Unpopular mafia opinions?

[Alison]

if you're tunnelled in one game, it's the tunneller's fault. if you're tunnelled in every game, it's your fault. bad tunnels happen, I've been on both sides of them. but at the end of the day, unless every game you play contains a number of horrible players who are happy to execute you for doing nothing wrong (in which case you should just play somewhere else), if you genuinely are consistently wrongly tunnelled game after game you should consider the possibility that you are just doing something scummy.

someone brought up a point earlier that it's unfair to expect people to appear townie because they don't have time to try to understand what the players in the thread find townie while also doing solving. Here's the thing - if you've realized that being all solve and no theater gets you executed every time, then all the solving you are doing is useless if nobody is going to listen to your reads because you are acting in a way that makes them distrust you. invest some of that time and energy into figuring out the social dynamics of this particular game so you can figure out how to get into the good books of the other townies and narrow their POE for them. I know you can do it because you do it as scum. Also, the things that people find townie don't really change that much from site to site and game to game. Yes, weird metas and site cultures exist, but a lot of the time, if you just make an effort to engage with people (which you should be doing anyway for your solving), say things that are logical and well-reasoned, and keep your tone open and honest, you will at the very least not be a perennial mis-execute Day 1.

[sheepsaysmeep]

if you're tunnelled in one game, it's the tunneller's fault. if you're tunnelled in every game, it's your fault. bad tunnels happen, I've been on both sides of them. but at the end of the day, unless every game you play contains a number of horrible players who are happy to execute you for doing nothing wrong (in which case you should just play somewhere else), if you genuinely are consistently wrongly tunnelled game after game you should consider the possibility that you are just doing something scummy.

someone brought up a point earlier that it's unfair to expect people to appear townie because they don't have time to try to understand what the players in the thread find townie while also doing solving. Here's the thing - if you've realized that being all solve and no theater gets you executed every time, then all the solving you are doing is useless if nobody is going to listen to your reads because you are acting in a way that makes them distrust you. invest some of that time and energy into figuring out the social dynamics of this particular game so you can figure out how to get into the good books of the other townies and narrow their POE for them. I know you can do it because you do it as scum. Also, the things that people find townie don't really change that much from site to site and game to game. Yes, weird metas and site cultures exist, but a lot of the time, if you just make an effort to engage with people (which you should be doing anyway for your solving), say things that are logical and well-reasoned, and keep your tone open and honest, you will at the very least not be a perennial mis-execute Day 1.

tunnel me once, shame on you

tunnel me twice, shame on me

[sheepsaysmeep]

when i get misyeeted it's protown because of the info

[Captain Crunch]

if you're tunnelled in one game, it's the tunneller's fault. if you're tunnelled in every game, it's your fault. bad tunnels happen, I've been on both sides of them. but at the end of the day, unless every game you play contains a number of horrible players who are happy to execute you for doing nothing wrong (in which case you should just play somewhere else), if you genuinely are consistently wrongly tunnelled game after game you should consider the possibility that you are just doing something scummy.

someone brought up a point earlier that it's unfair to expect people to appear townie because they don't have time to try to understand what the players in the thread find townie while also doing solving. Here's the thing - if you've realized that being all solve and no theater gets you executed every time, then all the solving you are doing is useless if nobody is going to listen to your reads because you are acting in a way that makes them distrust you. invest some of that time and energy into figuring out the social dynamics of this particular game so you can figure out how to get into the good books of the other townies and narrow their POE for them. I know you can do it because you do it as scum. Also, the things that people find townie don't really change that much from site to site and game to game. Yes, weird metas and site cultures exist, but a lot of the time, if you just make an effort to engage with people (which you should be doing anyway for your solving), say things that are logical and well-reasoned, and keep your tone open and honest, you will at the very least not be a perennial mis-execute Day 1.

tunnel me once, shame on you

tunnel me twice, shame on me

Tunnel me once, shame on you.
Tunnel me twice and you just dug a moat!

[Mantichora]

It's correct to lynch cop claims d1 in small open setups without protectives.

[KnightsofCydonia]

Swinginess and fun aren't mutually exclusive. If it were the case, variable setups wouldn't exist.

[Whitewater Hysteria]

If everything is swingy, nothing is

[TripleHaven]

bump

[sheepsaysmeep]

bump

thats a pretty popular opinion iyam

[Dragon D. Luffy]

99% of the times a person says they are too busy irl to post they are telling the truth and saying they are lieing about it is very rude.

Find a better scumtell to use than post counts.

[remember]

In Mountainous, votes on d2-dx should all be decided based solely on information from d1. I thought long and hard about that one.

[Shad]

[Sloonei]

Reads are overrated.

[Guillotina]

Meta should be considered OGI

OMGUS is not always OMGUS

If Meta is not OGI then it should always be considered NAI.

[silmarils]

Meta should be considered OGI

OMGUS is not always OMGUS

If Meta is not OGI then it should always be considered NAI.

damn thats a hot take

i find meta in that weird zone where its anti-fun to use it but sometimes cripping to town when its banned

[Guillotina]

Meta should be considered OGI

OMGUS is not always OMGUS

If Meta is not OGI then it should always be considered NAI.

damn thats a hot take

i find meta in that weird zone where its anti-fun to use it but sometimes cripping to town when its banned

Meta is a double edged sword placed on a thin line between fair play and angle shooting.

