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Thread: Mafia Championship Season 6 Setup - Suggestion/Discussion Thread

  1. ISO #51
    ༼ つ ;-; ༽つ give smith another day mhsmith0's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief (#50)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#48)
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief (#5)
    Some of the setups can be good, but they're outnumbered by the ones that are boring/unbalanced/just not that fun to play. You don't want to highlight a setup where there's only a 33% chance of it being good or playable.
    did you not see the setup Lissa linked in her OP?
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  2. ISO #52
    Mantichora's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#49)
    Mountainous Arson is an abomination


    Play Mountainous Poison instead
    Honestly I would prefer mountain poison over arson.

  3. ISO #53
    Season 5 Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Unrelated to the current discussion, but something I don't want to get lost in the shuffle:

    Please keep in mind that this thread, taking place on MU and being predominantly if not entirely populated by MU regulars, will shape our perception of setups that are and are not acceptable/fun. We need to keep in mind that the goal of this is something that the communities will respond to, not simply one that's MU-sanctioned.
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  4. ISO #54
    Mountainous arson or poison is probably too fancy for a champs setup, if any of you were actually being serious. I'd think the setup should have standard nightkill and lynch mechanics as a baseline.

    I remember last year the powers that be didn't want poisoners, or I'd suggest modifying my 21er setup to a 17er.

    d6 is cromulent, maybe a modified version for 17 players and without cops (because I agree those suck for champs).

    What about ninjas and guns? I don't remember the setup exactly but it seemed fine when I played it.

    I think the qualifiers should use the same setup as the wildcard and finale.

    I'll think about it more tonight when I'm on a computer.

  5. ISO #55
    I played ninja and guns twice, it's fun but it has 2 cop setups in the rand so if people don't want that (and I agree/understand) it would need a tweak

    Zack's poisoner is actually a good idea, but not sure how it would translate to a 17er cause the poisoner+vigs make it very quick/fast paced which works in a 21er but in a 17er probably less. Are people against poisons? It's a fairly easy to grasp mechanic imo

    12/3 mountainous is fine

  6. ISO #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#55)
    I played ninja and guns twice, it's fun but it has 2 cop setups in the rand so if people don't want that (and I agree/understand) it would need a tweak

    Zack's poisoner is actually a good idea, but not sure how it would translate to a 17er cause the poisoner+vigs make it very quick/fast paced which works in a 21er but in a 17er probably less. Are people against poisons? It's a fairly easy to grasp mechanic imo

    12/3 mountainous is fine
    I'd remove the odd-night vig altogether as a start and go from there, nerf the poisoner a bit, remove the JOAT peek.

    x1 2-Shot Mafia Poisoner
    x1 Mafia Role Cop
    x2 Mafia Goon


    x1 2-Shot Town Jailkeeper
    x1 Town Vigilante | Even Night
    x11 Vanilla Town


    Seems wolf-sided, maybe add an innocent child or town tracker or something and it actually wouldn't be too bad.

  7. ISO #57
    Actually an innocent child has no place in a champs game, scratch that.

    Having one wolf role be so much stronger than the other wolves probably not good for champs either, could make the poison factional instead or something. Setup might just be poorly suited to a champs environment.

  8. ISO #58
    Looking at soah's setup and it seems pretty good and well-suited to the format. I'd change the cops to something else (for champs, they are fine outside of that context). I'm also not a fan of watchers but that's probably not nearly as big a deal in a role madness setup.

    That's the most promising option. I'd start there and tweak it a bit.

  9. ISO #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#57)
    Actually an innocent child has no place in a champs game, scratch that.

    Having one wolf role be so much stronger than the other wolves probably not good for champs either, could make the poison factional instead or something. Setup might just be poorly suited to a champs environment.
    yeah maybe it is

    I was running the math and the poisoner getting both of his poisons off is very big

    if poisoner doesn't get got by d2, this is pretty wolfsided if there are no other village roles

    if poisoner gets killed by d2 or one of his poisons gets jkept it's probably fine?

