Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 251 to 276 of 276

Thread: Mafia Championship Season 7 - Setup Discussion

  1. ISO #251
    I'm a proponent of cardflips off
    it's what I was raised on for some time

  2. ISO #252
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    26,350
    Community
    Mafia Games Discord
    AKA
    Ara
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief (#229)
    Quote Originally Posted by Newcomb (#228)
    W I T C H
    U
    N
    T
    I would actually consider participating in a Witch Hunt Champs season just to experience it with a bunch of other people struggling through it for the first time.

    ara don't you dare

  3. ISO #253
    Wants It More beruru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    capital of books
    Posts
    9,601
    Timezone
    UTC-08:00
    Community
    Gaia Online
    Pronouns
    they/them/their/theirs/themself
    Gender
    oh yeah

    I forgot that forum mafia has flips

  4. ISO #254
    Soul Reader Soneji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Florida Keys
    Posts
    1,548
    Timezone
    UTC-05:00
    Community
    Narutoforums
    AKA
    WolfPrinceKouga, WPK
    Pronouns
    he/him/his/his/himself
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#245)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#243)
    Not to say flipless is impossible even in forum mafia, but it's ridiculously wolf-sided and far from what most communities are used to.
    And that's different to all of the other seasons why?
    We're supposed to be aiming for a less wolf-sided setup, not more. Going flipless would be to metaphorically flip the table over and say "$#@! you!" to balance entirely.

  5. ISO #255
    Wants It More beruru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    capital of books
    Posts
    9,601
    Timezone
    UTC-08:00
    Community
    Gaia Online
    Pronouns
    they/them/their/theirs/themself
    Gender
    flipless is a different skillset like how mountainous is a different skillset

    it's not like you never get alignment info. flipless setups are designed so that you get alignment info in other ways

  6. ISO #256
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by beruru (#255)
    flipless is a different skillset like how mountainous is a different skillset

    it's not like you never get alignment info. flipless setups are designed so that you get alignment info in other ways
    I don't think the culture here would tolerate the kind of radical change in balance that I think would be needed in terms of numbers, etc., that would be required to facilitate a flipless roleset that Town would win 45-55% of the time.

  7. ISO #257
    GOAT Tier Jaleb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    17,829
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Community
    EpicMafia/DailyMafia
    AKA
    Onuzq
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#254)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#245)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#243)
    Not to say flipless is impossible even in forum mafia, but it's ridiculously wolf-sided and far from what most communities are used to.
    And that's different to all of the other seasons why?
    We're supposed to be aiming for a less wolf-sided setup, not more. Going flipless would be to metaphorically flip the table over and say "$#@! you!" to balance entirely.
    It's more shocking imo. Gotta world build instead of knowing everything when getting late

  8. ISO #258
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#257)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#254)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#245)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#243)
    Not to say flipless is impossible even in forum mafia, but it's ridiculously wolf-sided and far from what most communities are used to.
    And that's different to all of the other seasons why?
    We're supposed to be aiming for a less wolf-sided setup, not more. Going flipless would be to metaphorically flip the table over and say "$#@! you!" to balance entirely.
    It's more shocking imo. Gotta world build instead of knowing everything when getting late
    I love creativity, including flipless, which is why I'm going to run one. But I doubt I'll get enough signers because when people see the ratio of Town to Mafia they'll all say "omg townsided."

  9. ISO #259
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?

  10. ISO #260
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    26,350
    Community
    Mafia Games Discord
    AKA
    Ara
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!

  11. ISO #261
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    I...I...think I'm in love with that idea.

    3 Townies in F3.

    You'd have to let it go to the bitter end each time because otherwise they'd know they got the wolf.

    It's genius actually.

  12. ISO #262
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Visor you might get that chest hair after all...

  13. ISO #263
    GOAT Tier Jaleb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    17,829
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Community
    EpicMafia/DailyMafia
    AKA
    Onuzq
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    People can figure out that there's 0 mafia alive after f5 cause there is no kp the next night.

  14. ISO #264
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    33,741
    Timezone
    UTC±00:00
    Community
    DailyMafia
    AKA
    The Potato King
    Pronouns
    he/him/his/his/himself
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#200)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa (#198)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#196)
    Quote Originally Posted by bbt (#195)
    Does tracking an arsonist when they ignite even return any result? iirc the target is set to null in modbot.
    Tracker should get a result of "Arsonist visited Victim."

