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Thread: Season 6, Wildcard Game 1: Dreamverse [The Mafia Championship] Night 6
Night 6 

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    Thread Analyst grapefruit21's Avatar
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    Alright more thorough list time.

    I'm town. Texas, Hater, Evenstar are all aggressive enough, flexible enough and hunty enough I'm never touching them today. Hater is the most confident read of the bunch for me but all 3 are decidedly pro town at this point.

    Chox is super in his town meta, and doing incredibly naturally townie things like starting an ISO with the intent to push and coming out the other end with a town read.

    Hyena is basically a lighter posting member of the first group. Less agressive but really insightful. 1209 in particular is really good stuff. Telleo is approaching this level but is not there yet. More in a not touching today but not in the town circle sort of range.

    IBA, Adrian, and Vanity round out my not touching toDay pool. IBA feels like a townie with a very different approach to me. I think I may have judged too harshly based on the entrance gambit. Pretty locked into a town read unsure of how much I trust opinions yet (CCC qualifier ISO to come). Adrian had a good entrance and has largely been fine. Just fine. There are some red flags by association (looks like a potential 112 buddy) but nothing that makes me want to change my read now. This slot more than any other I want more from. I feel like if Adrian is town they should be able to shine. Vanity is town and going through a minor version of my progression on IBA. I definitely want to hear everything they think I'm just not inclined to trust it at this stage but if CCC is scum then I'm willing to admit I'm an idiot.

    Macdougall and FTF are probably going to get a pass based on activity and I'm not in love with that but I get it. I think Mac has some severe red flags and FTF is trending better after my initial scum read. I don't have a grasp on FTF right now I'm just kind of tilted by their presence. Which is definitely a me problem. Going to try to get a better read on them but I really don't have the time or energy for a full ISO so I'll try to think of something else. As for MacKeldeon I loved their initial catch up but have been pinged in a major way by later posts. Definitely someone on my radar in a big way and one of my preferred targets for today. They have been pinging me since that bonkers interaction we had over their shade on Adrian.

    I have no read firm on any of of CCC, Funnier, Football, or nutella. I will try to fix that.

    Then I have 112. Who I definitely have a strong scum read on that has not abated in the slightest.

    That equals roughly:
    Grape
    Chox, Hater, Vanity, IBA
    Hyena, Texas, Evenstar
    Telleo
    FTF
    Adrian
    Funnier, CCC, Football, Nutella

    Macdougall
    112

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    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#1045)
    ##Vote CCC_037
    ...would you perhaps like to provide a reason for this vote, too?

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    Thread Analyst funnier6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#1251)
    Alright more thorough list time.

    I'm town. Texas, Hater, Evenstar are all aggressive enough, flexible enough and hunty enough I'm never touching them today. Hater is the most confident read of the bunch for me but all 3 are decidedly pro town at this point.

    Chox is super in his town meta, and doing incredibly naturally townie things like starting an ISO with the intent to push and coming out the other end with a town read.

    Hyena is basically a lighter posting member of the first group. Less agressive but really insightful. 1209 in particular is really good stuff. Telleo is approaching this level but is not there yet. More in a not touching today but not in the town circle sort of range.

    IBA, Adrian, and Vanity round out my not touching toDay pool. IBA feels like a townie with a very different approach to me. I think I may have judged too harshly based on the entrance gambit. Pretty locked into a town read unsure of how much I trust opinions yet (CCC qualifier ISO to come). Adrian had a good entrance and has largely been fine. Just fine. There are some red flags by association (looks like a potential 112 buddy) but nothing that makes me want to change my read now. This slot more than any other I want more from. I feel like if Adrian is town they should be able to shine. Vanity is town and going through a minor version of my progression on IBA. I definitely want to hear everything they think I'm just not inclined to trust it at this stage but if CCC is scum then I'm willing to admit I'm an idiot.

    Macdougall and FTF are probably going to get a pass based on activity and I'm not in love with that but I get it. I think Mac has some severe red flags and FTF is trending better after my initial scum read. I don't have a grasp on FTF right now I'm just kind of tilted by their presence. Which is definitely a me problem. Going to try to get a better read on them but I really don't have the time or energy for a full ISO so I'll try to think of something else. As for MacKeldeon I loved their initial catch up but have been pinged in a major way by later posts. Definitely someone on my radar in a big way and one of my preferred targets for today. They have been pinging me since that bonkers interaction we had over their shade on Adrian.

    I have no read firm on any of of CCC, Funnier, Football, or nutella. I will try to fix that.

    Then I have 112. Who I definitely have a strong scum read on that has not abated in the slightest.

    That equals roughly:
    Grape
    Chox, Hater, Vanity, IBA
    Hyena, Texas, Evenstar
    Telleo
    FTF
    Adrian
    Funnier, CCC, Football, Nutella

    Macdougall
    112
    Can you explain the 112 scum read? I keep noticing people bring that up but I haven't been able to pinpoint where it came from in the first place.

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    CCC g9 iso notes
    -entrance is identical
    -I feel like the g9 group was much more friendly with CCC upon entrance than any of us, which might have affected their earlier postings in this game
    -slow start overall from them
    -their first big post gives me the impression that they reward activity above all else, hence their dispute with vanity
    -more likely to be pocketed by high posters
    -Defense of themselves seems similar

    CCC wc1 iso notes
    -felt good when talking to them, looked like they were trying to produce reads immediately when i asked, wasn't afraid to further discussion about associatives
    -the mechanical fixation is offputting. WOuldn't put stock into this though because mechanical discussion was why this setup was chosen. Thanks Thingyman. worth noting to their argument about d1 massclaim fundamentally comes down to them just not being afraid of risks i outlined. might give some sort of indicator to their mindset.
    -Their argument with vanity feels consistent. no bad vibes
    -very hesitant to lock them town bc of their responses to other people. they backpedal vs choxorn and it's a bad look

    So yeah I think the fight got blown out of proportion and it comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding

    I think CCC is showing some key similarities from their qual game but the environment is different enough for me to think that an apples to apples comparison is difficult to make

    happy enough leaving them in v-

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    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1048)
    ISO of CCC in his qualifier game where he was town, and it looks nothing at all like his ISO in this thread. In the qualifier he is making alignment reads from the start and is critical of the idea that there's not enough info d1 to make educated guesses about alignment. Here he obsesses about mechanics and says that he isn't good at alignment reads and his strength is mechanical speculation, which he never does here. Even visually they don't look the same- he's posting a lot fewer pony gifs and his posts are much shorter here, nor does he have any broken up or multipart posts in this game.

