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Thread: April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 5
Day 5 

  1. ISO #551
    its like d1 no talk whats happen

  2. ISO #552
    sugestion maybe postcap increase alil bit like 30 when gamesize smaller so its not thread die midgame

    same poatcap all game its keep get slower no point

  3. ISO #553
    Thread Analyst BoKnows's Avatar
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    bk has greater town equity than schweepe

  4. ISO #554
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoKnows (#553)
    bk has greater town equity than schweepe
    Says you

  5. ISO #555
    Soul Reader Schweppes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoKnows (#553)
    bk has greater town equity than schweepe
    Yes, BlueKang does have more town equity than a nonexistent user named schweepe, I agree.

  6. ISO #556
    i like soda its tasty

  7. ISO #557
    Soul Reader Schweppes's Avatar
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    So how are we gonna sort {bsball8806, Ciderhead, Deli, DENMON}?

    I'm not; I'm dead politically and on the inside anyways.
    But before we make an $%# out of ourselves D2, wait its D3, I'd rather the hypothetical wolf in that set not get any satisfaction out of the fact that a whole day was wasted twiddling thumbs and ignoring the issue.
    Its lame, and I'm bored.

  8. ISO #558
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Retrospective Day 1 Votecount as of Post #206

    Post #206 was originally posted at 6:45 PM EDT on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    2 Rotte Montmorency, AXIS
    2 Montmorency Marnie, bsball8806
    2 AXIS Deli, Intoewsables
    2 bsball8806 Schweppes, Ciderhead
    2 Intoewsables niphredil, DENMON
    2 Schweppes ducktacoswag, Rotte
    1 Not voting BoKnows

    View Vote History

    Requested by Schweppes.

  9. ISO #559
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Retrospective Day 1 Votecount as of Post #221

    Post #221 was originally posted at 6:52 PM EDT on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 Intoewsables niphredil, DENMON, Deli
    2 Rotte Montmorency, AXIS
    2 Montmorency Marnie, bsball8806
    2 bsball8806 Schweppes, Ciderhead
    2 Schweppes ducktacoswag, Rotte
    1 AXIS Intoewsables
    1 Not voting BoKnows

    View Vote History

    Requested by Schweppes.

  10. ISO #560
    Soul Reader Ciderhead's Avatar
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    If it comes down to BoKnows vs Schweppes I'm going Bo.

    But I wanna dig into what pinged me to re-examine my bsball read.

    This post, the bolded:

    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#461)
    Quote Originally Posted by Marnie (#458)
    lol now your try to pocket me its not work your scum sudden say im last elim before into

    yeah right you said im topscum eod and now im toptown who you think your kiding

    hammer bs stop the bs
    I can't really tell if you're trolling or not (this is kind of true for all your posts), but it's pretty clear my reads changed because of Niph's flip. It would be pretty wolfy of me if I still came in insisting you were a wolf despite your actions at EOD, right? How do you expect me to act if I'm a villager that realized "oh crap, marnie put the crucial vote on a wolf when there was a perfectly suitable other wagon?" Continue to push you?

    Also this wouldn't even be a case of pocketing (I hate this term and think people overuse it anyway), this is F8 (really, F7 with a day of no lunch available) so why would I try to pocket you of all people?
    That's such a strange mindset for a villager to have. "I wouldn't do this, cos it would be really wolfy" Except, wolves are the ones who are trying not to look wolfy. Villagers are just doing $%#!. They're trying to find the wolves. They're not as worried about how they're perceived, as a general rule.

    "How do you expect me to act if I'm a villager..." But you are one, no? So you know the way you're acting is villagery, not "not wolfy". It may seem like a nitpick, I can almost hear Schweppes rolling their eyes at me as I type, but this post reads like someone who's trying to convince Marnie and others of their towniness, rather than someone who knows it to be true. It's weird.

    But, look, villagers can make weird posts sometimes. It made me doubt myself enough however that I wanted to go back and double check their iso and interactions with niph and AXIS to reassure myself that my previous confidence there was justified. And...I came away thinking it wasn't actually that strong after all.

    First, AXIS:


    26 First post of the game, using bsball's post to springboard onto Rotte, bs later points out they weren't really even scumreading Rotte, shades AXIS for it. Decent look.

    Questions bs again at the bottom, although it seems to just be on a game theory statement (not entirely sure what he was actually asking there) and I don't believe bs responds.

    Also pushes denmon, I hadn't realised on first reading that denmon had actually been shading bsball in that post he quoted so it could be seen as a bit of chainsaw defence. Could just be pocketing bs though.

    36 pushing back on denmon's read again. Have bs as town as they(AXIS) are a self-identified power wolfer. That doesn't strike me as much of a reason at all, just because they wouldn't play a certain way as a wolf doesn't mean bs wouldn't, and they don't know anything about them as a player.

    But we already know AXIS was Wolfy. Whether this was an example of tmi or shielding a partner for poor reasoning, I'm not sure.

    42 Echo denmon's question towards bs, although I see no sign of them following this up in any way. In fact, that's the last mention of bs in their entire iso. They park them at the bottom of their townreads in 106 and 288 and don't speak about them again. Strikes me as similar to their treatment of Niph. And they did say they like to powerwolf...


    In conclusion, no smoking gun, but nothing particularly clearing I don't think.

