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Thread: Season 6, Game 5: The Legacy of the SANDS [The Mafia Championship]

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    Thread Analyst Vault_Dweller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricKline (#86)
    Okay, before I go to bed id like to do a quick rundown of the day from my point of view.

    There has been a lot of talk about RVS, which surprises me. I was expecting everyone on here to be relatively well versed in typical game strategy. How I see it, RVS doesn't really work if its obviously RVS. The point is to draw out conversation and conflict. If its obviously RVS, no one would respond. The only reason its somewhat did its job here is because it was done in such a non traditional way.

    I'm seeing personality roles clearly come into play. I've seen the nice guy, the antagonist, the questioner, the level headed guy. I have yet to see anyone step up as a leader. Normally id like to see someone step up and try and steer conversation, but that has been absent, likely due to us getting to know each other. Maybe we need an ice breaker (we should all play mafia!/s)

    I greatly dislike this forum's host program. Quoting is difficult, mobile use is hard (especially sense everyone seems bent on quoting huge amounts and only talking in large portions. Plus its blocked on my school computers so I will have to be caring around with me a separate computer for the next few days. Expect large gaps from me, with dumps when I get on.

    Everyone seems to be talking in large chunks, rather then small banter. Again, likely due to our familiarity with the cite and others. I hope to see this go down. Foolish town will take large slabs of text as a sign of other town. Also, not sure why everyone is quoting so heavily, but I guess that's a result of how the forum is set up.

    I already have my personal excel sheet going with data on each player, sus lists, and a mafia algorithm i've bene working on. I don't plan on releasing my data till late game, so look out for that.

    I do have a few heads on my list already, but going to save heavy accusations for the morning. For now, My votes stands.

    Goodnight all, I look forward to a great game.
    This is a strange post. Complaining about walls in a wall. And why even mention your Excel spreadsheet if you're going to keep it secret? Not finding it scummy per se, just strange.

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    Meh, this looks like a misunderstanding to me (or maybe I read Chox completely wrong) but his "I expected more votes" line seemed to be about RVS in general and not the Chelsea wagon to me. And if it was the former then yeah I agree. But there seems to be some meta clash as Quinn at least expressed surprise at naked votes like mine.

    I'm basically in agreement that his defense and attitude are a bit tetchy but I don't see the underlying fence sitting because I'm pretty sure you're reading that wrong.

    Anyway what I'm curious about here is the meta on Chelsea. You say that she's likely to draw attention regardless. Do you mean she is always a D1 wagon? And are you both familiar with her? I don't think I know anyone (except I seem to remember Fdas' name but nothing more than that) and I'm just a bit lost. Feel like having a grasp on personality would be helpful for EK in particular, but I don't have time for a meta dive today or tomorrow (well I might depends on how busy work is).

    @Choxorn you mentioned you've been to MTGS, when were you there? Was it under a different name?

    ##Vote Drixx
    I'm not liking the waffling on claiming from Drixx or fdas but I rally don't like 55. 55 is a little fear mongery and to steal a device a bit schordinger'y. It's about "this is why we must claim" while leaving the "I'm a bit tipsy so if this doesn't make sense, oops" backdoor. Definitely feels like it wants to talk about how to claim without really have a strong opinion on how it should be handled. Which just doesn't feel right when combined with the fear mongering. Biggest concern with this read is I don't know why scum would want to plant a flag on calling for a mass claim right out the gates, but it just doesn't feel genuine to me.

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    Chelsea/Quinn feels TvT to me. And Lady Lambda's push on Choxorn feels real.

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    Ohhh I guess I should refresh the thread. Yay reading comprehension I guess.

    @Vault_Dweller I'm pretty anti derp clears but Quinn just feels pure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#103)
    Chelsea/Quinn feels TvT to me. And Lady Lambda's push on Choxorn feels real.
    I'm in a similar position but I'm a bit tentative to give it more than a day or 2 long deadline before a reeavl.

    So basically, I'm chill putting Maria and Quinn on the town shelf until maybe day 3, but you need to promise me if I'm dead and you're not you'll re-evaluate them both.

    Also, you can just call me LLD if you like. Everyone else does. or Lambda will work just fine too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#102)
    Meh, this looks like a misunderstanding to me (or maybe I read Chox completely wrong) but his "I expected more votes" line seemed to be about RVS in general and not the Chelsea wagon to me. And if it was the former then yeah I agree. But there seems to be some meta clash as Quinn at least expressed surprise at naked votes like mine.
    Yeah, that's basically it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#102)
    @Choxorn you mentioned you've been to MTGS, when were you there? Was it under a different name?
    I've actually never been there, the game I was talking about was a cross-community game that had players from MTGS that was hosted here on MU. Here's a link to the game, if you want it.

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    [QUOTE=Choxorn;3259122]
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#102)
    I've actually never been there, the game I was talking about was a cross-community game that had players from MTGS that was hosted here on MU. Here's a link to the game, if you want it.
    Ahhh gotcha. I actually think I might have read that game and forgotten it, that was a sweet player list. Pretty sure proph threw it to me as an example of something way back when I was just getting started.

    What do you make of Drixx?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#105)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#103)
    Chelsea/Quinn feels TvT to me. And Lady Lambda's push on Choxorn feels real.
    I'm in a similar position but I'm a bit tentative to give it more than a day or 2 long deadline before a reeavl.

    So basically, I'm chill putting Maria and Quinn on the town shelf until maybe day 3, but you need to promise me if I'm dead and you're not you'll re-evaluate them both.

    Also, you can just call me LLD if you like. Everyone else does. or Lambda will work just fine too.
    I'll probably re-evaluate them both a few times before that. My D1 reads are usually pretty bad, so I do a lot of re-reads early on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#108)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#105)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#103)
    Chelsea/Quinn feels TvT to me. And Lady Lambda's push on Choxorn feels real.
    I'm in a similar position but I'm a bit tentative to give it more than a day or 2 long deadline before a reeavl.

