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Thread: Modified Cop 13er

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    Post Modified Cop 13er

    Modified Cop 13er

    This 48/24 mostly automated game starts Mon Jun 1 at 9am ET; EOD is also at 9am ET. This game has a higher standard of required participation than normal. By posting "in," you agree to meet this standard. Please "in" only if you have a history of playing games with minimal subbing out.
    The Mafia may not chat until the first morning after the second Goon dies, after which the last two may chat privately 24/7.
    x1 Goon A - knows only the identity of Goon B
    x1 Goon B - knows only the identity of Goon C
    x1 Goon C - knows only the identity of Goon D
    x1 Goon D - knows only the identity of Goon A
    x8 Vanilla
    x1 Alignment Cop with a random Town result n0
    • The Town must lynch (ties randed); the Town wins by eliminating the Mafia.
    • The Mafia win upon achieving parity with the Town.
    • If after d1 at least 2/3 of the living players are voting to lynch a player at any participation checkpoint, the day ends (super-maj). If this happens at 36 hours before EOD, night begins 36 hours early and lasts 36 hours. If this happens at 24 hours before EOD, night begins 24 hours early and lasts 24 hours. If this happens at 12 hours before EOD, night begins 12 hours early and lasts 36 hours. If this happens at 4 hours before EOD, night begins 4 hours early and lasts 28 hours.
    • Until the last two Mafia are joined in 24/7 chat, each Mafioso must submit a list nightly by 2 hours before SOD containing the names of every living player other than themselves and the Goon whose identity they know. The bottom name on that list receives 1 point. Each name higher on the list receives an additional point. For example, the top name on a list of 10 names would receive 10 points. The player receiving the most points is the factional kill (ties randed), even if Mafia. Failure to submit a list timely and with the proper number of players results in a random list being generated.
    • Once the last two Mafia are joined in 24/7 chat, the Mafia must submit a factional kill nightly by 2 hours before SOD.
    • The full role flips at death; however, a Mafioso flips simply as "Goon," not "Goon A," for example.
    Standard of participation - A post is defined as one that is substantive* and contains neither a vote nor an unvote. Each checkpoint must be met daily; the checkpoints are as follows:
    --3 posts by 36 hours before EOD (not applicable d1),
    --6 posts by 24 hours before EOD,
    --12 posts by 12 hours before EOD, and
    --18 posts by 4 hours before EOD.

    *Examples of posts that are not substantive include but are not limited to:
    --posting about posting
    --posting about IRL stuff
    --repeating information that is otherwise easily discernable (e.g., "John is voting Mary, hmmm.")
    --posting that one is reading, catching up, or will be back later
    --EBWOPs
    --fluff (such as lolcats, gifs galore, etc.)
    --posts that substantially repeat content already posted

    No unouted alts, please:
    1. TripleHaven
    2. FTFlush
    3. Transcend
    4. Michelle
    5. Ciderhead
    6. Abraxas
    7. Sirius9121
    8. Lollipopz
    9. evaaaa
    10. Alison
    11. Haze with a Z
    12. Mantichora
    13. SirDerpsAlot

    Reserves/Subs:
    1. Marshal
    2. Thunal33
    3. Spartan057
    Last edited by Zork; May 30th, 2020 at 08:39 AM.

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    Bandwagoner newton_scamander's Avatar
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    Soul Reader TripleHaven's Avatar
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    @Zork
    is multiballing with the lilo and stitch mash allowed or no

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    Soul Reader TripleHaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#3)
    @Zork
    is multiballing with the lilo and stitch mash allowed or no
    *multitabbing
    u get what i mean

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    The CEO Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Game is manual but tagged as automated?

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    The CEO Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Game contains:
    - "super maj"
    - wolves not knowing who the other wolves are
    - wolves that are allowed to NK other wolves
    - 4 wolves in a 13er
    - oppressive participation requirements


    And still it already has 2 interested parties.

    Sometimes i wonder why we even review setups

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    Soul Reader TripleHaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#6)
    Game contains:
    - "super maj"
    - wolves not knowing who the other wolves are
    - wolves that are allowed to NK other wolves
    - 4 wolves in a 13er
    - oppressive participation requirements


    And still it already has 2 interested parties.

