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Thread: New feature: SILENT HOST BLACKLIST

  1. ISO #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    I think this issue gets solved when the host and the blacklisted user have a conversation and come to a mutual agreement. Maybe its naive of me but I think its important to empower us as a community to use social pressure to correct some things.

    If it ever gets to a borderline level of bullying id be open to looking at it and creating a discussion improvements etc.

  2. ISO #52
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    I think this issue gets solved when the host and the blacklisted user have a conversation and come to a mutual agreement. Maybe its naive of me but I think its important to empower us as a community to use social pressure to correct some things.

    If it ever gets to a borderline level of bullying id be open to looking at it and creating a discussion improvements etc.
    I approve of the feature but like depending the host could also just flat out ignore list the user too. I wouldn't just assume that conversation will occur, nothing requires it to occur and some people may want it that way. I like this better than not having it but gotta acknowledge what comes with it imo.

    And it doesn't even need to be bullying, could just be flat out ignoring someone because you don't want to deal with them
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  3. ISO #53
    DaveDob's Groupie Duk3star's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#34)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#31)
    I have seen multiple instances of players signing up for games with hosts/rosters they're in public feuds with for the purpose of sabotaging games. It's not always a rule violation; it's pretty hard to prove someone is intentionally playing against their wincon even if past experience and out-of-game situations make it obvious to you personally. There are plenty of other reasonable reasons to blacklist a player, but it can be as essential as preserving basic game integrity.
    I mean this will boil down to an argument of JP vs. Lissa. Should JP be banned from any game Lissa is playing in simply because he's wanted to kill her in the past for non-game related reasons? I'd say no because you probably shouldn't police that unless it becomes such an issue that moderation needs to become involved.

    If both players want to play I don't think that's an issue. If both have in'd a game and one is uncomfortable with the presence of the other, let one step away from the game. It doesn't make any sense to completely bar one side from playing just so the other can imo.

    I feel like the number of times something like this has actually RUINED game integrity has been pretty slim... Maybe it's made a day or two slightly spammy/annoying but it has by no means ruined any games that I've seen at least.

    /shrug
    Im obviously not commenting on the JP vs Lissa thing. If a host doesnt want somebody in their game it has always been their right to not allow somebody to sign up. We have a ton of games that run here and i think its highly unlikely someone is universally blacklisted.

  4. ISO #54
    Manasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    I think this issue gets solved when the host and the blacklisted user have a conversation and come to a mutual agreement. Maybe its naive of me but I think its important to empower us as a community to use social pressure to correct some things.

    If it ever gets to a borderline level of bullying id be open to looking at it and creating a discussion improvements etc.
    I mean there are and have been cases of this that haven't even been entertained. I don't want that to continue with someone that's not confident enough to stand up to it or ask questions or figure out what's actually going on. Does that make sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  5. ISO #55
    Manasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#50)
    To the point of common courtesy, you are always free to ask the person why you were blacklisted and relay the response or lack thereof to others, and they can judge it as they see fit.

    It's definitely more courteous to offer someone a direct explanation, sure, but the feature doesn't change anything functionally. If I'm the sort to hide from difficult discussions, I was probably just ignoring someone's /in and randing the game without offering any explanation anyway this time two days ago.
    Yeah it's just a bit more of a callous "$#@! you" than a less abrasive "nah". That's all. I just think that acknowledging that is what people aren't really capable of doing right now because god bless host freedom and all that jazz but /shrug
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  6. ISO #56
    Manasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#52)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    I think this issue gets solved when the host and the blacklisted user have a conversation and come to a mutual agreement. Maybe its naive of me but I think its important to empower us as a community to use social pressure to correct some things.

    If it ever gets to a borderline level of bullying id be open to looking at it and creating a discussion improvements etc.
    I approve of the feature but like depending the host could also just flat out ignore list the user too. I wouldn't just assume that conversation will occur, nothing requires it to occur and some people may want it that way. I like this better than not having it but gotta acknowledge what comes with it imo.

    And it doesn't even need to be bullying, could just be flat out ignoring someone because you don't want to deal with them
    I should have said this in my last response to Shad but I'll say it here because I think it fits as a partial response to this too.

    I think that if you're ignoring someone because you don't want to deal with them, you should (I mean, ideally) be able to at least give them a little bit of constructive criticism on how to like...not be intolerable?