    ##Vote CCC_037


    Yeah, this game is proving way harder to keep up with. But if you'll look a little closer, you'll notice that most of my D1 reads in the qualifier are based on a purely mechanical townread on Pooch. My love of mechanical reads isn't new; it's just that in the qualifier, I had a decent mechanical read to base things on.

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    Wants It More FTFlush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1247)
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#1242)
    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1229)
    I mean I didn't take it personally, it wasn't meant as a criticism. Like... I don't know maybe I'm a bit arbitrary about this but it felt more like "this is a bad gameplay decision" as an attitude which I take less personally.

    Anyway I have tried to keep up with the case on 112 but I wouldn't mind you summarizing yours tbh, or linking if you have already done so in one post elsewhere.
    ALright so the main points are

    -I think she was really out of flow early on and it came across as awkward wolf
    -Her fixation on joke posts was unnatural and felt like her trying to add to the discussion since she didn't have any reads
    -She has some jaw dropping weird one liners littered through her ISO
    - She doesn't seem all that confident
    If you had to link one of her posts to illustrate each of these different points, which ones would you pick?

    (You can use the same post twice if you want.)
    P#99
    P#109
    P#129
    P#136
    P#311

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    Thread Analyst Telleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#1117)
    I’m like a million miles away from being caught up but I need to write down where I’m at

    Before ISO and meta:

    Whoever said vanity was deranged town was right.

    I’m concerned that someone said CCC is way different than their qualifier and I’ll be looking into that asap.

    Telleo is really towny to me and to many but I haven’t looked into him yet. I haven’t looked into anybody actually other than ftf and vanity and I haven’t fully finished with them! I’m going to be spending a lot of time doing research cause I can’t go on with this trying to keep up with thread but unable to give reads I feel good about

    IBA is probably town just because idk why mafia would take such pains to step on so many toes.

    I don’t feel good about Nutella and football except the obvious problem that last I checked Nutella was voting football. More confident on football, I remember reading game 1 and finding him towny immediately and I’m just not seeing it here.

    Be sure and remind me of earlier questions I’ve missed cause I’m sure I’ve missed twenty.

    @Adrian do you trust me? Not like in an ordinary sense but if I tell you someone is town because I know them better than you will you at least consider it?
    That IBA read is p bad.

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    Thread Analyst Telleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#1151)
    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#980)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#838)
    I have two hours free time right now. Going to use it to catch up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar (#505)
    Stop with this $#@!. Seriously. This is meaningless fluffposting and it's clogging up the thread.

    In fact,

    ##Vote FTFlush

    Cut this $#@! out or I will lynch you. You are being actively antitown, and if you try to call this 'playstyle' I will [do an unpleasant thing to you]. 'Deliberately filling the thread with meaningless fluffposts' is a scum tactic if ever I saw one, and you've proven that you can produce actual damn content when called upon. Engage your damn brain. If I can't vote someone without three paragraphs of reasoning, you sure as hell don't get to skate by on this $#@!.
    Don't like this reasoning. It feels like a pretty weak and contrived reason to be voting for someone. Yes, people shouldn't be clogging up the threse but both town and scum $#@!post. It really depends more on the individual player.
    ...did you think she was calling him scum?

    Like, your whole response is predicated on "Town can do this stuff too!" but Evenstar's not voting here because she thinks he's scum, she's voteing because she thinks FTF's behavior is anti-town. Did you even read her objection?
    I did read her objection. I realize she called it anti-town, not scummy. I still stand by what I said at the time. That said, as of now, I feel better about evenstar.
    So... you realize that she said "this is anti-town and I will policy lynch you for it." But you also stand by calling it a "weak and contrived reason to vote." Give me more deets please.

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    Soul Reader Macdougall's Avatar
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    There are too many leader types here. I am going to play a backseat role for now. I'm sure someone/s will have issues with it.

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    Thread Analyst grapefruit21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1202)
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit21 (#1190)
    @112 because not snipping quotes makes the thread hard to read and unmanageable. Anyway you must have missed my asking you to do the analysis in 1146 which said: "Explain how it's relevant then. Go into detail on why post count is relevant to the solving the wagon. Analyzing wagons is all well and good so tell me what it means that 3 of the 4 people voting you are low posting but wordy."

    I asked you why post count is relevant but also to then do the analysis in the same post. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
    All I'm trying to say about it is that it's more likely for a wagon to be bad when there are relatively lower posters on it than its counter. It's a remark on probability and is a type of thing that absolutely should be considered as evidence.
    Why is that a probability thing? I've never seen a satisfactory correlation between posts and scum. I think it's true for the very new players but there was a research paper done with Mafia Scum's games as a data set and if I'm remembering correctly they found that scum tend to be wordier than town. I don't think there was a strong correlation between post count and alignment. I see absolutes like this thrown around a lot and I want you to explain why you believe it. Do you have evidence? Is it a gut thing?

    I think you're working from a conclusion here and reading my posts under the assumption that I'm scum.

    I think you're very likely town and want to work with you, but it feels that you're shutting me off. I've been playing this game for 8+ years and don't entirely appreciate it when people assume I haven't developed an intuition for it.

    Please try to understand that I'm evaluating my own wagon under the pressure of being mislynched in what is the most important game of mafia I've ever played. It is hard. I try to be impartial and logical in how I go about things, but there are gut things and stuff that's hard to put into words exactly, particularly when you're reading posts attacking you.

    You said it's cliche for me to say there has to be a wolf on the wagon and that I'm working from the unique perspective of knowing I'm town, but that's honestly where my mind is at.

    You asked about my Evenstar read. I made a big post responding to them and it's where most of my read is grounded. I'm going to take a break because I need it but will link and tag you with it when I'm back. I'm still perfectly happy to lynch them.

    be back soon
    Anyway on this part I'm actually worrying about that. I am to some degree in a tunnel here and you've done some things that make me think you're town here. But they just are outweighed by the scummy things to me.