    Having the poisoner be 2 shot kinda limits its importance, but in the end quite a bit still depends on when it dies

    I also forgot that you basically have an IC for d2/d3 in the poisoned people which maybe it's a mechanic people don't like for champs

  10. ISO #60
    Soul Reader Soneji's Avatar
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    Yeah above all else having a low chance of alignment cops/no alignment cops is my biggest wish for whatever set-up is chosen. The champs I played in(s2) was dominated by having to do seer cover and the player that got randed cop received favoritism in the voting despite not playing that well themselves in some games.

  11. ISO #61
    JAMES MCCLOWN Frog's Avatar
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    +1 for Zack's Poison setup modified to 17er

  12. ISO #62
    Soul Reader SilverKeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#58)
    Looking at soah's setup and it seems pretty good and well-suited to the format. I'd change the cops to something else (for champs, they are fine outside of that context). I'm also not a fan of watchers but that's probably not nearly as big a deal in a role madness setup.

    That's the most promising option. I'd start there and tweak it a bit.
    I agree with Zack's take here.

    I generally dislike cops, and, to a lesser extent, vigs and watchers for champs. I feel like cops and watchers can prematurely end a wolf's game which might have been very different if not for them getting caught with a PR. I get that there's obviously skill involved in cop/watcher play, but sometimes if feels like that's just luck/variance. In the span of several games getting copchecked once or twice is fine,whatever but getting checked as scum in exactly your champs game (or in finals, lol) has to be the worst. Especially if you got most of the town fooled except for the cop. With vigs there's also random $#@! like the vig chs'ing the townleader.

    That being said I do like Soah's setup and I think it would run fine in champs, specially because cop/vig can't act N1, so it gives players 2 whole days to showcase their game.

  13. ISO #63
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    I do think watcher is a bit much too. That becomes one of those PRs that have a bit much impact just by existing.
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  14. ISO #64
    Wants It More LanMisa's Avatar
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    One thing that I was thinking about: A complaint about Champs was that people dying N1 are... over- or underrepresented in the votes? Is there a way to delay the N1 kill to N2 by disabling the Wolf nightkill and giving them a factional N2 shot?

  15. ISO #65
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by soah (#1)
    Each of the following 17 roles will be randomly assigned to one player in the game without regard for alignment.

    Watcher (N1 Only)
    Watcher (N2 Only)
    Alignment Cop (N2 Only)
    Alignment Cop (N3 Only)
    Vigilante (N2 Only)
    Vigilante (N3 Only)
    Doctor (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Doctor (2x, Even Night Only)
    Tracker (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Tracker (2x, Even Night Only)
    Roleblocker (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Roleblocker (2x, Even Night Only)
    Jailkeeper (3x)
    Role Cop (3x) + 1x Strongman
    JOAT (Role Cop, Tracker, Roleblocker)
    JOAT (Doctor, Jailkeeper, Voyeur)
    Voyeur (4x) + 1x Strongman

    All abilities must be used by Night 4. After that, any unused abilities will be lost.

    Role reveals at death are alignment only. You will not learn a player's role when they die.

    The mafia faction kill is assigned (and can be blocked, tracked, and watched), but it is optional unless there are exactly four players remaining. A player may perform the faction kill and use their other ability simultaneously.

    The town must lynch each day. No-lynch is not an option. Each day will run until deadline even if majority is reached. Exceptions will only be considered by the host if there is effectively unanimous support.
    This is soah's setup for reference.

    @soah any way we can cut the alignment cops iyo? And if we wanna cut the watchers too, how could we do that?
    Last edited by Thingyman; March 12th, 2019 at 05:25 PM.

  16. ISO #66
    If you could make the watchers unable to see the mafia kill, they'd be fine

  17. ISO #67
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    I would want this setup tested (again). Maybe we could test it as a turbo a few times over the next week, and also start a long game sign-up for it.

    Can someone summarize how the first try went?

  18. ISO #68
    Quote Originally Posted by LanMisa (#64)
    One thing that I was thinking about: A complaint about Champs was that people dying N1 are... over- or underrepresented in the votes? Is there a way to delay the N1 kill to N2 by disabling the Wolf nightkill and giving them a factional N2 shot?
    I think the best way to do this is to have the possibility of protective roles the wolves have to worry about, which soah's setup does.