    Like for example, if Shad slanks like 10 games in a row and low posts or subs out randomly or x y z, you as the host could maybe be like "yeah well last few games you've slanked a bunch" like I said above. Obviously there's already a system in place for flaking but I think that if you do want to make the community a more self-moderating/self-sufficient place you should be able to at least have that conversation of constructive criticism to help the people that want to stick around as well.


    If it's an issue out of your control/comfort to talk about, maybe talk to a mod or something but at that point who knows if they're meant to be on the site.

    Duno.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  7. ISO #57
    Manasi's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot. I'm probably gonna call it quits for now but good chat y'all hope it works as smoothly as you want it to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  8. ISO #58
    Calculated. bopolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    I think this issue gets solved when the host and the blacklisted user have a conversation and come to a mutual agreement. Maybe its naive of me but I think its important to empower us as a community to use social pressure to correct some things.

    If it ever gets to a borderline level of bullying id be open to looking at it and creating a discussion improvements etc.
    i think you overestimate the chances of this conversation occuring.

    I know if i hosted a game and blacklisted people there is zero chance i'd be open to a conversation, one of the reasons is probably because they'd be already on my ignore/block list and wouldn't be able to get in touch with me.

    note: I support the feature but I think as is it's just gonna cause problems in either MU general discord or threads popping up about people salty about being banned, but hey at least then you won't have people asking why there are Teals anymore.
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  9. ISO #59
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    Just be like me, the people I blacklist know they don't even have a chance of getting into my games because I let them know how I feel about them during mafia games. So they don't even try. :smileyface:
    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  10. ISO #60
    Thumbs Up Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#37)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#36)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#34)
    Should JP be banned from any game Lissa is playing in simply because he's wanted to kill her in the past for non-game related reasons?
    If somebody like that is negatively impacting games, that's a great example of why blacklists are needed.
    What if someone does that without being as blatant about it? It still ruins the game but is incredibly hard to track. There's no gamebreaking / no breach of integrity / nothing to ban on. You might as well make a rule to ban them in that case so they don't just get pushed out via blacklist.
    Im not sure what you're arguing tbh

    Are you entirely sure yourself?


    Step 1: Complain that some people ruin games without doing bannable things

    Step 2: Complain about the new system (really an old system), that might coax these "ne'er-do-wells" out of the community and onto someplace else


    Step 3: ???

    Profit?

  11. ISO #61
    Thumbs Up Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Im not even gonna read the rest of these posts

    My guess if you guys are arguing in circles over and over and/or have gone very off topic

    \o/
    Last edited by Apoc; November 27th, 2018 at 01:23 PM.

  12. ISO #62
    Mantichora's Avatar Game Manager
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    I know I already have an informal blacklist i maintain. I also know other mods have the same. This feature, at a minimuma, is a good QoL update allowing automated enforcement.

    Whether or not this feature exists, I'm going to exclude the same pool of users from my games. I'm sure other hosts feel similarly.

  13. ISO #63
    Wants It More DoubtingThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantichora (#62)
    I know I already have an informal blacklist i maintain. I also know other mods have the same. This feature, at a minimuma, is a good QoL update allowing automated enforcement.

    Whether or not this feature exists, I'm going to exclude the same pool of users from my games. I'm sure other hosts feel similarly.
    what is it? pssst, you can tell me

  14. ISO #64
    Thread Analyst Kilted Man Ass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#37)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#36)
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#34)
    Should JP be banned from any game Lissa is playing in simply because he's wanted to kill her in the past for non-game related reasons?
    If somebody like that is negatively impacting games, that's a great example of why blacklists are needed.
    What if someone does that without being as blatant about it? It still ruins the game but is incredibly hard to track. There's no gamebreaking / no breach of integrity / nothing to ban on. You might as well make a rule to ban them in that case so they don't just get pushed out via blacklist.
    Im not sure what you're arguing tbh

    Are you entirely sure yourself?


    Step 1: Complain that some people ruin games without doing bannable things

    Step 2: Complain about the new system (really an old system), that might coax these "ne'er-do-wells" out of the community and onto someplace else


    Step 3: ???

    Profit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#61)
    Im not even gonna read the rest of these posts

    My guess if you guys are arguing in circles over and over and/or have gone very off topic

    \o/
    I know exactly what I’m arguing but people kept making points I also had to refute.


    This is a fine feature, but thinking it’s going to make anything better is naive. Even the slight confrontation of a host personally telling someone they don’t want them to play is better than this, where hosts don’t have an obligation to say anything - which in turn creates resentment. It’s not going to be fixable either given public conversation around it isn’t allowed either.

