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Thread: Delayed proxy vote?

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    Delayed proxy vote?

    Hey,

    Not sure how hard this is (probably hard af?) to code, but:

    Delayed proxy voting. Meaning let's say you have a 12amET EOD but you don't want to spend bedtime playing mafia. If you go to bed at 10PM, you miss out on EOD movement and things that your team might need to achieve victory.

    Enter delayed proxy voting:

    scrolls down to bottom of the page
    Vote: Bob the Example Dummy at... sets time.. 11:55PMET
    goes to bed, wakes up, Bob is lynched

    While yeah I know there's the "vote who you want before you leave", or "come back in time for EOD", but if I could set it and forget it like a crockpot (and maybe pull a deceptive huzzah! moment even while not in the thread), that'd be pretty neat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

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    Wants It More El-ahrairah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1)
    Hey,

    Not sure how hard this is (probably hard af?) to code, but:

    Delayed proxy voting. Meaning let's say you have a 12amET EOD but you don't want to spend bedtime playing mafia. If you go to bed at 10PM, you miss out on EOD movement and things that your team might need to achieve victory.

    Enter delayed proxy voting:

    scrolls down to bottom of the page
    Vote: Bob the Example Dummy at... sets time.. 11:55PMET
    goes to bed, wakes up, Bob is lynched

    While yeah I know there's the "vote who you want before you leave", or "come back in time for EOD", but if I could set it and forget it like a crockpot (and maybe pull a deceptive huzzah! moment even while not in the thread), that'd be pretty neat.
    Hmm, I can see it causing potential drama. For example, what happens if you set your proxy vote to Bob the Example Dummy, but you've randed wolf, and in your wolfchat your team decides Bob needs to be kept alive for some reason. Having your vote change after that decision has been made and while you are unaware of the decision could be awkward.

    Also I foresee this as a great excuse for wolves to mislynch PRs. "Oh, I didn't see their claim 1 minute before EoD, I proxy-voted them 5 minutes earlier and was in bed at the time." Of course, wolves could still do this now with a parked vote, but if someone's parked and never votes before EoD you can fairly rely on them telling the truth (because how would you even know if they were just a parked lurker?) But if someone claims a proxy vote when it wasn't in fact a proxy vote but an opportunistic wolf looking to lynch a PR, they could just vote and claim proxy the next day.

    I think even if it was a thing in games, I personally wouldn't use it. I'd just park and peace-out for the night.
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    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Personally, I don't think I'd risk using it in that fashion; you never know if the gamestate could have completely changed by stuff by the time EoD has rolled around!!!

    I probably only would use it for like... vote-coordination hammers for maj, or ensuring you're all on the same wagon at EoD in a game without maj!!

    Would take the fun out of mafia-coordination a little, though I've never mis-coordinated a hammer like that, so my answer could be different than if I had!!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

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    Bandwagoner Rich Uncle Pennybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#1)
    Hey,

    Not sure how hard this is (probably hard af?) to code, but:

    Delayed proxy voting. Meaning let's say you have a 12amET EOD but you don't want to spend bedtime playing mafia. If you go to bed at 10PM, you miss out on EOD movement and things that your team might need to achieve victory.

    Enter delayed proxy voting:

    scrolls down to bottom of the page
    Vote: Bob the Example Dummy at... sets time.. 11:55PMET
    goes to bed, wakes up, Bob is lynched

    While yeah I know there's the "vote who you want before you leave", or "come back in time for EOD", but if I could set it and forget it like a crockpot (and maybe pull a deceptive huzzah! moment even while not in the thread), that'd be pretty neat.
    outstanding idea, seconded

    solves time zone issues too
    Last edited by Rich Uncle Pennybags; December 13th, 2019 at 11:50 PM.

  5. ISO #5
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#3)
    Personally, I don't think I'd risk using it in that fashion; you never know if the gamestate could have completely changed by stuff by the time EoD has rolled around!!!
    This.

    This a million times.