    Like I get that you're trying to evaluate your wagon but when your evaluation is "It has low posters so it's probably scummy" you're not inspiring confidence. The post you're referring (943) to is less an evenstar read and more a reply to evenstar's case on you. You don't really even take a stance on Evenstar in that post as far as I can tell. Closest thing to a poke is you highlighting the contradiction on confidence.

    @funnier6 read my ISO it's short and has all my reads in them. This is the third time you've asked me to explain things I've already talked about in detail.

    @FTFlush on CCC makes me feel better about both of them. Going to try to dive into that myself shortly.

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    Wants It More FTFlush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1245)
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#1243)
    and we're all caught up

    vanity you're talking a lot about your definition of LHF
    your definition is a perfectly fine entry level point to the term but I think more modernly it's about who can be easily pushed
    Have you acknowledged that at all while considering CCC's questions?
    i understand that. but the fact that ccc doubled down on their own interpretation of what i said is what set me off. also fmpov their initial reasoning for reading me wolf was absolutely terrible and i still don't know how i can interpret it as anything other than just a made up read to push a villager.

    but i don't think i'm going to reconsider at this point because even disregarding his push on me being why i started going off on him, i feel like i'm being townread by more people and i'm winning the fight. in fact, i will this fight with everything within my power that is within the rules of mu. plus there's legitimate evidence that people have brought up that implicates ccc. but i'm also too deep in the tunnel at this point so if i am wrong, i'll just accept the d2 lynch and that i'm a clown.

    if you have reservations with my logic, then i'd love to hear it.
    Alright so from my understanding

    -You've put a lot of emphasis on letting people know that your reads aren't exactly sort by postcount
    -CCC jumps on you for what they perceive as a pre-emptive defense, and you respond by explaining that the defense isn't necessarily pre-emptive because the thing you were defending against was implied
    -CCC follows up by saying that this is still some easy pushes from you

    from here on it kinda flies off the rails so I'll cut it short
    I think you're missing the principle conflict
    CCC, and by extension footballfocus think that you're reads seem too easy to make
    and you've become upset at the insinuation of it being about postcounts
    i feel like ccc's "Doubling down" was them explaining that they shared a similar line of thought to ff

    The fastest way around this is just to reiterate your reads on ff and nutella
    or at least what you felt at the time of the discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#1261)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1245)
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#1243)
    and we're all caught up

    vanity you're talking a lot about your definition of LHF
    your definition is a perfectly fine entry level point to the term but I think more modernly it's about who can be easily pushed
    Have you acknowledged that at all while considering CCC's questions?
    i understand that. but the fact that ccc doubled down on their own interpretation of what i said is what set me off. also fmpov their initial reasoning for reading me wolf was absolutely terrible and i still don't know how i can interpret it as anything other than just a made up read to push a villager.

    but i don't think i'm going to reconsider at this point because even disregarding his push on me being why i started going off on him, i feel like i'm being townread by more people and i'm winning the fight. in fact, i will this fight with everything within my power that is within the rules of mu. plus there's legitimate evidence that people have brought up that implicates ccc. but i'm also too deep in the tunnel at this point so if i am wrong, i'll just accept the d2 lynch and that i'm a clown.

    if you have reservations with my logic, then i'd love to hear it.
    Alright so from my understanding

    -You've put a lot of emphasis on letting people know that your reads aren't exactly sort by postcount
    -CCC jumps on you for what they perceive as a pre-emptive defense, and you respond by explaining that the defense isn't necessarily pre-emptive because the thing you were defending against was implied
    -CCC follows up by saying that this is still some easy pushes from you

    from here on it kinda flies off the rails so I'll cut it short
    I think you're missing the principle conflict
    CCC, and by extension footballfocus think that you're reads seem too easy to make
    and you've become upset at the insinuation of it being about postcounts
    i feel like ccc's "Doubling down" was them explaining that they shared a similar line of thought to ff

    The fastest way around this is just to reiterate your reads on ff and nutella
    or at least what you felt at the time of the discussion

    if anyone mentioned feels misrepresented feel free to explain

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    Wants It More FTFlush's Avatar
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    Anyway
    I haven't eaten in hours and I'm mentally taxed
    in the morning I'll go through Telleo vs IBA
    hopefully I can stretch my posts out until eod time

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    Thread Analyst funnier6's Avatar
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    I keep glancing at an ISO for something and seeing some question I totally missed twenty years ago this morning because trying to stay current and failing. Bout to pass out so quick reads list once more.

    T:
    Adrian (explainable)
    ES (explainable)
    Vanity (pretty explainable)
    Chox (complex kind of explainable)
    Telleo (gut atm)
    IBA (gut atm)

    N:
    FTF (he's made a lot of good contributions lately instead of just fluff but I haven't had a chance to look hard at it yet)
    Grape (explainable)
    112 (complicated)
    Football
    Hater
    MacD (I had a read on him but I've completely forgotten the entire basis)

    M:
    Nutella (Pinged, will look into soon)
    Texas (Pinged, will look into soon)
    CCC (explainable)

    If everyone would take the night off and let my poor brain have a chance to think on what is already been posted that would be awesome

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    Thread Analyst funnier6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#1257)
    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#1117)
    I’m like a million miles away from being caught up but I need to write down where I’m at

    Before ISO and meta:

    Whoever said vanity was deranged town was right.

    I’m concerned that someone said CCC is way different than their qualifier and I’ll be looking into that asap.

    Telleo is really towny to me and to many but I haven’t looked into him yet. I haven’t looked into anybody actually other than ftf and vanity and I haven’t fully finished with them! I’m going to be spending a lot of time doing research cause I can’t go on with this trying to keep up with thread but unable to give reads I feel good about

    IBA is probably town just because idk why mafia would take such pains to step on so many toes.

    I don’t feel good about Nutella and football except the obvious problem that last I checked Nutella was voting football. More confident on football, I remember reading game 1 and finding him towny immediately and I’m just not seeing it here.

    Be sure and remind me of earlier questions I’ve missed cause I’m sure I’ve missed twenty.

