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Thread: Big Rock's Mountainous Day 4
Day 4 

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    Wowee much hype Limestone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2100)
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2098)
    He does replicate the way he interacts with me somewhat when hes wolf, just not the way he reads me.
    Now I'm curious but I'll just wait for you to pulverize me when I rand wolf lol

    You deserve it

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    Soul Reader AndrewGreve's Avatar
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    Lime, were you surprised that amrock was so confident he couldn't get to lylo with me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1905)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1904)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#1898)
    Amrock, as a wolf, you think you could post this volume with me over 5 day phases and make it to lylo with me still village reading you?
    No
    I don't get the point of this question lol, feels weird but w/e
    If you're talking about this post Andrew then no, the answer doesn't seem weird to me. Remaining village read until lylo as... tbh either alignment is a feat in itself lol

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    current thoughts on amrock after sciming his iso on pog 2+2:

    Good:
    - His willingness to consider different alignments in his scum reads is directly counter to pog anni. He never waivers on bennah or the guy that shot at him in ITA's

    - His posting style is actually significantly less aggressive, confrontational, and rude. He had his moments in this game on d1 but in pog anni he was ALL CAPS A BUNCH, calling players idiots, and insulting their play for the entire game.

    - Nothing at all resembling the wall posts here in pog anni

    Concerns:

    - His seemingly sudden shock at my play style. He modded my first game on MU and paid pretty close attention to me in that game. commented/ quoted me in DVC and discussed me with frog in DVC(specifically my style being clinical and detatched)

    - Honestly expected villager!amrock to believe he could fool me as a hypothetical wolf. Perhaps I expect to much hubris from amrock or underestimate his opinion of me.

    Things to do:

    - brush up on OPmash(villager) where I don't remember any rudeness or aggression from amrock
    - brush up on x-com(anon-Wolf) where I don't remember any rudeness or aggression from amrock


    Conclusion:

    I have seen a few facets of amrock's game play and know he has different speeds he can play as wolf(x-com vs pog anni) so I am naturally paranoid. I think the only villager game I have seen of amrock was OPmash and the only game I was a villager with amrock in the game prior to this one was pog anni, where I was mostly afk. I have no idea what V/V with amrock will feel like yet. All that said, he has been incredibly villagery with his tone and earnestness. When he mentioned working hard while no one else is working ITT, I felt it.

    I have amrock at Village lean and I am not sure I will ever have him higher than that. Unless I discover over time I am good at reading him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2103)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1905)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1904)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#1898)
    Amrock, as a wolf, you think you could post this volume with me over 5 day phases and make it to lylo with me still village reading you?
    No
    I don't get the point of this question lol, feels weird but w/e
    If you're talking about this post Andrew then no, the answer doesn't seem weird to me. Remaining village read until lylo as... tbh either alignment is a feat in itself lol
    I guess I just have an internal image of amrock as confidence incarnate.

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    wait I might be thinking of apoc in the BSG DVC

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#505)
    Quote Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee (#376)
    if i die n1 again

    i will actually stab a baby

    wolves be warned
    I have noticed posts like this are more often made by wolves
    Did you quote this post amrock in DVC that game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHumaid (#2081)
    ##Vote Jackofhearts2005

    I want to see something.
    Did it work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2074)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2068)
    Sheeping WWS and Shad just puts me where I already am.
    What does this mean
    The reads of the players I trust (Shad who flipped town and WWS who shares my slot) from like pages 6-10 are largely the same as my reads anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi (#2072)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#1716)
    Big Rock's Mountainous Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Jackofhearts2005 Limestone (25), Mikan Tsumiki (14)
    1 Ampharos Seththeking (15)
    1 AndrewGreve AbuHumaid (5)
    1 Mikan Tsumiki Michelle (9)
    1 Duskfall Amrock (52)
    7 Not voting Duskfall (14), Lamphouse (4), Mantichondria (3), Jackofhearts2005 (6), AndrewGreve (29), Ampharos (1), Manasi (10)

    View Vote History

    Day 2 ends at 9:00 PM EDT on Friday, June 14th, 2019. There are 1560560460000 remaining.

    Requested by Jackofhearts2005 at 3 days, 7 hours, 25 minutes, 45 seconds remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#1719)
    @Limestone @Lamphouse @Mikan Tsumiki @Seththeking

    Aren’t y’all gonna come introduce yourselves?
    Sorry - catching up from here. Shouldn't be that long since nobody's posting.

    This is already a weird part of Jack's entrance. I don't really understand the relevance of pinging the people that are off of his wagon but.. I also don't know if there's anything to read into there.
    Those are the players I haven’t played with before.

