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Thread: When You Give PT a Mafia Game (Rerand)

  1. ISO #501
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#500)
    Like idk what it'll do for you guys here
    And to further add, a cc battle isn't a thing to be afraid of. Just sleep and let the vig shoot the ccer???
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  2. ISO #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#501)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#500)
    Like idk what it'll do for you guys here
    And to further add, a cc battle isn't a thing to be afraid of. Just sleep and let the vig shoot the ccer???
    Which, is a thing I wanted to say but couldn't discuss without it becoming obvious

    In the future: if the vig wants to out, let them do so themselves
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  3. ISO #503
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Okay, to maybe bring some conversation back to life here, Amy asked who I'd shoot if I had two bullets. I'll start with the less spicy one, but I also want to preface with: I've read all the posts for day 2, but they don't have much bearing on the following thoughts. Most of these things occurred to me while at work today. So take one, one of my bullets would still be for Len; mostly because I seem to be the only one still out of the loop. But before I get people mad, I'm not so hot on this. So here's my confusion.

    From my interpretation, we had big sus on Len, gave her time to respond, and she responded with an average defense. The defense was just average and included other points of digging/ solving thrown in there, and then we got to the big SR and Len fight. The point of divergence is everyone seems to interpret Len's tone during that as huge town/ big vibes, but I disagree. At the very least I think it's not AI on either side, I think it's just... well the exact reaction you'd give on either wolf or town. I think I'd be pissed if my genuine, baseline but very sound wolftalk wasn't working, and equally pissed if I was a town being accused of wolf for the SMALLEST thing when I thought my words weren't working. I feel like the enthusiasm can come from both wolf side and town side, as opposed to being exclusively town leaning. I totally understand getting mad when you feel like you're talking to an obstinate, hypocritical wall!!!

    I also took the time to look at Len's entire ISO. It was a lot, but it brings me to a very wild and unsubstantiated theory. I know I dropped a huge bomb with my vote switch, my wagon switch, but I find the remaining people who voted after just as interesting.

    My wacky theory: right around EoD we have the fight and then we get into lightning round. PERHAPS Len notices that Dunn's public opinion has been waffling the whole game. It's not a stretch to say that most of the people who read Dunn as both wolf and town agreed on one common point that he wasn't very elaborate nor was he very polite in many of his posts. Nearly every response was a sharp jab from him. Picking up on that she does her ISO which has a lot of scumreads on a lot of people, but Dunn comes up pretty frequently. Heavy theoretically, but perhaps it's to just kinda put her points at the front of people's minds, possibly. I believe it could be genuine ISO thoughts. Debate goes on and more people are on the Dunn wagon. And after placing my vote already, I walk in and change my vote, theoretically falling for Len's Dunn campaign. Again, at the time I don't realize how wolf of a move that is, but it also creates an opening. Len instead of having to do a hard balance of campaigning for Dunn while making the reasons organic but also keeping sus off of her, she now just has the easiest wolf campaign of her life. With a wolf move like that how could anyone even think of disagreeing with her? It's free and easy to get me out. Is that not a bus of her own? Theoretically wouldn't matter to her. If she knows, she gets either one town out. And if she can get me, then Dunn already has a lot of damnation on his head.

    Again, massive what if theory, and it has a lot of ASTERISKS HERE. I genuinely don't think I have the room to make such a wild and flagrant claim, but it's what my brain has. I have more to add, but I figure for simplicity's sake I'll put it in a second post for people to pick parts easier.

  4. ISO #504
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    Who's your other shot there?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  5. ISO #505
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Now as I look at the votes and how they switched after my bombshell, it makes some interesting things light up, and I might be totally off base, but I find Ara's votes just as interesting. Ara, you've since that move expressed a huge dislike for it, and I don't disagree! But it is wild who ended up on my bus at the end and where they came from. It was Ara, me, and Dunn on Bee before the swap. Dunn switches to me very naturally because he thinks me wolf and now we're at direct odds. Barring sus he had on anyone, he thinks me a wolf trying to kill him and fights back, totally cool. But then Ara dislikes my play so much that she jumps off of the previous wagon of Bee onto me along with Len. I'm a huge risk and a huge wolf at that point, but aside from massive dislike I'm not fully clear as to why in that moment you jumped. From a very surface level, to me, it looks like you jumped to, potentially, vote with your theoretical other wolf, Len. Which puts me at a potential Ara/ Len w/w.

    So a few questions for Ara:
    In the lightning round, you gave Len a townread but definitely couldn't elaborate more on it in the short time. Could you elaborate now?
    Could you also give your reason for your switch from Bee to me?

    You've been amazingly helpful in guiding this game, keeping the hype, and asking questions, but it's not impossible that that's a bad thing. It could be indicative of strong wolfing. That other post about outright asking who the vig is... doesn't really sit well with me. You've laid out good reasons for why it's good for town to get that info, but it's just as easy to target them during the night phase and be hugely detrimental to town.

    On the real I'm hoping that I'm wrong. I want HYPE!Ara to be town and stick around.

  6. ISO #506
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    That's probably another big bomb, but my main genuine questions more revolve around everyone's opinion of absolving Len from day 1 after the fight. The rest of it is putting on a huge tinfoil hat.

  7. ISO #507
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#504)
    Who's your other shot there?
    And onto my second shot. Which will continue to make me, probably, look worse! Ready! A little spicier given the position I'm in!

  8. ISO #508
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    My second shot is: Amy. And again for mostly tinfoil, overexamining small things reasons. It's bad for me considering I keep bandwagoning, but that's just what I'm gonna do this game, I guess. This tinfoil theory has a title: In Which Amy is Too Good of a Host.

    Amy's been making this first mafia experience a genuinely good one. Since the outset she's been light with me and played around and it's a good time. Amy knows me very, very well and almost all her reads on me have been deadly spot on. Her knowing basically how I talk and thus defending my very much fake "reads" in my first post, to defending in the stressful heat of the moment my twtbaw switch with 3 minutes left AND the switch to counter Len... it's a huge vote of confidence that I'm town and can definitely be attributed to Amy just Really Knowing a Pal. She had perfect insight into me being in "Go Mode," and even has come to my defense about my words better than I could have, especially on the first day. I think by and large she's a huge reason that I'm even here in day 2. So she knows me well and has a strong read on me. But WHY?

    Here's the tinfoil theory. It's way easier to know for a fact I'm town if she knows everyone who's not mafia. That's the easy guess. That explains a lot of why she's so chill and unwavering in her defense for me despite me setting off stupid bombs. (But at the same time that is very much how she's been playing this game in general.) Easy enough, but I'm going further and putting my tinfoil hat on even more. Say you don't want to only make sure that the newbie good friend has as good of a time as he can, but you want to make it as optimal and engaging as possible. Having others participate to a certain level is out of everyone's control; if people aren't posting and aren't here for the game enough, then that would suck and lessen the experience. But what if you could change that? The most townish way to get rid of afk/ not engaged people is to just suggest it for the day vote. That person would have been Bee, and Bee dying would theoretically increase talking and engagement. But that vote didn't go through at the end of the day. And if you had the power to still get rid of Bee for a more engaging game, might you? My bat$%#! theory is that's what we got out of the night kills. Amy gets rid of an afk Bee for a more engaging game and because she wanted to during the day. If they can talk and collaborate on kills, the further result becomes that wolf 2 kills Claire to also help Amy's defense.

    I meant to stick this somewhere else, too, but her defensive swap to Dunn also benefits her IF she has knowledge that Dunn is not wolf. I can definitely attribute this to it being the literal last minute, and this only works if Amy was watching the thread like a hawk and had the fastest voting hands in the west, and seeing the code at the moment she sees Dunn and Ara vote, but it's still a point of note that the math doesn't add up fully. I don't know what the result of this math brings, but Amy did not stick her neck out for me the big votes go 2 SSR, 3 me, 3 Dunn. Me and Dunn tie. I have no idea what leaving it at 3/3 would have done, but maybe it would have resulted in Not A Kill and Dunn could have lived. We come to the railroad dilemma of Amy's inaction might have killed someone but her action did kill some one. Which for a wolf would have been a win win. But hey, just like Amy excused me for being in "Go Mode" I will just as easily excuse literally anyone else for being in Go Mode, as they had EVEN LESS TIME.