    Couple of sidenotes as I only have one more post after this:

    -lot of interaction with denmon early game, doesn't feel w/w

    -37 and 41 very pockety towards deli. Much stronger on this than on niph (and bs for that matter). Put as top town. Prob whiteknighting.

    -93 "Actually something I like about Rotte for a change, this is somethign I went after Schweppes (I think) for doing last game." and "Wagon pushing attempt to try and get Schweppes to case me instead (Rotte knows he has jack)" feel vaguely like trying to buddy up to Schweppes. 70 and 104 also. Not hugely clearing, but when combined with points I made in 481 and intoews kinda echoed in 528 i think they're probably just town

    -line they include with Bo in 106. Don't do for anyone else. Feels like they want hem lynched, sowing thoughts in town minds


    Now, onto niph:


    There's barely any mention of bs here at all actually. The only hints of a reference to them are asking how people have reads on Mont, where they include me and them by name, and don't really follow up on. And they sort of use how intoews is reading bs as a way to go after intoews, which is maybe a minorly good look for them I guess.

    They put them at the lower end of their scum leans here 339 despite not mentioning them at all in their big wallpost preceding it 338.


    Idk, I almost feel like if they were partners they'd feel obliged to talk about them more if anything, but there's certainly nothing clearing here either.

    Sidenotes:

    -They interact a lot with Deli, more than anyone else combined almost, and it doesn't feel at all like w/w. Again, solidly confident in them being town here

    -BoKnows they don't mention up until their big 338. Hedge a lot as is they wont, but they do want them more than anyone besides intoews on D1. Have them as top scum. They don't vote before disappearing after the AXIS flip, it could be a bus/distancing attempt for sure. But it should be noted both wolves wanted them dead while not making any meaningful attempt to shade/distance from each other.

    And in a niph/Bo world they'd set themselves up to go there and look if not clear then reasonably decent from a Bo w/flip. Certainly a lot better than the other way around. So I don't know why they wouldn't just follow through there?

    But they could have just been busy irl and that's why they weren't around, who knows



    Finally, what about Bsball's posting themselves?

    D1:

    45 they immediately put some shade on niph, and 160 is the post I mentioned where they push on AXIS for the way they pushed off of their post and other things besides. This was around the point where I mentally ticked them off and moved onto someone else. But now I look a little deeper, there really wasn't much in the way of follow through to either of those pushes.

    In 51 they vote Marnie, instead of any of those on their wolfy list. I've said before that I find it hard to believe if they're town that not a single wolf pushed there, given so many townies wanted them dead. Well, they're all that's left.

    Then in 85 they very quickly backed off of Niph as it turns out, it really didn't take much at all, and there was no sign of any pressure there from them for the rest of the game, so the early post really isn't very clearing on their part after all, and could easily be some early distancing.

    They have both wolves as town in 140, then in their follow up in 148 it's two villagers that could be wrong, and Schweppes moving down, while they hedge on niph.

    Then comes the axis stuff, which is great, rather abrupt, but still good. However, again, when it comes to follow up, they fall short of actually putting their money where their mouth is.

    In 163 they put him in 3rd behind Mont and Marnie, and open up the floor for someone to give them an out. (There's also an appeal to Deli here which I think I said at the time felt a bit off.)

    172 They say they'll happily go Axis, me or Marnie. Of the 3, Axis is the only one with a wagon on them at this stage, courtesy of Deli, but there's no sign of them switching their vote, and after that there's nothing more from them for the rest of the day.


    D2:

    Open by going back on their Axis read somewhat in 314, saying they're "not too sure other people agree". This is rather wishy-washy and a slippery justification particularly when Duck and Schweppes had already included them in potential wolf teams by that point and not everyone had chimed in.

    Butttt as I scroll through the thread for context at that point I see they did in fact vote axis via proxy that doesn't show up in their iso (which is a mildly annoying feature actually. Hmm.

    Maybe it is just BoKnows and lolme for making this game harder than it needs to be

    That actually changes things quite a lot now I've seen that. It makes sense why they'd say they were clear in 398 which I was going to question. I suppose it could still be distancing, I don't recall any sign of them going through axis spew like they said they would here. And D2 before the big shot is the main time you would distance. But still, it doesn't look so bad.

    And that last bit goes for niph's push on Bo too sooo...maybe they just are the vote here.

    Back to bs, it's notable any niph thoughts have well and truly gone from 401 and 413, but I kinda feel like 443 shows an apathy they wouldn't have as a wolf? Like, either you'd look to save them or try and make yourself look good from the flip but bs here is doing neither really. Idk, maybe not the strongest point in the world.


    Then onto D3:

    I do have concerns they've been trying to open up the POE and widen their options somewhat. In 457 they have Marnie as second top town, but then 459 almost feels like they're trying to invite other people to push there, and 463, 501 continue that trend.

    Look, I know, I can hardly crucify anyone for going after Marnie today. But I think there's a difference in the way we've gone about it. I was trying to narrow things down, as much thinking everyone else was town as Marnie was scum, and arguing as such. Bs was more trying to widen the pool.

    I've gone into why I didn't like 461. I don't really like how they have Bo as scum, but still wanna go Schweppes today. I feel like scum who know they're town would rather keep them around longer if possible. You'll always be able to get them lynched at some point, it's highly doubtful they'll post themselves clear at this stage. Like, if you could get to LYLO with Bo that'd be a dream, in that world.