    Except maybe Limestone. I’m a friendly guy.

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    Mikan is smartbomb if you've played with them

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    Hey amrock is that game theory post you linked something new you got into?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHumaid (#2080)
    Jack and Lamp are scum together.
    Nah. I was trying to get him to contradict his lock town read on WWS earlier. It was a real awkward conv. Kinda annoyed me off like “this is gonna look like wolf theatre.” But now I’m the guy saying “awkwaaaaard” out loud. 😬

    Also I multiisoed myself to find my place and I have more posts than Lamp. With all the players here who somewhat know my style, I could just hammer him with memes and gifs and look all good, esp to AG. Everyone scumreads him. He’s a dead slot as a wolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2111)
    Mikan is smartbomb if you've played with them
    Yeah but I didn’t know that at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2113)
    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHumaid (#2080)
    Jack and Lamp are scum together.
    Nah. I was trying to get him to contradict his lock town read on WWS earlier. It was a real awkward conv. Kinda annoyed me off like “this is gonna look like wolf theatre.” But now I’m the guy saying “awkwaaaaard” out loud. 😬

    Also I multiisoed myself to find my place and I have more posts than Lamp. With all the players here who somewhat know my style, I could just hammer him with memes and gifs and look all good, esp to AG. Everyone scumreads him. He’s a dead slot as a wolf.
    The memes would need to be crisp for any village cred sir.

    for the record you werent hammering salt with jokes/memes

    you were pointing out wolfy posts, and giving analysis in the form of jokes, etc. There is a big difference.

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    let me know when you are fully caught up please jack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2115)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2113)
    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHumaid (#2080)
    Jack and Lamp are scum together.
    Nah. I was trying to get him to contradict his lock town read on WWS earlier. It was a real awkward conv. Kinda annoyed me off like “this is gonna look like wolf theatre.” But now I’m the guy saying “awkwaaaaard” out loud. 😬

    Also I multiisoed myself to find my place and I have more posts than Lamp. With all the players here who somewhat know my style, I could just hammer him with memes and gifs and look all good, esp to AG. Everyone scumreads him. He’s a dead slot as a wolf.
    The memes would need to be crisp for any village cred sir.

    for the record you werent hammering salt with jokes/memes

    you were pointing out wolfy posts, and giving analysis in the form of jokes, etc. There is a big difference.
    I mean, there’s material for Lamp too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#333)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#229)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#148)
    Amrock has had some towny content, and this does feel different to their scum game (which is the only thing I've experienced).

    However it pings me that he's kinda doing a bit of "oh look how town I am" (there's a mafia term for that I forgot someone educate me if you wish). Does anyone have any idea if they do this a lot as town based on meta? Specifically the teaching people to play post kinda pinged me, seems unecessary in a mafia game with a lot of experienced people unless you are just looking for easy towncred.
    The term you're looking for is LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Town).

    As for whether or not Amrock would do it: if he read those articles like right before the game I can 100% see him doing it.
    This is the non self meta I was looking for, ty
    villagery mindset

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#852)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#394)
    How can Dusk be this level one?
    I know this it nitpicky but for me this is a wolf tell on amrock, last game I played with him he called me bad at every opportunity and kept trying to policy lynch me for correctly scumreading him. The fact that to this point my only two scumleans were the two insulting my play kinda tells me I'm on the right track tbh with them.

    Want to really emphasis that spamming the game with wallposts doesn't make you town and townreading the whole game like amrock is, is literally my scum game so this pings me. It lets you pocket a load of people at once and not look sketchy because you aren't buddying anyone specific.
    villagery mindset

    This guy has mountains of fluff and is completely absent. He has the villageriest tone I've ever seen which probably points to a weakness in my own skill because he's done nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamphouse (#2118)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#333)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#229)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#148)
    Amrock has had some towny content, and this does feel different to their scum game (which is the only thing I've experienced).

    However it pings me that he's kinda doing a bit of "oh look how town I am" (there's a mafia term for that I forgot someone educate me if you wish). Does anyone have any idea if they do this a lot as town based on meta? Specifically the teaching people to play post kinda pinged me, seems unecessary in a mafia game with a lot of experienced people unless you are just looking for easy towncred.
    The term you're looking for is LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Town).

    As for whether or not Amrock would do it: if he read those articles like right before the game I can 100% see him doing it.
    This is the non self meta I was looking for, ty
    villagery mindset

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#852)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#394)
    How can Dusk be this level one?
    I know this it nitpicky but for me this is a wolf tell on amrock, last game I played with him he called me bad at every opportunity and kept trying to policy lynch me for correctly scumreading him. The fact that to this point my only two scumleans were the two insulting my play kinda tells me I'm on the right track tbh with them.

