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Thread: [PLEASE CRITIQUE] Shooty Explodey Mass Death Game For Busy People (48+)

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    [PLEASE CRITIQUE] Shooty Explodey Mass Death Game For Busy People (48+)

    SHOOTY EXPLODEY MASS DEATH GAME FOR BUSY PEOPLE
    Greetings, fellow victims players of MafiaWolf and affiliated games!

    Ever wanted to play one of those shooty explodey mass death games that are so popular with the kids these days, but find yourself stymied by pesky things like "eating", "sleeping", and/or making sure you don't lose any job(s) you have? Never fear! SEMD Corp has designed a similar game especially for alive Humans on Earth to experience, with complexity and timescales tailored specifically to guarantee that all game-related deaths remain purely fictional – or your next of kin gets your funerary costs paid in full! It's a dynamite deal!


    Game Information
    Hosted By: Kaiveran
    Rand Date: Wednesday, 24 February 2021, 9:00 PM UTC–6:00
    Start Date: Thursday, 25 February 2021, 9:00 PM UTC–6:00
    Phase Length: 36-60 hour Days / 12 hour Nights
    Player Count: 48 minimum, but we can run with any player count above that!
    Setup Type: Semi-Open, Role Madness

    OOTC: Disallowed unless through specific channels approved in your Role PM.
    Post Restrictions:
    • Minimum 5 posts per day. Failure to meet this requirement may result in either force-replacement or an activity check PM, depending on your activity history and/or host discretion. 0-posting will always result in replacement, and a slot that 0-posts twice in a row will be modkilled.
    • Maximum 150 posts per day. Maximum is not lifted at any point prior to EoD, so use your time wisely.

    Action Limits: 1 per Night per player.
    Bastard Elements: 99.8% sure not, but still technically pending review.
    Events: Maybe.

    This is a Semi-Open Game. As such, all possible rolecards are listed below.
    • There are no roles in the game that are not listed here.
    • A role may be listed here and not be in the game.
    • There can be duplicates of any role.

    Wolf
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Wolf.

    Your factional abilities:
    • Kill (x[N/24]): At Night, you may choose a player to eliminate from the game. You may use this ability (up to N/24 times) per Night.
    • Doctor (x[N/48]): At Night, you may choose a player to protect from one kill. You may use this ability (up to N/48 times | only once) per Night. No agent of this action can target themselves.
    • Roleblocker (x[N/48]): At Night, you may block any active abilities taken by one player. You may use this ability (up to N/48 times | only once) per Night. No agent of this action can target themselves.
    • Illusionist (x[N/48]): At Night, you may choose one primary and one secondary target. Any role actions taken by the primary target will appear to originate from the secondary target. You may use this ability (up to N/48 times | only once) per Night. No agent of this action can make themselves the primary target.

    All factional abilities are assigned; while all of them can be used in the same night, they must all be used by different members of your faction (meaning that if there are ever less than TOTAL_ACTIONS Wolves, you must give up some actions.)

    Should the number of Wolves ever reach N/24 or lower, the Last Stand mechanic is activated, and the Wolf kills become untraceable.

    Your personal abilities:
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 20%


    Your win condition: You win when it is no longer mechanically possible for the Town to eliminate your faction, or when parity with town is achieved at the start or end of a Day phase.

    Night Bomb
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Night Bomb, aligned with the Town.

    Your personal abilities:
    • Nightkill Revenge: You will reflexively kill all players who successfully target you with a killing action at Night.
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 20%


    Your win condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

    Day Bomb
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Day Bomb, aligned with the Town.

    Your personal abilities:
    • Daykill Revenge: During the Day, you will reflexively kill any player who hits you with an In-Thread Attack (immediately), or who casts the majority elimination vote for you (when the elimination resolves).
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 20%


    Your win condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

    Vigilante + Blank Vigilante
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Vigilante, aligned with the Town.