  19. ISO #69
    I have a few questions about the setup

    (1) why is the factional kill optional?

    (2) why isn't no lynch an option?

    (3) why no maj? (I assume this is personal taste and not really about the setup itself, but correct me if I'm wrong)

  20. ISO #70
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#66)
    If you could make the watchers unable to see the mafia kill, they'd be fine
    Yah that's fair. My biggest thing with them is they help dictate the mafia kill while alive so doing that would I think be perfect
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  21. ISO #71
    Mantichora's Avatar Game Manager
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    Not many people are talking about it, but I think vigilante is a fine role. Full vigi and odd vigi included.

    In theory, the vigi should have as much impact on people's ability to put on a good showing as the lynch and mafia factional.

    I can understand the intention of lowering player elimination early, but disagree that it's relevant when compared go designing a good/balanced setup.

  22. ISO #72
    Mantichora's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantichora (#71)
    Not many people are talking about it, but I think vigilante is a fine role. Full vigi and odd vigi included.

    In theory, the vigi should have as much impact on people's ability to put on a good showing as the lynch and mafia factional.

    I can understand the intention of lowering player elimination early, but disagree that it's relevant when compared go designing a good/balanced setup.
    Expanding on this, perhaps allow at the time of death players to submit a rational of their own play, their thoughts on the game and game state etc. and have these writeups forward to the jury after a game ends.

    This allows people to get a fair and less biased say on their own play

  23. ISO #73
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#65)
    @soah any way we can cut the alignment cops iyo? And if we wanna cut the watchers too, how could we do that?
    If you want to do that I think you'd just need to make it a 13er.

    The purpose of having the watchers in the setup was to make the wolves kill people on n1/n2 that normally they really would not prefer to kill in order to stay safe. (I'm pretty sure the equilibrium strategy is for the watchers to target people who are helping town the most and for wolves to kill outside of that group.)

    I feel like if you're taking out all of those roles then you're almost just reducing all of the night actions down to just people trying to block the nightkill. I acknowledge that the n1 watcher introduces a chance of a wolf getting caught quickly through no fault of their own, but it's a pretty low chance and I think it's really hard to create a setup like this which completely removes all chance of someone getting caught mechanically even if they played fine. And even if a player does get caught n1, the person who caught them still has to actually get them lynched.

  24. ISO #74
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#67)
    I would want this setup tested (again). Maybe we could test it as a turbo a few times over the next week, and also start a long game sign-up for it.

    Can someone summarize how the first try went?
    The village got completely crushed even though only one of the wolves was really active and getting people to trust him. The villagers mostly just had really wrong reads for the first couple days and used their actions accordingly. The n2 Cop hardclaimed on d2 to avoid lynch and then the town vig shot him that night. But one of the wolves ended up getting caught as a result because he'd roleblocked the cop which was seen by the Voyeur and he decided to go ahead and claim responsibility for the roleblock but he did a really bad job of trying to explain why he did it from the town POV. Another wolf got caught by the tracker n4 because the wolves decided to play it super safe and have their most suspect member do the kill rather than the most trusted one. Also, by n3 they had figured out who the n3 cop was because everyone else had claimed something and they felt that the last remaining player also would have claimed if they had any of the other unknown (dead) roles. But they chose to leave him alone anyway because he was mislyncahble. He peeked a villager which was helpful, but people didn't trust him and I think he ended up being the final mislynch. In postgame most players felt the setup was balanced. Those that disagreed didn't seem to feel very strongly about it.

    The game ran another time as a 13er, but I didn't like the way the setup worked with just 13 players. Everything was too condensed. Village won easily.

  25. ISO #75
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Oh - and the wolves could have avoided getting tracked on n4 since nothing was stopping them from just killing the tracker, but they made a different kill for reasons I no longer remember.

  26. ISO #76
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#69)
    I have a few questions about the setup

    (1) why is the factional kill optional?

    (2) why isn't no lynch an option?