    Want to really emphasis that spamming the game with wallposts doesn't make you town and townreading the whole game like amrock is, is literally my scum game so this pings me. It lets you pocket a load of people at once and not look sketchy because you aren't buddying anyone specific.
    villagery mindset

    This guy has mountains of fluff and is completely absent. He has the villageriest tone I've ever seen which probably points to a weakness in my own skill because he's done nothing.
    Can you describe the mindset. What do you think was going through his head when he wrote the posts.

    I'll be honest I didn't read the quotes, I just saw that you wrote the same thing under 2 quotes and had no other supporting thoughts on the read.

    To make it fair, after you describe what you THINK was in their head as the made those posts or had that villagery mindset you mentioned. I will read the quotes and do the same.

    deal?

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    I think you fail to realize that we need to understand what you are thinking, why you are thinking those things, and how you arrived at those thoughts.

    People don't ask for reads from players to help them solve a different slot(often). They ask players for reads to understand THAT players slot.

    you can give me more BS about style differences or harassing you, but I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2120)
    you can give me more BS about style differences or harassing you, but I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.

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    cool

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    do you plan to make any effort in explaining anything you say this game?

    or are you waiting for me to give my full reads list so you can copy my posts and pretend they are your own again?

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    Wowee much hype Limestone's Avatar
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    Lamp's posts today read

    Very mafia to me

    tone wise

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    Predicting wolf flip today

    Feels like we're on a decent track

    Lamp + Mikan/Jack + ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2120)
    I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.
    I assume this describes Lamp? Tell me about that.

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    Big Rock's Mountainous Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 Lamphouse AndrewGreve (136), Ampharos (22), Amrock (141), Mantichondria (10)
    4 Jackofhearts2005 Limestone (68), Mikan Tsumiki (30), Duskfall (26), AbuHumaid (8)
    1 Mikan Tsumiki Michelle (13)
    1 Duskfall Seththeking (19)
    1 AbuHumaid Lamphouse (28)
    2 Not voting Jackofhearts2005 (77), Manasi (17)

    View Vote History

    Day 2 ends at 9:00 PM EDT on Friday, June 14th, 2019. There are 1560560460000 remaining.

    Requested by Jackofhearts2005 at 1 days, 21 hours, 19 minutes, 8 seconds remaining.

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    I love these long phases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2128)
    I love these long phases.
    I don't get it. I would like the extra time to solve but I dont like being in the game for too long lol

    Also flips are hype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2126)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2120)
    I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.
    I assume this describes Lamp? Tell me about that.
    he told me he holds the record for most lynched player ever on pog. I believe Soah also brought it up in madness #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2129)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2128)
    I love these long phases.
    I don't get it. I would like the extra time to solve but I dont like being in the game for too long lol

    Also flips are hype.
    I think I really like 36/12

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    Wowee much hype Limestone's Avatar
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    jack I am hype for your readthrough btw

    or the continuation of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2131)
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2129)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2128)
    I love these long phases.
    I don't get it. I would like the extra time to solve but I dont like being in the game for too long lol

    Also flips are hype.
    I think I really like 36/12
    same

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2132)
    jack I am hype for your readthrough btw

    or the continuation of it
    high chance I switch to lamp as this rate btw

    Just here cause tied wagons look more fun

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    Dusk never expanded on why he had those 4 village reads.

    Hey lime,

    What do you think about dusk saying you were village for pushing shad, then being confused and asking you about your wall post because he was skimming then listing you as village again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#864)

    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#463)
    I guess I'll start by talking about my stances before I properly read through the game and then describe some of the thoughts I had after reading through to more accurately show how I'm viewing the game. If people say things that I deem unproductive I will ignore them while getting through the rest of the information I want to talk about.

    Let's start with why I originally did not like Shad and I can talk about how the read progressed later.

    Shad

    The first real thought I had on Shad was when i saw Amrock calling him and Ampharos both villagers and I thought to myself "Why Shad" because my impression with how much I had payed attention at the time was Shad appeared to be less in the game solvey villager camp and more in the feigning interest while being trolly camp which was just a light gut not townlean at the time.

    What i really felt was actively wolfy from them was their reaction to Duk3star's entry and their proceeding reaction to my own:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#346)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#341)
    Limestone wagon is very weak.

    With love,
    Duk3star
    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#343)
    Manasi wagon isn't much better.

    With love,
    Duk3star
    How does one have an actual opinion on the Manasi wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#350)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duk3star (#348)
    Because shes had 3 total post and none of them were anything.

    With love,
    Duk3star
    And both people voting her are very familiar with her so it's a weird observation to make, I think.