    Your personal abilities:
    • Kill: At Night, you may choose a player to eliminate from the game.
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 50%


    NOTICE: there is a possibility that you are a Blank Vigilante. If this is the case, then your nightkill attempts will always fail, and your ITA Hit Rate is actually 0%.

    Your win condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

    Tracker
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Tracker, aligned with the Town.

    Your personal abilities:
    • Track: At Night, you may choose a player to learn whoever they targeted with an active ability (if any).
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 20%


    Your win condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

    Watcher
    Greetings from SEMD Corp! Your role in SEMDGFBP is Watcher, aligned with the Town.

    Your personal abilities:
    • Watch: At Night, you may choose a player to learn the names of anyone who targeted them with an active ability.
    • In-Thread Attacks: ITAs are active this game. During an ITA window, you may post any player's name enclosed in ITA tags (like this) to attempt to kill them.
      • Shot Count: 1 per Day
      • Hit Rate: 20%


    Your win condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

    During the Day, all players may vote on someone to eliminate as normal.

    Deadline Elim: Yes. Plurality rules will be in effect at deadline.
    Majority Elim: Deferred, but always active. A majority vote will immediately eliminate a player, but they will not flip (and not activate any on-death abilities they have) until a certain pre-determined time afterward. For more information, see Deadlines and General Schedule below.
    Locked Votes: Never.
    On Tied Vote: Eliminate first to final total.
    Vote to Sleep: Disabled.

    In-Thread Attacks, known as ITAs for short, are a means by which players can attempt to kill each other at certain pre-determined times during the Day phase, resolved using a Hit Rate parameter.

    To use an ITA, make a post containing a player's exact account name, surrounded by [ITA] tags, during an ITA window. Alternatively, you can click the ITA button in the post editor and select a name from the dropdown list.

    Players have 1 ITA shot per Day and a Hit Rate of 20%, unless otherwise specified in their Role PM.

    The total amount of ITA shots that can be taken per session is the nearest positive integer value to
    (N / 2) – 6.1
    where N is the number of players alive at the start of the session.

    According to the above rule, ITAs will end when there are 13 players or fewer remaining.

    ITAs will be resolved manually, and any shots on dead players will be refunded.

    :59 good, :00 bad for all deadlines.

    Day Phase (36-60h)

    The Day is divided into three "sessions".

    Session 1 (36 hours Day 1, 12 hours all subsequent days): Voting only.
    Session 2 (12 hours, or until shot quota reached): ITA Window. Any majority elim reached during this or the previous sessions will take place at the end of this session, sending the game to Night until the normally scheduled deadline.
    Session 3 (12 hours + Session 2 leftovers): Voting only. Any majority elim reached during this bloc will take effect at the normally scheduled end of Day.

    Day 1 is thus 60 hours long, and all subsequent Days are the usual 36 hours. All Days have a single, 12-hour ITA Window.

    Night Phase (12h)

    Nights will have a constant deadline of 12 hours.

    All Night Actions must be finalized at least one hour before EoN.

    THOSE WHO MAY SHOOT AND EXPLODE EACH OTHER
    PLAYERS:
    1) @Abcdef
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
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    9)
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    ...and perchance more?

    SUBS
    1) @Syn
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    Last edited by Kaiveran; February 23rd, 2021 at 05:22 AM. Reason: added Syn as sub

  2. ISO #2
    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Whoops – fixed erroneous dates! We are ready to go!

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    Soul Reader Syn's Avatar
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    I'm gonna go as /sub for now

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    Galaxy Brain Shad's Avatar
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    Not an in, but would I be correct to assume that the effects of all night actions apply only to the night they are used? (As opposed to cyclical)

  5. ISO #5
    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shad (#4)
    Not an in, but would I be correct to assume that the effects of all night actions apply only to the night they are used? (As opposed to cyclical)
    Correct – this isn't one of those games where ITAs can be stopped by Docs or RBs and such

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    Low Hanging Fruit
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    I wanna play!
    If there's gonna be a night during a Sunday, I'll PM you my choice of who I'll stab/explode on the day before.
    Is that okay, or should I just not act on Sundays? (Sunday my time)

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abcdef (#6)
    I wanna play!
    If there's gonna be a night during a Sunday, I'll PM you my choice of who I'll stab/explode on the day before.
    Is that okay, or should I just not act on Sundays? (Sunday my time)
    This is a-okay!

