Resolved [Suggestion] Non-Consecutive should be a modifier, never a default.
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[Suggestion] Non-Consecutive should be a modifier, never a default.
There's been a lot of discussion about ModBot's functionality and the lack of clarity surrounding some of its mechanics, and while I do think there are some actual outright issues that need to be fixed in this regard, I would like to take a moment to suggest that Non-Consecutive should be treated as a modifier, not as a default for certain types of roles. This would help to lower confusion significantly, and setups could just be designed with, for example, a "Non-Consecutive Doctor" rather than just a "Doctor." And while Doctor in particular being non-consecutive by default makes sense, the lines between what is and isn't non-consecutive by default are very blurry at the moment - for example, in the current champs setup, the Doctor, Roleblocker, and technically the Vigilante are all non-consecutive, while the Motion Detector is able to visit the same target twice in a row, which has caused confusion even amongst longtime players and MU staff. It seems worth it to me to just make it an explicit modifier rather than burying it at the end of the paragraph explaining how a given role works.
Last edited by Makaze; July 18th, 2021 at 09:32 PM.
This makes it very clear to anyone regardless of their usual site culture plus it simply adds flexibility and avoids needing to ever consider it with future roles too since it can simply be tacked on
Come wayward souls,
Who wander through the darkness,
There is a light for the lost and the meek.
Originally Posted by LordQuas
You don't have to do anything except die
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
i think it's especially relevant with partner communities being a pretty substantial thing, but i also think this is just a reasonable customization option/design decision to have for the hosts to make
this would also prevent oopses like someone assuming that a consec role is nonconsec while randing since then you can easily set it and theres a clear indicator to set it bc its not default instead of guessing what roles its default on
Last edited by Hornet; July 9th, 2021 at 03:18 PM.
Apparently I gotta thank that Abrakadabra person for hosting the game. It says here they did an excellent job with the setup and the discord server chats and finding crack replacement players, or replacement players who were on crack, whichever it may be.
Originally Posted by Ezradekezra1646625550
(#14339)
Devil's advocate, a lot of people are oblivious to bad game design, and consecutive by default on doctor especially is going to lead to more bad games.
I'm not sure on the fly how I'd implement it in a way that isn't convoluted and confusing, but I feel like consecutive rather than non as the manually applied modifier is a happier middle ground.
Devil's advocate, a lot of people are oblivious to bad game design, and consecutive by default on doctor especially is going to lead to more bad games.
I'm not sure on the fly how I'd implement it in a way that isn't convoluted and confusing, but I feel like consecutive rather than non as the manually applied modifier is a happier middle ground.
yeah my worry is people will forget to make roles non-consecutive in setups where they definitely should be
i dunno how much of an issue that will actually be in practice though
Originally Posted by staypositivefriend1602730070
(#19)
tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
Originally Posted by ran
How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
- Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
- If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃＞＿＜;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
- On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.
I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.
I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.
I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:
Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:
One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.
Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.
Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:
So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:
(Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).
Which looks something like this:
(Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)
Devil's advocate, a lot of people are oblivious to bad game design, and consecutive by default on doctor especially is going to lead to more bad games.
I'm not sure on the fly how I'd implement it in a way that isn't convoluted and confusing, but I feel like consecutive rather than non as the manually applied modifier is a happier middle ground.
Devil's advocate, a lot of people are oblivious to bad game design, and consecutive by default on doctor especially is going to lead to more bad games.
I'm not sure on the fly how I'd implement it in a way that isn't convoluted and confusing, but I feel like consecutive rather than non as the manually applied modifier is a happier middle ground.
yeah my worry is people will forget to make roles non-consecutive in setups where they definitely should be
i dunno how much of an issue that will actually be in practice though
We can probably eliminate this problem by asking them if they meant consecutive and explaining the difference: if they say yes, leave it, if not, make it non-consec before adding.
Last edited by Makaze; July 9th, 2021 at 06:41 PM.
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
yeah for roles that are currently non-consecutive by default you could have a pop up or something that comes up when the role is added and says “are you sure you want this role to be able to target consecutively? <blurb about why that might be unbalanced depending on the setup>“
Originally Posted by staypositivefriend1602730070
(#19)
tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
Originally Posted by ran
How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
- Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
- If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃＞＿＜;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
- On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.
I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.
