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Thread: ban self votes

  1. ISO #51
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#43)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#30)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#29)
    Why shouldn't hosts get the option to deny it in their games?
    they already can
    Not in a meaningful way. The entire point of the software is to not need to have hosts step in. Maybe you're used to running things that way, but that that's counter to the point of what modbot is trying to make easier for people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#30)
    they already can
    Not in a meaningful way. The entire point of the software is to not need to have hosts step in. Maybe you're used to running things that way, but that that's counter to the point of what modbot is trying to make easier for people.
    And like seriously, self-maj. It's a topic that's come up in the thread before your post even.
    I don't think modbot should get into the business of policing behaviour that some people find annoying.

    Modbot already has many options, some that aren't self-evident about what they do, but hosts generally have the expectation that the options are relevant to mechanical play and can build setups with that mechanic information in mind (e.g., LYLO informing, locked votes, mafia night kill type, limited post cap, so on).

    This has close to no relevance to the mechanics of playing. It is purely a pet peeve about behaviour. Turning it into a multiple-choice setting because of "wolves or jesters self-hammering" is busywork. It demonstrates that the case is a pet peeve and not something with overarching usefulness to hosting games. If wolves and jesters have utility in self-voting, then there is no reason to prevent villagers from utilizing it too (besides personally thinking it's annoying, but that's a you problem). If a host says "no self-voting" and someone self-votes, the host has the ability to intervene and also has the right to simply blacklist that player from ever playing their games again (as they would if the player broke any other host-specific rule).

    There doesn't need to be a software solution for behaviour. Hosts can and should manage game behaviour by themselves, and they shouldn't be campaigning for the software to cater to their behavioural preferences in a way that impacts everyone else (which a default setting would inherently do, even if that default is to allow it).
    That seems to be a you thing then and your distaste for it.

    Modbot isn't policing anything that the hosts aren't. This change is to allow hosts to police it if they wish. The general consensus is option which means modbot isn't doing it, hosts are via modbot.

    You don't sound like you even read most posts, this is frustrating. My point was certain games may want it therefore it should be an option to toggle it for the entire game. You are arguing as if it would be different within the same game.

    The host does not have the ability to intervene in the case of self-hammering. Are you reading nothing anyone says about this?

    Your last paragraph is absurd. The software already caters to a specific preference. You are simply demanding it cater to your preference to the maximum by not allowing any option other than your preferred one
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  2. ISO #52
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartBomb (#44)
    villagers should have the freedom to be potatoes

    this is really the limit of me discussing judgement on this I can't really argue that self voting ends up being toxic a lot of the time and is bad for thread feel so arguing along those lines is pretty convincing
    In your games, let them. Why should it be that way in everyone's games if they dislike it?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  3. ISO #53
    weh SmartBomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#52)
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartBomb (#44)
    villagers should have the freedom to be potatoes

    this is really the limit of me discussing judgement on this I can't really argue that self voting ends up being toxic a lot of the time and is bad for thread feel so arguing along those lines is pretty convincing
    In your games, let them. Why should it be that way in everyone's games if they dislike it?
    that is exactly what i said

  4. ISO #54
    Spaceship, spaceship, SPACESHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Logic's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#1)
    they add nothing to the game outside of:

    wolf self maj

    which is such a slight thing that gets dwarfed by all the terrible stuff self voting allows

    by banning self votes you:

    a) stop people from sabotaging/game throwing
    b) make some attempt to curb really annoying emotional manip in games that arent fun for anyone
    c) stop giving a platform to yelly ppl

    outside of really obvious jokes/memes has anyone ever seriously thought that 'this self vote really added a lot to my game experience and i would love to encounter it again'

    also it stops people somehow accidentally self voting in lylo.

    the prosecution rests.
    I would like to counter that in Dya's Cat mafia, as a vengeful towny I used a self-vote to great effect in killing a deep wolf and taking a deeply suspect player (myself) out of the POE.
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  5. ISO #55
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic (#54)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#1)
    they add nothing to the game outside of:

    wolf self maj

    which is such a slight thing that gets dwarfed by all the terrible stuff self voting allows

    by banning self votes you:

    a) stop people from sabotaging/game throwing
    b) make some attempt to curb really annoying emotional manip in games that arent fun for anyone
    c) stop giving a platform to yelly ppl

    outside of really obvious jokes/memes has anyone ever seriously thought that 'this self vote really added a lot to my game experience and i would love to encounter it again'

    also it stops people somehow accidentally self voting in lylo.