    Sometimes i wonder why we even review setups
    LOL I just wanna rand mafia damnit!
    also 18 posts a dayphase aint bad LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#3)
    @Zork
    is multiballing with the lilo and stitch mash allowed or no
    I don't judge people's lifestyles, you can ball all you want lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#4)
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#3)
    @Zork
    is multiballing with the lilo and stitch mash allowed or no
    *multitabbing
    u get what i mean
    of course, just stay on top of the posting requirements and you'll be fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#5)
    Game is manual but tagged as automated?
    It's mostly automated, but I will post the game thread in the manual section for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#6)
    Game contains:
    - "super maj"
    - wolves not knowing who the other wolves are
    - wolves that are allowed to NK other wolves
    - 4 wolves in a 13er
    - oppressive participation requirements


    And still it already has 2 interested parties.

    Sometimes i wonder why we even review setups
    Well, super maj is same as regular maj it's just a 2/3 requirement instead of a simple majority. There is precedent in the U.S. system of government whereby whenever 2/3 of each of the two houses of Congress agree on something, the president is a powerless person just standing by at that point.

    You may be old enough to remember the super old days on 2+2 when the players were supposed to call out "it is night do not post" when a majority was reached at any time; now, they simply check the vote total at 4 distinct times, which coincide with the participation checkpoints. If 2/3 of the living players are voting for the same person, day ends then and there (maj).

    Each wolf knows half of his or her team.

    Each wolf's "red peek," if you will, themselves knows another 1/4 of the team. So that's indirect knowledge of 3/4 of the team right there. It's almost like 3 normal wolves with a fourth wolf who is both lost and recluse at the same time!

    Let's say you are Goon A. You know half the team directly--you and Goon B. It's like being one of two cops in a game where you know who the other cop is, so you can key off their read to determine the identity of Goon C. Finally, you can get a sense of who likes you, because that would be Goon D, who also happens to be liked by Goon your peek likes. So it's all very inter-connected. And the beauty of it is that if taken too far, it can be exploited by Town to lynch within the pool of folks who seem a little too knowledgeable and/or comfortable. The cop could get caught up in this.

    The Mafia is not allowed to put any Goons whose identity they know (themselves and their peek) on their factional vote/list submission. This means that the Goons gravitate toward having fewer votes total than the Town because none of the Townfolk are exempt from being on any of the Goons' lists. And this situation exists only until the morning after exactly half the Mafia remain. So having a Goon succumb to the factional kill is unlikely, but there is a reasonable possibility it could happen particularly because the Goons may misread a player as a too-knowledgeable Cop when in fact they are a too-knowledgeable Goon. This risk is well-compensated, probably excessively so, by the standard ratio of 10:3 being adjusted massively to 9:4, as you point out. I am concerned the setup may be wolf-sided. But the challenge for Town is to keep their Cop well-hidden for a long time and capitalize on the Mafia's semi-ignorance and inability to discuss matters privately, and--if they can pull it off--engineer a factional kill onto scum in addition to the usual task of lynching scum. And it will be harder to hide among 13 when there are 4 baddies lurking about, posting wolfy of course.

    Also if any participation requirement ending in "teen" is considered "oppressive," then you and I just have radically different senses of reasonable expectations. While it's not accurate to say that back in the old days everyone posted a $#@!-ton, it is accurate to say that the average number of posts per player per game was probably higher more than a decade ago than it is now in the advent of playing by phone so widespread in contrast with everyone being a keyboard warrior back in the day when you sat down and played Mafia as your exclusive activity as opposed to playing while you live your life as is the case in many instances now.

    You have a point that there are a lot of unusual mechanics, which is why I think it's 50/50 whether this fills. I certainly don't think a 17er or a 21er would fly with these mechanics, especially with the robust, healthy marketplace of alternative games available on this site. That's why it's a 13er.

    And look, it's attracting those who appreciate the greater-than-usual chance to rand Mafia. There are a ton of players who only like randing Mafia. I am one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#6)
    Game contains:
    - "super maj"
    - wolves not knowing who the other wolves are
    - wolves that are allowed to NK other wolves
    - 4 wolves in a 13er
    - oppressive participation requirements


    And still it already has 2 interested parties.

    Sometimes i wonder why we even review setups
    LOL I just wanna rand mafia damnit!
    also 18 posts a dayphase aint bad LOL
    Thank you. Let me know if you want to "in."
    Last edited by Zork; May 20th, 2020 at 12:07 PM.

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    Bandwagoner newton_scamander's Avatar
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    lol ok

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    The req. are opressive because you don't give at least 24 hours for everyone to post. Timezones exist, y'know.

    Also, try making 3 actual content posts within 12 hours of a game's start, where you have next to nothing to work with.

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    Soul Reader TripleHaven's Avatar
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    /in but I don't think there's much interest so it might not run anyways

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    Soul Reader TripleHaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake The Wolf (#11)
    The req. are opressive because you don't give at least 24 hours for everyone to post. Timezones exist, y'know.