    So basically, I'm chill putting Maria and Quinn on the town shelf until maybe day 3, but you need to promise me if I'm dead and you're not you'll re-evaluate them both.

    Also, you can just call me LLD if you like. Everyone else does. or Lambda will work just fine too.
    I'll probably re-evaluate them both a few times before that. My D1 reads are usually pretty bad, so I do a lot of re-reads early on
    If you had to vote this instant where would your vote go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#109)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#108)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#105)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#103)
    Chelsea/Quinn feels TvT to me. And Lady Lambda's push on Choxorn feels real.
    I'm in a similar position but I'm a bit tentative to give it more than a day or 2 long deadline before a reeavl.

    So basically, I'm chill putting Maria and Quinn on the town shelf until maybe day 3, but you need to promise me if I'm dead and you're not you'll re-evaluate them both.

    Also, you can just call me LLD if you like. Everyone else does. or Lambda will work just fine too.
    I'll probably re-evaluate them both a few times before that. My D1 reads are usually pretty bad, so I do a lot of re-reads early on
    If you had to vote this instant where would your vote go?
    I'd probably sheep you. Your argument against Choxorn is the most convincing in the game so far to me.

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    Thread Analyst Lady Lambdadelta's Avatar
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    Public Question: What do people think the value of a vote is? Is it simply an indication of your suspicions, and your voice towards the collective good, or can votes be weaponized to achieve results and interplay from opponents?

    Basically I'm asking all the people who are not currently voting someone why they aren't voting. Is it because you don't think a vote can be effective? Do you need absolute certainty or more concrete basis to place a vote? I would like to see people place more votes on what they are currently feeling and thinking. The more votes you place, the more pressure on players we can enforce, which will make them give us things to read them on. Plus, it gives me a decent path of thought I can follow on you, to see if you are cognitively consistent and if your reads come from a place of genuine creation or simply fabrication.

    tl;dr either start voting on players to create action, or explain to me why you don't vote early in games and how you will replace the void of "content".

    Because what I find funny is Chox told me "he's not voting because there's nothing to comment on" but then turns around and admits his own posts contain little to no content. That feels.... does anyone spot the problem there?

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    Almost half of the player list has not posted yet. Them posting should fill the "void" a bit.

    I really have no scumreads yet, only a few townreads, and would like to hear everyone's thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#111)
    Public Question: What do people think the value of a vote is? Is it simply an indication of your suspicions, and your voice towards the collective good, or can votes be weaponized to achieve results and interplay from opponents?

    Basically I'm asking all the people who are not currently voting someone why they aren't voting. Is it because you don't think a vote can be effective? Do you need absolute certainty or more concrete basis to place a vote? I would like to see people place more votes on what they are currently feeling and thinking. The more votes you place, the more pressure on players we can enforce, which will make them give us things to read them on. Plus, it gives me a decent path of thought I can follow on you, to see if you are cognitively consistent and if your reads come from a place of genuine creation or simply fabrication.

    tl;dr either start voting on players to create action, or explain to me why you don't vote early in games and how you will replace the void of "content".

    Because what I find funny is Chox told me "he's not voting because there's nothing to comment on" but then turns around and admits his own posts contain little to no content. That feels.... does anyone spot the problem there?
    I tend to be quite conservative with my votes. I don't usually put down a vote unless I am reasonably confident or end of day is coming. This way, my votes actually have meaning rather than someone who throws around meaningless votes all the time. An excess use of votes can diminish how impactful it is. Lots of times I see people making a vote and saying that it is for pressure. This always feels somewhat absurd, since if someone knows the vote is just for pressure, they won't feel pressured by it.

    In terms of Chox's attitude toward content, I find it quite reasonable. At the beginning of the game, there isn't that much substantial content, and thus not enough justification for a solid read. And this also means that one can't make well grounded assertions, so your posts lack content.

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    Oh my this is different than how I'm used to playing. Usually we have mafiosos and another assisted mafia but if any role can be mafia, ohboy

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    LLD I basically always want to be voting someone. I hate not having a vote down before late game and basically only don't have a vote down if I am completely flummoxed after reevaluating someone.

    Anyway I'm just not seeing it with Chox. Like yes he's complaining about nothing happening but also admitting he's doing nothing. But that's not scummy or townie. It's just passive. It makes me want to push him but I know that's just because I think it's suboptimal play. What do you make of Drixx?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault_Dweller (#101)
    Quote Originally Posted by EricKline (#86)
    Okay, before I go to bed id like to do a quick rundown of the day from my point of view.

    There has been a lot of talk about RVS, which surprises me. I was expecting everyone on here to be relatively well versed in typical game strategy. How I see it, RVS doesn't really work if its obviously RVS. The point is to draw out conversation and conflict. If its obviously RVS, no one would respond. The only reason its somewhat did its job here is because it was done in such a non traditional way.

    I'm seeing personality roles clearly come into play. I've seen the nice guy, the antagonist, the questioner, the level headed guy. I have yet to see anyone step up as a leader. Normally id like to see someone step up and try and steer conversation, but that has been absent, likely due to us getting to know each other. Maybe we need an ice breaker (we should all play mafia!/s)

    I greatly dislike this forum's host program. Quoting is difficult, mobile use is hard (especially sense everyone seems bent on quoting huge amounts and only talking in large portions. Plus its blocked on my school computers so I will have to be caring around with me a separate computer for the next few days. Expect large gaps from me, with dumps when I get on.

    Everyone seems to be talking in large chunks, rather then small banter. Again, likely due to our familiarity with the cite and others. I hope to see this go down. Foolish town will take large slabs of text as a sign of other town. Also, not sure why everyone is quoting so heavily, but I guess that's a result of how the forum is set up.

    I already have my personal excel sheet going with data on each player, sus lists, and a mafia algorithm i've bene working on. I don't plan on releasing my data till late game, so look out for that.

    I do have a few heads on my list already, but going to save heavy accusations for the morning. For now, My votes stands.