    the prosecution rests.
    I would like to counter that in Dya's Cat mafia, as a vengeful towny I used a self-vote to great effect in killing a deep wolf and taking a deeply suspect player (myself) out of the POE.
    I did consider vengeful and that is niche but yeah. I think it works in some small scenarios and that's why want it to be possible in case the particular setup may prefer it for whatever odd reason
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    You don't have to do anything except die
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    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
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  6. ISO #56
    Wants It More 4maskwolf's Avatar
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    There are very rare mechanical situations where self-voting is an optimal and permissible play (my go to reference is Old Cats Invitational where had thingy been online he would have participated in quickhammering himself for the win) but they tend to be super niche compared to the self-vote and ATE/mistake vote in locked votes things that typically happen with it. Letting it be up to the host whether to allow it or not sounds totally reasonable.

    My preference for the default would be default permitted, because if it's by default not permitted it might cause setup speculation in closed games if the host chooses to turn it on.
    " Pro-tip: 4mask is always lying. Figure out what his angle is. "
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  7. ISO #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#51)

    The host does not have the ability to intervene in the case of self-hammering. Are you reading nothing anyone says about this?
    I have no idea why you're electing to be a $%#! toward me, but I'll at least respond to this.

    The host has no need to intervene in a self-hammer. The player is dead and they were going to die anyway if their wagon was run up to -1. If a host is really miffed with the very idea of self-voting just on principle, they can offer compensation to the opposing alignment.

  8. ISO #58
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#57)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#51)

    The host does not have the ability to intervene in the case of self-hammering. Are you reading nothing anyone says about this?
    I have no idea why you're electing to be a $%#! toward me, but I'll at least respond to this.

    The host has no need to intervene in a self-hammer. The player is dead and they were going to die anyway if their wagon was run up to -1. If a host is really miffed with the very idea of self-voting just on principle, they can offer compensation to the opposing alignment.
    Or the same alignment in some cases where it's throwing.
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  9. ISO #59
    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Self voting should be up to the hosts to allow it or not, it’s part of the game. I’ve done it as wolf for wifom and as town as a reaction test.
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  10. ISO #60
    GOAT Tier Apogee's Avatar
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    Uh.

    OB talked about this at some point, either in the feedback or on discord but banning it or at least warning/confirmation for it in locked votes and/or for the hammer seems fairly easy and definitely something that should be done because they're been a few accidental lylo self votes even this year? Even if it is a bit like "check before posting your vote you dolt" things happen and accidentally voting yourself is not great.

    As to the overarching debate I have no deep opinion as to if self voting as a reaction test or ate should be specifically prohibited although a host toggle seems pretty sensible? "Fake" self voting for a joke or memes is pretty equivalently achieved by "voting" yourself but not having the vote go through if turned off, and you probably shouldn't be self voting with the intent to get yourself killed. Having the self-hammer as a wolf is sometimes good but it really doesn't come up that often because villages have normally gotten pretty good with avoiding the hammer except near EOD, where it matters less for the normal "outed wolf self-hammer scenario". And getting rid of that would also lessen the annoying "x voted 1.72 minutes before the self-hammer which is wolfy" type of reads, because those really shouldn't be desired in my opinion.

  11. ISO #61
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee (#60)
    Uh.

    OB talked about this at some point, either in the feedback or on discord but banning it or at least warning/confirmation for it in locked votes and/or for the hammer seems fairly easy and definitely something that should be done because they're been a few accidental lylo self votes even this year? Even if it is a bit like "check before posting your vote you dolt" things happen and accidentally voting yourself is not great.

    As to the overarching debate I have no deep opinion as to if self voting as a reaction test or ate should be specifically prohibited although a host toggle seems pretty sensible? "Fake" self voting for a joke or memes is pretty equivalently achieved by "voting" yourself but not having the vote go through if turned off, and you probably shouldn't be self voting with the intent to get yourself killed. Having the self-hammer as a wolf is sometimes good but it really doesn't come up that often because villages have normally gotten pretty good with avoiding the hammer except near EOD, where it matters less for the normal "outed wolf self-hammer scenario". And getting rid of that would also lessen the annoying "x voted 1.72 minutes before the self-hammer which is wolfy" type of reads, because those really shouldn't be desired in my opinion.
    I have a feeling most of these concerns have been handled with [Suggestion] Add Confirmation Pop-up to Locked Votes.
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  12. ISO #62
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#57)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#51)

    The host does not have the ability to intervene in the case of self-hammering. Are you reading nothing anyone says about this?
    I have no idea why you're electing to be a $%#! toward me, but I'll at least respond to this.