    "But isn't that what you're doing, Cider?" I hear you cry. Well, yes, but I also have reasons to think they might just be town, and have argued as such. Bs has them as scum, but still wants to go elsewhere. There's a difference.

    I also don't really like 469, again feels like trying to drag another suspect into the pool and sowing doubt rather than anything else.

    But I'm rambling on now and getting kinda tired so I'm gonna stop there and wrap things up I think.


    To conclude:

    - There's not anything in the dead wolves' isos that's particularly clearing. I think everyone else has stronger points in their favour, including Bo.

    - They shaded both wolves at points but found reasons to back off and didn't really follow through or put their money where their mouth is, other than an admittedly good vote on Axis D2 before the vig shot.

    - They have some wolfy posting today and show signs of trying to widen the suspect pool.

    - Their vote was on the Mont wagon D1 which I think is very unlikely to be all town.

    I'm not dead set on them being a wolf, but I think everyone else besides Bo has more compelling reasons to be a villager.

    I think Deli, Denmon, Schweppes and obviously Marnie and Intoews are all town, and going outside of that probably has the game on lock.

    Like I said at the top, if it Schweppes or Bo I'll go Bo, but I do think Bsball is the more likely so I'll stay here for the time being.

    May well end up going Bo anyway. But lunch them and bs in any order and jobs a good'un imo.

    Hasta le vista

  11. ISO #561
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#20)

    Lastly, in case it comes up, I played with AXIS, Ciderhead, niphredil, Schweppes, and Rotte. AXIS I keep scumreading, but niphredil I can read just fine I think. The rest I don't think I played with enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#53)
    P#47 - I would disagree that AXIS is not acting normal. Could you elaborate on what you are seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#98)
    P#73 - I do like that reasoning to scumread AXIS. Same reason why I didn't like Rotte's idea to lynch low-posters. It uses mechanics and not actual content to judge someone, but instead here, AXIS is actually voting the person because of mechanic reasons, which is probably more scummy :P
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#100)

    Confident Town (Never Ever Changing... Ever):

    Probably Town:

    Niphredil
    Ciderhead
    Rotte
    Schweppes

    Wanna Townread but Don't Have the Reasoning Yet (I usually pin down 1 red in this group):

    Intoewsables
    AXIS
    Marnie

    Null:

    BoKnows
    ducktacoswag
    Montmorency

    People Who Shouldn't be Null (Basically my Scumreads):

    Deli
    bsball8806
    DENMON, can you elaborate on your transition on AXIS here on D1? You start off by saying that you have history with them, and you usually find them wolfy. You then question schweppes saying that "AXIS is acting not normal" by saying that you think he's acting like his normal self.

    Following that, you respond to a post by Rotte saying that AXIS is wolfy because of OMGUS and too much talk about mechanics. Lastly, you put him in a reads list saying "probably town".

    It's odd to me, because it seems like your thought progression in these four posts is like

    1. Okay, I find this guy wolfy a lot
    2. I think he's acting normal (and in this context, based on the response to schweppes, my inference would be that you think he's acting villagery - which in and of itself, should be notable to you since you just said you find him wolfy often).
    3. I agree with the reasoning someone is using to find AXIS wolfy
    4. I'm putting AXIS in my second tier villager list

    The next post where you mention AXIS is around EOD where he vaguely mentions that AXIS could be a wolf but doesn't want to touch him, and then on D2 - where AXIS suddenly shows up on his wolf list. Note that unless I'm mistaken, despite calling him and niph wolves at various points, you never actually vote for either.

    Can you explain your thought process here? I know you've had some good stuff going for you on D2 like posts *about* AXIS and niph* - but note that when AXIS died, your vote was on BoKnows, and when niph got lunched, your vote was still on BoKnows. Likewise, on D1, your vote went back and forth between Intoew and Deli.

    Despite talking a lot about the two dead wolves, your votes and pushes never really seem to be on them. I've been rereading this thread a fair bit and can't seem to find damning evidence on the {BoKnows, Ciderhead, Schweppes, Deli} trio, Intoew and Marnie are clear, and I'm me. So I'm trying something new.

  12. ISO #562
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    @Ciderhead, I think you're low on posts so feel free to respond to this later, or someone else can, but everyone seems to be clearing DENMON and the vast majority of y'all (if not all of you :P) have to be villagers. Can someone explain why, because I seem to be missing it?

    To respond to your posts, btw - yes I acknowledge that a lot of what I've been doing has been kind of flailing around a bit. I was fairly happy that my D1 read on AXIS (that admittedly, I didn't stick to on D1), was correct - and, despite the fact that I voted BoKnows instead of niph on D2 (who, by the way, is probably the most likely third wolf), stated that I was happy with either wagon and would have likely gone niph over any other player in the game.

    Like you mentioned, I do have some other things going for me (yes, an early day vote is an early day vote, but the fact that I came out D2 still going after AXIS should mean something), and I'm having kind of the same problem you are that I just can't find the last wolf. That's kind of why I'm reconsidering all of my reads. I need to reread Deli again. I've already gone through you and schweppes and i'm less confident on schweppes than I was before.

