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Thread: April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 5
Day 5 

  1. ISO #751
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#748)
    Gonna do a full iso here. Please read through all of it. Any posts that I don't talk about are NAI in my opinion. If you think there is a post that I should reconsider or townread, lmk. This is more stuff than what I normally would say, but I have this to say cause I know Schweppes/JohnCarter is red. It's like when you are spectating a game while spoiled, it is a lot easier to find reasons to scumread people as a result. All the reasons that you think about but don't mention cause you think it is probably wrong, can be said once you know their alignment.

    P#47 - I've played with Schweppes, AXIS, and niphredil. niphredil looks normal (not towny btw) because niphredil follows the same posting style as she does as town. Big paragraphs about 5-7 posts where niphredil feels really unconfident about everything. When people have a thing, they try to replicate it. niphredil's thing is easy to replicate, so that's where Schweppes mind was there. I've mentioned this before, but I'm pretty sure that there was TMI when talking about AXIS here. I've played with AXIS, and his 'thing' doesn't really appear until like midday. There was no way that there was enough information for Schweppes to claim that AXIS was not normal here. Schweppes must have seen something that he thought that he hasn't seen AXIS do before as town, and wrongly attributed it to AXIS being red, and so he said AXIS was not being normal. There's was simply no way.

    P#68 - This is what Schweppes wrongly attributed AXIS's scumminess too. What Schweppes describes is heavily game-dependent. If there is nothing that you can easily thrash, then you simply can't. Openings are different each game.

    P#91 - He shades here, but that is a weird thing to shade about in general, cause why people respond to things varies, and Rotte responds correctly with confusion. It just seems like a classic jab that reds do (while town also shades, it usually is meaningful), but considering Schweppes reads (which is not much), it seems that it didn't lead anywhere. Rotte replied saying that Schweppes isn't making sense here, and Schweppes was like ya and dropped it.

    P#114 - niphredil was coached

    P#117 - This can go either way, but like Schweppes, who is red, needs room to mislynch, and is giving himself lots of it. It's probably NAI, but reds have an incentive to do this, when two wall posts included why Montmorency's post was bad directly after.

    P#145 - "I keep rereading posts and then somehow having the stuff to say about them when I didn't before." - There is no evidence of this. This is actually something that people can fact-check if they put the effort in. I found proof of bsball8806 rereading when he didn't even say that he was rereading. Reds like to say that they are doing more work than they actually are. Probably the easiest reference that I bet all of you have been in before, when it's the end of the game, and the reds are promising that they'll make lots of content, but they don't really fulfill that promise, or at least fully. Or like delay it considerably (This is more common when votes are locked). It feels good when someone says that 'I will ISO everyone' and you look good for like a few hours. I think this idea is similar to what Schweppes was saying here.

    P#171 - A bunch of people already mentioned this, but when Schweppes says, "Your typical AXIS D1 is bull-headed and very wrong. I don't know whether it evolved to be more wrong or more bullheaded today but I'm certainly not going to read him for it. Last game I declined to read him D1 and I intend on doing the same now. In the past two dawoodle light games, he's done fairly well for himself, so I'd rather keep him around and see if he starts being pro-town.", it definitely seemed like a lame reason to not vote your scummate despite shading them all day.

    Also, Schweppes clearly scummreads Intoewsables despite pretending that he doesn't understand why people scumread them. It just seems pretty contradictory.

    Also, like I mentioned to Rotte, reds tend to have more scumreads, cause reds think about having enough scumreads to get mislynches down in the future, along with their scumbuddies, so reds gets more scumreads than usual. This is a good example of it. His only townread that is on town is me, and that's not super difficult to do.

    P#184 - A continuation of the above point. Lots of options

    The rest of day 1 is NAI. Again, the only townread that is on town is me (he townreads niphredil too) He doesn't want to vote Ciderhead and Marnie. Ciderhead eventually got into Schweppes townreads, but that's cause Schweppes had meta on Ciderhead. Schweppes wanted to keep Marnie cause he seemed like mislynch bait, which is not really a townread.

    P#286 - There was one time a red commented that their wagon was pure on day 1, and I didn't think of it, but it might be something to consider now. Yes, it's weird that despite Schweppes being a popular scumread day 1, that his wagon was pure.

    Schweppes also says, " And the Montmorency wagon never contains all scum so I'm left with scum in {AXIS, niphredil}. Fun times." This seems like TMI again. Schweppes was townreading niphredil cause she was 'normal', so this was a bit weird. Also, this isn't even a complete thought, cause Schweppes later mentions that there might be a red in Deli and bsball8806, but the comment of 'Fun times' just seems out of place, as if Schweppes knows that that group is all scum, but that might be far fetched. I just don't get why Schweppes says 'Fun times' here, and that's my reason.

