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Thread: Mod Team Q&A

  1. ISO #1101
    Wants It Most Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    For the love of everything SB

    Shtap

  2. ISO #1102
    Always 3p SmartBomb's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1101)
    For the love of everything SB

    Shtap
    My natural state is walls.

  3. ISO #1103
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartBomb (#1102)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1101)
    For the love of everything SB

    Shtap
    My natural state is walls.

  4. ISO #1104
    vast tonal gap Lissa's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1098)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#1053)
    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1049)
    I think that Soah is basically asking: Is there a way for a host to get some general information from the mods about a player on whether they are going to be "problematic" in some kind of way and thus worth blacklisting? Like possibly a green/blue/yellow/orange/red scale in terms of how often that players behaviour disrupted games in the past.
    well, this literally doesn't exist in any form for [non-rulebreaking and not even borderline but game-disruptive behavior ie bad fps that people read as gamethrowing, obnoxious style, etc]. it just doesn't. we don't track that.

    and it doesn't really exist in any form that could easily be turned into such a scale for actual moderated behavior either. like that's not how our logs really work. they're a list of actions and/or noteworthy behavior with links to relevant threads.

    i also have a significant philosophical issue with it on that wide of a scale, for this kind of context. i'm having trouble articulating it, but there's more to a person's behavior than what you're describing. time since, concentration, reaction, etc. and most instances of moderated behavior are not actually individually something i would call "disruptive", exactly, though you may be using that word differently than i am.

    and also it's just, way way more information than i'd ever be comfortable sharing about moderation. feels shamey.
    Ok i guess she never implied that only actionable stuff was logged. And she's talking about bad play more than bad behaviour.


    But non-actionable things being logged seems like a new revelation for this thread all the same...
    it’s largely borderline-type stuff that builds up into going over the line as a pattern

    is what the “not even borderline” was referring to
    Quote Originally Posted by benneh (#28799)
    she's hard defended 90% of the dead wolves and the whole thread still wants to wish her happy birthday

  5. ISO #1105
    User title goes here. Voxxicus's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1098)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#1053)
    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1049)
    I think that Soah is basically asking: Is there a way for a host to get some general information from the mods about a player on whether they are going to be "problematic" in some kind of way and thus worth blacklisting? Like possibly a green/blue/yellow/orange/red scale in terms of how often that players behaviour disrupted games in the past.
    well, this literally doesn't exist in any form for [non-rulebreaking and not even borderline but game-disruptive behavior ie bad fps that people read as gamethrowing, obnoxious style, etc]. it just doesn't. we don't track that.

    and it doesn't really exist in any form that could easily be turned into such a scale for actual moderated behavior either. like that's not how our logs really work. they're a list of actions and/or noteworthy behavior with links to relevant threads.

    i also have a significant philosophical issue with it on that wide of a scale, for this kind of context. i'm having trouble articulating it, but there's more to a person's behavior than what you're describing. time since, concentration, reaction, etc. and most instances of moderated behavior are not actually individually something i would call "disruptive", exactly, though you may be using that word differently than i am.

    and also it's just, way way more information than i'd ever be comfortable sharing about moderation. feels shamey.
    Ok i guess she never implied that only actionable stuff was logged. And she's talking about bad play more than bad behaviour.


    But non-actionable things being logged seems like a new revelation for this thread all the same...
    Mm. I think it's more accurate to say "relevant, but not actionable based on this one occurance/incident" things get logged.

    If an argument in a game gets heated, and straddles the line between attacking the play and the player in a way that obviously isn't great, but not necessarily actionable given the user has a clean record of behavior, it'll probably not be acted upon, but we'll log it to establish a pattern of behavior in case something similar happens again.

    Something that isn't related to the scope of moderation wouldn't be logged at all, even if it was reported.

    There's a distinction that I just didn't really feel like getting into in that post (partially because I figured it was obvious).

  6. ISO #1106
    vast tonal gap Lissa's Avatar Moderator
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    also re sb’s last point

    yeah. pretty simple question. didn’t put a ton of thought into the exact language of the answer. I don’t think most people want the level of workshopping that would be behind a world where even that simple of an answer gets so fine tuned like that. And I don’t want that out of the q and a either.
    Quote Originally Posted by benneh (#28799)
    she's hard defended 90% of the dead wolves and the whole thread still wants to wish her happy birthday

  7. ISO #1107
    User title goes here. Voxxicus's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartBomb (#1102)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1101)
    For the love of everything SB

    Shtap
    My natural state is walls.

  8. ISO #1108
    Penalty Box LanMisa's Avatar
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    Whelp, I get the feeling that any kind of constructive criticism that I try to give is seen as a personal attack or criticism of the person who I am referring to. It feels like I'm actually getting the reverse effect of what I intend. So I'll just shut up for now and think about new ways to express myself.