    @Adrian do you trust me? Not like in an ordinary sense but if I tell you someone is town because I know them better than you will you at least consider it?
    That IBA read is p bad.
    Is there a purpose in informing me it is bad without trying whatsoever to convince me otherwise

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    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Cloverleaf (#1075)
    telleo vs IBA is probably tvs, one of them would be intelligent enough as town to stop $#@!ting up the thread with quote walls at some point
    This whole interaction feels towny on Telleo's side and scummy on IBA's side to me. I find it easier to follow Telleo's reasoning, and IBA's responses seem to mostly consist of trying to laugh off Telleo's points.

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    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1077)
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Cloverleaf (#1072)
    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1069)
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Cloverleaf (#1068)
    If you're actually town you really need to start being more cooperative, being standoffish is anti-town
    How the $#@! have I been anything but cooperative?
    It took you how many posts to present the case I asked for? Now you're refusing grapefruit the same. I appreciate that you're probably frustrated but there's a line where it goes to belligerent and you're toeing it.
    grapefruit's language was belligerent and I'm tired of being polite to people that don't return the favor. Demanding that I explain $#@! I've already explained and not reference my previous posts explaining this and doing so while being curt and and imperious is just rude. I'm not grapefruit's monkey, I don't have to dance for him. If he wants me to spend my time on him he should at least bother to phrase it as a request instead of a demand.
    "Rephrase this as a polite request and I'll think about it." is the exact opposite of being cooperative. Which is why it seems odd that when that statement is called out as being uncooperative, you don't seem to see that...

  18. Bookmark ISO #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#1193)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#908)
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#809)
    I'm out of the thread for a bit, just wanted to say that my strength in this game is self-solving and feel the best way for other townies to use me well is to follow my lists.

    I think funnier said something earlier about high egos here and I'm kind of agreeing lol. I think we have the best chance of winning if instead of thinking we know everything, we that everyone has different strengths in the game and try to take the good aspects from others' posts without dismissing them because we're the best.

    There's a lot of fighting, which means there's lots of infighting, and I'm not sure it's good practice. Obviously we need to charge scum, but there has to be room for more productive and neutral discussion imo because town on town anger can be quite harmful.
    Right. Now you're making me doubt my vote with this post. I think that in a set-up like this, and with most of us having never played without each other before, we should be focusing on finding other villagers and trying to create a PoE that gets wolves nervous as the walls start to close in on them. My ride or die townread right now is grapefruit. I think I have a correct town read there.
    Can you make a case for Graoefruit as Towny?
    Grapefruit engaged with me back-and-forth over reads we disagreed on in a way that I found townie. He simply presented his case with posts linked as evidence, and I did not detect an agenda from it. I also like the fluidity of his reads. Specifically, he had me as a town read but began to have some doubts about how I was defending IBA in response to Evenstar and saw a potential buddy interaction there. He has the lack of agenda and quick response time to new information that I expect from town.

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    Thread Analyst IBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#1266)
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Cloverleaf (#1075)
    telleo vs IBA is probably tvs, one of them would be intelligent enough as town to stop $#@!ting up the thread with quote walls at some point
    This whole interaction feels towny on Telleo's side and scummy on IBA's side to me. I find it easier to follow Telleo's reasoning, and IBA's responses seem to mostly consist of trying to laugh off Telleo's points.
    Man I know I am biased but this is some horse$#@!, I went into meltdown mode and you describe that as "laughing off Telleo's points"?

  20. Bookmark ISO #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#1214)
    I've had these sitting in my quotes for all day so might as well get through em
    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#841)
    I am not a fan also of how @funnier6 acted like he had some strong read on FTF from ISO of his previous game but has pretty much failed to substantiate that after being offered multiple chances to do so
    Well, I did. I posted about it, dicussed it with you some, then I talked to ftf and looked at his scum game and was promptly talked out of it. I'm not really sure what you were expecting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#908)
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#809)
    I'm out of the thread for a bit, just wanted to say that my strength in this game is self-solving and feel the best way for other townies to use me well is to follow my lists.

    I think funnier said something earlier about high egos here and I'm kind of agreeing lol. I think we have the best chance of winning if instead of thinking we know everything, we that everyone has different strengths in the game and try to take the good aspects from others' posts without dismissing them because we're the best.

    There's a lot of fighting, which means there's lots of infighting, and I'm not sure it's good practice. Obviously we need to charge scum, but there has to be room for more productive and neutral discussion imo because town on town anger can be quite harmful.
    Right. Now you're making me doubt my vote with this post. I think that in a set-up like this, and with most of us having never played without each other before, we should be focusing on finding other villagers and trying to create a PoE that gets wolves nervous as the walls start to close in on them. My ride or die townread right now is grapefruit. I think I have a correct town read there.
    I think grapefruit is a very scary person to ride or die the game on, you know I dont say this lightly.
    Why do you say that?

  21. Bookmark ISO #1271
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Season 6, Wildcard Game 1: Dreamverse [The Mafia Championship] Day 1 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 CCC_037 Macdougall (147), IBA (126), funnier6 (77), vanity. (117)
    3 112 Evenstar (23), grapefruit21 (34), Texas Cloverleaf (64)
    3 nutella Adrian (78), FTFlush (145), Choxorn (39)
    2 IBA HATER (17), Telleo (70)
    1 vanity. CCC_037 (62)
    1 footballFOCUS nutella (45)
    3 Not voting footballFOCUS (29), Hyena (54), 112 (117)

    View Vote History

    Day 1 ends at 10:00 PM EDT on Wednesday, August 14th, 2019. There are 1565834460000 remaining.

    Requested by 112 at 0 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes, 4 seconds remaining.

  22. Bookmark ISO #1272
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    will respond to tags a bit later, wanted to say that I'm never participating in this tournament again. It's bad for my health

  23. Bookmark ISO #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#1258)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#1151)
    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#980)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#838)
    I have two hours free time right now. Going to use it to catch up.



    Don't like this reasoning. It feels like a pretty weak and contrived reason to be voting for someone. Yes, people shouldn't be clogging up the threse but both town and scum $#@!post. It really depends more on the individual player.
    ...did you think she was calling him scum?

