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Thread: Season 8, Finale! Secure Championship Procedure [The Mafia Championship]

  1. ISO #51
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#38)
    It's hard to wait for this game to be started. Wiml talked about doing meta research on everyone, for once I believe that's kind of a waste of time, because if there's any game players will spice their meta to be difficult to catch as wolves it's this one. Wolves knows who they need to be read as town by to make it through, and how to accomplish that. Pocketing isn't to sugar someone, it's to make sure they think one wouldn't do a certain play as wolf.

    My goal this game is to be as obviously town as humanly possible, and play actively anti-wolf, even though work will keep me from thread at times. And well, I planned to go back to my bussing meta since pretty much no one here is familiar with it, but I'll still try to vote wolves >:3 And of course, to ensure that everyone has a good time.

    Anyway, here's my current thoughts on all the players, based on nothing but gut and memory.

    Alexa

    A high poster, and one I haven't seen wolf in real time. I think last time we played was Pokémon Light earlier this year where I struggled to stop tinfoiling her based on her town read on Illario and she struggled to stop tinfoiling me based on my cop cover. I've found her as town in a few occasions based on her emotional outbursts but I honestly hope nothing pushes her this hard here since… Well, I think those pushes have been unfounded and cruel and unfair.

    Boquise

    Tbh tbh. We played the same light game Alexa was in and I couldn't read him until he claimed cop, and he couldn't read me even when I dropped cop cover. So, eh, I'm probably not going to focus on him too much in the beginning.

    Gorf

    I found him early in SF2 from spec chat, but I don't remember why. Here's hoping I can find him again.

    Considering he's one of the few who got misyeeted in semis, I believe he's a target for wolves this game if he's towning. I'll try to keep that in mind.

    His cat is cute though.

    Holyflare

    I was kinda surprised by how well I read him d1 in sf3, and I acknowledge that me not wolf reading him from spec chat was based on how salty I knew I was gonna be if he actually flipped wolf.

    Then he flipped wolf. And I wasn't salty. I have an idea on how to read him but tbh reading through Levi's, Vans and Justin's thoughts on his wolf game will be more accurate than anything I could provide right now.

    Hornet

    We… have played? A little mash, a little turbo, but I don't have a firm grip of him actually.

    Actually, he was also in the said Pokémon Light (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30378 seriously 5 of us played that game lol).

    I remember Hornet being obv!town during his last EoD but it was too late to save him. Probably a good idea to put some pressure here early on.

    Katze

    I have no idea (: similar to JC. Mostly mashes.

    JohnCarter

    Hmm we haven't played much and I tend to mix him up with SR so… Well, it's gonna be hype to read someone without meta knowledge!

    Pilica

    I'm very hyped to play with Pilica! I also can't trust my early reads on him for shiz. Or spew, for that matter. But spec chat will tunnel them so maybe I'll just join in on that ^^

    Soneji

    Time to see if I can manage to interact with this boi in real time!

    Thunal33

    I… Actually don't remember playing with Thunal much outside of mashes and turbos. I know she's not afraid to bus but that's pretty much it.

    TSF

    Pocketed me during SF3 without really doing anything. He did a few minor things that pinged me, but I ignored that for ??? Reasons. At least I have something to look for now, but I wouldn't say I have confidence in reading him.

    Vandyfan402

    Very much looking forward to playing with this fella. Played with him in pre-champs and a few games in video. I honestly don't know what to expect from him here but it's gonna be hype to find out!

    Vanity.

    Well maybe I can find her. I have a few ways to do so, even though her is huge. I think she might be the one fearing me the most if she's wolfing.

    Wiml

    In all honesty, I think I've seen Wiml obv!town enough times now to find him wolfing. I just hope he's town and lives long enough to do his magic.
    that better happen tbh. if you and wiml are village then this is an easy victory tbh. i would say that this just looks like busywork (wrt what's in the spoiler) but it's nai busywork at the end of the day, and i know about the slank cover you've already laid down.

  2. ISO #52
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Wiml did you plan out two different mech posts depending on your rand or just the one?