    Goodnight all, I look forward to a great game.
    This is a strange post. Complaining about walls in a wall. And why even mention your Excel spreadsheet if you're going to keep it secret? Not finding it scummy per se, just strange.
    This. This. Very much this.

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    Season 6, Game 5: The Legacy of the SANDS [The Mafia Championship] Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Chelsea The Mighty Quinn (21), EricKline (7)
    1 funnier6 Drixx (8)
    1 The Mighty Quinn Chelsea (11)
    1 Choxorn Lady Lambdadelta (9)
    1 Drixx grapefruit21 (8)
    11 Not voting Morrigan (1), QTesseract (0), Vault_Dweller (7), vonflare (0), Bobberino (1), Litten (1), Choxorn (11), Laurentus (0), fdas (8), Keith (0), funnier6 (15)


    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 9:00 PM EDT on Thursday, May 30th, 2019. There are 1559264460000 remaining.

    Posted at 2 days, 12 hours, 0 minutes, 59 seconds remaining.

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    /here and ready to roll

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    Anyway, on topic, I agree with Lady and what she said so I will be voting for Chox as well.
    ##Vote Choxorn

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    Essentially Chox seems to be trying to stay under the radar and in doing so, he messed up. Thankfully Lady pointed it out. As for the Chelsea vs. Quinn, I feel that they could both be town. For now there's too much grey area in it which is why I voted for Chox, as he's the most reasonable vote for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#119)
    Anyway, on topic, I agree with Lady and what she said so I will be voting for Chox as well.
    ##Vote Choxorn
    I don't like this vote, it seems an awful lot like bandwagoning. The fact that he only decided to tack on justification 14 minutes later in his next post shows that he came up with it later on to ward off accusations of bandwagoning after he realized he screwed up.

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    Not sure how to answer that question. I'm excited when I rand scum because I find it more challenging, but I also really enjoy playing Town.

    I tend to agree with your early read on Eric, but I'm really not seeing what you're seeing against Drixx.

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    D'oh! That was supposed to be a response to grapefruit's 88.

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    I can see how it looks like bandwagoning, but actually it isn't. I had pretty much dismissed Chox with his giant post about Zack and whatnot, and Lady had brought up how she views it which caused me to think. The main people of interest were Chelsea and Quinn, by which I had decided to wait on due to it likely being a town vs town situation, usually those tend to be lost causes and a great distraction for the mafia to remain hidden and unsuspected. So I turned my head elsewhere.

    As I was finishing catching up, (I was asleep when the game started) I had taken into account what Lady had said and she seems to be taking on an aggressive take to finding the mafia, which is usually a town strategy. Regardless, I decided to look into it myself and see who would be the best to vote for today and it came down to Chox. My mind could be changed about him but as of right now, he's sketchy to me

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    Hey, sorry for being late to this. I was busy yesterday b/c memorial day, didn’t get on that evening. I should still be fine to show up for day ends though in the future, even if I wasn’t on at launch.

    I’ll be back shortly with some games as town, scum, and third party, so you cna have something to base alignment reads off of; see what’s a town tell, what’s a scum tell, and whta it looks like eithout either. I just need to grab something to eat first. Probably take a while after that to reveiw things before casting a vote, but I do plan to do that well before days end because of the pressure they can provide even absent the hammer.

    My take on cop claims is that we can somewhay but not blindly trust them. I’ll be giving them credence, but they obviously aren’t as much of a town guarentee as they are in normal mafia or even normal power madness games. With 4 scum, there’s a solid chance that one of the cops could be scum, and if we include rolecop in that too then the odds start to become fairly unfavorable that all will be town. We still don’t want to lynch them lightly, obviously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#124)
    I can see how it looks like bandwagoning, but actually it isn't. I had pretty much dismissed Chox with his giant post about Zack and whatnot, and Lady had brought up how she views it which caused me to think. The main people of interest were Chelsea and Quinn, by which I had decided to wait on due to it likely being a town vs town situation, usually those tend to be lost causes and a great distraction for the mafia to remain hidden and unsuspected. So I turned my head elsewhere.

    As I was finishing catching up, (I was asleep when the game started) I had taken into account what Lady had said and she seems to be taking on an aggressive take to finding the mafia, which is usually a town strategy. Regardless, I decided to look into it myself and see who would be the best to vote for today and it came down to Chox. My mind could be changed about him but as of right now, he's sketchy to me
    Then why did you decide to make a contentless vote, and then make a post with reasoning 14 minutes afterwards, presumably after you realized that what you did was scummy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#93)
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#92)
    Huh... I totally skipped that paragraph in my read of that post. I guess I was too distracted by the "large slabs" bit while making a wall. Still at a town lean but I get why it pinged you.

    Chox, I'll have to reread. I have zero impression of him so far.

    Can you talk more to me about why you think there is scum on Chelsea? With only two votes there I just don't think I can draw any conclusions.
    Specifically I think the way Chelsea entered is likely to draw votes from both sides of the aisle, townies who genuinely feel weirded out by her and scum who want to capitalize on that weird sensation. In general, scum want to have justification for their votes, they don't wanna be caught with pants down if they can help it, so an easy concept in a game where most of us haven't played with each other is as scum is to vote on someone who enters like Chelsea does. Abrasive, forward, confident. Especially if someone else already has.

    Additionally, if Chox is doing what I think he's doing and fencesitting next to the wagon, the odds one of the two of them are scum with him increase dramatically, but since I want to avoid connective tells when we don't even have ONE dead person flipped, let alone the multiples that are usually needed for that kind of stuff, I'm more keeping that as a "this is a feeling I have" and not letting it drive my suspicion.

    Essentially, as a result, I'm far more confident Chox is scum, despite all the reasons given above, simply because I could be wrong about there being scum on Chelsea's wagon. I've already admitted that she's the kind of player who will draw this heat, and let's be real, she'll draw this heat regardless of her own alignment too. Though I hesitate to think she'd allow people to bus her in a game where a jury decides if she moves on...