    Indeed, SmartBomb. If there was no intent to get people to apply at the moment, then Lissa hit the right tone in her remark. I agree with you here.

    I know that this is a more informal place. But people are nonetheless asking about official positions of the team. We want to hear the Word of Mod. Please don't forget this on those questions.

    That's my take on the situation at least. I'm off now.

  9. ISO #1109
    Always 3p SmartBomb's Avatar Moderator
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    I have words and they're all grumpy. Sorry LanMisa.

  10. ISO #1110
    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1108)
    Whelp, I get the feeling that any kind of constructive criticism that I try to give is seen as a personal attack or criticism of the person who I am referring to. It feels like I'm actually getting the reverse effect of what I intend. So I'll just shut up for now and think about new ways to express myself.

    Indeed, SmartBomb. If there was no intent to get people to apply at the moment, then Lissa hit the right tone in her remark. I agree with you here.

    I know that this is a more informal place. But people are nonetheless asking about official positions of the team. We want to hear the Word of Mod. Please don't forget this on those questions.

    That's my take on the situation at least. I'm off now.
    No, actually, it’s coming off as pedantic and like you’re totally forgetting that the moderators are people who give up hours of the only life they live on earth to spend time making sure we havr a fun place to play a game.

    My take on the situation is that I asked a question, it got answered, bam.

    ——

    Like seriously — and this in general, the amount of bitching about the mods in this thread is incredibly high and honestly coming from a portion of the population that, for the most part, are showing a crippling lack of self-awareness here (this is not ALL directed at one person, brw).

    There have been really good questions and discussions in here. Anything related to a ban or about mod transparency has been my favorites.

    What has not been my favorite is the amount of whining and complaining going on. “Coaching sounds condescending “... what would you have wanted, someone to message you in your box to say, “hey jackass, stop breaking the rules”? “The tone is like they’re talking down to me”... that’s a you issue, but honestly you deserve to be talked down to a little, because you acted below the standard that MU expects everyone to be up to on this website. Moderators are often also our friends, but in another way, they are the police of the site. Let me know the next time you get pulled over for speeding if you feel like the “cop was being condescending” or if you’re just embarrassed to have gotten scolded in the first place.

    By the way, the use of actually as a word of incredible passive-aggressiveness has become so much its own trope that CollegeHumor made it its own game show.

    But in seriousness:

    I came to MU in 2016. I did not like the moderating back then. I am one of the few people ITT who has gotten banned and reintegrated back into our community. The moderation in these two-three years has grown so many leaps and bounds since then that it should be commended. It has gotten better in every single qualifiable way. I’m still impressed that they seem to respond to every single fresking report that comes in (even my stupid bull$#@! ones).

    But jesus people, the mods are human. If you don’t like your treeatment here, go break the rules in another community and find how fast that group dumps you out on your ass. You don’t like their “tone”? They don’t like you being a friggin’ nuisance.

    People don’t like how the mods address them. But holy crap the response to SmartBomb for basically giving a drawn out answer where he was like “yeah, I’m human, I ain’t changing that aspect” is ridiculous.

    And god forbid, if you want to play with no mod support or you hate how things are done, go play on [community we all know but I’m not allowed to say]. After your fifth game where people say the horrible $#@!ed up things they do there, you’d be realizing how this place is probably one of the best places to play this game on the entire internet.

    /soapbox
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's fucking with you.

  11. ISO #1111
    Manasi's Avatar
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    I heard someone is $#@!ting on twoplustwo in this thread and I will have none of it. Community bashing is against the CoC.
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    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  12. ISO #1112
    WIFOM Guy Logic's Avatar Game Manager
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    Lots of people say moderation is a thankless job (it isn't, hence all the love and support for the mods here. ) But it also doesn't get the kudos is deserves either (as exhibited by the griping against the mods.)

    I have received a single warning in my time here, for breaking a specific game event rule that I misinterpreted. I broke the letter of the rule thinking I was obeying the intent of the rule. In my warning, I did not get a feeling of condescension from the moderator* that responded. It was just a clear: "Hey, you broke rule #312, don't do that." I apologized and moved on, and I sincerely think the moderation team moved on as well.

    I don't know how others have been treated for breaking more significant rules, but I feel like the severity of the rule being broken is probably going to be met with appropriate language. In my limited time here, I have yet to hear of an unwarranted ban. Personally, the only thing I would like to see changed is the terminology for temporary bans to become "suspension."