    @Makaze can confirm
    Dousing tracks, igniting doesn't
    Would they detect motion on an ignite target?
    Flavour wise theres a gas trail to the arsonists house and he doesn't go anywhere and just ignites the trail.

  15. ISO #265
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    33,741
    Timezone
    UTC±00:00
    Community
    DailyMafia
    AKA
    The Potato King
    Pronouns
    he/him/his/his/himself
    Gender
    So he really does nothing

  16. ISO #266
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    26,350
    Community
    Mafia Games Discord
    AKA
    Ara
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    People can figure out that there's 0 mafia alive after f5 cause there is no kp the next night.
    Not if the factional kill is mandatory, regardless of if faction members are alive or not!!!

  17. ISO #267
    Wants It More LanMisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    German Democratic Republic (former)
    Posts
    7,455
    Timezone
    UTC+01:00
    Community
    Forum Paradox
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#266)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    People can figure out that there's 0 mafia alive after f5 cause there is no kp the next night.
    Not if the factional kill is mandatory, regardless of if faction members are alive or not!!!
    And I got harsh and massive criticism when I talked about flipless games smh...

  18. ISO #268
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#266)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    People can figure out that there's 0 mafia alive after f5 cause there is no kp the next night.
    Not if the factional kill is mandatory, regardless of if faction members are alive or not!!!
    Modbot cannot handle your setup. The latest you can procrastinate game completion is true victory. I've been asking for a setting that would keep the game going until manually ended due to some setup variations I've had (none of which had only town alive, don't get me wrong).

  19. ISO #269
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#266)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleb (#263)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    People can figure out that there's 0 mafia alive after f5 cause there is no kp the next night.
    Not if the factional kill is mandatory, regardless of if faction members are alive or not!!!
    If/when Makaze adds a "don't end til I say so" setting, it should be tested to make sure factional kills continue even in the absence of non-Town when set at mandatory. I wonder how "assigned" would work in that regard.

  20. ISO #270
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#260)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#259)
    Completely flipless makes no sense. I mean, the last wolf is always flipless because it ends the game when you kill them so that doesn't matter.

    You have to have 3 wolves for flipless to make sense, and the best challenge is to make only the second one flip, DUCY?
    In order for it to be suitable for champs, the game wouldn't end on death of the third mafia; send the players to F3 regardless of if the mafia is alive or not!!!

    Helps ensure that players get as much chance to show off their skills as possible!!
    If Champs could be judged on a point system, there should be a boatload of bonus points if Town gets to F3 with exclusively Town and they all correctly vote no lynch. What a gamble!

  21. ISO #271
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    5 more please so we can start tomorrow on time

    may have to start Tuesday

  22. ISO #272
    GOAT Tier bearsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    15,762
    Timezone
    UTC-05:00
    Community
    MiniMafia
    Gender
    This might be more structure related, but I'm going to map out potential tournament structures based on setup size (15, 13, 17) to see how they may differ, and see how they look when you try to align them as much as possible (using GH's proposed structure for 15 as a baseline).

    Label Slots Qualifers QT VSPG VA VA % JA JA % Wildcards WCT WCTA % FAPG FAR WCFA % FA % TG
    15er 15 10 150 2 20 13.33% 25 16.67% 3 45 30.00% 5 0 33.33% 3.33% 14
    13er (Up) 13 12 156 2 24 15.38% 28 17.95% 4 52 33.33% 3 1 25.00% 1.92% 17
    13er (Down) 13 11 143 1 11 7.69% 28 19.58% 3 39 27.27% 4 1 33.33% 2.80% 15
    13er (Nearest) 13 12 156 1 12 7.69% 27 17.31% 3 39 25.00% 4 1 33.33% 2.56% 16
    13er (Same) 13 10 130 1 10 7.69% 29 22.31% 3 39 30.00% 4 1 33.33% 3.08% 14
    13er (Same 2) 13 10 130 2 20 15.38% 19 14.62% 3 39 30.00% 4 1 33.33% 3.08% 14
    17er (Up) 17 9 153 2 18 11.76% 33 21.57% 3 51 33.33% 5 2 33.33% 3.27% 13
    17er (Up 2) 17 9 153 3 27 17.65% 24 15.69% 3 51 33.33% 5 2 33.33% 3.27% 13
    17er (Down) 17 8 136 2 16 11.76% 18 13.24% 2 34 25.00% 8 1 50.00% 5.88% 11
    17er (Same) 17 10 170 2 20 11.76% 31 18.24% 3 51 30.00% 5 2 33.33% 2.94% 14