    I don't plan to encourage slanking. If you can't be here then you can't vote. Just vote now.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#5)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#3)
    Personally, I don't think I'd risk using it in that fashion; you never know if the gamestate could have completely changed by stuff by the time EoD has rolled around!!!
    This.

    This a million times.

    I don't plan to encourage slanking. If you can't be here then you can't vote. Just vote now.
    If the gamestate changes, that's on the person using the proxy vote

    The meta can change and adapt based on however they choose to use it, it's their choice

    I'd love to be able to sign up for games where I don't have to feel like I'm holding back my team because I can't make EOD d1 of the most common timeframe (12/12) on the site
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's $#@!ing with you.

  7. ISO #7
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#6)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#5)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#3)
    Personally, I don't think I'd risk using it in that fashion; you never know if the gamestate could have completely changed by stuff by the time EoD has rolled around!!!
    This.

    This a million times.

    I don't plan to encourage slanking. If you can't be here then you can't vote. Just vote now.
    If the gamestate changes, that's on the person using the proxy vote

    The meta can change and adapt based on however they choose to use it, it's their choice

    I'd love to be able to sign up for games where I don't have to feel like I'm holding back my team because I can't make EOD d1 of the most common timeframe (12/12) on the site
    Just vote now then...?
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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  8. ISO #8
    Proxy voting would only serve to allow afk wolves to snipe a mislynch at EoD.

  9. ISO #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#8)
    Proxy voting would only serve to allow afk wolves to snipe a mislynch at EoD.
    That is essentially the risk

    And the meta of that is another element of the game that would be fascinating to watch play out

    I don't understand why we can have a lot of pro-town features added, but the one somewhat mafia-sided feature (that could blow up in their faces hard) is denied
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's $#@!ing with you.

  10. ISO #10
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#9)
    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#8)
    Proxy voting would only serve to allow afk wolves to snipe a mislynch at EoD.
    That is essentially the risk

    And the meta of that is another element of the game that would be fascinating to watch play out

    I don't understand why we can have a lot of pro-town features added, but the one somewhat mafia-sided feature (that could blow up in their faces hard) is denied
    My objection has nothing to do with which alignment it benefits. Enabling people to slank will increase the likelihood of slanking. Slanking is bad.

    If someone made a bot or script that would do this for them on their own end and we found out about it, I think we would have problems with that as well.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#10)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#9)
    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#8)
    Proxy voting would only serve to allow afk wolves to snipe a mislynch at EoD.
    That is essentially the risk

    And the meta of that is another element of the game that would be fascinating to watch play out

    I don't understand why we can have a lot of pro-town features added, but the one somewhat mafia-sided feature (that could blow up in their faces hard) is denied
    My objection has nothing to do with which alignment it benefits. Enabling people to slank will increase the likelihood of slanking. Slanking is bad.

    If someone made a bot or script that would do this for them on their own end and we found out about it, I think we would have problems with that as well.
    I think it more encourages "not being on MafiaUniverse every five minutes", which would be great for the mash culture especially
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's $#@!ing with you.

  12. ISO #12
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Scenario 1:

    - Bob sets up a delayed vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Scenario 2:

    - Bob places a normal or small delay proxy vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Both of these cases are examples of angleshooting.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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  13. ISO #13
    I think a better implementation of proxy voting would be to allow players to assign another player AS their proxy to vote in their place.

    That way, there is no guessing as to the timing of the votes and accountability remains an issue. It also provides more flexibility to allow for changes in landscape.
    Last edited by TwiszTed; December 22nd, 2019 at 04:49 PM.

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    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#13)
    I think a better implementation of proxy voting would be to allow players to assign another player AS their proxy to vote in their place.

    That way, there is no guessing as to the timing of the votes and accountability remains an issue. It also provides more flexibility to allow for changes in landscape.
    This is a novel mechanic that I could see being interesting. Since someone still has to be around to make votes and someone is still held accountable, it just puts more of a spot light on a particular person's reads.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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  15. ISO #15
    Inspired by Sons of Anarchy.

  16. ISO #16
    GOAT Tier Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#13)
    I think a better implementation of proxy voting would be to allow players to assign another player AS their proxy to vote in their place.