    Like I would be flabbergasted if this phase actually ended with her barely making min requirements.


    I responded to this interaction with a hard "yikes" for Shad.

    Let's look at what Duk3star said: "Limestone wagon is very weak. Manasi wagon isn't much better."

    There is nothing inherinetly wrong with either of these statements. What he's saying is both main wagons that we had at the time had a weak foundation which implies the wagons being pushed were on players with not much to go on and would produce essentially rand results. Now don't get me wrong, I think think if it were like one hour to eod and players were still at rand then they're often fine wagons. But that doesn't mean they're not weak especially when done too early without a proper "Person said this and it is scummy because ---"

    Shad's response "How does one have an actual opinion on the Manasi wagon" not only doesn't follow up with what Duk3 said but also doesn't make sense as a point in general. This is a game of forming opinions and forming opinions on wagons is perfectly normal. Additionally the opinion he gave is an accurate assement of the Manasi wagon even if it's right. The foundation is weak because none of Manasi's posts leave us anything to go on.

    Next Shad said "And both people voting her are very familiar with her so it's a weird observation to make, I think."

    Which has three issues: 1: It implies the Manasi wagon is based on something real since it's by people who know her when her posts on the game leave nothing to go on so knowing her shouldn't mean a whole lot unless she plays like Creature. 2: It gives an opinion on the Manasi wagon which nullifys what he just said about "How does one have an opion on the Manasi wagon" and 3: It calls Duk3star observation weird when it seems like a natural observation for Duk3star to make.

    So yeah I was starting to form a wolflean on Shad when I read this interaction and archieved it as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#379)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantichondria (#376)
    I disagree. It's highly productive in motivating you to lime it up. The alternative is death, really.

    What do you think about Duke defending manasi and you?
    He said the votes were weak (implied because they're on people with nothing to go on) which was accurate. He did defend Manasi saying this was their townplay.

    Neither point he said is wolfy nor a reason to comfortably call him not a wolf. Slightly above null.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#380)
    ##Vote Limestone tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#381)
    How do you get a town read on duk out of what you just stated


    Yet another off from Shad. What I said was that i thought what Duk3star said was accurate and I had him slightly above null. Shad's response that I had a townread on him is a direct misquote since i just said he was a nullread that I thought favorably of.

    So let's refine his point and say his misinterpreted the strength of my read on Duk3. "How do you get a positive leaning read on duk out of what you just stated"

    When is this ever not answered with 'because that's how I feel about his alignment and because what he's said about the game seemed accurate to me.'? Doesn't really seem like a belivable way to look at my post and say it's a point against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#260)
    Not gonna lie I'm pretty sure you've been in bull$#@! mode since your first wall but I've seen no reason to think it's wolfy bull$#@! and not just Amrock amusing himself bull$#@!

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Amrock has given like several walls of talking about reads and how he thinks we should play so how is this interpreted as Amrock amusing himself? This post and the others I've talked about just leave me thinking Shad is talking about things that happened in the game without really thinking about them since the things he's been saying have been so odd to me.

    So at this point I'm like aboard with a Shad wolfread. He's not defending people who are under fire, he's making wolfreads on the people who are all easier pushes and haven't done much while taking no stance of trying to find town in the less apparently towny people, his posts make it seem like hes not actually thinking about the game and what's being said while he's talking about the game and what's being said which is typically wolfy, and he just didn't feel towny to me.

    But huh there's a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#394)
    100% villager
    Amph- Always villa
    Shad- Very very very likely villa
    Lamp, Michelle, WWS- Just think are town here.
    Ruri, Abu-> Town leaning, but would say are town a good >rand percent of the time


    Read only part of his wall at this point looking for his logic on me which I decided was fair enough though I don't get where he got the point about me caring more about being lynched as town over mafia XD

    But anyway I searched Amrock's wall using a hidden feature known as ctrl-f and didn't find much explanation to why he had Shad town. I tend to like to trust Amrock's judgement when he's this confident. Unfortunately there was nothing in the wall explaining the read on SHad so I turned to his iso.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#128)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#127)
    Villagers; Amrock
    Probably a villager: Ampharos, Michelle
    Probably a villager, but less confident: Shad
    Slight village lean: Abu, Lamphouse
    Null: Everyone else (ie Duk3star, Duskfall, klaot, lime, manasi, manti, SB, ruri, WWS)
    Shad-> Meh, I actually think his wolf game is improving lately. But still think his overall tone was villagery and also thought his read on me right now was fairly villagery too. I think if he's a wolf he might be more cautious in how he reads me. Not entirely sure, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#250)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#162)
    What on earth is your baseline for my wolf game improving?
    I thought your previous wolfgame you were able to emulate your villagery tone fairly well, but I did think you did fall short in a few key areas, particularly in your reactions and, well, substance. This game is a clear difference to me, though, (from your wolf game), and I feel confident in saying that I think you've fairly clearly shattered your wolf ceiling at this point. Yes, even this early on day 1. (Your stuff with Abu/talk about me kinda cemented it with me)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#262)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#260)
    Not gonna lie I'm pretty sure you've been in bull$#@! mode since your first wall but I've seen no reason to think it's wolfy bull$#@! and not just Amrock amusing himself bull$#@!