    (3) why no maj? (I assume this is personal taste and not really about the setup itself, but correct me if I'm wrong)
    I wanted the wolves to have the option to make no kill in case they got completely rocked on the first few days of the game -- if there's just one wolf remaining while players still have night actions, then I want there to be an additional explanation for why the nightkill didn't go through.

    I took away no lynch because I felt the setup was probably slightly too townsided, and that was a tweak which would hurt the town just slightly.

    No majority was unrelated to gameplay.


    That said, I realized after the game had started that I'd made a mistake in crafting the rules about the nightkills/no-lynching, and the rules should have been as follows:

    * The mafia faction kill is optional on Nights 1 to 4 and mandatory on Nights 5 and beyond.

    * No-lynch is enabled.

    Another change I made afterwards is that the n1 Watcher is Macho (cannot be saved from kills), but that's probably not desirable for a Champs setup. The purpose of that change was to give added incentive not to mass claim on d1 by giving the wolves a guaranteed safe kill if they knew all roles.

  27. ISO #77
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    I think mountainous is the best way to not step on too many toes, and we didn't have it last year. I get the rationale for changing every year, but still believe mountainous (not poison/arson) is the way to go...

  28. ISO #78
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by soah (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#69)
    I have a few questions about the setup

    (1) why is the factional kill optional?

    (2) why isn't no lynch an option?

    (3) why no maj? (I assume this is personal taste and not really about the setup itself, but correct me if I'm wrong)
    I wanted the wolves to have the option to make no kill in case they got completely rocked on the first few days of the game -- if there's just one wolf remaining while players still have night actions, then I want there to be an additional explanation for why the nightkill didn't go through.

    I took away no lynch because I felt the setup was probably slightly too townsided, and that was a tweak which would hurt the town just slightly.

    No majority was unrelated to gameplay.


    That said, I realized after the game had started that I'd made a mistake in crafting the rules about the nightkills/no-lynching, and the rules should have been as follows:

    * The mafia faction kill is optional on Nights 1 to 4 and mandatory on Nights 5 and beyond.

    * No-lynch is enabled.

    Another change I made afterwards is that the n1 Watcher is Macho (cannot be saved from kills), but that's probably not desirable for a Champs setup. The purpose of that change was to give added incentive not to mass claim on d1 by giving the wolves a guaranteed safe kill if they knew all roles.
    How 'bout if we make these changes that you mention here... And we make the alignment cops role cops instead?

  29. ISO #79
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#78)
    How 'bout if we make these changes that you mention here... And we make the alignment cops role cops instead?
    The setup already has a role cop and a JOAT that has 1 role cop action. If we add more then it reaches the point where fake claims are too risky for the wolves under almost all circumstances.

    Frankly, I don't understand the concern about having two peeks in this setup. It's actually quite a small amount of information and it takes work to obtain. In order to get each peek the town needs to 1) have the role assigned to a town player 2) the town player must live until d3 or d4 and 3) not get jailed or roleblocked that night, and 4) the town needs to trust that the person claiming the role is actually town.

    The mafia always have the option of just keeping alive the cops after they've claimed so that their information is never confirmed to be coming from town, and they also have several nights at the end of the game where they can kill freely without worrying about protection. The peeks are never going to break the game.

  30. ISO #80
    Wants It More LanMisa's Avatar
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    Might be a bit useless since I guess that Soahs setup is most likely going to be picked, but I tried to scramble together a 3x3 Matrix for a 13p setup:

    Tracker, Roleblocker, Mafia Tracker

    Vigilante (even), Mafia RB, Bodyguard

    Mafia Role cop, Bulletproofx1, JOAT (watch, jail, poison x1 each)

    Most likely not balanced, but that's what you guys are here for.

  31. ISO #81
    Wants It More El-ahrairah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#77)
    I think mountainous is the best way to not step on too many toes, and we didn't have it last year. I get the rationale for changing every year, but still believe mountainous (not poison/arson) is the way to go...
    Mountainous FTW! \o/
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  32. ISO #82
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by soah (#79)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#78)
    How 'bout if we make these changes that you mention here... And we make the alignment cops role cops instead?
    The setup already has a role cop and a JOAT that has 1 role cop action. If we add more then it reaches the point where fake claims are too risky for the wolves under almost all circumstances.