    P#233 - Schweppes bussed a TON last red game and got a lot of towncred for it, cause it was really well done. So this is NAI. (I also bus Dx)

    P#369 - This felt fake, but I think I believe it that Schweppes didn't do that to get derp-cleared. (She got annoyed for being caught for the wrong reasons :P) So let's say it's NAI

    P#410 - "Actually, I have no idea why w!Marnie tries starting a dome unless niph is his partner tbh." - I see reds do this before their scumpartner flips, so that they have reason to scumread someone else if they were to flip. They can just point to this. It just seems too perfect, ya know? Epecially since this thought isn't mentioned again (unless maybe day 3, but I don't remember).

    Rest of day 2 is NAI I think

    I also didn't die despite everyone townreading me, cause if someone was scumreading Schweppes, then I would be there to say "nope, Schweppes is town because of meta". This has happened before too >.>

    P#489 - Schweppes just cleared Deli from spew day 2. Schweppes gives reasons not to townread someone for voting niphredil, cause Schweppes knows that a lot of people are cleared cause of spew, so he needs to work to limit how many people get cleared.

    I've mentioned this before, but I can sense a tonal difference day 3. Don't know if it's just me, but Schweppes felt less motivated, which shouldn't be town's reaction after killing 2 reds. I could say about this with Deli, but I think Deli's tone shifts after my scumread on her, so I don't think it's linked to Deli losing her scummates.

    P#569 - This could be TMI with the way Schweppes townreads me. This is common from a red perspective, to find me town easier than other people, cause again when you know poeple's alignments, it is easier to read them correctly. Schweppes even mentioned that I died night 1 last game cause Schweppes found me as obv town and didn't bother to read me after that. Same thing here, Schweppes hasn't really reading a lot of my content cause I am just so obvious, so Schweppes struggles to even explain why I am town here.

    Schweppes then kinda gives up day 4, and replaces out. This is why we switched from Schweppes to anybody else in the first place, cause you don't expect reds to post like this, but it happened. Not much to say other than that, cause I would townread it too.


    But let's say this, you ever townread someone for a good portion of the game, but now you are scumreading them cause it's end-game and you are doubting them since the red has like one or two things towny about them that makes it hard for you to pull the trigger. But then that person you townread the entire game turned out to be town (bsball8806 for example). Well, this is that. Let's vote for the person who was scummy all game.

    Can't proofread cause of lack of time.
    see this just seems like doing 180 on this slot because you incorrectly thought I scumread you lol.


    like whether you thought that as town or scum is yet to be seen, which is the funny thing

  2. ISO #752
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Oh this is a lot easier, I don't actually have to brawl with JohnCarter lol

    I assumed you were in the process of scumreading me with P#740, you just haven't posted everything yet. So yes, I misunderstood, and assumed that you were in the process of making a case, especially since I got online not that long after you made that post.

    JohnCarter is targeting Deli cause he has meta on me and knows I am town, so he doesn't know how he would case me.

  3. ISO #753
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    The good thing about a 72er is that I can turn off this thread for 70 hours and come back and if denmon is still like this then when he's had the time to read through my latest few posts, then the answer is clear

    lmao. life is good.

  4. ISO #754
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#752)
    JohnCarter is targeting Deli cause he has meta on me and knows I am town, so he doesn't know how he would case me.


    now you're just having a laugh. like. lol.

    @Deli @Intoewsables

    alright this game is solved lmfao. cya in 70-whatever hours when this is over

    ##Vote DENMON

  5. ISO #755
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#746)
    I'm confused. Deli makes this list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#43)
    Town --> Wolf/Scum/Baddies List

    as requested by denmon?
    Deli- town af

    slight villa lean
    niphredil - some of their opening post does seem a little too questioning for me, and I don't like their read of Rotte town. I don't think "seeming relaxed" is a great case, but their overall tone seems ok. Something endearing about all the lols in their post reminds me of myself lol but tbh I could definitely see this person being just excellent at wolfing here.
    Ciderhead - someone here has to be town. this is kinda just tone and POE.

    no idea
    BoKnows - hasn't posted?
    ducktacoswag - has only talked to themself?
    Marnie - hasn't posted?
    Schweppes - one word posts & emojis.....

    wolf leans
    Montmorency - not much to differentiate this person from the ginger ale guy given they've both basically posted nothing, wolfy vibes idk
    bsball8806 - discussing mislunch is typical villa, picking apart people's language is typical villa as well for him. Something is pinging me. Need more time to decide on this one. Hesitant to lunch first.
    DENMON - I don't like the bsball vote immediately after cider votes [might be safe to say though that denmon and bsball are not w/w] Lots of shot off type posts, given the format this is alarming to me. Could be town, but could also just be good at this game.
    Rotte - I'm starting to second guess this wolf read but I'm not moving this because it's already been a struggle just to make this much of a list tbh.
    Intoewsables - bad tone, talk for talk sake, etc. Nothing has changed here from my previous post.
    Axis - interactions w/ bsball, some mild pocketing behavior, non-contributory posting, something else I forgot

    I hope these are coherent enough to follow. Gotta go to work. I'll catch up after and try to update. This list will probably get flipped around a few times because of new information but just my initial vibes.
    Denmon calls it out

    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#53)
    P#43 - Again, I don't like the amount of scumreads, especially since I bet there is a red between those nulls, which means he has at least 3 town in his scum list, yet Deli is pretending that's not the case, at least that is the vibe I'm getting.