    Anyways, $%#!, that's a lot to unpack, yeah?
    But to clear some air, I'll ask more specific questions to my lunatic ramblings.
    -Amy, what are your general thoughts on Bee being killed during the night phase? Loaded question: DO you think it was an overall benefit for the game since he was largely afk and a little unhelpful?
    -Amy, any reason that some of your harder targets seem to be people with low posts and low meaningful participation? Is it just a coincidence?
    -@ all, could anyone maybe explain in further detail as to why it seems wolfy to just not talk? I'm gathering a lot of it has to do with they get free information and you can't get next to any reads one way or another with no information from them if they don't talk. Is there more to it? Does silence benefit them or put more suspicion on them?

    @superstarsrock I'm actually really curious as to your thoughts on both Claire and Beeboy dying in the night round. You had a Claire vote by the EoD on day 1. Is that shocking to you?

  9. ISO #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#503)
    Okay, to maybe bring some conversation back to life here, Amy asked who I'd shoot if I had two bullets. I'll start with the less spicy one, but I also want to preface with: I've read all the posts for day 2, but they don't have much bearing on the following thoughts. Most of these things occurred to me while at work today. So take one, one of my bullets would still be for Len; mostly because I seem to be the only one still out of the loop. But before I get people mad, I'm not so hot on this. So here's my confusion.

    From my interpretation, we had big sus on Len, gave her time to respond, and she responded with an average defense. The defense was just average and included other points of digging/ solving thrown in there, and then we got to the big SR and Len fight. The point of divergence is everyone seems to interpret Len's tone during that as huge town/ big vibes, but I disagree. At the very least I think it's not AI on either side, I think it's just... well the exact reaction you'd give on either wolf or town. I think I'd be pissed if my genuine, baseline but very sound wolftalk wasn't working, and equally pissed if I was a town being accused of wolf for the SMALLEST thing when I thought my words weren't working. I feel like the enthusiasm can come from both wolf side and town side, as opposed to being exclusively town leaning. I totally understand getting mad when you feel like you're talking to an obstinate, hypocritical wall!!!

    I also took the time to look at Len's entire ISO. It was a lot, but it brings me to a very wild and unsubstantiated theory. I know I dropped a huge bomb with my vote switch, my wagon switch, but I find the remaining people who voted after just as interesting.

    My wacky theory: right around EoD we have the fight and then we get into lightning round. PERHAPS Len notices that Dunn's public opinion has been waffling the whole game. It's not a stretch to say that most of the people who read Dunn as both wolf and town agreed on one common point that he wasn't very elaborate nor was he very polite in many of his posts. Nearly every response was a sharp jab from him. Picking up on that she does her ISO which has a lot of scumreads on a lot of people, but Dunn comes up pretty frequently. Heavy theoretically, but perhaps it's to just kinda put her points at the front of people's minds, possibly. I believe it could be genuine ISO thoughts. Debate goes on and more people are on the Dunn wagon. And after placing my vote already, I walk in and change my vote, theoretically falling for Len's Dunn campaign. Again, at the time I don't realize how wolf of a move that is, but it also creates an opening. Len instead of having to do a hard balance of campaigning for Dunn while making the reasons organic but also keeping sus off of her, she now just has the easiest wolf campaign of her life. With a wolf move like that how could anyone even think of disagreeing with her? It's free and easy to get me out. Is that not a bus of her own? Theoretically wouldn't matter to her. If she knows, she gets either one town out. And if she can get me, then Dunn already has a lot of damnation on his head.

    Again, massive what if theory, and it has a lot of ASTERISKS HERE. I genuinely don't think I have the room to make such a wild and flagrant claim, but it's what my brain has. I have more to add, but I figure for simplicity's sake I'll put it in a second post for people to pick parts easier.
    Okay so wrt Len here, what do you think her goal was at eod? Why do you see her compelled to go to Dunn in the first place as a wolf?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  10. ISO #510
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Well, there's a lot of that. If you think it's all crazy, don't worry, I do, too. So I more than welcome people blasting holes in it. (on a lot of levels I want to be wrong and overanalyzing $%#! so insight is greatly appreciated)

    Other general questions I have though: How do you specifically @ people? Did I do it right in the above post?

    Is it possible to unvote? I wouldn't mind voting now as long as I knew that it wouldn't $%#! me later given how... unfortunately low we are on players....

    If my math is right, we only shoot if we're dead sure about who's wolf, bringing it to 1 wolf, 5 town. Wolf likely kills bringing it to 1 wolf, 4 town by day 3. If we're not sure, we let 2 wolves live, they kill 2 and we're left with 2 wolves, 3 town by day 3. (unless vig gets a game changing shot and if they don't we go 2/2 and lose). Guess all's this to say that if I vote and the optimal play is to not lynch due to uncertainty I can elect to not by the end of it, yes? Thanks for the advice in advance.

  11. ISO #511
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#301)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea (#243)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#140)
    i don't buy that len's soulreading me wolf

    i think she's noticed that the thread's pretty lukewarm on me and thinks she can seed suspicion without necessarily getting her hands dirty

    probably indicates that the people lowest on me (hi claire) are more likely to be town
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#142)
    there's more to my scumread on len than just a dislike of her soul read but a lot of it is vague ~feels~ and i kinda wanna get her back in here and see what's what before i talk about it
    I’m gonna admit I cheated a little and did a late night peak, but I saw later that the two reads you don’t wanna talk about much are me and Len for -reasons- while I can respect the method the day is coming to a close. Now, the read on me I don’t really care about since people seem to like having me around for some reason. Len on the other hand is someone who I’ll need you to shed some light on if you want my opinion on you to change. I’d like to consider myself a not very biased person, so if you gave me the bullet points I’d look at it in a very factual manner. Be warned though, if most of your argument is meta it probably won’t click with me that well.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#150)
    I suppose I can understand the concern, but I'm new! And I'm warming up as I gather info. For me, this is a lot to read, but I'm starting to form Opinions so I'll talk about other stuff soon.
    I’ll show a little mercy since you’re new in all, but I can assume you’ve played games of this type before. The thing I’m having trouble with here is what does being new have with you only focusing on Ampharos? I get there is a sense of comfort knowing a player but. . .that isn’t really something I’d expect from a-you know what I’ll let you answer maybe I’m just talking gibberish.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that I probably tunnelvisioned hard towards the beginning of my posts. My focus went from not sure how to gather information to I'm being accused (probably wrong word) due to Amy relations, to Dunn's damnation of Len. Those have been my focuses so far and it might be suboptimal play. But I don't fully see either how focusing on stuff relating to me is bad play either? Not sure one way or the other. It makes sense to me to zero in on stuff that's familiar and that I know.
    So early in day 2 Len asked me to clarify this. What I mean by "stuff that's familiar and that I know" would mean anything that is relating directly to me. I know what my thoughts would be. I know my actions. And I know my interpretation of events like when asked about Amy voting. Stuff that would be directly asked of me, I can provide an answer for. An example of something that wouldn't be familiar was when in post #181 I tried to engage Beeboy in a more original thought/ line of questioning.

    For the timeline, I started focusing on lines of questions that directly involved me, familiar, then I moved on to trying to analyze other people's post for insight, unfamiliar.