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    Thread Analyst Kilted Man Ass's Avatar
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    Soul Reader shortaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilted Man Ass (#64)
    Even the slight confrontation of a host personally telling someone they don’t want them to play is better than this, where hosts don’t have an obligation to say anything - which in turn creates resentment.
    You think players won't resent hosts telling them that they aren't welcome in their games?

  17. ISO #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#66)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilted Man Ass (#64)
    Even the slight confrontation of a host personally telling someone they don’t want them to play is better than this, where hosts don’t have an obligation to say anything - which in turn creates resentment.
    You think players won't resent hosts telling them that they aren't welcome in their games?
    I think that there's a chance that they resent them LESS because they actually had a conversation about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

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    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#29)
    As someone who probably would be on the end of this feature last year

    Like I get it

    But also this feels like bullying
    Disagree.

    The host is the one putting in all the work. Their job shouldn't be complicated by players they consider to be high risk for compromising game integrity.

    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    @shortaru

    “game integrity” or “players they think will be $#@!s”?
    Don't Mess With BDN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    This is kinda bull$#@! and can't actually be a real thought.

    If that's a real thought then if any host feels like they're truly being bullied then they should stick to exclusively hosting games on an invitational basis.




    That being said, the only thing I dislike is that there's a lack of any sort of empathy. Someone described it, either in this thread or in Discord in a way that I think is really relevant.

    It's similar to not allowing someone in your store, but instead of just saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," it's like slamming the door in their face. And the fact that the host doesn't even have to acknowledge that player at all is pretty $#@!ty fmpov and will probably just cause issues in the future.

    At some point there's going to be a group of "blacklisted players" that have accumulated through games because let's face it, we only have like five people hosting games regularly. If they choose to use the feature and somehow curate this "list" then it's $#@!ed and you're driving people out of a community based on something that can be hidden behind.

    Kinda ranty but I think it's a fine feature so long as hosts still treat the people on the blacklist as human beings and give them the time of day which definitely seems like something that will go away with time given the rules around the feature itself.

    God bless.
    This.
    Don't Mess With BDN

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    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    I’m not going to lie any argument that isn’t about wherher or not hosts should have options to ban people for perceiving them to be $#@!s seems like a very polite circumventing of a larger overall issue

    And then on that topic, I think it’s fair if it’s a repeated history, but I don’t think the actions in one damn game should be a reason for anyone to be kept from playing, unless that behavior is a bannable offense.

    I know I have been a prickly $#@! and have even gotten banned for doing so.
    I appreciate that I have been forcibly given time to get better and I think mostly I have gotten better, but multiple factors factor into days of games where that’s not the case.

    I think where @Manasi gets worried is that this has the strong potential to become an exclusive community, and what’s worse is the admin who said that the community should selfregulate. No, that’s not, nor should it be the job of the community. I would not be here on MU if these rules were in play back in 2016. I know it. We can’t pick the players we want —- lart of being inclusive means that, up until players do something bannable, you include people. This ruling I feel goes against the core of what this community is. For a community hat is the only one I go on to mark gender the way we do and to be truly accepting, to turn around and be able to exclude people because they had a bad day/game whatever is a huge step in the opposite direction.

    If hosts don’t want someone in their game, they should have to send that message. If they’re scared of it, that’s a character issue on their behalf —— and hey, if they DO get an inapppropriate response, then it’ll turn out they were justified when that player gets bannez. Just not a minute before.
    Don't Mess With BDN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#68)
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#30)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#29)
    As someone who probably would be on the end of this feature last year

    Like I get it

    But also this feels like bullying
    Disagree.

    The host is the one putting in all the work. Their job shouldn't be complicated by players they consider to be high risk for compromising game integrity.

    Trying to force hosts to accept such players is more akin to bullying, imho.
    @shortaru

    “game integrity” or “players they think will be $#@!s”?
    They're not mutually exclusive.

    Toxic players compromise the game by making it unenjoyable for others.

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    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#70)
    I’m not going to lie any argument that isn’t about wherher or not hosts should have options to ban people for perceiving them to be $#@!s seems like a very polite circumventing of a larger overall issue

    And then on that topic, I think it’s fair if it’s a repeated history, but I don’t think the actions in one damn game should be a reason for anyone to be kept from playing, unless that behavior is a bannable offense.

    I know I have been a prickly $#@! and have even gotten banned for doing so.
    I appreciate that I have been forcibly given time to get better and I think mostly I have gotten better, but multiple factors factor into days of games where that’s not the case.