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    Low Hanging Fruit Featherine's Avatar
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    This sounds interesting, it will be my first time though. Is that a problem?

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Featherine (#8)
    This sounds interesting, it will be my first time though. Is that a problem?
    I mean, no, but it's incredibly unlikely the game will fill at this point. No problem if it does, though!

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Okay, my fellow MUers...I'm willing to look a failure in the face. I can't say I wasn't warned.

    Still, I was maybe expecting it to get at least halfway by now. For basically the ENTIRE SITE to look at this game for weeks and say "$%#! no" loud and clear, right up until the last day of originally scheduled signups, is indicative of a major deficiency on my part as a prospective host.

    So, this is an official CALL FOR CRITIQUE! Explain what specifically about this game turned you off signing up! What seemed like a bad idea/unfun time to you, and why? Do not pull any punches – you are welcome to call it utter dog$%#! as long as you explain why it's dog$%#!.


    As per a previous consultation with the staff, I will keep this thread open until Feb 26th.
    Last edited by Kaiveran; February 23rd, 2021 at 05:18 AM.

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    Soul Reader lendunistus's Avatar
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    a few mistakes you probably made:

    1. I personally don't have experience with these kinds of games, but i'd imagine that a 40+ player game with 36-60 hour day phases would be disliked by newcomers and regarded as absolute torture by people used to the site's meta. the general mash audience on MU is used to the 12 hour day phases. there's a reason why most mashes on MU have 12/12 phases. the audience you were targeting with this game just... doesn't exist here. I tried running a newbie game with 5d/2d day phases once and that thing wouldn't fill no matter what I tried.

    2. the upcoming throne mash II definitely stole a bit of the audience for this game. arapocalypse is regarded as a very good host by many and her games tend to fill quickly.

    3. mashing (haha nice pun) a normal game and a mash together just... isn't very appealing to many people. when you /in to a mash, you expect frantic $%#!fests with lots of death. when you /in to a normal game, you expect a slower game where you rely mostly on your instincts and knowledge to catch the wolves. putting these two together... it'd be jarring to say the least when one minute you're talking about why mr McWolf should be hanged and then the next second, the clearest townie gets shot out of nowhere by the "town hero". i'm not saying this doesn't exist in mashes, but mashes are usually filled with events and other crazy $%#! anyway. swapping between a normal game and a mash every 12 hours probably isn't very appealing.

    4. a post maximum of 150 might seem like a good idea, but this turns away people who tend to post a lot and do so often in mashes.

    also, setup remark: people might not in if they have a chance of being handed a role that is basically just a nerfed VT AND defeats the whole point of a "shooty shooty bang bang" game.

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    Soul Reader lendunistus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lendunistus (#11)
    also, setup remark: people might not in if they have a chance of being handed a role that is basically just a nerfed VT AND defeats the whole point of a "shooty shooty bang bang" game.
    i'm talking about the blank vigilante if that wasn't clear. you would expect to shooty shooty bang bang and getting a role that actively prevents you from doing said shooty shooty bang banging would defeat the point of a shooty shooty bang banging game and be unfun to say the least. (also, not being 100% truthful in a role PM is usually considered bastard here.)

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lendunistus (#11)
    a few mistakes you probably made:

    1. I personally don't have experience with these kinds of games, but i'd imagine that a 40+ player game with 36-60 hour day phases would be disliked by newcomers and regarded as absolute torture by people used to the site's meta. the general mash audience on MU is used to the 12 hour day phases. there's a reason why most mashes on MU have 12/12 phases. the audience you were targeting with this game just... doesn't exist here. I tried running a newbie game with 5d/2d day phases once and that thing wouldn't fill no matter what I tried.