I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.
I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:
Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:
One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.
Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.
Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:
So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:
(Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).
Which looks something like this:
(Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)
You could also have the Non-Consecutive modifier set by default when someone adds the role to their setup (possibly with a pop-up window alerting them to this).
Forcing everyone to use a modifier for a role that is used almost exclusively instead of the plain role (e.g. Doctor | Non-consecutive, Non-self-targeting)
So you said this on another thread, and I feel like it's applicable to this suggestion so I'm pulling it back here.
The issue is that, while it is kinda clunky for things like the Doctor to need to specify Non-Consecutive and Non-Self Targeting, I think Non-Consecutive in particular is something that a lot of places just don't have in their standard roles (even if they arguably should) and therefore deserves to be specifically included in the role title, or at the very least much more clearly stated in the role card than current. However, given the lines between what is and isn't non-consecutive by default are so blurry, I'd still advocate for just making it a specific modifier. I'm all for having it enabled by default for the roles that currently have it, but it should still be made clearer to players.
If nothing else, the amount of players messing up mechanics (and sometimes netting clears for it) in Champs is indicative of the system as is not being easily understandable to newer players, which is just an issue.
As for the non-self-targeting bit:
Originally Posted by orangeandblack51625948268
(#5)
Also, regarding self-targeting - I would probably make "Self-Targeting" a modifier rather than "Non-self Targeting" - I could be wrong in the context of MU but from my experience most roles generally can't self-target elsewhere, and things like Watcher being able to do it here are already kinda weird in my opinion.
I'd much rather see "Self-Targeting" as a modifier than "Non-Self Targeting" and then just make it clear that unless specified otherwise roles cannot self-target.
Last edited by orangeandblack5; July 12th, 2021 at 05:01 PM.
Forcing everyone to use a modifier for a role that is used almost exclusively instead of the plain role (e.g. Doctor | Non-consecutive, Non-self-targeting)
So you said this on another thread, and I feel like it's applicable to this suggestion so I'm pulling it back here.
The issue is that, while it is kinda clunky for things like the Doctor to need to specify Non-Consecutive and Non-Self Targeting, I think Non-Consecutive in particular is something that a lot of places just don't have in their standard roles (even if they arguably should) and therefore deserves to be specifically included in the role title, or at the very least much more clearly stated in the role card than current. However, given the lines between what is and isn't non-consecutive by default, I'd still advocate for just making it a specific modifier. I'm all for having it enabled by default for the roles that currently have it, but it should still be made clearer to players.
If nothing else, the amount of players messing up mechanics (and sometimes netting clears for it) in Champs is indicative of the system as is not being easily understandable to newer players, which is just an issue.
As for the non-self-targeting bit:
Originally Posted by orangeandblack51625948268
(#5)
Also, regarding self-targeting - I would probably make "Self-Targeting" a modifier rather than "Non-self Targeting" - I could be wrong in the context of MU but from my experience most roles generally can't self-target elsewhere, and things like Watcher being able to do it here are already kinda weird in my opinion.
I'd much rather see "Self-Targeting" as a modifier than "Non-Self Targeting" and then just make it clear that unless specified otherwise roles cannot self-target.
agree with all of this
also want to add: i thought watcher was nconsec by default. it wasnt. this kind of thing would /make that clear/ and prevent that exact mistake
As someone who came from a community where what was "normal" was very different from here, a lot of things that now seem obvious weren't really clear to me back then, and I think new people often have issues like this.
Originally Posted by orangeandblack51626113950
(#12)
As for the non-self-targeting bit:
Originally Posted by orangeandblack51625948268
(#5)
Also, regarding self-targeting - I would probably make "Self-Targeting" a modifier rather than "Non-self Targeting" - I could be wrong in the context of MU but from my experience most roles generally can't self-target elsewhere, and things like Watcher being able to do it here are already kinda weird in my opinion.
I'd much rather see "Self-Targeting" as a modifier than "Non-Self Targeting" and then just make it clear that unless specified otherwise roles cannot self-target.
If you go this route I believe you'd want to call it Self-Targetable rather than Self-Targeting so that it cannot be misunderstood.
I have no idea why anyone would be confused by the differences between a doctor/roleblock and a motion detector.
If it blocks or protects, it's non consecutive.
If it doesn't, it's not.