    I think where @Manasi gets worried is that this has the strong potential to become an exclusive community, and what’s worse is the admin who said that the community should selfregulate. No, that’s not, nor should it be the job of the community. I would not be here on MU if these rules were in play back in 2016. I know it. We can’t pick the players we want —- lart of being inclusive means that, up until players do something bannable, you include people. This ruling I feel goes against the core of what this community is. For a community hat is the only one I go on to mark gender the way we do and to be truly accepting, to turn around and be able to exclude people because they had a bad day/game whatever is a huge step in the opposite direction.

    If hosts don’t want someone in their game, they should have to send that message. If they’re scared of it, that’s a character issue on their behalf —— and hey, if they DO get an inapppropriate response, then it’ll turn out they were justified when that player gets bannez. Just not a minute before.
    The fact is that people do not do this even when they want to, and then report the behavior to moderators instead. It happens time and time again. It is something that the user base should handle socially, like a normal social environment, unless it is actually a rule break, in which case it can be moderated.

    The way certain moderator-like actions by hosts on their players have been handled in the past should tell you that standards for this kind of browbeating are enforced and looked down on, and hosts who make the community toxic will be handled by moderators if necessary. The dangers of hosts shaming with features like this is non-existent compared to what you are talking about.

    If you believe that you or someone else would have been excluded because of this feature, try to imagine what could have changed the behavior that caused the situation, and if anything else could have changed you besides host moderation or a ban. If you think there is another way for the community to discourage toxic behaviors without either self-regulation or moderation, I am interested in hearing them.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
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  23. ISO #73
    Banned
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    gonna blacklist people based on avatar also

    I want to thank everyone that tries to play Mafia fair and civil, doesn't try to win arguments by "being louder", doesn't insult anybody even when being insulted first and actively tries to point out and correct problematic behaviour in the game. I prefer games without drama, and I want to thank everybody who works to make this place a more enjoyable one.


    also my ban is over so unban me on discord
    Last edited by Zarathustra; December 3rd, 2018 at 09:50 AM.

  24. ISO #74
    Queen of MU SpankGangsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra (#73)
    gonna blacklist people based on avatar also

    I want to thank everyone that tries to play Mafia fair and civil, doesn't try to win arguments by "being louder", doesn't insult anybody even when being insulted first and actively tries to point out and correct problematic behaviour in the game. I prefer games without drama, and I want to thank everybody who works to make this place a more enjoyable one.


    also my ban is over so unban me on discord
    Lets unban FA
    I owe Takhitty ₤200 for my gambling addiction
    I owe Takhitty ₤200 for my gambling addiction
    I owe Takhitty ₤200 for my gambling addiction
    I owe Takhitty ₤200 for my gambling addiction
    I owe Takhitty ₤200 for my gambling addiction

  25. ISO #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankGangsta (#74)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra (#73)
    gonna blacklist people based on avatar also

    I want to thank everyone that tries to play Mafia fair and civil, doesn't try to win arguments by "being louder", doesn't insult anybody even when being insulted first and actively tries to point out and correct problematic behaviour in the game. I prefer games without drama, and I want to thank everybody who works to make this place a more enjoyable one.


    also my ban is over so unban me on discord
    Lets unban FA
    #JusticeForSIUandKami

  26. ISO #76
    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra (#75)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankGangsta (#74)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra (#73)
    gonna blacklist people based on avatar also

    I want to thank everyone that tries to play Mafia fair and civil, doesn't try to win arguments by "being louder", doesn't insult anybody even when being insulted first and actively tries to point out and correct problematic behaviour in the game. I prefer games without drama, and I want to thank everybody who works to make this place a more enjoyable one.


    also my ban is over so unban me on discord
    Lets unban FA
    #JusticeForSIUandKami
    WARNING: MASSIVE HYPOCRISY INCOMING
    If this rule keeps them out of all the games I’ll play in the future, I’m down though

    Or at least away from each other
    Don't Mess With BDN

  27. ISO #77
    GOAT Tier Creature's Avatar
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    Hype to test inning every signup thread.
    Can't post on thursdays!

    Don't make stupid mistakes!