    Put all that together I feel like Chelsea is town, and Eric and Chox are scum, and I'm most confident on Chox as scum. You should join me. I have cake.
    Wow, spicy entry. You've caught 2 scum already, good job

    I understand your argument as to why those 2 are scummy. What I don't get is why you conclude Chelsea is town, when you've said that she will draw heat as either alignment.

    Also, I think it would be really bad scum play for two scum to be anywhere near the same wagon at this point in the game. And that if scum were to decide to push a first-hour wagon on a townie, Chelsea seems like an unlikely person to pick on.

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    Well, I had simply made my first post because I agreed with Lady and her reasonings. Anything afterwards was simply an addition, the timing was irrelevant. Feel free to count those two as one post if you must. My vote's reasoning was implied with the same reasoning and Lady, I didn't feel the need to repeat it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#127)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#93)
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#92)
    Huh... I totally skipped that paragraph in my read of that post. I guess I was too distracted by the "large slabs" bit while making a wall. Still at a town lean but I get why it pinged you.

    Chox, I'll have to reread. I have zero impression of him so far.

    Can you talk more to me about why you think there is scum on Chelsea? With only two votes there I just don't think I can draw any conclusions.
    Specifically I think the way Chelsea entered is likely to draw votes from both sides of the aisle, townies who genuinely feel weirded out by her and scum who want to capitalize on that weird sensation. In general, scum want to have justification for their votes, they don't wanna be caught with pants down if they can help it, so an easy concept in a game where most of us haven't played with each other is as scum is to vote on someone who enters like Chelsea does. Abrasive, forward, confident. Especially if someone else already has.

    Additionally, if Chox is doing what I think he's doing and fencesitting next to the wagon, the odds one of the two of them are scum with him increase dramatically, but since I want to avoid connective tells when we don't even have ONE dead person flipped, let alone the multiples that are usually needed for that kind of stuff, I'm more keeping that as a "this is a feeling I have" and not letting it drive my suspicion.

    Essentially, as a result, I'm far more confident Chox is scum, despite all the reasons given above, simply because I could be wrong about there being scum on Chelsea's wagon. I've already admitted that she's the kind of player who will draw this heat, and let's be real, she'll draw this heat regardless of her own alignment too. Though I hesitate to think she'd allow people to bus her in a game where a jury decides if she moves on...

    Put all that together I feel like Chelsea is town, and Eric and Chox are scum, and I'm most confident on Chox as scum. You should join me. I have cake.
    Wow, spicy entry. You've caught 2 scum already, good job

    I understand your argument as to why those 2 are scummy. What I don't get is why you conclude Chelsea is town, when you've said that she will draw heat as either alignment.

    Also, I think it would be really bad scum play for two scum to be anywhere near the same wagon at this point in the game. And that if scum were to decide to push a first-hour wagon on a townie, Chelsea seems like an unlikely person to pick on.
    "Though I hesitate to think she'd allow people to bus her in a game where a jury decides if she moves on..."

    Therefor if I think there is scum on the Chelsea wagon, and Chelsea is unlikely to okay a bus on her, I think she looks far different if this is an unsanctioned bus on her. Reading my post is hard but the statements you are looking for ARE there you know.

    Also, is the person WHO IS VOTING ON CHELSEA telling me "Oh I don't think scum would push Chelsea early on"?

    And finally "Also, I think it would be really bad scum play for two scum to be anywhere near the same wagon "
    I agree with this post... it's why Chox is scummy. He's using that mentality to avoid interacting with the Quinn(you)/Eric/Maria(Chelsea) interaction himself, probably but not assuredly because he shares scum alignement with one of you, and my predictions speak towards it being Eric.

    None of this is completely certain, games are a risk you know? But I shouldn't have to tell you that "in Mafia obviously people aren't always right".

    So perhaps keep your snide tongue planted firmly well back in your cheek. I have two scummy reads among half of the cast who have bothered to post so far. Things evolve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#111)
    Public Question: What do people think the value of a vote is? Is it simply an indication of your suspicions, and your voice towards the collective good, or can votes be weaponized to achieve results and interplay from opponents?

    Basically I'm asking all the people who are not currently voting someone why they aren't voting. Is it because you don't think a vote can be effective? Do you need absolute certainty or more concrete basis to place a vote? I would like to see people place more votes on what they are currently feeling and thinking. The more votes you place, the more pressure on players we can enforce, which will make them give us things to read them on. Plus, it gives me a decent path of thought I can follow on you, to see if you are cognitively consistent and if your reads come from a place of genuine creation or simply fabrication.

    tl;dr either start voting on players to create action, or explain to me why you don't vote early in games and how you will replace the void of "content".

    Because what I find funny is Chox told me "he's not voting because there's nothing to comment on" but then turns around and admits his own posts contain little to no content. That feels.... does anyone spot the problem there?
    I really like this post and the tone of your entrance in general, so I hope you're Town, although clearly we are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to quickly forming confident reads.

    Obviously there are a lot of different customs out there around voting. Where I'm from committing RVS will tend to get you voted, and is accordingly rare. I think everyone agrees that you should vote when you see a good reason to vote, but people will differ in where they set the bar for a reason being "good". I made an exception this game because one silly first hour vote deserves another, but generally I don't vote super early on Day One, especially when several people haven't even posted yet.

    Now that my vote is on Chelsea, I'll keep it there until she answers my questions, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#129)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#127)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#93)
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#92)
    Huh... I totally skipped that paragraph in my read of that post. I guess I was too distracted by the "large slabs" bit while making a wall. Still at a town lean but I get why it pinged you.

    Chox, I'll have to reread. I have zero impression of him so far.

    Can you talk more to me about why you think there is scum on Chelsea? With only two votes there I just don't think I can draw any conclusions.
    Specifically I think the way Chelsea entered is likely to draw votes from both sides of the aisle, townies who genuinely feel weirded out by her and scum who want to capitalize on that weird sensation. In general, scum want to have justification for their votes, they don't wanna be caught with pants down if they can help it, so an easy concept in a game where most of us haven't played with each other is as scum is to vote on someone who enters like Chelsea does. Abrasive, forward, confident. Especially if someone else already has.