    Like, your whole response is predicated on "Town can do this stuff too!" but Evenstar's not voting here because she thinks he's scum, she's voteing because she thinks FTF's behavior is anti-town. Did you even read her objection?
    I did read her objection. I realize she called it anti-town, not scummy. I still stand by what I said at the time. That said, as of now, I feel better about evenstar.
    So... you realize that she said "this is anti-town and I will policy lynch you for it." But you also stand by calling it a "weak and contrived reason to vote." Give me more deets please.
    Both town and scum are going to make scummy posts this game. But we need to be able to separate scummy villagers from actual scum. An example I gave earlier is that Football's post about wanting to vote Choxorn came off as scummy to me but I also think it's not a play a wolf with 24/7 chat makes.

  24. Bookmark ISO #1274
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBA (#1219)
    Wait was that nutella or grapefruit I was talking to.

    Some kind of breakfast thing anyway
    God this is funny

  25. Bookmark ISO #1275
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#1107)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#850)
    Can you detail your IBA read?
    P#296
    worth noting I'd have him higher but I talked extensively about how wolves might view choxorn as the easy push
    IBA has been unrelenting
    ...so it's basically tone and him matching your homesite's meta for Towny posts?

    Okay, I can see how that can give you a slightly Townish read on him; but I'm not seeing any good reason in there for me to consider him Towny.

  26. Bookmark ISO #1276
    Thread Analyst grapefruit21's Avatar
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    How is it possible that Funnier has more than twice my posts? I know I'm biased towards my own importance but I feel like I've had thrice the impact he's had (which probably translates to around equal impacts).

    I tried to ISO CCC's game 9 at work but I can't get away with that many MLP images on my screen at once at work. Large blocks of forum text yes, that many images no. I'll try to get back to it tonight. But I find myself really believing FTF's analysis of it without verifying for myself.

  27. Bookmark ISO #1277
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    ##Vote footballFOCUS

    I ride with nute.

  28. Bookmark ISO #1278
    @funnier6, I agree that CCC's posting is different here than in Game 9 but feel more confident in calling them scummy for their opening than meta reads. Can you talk to me about his content in this game? Re: Nutella and Texas. Saw you had them as mafia leans, so I wanted to talk to you about them. I think nutella's most egregious offense is voting football. Seemed very opportunistic. I still think Texas is town despite them being wrong on me. Too tired to look it up now but there was a three paragraph post I quoted in my ISO that looked so pure. I'm not getting an agenda from them pushing me like I am getting from MacDougall.

  29. Bookmark ISO #1279
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    @funnier6 - It might just be a product of playing with the same people all the time, but on my home site i rarely last long as scum. I also rarely rand wolf so don't get much practice. My homies tend to see night and day contrasts between my wolf and town games- I don't post nearly as much when wolfing, don't switch my votes as much, tonally I'm not myself. Maybe I'm hard on myself but my scum game is just ugly imo

  30. Bookmark ISO #1280
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1277)
    ##Vote footballFOCUS

    I ride with nute.
    Why? This post confuses me. Why the vote and why ride with nutella?

  31. Bookmark ISO #1281
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    ^having trouble quoting that on ky phone @Adrian but we mindmelded on foot's entrance. People took issue with both of our earlier votes but I thought they were fair.

  32. Bookmark ISO #1282
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    Also, current wagons are going nowhere and ccc's picked up his game.

  33. Bookmark ISO #1283
    Ugh, don't want to start associative reads on Day 1, but I did notice looking through 112's ISO that they shy away from voting nutella. There was mention of not liking football among the low posters but without elaboration.

  34. Bookmark ISO #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1281)
    ^having trouble quoting that on ky phone @Adrian but we mindmelded on foot's entrance. People took issue with both of our earlier votes but I thought they were fair.
    Oh, yeah, and I remember calling both of you out for it. What do you think of the argument I've been making about football? Namely that a wolf with 24/7 chat would never so blatantly talk about wanting to vote a lead wagon.

  35. Bookmark ISO #1285
    I'll check back on replies in the morning. Zoning out. Have more time tomorrow so dropping a full reads list as well.

  36. Bookmark ISO #1286
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#1284)
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1281)
    ^having trouble quoting that on ky phone @Adrian but we mindmelded on foot's entrance. People took issue with both of our earlier votes but I thought they were fair.
    Oh, yeah, and I remember calling both of you out for it. What do you think of the argument I've been making about football? Namely that a wolf with 24/7 chat would never so blatantly talk about wanting to vote a lead wagon.
    Hard disagree because I see that type of play ALL the time on my home site. I play with a lot of people who like to push for TWTBW cred and players at this level are $#@!ing bold.

  37. Bookmark ISO #1287
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    @grapefruit21 - I'm going to reply to you when I'm at my computer, give me an hour to get home

  38. Bookmark ISO #1288
    Thread Analyst IBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#1273)
    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#1258)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#1151)
    Quote Originally Posted by Telleo (#980)
    ...did you think she was calling him scum?

    Like, your whole response is predicated on "Town can do this stuff too!" but Evenstar's not voting here because she thinks he's scum, she's voteing because she thinks FTF's behavior is anti-town. Did you even read her objection?
    I did read her objection. I realize she called it anti-town, not scummy. I still stand by what I said at the time. That said, as of now, I feel better about evenstar.
    So... you realize that she said "this is anti-town and I will policy lynch you for it." But you also stand by calling it a "weak and contrived reason to vote." Give me more deets please.
    Both town and scum are going to make scummy posts this game. But we need to be able to separate scummy villagers from actual scum. An example I gave earlier is that Football's post about wanting to vote Choxorn came off as scummy to me but I also think it's not a play a wolf with 24/7 chat makes.
    This is actually to me the most town-leaning post Adrian has made since the initial townclaim stuff because I don't think ScumAdrian is going to self-cred himself if he has a teammate that can do it for him.

  39. Bookmark ISO #1289
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1185)
    villagers:
    funnier
    macdougall
    iba

    maybe villagers:
    adrian
    evenstar
    hater
    texas
    112
    hyena

    special townsperson asylum:
    vanity

    woofing:
    ccc
    nutella
    telleo

    i don't feel great about calling nutella a wolf but their interactions with ccc are pretty damning if ccc is a wolf.
    If your read on Nutella is so dependant on me being a wolf then you reeeeeeeally shouldn't be voting Nutella; which, as of this post, you were.