    Also Deli, wdym by 'shot-off' posts, and also what do you mean when you said that I might be town, but I might also be good at the game. Good enough to look towny as scum? How do you conclude that if that's the case.

    P#45 - Was my post really not that clear smh :P I'm talking about Rotte's vote on Montmorency. Yes, there is some reasoning there, but when you describe your actions, it appears differently than what you say on the spot, if that makes sense. I can talk about this more later, but I'm not gonna base my read on Rotte on only what I think here

    Speaking of Rotte, I don't like how Rotte is being scumread by like 90% of the game, which makes me want to just townread him based on that :P I think more often than not, when this happens, it tends to be a green that gets hit.

    Schweppes already feels different from his scum game. Before on day 1, Schweppes felt like he was posting for the sake of posting, but here he seems more into the thread. He also seems more casual and less try-hardy. I know meta reasoning is annoying, but I'll use this until I can use non-meta reasons.

    P#47 - I would disagree that AXIS is not acting normal. Could you elaborate on what you are seeing?

    P#51 - Not gonna ask why cause I know that you will say why at some point. Did your read on me change at all when you made this post? I also asked you what you thought about my other content, but you didn't answer.

    ducktacoswag, can you describe your playstyle? Also give me one or two townreads if you are able to.

    Gonna try something new

    ##Vote Deli


    Deli doesn't seem to change his read on Niph. Then even says this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#345)
    Quote Originally Posted by Intoewsables (#343)
    I think I like BoKnows/AXIS/Marnie as our wagons for today and I might just shoot whichever one looks least likely to get lynched.
    I can get behind this
    The votes Niph in p#379
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#379)
    Vote by Proxy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deli
    ##Vote niphredil
    It is now 12:54:51 AM EDT on Saturday, May 1st, 2021. There are 1619910060000 remaining.


    For seemingly no reason?

    And their original reads list has Niph has their top town essentially yet only really lists reasons they could be a wolf, with the exception of 'their tone is ok'.
    I was planning on scumreading you regardless of you wanted to vote today, since I'm really confident it's you.

    You are also taking stuff out of context here. Deli doesn't explicitly say anything, but you should expect Deli to be reading. AXIS just flipped red, and there was reason to believe that niphredil was red because of association reads, and Deli, like others went there because of that. niphredil was definitely not going to be a wagon if AXIS didn't flip yet. Too many people were townreading niphredil at the time.

    Also bussing niphredil is just bad play here, since losing 2 reds day 2 is just not that optimal unless you are planning to really excel and do well, along with hoping that there isn't enough spew to clear a bunch of people, which is not how Deli is behaving.

  6. ISO #756
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#754)
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#752)
    JohnCarter is targeting Deli cause he has meta on me and knows I am town, so he doesn't know how he would case me.


    now you're just having a laugh. like. lol.

    @Deli @Intoewsables

    alright this game is solved lmfao. cya in 70-whatever hours when this is over

    ##Vote DENMON
    I'm just spitting facts here. You can't case us.

  7. ISO #757
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    I'm not eating cause of mafia.

    That's not good

    ##Vote JohnCarter

    See you tomorrow

  8. ISO #758
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Rigidity in your stance today - your reason for voting someone in mylo disappeared yet your conclusion is the same (wolf tell #1)

    Whiteknighting Deli (“Deli, Deli, please, don’t listen to JohnCarter who is trying to solve the game and may find things you say suspicious!!! Listen to me, who knows you are town and will only say that you are town because I need your vote and don’t want to annoy you!!!!!”)


    Are you playing bingo for how much you can hit all the classic wolf tells?

    Keep em coming

  9. ISO #759
    Thread Analyst Intoewsables's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#741)
    Also we are not gonna sleep cause we all know that Intoewsables will die next. There is no reason to go for anyone else in the mafia's eyes.
    Yeah, but an extra 48 hours gives you all an opportunity to argue more and figure out which one of you is the wolf.

  10. ISO #760
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    bruh it's him and he's just outted pretty hard.

    I explained why from a 'this game' perspective but I called him out for 'having a laugh' because he obviously knows I could, if I were mafia, find a feasible explanation to pretend he's mafia if I wanted. he knows me. i've been here a long time and a lot of the MU regulars know me. it doesn't take anyone even better than average to argue such things. so him saying this is clearly just a laugh given i'd just called him out for continuing to 'scum read' me. his reason was 'of course johnacarter was going to scum read me!' - even though I didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#752)
    JohnCarter is targeting Deli cause he has meta on me and knows I am town, so he doesn't know how he would case me.
    like lol no mate.