  28. ISO #78
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#70)
    I think where @Manasi gets worried is that this has the strong potential to become an exclusive community, and what’s worse is the admin who said that the community should selfregulate. No, that’s not, nor should it be the job of the community. I would not be here on MU if these rules were in play back in 2016. I know it. We can’t pick the players we want —- lart of being inclusive means that, up until players do something bannable, you include people. This ruling I feel goes against the core of what this community is. For a community hat is the only one I go on to mark gender the way we do and to be truly accepting, to turn around and be able to exclude people because they had a bad day/game whatever is a huge step in the opposite direction.
    I think that's exactly what it should be, why should we have to play with or host for people we don't like or enjoy how they play?

    Some people suck and if they are a turd monkey and they don't do anything bannable good riddance imo.
    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  29. ISO #79
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    In my personal (maybe not everyone's) ideal world, hosts and other players will try to confront and instill responsibility into unpleasant players after their games, and use the possibility of blacklisting as a tool to make that happen. I think a tool and moderator stance like this inspires them to do something they already could, but with the added benefit of no retaliation without moderator intervention if the user is being difficult.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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  30. ISO #80
    Tunnel King Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#78)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#70)
    I think where @Manasi gets worried is that this has the strong potential to become an exclusive community, and what’s worse is the admin who said that the community should selfregulate. No, that’s not, nor should it be the job of the community. I would not be here on MU if these rules were in play back in 2016. I know it. We can’t pick the players we want —- lart of being inclusive means that, up until players do something bannable, you include people. This ruling I feel goes against the core of what this community is. For a community hat is the only one I go on to mark gender the way we do and to be truly accepting, to turn around and be able to exclude people because they had a bad day/game whatever is a huge step in the opposite direction.
    I think that's exactly what it should be, why should we have to play with or host for people we don't like or enjoy how they play?

    Some people suck and if they are a turd monkey and they don't do anything bannable good riddance imo.
    I mean some people do really $#@!ing suck, I agree and can think of players who never added good value to games I played with

    I'm just worried more for the players who aren't complete $#@!heads but are $#@!heads once

    Also, like -- I have a certain style to me. It gets yelly, it gets aggressive, I like to say I'm just passionate/competitive. Are you telling me it's acceptable to ban me from games for playstyle?
    Don't Mess With BDN

  31. ISO #81
    GOAT Tier Jaleb's Avatar
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    Can't wait to be blacklisted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empoof (#4961)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#2147)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#2142)
    Wiggles is in this game

    heh feels like I should need to be reminded of that
    He and Duke are wolf partners. I've already pinged them a few times.
    it was jaleb

    @Jaleb is a god

  32. ISO #82
    Amberguard Emberguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#17)
    The more I think about it, the less of a problem this is. If a user blocks a mod to avoid moderation, or blocks all mods, they are probably getting into trouble for it, and I can intervene.
    I'm assuming they wouldn't block you as well :P

    [Edit 1]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#33)
    If members get blacklisted by FIVE hosts, pretty sure the system isn't the problem.

    IJS.
    That depends on the specifics. I've seen in a community before where the moment one hosts says "you're not joining my next game because you're annoying" everyone else starts making similar statements to the point where if anyone had actually gone through with it (no one did) then there wouldn't have been a game left to play.

    I understand that there may be instances where a specific player is better off taking a break or not playing at all. But that's what moderation is for. I'm not too fond of blacklists outside of players that are actually banned by the moderators as depending on the host creating the blacklist it could be anything from something that's a genuine problem to a petty reason such as just not liking them.

    Hopefully it won't be used for petty squabbles. Hopefully it'll only be used where it's genuinely needed. But the host needs to remember it's not about them alone. The players are as much a part of the game as they are.

    [Edit 2]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#39)
    *shrug*

    That's up to the host.

    I avoid the problem by not being a douchebag.
    Now here's the problem. Not everyone knows what they're doing wrong! We all come from different cultures. Some more direct then others. And what I've noticed is anyone from similar cultures get along just fine (most of the time). But those with english as the second, third, whatever language are more likely to react to offence quicker, and also get picked on far more due to difference in cultural understanding.

    It's not as simple as "not being a jerk" - if you as the recipient aren't able to be patient with someone that comes across as being a jerk without meaning to be then that's also being a jerk.