    *Moderator left anonymous intentionally
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic
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  13. ISO #1113
    Wants It Most Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    None of the previous 3 posts invalidates the FEELINGS LanMisa, bop, or anyone else has or has had w.r.t. moderation.

    Just because you don't agree, or have not had a similar experience, doesn't mean that someone else does not FEEL differently or is not entitled to FEEL differently.

    Sometimes language is important in text-only communication.





    I think Round 2 has gone rather well, and i dont think anyone has come in here with anything other than the noble goal of trying to improve moderation on MU.

    Let's refrain from bashing people for doing so please



    ---


    The discussion about the phrasing of that one Lissa post was ridiculous but I blame everyone equally for that
    Last edited by Apoc; January 23rd, 2019 at 12:04 PM.

  14. ISO #1114
    WIFOM Guy Logic's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1113)
    None of the previous 3 posts invalidates the FEELINGS LanMisa, bop, or anyone else has or has had w.r.t. moderation.

    Just because you don't agree, or have not had a similar experience, doesn't mean that someone else does not FEEL differently or is not entitled to FEEL differently.

    Sometimes language is important in text-only communication.





    I think Round 2 has gone rather well, and i dont think anyone has come in here with anything other than the noble goal of trying to improve moderation on MU.

    Let's refrain from bashing people for doing so please



    ---


    The discussion about the phrasing of that one Lissa post was ridiculous but I blame everyone equally for that
    I understand. But I do hope my post wasn't read as bashing other people for not agreeing. That certainly was not my intent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic
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  15. ISO #1115
    Wants It Most Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    The kicker here is that Phighter probably also meant well...

    But we dont want people to feel like they should avoid giving their opinions yknow


    glgl

  16. ISO #1116
    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1115)
    The kicker here is that Phighter probably also meant well...

    But we dont want people to feel like they should avoid giving their opinions yknow


    glgl
    I just think people bitch because they're mad they broke a rule and got told off about it but yeah seconding your post not in my intention to like tell people not to voice their thoughts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's fucking with you.

  17. ISO #1117
    GOAT Tier DoubtingThomas's Avatar
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    @Phighter are you using size 0.5 fonts to cynically commend the usage of size 7 fonts?

  18. ISO #1118
    Season 4 Champion Dels's Avatar
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    For every time a person uses 0.5 font, it allows one usage of size 7 font elsewhere.

    All things must be balanced in the universe. Equivalent exchange.

  19. ISO #1119
    GOAT Tier DoubtingThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dels (#1118)
    For every time a person uses 0.5 font, it allows one usage of size 7 font elsewhere.

    All things must be balanced in the universe. Equivalent exchange.
    #Dels_for_Mod

  20. ISO #1120
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#1112)
    Lots of people say moderation is a thankless job (it isn't, hence all the love and support for the mods here. ) But it also doesn't get the kudos is deserves either (as exhibited by the griping against the mods.)

    I have received a single warning in my time here, for breaking a specific game event rule that I misinterpreted. I broke the letter of the rule thinking I was obeying the intent of the rule. In my warning, I did not get a feeling of condescension from the moderator* that responded. It was just a clear: "Hey, you broke rule #312, don't do that." I apologized and moved on, and I sincerely think the moderation team moved on as well.

    I don't know how others have been treated for breaking more significant rules, but I feel like the severity of the rule being broken is probably going to be met with appropriate language. In my limited time here, I have yet to hear of an unwarranted ban. Personally, the only thing I would like to see changed is the terminology for temporary bans to become "suspension."

    *Moderator left anonymous intentionally
    Actually would like the suspension word change too, it's what I'm used to and it makes more sense to me but it's a kind of petty thing
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    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  21. ISO #1121
    Is there a reason I can be told about a rude private message from a Moderator being deleted from my inbox without my knowledge?

  22. ISO #1122
    tokophobe lute's Avatar Head Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by For Reports (#1121)
    Is there a reason I can be told about a rude private message from a Moderator being deleted from my inbox without my knowledge?
    Private messages can't be deleted by any means I'm aware of.
    "THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS! Not anymore! Any one of them could have stood up and said, 'No, we will not behave like animals anymore!'"

  23. ISO #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#1122)
    Quote Originally Posted by For Reports (#1121)
    Is there a reason I can be told about a rude private message from a Moderator being deleted from my inbox without my knowledge?
    Private messages can't be deleted by any means I'm aware of.
    Well I had a conversation to Amy, told her about pms I was sent.

    I look in my inbox, and they happen to be gone?

    hmm well idk $#@! happens I guess

  24. ISO #1124
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    They may have been lost during the forum reset that happened.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol

  25. ISO #1125
    Banned
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    zara stole them

  26. ISO #1126
    rip cute Moonious's Avatar
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    Nothing against wolfy

    But do you see a precedent being set where you can rely on a permabanned users word to reverse a permaban?