    You're basically saying that there's a higher chance of me being a wolf than of nutella being a wolf, yet you're still voting nutella.

  40. Bookmark ISO #1290
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnier6 (#1250)
    Football is actually extremely similar to game 1. I'm not sure if it was just the game 1 environment that made him look super towny or if I just didn't get the town read vibes till later but there is very little difference in his manner, tone, thought processes, that I can tell from one game to the other. If anything the only thing I find different is that his formatting was better in game 1. It kind of freaks me that everyone from memory found him way less towny than game 1 but I think I'm okay throwing him in null until I actually go back and look at what he was talking about.
    I guess I should actually take a look, but I still think there may be something to my subjective perceived difference to my memory of him in that game and I won't completely dismiss it even if his style can be shown to be objectively similar. Gut reads/intuitions like that can be really powerful in my experience, and I really remember feeling so strongly sure he was town in that game whereas in this one he started pinging my scumdar left and right from the get go.

  41. Bookmark ISO #1291
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    @Evenstar your Mac take has my brain expanding. I could see him as scum here now that you got me thinking about it. Typically he gets fiercely set on a few reads and sticks to them, but he's pulled 180s on Adrian and on me in strange ways, and I think you might be onto something.

  42. Bookmark ISO #1292
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#1259)
    There are too many leader types here. I am going to play a backseat role for now. I'm sure someone/s will have issues with it.
    How about fighting types?

  43. Bookmark ISO #1293
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Cloverleaf (#1195)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#1191)


    Okay, on the one hand, I can see where you're coming from. On the other, I can also see nutella's vote as potentially Town; calling out Football for outright looking for an opportunity to jump on the biggest wagon.

    I don't think that what Football said was all that scummy - he just wanted to know the case for the top wagon - but I'm not sure that Nutella's vote is the slam dunk you're suggesting, either.
    That's the point, nutella's vote is supposed to look like it's calling out football because footballs post looks terrible and by jumping on it the way that he did in such an opportunistic fashion without even a justification Nutella outed his motivation - he wasn't looking to call him out, he was looking for an easy mislynch
    Or he thought it was so obviously scummy he didn't need to explain it. I dunno - I don't like the lack of explanation on the spot (but he's hardly the only person in thread giving naked votes). I see that as more NAI than something to base a strong read on.

  44. Bookmark ISO #1294
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATER (#1196)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#1193)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#908)
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#809)
    I'm out of the thread for a bit, just wanted to say that my strength in this game is self-solving and feel the best way for other townies to use me well is to follow my lists.

    I think funnier said something earlier about high egos here and I'm kind of agreeing lol. I think we have the best chance of winning if instead of thinking we know everything, we that everyone has different strengths in the game and try to take the good aspects from others' posts without dismissing them because we're the best.

    There's a lot of fighting, which means there's lots of infighting, and I'm not sure it's good practice. Obviously we need to charge scum, but there has to be room for more productive and neutral discussion imo because town on town anger can be quite harmful.
    Right. Now you're making me doubt my vote with this post. I think that in a set-up like this, and with most of us having never played without each other before, we should be focusing on finding other villagers and trying to create a PoE that gets wolves nervous as the walls start to close in on them. My ride or die townread right now is grapefruit. I think I have a correct town read there.
    Can you make a case for Graoefruit as Towny?
    Besides almost the entire body of everything they've said?
    A specific case. Give me the highlights.

  45. Bookmark ISO #1295
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    I am feeling better about grapefruit, especially due to the exchange with 112 re: low poster wagonomics -- 112's argument there was just complete garbage nonsense and imo it was pretty scummy how they/she(? I don't see a gender/pronoun marker) brought it up, like they were trying to discredit their voters who as grapefruit pointed out still had content-ful posts which of course matters more than sheer quantity. It almost felt like a last resort sort of defense in a way that felt out of place 24 hours before the deadline -- like, it's not yet the time to kick and scream "look at how evil everyone voting for me is" as if you're locked in as the lynch.

    Honestly, that compared with some of the earlier reasoning on 112 (points Evenstar has made I believe, maybe others) such as the proposed lynch dichotomy, and odd defensiveness about playing badly + the allegedly tongue-in-cheek remark about "benign" posts set me off... yeah.
    ##Vote 112

  46. Bookmark ISO #1296
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar (#1230)
    Mac ISO, at least up till the point at which I decided I needed to post this for the information of the thread:

    #123, 139: Nothingpost intro, NAI.

    #140: Votes Funnier for voting Choxorn, I like it. Getting the vote out early, proactive, info-fishing.

    #144 is just funny. NAI tho.

    #178, 192 are solvey. Feels town.

    I don't like that #194 is an unvote rather than a change of vote to FTF, but probably NAI.

    #199 is very interesting. "The first three posts reveal the most about a person's alignment" is an idea I haven't heard before. I might try this once I get through this ISO and my question backlog.

    #204 feels meh.

    #207 is interesting. Potentially tmi? Eh, I'm probably reading too much in.

    #214 feels very nice. Early defense of Vanity when FTF attacked her for that exact post. Goes a certain way to explain why I don't feel that FTF was playing well here.

    … then again, "This is not a mafia post" could be tmi again, too-certain. *wobbly hand gesture.*

    #216 - calls out FTF's post on vanity, asking what the townie motivation of it was. I agree, I have trouble parsing this as earlygame pressure. + town points.

    #221 is encouraging discussion, fingers Adrian with suspicion but doesn't assume their own reads are good; good towny content

    #223 feels overly certain to me when it calls Vanity a townie. I was pinged by the post they're calling towny here. The strong, unwavering defense of Vanity seems a little questionable now.

    #226 is anti-town - trying to shut down discussion, not contributing to the thread. + scumpoints.

    #230 - agrees with Adrian that 112 looks towny? That doesn't scan to me, Adrian and 112 are both not looking good rn. Is this a case of me throwing my current reads backwards in time, or is this as unreasonable as I feel it is?