  12. ISO #512
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    i have a lot of thoughts but the words are jumbling in my brain right now and i need to take a moment to breathe first and foremost

    so i'll fire off the two quickest ones and go more in depth in a bit

    A. SR claiming vig makes me somewhat more confident on my SSR wolfread; one of my biggest reservations with the push was i noted the way SR was sort of passively endorsing my SSR push without adding any vote momentum to it, and i was concerned that there was a chance he was a wolf trying to get me to tunnel on a villager. assuming SR doesn't just get counter-vigged overnight (and i don't see why he'd ever fakeclaim in this spot as a wolf, + the claim annoyance is definitely real, etc etc), that's no longer a concern

    B. i was fine in the moment with the vig claim thing happening, and maybe that was a mistake - but i also didn't think too hard about it since my claim was already out in the open lol. that said, do think that forcing a claim here fits a w!ara agenda - if she can get a villager elimmed today, killing the vig tonight makes lylo MUCH easier for her than dealing with a confirmed clear would be. i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that town ara would suggest it... but something kinda smells

    honestly if anything THAT thought makes me waver on w!ssr because i'm not sure she makes this play if there's even a chance her partner goes over today? but idk

    @pawnshop dragon i want your perspective specifically on these things, most especially the ara stuff
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  13. ISO #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#512)
    i have a lot of thoughts but the words are jumbling in my brain right now and i need to take a moment to breathe first and foremost

    so i'll fire off the two quickest ones and go more in depth in a bit

    A. SR claiming vig makes me somewhat more confident on my SSR wolfread; one of my biggest reservations with the push was i noted the way SR was sort of passively endorsing my SSR push without adding any vote momentum to it, and i was concerned that there was a chance he was a wolf trying to get me to tunnel on a villager. assuming SR doesn't just get counter-vigged overnight (and i don't see why he'd ever fakeclaim in this spot as a wolf, + the claim annoyance is definitely real, etc etc), that's no longer a concern

    B. i was fine in the moment with the vig claim thing happening, and maybe that was a mistake - but i also didn't think too hard about it since my claim was already out in the open lol. that said, do think that forcing a claim here fits a w!ara agenda - if she can get a villager elimmed today, killing the vig tonight makes lylo MUCH easier for her than dealing with a confirmed clear would be. i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that town ara would suggest it... but something kinda smells

    honestly if anything THAT thought makes me waver on w!ssr because i'm not sure she makes this play if there's even a chance her partner goes over today? but idk

    @pawnshop dragon i want your perspective specifically on these things, most especially the ara stuff
    @Secondhand Revenant

    i really need to use discord less
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  14. ISO #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#513)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#512)
    i have a lot of thoughts but the words are jumbling in my brain right now and i need to take a moment to breathe first and foremost

    so i'll fire off the two quickest ones and go more in depth in a bit

    A. SR claiming vig makes me somewhat more confident on my SSR wolfread; one of my biggest reservations with the push was i noted the way SR was sort of passively endorsing my SSR push without adding any vote momentum to it, and i was concerned that there was a chance he was a wolf trying to get me to tunnel on a villager. assuming SR doesn't just get counter-vigged overnight (and i don't see why he'd ever fakeclaim in this spot as a wolf, + the claim annoyance is definitely real, etc etc), that's no longer a concern

    B. i was fine in the moment with the vig claim thing happening, and maybe that was a mistake - but i also didn't think too hard about it since my claim was already out in the open lol. that said, do think that forcing a claim here fits a w!ara agenda - if she can get a villager elimmed today, killing the vig tonight makes lylo MUCH easier for her than dealing with a confirmed clear would be. i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that town ara would suggest it... but something kinda smells

    honestly if anything THAT thought makes me waver on w!ssr because i'm not sure she makes this play if there's even a chance her partner goes over today? but idk

    @pawnshop dragon i want your perspective specifically on these things, most especially the ara stuff
    @Secondhand Revenant

    i really need to use discord less
    Who the hell is Pawnshop Dragon?

    Mmm. Pushing mechanically bad stuff is a wolf Ara thing isn't it? Like in mashes at least, info manipulation, etc. Tho I realize you'd not know. I can see it but also

    What do you think of her posts overall today?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  15. ISO #515
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#462)

    is... is this a townslip?
    Ara's glossary doesn't define this. What is a townslip?

  16. ISO #516
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    Honestly tho the more I consider it the more I can see them worrying the bee shot came from one of the people in poe, what with the way you and me talked over Claire stuff making me look not vig. Unsure if Len has given not vig signs

    So more and more this stunt does feel at least to favor the wolves, regardless of intent and the benefits are very dubious
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  17. ISO #517
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#514)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#513)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#512)
    i have a lot of thoughts but the words are jumbling in my brain right now and i need to take a moment to breathe first and foremost

    so i'll fire off the two quickest ones and go more in depth in a bit

    A. SR claiming vig makes me somewhat more confident on my SSR wolfread; one of my biggest reservations with the push was i noted the way SR was sort of passively endorsing my SSR push without adding any vote momentum to it, and i was concerned that there was a chance he was a wolf trying to get me to tunnel on a villager. assuming SR doesn't just get counter-vigged overnight (and i don't see why he'd ever fakeclaim in this spot as a wolf, + the claim annoyance is definitely real, etc etc), that's no longer a concern

    B. i was fine in the moment with the vig claim thing happening, and maybe that was a mistake - but i also didn't think too hard about it since my claim was already out in the open lol. that said, do think that forcing a claim here fits a w!ara agenda - if she can get a villager elimmed today, killing the vig tonight makes lylo MUCH easier for her than dealing with a confirmed clear would be. i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that town ara would suggest it... but something kinda smells

    honestly if anything THAT thought makes me waver on w!ssr because i'm not sure she makes this play if there's even a chance her partner goes over today? but idk

    @pawnshop dragon i want your perspective specifically on these things, most especially the ara stuff
    @Secondhand Revenant

    i really need to use discord less
    Who the hell is Pawnshop Dragon?

    Mmm. Pushing mechanically bad stuff is a wolf Ara thing isn't it? Like in mashes at least, info manipulation, etc. Tho I realize you'd not know. I can see it but also

    What do you think of her posts overall today?
    Yeah, that's a thing Ara likes to do as a wolf - in mashes, if nothing else. I'm familiar with it via last year's Anni but i've heard of her doing it in other contexts too. Just generally think she's not afraid to manipulate mechanics to her advantage as a wolf if she thinks she can get away with it, and I think this situation is borderline enough that she might in fact think that.

    I won't lie, outside of that I've mostly liked her posts today? Largely in their general direction + drive to solve. I think her consciously attempting not to overwhelm the thread was kinda vaguely towny. If I have any notable reservations, it's that I... don't really get the point of some of the things she's asked me? Like, I'm not entirely sure what she's doing with the responses. @Arapocalypse if you'd like to weigh in feel free.

    My reasons to townread her are certainly weaker than my reasons to townread Len and Hammy, if nothing else, which puts her in my bottom 3 by default now that you've claimed.

    ...and now that I lay it out like that, I'm kinda swinging back around to wondering if Ara/jav is more plausible than SSR/x. Kinda not seeing who SSR's partner is here. jav as well? Should I just be voting jav regardless?
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  18. ISO #518
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    I wish I had felt comfortable lying and claiming vt tbh
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  19. ISO #519
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    $%#! it, i'm clicking buttons

    ##Vote javelinlover

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#515)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#462)

    is... is this a townslip?
    Ara's glossary doesn't define this. What is a townslip?
    It's kinda exactly what it sounds like - someone slips up in such a way that reveals they're town. Usually this manifests through people blatantly lacking some knowledge that would be impossible not to know as a wolf - for example, the number of members of the mafia team. Some people also call these "derpclears" but I think townslip is both a more flattering term and a more generally applicable one.

    In this case, I THOUGHT SSR townslipped by not realizing that beeboy was very obviously shot by the vig rather than the mafia, but that was because I misinterpreted the half of the sentence regarding Claire. In reality, SSR was accounting for either one being the mafia kill in his reasoning - this is still kinda ???, but it's the kind of ambiguity that's much easier to fake as mafia than just being Blatantly Obtuse is.
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  20. ISO #520
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#518)
    I wish I had felt comfortable lying and claiming vt tbh
    at least you get to go $%#!post with claire soon
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  21. ISO #521
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    actually claire/dunn/beeboy being the first 3 deaths is EXTREMELY iconic good work everyone
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  22. ISO #522
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  23. ISO #523
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    @Hammy

    It's EXTREMELY funny to me that I've managed to stare into your soul so hard that you think I have TMI.

    That said, thank you for fully townslipping with this post.

    And if you had the power to still get rid of Bee for a more engaging game, might you? My bat$%#! theory is that's what we got out of the night kills. Amy gets rid of an afk Bee for a more engaging game and because she wanted to during the day. If they can talk and collaborate on kills, the further result becomes that wolf 2 kills Claire to also help Amy's defense.
    So let me clear up how this works:
    - the two members of the mafia share a chat and can talk to each other at any time, day or night
    - they have one kill between the two of them
    - the second death came from the vigilante, a town role; SR is the one who shot beeboy

    Also, regarding the vote:
    I have no idea what leaving it at 3/3 would have done, but maybe it would have resulted in Not A Kill and Dunn could have lived.
    When the vote is tied, the dead player is decided at random. I would have been leaving it up to a 50/50 between you and Dunn, and while I was pretty sure it was v/v, I was a fair bit MORE sure on you being v - plus, len had just spent the past full minute or so telegraphing that she was about to vote you, hence my swap. Leaving it at a tie just meant your chances of dying were 50% instead of 0%, where I wanted them.