    The host has no need to intervene in a self-hammer. The player is dead and they were going to die anyway if their wagon was run up to -1. If a host is really miffed with the very idea of self-voting just on principle, they can offer compensation to the opposing alignment.
    You said they could disallow it. Given it has permanent consequences they can't???

    You said they already could ban it. They cannot effectively do so. Just offer compensation isn't the same thing and you know that

    You're being pretty flippant and dismissive of anything not your own preference and it shows a lot lol
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    Who wander through the darkness,
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  13. ISO #63
    Soul Reader Alison's Avatar
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    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.

  14. ISO #64
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#63)
    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  15. ISO #65
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#63)
    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    Should add, wrt mechanical reasons, that's why I prefer it be optional whether to deny or not, so setups where it matters mechanically can have it
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  16. ISO #66
    should vigilantes be able to self target?


  17. ISO #67
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#66)
    should vigilantes be able to self target?

    :shifty:
    This isn't directly comparable because:
    a) If you're close to hammer then voting elsewhere rarely helps, and
    b) If you're not then self-voting doesn't mean you will die
    Last edited by Makaze; July 26th, 2021 at 07:16 PM.
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  18. ISO #68
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs


  19. ISO #69
    Soul Reader Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#63)
    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.

  20. ISO #70
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    :shifty:
    Can you do this?

    I don't remember coding for it.
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  21. ISO #71
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#63)
    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    That has a massive game impact, that's not the same at all as preventing it
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  22. ISO #72
    GOAT Tier katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    id argue that this should be allowed/a setting, given there are some roles that exchange ITA killpower for other utility

    ITA selfdoctor 😳

    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    this seems a bit over the top

    i understand you're anti-ATE but in my experience a majority of selfvotes are done for a laugh

    so like

    that's probably not a good reason (and if it is then this concept is already fundamentally flawed) and modkilling someone for making a joke you don't agree with is kinda cringe tbh

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#2181)
    ...meow?

    Meow meow meow.

    Meow meow, meow meow meow meow. Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow-meow meow behind you meow. Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow. Meow, meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow.

    Meow meow meow, meow meow.

    Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.

    Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow.

    ...

    Meow meow meow nya Katze meow, meow meow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#174)
    tl;dr: kat called my $%#! small, I townread it
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#39)
    what if kat is vt

    would she throw like this

    Quote Originally Posted by Transcend (#217)
    Quote Originally Posted by Transcend (#160)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#42)
    ##Vote Sleep

    im tired and feel like staying in bed

    also we don’t have enough info to execute someone d1 or something
    This immediately pings me a bit. Partially because i know it's not smart but also seems like he doesn't wanna step on toes so early.
    Yo katze

    I feel like this might have been a joke post

    But also i feel like there's some truth behind every joke and I just got pinged by this

    So can you tell me the rationale behind this post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marluxion (#714)
    Katze is uwu
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#2944)
    Pretty sure Katze is just an innocent memer gamer girl who likes to joke around and play seriously as well and genuinely gets upset when her jokes are taken seriously and her seriousness is taken as jokes

    And if she’s maf then she’s just a borderline sociopath memer girl whose jokes are just lies and her seriousness are just lies and everything about her is a lie and if she flips maf this game and I see her say anything remotely scummy in a future game I’m just gonna death tunnel her to the ends of the earth regardless of how genuine her posts may feel
    Quote Originally Posted by AYAYA (#6543)
    signing my posts makes me feel subhuman

    - chloe
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#238)
    you're not a reliable source of redcheck yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#5)
    Why are you doing this?

  23. ISO #73
    Soul Reader CRichard564's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    id argue that this should be allowed/a setting, given there are some roles that exchange ITA killpower for other utility

    ITA selfdoctor 😳

    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    this seems a bit over the top

    i understand you're anti-ATE but in my experience a majority of selfvotes are done for a laugh

    so like

    that's probably not a good reason (and if it is then this concept is already fundamentally flawed) and modkilling someone for making a joke you don't agree with is kinda cringe tbh
    But you see Katze, self-vote and ATE = Lock Town.
    HaruKaito is the best Danganronpa ship.
    I'm unable to think of a better ship than those two.