People (and staff!?) being "confused"...i don't get that at all.
If you've never knew this was a thing...then that's totally fair. The modifier won't prevent you from having to learn something new though...and it's probably something you will want to learn ASAP if you are playing most games on MU.
If a doctor and a jailkeeper are in the same game, they cannot consecutively target the same player (whether they know what the other person did the night before or not...the second protection will fail).
People just have to learn this rule.
(The fact that Champs players don't know it is not a surprise though)
i think it's especially relevant with partner communities being a pretty substantial thing, but i also think this is just a reasonable customization option/design decision to have for the hosts to make
The odds of a setup with a consecutive doctor passing review are very very low
Apparently I gotta thank that Abrakadabra person for hosting the game. It says here they did an excellent job with the setup and the discord server chats and finding crack replacement players, or replacement players who were on crack, whichever it may be.
Originally Posted by Ezradekezra1646625550
(#14339)
If a doctor and a jailkeeper are in the same game, they cannot consecutively target the same player (whether they know what the other person did the night before or not...the second protection will fail).
People just have to learn this rule.
(The fact that Champs players don't know it is not a surprise though)
Well, we've both been around for as long as the site has existed and one of us is completely mistaken about whether what you just wrote is true. Which is bad for your position regardless of which of us it is.
If a doctor and a jailkeeper are in the same game, they cannot consecutively target the same player (whether they know what the other person did the night before or not...the second protection will fail).
People just have to learn this rule.
(The fact that Champs players don't know it is not a surprise though)
Well, we've both been around for as long as the site has existed and one of us is completely mistaken about whether what you just wrote is true. Which is bad for your position regardless of which of us it is.
Congrats on learning a new rule
Did this discussion on modifiers not teach it to you before i mentioned it? If not then i think my position is fine
Actually, this is untrue! The Bodyguard role is unambiguously protective -- it saves a player from death. However, it can also target the same player on consecutive nights. For an example of this happening in an automated game, see here, where Foxfalls, the Bodyguard, protected Hydreigon25 on both Night 1 and Night 2.
No basic roles should be nonconsec by default, except possibly a doctor's ability to self protect. That's simply obvious and standard practice, right?
The purpose of a doctor is to be able to keep an identified important town player alive until the doctor is stopped, and the purpose of a (mafia) roleblocker is to act as anticlaim and sit on outed town power roles.
That's the entire point of those roles. A nonconsec doctor is an extremely weak role, barely a doctor at all, and leads to a lot of undesired gameplay where it's basically "1 Shot Phase Extender" because all it can do is get one save and force a sleep day at MYLO.
We've seen a lot of trouble in these champs setups from people seeing "doctor" and overvaluing the role, thinking it can actually do something useful.
Similarly, a roleblocker or jailer that can't find and sit on a target is pretty useless unless the setup is doing something extra with it (like taking away a 1-shot vig's ammo if they try to shoot when blocked).
What about designing setups that aren't broken by a PR being able to target the same person twice?
The problem: Cop and Doctor exist. Cop claims. Doctor saves them over and over. Mafia must kill the doctor.
Mafia's approach: Unless they are absolutely sure about who the Doctor is, they cannot afford to bet on roleblocking the Doctor. Therefore, their best option is to roleblock the Cop repeatedly and try to shoot the Doctor.
If both the Roleblocker and the Doctor can target consecutively, then the game is on a WIFOM lock down based around following the cop. This continues until the Doctor is killed. The cop will not get another peek after they have claimed as long as the Mafia Roleblocker is alive.
This makes the cop early claiming counter-productive and reduces the cop's utility. The cop's best time to claim is a scenario where the Mafia Roleblocker has been eliminated and the Doctor is still alive, or in the late game. It is usually late in the game when a Roleblocker gets eliminated, statistically.
Replace Cop with some other very important role that the Doctor will want to save and you get the same problem.
Even if all of the Mafia are Roleblockers, using their kill on the Cop each night until they block the right person leaves them with a potential deathless Night.
Locked actions just are not as fun to play with, if you ask me.
Last edited by Makaze; July 14th, 2021 at 10:11 PM.
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
MU is the weird site for having these weak nonconsecutive variant roles be modbot standard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(this post is written slightly satirically but yeah MU has a *lot* of norms that are not norms elsewhere.)