    Well, let's back up a bit… Oh hey, MacDougall thought Vanity is towny for the post where they voted 112??? (#214)

    That feels inconsistent to me. Let's check the votal… Nobody yet actually voting 112. Scum soft-defending a fellow wolf? Feels a bit early to be making "this bandwagon seems off" statements, the pressure's hardly even on yet. Let's see, who's expressed suspicion of 112 at this point?
    - Texas
    - Grapefruit
    - Vanity

    Hyena slightly townreads them, FTF townreads them by implication, Adrian explicitly likes them. Yeah, this feels surprising to me, and it lowers my opinion of both Adrian and Hyena as well as Mac.

    #231 at least gives evidence of why they feel 112 is not mafia, so honestly if anything this affects my read of Adrian the most.

    #236 is meh.

    #238 - says if Vanity is scum, 112 must also be scum. Let's see if they hold to that long-term.

    #240 - empty banter with FTF, anti-town.

    #244 brings the fire on FTF's attack on vanity; feels good to me.

    #246 continues to be empty bantz with FTF, anti-town.

    #248 is good, pushing FTF to explain the actual meaning behind their posts.

    #256 is… what. Why the gif. I don't get what you're trying to say here. @Macdougall please explain what this means. Seems to be a scum ping in context?

    #257 - seems to have reversed position on Vanity, which is why I say #256 is a scum ping to them?

    #261 - defends 112 again, consistent. That's good.

    #263, #266, #272, #280 are pretty empty. I like #284's continued spice towards FTF, though, and it was a reasonable callout given that they were asking an anti-town question. (given that Hyena's 'cover' hadn't been blown yet.)

    #288 is again a strong callout, this time of funnier6's low activity levels. Strong towny vibes here.

    At first I thought #289 was a good question - why the hell did HATER just ping 112 with zero accompanying text? - then I realized that I just can't see HATER's image-of-text on my laptop for some goddamn reason. Probably the same thing happened to Mac.

    #290 feels…. Ehhhhh NAI. Meh. #295 gives me much better town vibes.

    #298, #299, #300, #302 is pretty empty.

    #304 is interesting, slight town-lead on Adrian but gives room for movement. Could be wolfy, could just be town hedging.

    #310, #317 is good progression on FTF, open to the possiblity of either town or scum and giving reasons in advance for why they'd feel one way or the other. Very towny post 10/10.

    #320 puts pressure on 112 when they said earlier they felt they were town. Not sure if inconsistent or evolution, more context will probably illuminate.

    #327 - suddenly thinks Adrian is scum? This makes #304 look bad in retrospect. Posted at 9:36; #304 was posted at 9:26. That's a heck of an evolution to go through in ten minutes.

    These two are worth reproducing in full:

    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#304)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#190)
    Thinking IBA may be my second early town read. I think his frustration at randing town lowering his odds of winning comes off as genuine as do his questions about how to increase town's chances of winning and his list of claimed town. Think the logic is lacking a bit for the latter move but having wolfed with him before, I feel wolf IBA is more calculated in what he says.
    You seem town, but you're not welcome in the town core. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#327)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#213)
    I'm starting to warm up to Choxorn. His talk about joking early on when the game is still fresh and just his tone in general comes off as genuine to me.
    I think Adrian is a wolf. I think he's a tank and lynching him is going to be a challenge, but I think he is a wolf.

    Despite there being a real nice sincerity to his posts, as I read through he never really latches on to anything. He makes these observations that have no edge to them. There is no town spark.
    These are ten minutes apart. I don't like this. I don't like this one bit.

    #328 - States Choxorn is one of their mafia reads.

    #329 - Says Adrian was towncore but they have been exiled.

    Apparently Macdougall is so convinced that Choxorn is scum that they're willing to completely flip their opinion of Adrian based on their read of Chox. I still am firmly of the belief that Chox is town. Moreover, where is Mac's vote at this point? Why, it was nowhere. If Mac feels that Chox is scum and Adrian is scum, why the hell aren't they voting for one of them?

    #336 - then immediately pivots their new scumread of adrian to put more pressure on Funnier???

    #340 - townreads Texas, contradicting vanity. Alright.

    #344 - reads list: town Grape, Texas, Hyena, 112, Vanity, scum Adrian. Seems weird that they feel that grape & vanity vs. 112 is a TTvT fight, as well as believing that vanity & Texas is a TvT fight. Seriously???

    #347, 350, 353, 356, 357, 362 seem pretty empty. Low-effort content. Then back to Adrian again in #365, which seems worth reproducing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#365)
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian (#343)
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#296)
    IBA is too oddball
    On my homesite the forcing claims for no reason thing comes from townies that don't want to solve
    Not wolves, just shortcut chasing townies
    and his insistence on the nl makes me feel like the claim begging is town indicative
    anyone follow?
    For me, it's the emotional tell, like I responded to funnier before. But you do have a point about wolves probably not being so brazen with asking people to claim and offering a no lynxh as an option. I know that IBA is a good wolf from wolfing with him in G8, so I read him as really wanting to try to maximize town's chances of winning.
    Reading your posts makes me feel like I am being gaslighted.
    I still don't get the tonal evolution here. This seems very abrupt and overly harsh. I also don't like that string of low-effort content right before this; I feel like Mac's trying to distract me from the badness of that readlist in #344.

    #369 is a bit of a return to form, and is an evolution away from their pressure on Funnier earlier. I like this even though I still dislike Funnier.

    #373 - agrees with Chox, their hard scumread, about why Adrian is scummy. Mmmmm towny? Being willing to listen to others' arguments matters…

    #376 - more banter with funnier6, blah blah

    #380 - feels like they need to justify their attack on Adrian, repeats their earlier reasoning + personal emotions re the previous game. Wolfy?

    #387 raises my eyebrows, given that the thread is indeed being flooded with infinite bull$#@! at this point. What are you seeing about FTF that I'm not, @Macdougall? Where is their useful content?

    #392, my first interaction with them - apparently I thought they were telling FTF to shut up? How the hell did I get that impression? Let me read the context here… I guess I must have interpreted #317 weirdly. Huh.