  24. ISO #74
    Soul Reader Ezradekezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezradekezra
    I AM NOT OPENWOLFING!!!!11!!!11!!1!!!!1!

  25. ISO #75
    Soul Reader Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#71)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#63)
    Self-voting shouldn't be mechanically prohibited. I've self-voted as town before. It's very rare - I've been playing mafia since 2009 and I could count the number of times I've done it on the fingers of one hand. But I have done it. Sometimes it's because thread health is degenerating and it is beneficial for the game to just have everyone keep quiet for 24 hours and see a flip. Sometimes it's because of edge cases where Vengeful is at play or whatever.

    However, self-voting in order to AtE is annoying. But this must be enforced by the players, not the host. Stop giving passes to people who throw temper tantrums and self vote in mafia games. Policy that $%#!. If I see someone vote themselves, I assume that they want to die, and I am happy to grant them their wish. If people see that this tactic loses its effectiveness, they will stop doing it.
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    That has a massive game impact, that's not the same at all as preventing it
    It is functionally the same because people will just not self-vote if you have that rule.
    There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.

  26. ISO #76
    Soul Reader Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    id argue that this should be allowed/a setting, given there are some roles that exchange ITA killpower for other utility

    ITA selfdoctor ������

    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    this seems a bit over the top

    i understand you're anti-ATE but in my experience a majority of selfvotes are done for a laugh

    so like

    that's probably not a good reason (and if it is then this concept is already fundamentally flawed) and modkilling someone for making a joke you don't agree with is kinda cringe tbh
    See above. If modbot literally does not allow you to selfvote that is functionally the same as you choosing not to selfvote because you'll get modkilled.

    I don't see the difference.
    There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.

  27. ISO #77
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#75)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#71)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#64)
    But why not allow host to enforce it? If its so bad it should be policied, why not allow people to remove it from the equation entirely if that is how they want their games?

    If a host feels its inclusion makes the game less enjoyable, why shouldn't they ban it outright if that fits the hosting style they want to cultivate and put forward?
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    That has a massive game impact, that's not the same at all as preventing it
    It is functionally the same because people will just not self-vote if you have that rule.
    That is not necessarily true at all
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  28. ISO #78
    One of the rules about making rules is that if you make a rule somebody will break it.

  29. ISO #79
    Quote Originally Posted by soah (#78)
    One of the rules about making rules is that if you make a rule somebody will break it.
    if you state this as a sub-rule to a main rule then doesn't that mean everyone will follow the main rule now? seems paradoxical

  30. ISO #80
    GOAT Tier katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    id argue that this should be allowed/a setting, given there are some roles that exchange ITA killpower for other utility

    ITA selfdoctor ������

    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#69)
    A host already has the option to write the following statement in the rules: "If you vote yourself and don't have a good reason, I will modkill you." That seems sufficient.
    this seems a bit over the top

    i understand you're anti-ATE but in my experience a majority of selfvotes are done for a laugh

    so like

    that's probably not a good reason (and if it is then this concept is already fundamentally flawed) and modkilling someone for making a joke you don't agree with is kinda cringe tbh
    See above. If modbot literally does not allow you to selfvote that is functionally the same as you choosing not to selfvote because you'll get modkilled.

    I don't see the difference.
    modbot doesn't allow me to vote players not in the game but i'll still try to do it anyway for comedic effect

    i do not get modkilled for it

    ##Vote Alison

    (jokes aside, modkills effect the game at a much, much higher level than "attempting to self vote but it not being considered a valid vote")

    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#2181)
    ...meow?

    Meow meow meow.

    Meow meow, meow meow meow meow. Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow-meow meow behind you meow. Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow. Meow, meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow.

    Meow meow meow, meow meow.

    Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.

    Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow.

    ...

