my case (and Supa's better version of my case) on YOLO, though. I'm fine to go either way.
I'm with Supa. There's nothing I could say that he didn't say better, so I'm going to do a quotewall instead.
Somewhere in here YOLO does, however, actually post his case against Dunn. I thought I had it multi-quoted, but apparently I did not. Anyway, it isn't a terrible case, but it's pretty weak compared to how much faith he puts in it.
So that's my biggest problem with YOLO: Why the heck is he voting his strongest townread now? What happened between EoD and right now that made him go from "Dunn's scum fakeclaiming doc LOL and Claire's towniest town" to "there's scum between Dunn and Claire?" Is his current "gut feeling" really strong enough to overthrow his primary D1 case?
I understand people changing their opinions drastically because of surprising flips or role mechanics. But tossing out almost all of your D1 content because of a "gut instinct" that you get at the point in the game where there's so much actual evidence to go off of makes no sense. What the heck was YOLO even doing D1 if it turns out his confidence in his cases was this paper-thin?
"I have a gut feeling that either my strongest townread or the person I've tunneled all game are scum, so I'm going to vote my strongest townread." YOLO's behavior so far has been that of desperate scum caving to public opinion and potentially bussing a buddy so they can redeem themselves to town.
And I checked for Athena associations. There isn't anything that stands out really. If there's a post that's supposed to look like "scum would never say this about their buddy!" then you'll have to point it out to me. There's nothing too condemning, but nothing really great either. YOLO just said "Athena is scummy" a bunch of times without giving a reason why and then came back to see them getting yeeted and supported it.
I'm not one to toot my own horn, but there's more content and logic in this post than YOLO has shown in the entire game.
I've got to go to a concert, and I won't be back by DL. I suppose one of the most informational yeets we have right now is Dunn, and nothing will progress YOLO/Claire/Makaze's slots along better than lynching there. So I'm not particularly upset about this lynch, but I'm leaving my vote on Ariadne in case y'all want to swivel. Here's hoping we catch scum. Sully out.
I forgot to mention Athena. Unfortunately, there's not much I have to say there. His early posts didn't stand out to me at all, but his more recent posts are really bad. And settling his vote on Bartozio... does Athena have some personal rule about only voting for people who have barely posted?
Okay, I'm LOVING this back-and-forth between Supa and Claire. And I actually do agree with Supa to an extent here: If YOLO is really so passionate about yeeting Dunn, then why is most of his content just urging people to vote him instead of making an actual case?
The primary reason I've townread YOLO is because of the passion with which he pursues his reads, which strikes me as extremely risky for scum. I barely remember IDNSFMM5, but wasn't YOLO scum in that game, doing pretty much the same thing?
Yeah, I'm tentatively rescinding my townread on YOLO. Naturally, that also is a bad look for Claire. She's been defending him pretty fiercely, and like... this is going to sound crazy, but she sounds like YOLO. It's like she's literally taking words from his mouth, or using a defense he's constructed. I know it's weird, but... that's what I feel like is happening! There's something similar about their posting.
I think part of it is that the way Claire is hard-defending YOLO while he's offline is basically the same way YOLO hard-defended Makaze while they were offline. Could just be a coincidence, but it feels weirdly structured. This probably isn't going to make any sense to any of you, so I'll end this tangent here.
Also I know this looks bad on my part, but I really do feel like the best place for Makaze and Shinori's slots to be is under constant pressure, which they are both providing for each other. That's where I feel like they'll be easiest to solve. I don't think we're in a rush to off one of them, though. They can keep doing... whatever they're doing through D2. It'll only make things easier for the rest of us.
I'm still not entirely against a Dunn yeet, but my confidence there has been shaken. His content just doesn't feel towny to me and Fenrir made a good point about his behavior in Arctic. I played Arctic too, and while IIRC Dunn posted a lot less there than he has here, it was generally the same kind of stuff. But the prospect of scum!YOLO makes me uncertain as to whether this is actually scum, or a weak player scum thinks they can get away with pushing.
Ariadne's content continues to disappoint, and she'd be a fairly informational yeet based on the opinions other players have taken on her. Her last post in particular bugged me. I don't like the way she used "I haven't played Mafia in a while" as an excuse for her weak content. Like, that's true of most of us here (I think). It didn't strike me as a town defense at all. I feel like town would have actually explained why their reads were what they were, instead of apologizing and coming up with an excuse for why they were bad. What she did just looks like buckling under public pressure to draw less attention.
I'm confident enough to put a vote here.
As a final note, yeeting FJP would be stupid right now. I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about this on this site, but there's this thing that happens when a slot is inactive for a very long time and it will probably happen to FJP soon...
I might independently come to the same conclusion as you, however.
One thing I want feedback on, though. I really don't feel like YOLO/Makaze could possibly be w/w, just because it's way too reckless for YOLO to go out on such a limb defending a buddy when they're on the chopping block. Anybody else get that vibe?