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    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that

  4. ISO #54
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    I have an idea of what I want to do for d1, its not really that I don't want to tell you because I think it won't work, but its more that the idea is like "try to catch wolves" but like
    in a tone that isn't me being an asshole in answering your questions, because that's not really what I'm trying to do

    I don't really have much faith that we'll get a wolf d1 but I think if there's ever a town that's going to do it, its this one, so its slightly more than usual

    the truth, to most of us, seems like the truth
    one of us (probably more) will make good cases on the wolves for the right reasons today, and we need to find that truth inbetween all of the meme posts and the finals tryhardness

  5. ISO #55
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#45)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#34)
    okay, so my basic evaluation of the bucket is essentially that it is only really as effective as the poe that the village comes up with.

    the poe doesn't necessarily change with the pr's being outed, since they're already incapable of being misdefenestrated anyways depending on the context. sure, fakeclaims can occur if the bucket doesn't occur, but at this level we should be more than capable of being able to evaluating claims as we get to them.

    sf3 is basically a classic example of the wolves being able to stay out of the poe and being able to win as a result. if sf3 isn't a showcase of how the bucket isn't infallible, i don't know what is. and it's not an anomaly. the setup being different doesn't change that game, and even though that village had numerous problems, it was more of a wolf win than a village loss.

    there are some ideas i'm open to. if a pr ever needs to out for whatever reason (i.e. eod shenanigans or what have you) then i do think at that point, all of the pr's should out. i think it just makes mechanical sense to do so. i also said this in sf3, but i'm also down for the idea of the vig and md claiming blanket pr's, and the doc hiding. i do like variation in these games so they don't homogenize, but i also think it's a valid strategy and it forces to the wolves to make a choice between who they roleblock, and if they even kill within the pr claims.

    also something about less nka with bucket but i want to move on to realtime posts instead of speculating mech. you can talk about how valuable nka actually is but i'm not here to debate that.
    vanity be honest did you plan out a pro-bucket post if you randed V and an anti-bucket post if you randed W

    if you say yes i'll turn a blind eye but i'm kinda just waiting for the inevitable bucketing and i don't think you're gonna stop me tbh
    no. that post is alignment agnostic for me. that was my stance on the bucket immediately upon the conclusion of sf3 and i was going to open with being anti-bucket regardless of my alignment. that post really doesn't change in the timeline where i actually am a wolf this game.

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    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#34)
    okay, so my basic evaluation of the bucket is essentially that it is only really as effective as the poe that the village comes up with.

    the poe doesn't necessarily change with the pr's being outed, since they're already incapable of being misdefenestrated anyways depending on the context. sure, fakeclaims can occur if the bucket doesn't occur, but at this level we should be more than capable of being able to evaluating claims as we get to them.

    sf3 is basically a classic example of the wolves being able to stay out of the poe and being able to win as a result. if sf3 isn't a showcase of how the bucket isn't infallible, i don't know what is. and it's not an anomaly. the setup being different doesn't change that game, and even though that village had numerous problems, it was more of a wolf win than a village loss.

    there are some ideas i'm open to. if a pr ever needs to out for whatever reason (i.e. eod shenanigans or what have you) then i do think at that point, all of the pr's should out. i think it just makes mechanical sense to do so. i also said this in sf3, but i'm also down for the idea of the vig and md claiming blanket pr's, and the doc hiding. i do like variation in these games so they don't homogenize, but i also think it's a valid strategy and it forces to the wolves to make a choice between who they roleblock, and if they even kill within the pr claims.

    also something about less nka with bucket but i want to move on to realtime posts instead of speculating mech. you can talk about how valuable nka actually is but i'm not here to debate that.
    Yeah I agree Van, an effective POE is going to be essential. SF3 certainly seemed to be that, though also an element of 'perhaps entered the POE at points, just was never put in the order needed to win the game'. A lot of which due to the swag nature of the wolves, a lot because I think the early game really didn't help villagers identify other villagers to bring into late-game.