    What's the point of setting conditions if the user can choose when to (not) listen and free pass if they change their mind?

    Steps that can be taken to avoid doing a reversal on permabans? As my understanding, permabans are issued when problems are eithet so severe or behavior believed to be unfixable?

    (Question partially copied from another user)

  27. ISO #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonious (#1126)
    Nothing against wolfy

    But do you see a precedent being set where you can rely on a permabanned users word to reverse a permaban?

    What's the point of setting conditions if the user can choose when to (not) listen and free pass if they change their mind?

    Steps that can be taken to avoid doing a reversal on permabans? As my understanding, permabans are issued when problems are eithet so severe or behavior believed to be unfixable?

    (Question partially copied from another user)
    we miscommunicated a lot

    i said (or at least i intended to) say that ill fix my behavior and stuff before the ban

    but it was unclear

    then i towncased myself pretty well in the appeal and managed to avoid the mislynch

  28. ISO #1128
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    or....

    am i still wolfing mooni?



    isn't this why Mafia is the greatest game in the world?

  29. ISO #1129
    WIFOM Guy Logic's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy (#1128)
    or....

    am i still wolfing mooni?



    isn't this why Mafia is the greatest game in the world?
    Answers like this make me nervous. I happen to vote to lynch these more often than not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic
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  30. ISO #1130
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?

  31. ISO #1131
    tokophobe lute's Avatar Head Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#1130)
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?
    @Lissa
    "THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS! Not anymore! Any one of them could have stood up and said, 'No, we will not behave like animals anymore!'"

  32. ISO #1132
    Penalty Box LanMisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#1130)
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?
    It's allowed for players doing it before a certain deadline. It's forbidden for players doing it afterwards.

    Amrock for example can alt around as much as he wants. I would be convicted of ban evasion.

  33. ISO #1133
    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1132)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#1130)
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?
    It's allowed for players doing it before a certain deadline. It's forbidden for players doing it afterwards.

    Amrock for example can alt around as much as he wants. I would be convicted of ban evasion.
    ...that makes no sense
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's fucking with you.

  34. ISO #1134
    Penalty Box LanMisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1133)
    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1132)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#1130)
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?
    It's allowed for players doing it before a certain deadline. It's forbidden for players doing it afterwards.

    Amrock for example can alt around as much as he wants. I would be convicted of ban evasion.
    ...that makes no sense
    And yet it is the truth.

    A loophole was fixed at some point regarding that, but not applied retroactively.

  35. ISO #1135
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1133)
    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#1132)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#1130)
    What's the policy on players who create alts to circumvent requested self-bans?
    It's allowed for players doing it before a certain deadline. It's forbidden for players doing it afterwards.

    Amrock for example can alt around as much as he wants. I would be convicted of ban evasion.
    ...that makes no sense
    We decided that it would be unfair and scummy to change up things for people who had requested a self-ban when there was a different premise tbh
    But there are new times now!

  36. ISO #1136
    vast tonal gap Lissa's Avatar Moderator
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    People who are self banned are not currently allowed to evade it by making new alts. For a period of time, they were. The people who requested self bans during that period of time got grandfathered in because those were the conditions they requested the self ban under the expectation of having in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by benneh (#28799)
    she's hard defended 90% of the dead wolves and the whole thread still wants to wish her happy birthday

  37. ISO #1137
    Wants It Most Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#1136)
    People who are self banned are not currently allowed to evade it by making new alts. For a period of time, they were. The people who requested self bans during that period of time got grandfathered in because those were the conditions they requested the self ban under the expectation of having in place.
    I like that this new rule is more consistent, and means less Alts that arent Alts.

    But it does mean more work for you guys. Maybe people will self-ban less now tho?

  38. ISO #1138
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#1137)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#1136)
    People who are self banned are not currently allowed to evade it by making new alts. For a period of time, they were. The people who requested self bans during that period of time got grandfathered in because those were the conditions they requested the self ban under the expectation of having in place.
    I like that this new rule is more consistent, and means less Alts that arent Alts.

    But it does mean more work for you guys. Maybe people will self-ban less now tho?
    It sounds like it should be more work, and that is part of why they used to be allowed to make alts to self-ban evade!! However, in reality it is actually less work, where people generally don't seem to make alts to self-ban evade knowing we won't let them!!!

    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [3:54 AM] smartbom: please tell me more about these hentais

  39. ISO #1139
    Loansharking Blot Test Newcomb's Avatar Head Moderator
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    Alright, that's gonna do it for this round of the Q&A.

    Thanks to everyone who participated.

    o/

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