and miss alkane can be my first villager
and miss alkane can be my first villager
And as for drawing ire, I think some people can take it as a sign of being non Co operative or trying to discourage people from reading oneself, which doesn't make much sense as town.
Lissa I'm liking your reaction more and more.
It's good to establish a solid town block early on and watch to see how mafia try to fight getting boxed in.
I don't have an opinion of Prime atm as it seems he's doing nothing but seeking out reactions.
What's your view of the three of us who have neglected to post past games? It sounds like you're of the opinion it is a town-thing to do despite the lack of opinions on those who have neglected to.
What kind of possible information could give a town/scum read from those posts on Day 1? That is what Prime voted based off of right?
I, personally, won't bother with checking people's previous games cause it requires too much time to do reliably, especially since we're all Champs. They could also link games where they think they excelled as scum. This is a Champs game and I don't doubt all of us have had stellar scum performances. So, there is no reason for scum to not do it because of being afraid about being scum-read.
On that note, I will link my previous games in case anyone is actually interested, but it'll be after I get to my pc.
Argument-wise, Manti voted Mess for... well, as far as I can see, no particular reason. On the flip side, Mess seems to have voted Manti because what he said could be taken as him pre-emptively justifying future anti-Town plays with his prior reputation, (albeit with possible OMGUS bias), which is a sentiment I can get behind. The way Mess responded to getting hunted strikes me as a little suspicious, but that doesn't mean the case against Manti disappears as a result. (Though with that said, it's also possible that Manti was just mudslinging to see what sticks, and happened to score on Mess today.)
Should either one of them die and flip town today, from where I'm standing, the other one would seem to be the best lead to look at.
The "Do scum have daychat" seemed more like an attempt at town-telling. It should be easy enough to find out without asking in thread.
This doesn't mean scum won't vote for people who have 0 votes. Just that one shouldn't follow a knee jerk reaction when a wagon flips town.
I chuckled hard at that bio, Mantichora. Good stuff.
I'll post my thoughts as I read through the thread.
On another note: the daytalk question thing. I think we're reading into it a bit overmuch. I think it's more likely to just be idle curiosity than an elaborate scum mind-trick or mistake.
I like how you allude to a potential chain lynch in your post.
Ok, Manti gave a tentative town read on you for answering his question. I see now. That would be something I would call buddying-up. Especially for something so small. Manti is coming off as trying to score points with you.
I wasn't referring to Manti's pro-wagon stance. I was referring to you saying that if either flips town, the other is a good lead just because they're on "opposing" sides.
@king, it didn't look to me like Manti leaned town on lissa because of her answering him. It seemed like he was under the impression that if there is no daychat, then lissa might be town.
That's what the exchange liked like, especially because answering that question should not be reason to town read anyone.
EBWOP: looked* like
Also, about scum driven wagons, depends on the person. I like to personally believe that scum will tend to play safe, but that doesn't take into account players who are active as scum. It's not unheard of to have a wagon started by active scum.
Plus, now that I know what I'm looking at, the daychat stuff is worthy of notice. Originally I thought nothing of it, but upon conversing with Lissa about w/e was going on, it gave me reason to look back and see what I saw with Manti trying to buddyup to Lissa to whatever end Manti is shooting for.
Manti is worth looking at strictly because of the admitted bandwagon vote (bandwagon that has only 2 votes, but it is the principle that matters) as well as other moves such as the subtle buddying up with the daychat question and the big red text of wanting to be kept alive to guarantee a win.
Evidence is always hard to come by on Day 1 one way or the other, and even though it's a necessity for town to look for clues in everything, I find that more often than not the opinions or suspicions that form at this stage in the game turn out to be incorrect.
So in that vein, I'm reluctant to latch on to Manti's 'SAVE ME FOR AN EASY WIN' (paraphrasing here) but that could just be because I'm used to playing in games where people goof around and just say stuff, even if sometimes it's a genuine attempt to obfuscate their goals or alignment.
I'll also throw in my agreement that I don't think compiling a list of past games is indicative of being either pro-town or pro-scum and I'm among those who see no point in it and won't do it. Part of my motivation for participating in this tournament was to avoid a heavy meta. Besides, I can't remember off the top of my head which team I was on in which games, which games I've played in, how well I did, and which ones would be a good showcase to provide a concise picture of my playstyle. If anyone wants to know how I play they can visit the Temple and trawl through our mafia games themselves.
That's not at all how the interaction came off to me. Manti asked about daychat being on. Clarified it as mafia daychat (when someone asked what is this daychat thing). Then, after Lissa responded, Manti declared a tentative town read on Lissa. Anyone who read the rules (which I'm sure most of us did because why wouldn't you?) and answered Manti's post would likely have been issued the tentative town read from Manti.
I sincerely doubt there's anything more in depth to the entire thing than that (as there is little to even work with in regards to that).