    Forgive me if I'm not looking to defuse the rest of your read on me, because the reason I found you as town so effectively is because I'm a God Gamer [and probably because i know you pretty dang well]. Lemme look at these questions, though.

    -Amy, what are your general thoughts on Bee being killed during the night phase? Loaded question: DO you think it was an overall benefit for the game since he was largely afk and a little unhelpful?
    Well, I would have preferred an SSR shot - but given the alternative to beeboy getting shot was apparently ME getting shot, I guess I should be counting my blessings. I think beeboy dying was beneficial in the way that any suspected town slot dying is beneficial: it narrows the suspect pool, it provides a confirmed alignment to read back on and solve using, and it just generally sorta Has To Happen. Beyond that, there were better targets, but it's hard to fault SR for the shot.

    -Amy, any reason that some of your harder targets seem to be people with low posts and low meaningful participation? Is it just a coincidence?
    I'd say it's largely a coincidence? I assume you're talking largely about SSR and jav here. I've found SSR's posts to be wolfy completely independent of his engagement, and I in fact think his engagement level has nothing to do with his alignment (he DID say he was in Canada). The jav read IS more influenced by that, because they DID seem more invested early on than they do now, and while normally I would want to take like 1 more day before making a call on whether that dropoff looks suspicious, we don't have the luxury of time here. I also do take issue with things they've posted, so my read isn't solely based on engagement.

    -@ all, could anyone maybe explain in further detail as to why it seems wolfy to just not talk? I'm gathering a lot of it has to do with they get free information and you can't get next to any reads one way or another with no information from them if they don't talk. Is there more to it? Does silence benefit them or put more suspicion on them?
    It's... a bit more nuanced than this.

    There ARE some people who just Post Less as a wolf, but that's hardly a universal tell. But you also can't really TOWNread people if they aren't posting, and that can become a problem in games where a lot of people ARE posting and ARE giving people reasons to townread them. A good example of that this game is Len, who looked kinda shady when she only had like 8 posts and then moved pretty solidly into my townpile once there was more to look at. Unless the high posters are Actively Being Suspicious, the lowposters tend to fall into the PoE just by default because there's no one else people wanna push lol
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  24. ISO #524
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    hi i am again not really free to really post all that much in this game considering i have a massive amount of work due tomorrow. i think hammy’s stuff today has been mega town and i really like the direction it’s going

    shr as vig makes sense cos he was kind of staying back and trying not to lead a lot but still giving his reads albeit in a more condensed manner.

    i read the thread this morning and remembered ara asking me to read ssr this morning and started an iso analysis but got distracted by being really hungry, so i’ll do that tomorrow morning maybe.

    i am using spaces are you guys proud

    anyways i still have not had a response on most of my prior thread messages except for amy saying that it was very stream of consciousness but noting that i could also do that as scum, would rly like a response from len in particular if you’re free

    feel like this day might end up looking like me on the chopping block and i don’t mind that cos then i won’t be mistakenly lynched tmr when it actually matters assuming the vig either doesn’t shoot or hits a mafia

    my vote on amy is not a joke

    my reasoning is that i think she’s scum with ssr, haven’t been townpinged by most of her posts and lack of towny things means scum to me, probably.

    still quite scared of the world where ara is just pocketing me as scum

    will be up to respond to things for about a half hour

  25. ISO #525
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  26. ISO #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#524)
    hi i am again not really free to really post all that much in this game considering i have a massive amount of work due tomorrow. i think hammy’s stuff today has been mega town and i really like the direction it’s going

    shr as vig makes sense cos he was kind of staying back and trying not to lead a lot but still giving his reads albeit in a more condensed manner.

    i read the thread this morning and remembered ara asking me to read ssr this morning and started an iso analysis but got distracted by being really hungry, so i’ll do that tomorrow morning maybe.

    i am using spaces are you guys proud

    anyways i still have not had a response on most of my prior thread messages except for amy saying that it was very stream of consciousness but noting that i could also do that as scum, would rly like a response from len in particular if you’re free

    feel like this day might end up looking like me on the chopping block and i don’t mind that cos then i won’t be mistakenly lynched tmr when it actually matters assuming the vig either doesn’t shoot or hits a mafia

    my vote on amy is not a joke

    my reasoning is that i think she’s scum with ssr, haven’t been townpinged by most of her posts and lack of towny things means scum to me, probably.

    still quite scared of the world where ara is just pocketing me as scum

    will be up to respond to things for about a half hour
    why do you think i'm with ssr specifically?
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  27. ISO #527
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#509)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#503)
    Okay, to maybe bring some conversation back to life here, Amy asked who I'd shoot if I had two bullets. I'll start with the less spicy one, but I also want to preface with: I've read all the posts for day 2, but they don't have much bearing on the following thoughts. Most of these things occurred to me while at work today. So take one, one of my bullets would still be for Len; mostly because I seem to be the only one still out of the loop. But before I get people mad, I'm not so hot on this. So here's my confusion.

    From my interpretation, we had big sus on Len, gave her time to respond, and she responded with an average defense. The defense was just average and included other points of digging/ solving thrown in there, and then we got to the big SR and Len fight. The point of divergence is everyone seems to interpret Len's tone during that as huge town/ big vibes, but I disagree. At the very least I think it's not AI on either side, I think it's just... well the exact reaction you'd give on either wolf or town. I think I'd be pissed if my genuine, baseline but very sound wolftalk wasn't working, and equally pissed if I was a town being accused of wolf for the SMALLEST thing when I thought my words weren't working. I feel like the enthusiasm can come from both wolf side and town side, as opposed to being exclusively town leaning. I totally understand getting mad when you feel like you're talking to an obstinate, hypocritical wall!!!

    I also took the time to look at Len's entire ISO. It was a lot, but it brings me to a very wild and unsubstantiated theory. I know I dropped a huge bomb with my vote switch, my wagon switch, but I find the remaining people who voted after just as interesting.

    My wacky theory: right around EoD we have the fight and then we get into lightning round. PERHAPS Len notices that Dunn's public opinion has been waffling the whole game. It's not a stretch to say that most of the people who read Dunn as both wolf and town agreed on one common point that he wasn't very elaborate nor was he very polite in many of his posts. Nearly every response was a sharp jab from him. Picking up on that she does her ISO which has a lot of scumreads on a lot of people, but Dunn comes up pretty frequently. Heavy theoretically, but perhaps it's to just kinda put her points at the front of people's minds, possibly. I believe it could be genuine ISO thoughts. Debate goes on and more people are on the Dunn wagon. And after placing my vote already, I walk in and change my vote, theoretically falling for Len's Dunn campaign. Again, at the time I don't realize how wolf of a move that is, but it also creates an opening. Len instead of having to do a hard balance of campaigning for Dunn while making the reasons organic but also keeping sus off of her, she now just has the easiest wolf campaign of her life. With a wolf move like that how could anyone even think of disagreeing with her? It's free and easy to get me out. Is that not a bus of her own? Theoretically wouldn't matter to her. If she knows, she gets either one town out. And if she can get me, then Dunn already has a lot of damnation on his head.

    Again, massive what if theory, and it has a lot of ASTERISKS HERE. I genuinely don't think I have the room to make such a wild and flagrant claim, but it's what my brain has. I have more to add, but I figure for simplicity's sake I'll put it in a second post for people to pick parts easier.
    Okay so wrt Len here, what do you think her goal was at eod? Why do you see her compelled to go to Dunn in the first place as a wolf?
    My best guess given this theory is that Dunn was a sleeper path of least resistance and Len realized it? As Ara put it, because of Dunn's standoffish posts Len ignited a campaign against him and "nobody really vetoed it." I was included, but I feel most people who gave Dunn any reads gave him the benefit of the doubt and saw him as town, but they were kinda bleh about Dunn's tone overall. Len banks on the fact that even if people read Dunn town they just won't care if Dunn gets axed. Seems to be the case that a lot of people were on the fence and as the momentum kept going people just went along. Dunn was also relatively consistent in not showing his cards to anyone, he was short and curt and didn't explain his reasoning. Since that trend kept up Dunn kept making himself an easier and easier target as he was pushed, so once she got the momentum she could just keep going and people didn't fight Len's push on it.