    #395 is a nothingpost. #398 is a question I missed - @Macdougall, what I was saying is that Adrian was not using his vote effectively. At that time Adrian had his vote on Hyena and it'd been there since post #220, which was by that time two pages ago. Hyena's last post previous to this was #215; clearly he had left the thread, and therefore Adrian's vote was uselessly parked on an inactive. I didn't think that was strong evidence of anything, but it was worth prodding them over to see if they'd move it.

    #404 is a good point against funnier6. Continuing to feel that Funnier's off.

    #422 is a full readslist! I like it, will be informative going forwards. Nothing here is significantly new or different, save that they believe HATER to be town and 112 to be deepwolfing. Where'd the evolution on 112 come from?

    #425, #427, #429 are fairly contentless.

    #433 establishes immediate scumread on CCC. I can get behind this.

    #437 continues the feud with Adrian, but feels pretty contentless. I'm starting to worry about W/W here.

    #440 - AGAIN completely reverses their read of someone based on the fact that they think Choxorn is Town. This time it's HATER. Why??? This super, super smells of TMI.

    #445 continues continuing feud with Adrian. God this is getting tiring.

    #446 - responds to Funnier complaining about them flipflopping a lot on their read. (Of funnier.) Mac says they're analyzing each thing independently and then assembling them. Searching for "funnier" here, they have in fact been putting pressure towards them since RVS, but looking back at it… Their reasons for it seem odd. In order: RVS, inactivity, association with Adrian. Not exactly stellar scumtells. Why are they tunneling this so hard?

    #448 proves that MacDougall can't see the image that HATER posted earlier in #289. Yay me, I did a detective.

    #449 and #450… Suddenly Mac's pressure on funnier just evaporates. I am really smelling w/w in these interactions now. Lynch Funnier first, but if they flip scum I want Mac to go after them.

    #453 refers me to their wallpost if I want to learn about their chox read. Okay, I'll go back to #422. Quote: "At first I was going to give him a town pass because that intro post attracted some suspicion, but then ... it didn't attract enough. His reaction was defensive. His tone, generally anxious. Choxorn is a strong scum read. I think not w/w with Adrian though."

    Based on a defensive reaction and an anxious tone you developed a scumread so hard it flipped two of your hard townreads???

    Lemme see if 112's decided to actually participate yet. ...Nope, they're going full AtE. Sigh.

    Double FoS @Macdougall. What the hell is up with you and Funnier?
    This is worth looking into in more detail later when I have more time. The ten-minute reversal on Adrian, the hard scumread on Chox (who I'm townleaning on) and the scumread on me (definitely Town) are all hints that Mac might not be posting from a Towny place here.

    I'll ISO him later this evening, but I think that the case presented here is good enough to move my vote already...

    ##Vote Macdougall

  47. Bookmark ISO #1297
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1277)
    ##Vote footballFOCUS

    I ride with nute.
    Uhhh

    why

  48. Bookmark ISO #1298
    Thread Analyst CCC_037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1240)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCC_037 (#1235)
    Let me draw attention to two specific points in the above post:

    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#948)
    the first problem with this argument is, once again, it ignores the fact that i'm NOT pushing nutella or football for specifically lhf reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#948)
    the third problem is i'm not even denying my reasoning for pushing football and nutella are based on them being lhf.
    Do you see why thee two contradict each other?

    As to your second problem, the fallacy in question is that you are seeing a correlation and treating it as a causation. There are plenty of ways to describe someone as scummy, but not very scummy (e.g. "minor scumlean", "slightly scummy", "lowkey scummy") and using a particular phrase would, I imagine, correlate mostly with phrases commonly used on someone's homesite and NOT with alignment as such. Claiming that someone is scummy for using a particular phrasing to describe a minor scumlean seems like a pretty ridiculous reason to me.
    i wasn't even going to respond to this but instead of trying talking to you, i'm going to talk to the rest of the town about this post.

    yeah point 1 and point 3 are contradictions, but here's the magic: they're not, and the fact that you and no one else is even realizing it is baffling me. but it also puts a smile on my face. i will say this for the umpteenth time since no one appears to take this seriously: my reasonings for scumreading nutella and football initially had nothing to do with them being low hanging fruit. the reason this is a valid argument is because i didn't even really consider them lhf until football brought up the 17 pages post, which directly correlates to postcount. regardless of my alignment, trust me that when i was pushing on those 2, it wasn't for any particular postcount related reasonings.

    my definition of a low hanging fruit is someone who is in the bottom 3rd of posters. it doesn't take into account anything else. if you have a different definition, that's perfectly fine. this was MY thought process at the time and i'm giving you guys my thought process here because i have nothing to hide.

    there's no objective way to read someone in the game of mafia other than mechanics. when i think someone is saying or doing something scummy or wolfy, i don't use an additional adjective. i just say scummy or wolfy, because the -y already indicates an uncertainty. so basically calling something "lowkey scummy" or "lowkey wolfy" is repetitive. people use different wordings, i know, but the specific wording pinged me. i see no reason why i can't have that read because, worst case scenario, it helps me get a read on football by pressing and pressuring him.

    and again, i said this before, but this seems like another example of you acting like a robot. this doesn't even have anything to do with ccc's gameplay in g9, when someone acts this stoically and logically and robotically, i'm never going to townread it.
    So, you're saying that your original reasons for scumreading Nutella and Football weren't that they were LHF (presumably they were then Nutella's lack of reasoning and Football's phrasing of 'lowkey scummy'); but that, after noticing that they were also low-hanging fruit (by which you mean they had low post counts), you decided that was a reason to double down on your scumreads of them?

    That resolves the apparent contradiction, but it really doesn't make you look any less scummy.

  49. Bookmark ISO #1299
    Thread Analyst nutella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1281)
    ^having trouble quoting that on ky phone @Adrian but we mindmelded on foot's entrance. People took issue with both of our earlier votes but I thought they were fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1282)
    Also, current wagons are going nowhere and ccc's picked up his game.
    yeah idk man. I voted for you before I even saw these posts but this makes me even more uncomfortable and thus more comfortable with my vote.

  50. Bookmark ISO #1300
    Soul Reader 112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112 (#1287)
    @grapefruit21 - I'm going to reply to you when I'm at my computer, give me an hour to get home
    nvm, thought you posted something for me but can't find it, not sure what I'm thinking

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