    As for gamestate Into, I agree, keeping the days going is ideal, optimal and best play. As is the case for almost any day, really. given in my eyes he's just outted himself hard that obviously doesn't matter anymore though.

    it depends because he's gonna keep trying to suckup to deli. whether they see through it or not is yet to be seen. on one hand, i can muster the energy of a new player in this game if I need, though like, it just seems really unnecessary.

    like no one is going to read a long winded post of mine that has him dead to rights. so, keep it simple.


    1) rigid in his approach, which, just doesn't happen from a town in mylo who has successively mislynched multiple times
    2) implicitly perspective slipping and writing posts from the perspective that deli is 100% town.
    3) explicitly defending deli so that he get's their vote. like sorry, but, that's not how a town operates when they have 2 other unknowns in the game.

    I could re-iterate that he had his forced interactions with axis but again, there's no need and that's going to continue to be up to perspective. simple is simple, and the simplest conclusion is most often the correct one.

  11. ISO #761
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 5 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    1 DENMON JohnCarter (14)
    1 JohnCarter DENMON (8)
    2 Not voting Intoewsables (3), Deli (0)

    View Vote History

    Day 5 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Monday, May 10th, 2021. There are 1620687660000 remaining.

  12. ISO #762
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    P#758 - You could say it's whiteknighting, or maybe it's just that your reason for sus-ing Deli didn't make that much sense.

    And if I am being a 'classic' wolf, then why did you townread me in the first place

    P#759 - Don't think I have the willpower for that, but if we hit like the 36 hr mark and you guys are still unsure, then sure I guess Dx

    P#760 - Wdym by 'rigid'. Like my mind won't change? Why would it change? Is town not allowed to have confidence? Intoewsables is confirmed, I think I have a good reason to clear Deli, and I have reasons to suspect Schweppes, so it's not that difficult for me to put my foot down and call you out.

    Again, you are scummier than Deli, and there is one red. You mention there are two unknowns, but you know that town is capable of solving and are able to figure out which one is mafia, right? It's not suddenly a guessing game cause it's LyLo/MyLo.

    Intoewsables, Deli, and you (I thought, but I was eventually right) were all gonna vote me if I said nothing, so yes, I am acting more of a way to get people's vote, cause I literally have to in my position. You should expect that. It's not scum-indicative, it's indicative of how many people scumread me. You would do the same in my position I bet.

    Again, it's not forced (P#742).

    Can you talk about the rest of my content? Cause this is the definition of cherry-picking

  13. ISO #763
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    using another post to say i lol'd at YOU saying i'm cherry picking given you picked one reason to scumread this slot then when that reason disappeared realised you were too far gone and came up with... whatever you're doing now

    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#762)

    P#760 - Wdym by 'rigid'. Like my mind won't change? Why would it change?
    Happy reading, maybe it can help you next time you wolf:

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...8by-Newcomb%29

    Quote Originally Posted by Newcomb (#17)

    2)

    Distinguishing real solving from fake solving.

    If there was an easy answer to this, then it would be a lot easier to be a villager.

    I'd say that one of the most fundamental things I look for is messy vs structured. Structured is maybe a bad way to put it, since of course lots of villagers put a lot of structure into their posts. Maybe "flowing from messiness into conversation" vs. "discreet points flowing into themselves."

    Ehh, not at all convinced that's better or more comprehensible. It's essentially the difference between spilling a bucket of paint onto a canvas, and trying to consciously paint a painting of a paint splatter.

    Real solving always flows from just like... random neurons firing when you read a post and some tiny part of your brain going "bad!" or "good!". And then you think about it for a couple seconds, and you explain to yourself why it's bad, and then you write a post where you translate that feeling into a couple sentences that hopefully let someone reading it see it through your eyes, take the same journey you did. But there's, like, a motion there. A movement. When we talk about villagers feeling like villagers because they're engaged, or relaxed, or "has a good thread presence," I think it's just shorthand for this.

    Real solving is like a waterfall - it's all moving in one direction generally but any individual moment can be almost random and nearly destructive in its chaos. But the further you step back away from it the easier it is to see how cohesive and flowing it really is.

    Fake solving is like a Plinko board. Yes, there's movement, but it's like... discreet steps, and it's always moving towards just a couple outcomes. An individual movement might look somewhat fluid, but if you look at the whole board, it's easy to see how structured and rigid it really is.



    anyway, sleep tight chaps, for those that don't know i'm from aus which is why you don't see me when you're probably all starting to wake now. forget not everyone knows that sometimes.

  14. ISO #764
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#763)
    using another post to say i lol'd at YOU saying i'm cherry picking given you picked one reason to scumread this slot then when that reason disappeared realised you were too far gone and came up with... whatever you're doing now

    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#762)

    P#760 - Wdym by 'rigid'. Like my mind won't change? Why would it change?
    Happy reading, maybe it can help you next time you wolf:

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...8by-Newcomb%29

    Quote Originally Posted by Newcomb (#17)

    2)

    Distinguishing real solving from fake solving.