    In other words, it could have been a somewhat blind push based on a few observations that was too good to not take off.

  28. ISO #528
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#523)
    @Hammy

    It's EXTREMELY funny to me that I've managed to stare into your soul so hard that you think I have TMI.

    That said, thank you for fully townslipping with this post.

    And if you had the power to still get rid of Bee for a more engaging game, might you? My bat$%#! theory is that's what we got out of the night kills. Amy gets rid of an afk Bee for a more engaging game and because she wanted to during the day. If they can talk and collaborate on kills, the further result becomes that wolf 2 kills Claire to also help Amy's defense.
    So let me clear up how this works:
    - the two members of the mafia share a chat and can talk to each other at any time, day or night
    - they have one kill between the two of them
    - the second death came from the vigilante, a town role; SR is the one who shot beeboy

    Also, regarding the vote:
    I have no idea what leaving it at 3/3 would have done, but maybe it would have resulted in Not A Kill and Dunn could have lived.
    When the vote is tied, the dead player is decided at random. I would have been leaving it up to a 50/50 between you and Dunn, and while I was pretty sure it was v/v, I was a fair bit MORE sure on you being v - plus, len had just spent the past full minute or so telegraphing that she was about to vote you, hence my swap. Leaving it at a tie just meant your chances of dying were 50% instead of 0%, where I wanted them.

    Forgive me if I'm not looking to defuse the rest of your read on me, because the reason I found you as town so effectively is because I'm a God Gamer [and probably because i know you pretty dang well]. Lemme look at these questions, though.

    -Amy, what are your general thoughts on Bee being killed during the night phase? Loaded question: DO you think it was an overall benefit for the game since he was largely afk and a little unhelpful?
    Well, I would have preferred an SSR shot - but given the alternative to beeboy getting shot was apparently ME getting shot, I guess I should be counting my blessings. I think beeboy dying was beneficial in the way that any suspected town slot dying is beneficial: it narrows the suspect pool, it provides a confirmed alignment to read back on and solve using, and it just generally sorta Has To Happen. Beyond that, there were better targets, but it's hard to fault SR for the shot.

    -Amy, any reason that some of your harder targets seem to be people with low posts and low meaningful participation? Is it just a coincidence?
    I'd say it's largely a coincidence? I assume you're talking largely about SSR and jav here. I've found SSR's posts to be wolfy completely independent of his engagement, and I in fact think his engagement level has nothing to do with his alignment (he DID say he was in Canada). The jav read IS more influenced by that, because they DID seem more invested early on than they do now, and while normally I would want to take like 1 more day before making a call on whether that dropoff looks suspicious, we don't have the luxury of time here. I also do take issue with things they've posted, so my read isn't solely based on engagement.

    -@ all, could anyone maybe explain in further detail as to why it seems wolfy to just not talk? I'm gathering a lot of it has to do with they get free information and you can't get next to any reads one way or another with no information from them if they don't talk. Is there more to it? Does silence benefit them or put more suspicion on them?
    It's... a bit more nuanced than this.

    There ARE some people who just Post Less as a wolf, but that's hardly a universal tell. But you also can't really TOWNread people if they aren't posting, and that can become a problem in games where a lot of people ARE posting and ARE giving people reasons to townread them. A good example of that this game is Len, who looked kinda shady when she only had like 8 posts and then moved pretty solidly into my townpile once there was more to look at. Unless the high posters are Actively Being Suspicious, the lowposters tend to fall into the PoE just by default because there's no one else people wanna push lol
    sorry about the low post counts, i have been writing essays the entire day and will continue to be doing so tomorrow considering they’re due tomorrow. rly should have done these earlier

    can you explain what you had issues with in my previous posts? thank you
    also shr claimed shooting riri i thought not beeboy which surprised me somewhat because i thought she was everyone’s townread

  29. ISO #529
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#526)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#524)
    hi i am again not really free to really post all that much in this game considering i have a massive amount of work due tomorrow. i think hammy’s stuff today has been mega town and i really like the direction it’s going

    shr as vig makes sense cos he was kind of staying back and trying not to lead a lot but still giving his reads albeit in a more condensed manner.

    i read the thread this morning and remembered ara asking me to read ssr this morning and started an iso analysis but got distracted by being really hungry, so i’ll do that tomorrow morning maybe.

    i am using spaces are you guys proud

    anyways i still have not had a response on most of my prior thread messages except for amy saying that it was very stream of consciousness but noting that i could also do that as scum, would rly like a response from len in particular if you’re free

    feel like this day might end up looking like me on the chopping block and i don’t mind that cos then i won’t be mistakenly lynched tmr when it actually matters assuming the vig either doesn’t shoot or hits a mafia

    my vote on amy is not a joke

    my reasoning is that i think she’s scum with ssr, haven’t been townpinged by most of her posts and lack of towny things means scum to me, probably.

    still quite scared of the world where ara is just pocketing me as scum

    will be up to respond to things for about a half hour
    why do you think i'm with ssr specifically?
    he is my other scumread, with the third being len (less so)

  30. ISO #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#529)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#526)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#524)
    hi i am again not really free to really post all that much in this game considering i have a massive amount of work due tomorrow. i think hammy’s stuff today has been mega town and i really like the direction it’s going

    shr as vig makes sense cos he was kind of staying back and trying not to lead a lot but still giving his reads albeit in a more condensed manner.

    i read the thread this morning and remembered ara asking me to read ssr this morning and started an iso analysis but got distracted by being really hungry, so i’ll do that tomorrow morning maybe.

    i am using spaces are you guys proud

    anyways i still have not had a response on most of my prior thread messages except for amy saying that it was very stream of consciousness but noting that i could also do that as scum, would rly like a response from len in particular if you’re free

    feel like this day might end up looking like me on the chopping block and i don’t mind that cos then i won’t be mistakenly lynched tmr when it actually matters assuming the vig either doesn’t shoot or hits a mafia

    my vote on amy is not a joke

    my reasoning is that i think she’s scum with ssr, haven’t been townpinged by most of her posts and lack of towny things means scum to me, probably.

    still quite scared of the world where ara is just pocketing me as scum

    will be up to respond to things for about a half hour
    why do you think i'm with ssr specifically?
    he is my other scumread, with the third being len (less so)
    does the fact that i was pushing ssr for most of yesterday and the first half of today weigh into this at all?
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  31. ISO #531
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#530)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#529)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#526)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#524)
    hi i am again not really free to really post all that much in this game considering i have a massive amount of work due tomorrow. i think hammy’s stuff today has been mega town and i really like the direction it’s going

    shr as vig makes sense cos he was kind of staying back and trying not to lead a lot but still giving his reads albeit in a more condensed manner.

    i read the thread this morning and remembered ara asking me to read ssr this morning and started an iso analysis but got distracted by being really hungry, so i’ll do that tomorrow morning maybe.

    i am using spaces are you guys proud

    anyways i still have not had a response on most of my prior thread messages except for amy saying that it was very stream of consciousness but noting that i could also do that as scum, would rly like a response from len in particular if you’re free

    feel like this day might end up looking like me on the chopping block and i don’t mind that cos then i won’t be mistakenly lynched tmr when it actually matters assuming the vig either doesn’t shoot or hits a mafia

    my vote on amy is not a joke

    my reasoning is that i think she’s scum with ssr, haven’t been townpinged by most of her posts and lack of towny things means scum to me, probably.

    still quite scared of the world where ara is just pocketing me as scum

    will be up to respond to things for about a half hour
    why do you think i'm with ssr specifically?
    he is my other scumread, with the third being len (less so)
    does the fact that i was pushing ssr for most of yesterday and the first half of today weigh into this at all?
    no? i don’t care who you’re pushing ngl i just see towny things vs non towny things and so far points wise you ssr and len have the least towny points in my eyes

  32. ISO #532
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

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  33. ISO #533
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#527)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#509)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#503)
    Okay, to maybe bring some conversation back to life here, Amy asked who I'd shoot if I had two bullets. I'll start with the less spicy one, but I also want to preface with: I've read all the posts for day 2, but they don't have much bearing on the following thoughts. Most of these things occurred to me while at work today. So take one, one of my bullets would still be for Len; mostly because I seem to be the only one still out of the loop. But before I get people mad, I'm not so hot on this. So here's my confusion.