    Not everyone has the same mannerisms. Being rude isn't a crime. It's annoying to people if someone is too blunt or critical, and we can explain to them how we interpret the way they present themselves, but I don't think being a jerk is something that should exclude anyone from playing unless it goes too far and actually breaks a rule. Especially if they're not deliberately trying to be malicious
    Last edited by Emberguard; December 5th, 2018 at 04:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psalm 24
    3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
    4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
    5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

  33. ISO #83
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#80)
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#78)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#70)
    I think where @Manasi gets worried is that this has the strong potential to become an exclusive community, and what’s worse is the admin who said that the community should selfregulate. No, that’s not, nor should it be the job of the community. I would not be here on MU if these rules were in play back in 2016. I know it. We can’t pick the players we want —- lart of being inclusive means that, up until players do something bannable, you include people. This ruling I feel goes against the core of what this community is. For a community hat is the only one I go on to mark gender the way we do and to be truly accepting, to turn around and be able to exclude people because they had a bad day/game whatever is a huge step in the opposite direction.
    I think that's exactly what it should be, why should we have to play with or host for people we don't like or enjoy how they play?

    Some people suck and if they are a turd monkey and they don't do anything bannable good riddance imo.
    I mean some people do really $#@!ing suck, I agree and can think of players who never added good value to games I played with

    I'm just worried more for the players who aren't complete $#@!heads but are $#@!heads once

    Also, like -- I have a certain style to me. It gets yelly, it gets aggressive, I like to say I'm just passionate/competitive. Are you telling me it's acceptable to ban me from games for playstyle?
    You're taking this personally, your style is certainly aggressive and can be frustrating but you're playing the game. I think as long as you're playing the game most people should have no issue man, for me this will at least be for those who lack respect for hosts and the other players.
    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  34. ISO #84
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emberguard (#82)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#17)
    The more I think about it, the less of a problem this is. If a user blocks a mod to avoid moderation, or blocks all mods, they are probably getting into trouble for it, and I can intervene.
    I'm assuming they wouldn't block you as well :P

    [Edit 1]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#33)
    If members get blacklisted by FIVE hosts, pretty sure the system isn't the problem.

    IJS.
    That depends on the specifics. I've seen in a community before where the moment one hosts says "you're not joining my next game because you're annoying" everyone else starts making similar statements to the point where if anyone had actually gone through with it (no one did) then there wouldn't have been a game left to play.

    I understand that there may be instances where a specific player is better off taking a break or not playing at all. But that's what moderation is for. I'm not too fond of blacklists outside of players that are actually banned by the moderators as depending on the host creating the blacklist it could be anything from something that's a genuine problem to a petty reason such as just not liking them.

    Hopefully it won't be used for petty squabbles. Hopefully it'll only be used where it's genuinely needed. But the host needs to remember it's not about them alone. The players are as much a part of the game as they are.

    [Edit 2]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#39)
    *shrug*

    That's up to the host.

    I avoid the problem by not being a douchebag.
    Now here's the problem. Not everyone knows what they're doing wrong! We all come from different cultures. Some more direct then others. And what I've noticed is anyone from similar cultures get along just fine (most of the time). But those with english as the second, third, whatever language are more likely to react to offence quicker, and also get picked on far more due to difference in cultural understanding.

    It's not as simple as "not being a jerk" - if you as the recipient aren't able to be patient with someone that comes across as being a jerk without meaning to be then that's also being a jerk.

    Not everyone has the same mannerisms. Being rude isn't a crime. It's annoying to people if someone is too blunt or critical, and we can explain to them how we interpret the way they present themselves, but I don't think being a jerk is something that should exclude anyone from playing unless it goes too far and actually breaks a rule. Especially if they're not deliberately trying to be malicious
    I reserve the right to deny unintentional jerks from my game, it's not my responsibility to educate people, I just wanna enjoy reading my mafia game that I'm hosting. I don't believe that makes me a jerk.
    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  35. ISO #85
    Manasi's Avatar
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    Just want to throw out there that hosting a mafia game shouldn’t solely be for the hosts enjoyment. Wiggles, you’re speaking about it from a pretty selfish POV where you feel entitled to like, watch your monkeys dance in a game. I think a host hosts a game for the players, not for their own enjoyment - maybe that’s where we differ. It changes a lot about the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


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  36. ISO #86
    Soul Reader LanMisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#85)
    Just want to throw out there that hosting a mafia game shouldn’t solely be for the hosts enjoyment. Wiggles, you’re speaking about it from a pretty selfish POV where you feel entitled to like, watch your monkeys dance in a game. I think a host hosts a game for the players, not for their own enjoyment - maybe that’s where we differ. It changes a lot about the argument.
    Coming from an outsiders perspective, I believe that it should be both. Fortunately both goals are normally aligned, with the games most fun for the host are the ones where the players also enjoy themselves to the fullest and vice versa. I hope at least that there aren't any game hosts who want to see the players struggle and despair by design.