    Also, try making 3 actual content posts within 12 hours of a game's start, where you have next to nothing to work with.
    how do you think people play 12/12 games

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    in

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    Sounds interesting, I'm /in

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    Apoc has 40k posts and still doesnt wanna try new types of setups? Ok then

    /in

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake The Wolf (#11)
    The req. are opressive because you don't give at least 24 hours for everyone to post. Timezones exist, y'know.

    Also, try making 3 actual content posts within 12 hours of a game's start, where you have next to nothing to work with.
    Your point is well-taken. The first 12 hours checkpoint is hereby waived on day 1 only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#17)
    Sounds interesting, I'm /in
    You drink Cider, and you know things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#18)
    Apoc has 40k posts and still doesnt wanna try new types of setups? Ok then

    /in
    I wouldn't say that about Apoc. He has tried just about everything already. It's OK to like what you like. These mechanics are just too far out for him, probably. It's OK.

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    Bandwagoner Ciderhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#20)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#17)
    Sounds interesting, I'm /in
    You drink Cider, and you know things.
    Literally had a poster in my room at uni with that exact quote 😁

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    Hi Zork, I am potentially interested in this game, but I have a few questions for you!

    1) I respectfully must inquire as to why the end of day phase is at 9:00 in the morning? I regret to inform you that this may result in some problematic activity issues near the end of the day phase. I know you are a host of immaculate standards, and therefore would certainly take the end of day time into consideration, and this has to just be an oversight, as the end of day times will be problematic for a large portion of your possible playerbase for this game to fill.

    2) I must admit to some mild apprehension about the aspect of this setup that means the wolves are unaware of each other. Mafia, at the core of the game we play so earnestly, is about the uninformed majority versus the informed minority. This highly original, but potentially problematic tweak to that formula, means that the setup is the uninformed versus the uninformed, and I fear that's going to result in the game not actually feeling like Mafia. I trust that a host with your sufficient creativity can find a way to work around this flaw, so that the game has more appeal, and possibly fills.

    3) The mild apprehension that crosses my brow in the previous question is multiplied elevenfold when my eyes happen upon the mechanics subsection. My fear is that the players that sign up for this game will not have the requisite open-mindedness required to fully comprehend the mechanics you have so elegantly crafted. There is also the concern that mafioso turning their gun upon each other may, in fact, lessen the enjoyment that players could have in a game, as your teammates are your friends, and the emotional toll could be truly devastating. I cannot in good conscience advocate the murder of your friends in the night, as that is diametrically opposed to the guiding principles of Mafia, which I fear in your haste to bring your creative vision to your eager player base, you have lost sight of slightly - that is, that mafia is a game between an uninformed, and informed faction.

    4) I must say that I admire the intent behind your stringent participation standards. However, I fear that the asynchronous nature of forum mafia is inherently problematic in terms of dictating precisely when a player must participate. Players must have the ability to play on their own terms, as that is an unalienable tenant of freedom, which I must assume you are a proponent of, being a proud Australian such as myself. May I respectfully offer a compromise of raising the minimum requirements, instead, so that sufficient activity is still mustered, but it occurs in more organic fashion, increasing enjoyment of the players exponentially. May I recommend a nice, round number, that is larger than 18, but easier for the average player to recall off the top of their head?

    5) I do rather approve of the manner in which you describe posts that are in no way substantive, as the removal of such tosh drastically increases the quality of mafia games. Your initiative in such a manner is well received, and I hope you continue to adhere to the guiding principles of ensuring that game content is actual game content.
    Last edited by SebastainMatthews; May 24th, 2020 at 06:52 AM.

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    I'm sick today. Will respond to everything tomorrow probably.

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    Doesn't matter if I'm not around for EOD right?
    Last edited by Haze with a Z; May 24th, 2020 at 11:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haze with a Z (#29)
    /in

    Doesn't matter if I'm not around for EOD right?
    Correct, you can get your substantive non-voting posts in whenever it suits you within the minimum guidelines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastainMatthews (#27)
    Hi Zork, I am potentially interested in this game, but I have a few questions for you!

    1) I respectfully must inquire as to why the end of day phase is at 9:00 in the morning? I regret to inform you that this may result in some problematic activity issues near the end of the day phase. I know you are a host of immaculate standards, and therefore would certainly take the end of day time into consideration, and this has to just be an oversight, as the end of day times will be problematic for a large portion of your possible playerbase for this game to fill.
    I always run 36/12 so I'm experimenting with 48/24 to see how it helps with substantive posting, which I always appreciate seeing from the players in my games. Games on here and 2+2 and other sites usually start at 7, 8, or 9am ET, so a 48/24 schedule would necessarily mean that EOD falls at the same time. Folks should be awake for that across most of the globe. Americans who sleep in, especially West Coasters, probably not so much. Eastern Europeans have had to adopt to typical EODs for years, so it's OK by me to spread that unavoidable load around a bit.