    If there was an easy answer to this, then it would be a lot easier to be a villager.

    I'd say that one of the most fundamental things I look for is messy vs structured. Structured is maybe a bad way to put it, since of course lots of villagers put a lot of structure into their posts. Maybe "flowing from messiness into conversation" vs. "discreet points flowing into themselves."

    Ehh, not at all convinced that's better or more comprehensible. It's essentially the difference between spilling a bucket of paint onto a canvas, and trying to consciously paint a painting of a paint splatter.

    Real solving always flows from just like... random neurons firing when you read a post and some tiny part of your brain going "bad!" or "good!". And then you think about it for a couple seconds, and you explain to yourself why it's bad, and then you write a post where you translate that feeling into a couple sentences that hopefully let someone reading it see it through your eyes, take the same journey you did. But there's, like, a motion there. A movement. When we talk about villagers feeling like villagers because they're engaged, or relaxed, or "has a good thread presence," I think it's just shorthand for this.

    Real solving is like a waterfall - it's all moving in one direction generally but any individual moment can be almost random and nearly destructive in its chaos. But the further you step back away from it the easier it is to see how cohesive and flowing it really is.

    Fake solving is like a Plinko board. Yes, there's movement, but it's like... discreet steps, and it's always moving towards just a couple outcomes. An individual movement might look somewhat fluid, but if you look at the whole board, it's easy to see how structured and rigid it really is.



    anyway, sleep tight chaps, for those that don't know i'm from aus which is why you don't see me when you're probably all starting to wake now. forget not everyone knows that sometimes.
    What? Did you miss the wallpost I made over Schweppes? What is the one reason that I simply forgot about? What are you thinking is my case right now?

    I'm not reading the guide fully, but I'm confused by the point you are trying to make? What should I be doing besides considering Deli for some reason?

  15. ISO #765
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#658)
    why is denmon alive lol, every game I’ve played or seen of him he dies n1
    Can you clarify this

  16. ISO #766
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 5 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    1 DENMON JohnCarter (15)
    1 JohnCarter DENMON (11)
    2 Not voting Intoewsables (3), Deli (0)

    View Vote History

    Day 5 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Monday, May 10th, 2021. There are 1620687660000 remaining.

  17. ISO #767
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Wtf. Whichever one of you is a villager is doing a horrible job. I'm not going to take responsibility for this when we lose. Wtf.

    There is an entire day and a third left and you two are burning through posts like you don't need to clear yourself !!

  18. ISO #768
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    Vote by Proxy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deli
    ##Vote No Lynch
    It is now 11:11:49 AM EDT on Sunday, May 9th, 2021. There are 1620687660000 remaining.

  19. ISO #769
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intoewsables (#734)
    Even though I'm fairly certain it's DENMON, the optimal play here is to force an F3 and vote sleep.

    Just checking, is voting "no lynch" the same as voting "sleep"? I didn't see a "sleep" option in the vote thing at the bottom of the page.

  20. ISO #770
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    April Ultra-Low Postcount Game Day 5 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    1 DENMON JohnCarter (15)
    1 JohnCarter DENMON (11)
    1 Sleep Deli (2)
    1 Not voting Intoewsables (3)

    View Vote History

    Day 5 ends at 7:00 PM EDT on Monday, May 10th, 2021. There are 1620687660000 remaining.

  21. ISO #771
    Thread Analyst Intoewsables's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#769)
    Quote Originally Posted by Intoewsables (#734)
    Even though I'm fairly certain it's DENMON, the optimal play here is to force an F3 and vote sleep.

    Just checking, is voting "no lynch" the same as voting "sleep"? I didn't see a "sleep" option in the vote thing at the bottom of the page.
    Looks like they're the same thing, yeah.

    Pretend today is F3 between you, JC, and DENMON. Who are you voting for?

  22. ISO #772
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intoewsables (#734)
    Ev

    Looks like they're the same thing, yeah.

    Pretend today is F3 between you, JC, and DENMON. Who are you voting for?
    still rereading but it seems like DENMON.

  23. ISO #773
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AXIS (#326)
    Quote Originally Posted by ducktacoswag (#131)
    The depth of denmon’s thoughts continues to be good. I liked p#35 for a weird reason too, i guess just needing to make another post because he wanted to respond so badly pings me as town

    p#38 niph don’t agree with all of her takes, but i mindmeld with her over the mont read thing so i like her for now

    I dislike schweppes vote on baseball in p#48 because i found him towny

    I don’t really like any of marnie’s posts or how he seems to jump on people for irrelevant reasons. Although.. Now that i think of it, the last game i played, a wolf was one of the first people to start vca before an actual red flip, so he could be onto something. I’d probably read him based on the accuracy of his reads, because i don’t think i’m going to get much in terms of content

    Despite what i said about axis before, i kind of like the quick transition between p#105 and p#106. It at least feels like he’s trying to sort through his thoughts organically, even though i disagree with the read on rotte. @AXIS - why is schweppes town? I agree with your other TRs but why him?

    p#126 makes me feel better about deli i think? I don’t know people here so i’m fine relying on other’s meta for d1

    I dislike the top 2 wagons. But i’m also not comfortable with my axis vote anymore. I’d like to go in mont/marnie/schweppes, i think?

    like p#69 from mont isn't great, i glazed over it before..