    Meow meow meow nya Katze meow, meow meow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#174)
    tl;dr: kat called my $%#! small, I townread it
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#39)
    what if kat is vt

    would she throw like this

    Quote Originally Posted by Transcend (#217)
    Quote Originally Posted by Transcend (#160)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#42)
    ##Vote Sleep

    im tired and feel like staying in bed

    also we don’t have enough info to execute someone d1 or something
    This immediately pings me a bit. Partially because i know it's not smart but also seems like he doesn't wanna step on toes so early.
    Yo katze

    I feel like this might have been a joke post

    But also i feel like there's some truth behind every joke and I just got pinged by this

    So can you tell me the rationale behind this post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marluxion (#714)
    Katze is uwu
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#2944)
    Pretty sure Katze is just an innocent memer gamer girl who likes to joke around and play seriously as well and genuinely gets upset when her jokes are taken seriously and her seriousness is taken as jokes

    And if she’s maf then she’s just a borderline sociopath memer girl whose jokes are just lies and her seriousness are just lies and everything about her is a lie and if she flips maf this game and I see her say anything remotely scummy in a future game I’m just gonna death tunnel her to the ends of the earth regardless of how genuine her posts may feel
    Quote Originally Posted by AYAYA (#6543)
    signing my posts makes me feel subhuman

    - chloe
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#238)
    you're not a reliable source of redcheck yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#5)
    Why are you doing this?

  31. ISO #81
    Wants It More annulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    yes. it would be fun

  32. ISO #82
    Soul Reader CRichard564's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annulus (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    yes. it would be fun
    Self ITA, Self Vote and ATE = Lock Town.
    HaruKaito is the best Danganronpa ship.
    I'm unable to think of a better ship than those two.

  33. ISO #83
    Lost Weasley Brother Allundberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    Yes if u have a vig upon death and want to kill some1

  34. ISO #84
    Galaxy Brain Shad's Avatar
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    In my first wolf rand one of my partners self-hammered in a freak x-post joke accident and the village cleared me for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther
    I thought you were a nerd last week but then I saw you say you play golf and remember you said you chewed so you're some kind of unicorn or something

  35. ISO #85
    GOAT Tier Garden Gnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annulus (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    yes. it would be fun
    I agree. It would provide a lot of entertainment for everyone. Just make sure that you've used up your one-shot abilities first and then... ka-boom!!!!

    Garden Gnome

    All she ever does is ask pointless questions for the sake of asking pointless questions. When are you going to sharpen your pencil and ask questions that have a point, at least a graphite point!!! Oh, right, it looks like you're asking them in DVC!!!

    Oh, wait, you're a jester!!!

    Good game, Gnome!!!!!
    Last edited by Garden Gnome; July 27th, 2021 at 08:59 AM.

  36. ISO #86
    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#68)
    should you be able to shoot yourself in ITAs

    I mean we have a feedback thread to fix self targetting vigilantes

    I don't see why not

  37. ISO #87
    Wants It More Adam's Avatar
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    "i personally find this annoying and it's rarely optimal play"

    so we're also getting a feature to disable posts with fewer than 10 characters? and emote-only posts? the thought of using rules/features to regulate this is so strange to me

    "i can't self-vote so please just vote me i want out of this game" accomplishes the same thing outside of locked votes / maj (where the entire thread seems to favor self-voting as an option anyway)

    makaze i am very sorry if you end up spending dev time on something like this

  38. ISO #88
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.

  39. ISO #89
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier (#88)
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.
    goat
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  40. ISO #90
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    The mechanical implications seem to be the most relevant here as the only thing that Modbot actively controls, mainly looking at accidental self-votes... I think if you really wanted to implement a optional setting for that it would be fine, but not overly necessary!!

    Especially considering the implementation of the confirmation thing for locked votes, which should ideally be useful in terms of preventing those types of mechanical errors/in general anyway!!!

    (Technically hosts can put down rules against self-voting in their own games if they really want to, and manually enforce that!!)

    I personally think people should be allowed to self-vote if they want, particularly for games with certain roles (jester being the most well known one)/can have plays that involve that!!!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

  41. ISO #91
    Too long and too gay lute's Avatar
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    implement mandatory self-hammers iyam
    [1:32 AM] Makaze: You stepped down. I assume because you gave up on improving things.
    ♫ Hush now, my baby. Be still love, don't cry ♫
    ♫ Sleep as you're rocked by the stream ♫
    ♫ Sleep and remember my last lullaby ♫
    ♫ So I'll be with you when you dream ♫

  42. ISO #92
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#90)
    The mechanical implications seem to be the most relevant here as the only thing that Modbot actively controls, mainly looking at accidental self-votes... I think if you really wanted to implement a optional setting for that it would be fine, but not overly necessary!!

    Especially considering the implementation of the confirmation thing for locked votes, which should ideally be useful in terms of preventing those types of mechanical errors/in general anyway!!!

    (Technically hosts can put down rules against self-voting in their own games if they really want to, and manually enforce that!!)