    From my interpretation, we had big sus on Len, gave her time to respond, and she responded with an average defense. The defense was just average and included other points of digging/ solving thrown in there, and then we got to the big SR and Len fight. The point of divergence is everyone seems to interpret Len's tone during that as huge town/ big vibes, but I disagree. At the very least I think it's not AI on either side, I think it's just... well the exact reaction you'd give on either wolf or town. I think I'd be pissed if my genuine, baseline but very sound wolftalk wasn't working, and equally pissed if I was a town being accused of wolf for the SMALLEST thing when I thought my words weren't working. I feel like the enthusiasm can come from both wolf side and town side, as opposed to being exclusively town leaning. I totally understand getting mad when you feel like you're talking to an obstinate, hypocritical wall!!!

    I also took the time to look at Len's entire ISO. It was a lot, but it brings me to a very wild and unsubstantiated theory. I know I dropped a huge bomb with my vote switch, my wagon switch, but I find the remaining people who voted after just as interesting.

    My wacky theory: right around EoD we have the fight and then we get into lightning round. PERHAPS Len notices that Dunn's public opinion has been waffling the whole game. It's not a stretch to say that most of the people who read Dunn as both wolf and town agreed on one common point that he wasn't very elaborate nor was he very polite in many of his posts. Nearly every response was a sharp jab from him. Picking up on that she does her ISO which has a lot of scumreads on a lot of people, but Dunn comes up pretty frequently. Heavy theoretically, but perhaps it's to just kinda put her points at the front of people's minds, possibly. I believe it could be genuine ISO thoughts. Debate goes on and more people are on the Dunn wagon. And after placing my vote already, I walk in and change my vote, theoretically falling for Len's Dunn campaign. Again, at the time I don't realize how wolf of a move that is, but it also creates an opening. Len instead of having to do a hard balance of campaigning for Dunn while making the reasons organic but also keeping sus off of her, she now just has the easiest wolf campaign of her life. With a wolf move like that how could anyone even think of disagreeing with her? It's free and easy to get me out. Is that not a bus of her own? Theoretically wouldn't matter to her. If she knows, she gets either one town out. And if she can get me, then Dunn already has a lot of damnation on his head.

    Again, massive what if theory, and it has a lot of ASTERISKS HERE. I genuinely don't think I have the room to make such a wild and flagrant claim, but it's what my brain has. I have more to add, but I figure for simplicity's sake I'll put it in a second post for people to pick parts easier.
    Okay so wrt Len here, what do you think her goal was at eod? Why do you see her compelled to go to Dunn in the first place as a wolf?
    My best guess given this theory is that Dunn was a sleeper path of least resistance and Len realized it? As Ara put it, because of Dunn's standoffish posts Len ignited a campaign against him and "nobody really vetoed it." I was included, but I feel most people who gave Dunn any reads gave him the benefit of the doubt and saw him as town, but they were kinda bleh about Dunn's tone overall. Len banks on the fact that even if people read Dunn town they just won't care if Dunn gets axed. Seems to be the case that a lot of people were on the fence and as the momentum kept going people just went along. Dunn was also relatively consistent in not showing his cards to anyone, he was short and curt and didn't explain his reasoning. Since that trend kept up Dunn kept making himself an easier and easier target as he was pushed, so once she got the momentum she could just keep going and people didn't fight Len's push on it.

    In other words, it could have been a somewhat blind push based on a few observations that was too good to not take off.
    Why, was there an issue for her though wrt the previous direction of the thread? Did it need changing for a particular reason?
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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  34. ISO #534
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#528)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#523)
    @Hammy

    It's EXTREMELY funny to me that I've managed to stare into your soul so hard that you think I have TMI.

    That said, thank you for fully townslipping with this post.

    And if you had the power to still get rid of Bee for a more engaging game, might you? My bat$%#! theory is that's what we got out of the night kills. Amy gets rid of an afk Bee for a more engaging game and because she wanted to during the day. If they can talk and collaborate on kills, the further result becomes that wolf 2 kills Claire to also help Amy's defense.
    So let me clear up how this works:
    - the two members of the mafia share a chat and can talk to each other at any time, day or night
    - they have one kill between the two of them
    - the second death came from the vigilante, a town role; SR is the one who shot beeboy

    Also, regarding the vote:
    I have no idea what leaving it at 3/3 would have done, but maybe it would have resulted in Not A Kill and Dunn could have lived.
    When the vote is tied, the dead player is decided at random. I would have been leaving it up to a 50/50 between you and Dunn, and while I was pretty sure it was v/v, I was a fair bit MORE sure on you being v - plus, len had just spent the past full minute or so telegraphing that she was about to vote you, hence my swap. Leaving it at a tie just meant your chances of dying were 50% instead of 0%, where I wanted them.

    Forgive me if I'm not looking to defuse the rest of your read on me, because the reason I found you as town so effectively is because I'm a God Gamer [and probably because i know you pretty dang well]. Lemme look at these questions, though.

    -Amy, what are your general thoughts on Bee being killed during the night phase? Loaded question: DO you think it was an overall benefit for the game since he was largely afk and a little unhelpful?
    Well, I would have preferred an SSR shot - but given the alternative to beeboy getting shot was apparently ME getting shot, I guess I should be counting my blessings. I think beeboy dying was beneficial in the way that any suspected town slot dying is beneficial: it narrows the suspect pool, it provides a confirmed alignment to read back on and solve using, and it just generally sorta Has To Happen. Beyond that, there were better targets, but it's hard to fault SR for the shot.

    -Amy, any reason that some of your harder targets seem to be people with low posts and low meaningful participation? Is it just a coincidence?
    I'd say it's largely a coincidence? I assume you're talking largely about SSR and jav here. I've found SSR's posts to be wolfy completely independent of his engagement, and I in fact think his engagement level has nothing to do with his alignment (he DID say he was in Canada). The jav read IS more influenced by that, because they DID seem more invested early on than they do now, and while normally I would want to take like 1 more day before making a call on whether that dropoff looks suspicious, we don't have the luxury of time here. I also do take issue with things they've posted, so my read isn't solely based on engagement.

    -@ all, could anyone maybe explain in further detail as to why it seems wolfy to just not talk? I'm gathering a lot of it has to do with they get free information and you can't get next to any reads one way or another with no information from them if they don't talk. Is there more to it? Does silence benefit them or put more suspicion on them?
    It's... a bit more nuanced than this.

    There ARE some people who just Post Less as a wolf, but that's hardly a universal tell. But you also can't really TOWNread people if they aren't posting, and that can become a problem in games where a lot of people ARE posting and ARE giving people reasons to townread them. A good example of that this game is Len, who looked kinda shady when she only had like 8 posts and then moved pretty solidly into my townpile once there was more to look at. Unless the high posters are Actively Being Suspicious, the lowposters tend to fall into the PoE just by default because there's no one else people wanna push lol
    sorry about the low post counts, i have been writing essays the entire day and will continue to be doing so tomorrow considering they’re due tomorrow. rly should have done these earlier

    can you explain what you had issues with in my previous posts? thank you
    also shr claimed shooting riri i thought not beeboy which surprised me somewhat because i thought she was everyone’s townread
    No, I didn't claim that
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
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    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  35. ISO #535
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    I believe the suspicion on Ara has skyrocketed after her asking for vig. Which is a shame because one way or another it was a good post to realign the thread, but we'll have to nail more and probably look at past posts to get a really, really solid wolfread. (The wolfread is looking solid already, but can be swayed)

  36. ISO #536
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy (#535)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    I believe the suspicion on Ara has skyrocketed after her asking for vig. Which is a shame because one way or another it was a good post to realign the thread, but we'll have to nail more and probably look at past posts to get a really, really solid wolfread. (The wolfread is looking solid already, but can be swayed)
    How exactly did it realign the thread? I don't think me outing as vig has caused any sort or shift in the thread at all outside of Amy's response to me and confidence on SSR.
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  37. ISO #537
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#499)
    I hate this obnoxious forced outing, but it's probably obvious I ignored it and it makes me anxious that it makes me obvious anyways so I'll just out that I'm the vig, that was probably a massive waste since I wasn't dying today anyways and I doubt someone wins a cc there, tho I was trying to hide it with the way I was discussing Claire claim on Amy