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    It hasn't been bull$#@!, so I don't know what you've thought that in the slightest. I quite literally did almost the exact same thing in the most recent 12/12 game with Limestone- Poe, finding villagers, doing meta building, solving the game through PoE on day 1-, except mow I have 5 days so I can take the luxury of explaining my thoughts and going through my thought process so people aren't like
    "why does this fool have like 8 townreads so quickly" and more like "oh, ok, I see what he's doing."


    So I guess the main points here are Shad's read on Amrock and Shad's read on Abu being towny yeah? My first reaction to the point abou Shad wouldn't read Amrock a certain way as wolf was that wolves will read people any way if they're just looking for a way to talk about the game.

    So next point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#164)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikan Tsumiki (#154)
    Amrock is a little scummy, he's trying to pocket many people with little reason, lynch this fool with fire.

    ##Vote Amrock

    U-um... I'm so sorry if I sound suspicious... I'm not... I promise... but... Mr AbuHumaid...

    Why are you... so... um... I don't know the word... elastic with your statements? Why must you be this upset at Amrock.... I... think I am missing something... I'm sorry for writing this post... it probably means nothing and I just wanted to ask why you... were... so... confident?

    I'm sorry for taking up your time, this was a useless question... please forgive me...
    Oh my god he said it again

    If this is a functional abu scum tell I'm going to looooooool into oblivion
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#169)
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#167)
    Although @Shad just said this kind of posting is a scumtell for Abu i guess? I don't really see it tbh. Shad are you sure you aren't just applying something you saw in a scum game once that is nai?
    Nope 100% lock it in Abu only calls his $#@!post shot/vote targets fools when he is a wolf.

    Speaking of which, I forgot to say pineapple in my opening post eeeeeeeee
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#364)
    These people are fine for now;
    Ampharos
    Amrock
    Duskfall
    Michelle
    Ruri
    WaywardSon

    These people exist:
    AbuHumaid
    Lamphouse

    These people don't exist:
    duk3star
    klaot
    Limestone
    Manasi

    I can't read RP or Manti at this stage. Mikan slightly underwhelming I guess but if this was a mash we're still in the first hour of game play


    At first I really didn't see it. Shad hardly talks about Abu and his read really isn't in depth or anything. He even votes Manasi instead while saying this.

    That said I saw it a little more when catching up. Felt like Mikan and Shad mindmelding about seeing wolf behavior and Shad believing the meta thing might be a real thing.

    So yeah dunno wasn't convinced immediately. Then I caught up and thought some of Shad's posts seemed more villagery in real time and think Shad felt different than my experiences with wolf Shad so I guess I'm putting this on the back burner for now but this is my thought process mostly before catching up XD


    If limestone was wolf I don't think he would try lynch shad tbh, there's far easily places to lynch and idt limestone would pick an unecessary fight like this if he's wolf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#866)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#864)
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#463)
    I guess I'll start by talking about my stances before I properly read through the game and then describe some of the thoughts I had after reading through to more accurately show how I'm viewing the game. If people say things that I deem unproductive I will ignore them while getting through the rest of the information I want to talk about.

    Let's start with why I originally did not like Shad and I can talk about how the read progressed later.

    Shad

    The first real thought I had on Shad was when i saw Amrock calling him and Ampharos both villagers and I thought to myself "Why Shad" because my impression with how much I had payed attention at the time was Shad appeared to be less in the game solvey villager camp and more in the feigning interest while being trolly camp which was just a light gut not townlean at the time.

    What i really felt was actively wolfy from them was their reaction to Duk3star's entry and their proceeding reaction to my own:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#346)
    Manasi wagon isn't much better.

    With love,
    Duk3star

    How does one have an actual opinion on the Manasi wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#350)
    And both people voting her are very familiar with her so it's a weird observation to make, I think.

    Like I would be flabbergasted if this phase actually ended with her barely making min requirements.


    I responded to this interaction with a hard "yikes" for Shad.

    Let's look at what Duk3star said: "Limestone wagon is very weak. Manasi wagon isn't much better."