  7. ISO #57
    GOAT Tier alexa's Avatar
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    i would like to make an important announcement. this announcement will be the key to solving my alignment, and thus forth solving the game. no greater and more significant announcement will be said on this day one. please, prepare yourselves for this revelation.

    i'm gay

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    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    @Wisdom i am pretty sure i did town read you and defended you when you dropped cop cover. At least during the latter parts of the game

  9. ISO #59
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#57)
    i would like to make an important announcement. this announcement will be the key to solving my alignment, and thus forth solving the game. no greater and more significant announcement will be said on this day one. please, prepare yourselves for this revelation.

    i'm gay
    so true

    also same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#38)
    It's hard to wait for this game to be started. Wiml talked about doing meta research on everyone, for once I believe that's kind of a waste of time, because if there's any game players will spice their meta to be difficult to catch as wolves it's this one. Wolves knows who they need to be read as town by to make it through, and how to accomplish that. Pocketing isn't to sugar someone, it's to make sure they think one wouldn't do a certain play as wolf.

    My goal this game is to be as obviously town as humanly possible, and play actively anti-wolf, even though work will keep me from thread at times. And well, I planned to go back to my bussing meta since pretty much no one here is familiar with it, but I'll still try to vote wolves >:3 And of course, to ensure that everyone has a good time.

    Anyway, here's my current thoughts on all the players, based on nothing but gut and memory.

    Alexa

    A high poster, and one I haven't seen wolf in real time. I think last time we played was Pokémon Light earlier this year where I struggled to stop tinfoiling her based on her town read on Illario and she struggled to stop tinfoiling me based on my cop cover. I've found her as town in a few occasions based on her emotional outbursts but I honestly hope nothing pushes her this hard here since… Well, I think those pushes have been unfounded and cruel and unfair.

    Boquise

    Tbh tbh. We played the same light game Alexa was in and I couldn't read him until he claimed cop, and he couldn't read me even when I dropped cop cover. So, eh, I'm probably not going to focus on him too much in the beginning.

    Gorf

    I found him early in SF2 from spec chat, but I don't remember why. Here's hoping I can find him again.

    Considering he's one of the few who got misyeeted in semis, I believe he's a target for wolves this game if he's towning. I'll try to keep that in mind.

    His cat is cute though.

    Holyflare

    I was kinda surprised by how well I read him d1 in sf3, and I acknowledge that me not wolf reading him from spec chat was based on how salty I knew I was gonna be if he actually flipped wolf.

    Then he flipped wolf. And I wasn't salty. I have an idea on how to read him but tbh reading through Levi's, Vans and Justin's thoughts on his wolf game will be more accurate than anything I could provide right now.

    Hornet

    We… have played? A little mash, a little turbo, but I don't have a firm grip of him actually.

    Actually, he was also in the said Pokémon Light (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30378 seriously 5 of us played that game lol).

    I remember Hornet being obv!town during his last EoD but it was too late to save him. Probably a good idea to put some pressure here early on.

    Katze

    I have no idea (: similar to JC. Mostly mashes.

    JohnCarter

    Hmm we haven't played much and I tend to mix him up with SR so… Well, it's gonna be hype to read someone without meta knowledge!

    Pilica

    I'm very hyped to play with Pilica! I also can't trust my early reads on him for shiz. Or spew, for that matter. But spec chat will tunnel them so maybe I'll just join in on that ^^

    Soneji

    Time to see if I can manage to interact with this boi in real time!

    Thunal33

    I… Actually don't remember playing with Thunal much outside of mashes and turbos. I know she's not afraid to bus but that's pretty much it.

    TSF

    Pocketed me during SF3 without really doing anything. He did a few minor things that pinged me, but I ignored that for ??? Reasons. At least I have something to look for now, but I wouldn't say I have confidence in reading him.

    Vandyfan402

    Very much looking forward to playing with this fella. Played with him in pre-champs and a few games in video. I honestly don't know what to expect from him here but it's gonna be hype to find out!

    Vanity.

    Well maybe I can find her. I have a few ways to do so, even though her is huge. I think she might be the one fearing me the most if she's wolfing.