    Additionally, if Chox is doing what I think he's doing and fencesitting next to the wagon, the odds one of the two of them are scum with him increase dramatically, but since I want to avoid connective tells when we don't even have ONE dead person flipped, let alone the multiples that are usually needed for that kind of stuff, I'm more keeping that as a "this is a feeling I have" and not letting it drive my suspicion.

    Essentially, as a result, I'm far more confident Chox is scum, despite all the reasons given above, simply because I could be wrong about there being scum on Chelsea's wagon. I've already admitted that she's the kind of player who will draw this heat, and let's be real, she'll draw this heat regardless of her own alignment too. Though I hesitate to think she'd allow people to bus her in a game where a jury decides if she moves on...

    Put all that together I feel like Chelsea is town, and Eric and Chox are scum, and I'm most confident on Chox as scum. You should join me. I have cake.
    Wow, spicy entry. You've caught 2 scum already, good job

    I understand your argument as to why those 2 are scummy. What I don't get is why you conclude Chelsea is town, when you've said that she will draw heat as either alignment.

    Also, I think it would be really bad scum play for two scum to be anywhere near the same wagon at this point in the game. And that if scum were to decide to push a first-hour wagon on a townie, Chelsea seems like an unlikely person to pick on.
    "Though I hesitate to think she'd allow people to bus her in a game where a jury decides if she moves on..."

    Therefor if I think there is scum on the Chelsea wagon, and Chelsea is unlikely to okay a bus on her, I think she looks far different if this is an unsanctioned bus on her. Reading my post is hard but the statements you are looking for ARE there you know.

    Also, is the person WHO IS VOTING ON CHELSEA telling me "Oh I don't think scum would push Chelsea early on"?

    And finally "Also, I think it would be really bad scum play for two scum to be anywhere near the same wagon "
    I agree with this post... it's why Chox is scummy. He's using that mentality to avoid interacting with the Quinn(you)/Eric/Maria(Chelsea) interaction himself, probably but not assuredly because he shares scum alignement with one of you, and my predictions speak towards it being Eric.

    None of this is completely certain, games are a risk you know? But I shouldn't have to tell you that "in Mafia obviously people aren't always right".

    So perhaps keep your snide tongue planted firmly well back in your cheek. I have two scummy reads among half of the cast who have bothered to post so far. Things evolve.
    This just seems like circular reasoning to me. People vote for Chelsea for what might be scummy reasons, therefore she's probably Town? But she's also someone likely to draw votes from townies?

    I can kind of see what you mean about Chox, but I find his defense fairly plausible and I'm certainly not inclined to vote someone for fencesitting when several people haven't even posted.

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    Besides, if Eric and/or I were scum and wanted to bus our hypothetical partner Chelsea, we wouldn't actually need her permission to do so.

    I think the difference between our perspectives, Lambda, is that I'm not going to try to interpret a vote in the first hour of a 72 hour Day as though it constitutes an actual attempt to lynch someone. Presumably everyone realizes that in a game like this, having 2 votes on you at this stage doesn't mean you are more likely to be lynched than anyone else. I mean, Eric's (or my) vote certainly could have come from scum, after all they have to vote somewhere. But I don't think it is meaningfully more likely to come from scum than town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#124)
    I can see how it looks like bandwagoning, but actually it isn't. I had pretty much dismissed Chox with his giant post about Zack and whatnot, and Lady had brought up how she views it which caused me to think. The main people of interest were Chelsea and Quinn, by which I had decided to wait on due to it likely being a town vs town situation, usually those tend to be lost causes and a great distraction for the mafia to remain hidden and unsuspected. So I turned my head elsewhere.

    As I was finishing catching up, (I was asleep when the game started) I had taken into account what Lady had said and she seems to be taking on an aggressive take to finding the mafia, which is usually a town strategy. Regardless, I decided to look into it myself and see who would be the best to vote for today and it came down to Chox. My mind could be changed about him but as of right now, he's sketchy to me
    Oh, this is not good. I endorse fdas' pressure here. The last sentence in particular reeks of scum tap dancing, as does the assurance that she "looked into it herself" despite not having anything to add to Lambda's case.

    And what do you mean you "dismissed" Chox after his big Zack post? You assumed anyone who would make that post must be town?

    I will consider moving here if I am satisfied with Chelsea's responses to my questions.

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    So I reviewed the bios and the following people said they had played on mafiascum:

    Chelsea
    Drixx
    Keith
    Lambda
    vonflare
    (QTess had no bio)

    So do you all know each other fairly well? This could potentially be significant. Like if 3 or 4 of that group believed strongly that one of their number was showing their town or scum meta...of course they could all be wrong or scum, but I'd much rather sheep that read than trust my own Day One read on a stranger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#133)
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#124)
    I can see how it looks like bandwagoning, but actually it isn't. I had pretty much dismissed Chox with his giant post about Zack and whatnot, and Lady had brought up how she views it which caused me to think. The main people of interest were Chelsea and Quinn, by which I had decided to wait on due to it likely being a town vs town situation, usually those tend to be lost causes and a great distraction for the mafia to remain hidden and unsuspected. So I turned my head elsewhere.

    As I was finishing catching up, (I was asleep when the game started) I had taken into account what Lady had said and she seems to be taking on an aggressive take to finding the mafia, which is usually a town strategy. Regardless, I decided to look into it myself and see who would be the best to vote for today and it came down to Chox. My mind could be changed about him but as of right now, he's sketchy to me
    Oh, this is not good. I endorse fdas' pressure here. The last sentence in particular reeks of scum tap dancing, as does the assurance that she "looked into it herself" despite not having anything to add to Lambda's case.

    And what do you mean you "dismissed" Chox after his big Zack post? You assumed anyone who would make that post must be town?