    Frankly, I don't understand the concern about having two peeks in this setup. It's actually quite a small amount of information and it takes work to obtain. In order to get each peek the town needs to 1) have the role assigned to a town player 2) the town player must live until d3 or d4 and 3) not get jailed or roleblocked that night, and 4) the town needs to trust that the person claiming the role is actually town.

    The mafia always have the option of just keeping alive the cops after they've claimed so that their information is never confirmed to be coming from town, and they also have several nights at the end of the game where they can kill freely without worrying about protection. The peeks are never going to break the game.
    Fair point.

    The worry is that it sucks for a mafia to post themselves clear and then get peeked, and not advance based on that. But I wonder if there will be such a bias? If a mafia gets peeked night 1 or 2, I see it happening. But if they were consensus clear on day 3 or day 4 still, I would hope that is recognized by the players in the post-game votes.

  33. ISO #83
    IKEA Aquilla's Avatar Game Manager
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    idk if i'm in the minority or not for this, but I don't think role madness is any better for champs than mountainous in terms of communities to invite. I personally enjoy role madness a lot, but it adds a lot of swing to the game just based on rand and I can't help but feel that there's gonna be a game that gets super lopsided role wise.

  34. ISO #84
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    The solution may indeed be to make it a 13'er instead, and then cut the alignment cops and watchers.

    Vigilante (N2 Only)
    Vigilante (N3 Only)
    Doctor (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Doctor (2x, Even Night Only)
    Tracker (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Tracker (2x, Even Night Only)
    Roleblocker (2x, Odd Night Only)
    Roleblocker (2x, Even Night Only)
    Jailkeeper (3x)
    Role Cop (3x) + 1x Strongman
    JOAT (Role Cop, Tracker, Roleblocker)
    JOAT (Doctor, Jailkeeper, Voyeur)
    Voyeur (4x) + 1x Strongman

    This reduces the roles that we'd prefer to avoid in a Championship setting and reduces numbers to something that should be much more managable.

  35. ISO #85
    Ruler of the Universe Thingyman's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilla (#83)
    idk if i'm in the minority or not for this, but I don't think role madness is any better for champs than mountainous in terms of communities to invite. I personally enjoy role madness a lot, but it adds a lot of swing to the game just based on rand and I can't help but feel that there's gonna be a game that gets super lopsided role wise.
    I'd be surprised if even 25% of communities voted yes to "do you want Mountainous?", so I'd feel it's a shame if we do have to end up with that.

  36. ISO #86
    What about d6? It's already in modbot.

  37. ISO #87
    IKEA Aquilla's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#85)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilla (#83)
    idk if i'm in the minority or not for this, but I don't think role madness is any better for champs than mountainous in terms of communities to invite. I personally enjoy role madness a lot, but it adds a lot of swing to the game just based on rand and I can't help but feel that there's gonna be a game that gets super lopsided role wise.
    I'd be surprised if even 25% of communities voted yes to "do you want Mountainous?", so I'd feel it's a shame if we do have to end up with that.
    I wasn't suggesting to do mountainous, i'm just saying that role madness is not a better option than it. I think a modified d6 could work where we remove hard cops.

  38. ISO #88
    The One True Hero soah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman (#82)
    The worry is that it sucks for a mafia to post themselves clear and then get peeked, and not advance based on that. But I wonder if there will be such a bias? If a mafia gets peeked night 1 or 2, I see it happening. But if they were consensus clear on day 3 or day 4 still, I would hope that is recognized by the players in the post-game votes.
    Pretty much all power roles can conceivably cause a sucky situation for a wolf.

  39. ISO #89
    No longer a rabbit Logic's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    I'll probably be tarred and feathered for this, but what about multi-ball?

    EDIT:
    Also, each Mafia team should be at least 3 members, because 2v2v13 is pretty hard for mafia to win.
    Last edited by Logic; March 13th, 2019 at 01:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong

  40. ISO #90
    d6:

    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#374)
    D6 Mafia is a 13-player Semi-Open Variable setup designed to offer a more balanced experience compared to C9++.