    There is nothing inherinetly wrong with either of these statements. What he's saying is both main wagons that we had at the time had a weak foundation which implies the wagons being pushed were on players with not much to go on and would produce essentially rand results. Now don't get me wrong, I think think if it were like one hour to eod and players were still at rand then they're often fine wagons. But that doesn't mean they're not weak especially when done too early without a proper "Person said this and it is scummy because ---"

    Shad's response "How does one have an actual opinion on the Manasi wagon" not only doesn't follow up with what Duk3 said but also doesn't make sense as a point in general. This is a game of forming opinions and forming opinions on wagons is perfectly normal. Additionally the opinion he gave is an accurate assement of the Manasi wagon even if it's right. The foundation is weak because none of Manasi's posts leave us anything to go on.

    Next Shad said "And both people voting her are very familiar with her so it's a weird observation to make, I think."

    Which has three issues: 1: It implies the Manasi wagon is based on something real since it's by people who know her when her posts on the game leave nothing to go on so knowing her shouldn't mean a whole lot unless she plays like Creature. 2: It gives an opinion on the Manasi wagon which nullifys what he just said about "How does one have an opion on the Manasi wagon" and 3: It calls Duk3star observation weird when it seems like a natural observation for Duk3star to make.

    So yeah I was starting to form a wolflean on Shad when I read this interaction and archieved it as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#379)
    He said the votes were weak (implied because they're on people with nothing to go on) which was accurate. He did defend Manasi saying this was their townplay.

    Neither point he said is wolfy nor a reason to comfortably call him not a wolf. Slightly above null.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#380)
    ##Vote Limestone tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#381)
    How do you get a town read on duk out of what you just stated


    Yet another off from Shad. What I said was that i thought what Duk3star said was accurate and I had him slightly above null. Shad's response that I had a townread on him is a direct misquote since i just said he was a nullread that I thought favorably of.

    So let's refine his point and say his misinterpreted the strength of my read on Duk3. "How do you get a positive leaning read on duk out of what you just stated"

    When is this ever not answered with 'because that's how I feel about his alignment and because what he's said about the game seemed accurate to me.'? Doesn't really seem like a belivable way to look at my post and say it's a point against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#260)
    Not gonna lie I'm pretty sure you've been in bull$#@! mode since your first wall but I've seen no reason to think it's wolfy bull$#@! and not just Amrock amusing himself bull$#@!

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Amrock has given like several walls of talking about reads and how he thinks we should play so how is this interpreted as Amrock amusing himself? This post and the others I've talked about just leave me thinking Shad is talking about things that happened in the game without really thinking about them since the things he's been saying have been so odd to me.

    So at this point I'm like aboard with a Shad wolfread. He's not defending people who are under fire, he's making wolfreads on the people who are all easier pushes and haven't done much while taking no stance of trying to find town in the less apparently towny people, his posts make it seem like hes not actually thinking about the game and what's being said while he's talking about the game and what's being said which is typically wolfy, and he just didn't feel towny to me.

    But huh there's a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#394)
    100% villager
    Amph- Always villa
    Shad- Very very very likely villa
    Lamp, Michelle, WWS- Just think are town here.
    Ruri, Abu-> Town leaning, but would say are town a good >rand percent of the time


    Read only part of his wall at this point looking for his logic on me which I decided was fair enough though I don't get where he got the point about me caring more about being lynched as town over mafia XD

    But anyway I searched Amrock's wall using a hidden feature known as ctrl-f and didn't find much explanation to why he had Shad town. I tend to like to trust Amrock's judgement when he's this confident. Unfortunately there was nothing in the wall explaining the read on SHad so I turned to his iso.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#128)
    Shad-> Meh, I actually think his wolf game is improving lately. But still think his overall tone was villagery and also thought his read on me right now was fairly villagery too. I think if he's a wolf he might be more cautious in how he reads me. Not entirely sure, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#250)
    I thought your previous wolfgame you were able to emulate your villagery tone fairly well, but I did think you did fall short in a few key areas, particularly in your reactions and, well, substance. This game is a clear difference to me, though, (from your wolf game), and I feel confident in saying that I think you've fairly clearly shattered your wolf ceiling at this point. Yes, even this early on day 1. (Your stuff with Abu/talk about me kinda cemented it with me)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#262)
    It hasn't been bull$#@!, so I don't know what you've thought that in the slightest. I quite literally did almost the exact same thing in the most recent 12/12 game with Limestone- Poe, finding villagers, doing meta building, solving the game through PoE on day 1-, except mow I have 5 days so I can take the luxury of explaining my thoughts and going through my thought process so people aren't like
    "why does this fool have like 8 townreads so quickly" and more like "oh, ok, I see what he's doing."