The Neverending Story Day 1 Votecount
Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase) 3 Mantichora KingofDominaria (13), Teneb (1), Miss Alkane (2) 2 Messremb PrimeIntellect (4), Mantichora (10) 1 Lissa Iamnobody (7) 11 Not voting Marco (14), Messremb (11), XLAV (1), Beluga Whale (1), Haelbarde (9), BFG (7), Bitoku (1), Easy (5), VikeStep (8), Lissa (20), Necare (4)
View Vote History
Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, April 26th, 2016. There are 1461715260000 remaining.
Requested by Askthepizzaguy* at 1 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes, 5 seconds remaining.
As town, my first move isn't to show how I play as town but to instead just play my game and let things fall in place.
I kind of read the extensive display of previous meta in the same light as Vike's in the sense that although it does show he has nothing to hide, it doesn't seem like a townie's first move.
Also, I don't think previous meta is very helpful at reading people in a new game where mostly no one knows each other. My personal meta on my own site is very different from how I play here and even my game-to-game meta changes significantly.
Looking at previous games has helped me in the past but I don't think it's going to be worth my time sorting through all that info for every player in the game when I could be analyzing the actual game itself. I might glance at the previous games of players who have played on this site but I likely won't be going through any games on other communities.
But if anyone does want to see my previous games they should be accessible through the database function on this site.
More to come after lunch...
In my opinion, everything people say in Mafia means something....even the stuff from the first day. People are playing around, but everyone is always leaving clues whether they know it or not. This is a large red flag to me.
I'm not saying that we should ignore everything that happens on Day 1. Every scrap of information is valuable. I'm simply pointing out that, from my perspective at least, we should avoid the pitfall of letting our eagerness lead us to make hasty judgements about said information.
Come again? Here's your previous statement.
This is what spawned my response to you. Here you state your [impression of Manti] that if there is no daychat, then Lissa might be town (again from Manti's perspective so there is no confusion). I don't understand how you got this impression based on what I've said (that you've agreed with). I mean, you're agreeing with me so yay, but I have no idea how you went from here to agreeing with me. Or, rather, I don't see how that was your point so to speak.
Let me see if I'm on the same page as you.
You're essentially saying that Manti's tentative town lean on Lissa (spawned via Lissa answering Manti's question) has no actual basis, correct?
Them being against one another wasn't supposed to clear either of them. The idea here is that both of them have shown an interaction that isn't positive (positive in the sense that they're not trying to overtly agree with one another). Because of this, you coming out and saying either of them looks good to you while also entertaining the idea that if one of them flips town, then we should look at the other comes off as scummy (in my eyes).
That's where my chain lynch comment came from. No, you didn't directly say let's chain lynch. It's the impression though from your words when you say, "Well if one of them flips town, let's look at the other." Look at them to what end? To lynch? To throw posts at? etc etc
I won't lie. Where I hail from, D1s are muddled with that kind of talk. We lovingly refer to it as the "Joke Phase" of Day 1. It "ends" when things get serious which is arbitrary. Course, this isn't the place I hail from, so the obvious thing to note from that post is Necare's connection to Manti (via his commenting on Manti's "save me for easy win" words).
Last line is also baffling though my issue with it might be neutral semantics
Something just seems off about the perspective
Also based on these posts, I think Manti/Teneb and Manti/Mess scum interactions are unlikely.
It's also scummy to say you'll retract your scum read if they give you reason to. When I'm scum-hunting I want potential wolves to feel the pressure, and not to give them any comfort.
Also, how is Alkane towny?
It's not really a conditional read other than I find it sort of unlikely that two wolves would happen to pick me as their first townread close together? I wouldn't actually clear one if the other flipped wolf
They just both did the same wolfy thing so I lumped my reads based on it together
Well, to clarify, what I mean is that they both look a little fishier than everybody else, to me, the way things stand right now, and I don't see it as an either/or choice between them. Are they potentially just two Townies who don't trust each other? Very possible. More likely than not, even. Does one of them flipping town make the other one any more likely to be scum? Absolutely not, or at least no more than it does anybody else. I just want to be clear on avoiding a 'pick one or the other' sort of mentality.
Obviously, a number of different things could, and not unlikely will, potentially happen by Day 2 that would change that. Maybe there's an important investigation by the cop, maybe one of them flips scum, that sort of thing. I'll decide my Day 2 lynch on Day 2, like everybody else (I assume). When I say "look at," what I mean is that even after lynching one of them, especially if he comes up town, the discussion on the other should at least be continued.
Granted, with this crowd, that likely didn't need saying in the first place. But, y'know. Habit.
Alkane is pretty much just tone. Felt pure. I read it and thought "this is probably a villager"
Reminds me of villager alette a little
good evening :)
HELLO TO JASON ISAACS
I'm out to work, mobile only for the next 13 hours so apologies in advance for the formatting abominations that are likely
@King, you're saying the interaction looked like Manti town read lissa cause she answered his question and that this doesn't make sense.
I'm saying yes, it doesn't make sense, as why would you town read someone just because they answered a simple question that anyone could have answered.
But what I'm also saying is that the interaction didn't look like this. It looked like regardless of who answered his question, he would town-read lissa. Which doesn't really make sense either, but at least he may have some reason that I'm not seeing.