    Gah

  13. ISO #563
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    On the other hand, BoKnows is literally just not trying any more (was he ever?) and I feel like he's going to have to die at some point. It's going to be annoying if he's a villager and just inting because he doesn't care about being lunched because he refuses to put in any effort, but from a policy perspective I'm not sure we can afford to have him in a theoretical F3.

    Bo, if you're a villager, it would be great if you could make 2-3 posts longer than a single sentence, with your strongest reads and a short justification of why.

  14. ISO #564
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 3 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 BoKnows DENMON (9), Schweppes (11), Intoewsables (7)
    3 Schweppes bsball8806 (14), BoKnows (5), Deli (10)
    2 bsball8806 Marnie (15), Ciderhead (19)

    View Vote History

    Day 3 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021. There are 1620169260000 remaining.

  15. ISO #565
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Vote by Proxy

    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806
    ##Vote BoKnows
    It is now 12:15:46 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021. There are 1620169260000 remaining.

  16. ISO #566
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 3 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 BoKnows DENMON (9), Schweppes (11), Intoewsables (7), bsball8806 (14)
    2 bsball8806 Marnie (15), Ciderhead (19)
    2 Schweppes BoKnows (5), Deli (10)

    View Vote History

    Day 3 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021. There are 1620169260000 remaining.

  17. ISO #567
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#561)
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#20)

    Lastly, in case it comes up, I played with AXIS, Ciderhead, niphredil, Schweppes, and Rotte. AXIS I keep scumreading, but niphredil I can read just fine I think. The rest I don't think I played with enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#53)
    P#47 - I would disagree that AXIS is not acting normal. Could you elaborate on what you are seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#98)
    P#73 - I do like that reasoning to scumread AXIS. Same reason why I didn't like Rotte's idea to lynch low-posters. It uses mechanics and not actual content to judge someone, but instead here, AXIS is actually voting the person because of mechanic reasons, which is probably more scummy :P
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#100)

    Confident Town (Never Ever Changing... Ever):

    Probably Town:

    Niphredil
    Ciderhead
    Rotte
    Schweppes

    Wanna Townread but Don't Have the Reasoning Yet (I usually pin down 1 red in this group):

    Intoewsables
    AXIS
    Marnie

    Null:

    BoKnows
    ducktacoswag
    Montmorency

    People Who Shouldn't be Null (Basically my Scumreads):

    Deli
    bsball8806
    DENMON, can you elaborate on your transition on AXIS here on D1? You start off by saying that you have history with them, and you usually find them wolfy. You then question schweppes saying that "AXIS is acting not normal" by saying that you think he's acting like his normal self.

    Following that, you respond to a post by Rotte saying that AXIS is wolfy because of OMGUS and too much talk about mechanics. Lastly, you put him in a reads list saying "probably town".

    It's odd to me, because it seems like your thought progression in these four posts is like

    1. Okay, I find this guy wolfy a lot
    2. I think he's acting normal (and in this context, based on the response to schweppes, my inference would be that you think he's acting villagery - which in and of itself, should be notable to you since you just said you find him wolfy often).
    3. I agree with the reasoning someone is using to find AXIS wolfy
    4. I'm putting AXIS in my second tier villager list

    The next post where you mention AXIS is around EOD where he vaguely mentions that AXIS could be a wolf but doesn't want to touch him, and then on D2 - where AXIS suddenly shows up on his wolf list. Note that unless I'm mistaken, despite calling him and niph wolves at various points, you never actually vote for either.

    Can you explain your thought process here? I know you've had some good stuff going for you on D2 like posts *about* AXIS and niph* - but note that when AXIS died, your vote was on BoKnows, and when niph got lunched, your vote was still on BoKnows. Likewise, on D1, your vote went back and forth between Intoew and Deli.

    Despite talking a lot about the two dead wolves, your votes and pushes never really seem to be on them. I've been rereading this thread a fair bit and can't seem to find damning evidence on the {BoKnows, Ciderhead, Schweppes, Deli} trio, Intoew and Marnie are clear, and I'm me. So I'm trying something new.
    So basically in the last 2 games I have played with AXIS, I have called him scummy for various reasons, so I didn't really touch him day 1 due to not wanting to mislynch him. Rotte had a good reason to scumread him, and I agreed, but I was still skeptical because meta-wise, he was acting pretty similar, and I didn't want to scumread him for the wrong reasons.

    Also I put him in the group that I wanna townread. It's a separate group because I tend to catch a red in that group due to the feeling I have for those people. They seem towny, but their play wouldn't be difficult to replicate as red, so I can't really clear them. AXIS seemed towny to me cause he seemed close enough to his town-meta, but I didn't have a real reason to clear him and say that he was town.

    Day 2, I always reevaluate, since the way that I approach the game changes. On day 1, I have to read posts and the content and judge if people are towny based on that, but for me, that reasoning isn't as accurate as my approach on day 2, which is to look at vote progression throughout day 1, and judge if it makes sense from a red perspective to have such a vote history/progression. If it doesn't, I can clear them, but if it does, then it can go either way. At that point, I use PoE to sniff out the scumteam, then I use the content they made to supplement my reasoning. So I WILL switch reads at the start of day 2.