    ##Vote Schweppes bad vibes though, bsball push doesn't look in good faith
    This is my favourite post of yours.

    This what I’m talking about.

    This kind of post is the sort of thing that makes me consider you being town as you clearly explain your progression. The bit about me particularly feels pure.


    But it’s in stark contrast to the rest of your posts. This uneveness feels like it’s a struggle to replicate your town game.


    You are doing better Explaining your town reads and weak explaining your scum reads.

    That’s exactly what I expect to see from a wolf. As when taking about town you can be honest. When your fake casing a town and twisting them as scum. It all falls over and you struggle.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#358)
    Oh I forgot to do Schweppes and Niphredil.

    Meta-wise, both are town imo, but I know that I gotta bring non-meta reasons here.

    Niphredil obviously has a notable posting style, so she has to replicate it in her scum game as well. As a result, you do need to look at her reasons more. She comes off as unconfident/unsure tonally naturally, so I wouldn't judge her off of that.

    Tonal reads are always bad, cause people that sound good can easily sway people, so really do look at the content.

    I may not be able to post much today until tomorrow morning. Maybe I'll do a Niphredil read. I feel like I got two scum down in my team, so maybe there is one between Niphredil/Schweppes, but not gonna say that with any confidence until I do an in-depth read on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schweppes (#369)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schweppes (#323)
    ##Vote AXIS

    XDXDXDXDXDXD
    Imagine thinking reading AXIS is hard.

    You literally straight-up lied about your past experience with me. WDYM I should have you in my towncore? I literally had you in my POE all the way through D2 of the last game we were v in together.
    @BoKnows
    @bsball8806
    @Ciderhead
    @Deli
    @DENMON
    @ducktacoswag
    @Intoewsables
    @Marnie
    @niphredil

    Uhhh hello? AXIS is literally confscum FMPOV, so you can either just trust me and yeet him or you can just not trust me and keep lolling.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#371)
    Ayyyy, nice shot lol

    That's 1/3 of my scumteam. I do still think BoKnows is the second one. Third one, I'm not 100% confident on.

    P#369 - This comes off as really weird, cause that means Schweppes spent 12 minutes making that post, which is kinda eh. I think Schweppes from a scum perspective may have been looking to get cleared, but idk.

    Some really simple analysis before I really get into it cause this is kinda useful:

    AXIS voted ducktacoswag and Marnie. Not including Rotte cause he is dead.

    ducktacoswag, Deli, bsball8806, and Schweppes all voted AXIS. Not gonna include Ciderhead cause it was a joke vote, and not gonna include Intoewsables cause he is cleared. Schweppes I almost was not going to include, because Schweppes bussed hardcore in my last game when he was red.

    That remains Niphredil, Ciderhead, and BoKnows. There is always one person in this group (I would say at least 0 if AXIS was lynched). You can also include Schweppes in there cause of meta reasons. You can also add Deli in there as well if you read my reasoning on why I think AXIS and Deli might be w/w, but I'll still be salty if Deli is red.

    I'll ISO people and see where people mentioned AXIS, then maybe if I have time, I'll do a deep read on the people on missed in my wallpost.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#372)
    bsball8806 seems pretty good when looking at AXIS, and it's better knowing that bsball8806 actually voted AXIS.

    AXIS interacts with bsball8806 in the beginning of the game, and gives bsball8806 some pressure where I would think scummates wouldn't apply it. Posts I am looking at are P#26 and P#42 (my favorite one). Really P#42 is kind of the one that adds the most towniness to bsball8806 to me. On top of other reasons to townread bsball8806, I think this slot is solid.

    P#105 and P#106 are his readlists, with him later following up with P#288. Usually reds have one member, if not both, near the red pile for that towncred, while the other one can be kinda anywhere tbh. Not sure but my initial guess is Ciderhead, since AXIS moved him from Null to Maybe Scum with little focus on Ciderhead at all. He also has no comments on Ciderhead for a nullread/scumread. Same could be said with BoKnows. AXIS has Marnie and ducktacoswag in his nullreads and scumreads, and their movement in AXIS' reads are pretty similar, but I bet you guys can use your memory and conclude that the difference between how he treats those two scumreads to his other scumreads are STARK.

    If it is actually Ciderhead/BoKnows, then I am actually good at the game.