    Thank you for thinking I have immaculate standards. I really do try, because I used to be a really crappy host. But I worked really hard to improve and keep everything together to give everyone a fun experience. I still fall on my face--the last game I ran was not enjoyed very much. It was my first bastard game, and I went overboard on the bastardity, if you will. So I'm definitely sticking to my wheelhouse going forward, which is open, creative rolesets that usually are PR-heavy but not always, as is the case with this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastainMatthews (#27)
    2) I must admit to some mild apprehension about the aspect of this setup that means the wolves are unaware of each other. Mafia, at the core of the game we play so earnestly, is about the uninformed majority versus the informed minority. This highly original, but potentially problematic tweak to that formula, means that the setup is the uninformed versus the uninformed, and I fear that's going to result in the game not actually feeling like Mafia. I trust that a host with your sufficient creativity can find a way to work around this flaw, so that the game has more appeal, and possibly fills.

    3) The mild apprehension that crosses my brow in the previous question is multiplied elevenfold when my eyes happen upon the mechanics subsection. My fear is that the players that sign up for this game will not have the requisite open-mindedness required to fully comprehend the mechanics you have so elegantly crafted. There is also the concern that mafioso turning their gun upon each other may, in fact, lessen the enjoyment that players could have in a game, as your teammates are your friends, and the emotional toll could be truly devastating. I cannot in good conscience advocate the murder of your friends in the night, as that is diametrically opposed to the guiding principles of Mafia, which I fear in your haste to bring your creative vision to your eager player base, you have lost sight of slightly - that is, that mafia is a game between an uninformed, and informed faction.
    I kind of answered this for the most part in an earlier post in this thread. The gist of it is that each of the 4 goons knows half the team, and that the other half is divided between a goon who is known by someone you know and a goon who knows that you are a goon. So you can pick up tells of who the team is by paying attention to who is hard town reading you and who is your town-read town-reading. It's still a mostly informed minority, having to exercise under-used gray matter (apologies to Hercule Poirot) to get the total picture.

    Further reducing the risk of mafia-on-mafia violence is the fact that Goons are not eligible to be given any points by themselves and the one who knows they are a Goon. The Town do not have any such protection. And even if a Goon gets lynched, this risk is balanced by the structure being 9:4 instead of the far more standard 10:3. The incomplete information and risk of Mafia night-killing Mafia are balanced by this extremely substantial numbers variation from 10:3 to 9:4.

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastainMatthews (#27)
    4) I must say that I admire the intent behind your stringent participation standards. However, I fear that the asynchronous nature of forum mafia is inherently problematic in terms of dictating precisely when a player must participate. Players must have the ability to play on their own terms, as that is an unalienable tenant of freedom, which I must assume you are a proponent of, being a proud Australian such as myself. May I respectfully offer a compromise of raising the minimum requirements, instead, so that sufficient activity is still mustered, but it occurs in more organic fashion, increasing enjoyment of the players exponentially. May I recommend a nice, round number, that is larger than 18, but easier for the average player to recall off the top of their head?
    Well it would just be easier to get the 18 posts out of the way well before you are up against any kind of deadline, posting on your terms on a schedule convenient to you and your time zone. By "you" I mean any player. Freedom is important to me, too. I do not mean to insist that players must post in each of the four 12-hour sections of the 48-hour day. I simply indicate those as checkpoints by which the decision whether to sub a player out can be made objectively. I never did understand why players seem to hold other players accountable for "slanking" when really it's just that they're sleeping or at work. I guess some of it is just a convenient excuse for Mafia to latch onto as they push a mislynch, especially when trying to maj one who is AFK for NAI reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastainMatthews (#27)
    5) I do rather approve of the manner in which you describe posts that are in no way substantive, as the removal of such tosh drastically increases the quality of mafia games. Your initiative in such a manner is well received, and I hope you continue to adhere to the guiding principles of ensuring that game content is actual game content.
    I appreciate your agreement with me. I don't mean to imply that those kinds of posts are unwelcome in my game. I've done all those things. Those posts are perfectly fine. The ONLY caveat is that they do not count to the magic number. Post substantively enough, and you can litter the thread with additional fluff to your heart's content as long as you don't go to an extreme that annoys everybody.