    Also pretend that I voted AXIS for my day 2 wall post. That was my intention but I forgot cause I was tired and immediately slept after making that Dx

    This will probably be my last post today. If BoKnows is town, then idk who the last red is, but I'll figure it out when we come to that. Right now I gotta use my brain energy on something else.

  18. ISO #568
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#547)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#546)
    Retrospective Day 3 Votecount as of Post #545

    Post #545 was originally posted at 8:46 PM EDT on Monday, May 3rd, 2021.

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 BoKnows DENMON, Schweppes, Intoewsables
    3 Schweppes bsball8806, BoKnows, Deli
    2 bsball8806 Marnie, Ciderhead

    View Vote History

    Requested by Deli.
    It’s tough because my clearer villas are on BoKnows :/
    @Deli, can you walk me through why it matters who your clearer voters are voting when there's only one wolf left?

  19. ISO #569
    Soul Reader Schweppes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#560)
    It may seem like a nitpick, I can almost hear Schweppes rolling their eyes at me as I type
    Uh no actually. I've seen, and fingered real language slips before. I don't think the "If I'm a villager" stuff is a problem in itself though. What is worrying is that bs was thinking about what would be wolfy instead of just stating that yeah no duh this is how logic works. Its an extremely strange way to explain things. Its also strange because I think if bs actually was scum, they really must not have been rereading much because its sort of a glaring perspective slip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#560)
    - There's not anything in the dead wolves' isos that's particularly clearing. I think everyone else has stronger points in their favour, including Bo.
    Do you understand how I feel now then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#560)
    - They shaded both wolves at points but found reasons to back off and didn't really follow through or put their money where their mouth is, other than an admittedly good vote on Axis D2 before the vig shot.
    Probably the most salient point in this wall. I'll think about it. Whether I want spice or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#561)
    Despite talking a lot about the two dead wolves, your votes and pushes never really seem to be on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#562)
    @Ciderhead, I think you're low on posts so feel free to respond to this later, or someone else can, but everyone seems to be clearing DENMON and the vast majority of y'all (if not all of you :P) have to be villagers. Can someone explain why, because I seem to be missing it?
    I probably share DENMON's perspective with regards to this. The problem is that the scum was literally just AXIS and niph, people we've both played with before. niph is nigh unreadable in isolation, and maybe DENMON should've caught them thru spew like Ciderhead did -- Ok this is making excuses. I just didn't catch niph either so thats my sympathy leaking thru. We both got there on AXIS it seems.

    I've been townreading DENMON because I have no reason to scumread them. We've had similar progressions (AXIS -> BoKnows).

    Ok whatever I fail the test. They seem normal, but the only way to catch a w!DENMON is by examining what they're pushing and actually looking at their arguments but I was never one for deciphering bad cases or agenda. My previous experience with them was "obvtowny" but I had TMI and we NKed them N1.

    Sorry I'm just stupid. These walls just haven't been conducive for giving people strong townreads. I have Deli and Cider high because I know them and supposedly I know their tone. A more accurate ranking of towniness would be Cider > DENMON, not the other way around. I know how much trust I can put into reads of people who are contributive and sound nice and thats just how it is.

    Actually I tr DENMON because of P#516.

  20. ISO #570
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    I make meta posts like that all the time as a villager (like I am now) that Deli can confirm, I probably talk a little bit too much about my meta.

    The entire point of the post wasn't even to say that something I did was villagery, though it was set in that context - it was more of an objective criticism of the way marnie was trying to make reads. Wolves are far more likely to stubbornly stick to reads when given information (lunch result and NK) than they are to switch their reads on what seems like a whim.

    So again, I'm diving too deep into my own meta, but just trying to answer what y'all are saying.

  21. ISO #571
    bos lynchbait should i hammer i hate it

  22. ISO #572
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#563)
    On the other hand, BoKnows is literally just not trying any more (was he ever?) and I feel like he's going to have to die at some point. It's going to be annoying if he's a villager and just inting because he doesn't care about being lunched because he refuses to put in any effort, but from a policy perspective I'm not sure we can afford to have him in a theoretical F3.

    Bo, if you're a villager, it would be great if you could make 2-3 posts longer than a single sentence, with your strongest reads and a short justification of why.
    This post kinda feels like trying to find a reason to vote a lead wagon and get a mislunch. :thinking: But you aren't a lead wagon so that can't really be the case? If you're a wolf both wagons would be a-ok, and maybe we should be looking for whoever is content with these lunches in case they are v/v. We might have the wolf tho?

    I'm not clearing DENMON fwiw, I just don't have the energy to fully read his posts so I'm sheeping other villas.

    What is making you less confident in your Schweppes wolf-read?

  23. ISO #573
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#568)
    @Deli, can you walk me through why it matters who your clearer voters are voting when there's only one wolf left?

    Because I'm trusting their read of things more than the read of people I think might be a wolf.

  24. ISO #574
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#572)
    This post kinda feels like trying to find a reason to vote a lead wagon and get a mislunch. :thinking: But you aren't a lead wagon so that can't really be the case? If you're a wolf both wagons would be a-ok, and maybe we should be looking for whoever is content with these lunches in case they are v/v. We might have the wolf tho?

    I'm not clearing DENMON fwiw, I just don't have the energy to fully read his posts so I'm sheeping other villas.