    Wiml

    In all honesty, I think I've seen Wiml obv!town enough times now to find him wolfing. I just hope he's town and lives long enough to do his magic.
    that better happen tbh. if you and wiml are village then this is an easy victory tbh. i would say that this just looks like busywork (wrt what's in the spoiler) but it's nai busywork at the end of the day, and i know about the slank cover you've already laid down.
    I know you tend to doubt yourself so I find it a bit odd that you're calling the game an easy victory if Wiml and Wisdom are both town. I feel like if you were town you'd doubt your ability to win a little bit more

  11. ISO #61
    Soul Reader Vandyfan402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#57)
    i would like to make an important announcement. this announcement will be the key to solving my alignment, and thus forth solving the game. no greater and more significant announcement will be said on this day one. please, prepare yourselves for this revelation.

    i'm gay
    This is gonna be "I'm gay isn't it"

  12. ISO #62
    Soul Reader Vandyfan402's Avatar
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    Nailed it

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    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    I am almost positive that vandyfan is town
    by that I mean he's slightly town; he's as town as I, personally, could possibly think someone is at this stage of the game
    but I just believe that he wants the bucket today because he got $%#!ed by it

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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#45)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#34)
    okay, so my basic evaluation of the bucket is essentially that it is only really as effective as the poe that the village comes up with.

    the poe doesn't necessarily change with the pr's being outed, since they're already incapable of being misdefenestrated anyways depending on the context. sure, fakeclaims can occur if the bucket doesn't occur, but at this level we should be more than capable of being able to evaluating claims as we get to them.

    sf3 is basically a classic example of the wolves being able to stay out of the poe and being able to win as a result. if sf3 isn't a showcase of how the bucket isn't infallible, i don't know what is. and it's not an anomaly. the setup being different doesn't change that game, and even though that village had numerous problems, it was more of a wolf win than a village loss.

    there are some ideas i'm open to. if a pr ever needs to out for whatever reason (i.e. eod shenanigans or what have you) then i do think at that point, all of the pr's should out. i think it just makes mechanical sense to do so. i also said this in sf3, but i'm also down for the idea of the vig and md claiming blanket pr's, and the doc hiding. i do like variation in these games so they don't homogenize, but i also think it's a valid strategy and it forces to the wolves to make a choice between who they roleblock, and if they even kill within the pr claims.

    also something about less nka with bucket but i want to move on to realtime posts instead of speculating mech. you can talk about how valuable nka actually is but i'm not here to debate that.
    vanity be honest did you plan out a pro-bucket post if you randed V and an anti-bucket post if you randed W

    if you say yes i'll turn a blind eye but i'm kinda just waiting for the inevitable bucketing and i don't think you're gonna stop me tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#52)
    Wiml did you plan out two different mech posts depending on your rand or just the one?

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    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#54)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    I have an idea of what I want to do for d1, its not really that I don't want to tell you because I think it won't work, but its more that the idea is like "try to catch wolves" but like
    in a tone that isn't me being an asshole in answering your questions, because that's not really what I'm trying to do

    I don't really have much faith that we'll get a wolf d1 but I think if there's ever a town that's going to do it, its this one, so its slightly more than usual

    the truth, to most of us, seems like the truth
    one of us (probably more) will make good cases on the wolves for the right reasons today, and we need to find that truth inbetween all of the meme posts and the finals tryhardness
    Right, so keep it simple. No need to clarify lack of asshole-y ness, heh.

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    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    man that pic got big

    count that as my first wall post and we will be fine tbh

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    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#52)
    Wiml did you plan out two different mech posts depending on your rand or just the one?
    Yes and no.

    This was 100% coming out if I randed town regardless of rand.

    My wolf strategy was a lot more nuanced and depended heavily on teammates rand because I think I could exploit bucket with certain teammates? Will explain later when the thread is less busy because I'm not even keeping up with reading rn.

    Also you were right to be worried about me having something up my sleeve if I rabded wolf lmao. I was grinning during some of our pregame chats.