    Label = Structure Label
    Slots = Number of players per game
    Qualifiers = Number of qualifier games
    QT = Qualifier Total => Total number of players in qualifier games
    VSPG = Voted slots per game => how many players advance to wildcards by votes
    VA = Vote Advanced => Total number players advanced to wildcards via votes
    VA % = Vote Advanced % => Percentage of total number of players advanced to wildcards via votes
    JA = Jury Advanced => Total number players advanced to wildcards via Jury
    JA % = Jury Advanced % => Percentage of total number players advanced to wildcards via Jury
    Wildcards = Number of wildcard games
    WCT = Wildcard Total => Total number of players in wildcard games
    WCTA % = Wildcard Total Advanced => Percentage of total number of players advanced to wildcards
    FAPG = Finals Advanced Per Game => Total number of players advanced to finals per game
    FAR = Finals Advanced Remainder => Total number of players leftover after FAPG * Wildcard Games; if this value is non-zero, the number of players advanced per wildcard game does not produce enough players and the number represents how many players will need to be advanced using some other method
    WCFA % = Wildcard Finals Advanced => Percentage of players in wildcards to advance to finals
    FA % = Finals Advanced % => Percentage of total number of players to advance to finals
    TG = Total Games => Total number of games

    Labels are the size of the setup followed by how I rounded the numbers relative to the number of players in each round determined by the 15er structure. For example, 13er (Up) I rounded the number of qualifiers up to get over 150, and the number of wildcard games up to get over 45. 13er (Nearest) chose the number games that resulted in the closest values to the 15er values. 17er (Up) also happens to be 17er (Nearest) so I only listed it once.

    13er (Same), 13er (Same 2), and 17er (Same) used the same number of games per round as 15er (10 and 3).

    13er (Same 2) advances 2 players per game by vote rather than 1. 17er (Up 2) advances 3 players per game by vote rather than 2.

    The number of players advanced by votes was always less than the number of players advanced by jury except in 13er (Same 2).


    Without knowing exactly what the priorities are for a good tournament structure it's difficult to provide a truly useful analysis, but if the 15er structure is assumed to represent ideal or close to ideal numbers, the best choice for setup size would be... 15. Obviously. The closest non-15 player setup structure to the 15er one is unclear, and still depends on what is prioritized.

    13ers

    Of the 13er structures, 13er (Nearest) produces the closest qualifer and wildcard totals (+6 and -6) respectively, but advances significantly fewer players to wildcards via voting and adds an additional 2 games to the tournament by requiring 12 qualifier games. 13er (Same 2) has 20 less total participants, but advances the exact same number of players via votes and a fewer, but similar, number of players via Jury. The number of total games remains the same at 14.

    All 13er structures (and 17ers in fact) have a similar problem in that you can't advance an even number of players from each game to the finals. You would have one slot that you'd need to fill somehow.

    17ers

    17er (Up) and 17er (Up 2) is closest overall numbers wise with 153 (+3) and 51 (+6) with similar ratios of players advancing to wildcards and finals, and has 1 fewer game overall (13). 17er (Up) more heavily weighs Jury advancement than voting relative to the 15er whereas 17er (Up 2) has much closer ratios of players advanced by vote/jury, but more players are advanced via vote than Jury (27 to 24).

    17er (Down) reduces the number of games total by 3 (11 total), and wildcard games by 1 (2 total) a much smaller percentage of total players to wildcards, and larger percentage of total players to finals. The number of players overall is reduced by 14 as well. I feel like fewer players in wildcards is not really a desirable property for the tournament structure.

    17er (Same) is reasonable, but increasing the total number of players to 170 seems potentially difficult. This could be mitigated by giving some communities a second slot, or having some other qualification though, and it's numbers/ratios seem pretty good otherwise.

    17er (Up), 17er (Up 2), and 17er (Same) all have 2 slots remaining for finals after wildcard voting which seems marginally more difficult to resolve than 1 slot remaining, but can probably be handled by taking a couple of 6th place finishers from wildcard games.