    Almost shot Amy, chickened out, immediately regretted it on Claire flip
    ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but chickened out and instead shot claire and regretted it on the flip” my b

  38. ISO #538
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#537)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#499)
    I hate this obnoxious forced outing, but it's probably obvious I ignored it and it makes me anxious that it makes me obvious anyways so I'll just out that I'm the vig, that was probably a massive waste since I wasn't dying today anyways and I doubt someone wins a cc there, tho I was trying to hide it with the way I was discussing Claire claim on Amy

    Almost shot Amy, chickened out, immediately regretted it on Claire flip
    ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but chickened out and instead shot claire and regretted it on the flip” my b
    I'm not convinced you're not trying to get me to derp clear you for seeming to think I could have shot Claire
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  39. ISO #539
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#538)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#537)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#499)
    I hate this obnoxious forced outing, but it's probably obvious I ignored it and it makes me anxious that it makes me obvious anyways so I'll just out that I'm the vig, that was probably a massive waste since I wasn't dying today anyways and I doubt someone wins a cc there, tho I was trying to hide it with the way I was discussing Claire claim on Amy

    Almost shot Amy, chickened out, immediately regretted it on Claire flip
    ok i misread this as “i almost shot amy but chickened out and instead shot claire and regretted it on the flip” my b
    I'm not convinced you're not trying to get me to derp clear you for seeming to think I could have shot Claire
    i promise i’m not, i thought it was a bit odd but i wasn’t paying attention to your reads n1 and thought maybe you could’ve been paranoid about her and that was the end of my thought process

  40. ISO #540
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    it's unironically your fault that i've got ara in my PoE LOL

    You getting salty at Ara over forcing the claim plan got me thinking about the plan in general - trying to figure out "would town or wolf ara be more likely to propose this", and I honestly think the answer is wolf Ara. Additionally, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that my reasons to townread Ara aren't the world's strongest - certainly they're weaker than my reasoning on Hammy and Len - so after you claimed she was kinda already in my bottom 3 by default, meaning if I don't think it's exactly jav/ssr she becomes the next one up.

    Thinking about it more I kinda come up with more reasons to dislike the claim post. Her coming out with it halfway through the day could go either way but I don't think it's great, mostly because I kinda don't see what motivates v!Ara to feel like she has to post it there; feel like it's something v!Ara would have considered overnight, if anything. I think what I'm REALLY starting to dislike is the fact that she forced the plan through. Think v!Ara at least tries to hear feedback or opens the floor for discussion - but her claiming vt off the bat forces the plan and she knows it. Do not like.

    I am somewhat curious to hear your take on teambuilding wrt those 3, especially if you think my approach is flawed here.
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  41. ISO #541
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3

  42. ISO #542
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    ...maybe i'm wrong to too quickly discount an Ara/SSR world?

    The thread was stagnant on me/SSR wagons, and Ara didn't leave herself a ton of room to reasonably swap onto me; if she's a wolf feeling cornered by that, this could potentially be her hail mary to realign things away from that.

    The counterargument there is that if jav winds up being the vig it's kinda catastrophic, cause then I triple down on SSR and SR is still on the brink of joining me. I think it's MORE likely that Ara does this to secure an already-favorable thread position than to try to salvage a lost one, especially because I don't think anyone was really linking her to SSR at all and she could probably just shut up and bus him and try to go deep.

    yeah ok i talked myself out of it, ara/ssr probably just isn't viable
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    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  43. ISO #543
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#540)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#522)
    Ngl, some concern here Amy is trying to sort of throw $%#! everywhere and make it more chaotic
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    it's unironically your fault that i've got ara in my PoE LOL

    You getting salty at Ara over forcing the claim plan got me thinking about the plan in general - trying to figure out "would town or wolf ara be more likely to propose this", and I honestly think the answer is wolf Ara. Additionally, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that my reasons to townread Ara aren't the world's strongest - certainly they're weaker than my reasoning on Hammy and Len - so after you claimed she was kinda already in my bottom 3 by default, meaning if I don't think it's exactly jav/ssr she becomes the next one up.

    Thinking about it more I kinda come up with more reasons to dislike the claim post. Her coming out with it halfway through the day could go either way but I don't think it's great, mostly because I kinda don't see what motivates v!Ara to feel like she has to post it there; feel like it's something v!Ara would have considered overnight, if anything. I think what I'm REALLY starting to dislike is the fact that she forced the plan through. Think v!Ara at least tries to hear feedback or opens the floor for discussion - but her claiming vt off the bat forces the plan and she knows it. Do not like.

    I am somewhat curious to hear your take on teambuilding wrt those 3, especially if you think my approach is flawed here.
    Tbh I'm at a mess of a position where only Len is someone I'd never consider here

    Very worried that Hammy is being super performative here with his deductions etc. It all feels very dramatic and feel more in the presentation that the content and it feels like I'm being sold something.

    Ara's *posts* feel good, but that claim thing as much as I'm side eying you for it given I'm not fully comfortable with you atm is a strong point and I'm worried I tried to overlook irritation at the forced claim too much and gave it too much leeway. If it weren't for that I'd just thinks he was town right below Len, off way she's been handled and also her posts today

    Jav feels like she's drowning in not enough time and insufficient attention in thread. She doesn't ever feel good but also idk what to expect of town jav and I can just imagine potential wolf jav a lot better in my head so I think I can keep seeing potential wolf motives in her.

    And SSR just doesn't exist enough though yeah I'm feeling the possibility for him


    In other words, I lack any clarity on the game at all aside from Len town
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

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    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  44. ISO #544
    Low Hanging Fruit Hammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#536)


    How exactly did it realign the thread? I don't think me outing as vig has caused any sort or shift in the thread at all outside of Amy's response to me and confidence on SSR.
    Oh, idk if it shifts the whole thread. I just got an inkling of it being weird when doing my Len post, and then it's all been about Amy and her (seeming) opinion that Ara's question also felt odd to her. Going back a few questions it just follows that since Amy's read of Ara's vig question makes Ara no longer solidly in town, that she wouldn't be on the clear list and would therefore be in suspicion. I think it's just me and Amy that are expressing concern and affecting the thread.

  45. ISO #545
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#541)
    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
    ssr/ara is the least likely world of the 3, as i just detailed; still working on exactly where i stand between you/ara and you/ssr

    i recognize that you asked me about what i dislike in your posts and i've been somewhat dancing around it; that's largely because i've been trying to figure out how to word it most properly. i think my biggest thing is that i'm feeling somewhat of a lack of continuity/macro gamesense from your posts, and i think you'd be able to more effectively visualize the Bigger Picture as a villager.
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  46. ISO #546
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#543)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#540)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#525)
    there are literally 3 slots that i'm suspicious of? in a game with 2 wolves alive? and i'm currently looking into the overlap between possible wolfteams, because i don't really see partners for ara OR ssr outside of jav; certainly i don't think they're partnered with each other

    when i clear you/hammy/len, which i feel pretty comfortable doing, the game turns into a teambuilding exercise
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    it's unironically your fault that i've got ara in my PoE LOL

    You getting salty at Ara over forcing the claim plan got me thinking about the plan in general - trying to figure out "would town or wolf ara be more likely to propose this", and I honestly think the answer is wolf Ara. Additionally, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that my reasons to townread Ara aren't the world's strongest - certainly they're weaker than my reasoning on Hammy and Len - so after you claimed she was kinda already in my bottom 3 by default, meaning if I don't think it's exactly jav/ssr she becomes the next one up.

    Thinking about it more I kinda come up with more reasons to dislike the claim post. Her coming out with it halfway through the day could go either way but I don't think it's great, mostly because I kinda don't see what motivates v!Ara to feel like she has to post it there; feel like it's something v!Ara would have considered overnight, if anything. I think what I'm REALLY starting to dislike is the fact that she forced the plan through. Think v!Ara at least tries to hear feedback or opens the floor for discussion - but her claiming vt off the bat forces the plan and she knows it. Do not like.