    Town Power:

    To determine the town power, you must roll a die six times and mark down the numbers. The amount of times the die lands in a grouping determines the type of power role present in the game. Vanilla Town roles are added to bring the number of town up to ten.

    1-3: Investigative
    4-5: Protective
    6: Killing

    Investigative
    1 Town Innocent Child
    2 Town Role Oracle
    3 Town Role Cop
    4 Town Tracker
    5 Town Parity Cop
    6 Town Cop (with Night 0 peek)
    Protective
    1 Town Bodyguard
    2 Town Doctor
    3 Town Roleblocker
    4 Town Jailkeeper
    5 Town Jailkeeper + Town Bodyguard
    6 Town Roleblocker + Town Doctor
    Killing
    1 1-Shot Town Vigilante
    2 2-Shot Town Vigilante
    3 Town Vigilante
    4 Town Vigilante
    5 Town Vigilante + 1-Shot Town Vigilante
    6 Town Vigilante + 2-Shot Town Vigilante


    Mafia Power:

    For the mafia power roles, take the number of town power roles minus one, then roll a die that many times and add the role(s) it lands on. Mafia Goons are added to bring the number of mafia up to three.

    Mafia Roles
    1 Mafia Roleblocker
    2 Mafia Roleblocker
    3 Mafia Jailkeeper
    4 Mafia Role Cop
    5 Mafia Tracker
    6 Mafia Watcher


    For example, if the town power role rand is Tracker (4I), Bodyguard (1P), 1-Shot Vigilante (1K), then a possible mafia rand would be: Mafia Roleblocker (1), Mafia Roleblocker (1).


    Investigative:

    Innocent Child - unsuited to champs
    Role Oracle - I personally think this is a dumb role. What is even the point? Is this even pro-town?
    Role Cop - sure
    Tracker - sure
    Parity Cop - don't want cops in champs
    Alignment Cop w/ n0 - don't want a vanilla 13er for champs again


    Protective:

    Bodyguard - sure
    Doctor - sure
    Roleblocker - sure
    Jailkeeper - sure
    Jailkeeper + Bodyguard - sure
    Roleblocker + Doctor - sure


    Killing:

    1x Vigilante - sure
    2x Vigilante - sure
    Vigilante - I don't think champs should have a singular role which is comparatively much higher impact than anything else in the game
    Vigilante + 1x Vigilante - no


    2x5:

    SETUP DETAILS FOR 2X5

    This is a semi-open grid setup meant for 17 players: 4 mafia versus 13 townies.

    Column 1 Column 2
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Goon
    Mafia Role Cop
    Row A Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Voyeur
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Tracker
    Row B Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row C Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Tracker
    Town Jailkeeper
    Town Voyeur
    Row D Town Tracker
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Voyeur
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Even Night Vigilante
    Town Motion Detector
    Row E Town Doctor
    Town Jack of All Trades*
    Town Doctor
    Town Roleblocker
    Town Motion Detector

    *Town Jack of All Trades: 1x Vigilante, 1x Roleblocker, 1x Tracker.

    Method for randing:
    First you randomly select a number to decide the mafia team's composition of Power Roles (1-2), then you randomly select a letter to decide the town's composition of Power Roles (A-E). Fill in the number of Vanilla Townies needed to make the town team have 13 members total, and you have your setup. I.e. if you randed 2 and B then you'd get the following setup:

    Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia Role Cop
    vs.
    Town Even Night Vigilante, Town Jailkeeper, Town Voyeur, 10 Vanilla Townies

    So the general idea is that as a townie, you know you're up against one of 2 possible mafia team compositions. And as a mafia you know you're up against one of 5 possible town team compositions. The more powerful the mafia team is, the more power is given to the town team, naturally.

    Important setup notes:
    • The mafia's factional kill must be assigned to a single member of their team each night. This means that the mafia's factional kill can, for example, be blocked by a Town Jailkeeper or tracked by a Town Tracker.
    • None of the included roles can self-target, including the protective roles.
    • Doctors, Jailkeepers, and Roleblockers are not allowed to target the same players on consecutive nights.
    • The Even Night Vigilante may only shoot on even nights (i.e. Night 2, Night 4, etc.).
    • The Voyeur's own action will not show up in their result.
    • There are no night 0 actions (aka pre-game actions).

