Newbie 21p

[orangeandblack5]

The following setup is something I worked on with help from @eevee:

Town Role Cop
Town JOAT (1x alignment check, 1x jail, 1x kill)
Town Jailkeeper
Town Tracker
Town Citizen x12
Mafia JOAT (1x rolecop, 1x jail, 1x kill)
Mafia Jailkeeper
Mafia Tracker
Mafia Goon x2

The Town Role Cop learns only the role of the target, not alignment. Thus, the Town and Mafia versions of each PR are indistinguishable.

Because it's targeted at newbies, we also decided to have the RC get Goon/Citizen instead of Vanilla for both.

I think this setup works well at accomplishing its goals of introducing new players to
more advanced but still standard roles, the ideas of counterclaims, and how larger games will play out. However, I'm wondering what you all think of it.

[Mantichora]

The Town JOAT feels like a redundancy with the Alignment Check and Jail ability.

This is def a V+++++ setup, but I presume you intend on hosting it on a ToS-Adjacent site wherein this sort of setup would be more normal. Insofar as a ToS-adjacent setup goes, it looks like you're on the more or less right path for a new player setup.

Beyond that, I think the two Trackers introduce tension into the setup that doesnt feel good for a new player game. It might get players thinking about "should I holster here because tracker reasons?" Which is the opposite of what you should be getting them to think about IMO

Tone down on the PRs a little bit to make the game less chaotic, smoothen out the reducencies, and see how it looks then. Just my first take. A little more info on what kind of audience youre gonna present this setup to would go a long way wrt helping balance it out.

[Apoc]

Why not introduce people to the term Vanilla?

I think it would help the setup a bit if every VT was not effectively an alignment peek.

Rename them to:
Town Vanilla
Mafia Vanilla

And it doesnt seem that confusing


Or just change mafia to Mafia Citizen (maybe thats weird tho? )

[orangeandblack5]

See, the problem is the specific target audience was absolutely demolished in the first game I ran, that being a Cop13.

So, I ran this one, and the Mafia won upon reaching 3/3 parity with the Town.

All in all, I am happy with how it played out, and honestly Cow I think it's more likely a newbie JOAT would holster due to fear of being wrong than due to anything to do with the Trackers following them. Plus, that might even teach the Tracker a thing about when to not come forward with their info so directly.

Plus, another part of the idea was to introduce a few non-Cop PRs, and it did that well too - nobody seemed confused by what was capable of what, beyond one Goon asking me if talking in the nightchat counted as a visit :P
@Apoc we specifically wanted a blend of a RC and an alignment Cop, hence the Goon result. If this weren't run with newbies that I felt definitely needed the extra leg up (and they still didn't manage to take out more than two scum), I'd probably run it with the Vanilla result or even just as a Neapolitan.

[mhsmith0]

What's the upside of running 21p newbie games? I'd generally think that 17p is about the max size, and that if anything 13p probably works a bit better.

[Noah101]

seriously
21p
in a newbie setup


imo a 9p semiopen type of setup like 3d3 or backup6 is the best type of newb setup

[orangeandblack5]

What's the upside of running 21p newbie games? I'd generally think that 17p is about the max size, and that if anything 13p probably works a bit better.

The upside is allowing four more participants.

That can be important in a budding community when lots of people want to play. We had ample backups as well.

[Icibalus]

What's the upside of running 21p newbie games? I'd generally think that 17p is about the max size, and that if anything 13p probably works a bit better.

The upside is allowing four more participants.

That can be important in a budding community when lots of people want to play. We had ample backups as well.

Also, games larger than 15 tend to "excite" people more than others. Getting newbies invested in the play of the game should always be the aim.

[Apoc]

Dont listen to them orange

Seems like your good to go, let us know how it goes

[Mantichora]

Back in my day we ran 20p multiball newbie setups

[Mistyx]

Back in my day we ran 20p multiball newbie setups

there was one recently but all the new players turned out to be alts

[lol]

i feel as 21p would be a bit confusing for most newbies

[unicornturtle]

Sorry i am new but where do we ask questions on this site?
Please notify me if someone finds an answer