    What is making you less confident in your Schweppes wolf-read?
    I'm just thinking through everything. The D1 transition didn't make a whole lot of sense to me so I was curious. I think it's BoKnows btw, he really seems to just be giving up. If I'm a wolf I'm basically AFKing today and showing up tomorrow. Or maybe not But yeah.

    That's what confuses me too, I basically had been clearing him since D2 and was wondering if it's possible we're all wrong. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, not someone I'm considering to lunch before F3.

    Basically both their interactions with both wolves, and the other two wolves' interactions with them. Don't remember exactly but I recall seeing a few posts where I was like "this can't be w/w..." I think it had to do with bussing/calling out partners in ways that wolves don't do.

    [QUOTE=Deli;4879485]
    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#568)
    Because I'm trusting their read of things more than the read of people I think might be a wolf.
    But this doesn't really make sense when there's only one wolf left. If the wagon is one of BoKnows/Schweppes, they are voting each other so you should always feel more comfortable voting whichever is a more likely wolf. If the wolf is not BoKnows or Schweppes, both wagons are villagers and it doesn't matter anyway.

    What you're saying is true if there is >1 wolf left but when there's one wolf exactly you should not care which wagon has more wolfy people on it.

  25. ISO #575
    Soul Reader Ciderhead's Avatar
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    Beginning to think it might just be Bo also. At this point I kinda hope it is.

    Prob will hammer with a few minutes to go if no one beats me to it, spare my blushes if I have been making this much harder than it needs to be all this time

  26. ISO #576
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    If for some reason, the game doesn't end, tomorrow will be interesting. We'll likely be left with one of the cleareds:

    Clear
    Marnie, Intoewsables

    And then the five of us:

    Everyone Else
    Schweppes
    Ciderhead
    DENMON
    Deli
    bsball8806

    We can force the wolves to kill one of the uncleareds by sleeping at F4 if it ever gets to that. They could also leave a cleared player alive in F3 but that most likely be dumb. Unless I'm missing something, and barring any earthshattering changes, we should never sleep/no lunch before then. Just saying all this if somehow the lolwolf decides to rand the kill again and it land on me. Haha.

    Right now, my lunch order of the remaining players is probably

    Schweppes > DENMON > Deli > Ciderhead but that's of course subject to change. Hoping this is all for naught and the game ends in 45 minutes. It's like vaguely worth noting that the last wolf, should it not be BoKnows, is likely chilling today and not doing much and will magically start trying more tomorrow.

    Ciderhead has been pretty active, Deli also, Schweppes has been in and out, and DENMON has been less involved that previously. Which roughly follows my lunch order. But we'll see.

  27. ISO #577
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 3 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 BoKnows DENMON (10), Schweppes (12), Intoewsables (7), bsball8806 (18)
    2 bsball8806 Marnie (16), Ciderhead (20)
    2 Schweppes BoKnows (5), Deli (12)

    View Vote History

    Day 3 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021. There are 1620169260000 remaining.

  28. ISO #578
    Thread Analyst Intoewsables's Avatar
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    Hope I'm not tunneling here but Bo feels like caught scum giving up. Or just really $%#!ing lazy town play I guess.

    I assume the mafia kill will be on myself or Marnie, so in the event that Bo flips town and I'm not here going forward, hopefully we can just run through the PoE list and win it.

  29. ISO #579
    its fliptime

  30. ISO #580
    bos not even play whats he doing

  31. ISO #581
    i feel bos really just vt

  32. ISO #582
    if bos townflip

    im die

    deli tr

    cider st/

    soda nt/

    den mt/

    bs sr

    im wait for flip itll fine no worry

  33. ISO #583
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead
    ##Vote BoKnows
    It is now 7:00:49 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021. There are 1620169260000 remaining.

  34. ISO #584
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    « Day 3 Elimination: BoKnows was Vanilla Town »
    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 3 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    5 BoKnows DENMON (10), Schweppes (12), Intoewsables (8), bsball8806 (18), Ciderhead (20)
    2 Schweppes BoKnows (5), Deli (12)
    1 bsball8806 Marnie (20)


    View Vote History

    BoKnows was eliminated. They were: Vanilla Town.
    Role PM for April Ultra-Low Postcount Game

    You are Vanilla Town. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.


    Day 3 has ended.

    Day 3 ended at 7:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, May 4th, 2021.

  35. ISO #585
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    « Night 3 Start »
    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Night 3 Start

    Night 3 has begun.

    Please submit your night actions below the thread.

    Night 3 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Wednesday, May 5th, 2021. There are 1620255660000 remaining.

  36. ISO #586
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    « Night 3 Results: Ciderhead was Vanilla Town »
    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Night 3 Results

    Ciderhead has died. They were: Vanilla Town.
    Role PM for April Ultra-Low Postcount Game

    You are Vanilla Town. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.


    Night 3 has ended.

    Night 3 ended at 7:00 PM EDT on Wednesday, May 5th, 2021.

  37. ISO #587
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    « Day 4 Start »
    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 4 Start

    Day 4 has begun.

    Living Players

    @bsball8806
    @Deli
    @DENMON
    @Intoewsables
    @Marnie
    @Schweppes

    Day 4 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Friday, May 7th, 2021. There are 1620428460000 remaining.