    Niphredil is also someone that I should talk about. AXIS doesn't really talk to Niphredil at all either, so you could use that as evidence, but AXIS had niphredil as a townread immediately, but you are expected to communicate with your scumreads more than your townreads, so Ciderhead looks worse imo. At least with BoKnows, he barely has any posts to react to, so I guess he is at the same level as Niphredil.

    Gonna look at other people's posts now
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#373)
    So I am first gonna do this by using ctrl-f on every page and see what is noteworthy.

    P#10 - This is Ciderhead's joke vote. It's about 50/50 if someone who votes a red as a joke is actually red from experience tbh.

    P#32 - Deli does talk a good amount about AXIS here.

    P#38 - Niphredil townreads AXIS off of meta. NAI

    P#45 - bsball8806's read on AXIS. Sounds natural for only the first page. Or you could say it's NAI. Your pick.

    P#47 - Not sure if there was enough information to say that AXIS was not normal. Might be TMI.

    Gonna ignore ducktacoswag cause he's basically cleared imo.

    Not much on the second page

    P#113 - "yeah axis is just town here lol" - Wouldn't put it behind niphredil to be able to say that, but niphredil gets some town points.

    Also since when did niphredil not have a capital 'N'.

    P#134 - Deli suggests an AXIS lynch. I can give some town points here.

    P#145 - Schweppes talks about AXIS on his own volition here. I do think Schweppes is capable of doing that as scum, but it makes me hesitant regardless.

    P#160 - I mentioned this before, but gonna bring it up again because now it's like 3x better now that AXIS flipped red. I said before that bsball8806 looked towny for moving AXIS from town to scum with no progression, then when asked to elaborate on the read, bsball8806 recalls a post made on page 1, which meant that bsball8806 reread the thread and reevaluated, which was what I thought was towny. But now, AXIS flipped. That means that if bsball8806 was red, that means that bsball8806 would have taken a townread on his scummate, and out of the blue, move him to a scumread from a post that he originally townread. If he originally townread it, then he could have kept that reasoning to make his partner look better. If you guys don't clear bsball8806 yet, then you're bad, sorry.

    P#163 and P#164 - bsball8806 mentions AXIS in his next 2 posts, which means that bsball8806 is really thinking about voting him.

    P#171 - Schweppes talks more about AXIS than other people imo. Here Schweppes wants to keep AXIS around even though AXIS is a scumlean due to meta reasons. Elaboration might be useful, cause idk what to say about it.

    P#178 and P#179 - Ciderhead talks about AXIS here. Should be doable from a red perspective.

    P#286 - Schweppes talks about AXIS. NAI probably? Idk

    P#323 - Not gonna repeat myself here

    P#338 - niphredil talks about AXIS here. niphredil still wants to townread AXIS for meta reasons, but she adds a reason to scumread him anyway. Some towny points here but not a lot cause it is kinda doable.

    P#360 !!!

    bsball8806 is confirmed town. Deli is kinda towny, but there are other reasons to townread Deli rn anyway. Niphredil also seems decent. Ciderhead looks pretty bad, with Schweppes being slightly better imo.

    Sleeping is boring, so gonna do vote history stuff with Schweppes and niphredil, or at least Schweppes
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#374)
    I guess I can talk about both cause they barely voted. niphredil's behavior is NAI. niphredil voted, which is expected, and that was about it. niphredil essentially left the day after that, so I can't say that I expected movement or more pushing/aggression from niphredil. There just isn't enough information.

    Schweppes first vote is NAI. Something pinged Schweppes, so he voted that person. Reds can be naturally pinged in the first few pages when people enter, cause they don't have enough content a lot of the times to be able to be read.

    Schweppes vote change from Deli to bsball8806 might be towny cause there was no reason to move there. Schweppes said that he wasn't wasting his vote when voted Deli (who had one vote at the time), so eh. But at the end of the day, Schweppes move to bsball8806 to make a statement essentially, and it wasn't that the Deli wagon dissolved, cause it didn't when Schweppes voted. (I was the other vote on the wagon; I unvoted, but there was no way for Schweppes to have seen that I unvoted due to lack of time left in the day). Scum!Schweppes would have stayed on Deli imo.

    So it's Ciderhead/BoKnows I guess
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#390)
    I forgot that AXIS pushed Schweppes, which is still different to how he talks about Ciderhead, so Schweppes feels a lot better here.

    I guess for PoE purposes, I'll add niphredil, cause there is a good amount that could be NAI, but I feel like niphredil has enough towny points where I kinda like my team right now.

    Also it's true that niphredil's voting history is worse than Ciderheads, but that's mostly because niphredil was absent for the later half of the day, so it appears that way.

    Can someone point out niphredil's scummiest posts and why it's scummy that doesn't include AXIS as part of the reasoning.

    Also, in 2 hours, I'm gonna have to go afk, so I won't be able to post after that. Maybe I can check on my phone, but I won't post anything substantial.