Also, meta can be faked and people also build meta based on DVC and Mafia chats after the game ends. I'm always playing (even after I'm dead) to protect my future games, and I sometimes lie about strategies and calls in DVC to mislead players I play on a regular basis, so they make the wrong calls based on what they think they know about how I think and behave when they play with me again. This can be both anti-town and anti-wolf before a game even starts.

So how is meta an acceptable tool when it can be manipulated when games are over?

[hollowkatt]

I'll add to what Guillotina is saying. Meta is dumb. Stop using it.
My personal meta can and does shift to fit the needs of the current game regardless of my alignment.

Likewise, what was valid in a prior game is specific to that game. Personal meta is code for "I have baises for or against this person".

When players try to meta read others what they're really doing is abdicating responsibility for attempting to read the player in the current game.

What players ought to be looking at is what I call werewolf meta. What does the average wolf do "here". What does the average town do "here". Those are useful things I think.

Personal Meta shouldn't come into play unless you're at an absolute NULL on someone and you need to make a read in one direction or another, or if you are attempting to lay a trap for someone.

[GeneralHankerchief]

i should be allowed to use meta against anyone i wish

nobody should be allowed to use meta against me

[Sloonei]

Discounting meta entirely is silly.

That said, I feel like “meta” comes with different connotations everywhere I go based on what the individual or communal experience with its usage has been.

To me, applying “meta” to my read of a player just means taking into account the things I know about that player individually based on past experience. It does not dominate my strategy but it is given its place in my process, as with everything else. Ultimately the circumstances of the specific situation we’re in take precedent.

[Alice Liddell]

Hunting for powerwolves is nonsensical as most wolves basically play by getting as UTR as possible and prefer to let the village mislynch themselves to oblivion instead of getting their hands dirty.

"If they were a wolf they would be trying harder" is an extremely bad read and should never be used as wolves from time to time tend to not give a $%#! about the game so they don't bother trying.

Anyone who uses self-meta to towncase themselves should be hurled at the sun. For extra-spice self-meta is only one step away from trust-telling so I tend to look at people who overuses it in a very negative manner.

[Phighter]

Hunting for powerwolves is nonsensical as most wolves basically play by getting as UTR as possible and prefer to let the village mislynch themselves to oblivion instead of getting their hands dirty.

"If they were a wolf they would be trying harder" is an extremely bad read and should never be used as wolves from time to time tend to not give a $%#! about the game so they don't bother trying.

Anyone who uses self-meta to towncase themselves should be hurled at the sun. For extra-spice self-meta is only one step away from trust-telling so I tend to look at people who overuses it in a very negative manner.

I feel like you've never played a game against me

This is the type of thinking powerwolves feast on

[DoubtingThomas]

stop $%#!ing town reading people you like and disregarding the scum read on your friend's from people you don't like

[DoubtingThomas]

Meta should be considered OGI

OMGUS is not always OMGUS

If Meta is not OGI then it should always be considered NAI.

yes categorizing $%#! as OMGUS is often very wrong even though you may feel it is OMGUS. it should be a deleted acronym.

As for me, especially in a game with more than 10 people, I am not able to look at all 9 on an equal level in the early days of the game. So when someone is pushing me, that's when I finally get to look at that person and evaluate. When I come to the conclusion they are scummy, that is not OMGUS. Delete that acronym. It's a blasphemy in religious sense anyways.

[Shad]

Actually wanting to lynch someone because you feel their vote on you was emotionally triggered is quite silly, yes.

Accusing someone of OMGUS for the sake of producing a reaction is still a productive play.

When we talk about "meta", we're referring to judging the authenticity of a player's behavior based on previous experience, right? Isn't that the vast majority of gameplay regardless of pre-rand familiarity? I mean, a wolves always do x approach reduces to WIFOM absurdity, and wagononomics only yield gameable probabilities. The entire D1 village experience is an exercise in feeling each player out to get an idea for abnormalities relevant to how you predict they uniquely ought to behave. You could argue that the purest form of Werewolf is anonymous mountainous, but short of that, I don't know how anyone can draw a meaningful distinction between pre-rand and post-rand "meta". I can't just will away all prior memory of the field.

[Arapocalypse]

Technology should advance so that all mafia games can be played inside perfect vacuums untouchable from outside, where no petty physical concerns such as eating or sleeping or breathing have to be taken into account!!!!!!

There is no escape, only mafia!!!!!

[TripleHaven]

Dont know why thread was closed.

Godfathers (espesially in closed setups) should be considered bastard as the host actively lies to the cop about their green check.

[Salamander]

Technology should advance so that all mafia games can be played inside perfect vacuums untouchable from outside, where no petty physical concerns such as eating or sleeping or breathing have to be taken into account!!!!!!

There is no escape, only mafia!!!!!

yes!!

[Arapocalypse]

Reminder:

If you're going to post in this thread, make ultra, ultra sure that what you're talking about isn't referencing an ongoing game. And by "referencing", I mean, "a person in your game reads the comment you make and thinks to themselves that you're talking about the current game."

When in doubt, wait until the game's over to vent.

Following up the reminder: officially closing the thread, for those who are unable to follow the reminder!!!

Seconding the reminder to please ensure that discussion of games are relegated to the game and game-specific areas only, and nowhere else, as doing so otherwise can lead to unfortunate undesirable consequences such as getting stabbed!!