    I personally think people should be allowed to self-vote if they want, particularly for games with certain roles (jester being the most well known one)/can have plays that involve that!!!!
    Manually enforcing rules like that is not easy and in the case of a self-hammer is kind of not enforceable without consequences
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  43. ISO #93
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#92)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#90)
    The mechanical implications seem to be the most relevant here as the only thing that Modbot actively controls, mainly looking at accidental self-votes... I think if you really wanted to implement a optional setting for that it would be fine, but not overly necessary!!

    Especially considering the implementation of the confirmation thing for locked votes, which should ideally be useful in terms of preventing those types of mechanical errors/in general anyway!!!

    (Technically hosts can put down rules against self-voting in their own games if they really want to, and manually enforce that!!)

    I personally think people should be allowed to self-vote if they want, particularly for games with certain roles (jester being the most well known one)/can have plays that involve that!!!!
    Manually enforcing rules like that is not easy and in the case of a self-hammer is kind of not enforceable without consequences
    The argument that if we make not allowing it the default then allowing it becomes cause for setup speculation is hard to argue with in most situations.

    The way to handle it is probably to consider that behavior as a type of cheating and mark their slot as no contest in the database if they ignore the host instructions about self-hammering.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  44. ISO #94
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#93)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#92)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arapocalypse (#90)
    The mechanical implications seem to be the most relevant here as the only thing that Modbot actively controls, mainly looking at accidental self-votes... I think if you really wanted to implement a optional setting for that it would be fine, but not overly necessary!!

    Especially considering the implementation of the confirmation thing for locked votes, which should ideally be useful in terms of preventing those types of mechanical errors/in general anyway!!!

    (Technically hosts can put down rules against self-voting in their own games if they really want to, and manually enforce that!!)

    I personally think people should be allowed to self-vote if they want, particularly for games with certain roles (jester being the most well known one)/can have plays that involve that!!!!
    Manually enforcing rules like that is not easy and in the case of a self-hammer is kind of not enforceable without consequences
    The argument that if we make not allowing it the default then allowing it becomes cause for setup speculation is hard to argue with in most situations.

    The way to handle it is probably to consider that behavior as a type of cheating and mark their slot as no contest in the database if they ignore the host instructions about self-hammering.
    Then make the default allowing it and let it be toggled off by people who mind
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  45. ISO #95
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    This feature has been added as an optional setting and is set to allow them by default with no announcement unless self-voting is disabled in the OP.

    Hosts can turn off self-voting in LYLO and in other situations of vote locking by editing the setting mid-game. I have not added this setting automatically because I believe that the hosts having the option is less likely to cause problems.
    Last edited by Makaze; August 2nd, 2021 at 03:59 PM.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  46. ISO #96
    Season 7 Connect 4 Champion tonystarkprime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier (#88)
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.
    i mean that's just bad play

  47. ISO #97
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonystarkprime (#96)
    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier (#88)
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.
    i mean that's just bad play
    I can see situations where it makes sense if everyone is completely lost in LYLO
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  48. ISO #98
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#97)
    Quote Originally Posted by tonystarkprime (#96)
    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier (#88)
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.
    i mean that's just bad play
    I can see situations where it makes sense if everyone is completely lost in LYLO
    Uh for one lylo no, that would have been a hammer

    Secondly in mylo that only works if you have like supreme confidence that the other two aren't wolves and gambling all on that is a bit ehh
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  49. ISO #99
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#98)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#97)
    Quote Originally Posted by tonystarkprime (#96)
    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier (#88)
    Holas.

    Read a game a while back where 4 people were remaining, 3 required for elimination. One player voted on someone who then self voted, the other two players didnt bite, eventually showing that the remaining scum had to be in those first two. Town eventually caught them and won. So its not like it cant be used as a viable strategy to catch a wolf.
    i mean that's just bad play
    I can see situations where it makes sense if everyone is completely lost in LYLO
    Uh for one lylo no, that would have been a hammer

    Secondly in mylo that only works if you have like supreme confidence that the other two aren't wolves and gambling all on that is a bit ehh
    Sorry, I meant mylo.

    The scenario that was presented makes sense to me if everyone in it is lost and they cannot make reads without mechanical knowledge.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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Psychiatrist

The Psychiatrist may each night target a player. If the targeted player is a Serial Killer, they will be converted to Vanilla Townie and will win with the town.