  38. ISO #588
    Bandwagoner bsball8806's Avatar
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    Thanks, @BoKnows - really great effort you put into avoiding your lunch. Going to probably go reread ducktaco and Ciderhead this evening to see their reads.

    Honestly, I had a feeling that was coming. The wolf is killing off the people who are actually trying, and Ciderhead was definitely trying.

    The good news is that there's one more cleared person that the wolves eliminated from a potential POE (not like anyone was *really* suspicious of him). There are now three villagers, and one wolf, in (bsball8806, Deli, DENMON, and Schweppes).

    The bad news is that it is becoming more clear that the last wolf knows what they're doing.

    Today we lunch the most likely wolf out of the four uncleareds, then if that doesn't end the game, sleep at F3 and force the wolf to kill either Marnie or another uncleared.

    Right now, my preferred order is Schweppes>DENMON>Deli. The real concern I have is that we basically have one chance to get it right. If I were a wolf, I would 100% leave marnie alive at F3 (well, *I* wouldn't, because marnie has literally had it out for me since like D2) and expect them to instavote me. Today is really important. I have a strong hunch that this is exactly what the wolf has planned to do for at least one, maybe two days now. @Marnie - for the love of god, if you are able to put together coherent posts, please read and consider what has been done this game so far.

    Also, not like I expect anyone to believe this, but there is like a 100% chance I kill Intoew-->Marnie the last two nights, and if for some strange reason I hadn't, I kill Marnie last night.

    ##Vote Schweppes though I could probably see this going to DENMON too. Really don't want to look into Deli unless things change.

  39. ISO #589
    how am i still alive

    needs explain

  40. ISO #590
    why no towntells smh

  41. ISO #591
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Gun to head, I'm thinking it's Deli, but if that's the case, then I absolutely hate the use of AtE. Will need to do vote analysis again though

  42. ISO #592
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsball8806 (#588)
    Thanks, @BoKnows - really great effort you put into avoiding your lunch. Going to probably go reread ducktaco and Ciderhead this evening to see their reads.

    Honestly, I had a feeling that was coming. The wolf is killing off the people who are actually trying, and Ciderhead was definitely trying.

    The good news is that there's one more cleared person that the wolves eliminated from a potential POE (not like anyone was *really* suspicious of him). There are now three villagers, and one wolf, in (bsball8806, Deli, DENMON, and Schweppes).

    The bad news is that it is becoming more clear that the last wolf knows what they're doing.

    Today we lunch the most likely wolf out of the four uncleareds, then if that doesn't end the game, sleep at F3 and force the wolf to kill either Marnie or another uncleared.

    Right now, my preferred order is Schweppes>DENMON>Deli. The real concern I have is that we basically have one chance to get it right. If I were a wolf, I would 100% leave marnie alive at F3 (well, *I* wouldn't, because marnie has literally had it out for me since like D2) and expect them to instavote me. Today is really important. I have a strong hunch that this is exactly what the wolf has planned to do for at least one, maybe two days now. @Marnie - for the love of god, if you are able to put together coherent posts, please read and consider what has been done this game so far.

    Also, not like I expect anyone to believe this, but there is like a 100% chance I kill Intoew-->Marnie the last two nights, and if for some strange reason I hadn't, I kill Marnie last night.

    ##Vote Schweppes though I could probably see this going to DENMON too. Really don't want to look into Deli unless things change.
    We have two chances, cause we can lynch today, get to MyLo, no lynch, then go again.

  43. ISO #593
    Thread Analyst Intoewsables's Avatar
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    I'm just imagining ducktaco reading the thread and screaming at his monitor, lol. Really wish Bo had put more effort into this game but that's my bad for sticking to my initial read on him, I guess.

    I feel like it's probably Schweppes but I really need to get around to reading through some ISOs again. bsball is starting to say some things that are pinging me as scummy but that might just be the paranoia setting in.

    Leaving two confirmed townies alive is an interesting strategy and if I'm putting on my spectator hat, I'm actually quite curious to see how this goes.

  44. ISO #594
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    From my PoV, it has to be bsball8806, but I kinda don't wanna believe it cause I kinda townread you hard after day 2.

  45. ISO #595
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#591)
    Gun to head, I'm thinking it's Deli, but if that's the case, then I absolutely hate the use of AtE. Will need to do vote analysis again though
    It's not me, I wouldn't do that and I sincerely regret that post. Apologies again.

  46. ISO #596
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Honestly I'm fine with this in any order {Schweppes, Bsball}. We have two cleared people [Intoews, Marnie] who somehow survived over the person I was 100% going to paranoid tunnel next. Wtaf.

    If {Scweppes, Bsball} isn't it, then it has to be DENMON (lol if so). Based on his current posting it may even be that DENMON is most likely, but I'm confused what the strat is here with not killing the cleared people because it feels like f3 is looking weird.

    I'm not that familiar with having a BG role, but usually people claim their moves, right? Is there some benefit to Marnie not explaining his NAs?

    I thought it was Schweppes last night, not sure why people didn't agree but four of you voted with the wolf and that's sad. I think we should go Schweppes and hopefully that just ends it, otherwise bsball next, then DENMON.

  47. ISO #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deli
    ##Vote Schweppes
    It is now 8:24:05 PM EDT on Wednesday, May 5th, 2021. There are 1620428460000 remaining.