    2. the upcoming throne mash II definitely stole a bit of the audience for this game. arapocalypse is regarded as a very good host by many and her games tend to fill quickly.

    3. mashing (haha nice pun) a normal game and a mash together just... isn't very appealing to many people. when you /in to a mash, you expect frantic $%#!fests with lots of death. when you /in to a normal game, you expect a slower game where you rely mostly on your instincts and knowledge to catch the wolves. putting these two together... it'd be jarring to say the least when one minute you're talking about why mr McWolf should be hanged and then the next second, the clearest townie gets shot out of nowhere by the "town hero". i'm not saying this doesn't exist in mashes, but mashes are usually filled with events and other crazy $%#! anyway. swapping between a normal game and a mash every 12 hours probably isn't very appealing.

    4. a post maximum of 150 might seem like a good idea, but this turns away people who tend to post a lot and do so often in mashes.

    also, setup remark: people might not in if they have a chance of being handed a role that is basically just a nerfed VT AND defeats the whole point of a "shooty shooty bang bang" game.
    As to 1, it actually has happened a few times, but only for well-known hosts (as 2 specifies), which I am spectacularly NOT. I have run exactly one game that was not off the shelf. Sure, this game would have been better suited to a 12/12...but I literally can't run 12/12s, unless I can get a co-host, and there doesn't seem to be any process in place on MU for co-hosting.

    (I really dislike the idea of any phase shorter than 24 hours, anyhow – I can't even keep up with 12/12s in spec.)

    WRT 3, I sorta understand that, but I'm sad that my concessions to sanity seem unrecognized.

    The longer deadlines, simplicity of the format, and even the unique "shot quota" approach to ITAs was designed to allow cooler heads to prevail. I wanted to give space for actual discussion to breathe – although the 150-post limit arguably runs counter to this as per 4, it's the Champs post limit and I figured it wouldn't be viewed as too onerous.

    I also wanted promote the use of ITAs in a more deliberate strategic manner, rather than lols and japes and hipshots as in the typical mash...but if the culture of the MU actively relishes the latter and disdains the former, it's gonna be a long ice-skate uphill to get people to try something even remotely different. (Not that I feel I have a choice - the places/cultures that would have appreciated the games I want to run are very non-consensually defunct, so suffice it to say I have a bit of a sore spot.)

    Quote Originally Posted by lendunistus (#11)
    also, setup remark: people might not in if they have a chance of being handed a role that is basically just a nerfed VT AND defeats the whole point of a "shooty shooty bang bang" game.

    i'm talking about the blank vigilante if that wasn't clear. you would expect to shooty shooty bang bang and getting a role that actively prevents you from doing said shooty shooty bang banging would defeat the point of a shooty shooty bang banging game and be unfun to say the least. (also, not being 100% truthful in a role PM is usually considered bastard here.)
    Yeah, the 0% ITA rate for Blank Vidge is by far the worst idea here, in hindsight. At least, I should have kept it at 20% or even 50%, and only affected Night shots (more of a "Nightblind Vigilante", perhaps). A more thorough solution might have eliminated the variant entirely, and recalculated the role distribution behind the scenes to rebalance things. But this setup sat literally months with nobody even offering to review it. Even contacting staff directly to review a change of deadlines before signups were due to be posted didn't bear fruit – this game is only here on a provisional basis, p. much

    Thanks a lot for your input, @lendunistus
    Last edited by Kaiveran; February 23rd, 2021 at 07:24 AM.