    I will consider moving here if I am satisfied with Chelsea's responses to my questions.
    I considered him unimportant when he made the point. I did not assume he was town. And by looking into it myself, often times people make up and slander what other people say. And I did add to her case by pointing out that mafias/scum will do the things Chox is doing. Being only half-involved as not to draw suspicion, yet remaining impartial and on the fence in case one of the other mafias gets caught.

    How I see it is that, Chox could be a mafia, and because of that, he obviously knows other mafias. He doesn't want to immediately take the side of his team, because if his team gets caught, he'll be the next in line because of his support for a mafia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn (#31)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#27)
    I believe my introduction post was the most towny and you should tr me for it ty
    Really? That sounds like something a wolf would say.
    OK, this is the post that the whole Chox case is based on. It's obviously a joke. And it's silly to vote someone for posting fluff in the first hour of the game. If he has nothing substantive to say by the end of the Day, that's a problem, but right now why would you vote him over someone who hasn't posted at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#136)
    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn (#31)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#27)
    I believe my introduction post was the most towny and you should tr me for it ty
    Really? That sounds like something a wolf would say.
    OK, this is the post that the whole Chox case is based on. It's obviously a joke. And it's silly to vote someone for posting fluff in the first hour of the game. If he has nothing substantive to say by the end of the Day, that's a problem, but right now why would you vote him over someone who hasn't posted at all?
    Votes can change can they not? And I could say the same to you about Chelsea. I'm following reason that was brought up. Just because I agree with someone's point doesn't mean I'm bandwagoning. Like I said before, my mind could change, but as of now it hasn't because nothing has been brought up to change my mind. I always random vote people, Chox just happened to catch my attention so I voted him. If he canges my mind about him I will gladly change my vote.

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    Alright so this is going to be the long post so brace yourself

    First thing, when I’m playing this game don’t be surprised at these things happening

    1.Me having the most posts out of everyone here.
    2.Me saying I can’t focus and that I’ll come back to this later. (I have ADHD)
    3.My play style bring erratic. (I’m usually unpredictable when I play as I sometimes change my play style mid game for little to no reasons.)

    Some people say that I can easily be read on my progression as I have none as scum but if you try reading me on Individual posts you will always lean town on me because I know how to make posts look good however others disagree. My play style this game is probably going to be a lot different then usual as well so brace yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#20)
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...s-mafia.64772/
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...w-mafia.63299/
    The first is my most recent town game and the second is my most recent scum game.

    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...d-mafia.63078/
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...n-mafia.62561/

    The first is what I think is my best scum game and the second I think is a good example of my town play cause I'm not really sure what my best town game is.

    So in case you missed the extremely long bio,(you should read it) I'm funnier, I love meta, and please link relevant town/scum games immediately so I actually have a decent chance of reading you correctly.
    Question on this. Do you solely rely on meta to read people or do you use that to get an understanding of a player’s play style then try to read them off their posts/motivations. If you want my games

    Scum
    https://forum.imperium42.com/t/fm-va...ory/74858/1914

    https://forum.imperium42.com/t/2d3-m...ory/73224/2965

    https://forum.imperium42.com/t/ninja...-pistols/72619

    Town
    https://forum.imperium42.com/t/nsfm-...-win/74511/899

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...-in-the-Family

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#23)
    Hello? Anyone out there?

    I've never played a setup quite like this one before; I think it looks great but it will be interesting to figure it out on the fly in the Championships. At least the ruleset will give us something to talk about; that's usually what we do for most of Day One on my site.

    My initial take is that the powers that work on n1 and n2 should claim the morning after using their power. Claiming immediately will both give town information and force scum to fake a counterclaim right then or forever hold their scummy little tongues. Otherwise nobody should claim until d5 (UNLESS of course they have information which will identify scum), because if everyone whose last power was n3 claims d4, it will identify the players who still have powers to use. Actually n3 Cop should claim d4, of course.
    I agree with the fact that we should all claim after our roles are used and we should probably claim 5 minutes before you get lynched if it looks like you are going to get lynched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx (#26)
    Just got done having a marvelous Memorial Day celebration and now the delightful waiting PM that this game had started. Outstanding capper to the day, if you ask me. Although I've tended to be fairly insular and stuck with just the couple sites I've played at, I am very much looking forward to meeting you fine folks and playing together. This will hopefully be a fun adventure for all of us here.

    Reading through all the posted stuff, I realized I hadn't gone back and given a good bio to the hosts. Can you guys let me know if you actually care enough that I should rectify that mistake? There is a bio thread at MS in their GTKAS area which may suffice I think.

    Ready or not, here we go?

    Introductory chit chat out of the way, and some very early thoughts:


    I know like half the group and expect a fantastic game given that. High standards for sure.

    Choxorn gets a o.0 for that opening wall of text.

    funnier6 gets the first serious-not-serious vote for pushing meta on page one of an invitational.


    ##Vote funnier6


    Onward and upward mates!
    This seems like a pretty bad reason to vote someone even though it’s RVS and the game just started back then. It sounds like they don’t really read people based off their individuals posts/motivations well so they wanted meta.

    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#32)
    Quote Originally Posted by EricKline (#22)
    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#20)
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...s-mafia.64772/
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...w-mafia.63299/
    The first is my most recent town game and the second is my most recent scum game.

    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...d-mafia.63078/
    https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...n-mafia.62561/

    The first is what I think is my best scum game and the second I think is a good example of my town play cause I'm not really sure what my best town game is.

    So in case you missed the extremely long bio,(you should read it) I'm funnier, I love meta, and please link relevant town/scum games immediately so I actually have a decent chance of reading you correctly.
    A game I'm wrapping up right now: https://www.chiefdelphi.com/t/frc-m8-game-thread/357983
    (Because its not over, to be fair to other players, I wont be able to disclose if I'm mafia or town, but it should be pretty obvious if you read through.)


    Scum Game:
    https://www.chiefdelphi.com/t/frcm5-thread/349824/3413

    Have fun.
    I... have never seen a forum that didn't have pages. O-O
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#23)
    Hello? Anyone out there?