  23. ISO #273
    GOAT Tier bearsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    15,762
    Timezone
    UTC-05:00
    Community
    MiniMafia
    Gender
    Something I had thought of to solve/mitigate the "night 1 problem" was more or less automatically advancing N1 kills to wildcards or some kind of intermediate "redemption" round. I ran the numbers for those like I did in my last post:

    Label Slots Qualifers QT N1A VSPG VA VA % JA JA % Wildcards WCT WCTA % FAPG FAR WCFA % TG
    15er 15 10 150 10 1 10 6.67% 25 16.67% 3 45 30.00% 5 0 33.33% 14
    13er (Up) 13 12 156 12 1 12 7.69% 28 17.95% 4 52 33.33% 3 1 25.00% 17
    13er (Down) 13 11 143 11 1 11 7.69% 17 11.89% 3 39 27.27% 4 1 33.33% 15
    13er (Nearest) 13 12 156 12 1 12 7.69% 15 9.62% 3 39 25.00% 4 1 33.33% 16
    13er (Same) 13 10 130 10 1 10 7.69% 19 14.62% 3 39 30.00% 4 1 33.33% 14
    17er (Up) 17 9 153 9 2 18 11.76% 24 15.69% 3 51 33.33% 5 2 33.33% 13
    17er (Down) 17 8 136 8 1 8 5.88% 18 13.24% 2 34 25.00% 8 1 50.00% 11
    17er (Same) 17 10 170 10 1 10 5.88% 31 18.24% 3 51 30.00% 5 2 33.33% 14
    15er + 1 WC 15 10 150 10 2 20 13.33% 30 20.00% 4 60 40.00% 3 3 25.00% 15
    13er (Up) + 1 WC 13 12 156 12 2 24 15.38% 29 18.59% 5 65 41.67% 2 3 20.00% 18
    13er (Down) + 1 WC 13 11 143 11 1 11 7.69% 30 20.98% 4 52 36.36% 3 1 25.00% 16
    13er (Nearest) + 1 WC 13 12 156 12 1 12 7.69% 28 17.95% 4 52 33.33% 3 1 25.00% 17
    13er (Same) + 1 WC 13 10 130 10 2 20 15.38% 22 16.92% 4 52 40.00% 3 1 25.00% 15
    17er (Up) + 1 WC 17 9 153 9 3 27 17.65% 32 20.92% 4 68 44.44% 4 1 25.00% 14
    17er (Down) + 1 WC 17 8 136 8 2 16 11.76% 27 19.85% 3 51 37.50% 5 2 33.33% 12
    17er (Same) + 1 WC 17 10 170 10 2 20 11.76% 38 22.35% 4 68 40.00% 4 1 25.00% 15

    With the same number of wildcard games (or really just post-qualifier games) then voting takes a pretty big hit in terms of significance if you always keep the number of players advanced by Jury greater than that of voting. Adding a 4th WC/post-qualifier game helped significantly to make the voting/Jury advancement ratios closer, and there is some room to tweak numbers. Seems potentially viable though if a few of the details are ironed out.

  24. ISO #274
    GOAT Tier Phighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sixers Territory
    Posts
    51,903
    Community
    XHF, MU
    AKA
    Caffrey
    Pronouns
    he/him/his/his/himself
    Gender
    Does the setup matter if the jury is still just a bunch of MU voices?

  25. ISO #275
    Wants It More FTFlush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    FarOut'sVille
    Posts
    9,366
    Timezone
    UTC-04:00
    Community
    Pokemon Showdown!
    AKA
    ForgotToFlush
    Gender
    but what about role madn-



  26. ISO #276
    GOAT Tier Zork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    10,075
    Timezone
    UTC-06:00
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFlush (#275)
    but what about role madn-


    I offered to host the following setup, but was told there isn't enough time to complete the game and get feedback before organizing the Championship:

    Mafia (mandatory assigned nightly factional kill except n2):
    x1 Arsonist | Cycles 1, 2
    x1 Arsonist | Cycles 2, 3
    x1 Goon | x1 Ninja


    Town:
    x1 Jack of All Trades | Tracker x9, Doctor x9, Motion Detector x9
    x1 Firefighter | Cycles 1, 2, 3
    x1 Innocent Child | Cycle 3
    x9 Vanilla

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Keyboard Shortcuts

about us
Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

We hope you stick around!
Role of the Day
Alignment Cop

The Alignment Cop may investigate a player at night and learn that player's alignment.