    That way, there is no guessing as to the timing of the votes and accountability remains an issue. It also provides more flexibility to allow for changes in landscape.
    What if you're town putting your votes in the hand of scum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's $#@!ing with you.

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    GOAT Tier Phighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#12)
    Scenario 1:

    - Bob sets up a delayed vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Scenario 2:

    - Bob places a normal or small delay proxy vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Both of these cases are examples of angleshooting.
    I disagree about calling #1 angleshooting. It's deliberate play, and would probably be heavily suspected.

    I don't see how either of them are angleshooting, really. They're still going to be hammmered and questioned for why they set up in the first place, and any co-conspirators (purposeful or not) are going to look wolfy or be pushed on by wolves.

    I think it's at least worth testing in a handful of games, if a bad toxic meta springs up and it's not worthwhile, okay delete it, but otherwise could be helpful. I can run some small games in 2020 to test it if we'd like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#233)
    So here's the deal, Champ.

    1. Phighter's $#@!ing with you.

  18. ISO #18
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#13)
    I think a better implementation of proxy voting would be to allow players to assign another player AS their proxy to vote in their place.

    That way, there is no guessing as to the timing of the votes and accountability remains an issue. It also provides more flexibility to allow for changes in landscape.
    Not a fan of this; can easily see someone just foisting responsibility off onto someone and never actually bothering to play the game itself, and also does not sound fun for whoever has to try to solve the game with a ton of votes or something!!

    Sure, maybe some people like being in control of five votes or something, but like... can easily see

    Also see it being extremely annoying for mafia if everyone decided to give their votes to an IC or something, what are they supposed to do about that?

    Not to mention mashes: that's where I can really see it being extremely annoying for both alignments, if you have maybe a vt that just has 10 votes or something through this - how are you supposed to defend yourself as mafia or as town if you're trying to talk to people for instance, but there's no point because this one person is voting you with 22 votes or something and you're always getting lynched?

    Even more bothersome for mafia in these cases; it's rare that you manage to get one of you into the "confirmed towns" through either a greencheck or mechanical clearing or whatnot, and guess where those votes are going to go? Yes, those confirmed towns!!!

    It basically goes against the inherent concept of each person having their voice, their vote, and sometimes a PR to play with as a small portion of the game; this just sounds more and more gamebreaking/susceptible to abuse the more I consider it!!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

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  19. ISO #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#16)
    Quote Originally Posted by TwiszTed (#13)
    I think a better implementation of proxy voting would be to allow players to assign another player AS their proxy to vote in their place.

    That way, there is no guessing as to the timing of the votes and accountability remains an issue. It also provides more flexibility to allow for changes in landscape.
    What if you're town putting your votes in the hand of scum?
    Then you're accountable for that decision.

    It's also another point of analysis.
    Last edited by TwiszTed; December 24th, 2019 at 11:51 AM.

  20. ISO #20
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phighter (#17)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#12)
    Scenario 1:

    - Bob sets up a delayed vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Scenario 2:

    - Bob places a normal or small delay proxy vote on Sally near deadline.
    - This results in swinging the momentum and Sally gets mislynched.
    - When Bob is asked why they voted there/suspected for it, Bob says they set up a delayed vote and weren't around to know what has happened since they scheduled it, to ease the suspicion.

    Both of these cases are examples of angleshooting.
    I disagree about calling #1 angleshooting. It's deliberate play, and would probably be heavily suspected.

    I don't see how either of them are angleshooting, really. They're still going to be hammmered and questioned for why they set up in the first place, and any co-conspirators (purposeful or not) are going to look wolfy or be pushed on by wolves.

    I think it's at least worth testing in a handful of games, if a bad toxic meta springs up and it's not worthwhile, okay delete it, but otherwise could be helpful. I can run some small games in 2020 to test it if we'd like.
    Using a site feature as an excuse/to lie is angle shooting even if people don't buy it.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


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  21. ISO #21
    GOAT Tier metsnfins's Avatar
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    if its mafia doing the proxy vote, mafia knows where your vote is 100% ending up while villagers dont; too much info

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