    I've never played a setup quite like this one before; I think it looks great but it will be interesting to figure it out on the fly in the Championships. At least the ruleset will give us something to talk about; that's usually what we do for most of Day One on my site.

    My initial take is that the powers that work on n1 and n2 should claim the morning after using their power. Claiming immediately will both give town information and force scum to fake a counterclaim right then or forever hold their scummy little tongues. Otherwise nobody should claim until d5 (UNLESS of course they have information which will identify scum), because if everyone whose last power was n3 claims d4, it will identify the players who still have powers to use. Actually n3 Cop should claim d4, of course.
    Kay so forum software is beating me up, how the heck does one quote individual pieces of someone's post?

    I don't really like to talk mechanics too much on day one cause you cant really read into that but considering this setup allows any role to be scum I think focusing on the setup will likely hurt town (or at least me) cause there's no way to know what roles scum are in control of and therefore no one's results can be trusted and there's just wayyyy too much paranoia in it.
    People shouldn’t be focusing on the setup but they should still claim their role. This way it limits scum from claiming roles that others have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx (#38)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#33)
    My all time record is 9-12. 2-7 as Vanilla Town, 2-4 as scum...but 5-1 as Town power role! So we should be in good shape here.
    Why on earth would you post that on page one? It's not even good wine.
    I have a feeling we are going to be arguing a lot in this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#41)
    ##Vote vonflare

    Sup peeps! Really hyped for this game.

    Anyway do any of you each other? I don't recognize any names I don't think.
    Was this a random vote or was there an actual reasoning to this vote that you didn’t mention? Reason I’m asking is the way this post goes it just seemed weird to put a vote and there and then to say nothing else about the vote.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx (#38)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#33)
    My all time record is 9-12. 2-7 as Vanilla Town, 2-4 as scum...but 5-1 as Town power role! So we should be in good shape here.
    Why on earth would you post that on page one? It's not even good wine.
    I'm lulling you all into a false sense of security. MWAH HAH HAH!
    This post seemed towny when you look at it. The way they just shrugged off the accusation by making a joke instead of justifying why they posted it seemed towny.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricKline (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#37)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#28)
    Speaking of introduction posts
    ##Vote The Mighty Quinn
    K.

    ##Vote Chelsea

    Why?
    Yeah I'm with this guy, I don't like no random voting

    ##Vote Chelsea

    (Is that how to vote?)
    This post bothers me because it seems like a really weird reason to vote someone but it may just be community differents. You are tub on throne of lies correct? How do you usually go about early D1 on your site then?

    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#54)
    Quinn are you town? I want you to be town.


    Anyway back in a few hours.
    This seems like a really weird statement to make and it feels like they just said it because they had nothing else they wanted to say and they wanted to look like they are doing something without actually doing anything.

    This is me just commenting on the small posts and now I’m going to try to comment and read the long posts and reread the thread guess you can say this is my attempt to enter the thread

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    Season 6, Game 5: The Legacy of the SANDS [The Mafia Championship] Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Chelsea The Mighty Quinn (30), EricKline (7)
    2 Choxorn Lady Lambdadelta (10), Morrigan (7)
    1 funnier6 Drixx (8)
    1 The Mighty Quinn Chelsea (11)
    1 Drixx grapefruit21 (8)
    10 Not voting QTesseract (1), Vault_Dweller (7), vonflare (1), Litten (2), Laurentus (0), Choxorn (11), Bobberino (1), fdas (10), Keith (0), funnier6 (15)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 9:00 PM EDT on Thursday, May 30th, 2019. There are 1559264460000 remaining.

    Requested by Litten at 2 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes, 3 seconds remaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn (#94)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lambdadelta (#89)
    ##Vote Choxorn

    My dude is fencesitting like a $#@!, posting contentless information to skate along, calling it strange that there's not as many votes as you would expect, without setting a vote himself. He calls one of Maria's posts scummy in a non-commital manner, so he could back off it like a joke if needed. You know the concept of Schrodinger's Douchebag? Where people can say stuff and then if people call them out on it they can pretend it was a joke? Feels a lot like he's just hanging on a similar edge except instead of saying mildly offensive nonsense he's pushing on townies without dirtying his hands.
    You're really reaching here. I'll admit my posts are mostly devoid of content. I made nearly all of them within an hour of the start of the game, how much content are you expecting me to have at this point?

    My read of Chelsea wasn't at all serious. It was more or less an RVS vote without the actual vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn (#100)
    My commentary wasn't just "There's not as many votes as I expected," though I guess I didn't do a good job of getting my point across. Fdas wondered if Chelsea was getting votes just for being the first person to place a vote, I thought that might be it, and it might just be that different communities have different metas for how the early game should go with regards to RVS. Most of the games I've played in the past had much more RVS at the start than this. My lack of a random vote is because I don't think there's necessarily much of a point in RVS'ing other than for some early-game fun, and from reading the thread, it looked to me like most people didn't really want to have an RVS stage.

    My lack of a non-random vote is because it's a few hours into day 1, there's less than 100 posts in the thread, half the players haven't even shown up yet, and I don't have any feelings on Chelsea or the Chelsea-wagon strong enough to place a serious vote on anybody. As I said, my original read was a joke, Chelsea's vote looked random, and the reaction to it didn't really jump out to me the way it has to you.

    @Choxorn now that there are more posts do you have any feelings on the people in the game. Right now it seems like you were more worried about defending yourself then trying to read people in the game and I expect that you would at least try to read into the small amount of posts then (or rather when you posted after this)

  41. Bookmark ISO #141
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    After reading Morgan’s post I really want to murder them but I’m wondering if it’s a play style thing or it’s because they are actually scum.