Okay so Dunn actually does flesh out his Claire read in p#661. I didn't see that. Oops.
Regardless, I'm feeling comfortable with a yeet on Dunn TBH. It's not a slot I like a lot, and it would net some nice associatives. Better than most of the alternatives, though I guess I could see Makaze or Shinori being better if one of them slips up.
Also I was going to make a unique point about why FJP and Athena are top lynches when they've hardly posted, but Woopons stole that from me. I agree with their p#665 wholeheartedly. Like, yeah, the two look bad, but they'll probably come around and post more before the day is through and then we'll have some better material to work with.
For real, Dunn. You can do better than just showing up to state the obvious when it happens to support your cause. You should devote your energy to fleshing out your read on Chelsea, not making cheap material like this.
Also where the flip is Shinori on your readslist? I feel like he's said enough that everyone should have an opinion on him by this point.
Somewhat important question: Would I know Ariadne by a different name? They're the only player here I don't think I knew previously.
Please. If you thought it was a dumb question, you could have just said so.
Because all of the towncred you should get for being townie just gets taken away when you go out and say "NOTICE MY TOWNIE BEHAVIOR!" You shouldn't have to call attention to it, there are sixteen other players in the game who can do that for you. Pointing it out on your own behalf just makes it all the more likely that you were only acting that way to "look" townie, not because you actually are town.
Why didn't anyone tell me that the game started? I missed my favorite part of the game! Now the family reunion is over, and the family murderfest is in full swing.
As a bit of a disclaimer (although I can see this sentiment is shared by other players) while I remember playing Mafia with most of you in the past, I don't remember any of your metas. If I did remember your metas, that would probably still be useless information, because it's been two years and you people have probably changed over that time. There is one exception to this, however: I played a game with Claire a few months ago. She was scum in that game, and I failed miserably at reading her. I also got reported to the staff for flirting with her. Oops!
Another disclaimer: I think the "L-word" has fallen out of favor here, so I'll be using my preferred alternative: "Yeet!"
I just finished giving the 11 previous pages a quick read. Honestly, there wasn't much that stood out to me, but I'll comment on a few things that did.
First off, Claire's behavior seems pretty normal to me. In the scum game I mentioned before, she was RPing as a self-deprecating little girl from Danganronpa. She wasn't what I would call "aggressive," but she was definitely scum. She tends to let her RP consume her behavior in-game, and it can be annoying to deal with. I certainly don't townread Claire, but I think reading her based on her tone is silly. Catching scum!Claire takes finesse, as she is pretty good at this game. If Claire is getting what she wants and town isn't winning, then she's probably scum. That's my read on her. She's not someone I would ever trust my read on enough to yeet Day 1.
I can see why Mak Daddy's behavior raises some red flags for folks, but I'm not sold on that yet. They're defending themself pretty earnestly, where I think the optimal scum play would be to downplay the arguments against them. I feel like they're treating other people's opinions (Shinori excluded) as valid, even when they are critical of them. It's the kerfuffle with Shinori that has me interested. This definitely isn't between two scum. I feel like both of their attacks against each other have weight, and I look forward to seeing how things develop there.
Amy's early content strikes me as towny, but then she made that post where she said "I'll be obviously town in a little bit" and her content quality dropped off right after that. She started out as one of the primary influencing voices in the game, but dipped once stuff actually started happening. That's always seemed scummy in my opinion, but I don't think I've ever actually caught scum successfully in Mafia, so maybe my opinions need to be adjusted.
I feel like I can trust YOLO. Supa made a great point about how he included people unlikely to be scum together in his readslist. That feels like the kind of thing mafia would overlook mentioning. And on that note, Supa seems alright too, though I haven't done any deep reading yet.
Bart, Mack, and Athena all seem okay for now. These three have always given me a sort of "clique-y" vibe due to their abnormal timezones. I would place great weight in their reads on each other.
Marth also has a funny timezone, but I didn't see anything in his posts that I can remember now. He might join the above clique if he puts in more content.
Ariadne and FJP feel like they're getting a ton of attention over some lackluster posts. Their content just strikes me as lazy, not particularly scummy or anything. There's so many players in this game, and it wouldn't surprise if there was at least one lazy scum player present. But there's just not that much content to read them on.
And part of this is me just being glad that he's here, but I like Paperblade's content so far. He's made some fresh posts without feeling like he's posturing, and the amount of effort he's putting in probably wouldn't come from scum!Paperblade. That's based off of a personality read, though. Pretty sure I've never played Mafia with the guy.
Also, I didn't know this was a Christian website! All this time, I thought people were self-censoring to be considerate of me! But it's cool that the admins here won't let you swear! Sully approves!
(I'll do a bit more reading and come up with some questions to ask in a moment. For now, dinner beckons.)