    Talking to several hosts in private gave me the feeling that many of them treasure their games as something that belongs to them. They feel responsible for all shortcomings and possible problems and feel bad if something doesn't work as intended. I've also seen hosts affected by modkills, toxic players and game environments, mechanics that didn’t work as intended and caused grief... so I understand the wish of hosts to give them a tool to prevent some of these issues from popping up in their games.

    At the same time I do see it as a double edged sword that allows for silent bullying and isolation of members, or even of a silent method of racism of players are blocked because of race, nationality, gender, sexuality or religion. All of these possibilities should at least be considered and countermeasures should be thought of.

  37. ISO #87
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#85)
    Just want to throw out there that hosting a mafia game shouldn’t solely be for the hosts enjoyment. Wiggles, you’re speaking about it from a pretty selfish POV where you feel entitled to like, watch your monkeys dance in a game. I think a host hosts a game for the players, not for their own enjoyment - maybe that’s where we differ. It changes a lot about the argument.
    I put effort into my games, they're my games although I am being assisted by MU software and they are hosting but I believe I've been given the right to ownership of the game as long as I follow host guidelines.

    I wish to enjoy my game, I don't see the point of hosting if I intentionally organised a game I wouldn't enjoy reading but I also want the players in my games, at least some of which are my friends to enjoy it too.

    There are certainly people I don't like that I let play in my games if I don't have reason to remove them, my blacklist is short and just.

    But no, it's not SOLELY for my enjoyment. But I think people should have the hosts enjoyment at the back of their mind. Too frequently I see people play games such as mashes talk so crudely about how they hate something about the game or tear it down not considering the person who probably prepared for 10s of hours for them to have a week of fun and activities and they're reading those posts. I make extra effort to tell hosts how much I enjoyed their game and to share my thoughts with them privately about what I enjoyed and what I'm thinking to do with my night actions. We're enjoying someone else's creation and we shouldn't take it for granted or feel entitled to it.
    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  38. ISO #88
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emberguard (#82)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#17)
    The more I think about it, the less of a problem this is. If a user blocks a mod to avoid moderation, or blocks all mods, they are probably getting into trouble for it, and I can intervene.
    I'm assuming they wouldn't block you as well :P

    [Edit 1]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#33)
    If members get blacklisted by FIVE hosts, pretty sure the system isn't the problem.

    IJS.
    That depends on the specifics. I've seen in a community before where the moment one hosts says "you're not joining my next game because you're annoying" everyone else starts making similar statements to the point where if anyone had actually gone through with it (no one did) then there wouldn't have been a game left to play.

    I understand that there may be instances where a specific player is better off taking a break or not playing at all. But that's what moderation is for. I'm not too fond of blacklists outside of players that are actually banned by the moderators as depending on the host creating the blacklist it could be anything from something that's a genuine problem to a petty reason such as just not liking them.

    Hopefully it won't be used for petty squabbles. Hopefully it'll only be used where it's genuinely needed. But the host needs to remember it's not about them alone. The players are as much a part of the game as they are.

    [Edit 2]
    Quote Originally Posted by shortaru (#39)
    *shrug*

    That's up to the host.

    I avoid the problem by not being a douchebag.
    Now here's the problem. Not everyone knows what they're doing wrong! We all come from different cultures. Some more direct then others. And what I've noticed is anyone from similar cultures get along just fine (most of the time). But those with english as the second, third, whatever language are more likely to react to offence quicker, and also get picked on far more due to difference in cultural understanding.

    It's not as simple as "not being a jerk" - if you as the recipient aren't able to be patient with someone that comes across as being a jerk without meaning to be then that's also being a jerk.

    Not everyone has the same mannerisms. Being rude isn't a crime. It's annoying to people if someone is too blunt or critical, and we can explain to them how we interpret the way they present themselves, but I don't think being a jerk is something that should exclude anyone from playing unless it goes too far and actually breaks a rule. Especially if they're not deliberately trying to be malicious
    I'm the one person that could get around the block by editing the code, so.....

    If you think someone is not deliberately being malicious, I suggest defending them in said thread and trying to coach them, even if you think it is the host's job, because if you succeed, it is better for everyone, and then the host is the one who looks bad. There is more than one way too skin a cat.