    Outstanding conversation-starter. I wonder who you are. Un-outed alts are discouraged but not prohibited.

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    Going to have to /out aorry

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    Reserve/sub please!

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    Actually, could I have senorsalts spot if it’s possible since he quit ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantichora (#31)
    In
    why

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    The CEO Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    7, 8 & 9AM EST are standard times for 12 & 36 Hour games

    I think if you go to 24 or 48 (or any multiple of 24 really) it makes sense to start the game in the evening

    You get to start AND finish day when most people are free (not at work/school/etc)

  39. ISO #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#38)
    7, 8 & 9AM EST are standard times for 12 & 36 Hour games

    I think if you go to 24 or 48 (or any multiple of 24 really) it makes sense to start the game in the evening

    You get to start AND finish day when most people are free (not at work/school/etc)
    I mean most people Probabaly aren’t in school atm

  40. ISO #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#38)
    7, 8 & 9AM EST are standard times for 12 & 36 Hour games

    I think if you go to 24 or 48 (or any multiple of 24 really) it makes sense to start the game in the evening

    You get to start AND finish day when most people are free (not at work/school/etc)
    Yeah but then you go from a situation at 9am ET where the vast majority of the players of MU are awake to a situation at 8pm ET (or even 7pm ET) where its the wee hours of the morning for a substantial chunk of folks.

    Plus, you don't need to be awake at SOD/EOD to do well in Mafia, anyway. Your vote is your vote. But if we accept the premise that it's better to be around at EOD than not to be around at EOD, 9am ET is the better option.

    @El-ahrairah
    @Apoc

  41. ISO #41
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    Maybe 2pm ET where it's night (but not too late) for Europe-Asia, and even the West Coasters are bright eyed and caffeinated by then.

    What do folks think?

  42. ISO #42
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    Beginning day 2, I will announce the following at the start of each day:

    Example for d2 (Thu Jun 4 shortly after 9am ET):

    If the vote count as of the last post before Thu Jun 4 at 9:01pm ET, Fri Jun 5 at 9:01am ET, Fri Jun 5 at 9:01pm ET, or Sat Jun 6 at 5:01am ET contains 8 or more votes for a particular player, it is the duty of each player to post "Majority night; do not post" if neither a player nor I have already posted that. I will close the thread as soon as possible thereafter.

  43. ISO #43
    The CEO Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirDerpsAlot (#39)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#38)
    7, 8 & 9AM EST are standard times for 12 & 36 Hour games

    I think if you go to 24 or 48 (or any multiple of 24 really) it makes sense to start the game in the evening

    You get to start AND finish day when most people are free (not at work/school/etc)
    I mean most people Probabaly aren’t in school atm
    true, true

  44. ISO #44
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    The beauty of this setup is that just as a Cop is an exception to the rule of Town being an uninformed majority, giving each Goon only half the puzzle pieces is an exception to the rule of Mafia being an informed minority, which is more than made up for by having an otherwise town-crushing 9:4 ratio from the get-go. And when half the Mafia remain, they are united into a normal situation of full information.

    Also, everyone, please send me a message on Discord ONLY if your Discord handle is not immediately obvious. This is so I have an additional tool by which to reach you in the event that your substitution is imminent for under-participation.
    Last edited by Zork; May 26th, 2020 at 04:40 PM.

  45. ISO #45
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    I should call this setup "Forced Bussing." Do you see why?

  46. ISO #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#45)
    I should call this setup "Forced Bussing." Do you see why?
    Forced?

    You don’t have to force me too bus smh

  47. ISO #47
    Thread Analyst Marshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirDerpsAlot (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork (#45)
    I should call this setup "Forced Bussing." Do you see why?
    Forced?

    You don’t have to force me too bus smh
    can confirm

    also

    /sub

  48. ISO #48
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    4 days til go time

    #excite

    could use one more reserve/sub

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    /sub

  50. ISO #50
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    If you would like to start early, thank this post.

    The game will begin on time or when all 13 of you have thanked this post, whichever is first.

    This is a 48/24 cycle game.

    @TripleHaven
    @FTFlush
    @Transcend
    @Michelle
    @Ciderhead
    @Abraxas
    @Sirius9121
    @Lollipopz
    @evaaaa
    @Alison
    @Haze with a Z
    @Mantichora
    @SirDerpsAlot

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Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

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Role of the Day
Mugger

The Mugger is a mafia-aligned player that will gain the ability of any player killed by the mafia if they are the one carrying out the kill. The gained ability can be used only once by the Mugger on any future night, but the Mugger cannot kill and use a gained ability on the same night.