  48. ISO #598
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Gonna look at day 2 and day 3, cause I don't want to repeat myself. I'll also be ignoring spew for now. Everyone voted a red, so clearly there was bussing.

    Although, after unexpectedly losing a teammate day 2, they probably wouldn't want to lynch their second one so quickly. Maybe LyLo, but not day 2, which means that it is likely between Schweppes and bsball8806, which makes me more suspicious of bsball8806.

    Yes, I am still clearing Schweppes due to meta reasons, maybe not if bsball8806 is town, but weh.

    bsball8806:
    I did townread bsball8806 for his progression on day 1, but I guess it's possible for his teammates to tell him to scumread AXIS, and bsball8806 made up the reason to scumread AXIS on the spot, which is weh. This is why I should rely on vote history stuff :P Also bsball8806 voted Montmorency day 1, and I was not sure why day 2. Still don't have a clue, but I'll need to remember that, cause that's usually towny behavior.

    He first votes AXIS, which can easily be a vote on his partner, since there was no followup to it. AXIS died before there was any progression, so I can't confirm if it is town that caught scum. So it's NAI. He then moves to BoKnows cause I voted there, which is one of the lamer reasons to vote someone (which I think Schweppes used as well, so I guess it's not AI? :P) Nothing else after that. It's pretty NAI.

    Day 3, there is a lot of movement for a potential red that just lost 2 reds. bsball8806 starts off with a pretty bad vote on Schweppes. The reason why it's bad, is cause it takes one post and calls Schweppes scum off of it. Reds tend to cherry pick and not look at the bigger picture. If he was looking at partnering, then I'm surprised he didn't talk about Schweppes and AXIS being a team considering there is a bit in Schweppes favor there (which I would discredit cause Schweppes likes to bus).

    bsball8806 then moves onto Marnie, which is kinda towny, cause there really isn't any motivation for a red to move, especially so early in the day. Maybe closer to EoD but not then. He also wasn't a top wagon. It just seems unnecessary, but it's weird he was willing to drop his Schweppes case? bsball8806 also has a good amount of scumreads this day, which might be indicative of scum, since he needs to find a way to get the cleared unconfirmed people less cleared (and he later tries to case me, probably for LyLo, if he is red).

    bsball8806's move back to Schweppes is NAI, cause Marnie just claimed.

    Here, one thing I can appreciate is the amount of work that is being done, but I accidently cleared scum doing that before sooo eh. But I really like how he kind of posts a lot, considering different possibilities, then changes his mind at the end and moves his vote. It kinda gives me the vibes that is a town person trying to think hmm.

    I think I'll do Schweppes and hopefully find a reason to scumread him, cause I'm just not feeling bsball8806.

    Schweppes:
    Day 1, I found Schweppe's behavior as towny cause of who he voted at EoD. The vote change at the end was unnecessary from both alignments, except as town, people do that to make a statement, which is what I thought Schweppes was doing there.

    Day 2 and day 3, is what I would expect scum to do however. Day 2, he voted AXIS, cause Schweppes had AXIS in his PoE for a bit, and then just like bsball8806, doesn't really progress a whole lot there before AXIS flipped, so can't tell ya if it was a town who caught scum. Even then, I would be skeptical cause of meta. After that, Schweppes moved to BoKnows, which is NAI.

    Something interesting though, Schweppes did try to defend niphredil a bit, though not so much where people are gonna immediately pair them together, and after losing a red day 2, the reds are not going to bus. On the other hand, bsball8806 didn't care about who voted where, and said that both wagons were fine, which makes Schweppes look worse here imo.

    Schweppes then looks more demotivated than usual day 3, and votes BoKnows without really considering other possibilities, which is overall NAI.

    Voting-wise, Schweppes definitely looks worse.

    Though not sure if Schweppes would kill Ciderhead here. I just think there is too many people wanting Schweppes to go down here, so I am a bit skeptical. Ciderhead would vote bsball8806 here, and he's more persuasive than Marnie, and he's also vanilla.

    Basically idk

    Deli:
    Day 1, I found Deli's vote history more on the scummy side, and mentioned how he had scum-equity with AXIS

    Deli starts off day 2 with a vote on BoKnows, which is NAI. Maybe scummy if you think about how BoKnows was good mislynch bait.

    Deli also uses AtE

    Deli then votes niphredil right after AXIS flips, which is a strange transition, when BoKnows was still a viable wagon. Pretty towny

    Lots of movement day 3, which is good. Towny for similar reasons as to why bsball8806 was towny, though less so cause some of the votes weren't nearly as believable. There was one vote where he votes with no posts to give context. It was basically out of nowhere.

    Ya Deli should be town, not gonna get too worked up on it.

    From my PoV I should have a winning PoE with bsball8806 and Schweppes, but not sure who to choose.

    Voting-wise Schweppes is pretty bad, though the vote at EoD1 is giving me a pause, though I guess it's possible for a red to make a meaningless vote, cause it's, well, meaningless.

  49. ISO #599
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#595)
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#591)
    Gun to head, I'm thinking it's Deli, but if that's the case, then I absolutely hate the use of AtE. Will need to do vote analysis again though
    It's not me, I wouldn't do that and I sincerely regret that post. Apologies again.
    It's ok, I believe you now after getting my head cleared :P

  50. ISO #600
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    There's no maj, right?

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