    So I guess the main points here are Shad's read on Amrock and Shad's read on Abu being towny yeah? My first reaction to the point abou Shad wouldn't read Amrock a certain way as wolf was that wolves will read people any way if they're just looking for a way to talk about the game.

    So next point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#164)
    Oh my god he said it again

    If this is a functional abu scum tell I'm going to looooooool into oblivion
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#169)
    Nope 100% lock it in Abu only calls his $#@!post shot/vote targets fools when he is a wolf.

    Speaking of which, I forgot to say pineapple in my opening post eeeeeeeee
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#364)
    These people are fine for now;
    Ampharos
    Amrock
    Duskfall
    Michelle
    Ruri
    WaywardSon

    These people exist:
    AbuHumaid
    Lamphouse

    These people don't exist:
    duk3star
    klaot
    Limestone
    Manasi

    I can't read RP or Manti at this stage. Mikan slightly underwhelming I guess but if this was a mash we're still in the first hour of game play


    At first I really didn't see it. Shad hardly talks about Abu and his read really isn't in depth or anything. He even votes Manasi instead while saying this.

    That said I saw it a little more when catching up. Felt like Mikan and Shad mindmelding about seeing wolf behavior and Shad believing the meta thing might be a real thing.

    So yeah dunno wasn't convinced immediately. Then I caught up and thought some of Shad's posts seemed more villagery in real time and think Shad felt different than my experiences with wolf Shad so I guess I'm putting this on the back burner for now but this is my thought process mostly before catching up XD
    If limestone was wolf I don't think he would try lynch shad tbh, there's far easily places to lynch and idt limestone would pick an unecessary fight like this if he's wolf.

    Wait I'm skimming too much I'm so confused @Limestone explain your shad read for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall (#1657)
    Andrew is town, manti is town, limestone is town, amy is town
    Pretty sure thats everything on you.

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    michelle being afk is in line with the wolf game I read(and the wolf chat)

    she was pretty frozen and commented on it in wolf chat a bunch. Even pretended to be asleep or afk, and said she was going to pretend in wolfchat. madness#1 I think.

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    Wowee much hype Limestone's Avatar
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    shruged it off as whatever

    don't think he read my wall fully as either alignment. Probably just said the idea he had in his head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2136)
    michelle being afk is in line with the wolf game I read(and the wolf chat)

    she was pretty frozen and commented on it in wolf chat a bunch. Even pretended to be asleep or afk, and said she was going to pretend in wolfchat. madness#1 I think.
    seems fair

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2130)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2126)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2120)
    I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.
    I assume this describes Lamp? Tell me about that.
    he told me he holds the record for most lynched player ever on pog. I believe Soah also brought it up in madness #2
    So on his own merits, I scumread Lamp. And he's not really doing much and lynching him would either net a wolf or kill the "Lamp+Jack" theory. Hell he's damn near aiming for a policy lynch by responding to your request to try different tactics with a song that's like "you're not the boss of me."

    But nobody seems to townread this guy and you're telling me he either rands wolf an uncanny amount and sucks at it or he lives on mislynch lane. This looks like the most predictable mislynch of all time.

    How much do you believe he's making up stuff about your meta? If you tell me you're damn sure, I'll go along with it in spite of the warning bells because I get that sometimes, you just lock into a wolf. I've done it in 5 games this year and was only able to lynch the wolf on the first day in one of them so I'm more sympathetic to that than I am to a potential town Lamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2137)
    shruged it off as whatever

    don't think he read my wall fully as either alignment. Probably just said the idea he had in his head.
    you arn't concerned with how he got a village read on you?

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    Wowee much hype Limestone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2140)
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2137)
    shruged it off as whatever

    don't think he read my wall fully as either alignment. Probably just said the idea he had in his head.
    you arn't concerned with how he got a village read on you?
    I find other things more salient toward how I'm reading him.

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    Abu pushing Jack+Lamp while we're tied and I'm town could make him wolf with Lamp (setting up the Jack mislynch if Lamp goes or setting up the Lamp no lynch if Jack goes) or he knows both players are town and just wants the wagons to stay as is.

    I don't see any town viewpoint behind that stance.

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    You guys like bourbon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2139)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2130)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2126)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2120)
    I dont have the record for most lynched player ever, so maybe adapt you play for the benefit of which ever team rands you.
    I assume this describes Lamp? Tell me about that.
    he told me he holds the record for most lynched player ever on pog. I believe Soah also brought it up in madness #2
    So on his own merits, I scumread Lamp. And he's not really doing much and lynching him would either net a wolf or kill the "Lamp+Jack" theory. Hell he's damn near aiming for a policy lynch by responding to your request to try different tactics with a song that's like "you're not the boss of me."