    Their posts sound overly formal to begin with while the way they justify their votes seem to also be ringing my alarm bells. Another thing I found scummy is this

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#120)
    Essentially Chox seems to be trying to stay under the radar and in doing so, he messed up. Thankfully Lady pointed it out. As for the Chelsea vs. Quinn, I feel that they could both be town. For now there's too much grey area in it which is why I voted for Chox, as he's the most reasonable vote for now.
    It looks like they automatically think that the person they voted will flip scum especially with the part “Thankfully lady pointed it out”. It could be an example of them being scum with the person he’s voting and he decided to try to early bus. Another thing that bothers me is how it seems like Step by Step they explain their process as it seems like they are over explaining it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#124)
    I can see how it looks like bandwagoning, but actually it isn't. I had pretty much dismissed Chox with his giant post about Zack and whatnot, and Lady had brought up how she views it which caused me to think. The main people of interest were Chelsea and Quinn, by which I had decided to wait on due to it likely being a town vs town situation, usually those tend to be lost causes and a great distraction for the mafia to remain hidden and unsuspected. So I turned my head elsewhere.

    As I was finishing catching up, (I was asleep when the game started) I had taken into account what Lady had said and she seems to be taking on an aggressive take to finding the mafia, which is usually a town strategy. Regardless, I decided to look into it myself and see who would be the best to vote for today and it came down to Chox. My mind could be changed about him but as of right now, he's sketchy to me
    @Morrigan question, what are your other reads besides the person you are voting. It seems like you have no other reads.

  42. Bookmark ISO #142
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    Like what they are doing reminds me of what I do as scum. As scum I’m able to escape almost unescapble situations (for example I accidentally scumslipped but I explained it was a test with every exact post having a thought process behind it).

  43. Bookmark ISO #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigan (#137)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#136)
    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn (#31)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#27)
    I believe my introduction post was the most towny and you should tr me for it ty
    Really? That sounds like something a wolf would say.
    OK, this is the post that the whole Chox case is based on. It's obviously a joke. And it's silly to vote someone for posting fluff in the first hour of the game. If he has nothing substantive to say by the end of the Day, that's a problem, but right now why would you vote him over someone who hasn't posted at all?
    Votes can change can they not? And I could say the same to you about Chelsea. I'm following reason that was brought up. Just because I agree with someone's point doesn't mean I'm bandwagoning. Like I said before, my mind could change, but as of now it hasn't because nothing has been brought up to change my mind. I always random vote people, Chox just happened to catch my attention so I voted him. If he canges my mind about him I will gladly change my vote.
    ##Vote Morrigan
    that was the icing on the cake

  44. Bookmark ISO #144
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    Season 6, Game 5: The Legacy of the SANDS [The Mafia Championship] Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Chelsea The Mighty Quinn (30), EricKline (7)
    2 Choxorn Lady Lambdadelta (10), Morrigan (7)
    1 funnier6 Drixx (8)
    1 The Mighty Quinn Chelsea (11)
    1 Drixx grapefruit21 (8)
    1 Morrigan Litten (6)
    9 Not voting QTesseract (1), Vault_Dweller (7), vonflare (1), Bobberino (1), Laurentus (0), Choxorn (11), fdas (10), Keith (0), funnier6 (15)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 9:00 PM EDT on Thursday, May 30th, 2019. There are 1559264460000 remaining.

    Requested by Litten at 2 days, 8 hours, 6 minutes, 54 seconds remaining.

  45. Bookmark ISO #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn (#122)
    Not sure how to answer that question. I'm excited when I rand scum because I find it more challenging, but I also really enjoy playing Town.

    I tend to agree with your early read on Eric, but I'm really not seeing what you're seeing against Drixx.
    Exact opposite way for me

    I’m extremely bored as scum because it’s so easy to peer into someone’s thought process as town and then do exactly what they would find towny

  46. Bookmark ISO #146
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    I’m fine with Morrigan/Choxorn as wagons as they both seem like scum to me but I’m going to divide and conquer here

  47. Bookmark ISO #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#27)
    I believe my introduction post was the most towny and you should tr me for it ty
    The fact you're worried about getting tr'd so early bugs me

    also

    Hello

  48. Bookmark ISO #148
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    I’ll post more when I get home and can focus directly on this game as right now I’m on phone and low brightness trying to focus and it’s hard.

  49. Bookmark ISO #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litten (#148)
    I’ll post more when I get home and can focus directly on this game as right now I’m on phone and low brightness trying to focus and it’s hard.
    random question: you're not just going to post for the sake of posting, are you?

  50. Bookmark ISO #150
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    Okay.

    I'm real enough to see the hypocrisy in my post. I certainly misspoke. I should have elaborated that I wasn't annoyed with personal actions of any of you, but that the software made it difficult to have that sort of helpful banter. Furthermore I should have been more clear on how I will have to play this game. Because my school doesn't allow the cite, I will only be able to check in and talk mostly in large posts infrequently. Keep in mind, I read most everything as it comes in on mobile, but only respond when I get on my computer.

    For my excel sheet, clearly I have played in different strategy's as all of you. We aren't a team. Its my own resource to use to clear my own thoughts. Its not even useful until late game, as I have barely any data on you. That's why I have chose to leave it out.

    As for my late game comment, I ask, do you yourself not plan to be alive in the late game? If you're not playing to be alive in the late game, why bother playing at all? Clearly you wouldn't find yourself useful.

    For proof, I have attached a picture of my current setup as I sit in AP Gov. On the far left screen, is my current game on my home server. On the right side of the left screen, is my excel document, so you know its real. on the right screen is this game.

    (lol I went to go upload it but I have no clue how to upload pictures to this so any of yall know how to upload a photo?)

    I don't particularly like ya'll taking my post from "kinda hypocritical" to "damnn this guy is definitely mafia." Seems like a bit of a stretch, no? I really hope we're just dealing with some town looking for a mafia and not some mafia foolish enough to go about accusing like that this early, or this game will be far to easy.


    Normally, when I play a game with inactivity from a few select players, a good strategy to prompt discussion is to ask for a required vote. We ping everyone. And we ask them to vote for someone. Not only will this start conversation, but give the livers after eod with a surplus of usable data. What do you guys think of trying this out?
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Role of the Day
Disguiser

The Disguiser is a mafia-aligned player that may target a player every night. If the target dies on that night, the Disguiser will steal their identity.