    I'm interested in what Ciderhead has to say about me :P

    Marnie, why is the pressure that AXIS and ducktacoswag applied more likely to be buddies than just some regular red vs town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schweppes (#410)
    I'm inclined to say duck is fine although it would be extremely helpful for him to provide links or something to verify whether there's actually a meta difference in Marnie's play. That being said, I actually thought Marnie's accusations of TMI were an element of duck's normal town playstyle and I feel that Marnie should know this. They have played together before right? And Duck is towny and I daresay not out of the ordinary ..., even if he still believes I must have some TMI to know this, it just leaks thru.

    TL;DR If there's scum in duck/marnie pair, its definitely marnie.

    Actually, I have no idea why w!Marnie tries starting a dome unless niph is his partner tbh.
    Outside of niph, who I cannot read for the life of me (they are definitely doing less both-sidesing than they were doing in their last scum game tho), the least towny player overall, not just even based on AXIS spew is BoKnows. Little content and voting toews is literally just making up things to fill up space.

    AXIS spew means I can ignore Deli, bsballs for now.

    I haven't caught DENOMON saying something crazy yet so he should be good.

    Cider isn't obv town, sad. Light format?
    Quote Originally Posted by Schweppes (#425)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhead (#423)
    Why not niph?
    If niph was AXIS' partner I really don't think they have the balls to call him obvtown, just by comparing to previous niphs.
    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#477)
    Oh, I forgot that when a red flips, you should probably look at spew.

    I'll do that tomorrow as well.

    And I think AXIS/Marnie aren't a team, cause there was a section where AXIS explained why he was going after ducktacoswag rather than Marnie, then ducktacoswag mentioned something about meta, then AXIS looked at the meta, and said 'wow, there's a crazy difference!' and moved onto Marnie. I thought it was really weird progression to have on a scum partner, especially considering how I looked at the meta ducktacoswag was talking about, and couldn't really tell what was so obvious from a perspective from someone who hasn't played that game with Marnie, like what should be AXIS' perspective as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deli (#554)
    Quote Originally Posted by BoKnows (#553)
    bk has greater town equity than schweepe
    Says you

    eyes glazing over from reading so many ducking walls of text from DENMON- his logic is often inconsistent and saying so little with so many words. Schweppes/JC also wolfy tho, lot going on this game is hard, if we lose because it isn’t DENMON it is 100% DENMON’s fault lol

    .

  24. ISO #774
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    P#767 - How am I doing a terrible job? I'm presenting you the case, and I'm telling you that it's the guy that has been in everyone's PoE all game now. Like, what should I be doing differently here, cause idk. Ya, my tone is different, but that's cause I have conf bias now, as should anyone in my slot. That might be the only weird part, and that's not even weird if you think about it.

    If you won't answer now, then you gotta answer post-game

    P#773 - Inconsistent is towny. Obviously it's not like I can convince you otherwise, but I have never seen such logic catch scum, mostly town. I'm jumping all over the place because I am thinking about everything, and I am unconfident on my scumreads. Reds tend to stay on certain people longer and don't change reads, cause they aren't sure how to transition themselves.

    And I 100% disagree that I use too many words. I explain what I am thinking thoroughly so people don't need to ask questions.

    Can you explain what parts of my reads are inconsistent? I can explain my thought process fairly easily.

    Or if you prefer, and this is probably the best option, is to select a time when you are available and when I am available, and we can have a real-time conversation about it. This applies to Intoewsables too.

    I am available now, but I am gonna eat soon, I can also appear in two hours, and can keep refreshing for an hour (7-8 EST) Or I can appear during that same window tomorrow morning (12 hours later).

    There's no way I'm gonna have us lose

  25. ISO #775
    Soul Reader DENMON's Avatar
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    Why did you guys even townread me anyway if all of my posts are bad and inconsistent

  26. ISO #776
    Thread Analyst Intoewsables's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENMON (#775)
    Why did you guys even townread me anyway if all of my posts are bad and inconsistent
    To be honest, I've never really read you as town this game. You've been pretty null for me all game which is pretty odd. You slipped through the cracks a bit because everyone else seemed to be town reading you up until recently.

    Who did you want to lynch last round? I know you voted bsball but was he your top scum read, or was that just out of self-preservation?

  27. ISO #777
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    Vote by Proxy

    Quote Originally Posted by Intoewsables
    ##Vote No Lynch
    It is now 6:23:44 PM EDT on Sunday, May 9th, 2021. There are 1620687660000 remaining.

  28. ISO #778
    Bandwagoner Deli's Avatar
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    Imagine being in f4, being the top lunch contender, and thinking you’re not doing a bad job if you’re a villager lol

    I’m just teasing because I feel really stressed about making the right choice rn, tbh I haven’t townread you all game. You’ve seemed wolfy from the start and I said as much throughout the game. If at any point I did soft you villa, it was because of POE or sheeping onto other villagers. I don’t want to make the wrong choice, but I’m not convinced strongly one way or another, you both seem wolfy and I’m not seeing either of you convincing me you aren’t the wolf I’m struggling !!

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