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    Wants It More Thunal33's Avatar
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    Honestly I feel like this game would take more out of people and be more taxing than a mash because of the phases. When I sign up for a mash I sign up for a few days of investing a lot of time into mafia and always having to keep an eye on the thread. Signing up for longer periods than that isn't good for busy people and I wouldn't want to sign up for that much of a potential time commitment. I'd say one fix might be to lower the player count so the game demands significantly less commitment than a mash (30ish players maybe?) but ITAs still make sense.

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    Wants It More Thunal33's Avatar
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    Also I agree that the blank vigilante role is unfun and probably shouldn't be included.

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    I make poor decisions when drunk Viggorous's Avatar
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    I don't have thoughts about the setup because I stopped reading after 36-60 hour days as it is simply a deal breaker for me (and many other mash regulars I reckon) in a game this size.

    I very much doubt there's any setup where I'd sign up for such a big game with long days, and glossing over the setup, there's nothing there that would keep me from signing up, it's all about that day length.

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    Wants It More PunchyTheCat's Avatar
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    the low postcap and not lifting it was a dealbreaker to me

    and seconding the day phases, 36 hours was a little much in bastard fiesta, no way i'd do a 60 hour day 1

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    Galaxy Brain Shad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#10)
    Okay, my fellow MUers...I'm willing to look a failure in the face. I can't say I wasn't warned.

    Still, I was maybe expecting it to get at least halfway by now. For basically the ENTIRE SITE to look at this game for weeks and say "$%#! no" loud and clear, right up until the last day of originally scheduled signups, is indicative of a major deficiency on my part as a prospective host.

    So, this is an official CALL FOR CRITIQUE! Explain what specifically about this game turned you off signing up! What seemed like a bad idea/unfun time to you, and why? Do not pull any punches – you are welcome to call it utter dog$%#! as long as you explain why it's dog$%#!.


    As per a previous consultation with the staff, I will keep this thread open until Feb 26th.
    I can speculate as to why others might have avoided it, but speaking as someone who plays mashes and turbos fairly exclusively, it really just boils down to phase length for me personally. Not oh I couldn't enjoy this, just there is no way I could possibly find the time to play it in a manner I enjoy.

    Mashes might look intimidating at a glance, but I find them very liberating in terms of getting to set my own level of investment. The objective impossibility of processing all information in the thread nullifies the trend in 'normal' games of holding people to account for the time they don't spend drooling over a thread. People don't get pressured into playing at the same level every time because an individual slot is way more expendable, events are moving too quickly for any one person to be in the spotlight for long, and there's a shared understanding that only a small handful of players are keeping up with everything that's going on. Longer phases chip away at that. I don't want to ever feel obligated to play Werewolf. That's when it stops being fun.

    I think your set-up is fine personally. I could talk about why the standard 12/12 ITA system creates a very exciting dynamic, but most games follow that format anyway. Mixing it up and seeing what someone from outside of the box brings to the table could be fun. I do think your lack of name recognition and advertising was an inhibiting factor. Mashes are extremely demanding on the host, and without someone on Discord pushing it and hyping it and establishing that they have a clear game plan, first impression of this could be a disaster might linger.

  19. ISO #19
    Wants It More Marshal's Avatar
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    was not going to join a game this size with like 36-60 hour days

  20. ISO #20
    Wants It More Marshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#19)
    was not going to join a game this size with like 36-60 hour days
    and that coupled with a postcap made it out of the question

    People join these large games for a variety of reasons, but a lot of people enjoy incredibly fast-paced action, and I am one of those.

    Looked less like the exhilirating rush of a mash when my post number would be limited to an average of 50 posts per 12 hours max.

    I don't take issues with setup, it seemed fine at a glance. But phase lengths + postcap did it for me and a lot of other ppl probably agree

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your honest feedback. I may not be able to achieve the things I want to yet, but I will take these lessons to heart as I try to find my place here.

    See ya space cowpokes...

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Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

We hope you stick around!
Role of the Day
Motion Detector

The Motion Detector may each night target a player and learn if any actions were performed by or on that player, but not what the actions were or who else they involved.