98% of other websites who play mafia don't know what they're doing. And i include my own homesite in that list.
You play here and realize you never had any idea.
(this post is written slightly satirically)
A consecutive targetting doctor in a game with even one of Sunbae, Newcomb, Ladd etc. (as villagers)
MU is the weird site for having these weak nonconsecutive variant roles be modbot standard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(this post is written slightly satirically but yeah MU has a *lot* of norms that are not norms elsewhere.)
98% of other websites who play mafia don't know what they're doing. And i include my own homesite in that list.
You play here and realize you never had any idea.
(this post is written slightly satirically)
A non-consecutive doctor in a game with even one of Sunbae, Newcomb, Ladd etc. (as villagers)
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
I think that people's stances on this come purely from how they envision the website
Including the non-consec modifier is for the people who want simplicity and clarity
Not including it is for people who want to hand-hold to teach new players instead of leaving them in the dark
I respect both sides of this particular coin and while I personally side with the first, I don't think it would hurt to at least make the non-consecutiveness of the Doctor/Roleblocker role more visible in the automated rolecards, given that this confusion is a thing and
Sticking it to the players for not reading closely enough, while it may be partially true, doesn't mean that we shouldn't be helping them anyways
Kyukon has died. They were: {/HIDE_FROM_FLIP} {HIDE_FROM_FLIP} Doctor.
Role PM for bonk pt 2
You are Mafia Doctor. You win when you overpower the Town and are the only evil faction remaining.
As Mafia, you have access to the Factional Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless protected. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.
If no {/HIDE_FROM_FLIP}
Night 1 has ended.
Night 1 ended at 9:04 PM EDT on Tuesday, April 20th, 2021.
You are [COLOR={FACTION_COLOR_GENERATED_DURING_RAND}]Macho 9-Shot Backup Mafia Jack of All Trades (x6 Jailkeeper, x9 Roleblocker, x6 Vigilante, x9 Poisoner) | x9 Strongman | x6 Ninja | Cycle 69 | Even Cycle | Odd Cycle | Recluse | Godfather | x6 Bulletproof Vest | Vengeful. You win when you overpower the Town and are the only evil faction remaining.{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} Your teammates are: {/HIDE_FROM_FLIP}{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} Team {TEAM_MEMBERS_GENERATED_DURING_RAND}{/HIDE_FROM_FLIP} As [COLOR={FACTION_COLOR_GENERATED_DURING_RAND}]Mafia[/COLOR], you have access to the Factional Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless protected. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. If no {/HIDE_FROM_FLIP}{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the living non-{/HIDE_FROM_FLIP}{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} players. Mafia Jack Of All Trades As [COLOR={FACTION_COLOR_GENERATED_DURING_RAND}]Mafia Jack Of All Trades[/COLOR], you have access to one or more night actions. x6 Jailkeeper You have access to the Jailkeeping Night Action. Jailkeeping another player will both protect that player from being killed as well as prevent that player from being able to successfully use their Night Action that night. You will not learn whether your target was successfully protected from any kills, nor will you learn whether your target had a Night Action. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. You cannot target the same player on consecutive nights. x9 Roleblocker You have access to the Roleblocking Night Action. Roleblocking another player prevents them from being able to successfully use any Night Action that they might have that night. You will not learn whether your target had a Night Action. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. You cannot target the same player on consecutive nights. x6 Vigilante You have access to the Shoot Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless protected. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. x9 Poisoner You have access to the Poison Night Action. Players you target with this action will have their poisoned status announced at the beginning of the following Day. Poisoned players will die if they are not healed by the end of the Day. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. Submit your Night Action each night using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. If you do not submit an action, you will forego your action on that day. Keep in mind that if you have multiple uses of your abilities, you must cycle through all of them before being allowed to reuse any of them. Backup The Backup modifier makes your role dormant and unusable until a non-Backup version of the same role dies. If a player with a non-Backup version of your role dies, you will take their place and be able to perform your actions. Cycle X The Cycle X modifier makes your role restricted to one cycle. You may act during that cycle but will be unable to act before and after. You can act on Cycle 69 in this game. Macho The Macho modifier makes your role immune to protection abilities. Doctors, Firefighters, Bodyguards, and all other protection powers will not work on you. X-Shot