    Role explanations:
    Please go to this page to read about the different roles if you're unfamiliar with them: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...oles-Modifiers
    • Majority will be in effect starting Day 2. Day 2 onward will end the instant a majority is reached.
    • Town wins when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
    • Mafia factions win when they achieve Parity and all other evil factions have been eliminated at any time.
    • Votes are not automatically locked at LYLO.
    • No Lynching is enabled. Vote for No Lynch to forgo a lynch that Day.
    • Mafia factional kills are mandatory. Mafia must submit a factional kill each night, or a player outside their faction will be chosen at random.
    • Mafia factional kills are assigned. They can be tracked, watched, or roleblocked.
    • Mafia may communicate at any time.
    • Tied votes will result in a player being lynched at random from among the tied players.


    I think these roles are all fine, except Voeyeur and Motion Detector, which IMO are too obscure and niche for this kind of community-gathering event. Similar to my thoughts on role oracle, these roles are kinda pointless. Why include them? It's either an innocent child with some window dressing or a really $#@!ty watcher, depending on your point of view.

    I thought 2x5 worked pretty well last year. Using that and d6 as inspiration for a similar setup this year wouldn't be the worst idea.

    Do you want a 13er or a 17er?

  41. ISO #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#89)
    I'll probably be tarred and feathered for this, but what about multi-ball?

    EDIT:
    Also, each Mafia team should be at least 3 members, because 2v2v13 is pretty hard for mafia to win.

  42. ISO #92
    No longer a rabbit Logic's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#91)
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#89)
    I'll probably be tarred and feathered for this, but what about multi-ball?

    EDIT:
    Also, each Mafia team should be at least 3 members, because 2v2v13 is pretty hard for mafia to win.
    I'll take that as a hard pass from Zack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong

  43. ISO #93
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#58)
    Looking at soah's setup and it seems pretty good and well-suited to the format. I'd change the cops to something else (for champs, they are fine outside of that context). I'm also not a fan of watchers but that's probably not nearly as big a deal in a role madness setup.

    That's the most promising option. I'd start there and tweak it a bit.
    What would the something else be, with regards to cops? Thingy mentioned changing it to role cop, though there are issues with that; other suggestions would be interesting!!

    I'll run a turbo tonight to test the setup around 9pm EST; will put the signup up for that in a few hours as a heads up for anyone here who wants in!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

  44. ISO #94
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#89)
    I'll probably be tarred and feathered for this, but what about multi-ball?

    EDIT:
    Also, each Mafia team should be at least 3 members, because 2v2v13 is pretty hard for mafia to win.
    Highly unlikely to be a thing for, well, all of the reasons why it often isn't run normally!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

  45. ISO #95
    IKEA Aquilla's Avatar Game Manager
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    I think the idea was a 17'er Zack, but 13'er if it fit better. I think we can definitely get a 17'er if we work on it though.

  46. ISO #96
    Soah setup looks like it requires a bit more time to think than turbo times to test it well

    Obviously it's still good to run it as a turbo and see how it goes but imo it is not very well suited

  47. ISO #97
    IKEA Aquilla's Avatar Game Manager
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    I think swapping around some of the roles of d6, and then adding 3 vt and a goon works super well.

  48. ISO #98
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#86)
    What about d6? It's already in modbot.
    Regarding D6, it has its own issues as a structure; good on its own, but not really ideal for champs!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

  49. ISO #99
    GOAT Tier Chemist1422's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#98)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#86)
    What about d6? It's already in modbot.
    Regarding D6, it has its own issues as a structure; good on its own, but not really ideal for champs!!
    Are they issues that could potentially be tweaked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist1422 (#6)
    mfw you accidentally sell your soul for a modpeek
    Quote Originally Posted by Lads (#305)
    God is real, and she is haunting my dreams tonight.

  50. ISO #100
    IKEA Aquilla's Avatar Game Manager
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    we could swap the role oracle to alignment oracle maybe. Include a vengeful on the kp spectrum and even/odd night vigi at the higher ends.

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