    TL;DR Cause the change you want to see by living it. Instead of worrying about the social pressure others create, make some yourself. Make the checks and balances happen by speaking your mind.
    Last edited by Makaze; December 5th, 2018 at 10:13 PM.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
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  39. ISO #89
    Wants It More .113's Avatar
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    Ive somewhat changed my mind here, while i do think it has potential to cause problems, its been in use a while without problems and the fact really is that the Hosts should be able to decide untill we get dedicated mafiauniversehosts, like a mod or community contributor role, for the site and hosting games for the site.


    As long as people host their games it should prett6much be on their terms..

    I mean if its a bastard game and you join you have no right to complain about it being a bastard game.

    They run the game the way they want and sometimes put in hours of work just to make it awesome. With all that work they are allowed for instance to put minimum posts in and yet people fail to comply even with as few as 10 posts.

    So preventing people who dont behave, even if its not a bannable offence, isnt so weird tbh.

  40. ISO #90
    Thread Analyst The Lukundo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#6)
    can I use this to prank my friends
    No.
    Cheers!

  41. ISO #91
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .113 (#89)
    Ive somewhat changed my mind here, while i do think it has potential to cause problems, its been in use a while without problems and the fact really is that the Hosts should be able to decide untill we get dedicated mafiauniversehosts, like a mod or community contributor role, for the site and hosting games for the site.


    As long as people host their games it should prett6much be on their terms..

    I mean if its a bastard game and you join you have no right to complain about it being a bastard game.

    They run the game the way they want and sometimes put in hours of work just to make it awesome. With all that work they are allowed for instance to put minimum posts in and yet people fail to comply even with as few as 10 posts.

    So preventing people who dont behave, even if its not a bannable offence, isnt so weird tbh.
    Yeh. Definitlet a fan of the feature because some people can just be unpleasant or unfun to play with or make games worse while strictly following the rules. Sometimes even quite deliberately tho that is rare
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  42. ISO #92
    Soul Reader Percy's Avatar
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    I’ve only ever hosted one game here at MU (went pretty damn well by all accounts) and I have plans to host more in future. I’ll admit there are players here with whom I don’t see eye to eye and believe that their presence in a game I host may be potentially problematic. That said, I would personally do everything in my power to avoid the use of this functionality. As a player, I’d be really hurt if I was rejected at the point I signed up for a game and given that there appears to be no formal process of appeal, it gives me the impression that it’s all rather arbitrary. It’s human nature, I guess - we all don’t like everyone but I think everyone deserves the respect thar I believe is negated by this feature. If you’re a host and you don’t want me to play in your game, drop me a PM with a polite reason why not and I’ll respect your decision, please don’t hide behind this feature.
    I just wanted to take one final opportunity to remind people why that higher standard exists. I know it can be difficult to live up to, especially in the heat of the moment... I know it is difficult and we're all only human. But the reward is a better site, a better community, and games where you actually want to sign up to the next one when the current game is done. People you actually look forward to playing with. Maybe even making friends.
    - Askthepizzaguy

  43. ISO #93
    Soul Reader shortaru's Avatar
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    If there were dedicated staff members assigned to run games, yeah I'd object or want a way to appeal blacklists...

    But considering games are hosted by volunteers among the community, I support their right to exclude whomever they wish for whatever criteria they wish.

    If hosts abuse the blacklist feature, I'm sure it will be handled by the community not participating in their games.

  44. ISO #94
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percy (#92)
    I’ve only ever hosted one game here at MU (went pretty damn well by all accounts) and I have plans to host more in future. I’ll admit there are players here with whom I don’t see eye to eye and believe that their presence in a game I host may be potentially problematic. That said, I would personally do everything in my power to avoid the use of this functionality. As a player, I’d be really hurt if I was rejected at the point I signed up for a game and given that there appears to be no formal process of appeal, it gives me the impression that it’s all rather arbitrary. It’s human nature, I guess - we all don’t like everyone but I think everyone deserves the respect thar I believe is negated by this feature. If you’re a host and you don’t want me to play in your game, drop me a PM with a polite reason why not and I’ll respect your decision, please don’t hide behind this feature.
    People who would listen to a sincere criticism are unlikely to ever get blacklisted, so I think this is an irrational fear.

    People who constantly get into fights, make others not want to play, and don't accept criticism are the likely targets.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol

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about us
Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

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Role of the Day
Mind Controller

The Mind Controller can on any night choose to control someone's mind for the rest of the game. Once a target has been selected, the Mind Controller cannot pick a new one. If their action is successful, the Mind Controller will be informed and will from the beginning of the following night be able to decide who their target's potential night action should be used on. They will, however, not know what potential night action their target has.