The X-Shot modifier limits the number of times you can use your Night actions. If you spend all of your shots then you will not be able to use Night actions anymore. You have 9 shots at the start of the game. BPV (Bulletproof Vest) The BPV modifier gives you one or more Bulletproof Vests that passively protect you from one shot each. Each time you are shot, your number of BPVs will decrease by one. If you lose all of your BPVs then you can be killed like everyone else. You will not be notified if a BPV is broken. You have 6 BPVs at the start of the game. Strongman The Strongman modifier makes ordinary killing actions cut through all roleblocking and protection, including factional kills. You have 9 Strongman shots at the start of the game. All shots after that will be handled normally. Even Night The Even Night modifier limits you to only submit Night actions on Even numbered Nights. Odd Night The Odd Night modifier limits you to only submit Night actions on Odd numbered Nights. Ninja The Ninja modifier makes you immune to Watching and Tracking actions. You will not be included in Track or Watch reports. You have 6 Ninja actions at the start of the game. All actions after that will be handled normally. Godfather The Godfather modifier makes you immune to Cop inspections. You will be viewed as Town if inspected by an Alignment Cop and as a Vanilla Town if inspected by a Full Cop. Recluse The Recluse modifier is a Mafia-only modifier that causes your identity to be hidden from the rest of the team. You still count for parity. You may only submit the factional kill if there are no non-Recluse team members alive. Vengeful The Vengeful modifier gives you access to the Revenge Kill action. This action allows you to choose a player who will be shot upon your death. Submit your action using the form below the game thread. You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} {ROLE_PM_FOOTER_LINKS}{/HIDE_FROM_FLIP} Day Vigilante[/COLOR].
Day 1 has ended.
Day 1 ended at 6:01 PM EDT on Tuesday, April 20th, 2021.
Assuming customization doesn't add unnecessary complication, I see no reason to prevent it. Having baseline roles with clear modifiers, and the ability to change those modifiers, seems like a net good.
Any worries about "bad setups" are self-resolving. Players are not simpletons who will play the first game they see. They can and do associate hosts with certain vibes. Hosts with bad or unsteady reputations can work with reviewers to put out a vetted setup if they are having issues balancing or if they need to rehab their trust level with the community. Players who don't like what a host put out will simply not play that host's games.
Wanting to prevent customization in the name of an intended playing experience seems a little pointless. I don't think the sanctity of the "right way to play" is in any way compromised by offering choice.
Non-consecutive is now a modifier that you get suggested to add to Doctor, Jailkeeper and Roleblocker roles. It is automatically added to Doctor in all of the conventional setups.
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
Non-consecutive is now a modifier that you get suggested to add to Doctor, Jailkeeper and Roleblocker roles. It is automatically added to Doctor in all of the conventional setups.
I'm not seeing the pop-up suggestion, and the button to add the modifier doesn't seem to work.
Apparently I gotta thank that Abrakadabra person for hosting the game. It says here they did an excellent job with the setup and the discord server chats and finding crack replacement players, or replacement players who were on crack, whichever it may be.
Originally Posted by Ezradekezra1646625550
(#14339)
Non-consecutive is now a modifier that you get suggested to add to Doctor, Jailkeeper and Roleblocker roles. It is automatically added to Doctor in all of the conventional setups.
I'm not seeing the pop-up suggestion, and the button to add the modifier doesn't seem to work.
You may need to clear your cache. Ctrl+Shift+R to reload without cache.
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
If a doctor and a jailkeeper are in the same game, they cannot consecutively target the same player (whether they know what the other person did the night before or not...the second protection will fail).
I have no idea why anyone would be confused by the differences between a doctor/roleblock and a motion detector.
If it blocks or protects, it's non consecutive.
If it doesn't, it's not.
People (and staff!?) being "confused"...i don't get that at all.
If you've never knew this was a thing...then that's totally fair. The modifier won't prevent you from having to learn something new though...and it's probably something you will want to learn ASAP if you are playing most games on MU.
If a doctor and a jailkeeper are in the same game, they cannot consecutively target the same player (whether they know what the other person did the night before or not...the second protection will fail).
People just have to learn this rule.
(The fact that Champs players don't know it is not a surprise though)
For the record this is not and has not been the case.
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
[12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
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Originally Posted by LordQuas
{HIDE_FROM_FLIP} Doctor