    But nobody seems to townread this guy and you're telling me he either rands wolf an uncanny amount and sucks at it or he lives on mislynch lane. This looks like the most predictable mislynch of all time.

    How much do you believe he's making up stuff about your meta? If you tell me you're damn sure, I'll go along with it in spite of the warning bells because I get that sometimes, you just lock into a wolf. I've done it in 5 games this year and was only able to lynch the wolf on the first day in one of them so I'm more sympathetic to that than I am to a potential town Lamp.

    First off I want you to vote your best candidate. I hate when people sheep me. If you find my argument compelling that is fine but vote because you decided it is the best vote given the gamestate.

    As far as my thoughts on his read of me and lying:
    It is possible HE BELIEVES he can read me as well as he says does. He generally has a bad self-evaluation process. The things I think he lied about in order of least important to most:

    1) My rank in SC2. It is a minor thing but it was 100% a lie he never checked. We used to play SC2 back in beta and right after release. I have always been diamond rank(he even went to spectate a tournament I qualified/played in during beta. Day9 casted it, I got crushed) We recently played a few games together because I played the campaigns and we just sorta played. I went 4-1 first day(in semi close game) and he came back day 2 and CRUSHED me 3-0. I was unranked those days(hadnt played ladder since season 1 of Sc2 in wings of liberty), and went and got diamond rank the next day. I never checked and made it up. It might be a NAI lie, but its weird. He also lied about beating me in games we played as a wolf in either traitors #1 or madness #2 AND lied about me hating LOTR as a wolf.

    2) Remembering my wolf meta from POG. He stated he remembers my wolf games from pog like 8 or 9 years ago. I don't even remember wolfing a single game. I was suspicious of this the more I thought about his read of me over the weekend. I asked him when he read them and how many. 2 games years ago. It is plausible but I doubt it.

    3) My actual meta from pog 8 years ago. He said I made arguments that cant hold water and was pedantic as a wolf. I am ALWAYS pedantic, and more specifically I have been pedantic this game, and even more specifically the posts he used to call me lock town this game were pedantic. Also I don't think anyone thinks I have trouble making arguments as any alignment that can hold water. It is made up and made up in a fashion that reminds me of what he did in the past two games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2142)
    Abu pushing Jack+Lamp while we're tied and I'm town could make him wolf with Lamp (setting up the Jack mislynch if Lamp goes or setting up the Lamp no lynch if Jack goes) or he knows both players are town and just wants the wagons to stay as is.

    I don't see any town viewpoint behind that stance.
    I think both of those slots are wolfy.

    I got lamp as wolf read and you as wolf lean.

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    If I vote Lamp, it's gonna be because of the old SC2 Diamond Rank Tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2145)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2142)
    Abu pushing Jack+Lamp while we're tied and I'm town could make him wolf with Lamp (setting up the Jack mislynch if Lamp goes or setting up the Lamp no lynch if Jack goes) or he knows both players are town and just wants the wagons to stay as is.

    I don't see any town viewpoint behind that stance.
    I think both of those slots are wolfy.

    I got lamp as wolf read and you as wolf lean.
    Come ooooooooon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2146)
    If I vote Lamp, it's gonna be because of the old SC2 Diamond Rank Tell.
    the real reason is that he said I was a lock villager for my super pedantic posts, then said my wolf meta is being pedantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2147)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2145)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2142)
    Abu pushing Jack+Lamp while we're tied and I'm town could make him wolf with Lamp (setting up the Jack mislynch if Lamp goes or setting up the Lamp no lynch if Jack goes) or he knows both players are town and just wants the wagons to stay as is.

    I don't see any town viewpoint behind that stance.
    I think both of those slots are wolfy.

    I got lamp as wolf read and you as wolf lean.
    Come ooooooooon.
    you do you.

    I am like halfway done with my isos/readlists.

  50. Bookmark ISO #2150
    Soul Reader Jackofhearts2005's Avatar
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    Apr 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#2148)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005 (#2146)
    If I vote Lamp, it's gonna be because of the old SC2 Diamond Rank Tell.
    the real reason is that he said I was a lock villager for my super pedantic posts, then said my wolf meta is being pedantic
    Yeah, but that doesn't have a funny name. It's a lot more convincing than him maybe lying about some $#@! you don't really remember from 10 years ago.

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The Command Based Robot will each night perform two actions: They will decide which of several actions available to them that they wish to use that night, and they will additionally select a player that gets the choice of who the action should be used on that night. The Command Based Robot may not self-target.