    I am somewhat curious to hear your take on teambuilding wrt those 3, especially if you think my approach is flawed here.
    Tbh I'm at a mess of a position where only Len is someone I'd never consider here

    Very worried that Hammy is being super performative here with his deductions etc. It all feels very dramatic and feel more in the presentation that the content and it feels like I'm being sold something.

    Ara's *posts* feel good, but that claim thing as much as I'm side eying you for it given I'm not fully comfortable with you atm is a strong point and I'm worried I tried to overlook irritation at the forced claim too much and gave it too much leeway. If it weren't for that I'd just thinks he was town right below Len, off way she's been handled and also her posts today

    Jav feels like she's drowning in not enough time and insufficient attention in thread. She doesn't ever feel good but also idk what to expect of town jav and I can just imagine potential wolf jav a lot better in my head so I think I can keep seeing potential wolf motives in her.

    And SSR just doesn't exist enough though yeah I'm feeling the possibility for him


    In other words, I lack any clarity on the game at all aside from Len town
    p sure hammy townslipped in p#508

    see the first section of p#523
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  47. ISO #547
    Thread Analyst Javelinlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#545)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#541)
    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
    ssr/ara is the least likely world of the 3, as i just detailed; still working on exactly where i stand between you/ara and you/ssr

    i recognize that you asked me about what i dislike in your posts and i've been somewhat dancing around it; that's largely because i've been trying to figure out how to word it most properly. i think my biggest thing is that i'm feeling somewhat of a lack of continuity/macro gamesense from your posts, and i think you'd be able to more effectively visualize the Bigger Picture as a villager.
    why not push harder on me then if i am the common thread between the two more likely pairs? i feel like you are just lightly scumreading me for some vague reason like you don’t like my posts and aren’t really pushing hard on me even tho i am your strongest scumread rn? like the current people scum reading me are you and len mostly and len also did the same vague don’t like my posts bs without telling me what you don’t like so i can explain my thought process

    wrt discontinuity of posts thing i always post immediately after reading the thread basically and just posting a tldr of my thoughts cos i really don’t have time to do anything more than that. however i think i give good citations as to where my feelings change usually, not with specific post counts but i have been saying like key phrases from various posts and explaining why those change my reads and i don’t get what you don’t like about that.

    i’m not quite sure what i am supposed to be doing here to be not scumread and at this point i think my most productive option is just to die because then you can read off my flip lmao

  48. ISO #548
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#546)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#543)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#540)
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#532)
    Mmm. I guess it's mainly you pulling Ara back in to consideration when you really had no suspicion on her prior that I can recall?
    it's unironically your fault that i've got ara in my PoE LOL

    You getting salty at Ara over forcing the claim plan got me thinking about the plan in general - trying to figure out "would town or wolf ara be more likely to propose this", and I honestly think the answer is wolf Ara. Additionally, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that my reasons to townread Ara aren't the world's strongest - certainly they're weaker than my reasoning on Hammy and Len - so after you claimed she was kinda already in my bottom 3 by default, meaning if I don't think it's exactly jav/ssr she becomes the next one up.

    Thinking about it more I kinda come up with more reasons to dislike the claim post. Her coming out with it halfway through the day could go either way but I don't think it's great, mostly because I kinda don't see what motivates v!Ara to feel like she has to post it there; feel like it's something v!Ara would have considered overnight, if anything. I think what I'm REALLY starting to dislike is the fact that she forced the plan through. Think v!Ara at least tries to hear feedback or opens the floor for discussion - but her claiming vt off the bat forces the plan and she knows it. Do not like.

    I am somewhat curious to hear your take on teambuilding wrt those 3, especially if you think my approach is flawed here.
    Tbh I'm at a mess of a position where only Len is someone I'd never consider here

    Very worried that Hammy is being super performative here with his deductions etc. It all feels very dramatic and feel more in the presentation that the content and it feels like I'm being sold something.

    Ara's *posts* feel good, but that claim thing as much as I'm side eying you for it given I'm not fully comfortable with you atm is a strong point and I'm worried I tried to overlook irritation at the forced claim too much and gave it too much leeway. If it weren't for that I'd just thinks he was town right below Len, off way she's been handled and also her posts today

    Jav feels like she's drowning in not enough time and insufficient attention in thread. She doesn't ever feel good but also idk what to expect of town jav and I can just imagine potential wolf jav a lot better in my head so I think I can keep seeing potential wolf motives in her.

    And SSR just doesn't exist enough though yeah I'm feeling the possibility for him


    In other words, I lack any clarity on the game at all aside from Len town
    p sure hammy townslipped in p#508

    see the first section of p#523
    I am not super feeling like handing out derp clears tbh, not clear wrt if people would try to fake them or if a you/hammy team would involve you telling him to do that for instance. (Yes I know the retro vote count thing but also I was waiting to see if you'd comment on why it ever existed and half wondering if you just slipped and accidentally called it up)
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  49. ISO #549
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#547)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#545)
    Quote Originally Posted by Javelinlover (#541)
    amy in your three what do you think the most likely pairs are? like ranked from 1 to 3
    ssr/ara is the least likely world of the 3, as i just detailed; still working on exactly where i stand between you/ara and you/ssr

    i recognize that you asked me about what i dislike in your posts and i've been somewhat dancing around it; that's largely because i've been trying to figure out how to word it most properly. i think my biggest thing is that i'm feeling somewhat of a lack of continuity/macro gamesense from your posts, and i think you'd be able to more effectively visualize the Bigger Picture as a villager.
    why not push harder on me then if i am the common thread between the two more likely pairs? i feel like you are just lightly scumreading me for some vague reason like you don’t like my posts and aren’t really pushing hard on me even tho i am your strongest scumread rn? like the current people scum reading me are you and len mostly and len also did the same vague don’t like my posts bs without telling me what you don’t like so i can explain my thought process

    wrt discontinuity of posts thing i always post immediately after reading the thread basically and just posting a tldr of my thoughts cos i really don’t have time to do anything more than that. however i think i give good citations as to where my feelings change usually, not with specific post counts but i have been saying like key phrases from various posts and explaining why those change my reads and i don’t get what you don’t like about that.

    i’m not quite sure what i am supposed to be doing here to be not scumread and at this point i think my most productive option is just to die because then you can read off my flip lmao
    i have been asking you questions (speaking of which, i dropped you a bunch last night and you never replied) and am currently voting you; am not sure what else you mean by pushing if not that? my issue with your posts isn't on micro level $%#!, it's broader overall process things that are harder to elicit a direct response from, hence why i've been trying to gauge your mindset in other areas instead

    i don't have any issue with you posting your thoughts in snap take format but it feels like you... don't consider the larger implications of your reads, at all. especially with this me/ssr thing, i just. i don't understand how you think that's a viable team? like i KNOW you know how to read a gamestate, you're damn good at eimm, i would expect you to be on the lookout for when people look like they're working together and when they obviously aren't. the fact that all your wolfreads exist in a vacuum is a red flag to me

    the best thing you can do to help me find you as town is to A. answer my questions lol and B. just continue to play the game, post your thoughts, shore up your reads on other people, generally show me that you're looking for the wolves.

    i'm probably done for the night, wanna hold posts for tomorrow (especially since i'll be getting my 2nd shot and won't really have anything better to do beyond that)
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

  50. ISO #550
    あんた ばか Ampharos's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#548)
    I am not super feeling like handing out derp clears tbh, not clear wrt if people would try to fake them or if a you/hammy team would involve you telling him to do that for instance. (Yes I know the retro vote count thing but also I was waiting to see if you'd comment on why it ever existed and half wondering if you just slipped and accidentally called it up)
    i mostly just wanted to look at the votecount in color to see if anything jumped out at me, and nothing really did

    i considered trying to go over eod in more depth but my conviction that hammy is town kinda convinced me that the wagons were v/v and any analysis was gonna be marginal at best

    speaking of which, if you wanna call hammy and i w/w and accuse me of masterminding some grand scheme to get him derpcleared, that's your prerogative; in the meantime i'll be over here trying to figure out which deity i pissed off to get stripped of my ability to get townread, and how i can get back in their good graces
    DM Mixolydia#8907 on Discord with any suggestions/comments/complaints/unwarranted compliments (you'll need to friend request me first)
    [6:42 AM] Makaze: people unironically liking amy's themes is tilting

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