  18. ISO #68
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#43)
    Why the actual $%#! did I start reading Wisdom's hydration wall like it was gonna help me solve her
    I wrote it post rand so it's probably not impossible

    ----------

    I shouldn't have started reading. Now Van and JC both sounds sus. Ugh my sleep

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    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Thunal and Vandy are villagery aorn

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    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#38)
    It's hard to wait for this game to be started. Wiml talked about doing meta research on everyone, for once I believe that's kind of a waste of time, because if there's any game players will spice their meta to be difficult to catch as wolves it's this one. Wolves knows who they need to be read as town by to make it through, and how to accomplish that. Pocketing isn't to sugar someone, it's to make sure they think one wouldn't do a certain play as wolf.

    My goal this game is to be as obviously town as humanly possible, and play actively anti-wolf, even though work will keep me from thread at times. And well, I planned to go back to my bussing meta since pretty much no one here is familiar with it, but I'll still try to vote wolves >:3 And of course, to ensure that everyone has a good time.

    Anyway, here's my current thoughts on all the players, based on nothing but gut and memory.

    Alexa

    A high poster, and one I haven't seen wolf in real time. I think last time we played was Pokémon Light earlier this year where I struggled to stop tinfoiling her based on her town read on Illario and she struggled to stop tinfoiling me based on my cop cover. I've found her as town in a few occasions based on her emotional outbursts but I honestly hope nothing pushes her this hard here since… Well, I think those pushes have been unfounded and cruel and unfair.

    Boquise

    Tbh tbh. We played the same light game Alexa was in and I couldn't read him until he claimed cop, and he couldn't read me even when I dropped cop cover. So, eh, I'm probably not going to focus on him too much in the beginning.

    Gorf

    I found him early in SF2 from spec chat, but I don't remember why. Here's hoping I can find him again.

    Considering he's one of the few who got misyeeted in semis, I believe he's a target for wolves this game if he's towning. I'll try to keep that in mind.

    His cat is cute though.

    Holyflare

    I was kinda surprised by how well I read him d1 in sf3, and I acknowledge that me not wolf reading him from spec chat was based on how salty I knew I was gonna be if he actually flipped wolf.

    Then he flipped wolf. And I wasn't salty. I have an idea on how to read him but tbh reading through Levi's, Vans and Justin's thoughts on his wolf game will be more accurate than anything I could provide right now.

    Hornet

    We… have played? A little mash, a little turbo, but I don't have a firm grip of him actually.

    Actually, he was also in the said Pokémon Light (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30378 seriously 5 of us played that game lol).

    I remember Hornet being obv!town during his last EoD but it was too late to save him. Probably a good idea to put some pressure here early on.

    Katze

    I have no idea (: similar to JC. Mostly mashes.

    JohnCarter

    Hmm we haven't played much and I tend to mix him up with SR so… Well, it's gonna be hype to read someone without meta knowledge!

    Pilica

    I'm very hyped to play with Pilica! I also can't trust my early reads on him for shiz. Or spew, for that matter. But spec chat will tunnel them so maybe I'll just join in on that ^^

    Soneji

    Time to see if I can manage to interact with this boi in real time!

    Thunal33

    I… Actually don't remember playing with Thunal much outside of mashes and turbos. I know she's not afraid to bus but that's pretty much it.

    TSF

    Pocketed me during SF3 without really doing anything. He did a few minor things that pinged me, but I ignored that for ??? Reasons. At least I have something to look for now, but I wouldn't say I have confidence in reading him.

    Vandyfan402

    Very much looking forward to playing with this fella. Played with him in pre-champs and a few games in video. I honestly don't know what to expect from him here but it's gonna be hype to find out!

    Vanity.

    Well maybe I can find her. I have a few ways to do so, even though her is huge. I think she might be the one fearing me the most if she's wolfing.

    Wiml

    In all honesty, I think I've seen Wiml obv!town enough times now to find him wolfing. I just hope he's town and lives long enough to do his magic.
    that better happen tbh. if you and wiml are village then this is an easy victory tbh. i would say that this just looks like busywork (wrt what's in the spoiler) but it's nai busywork at the end of the day, and i know about the slank cover you've already laid down.
    I know you tend to doubt yourself so I find it a bit odd that you're calling the game an easy victory if Wiml and Wisdom are both town. I feel like if you were town you'd doubt your ability to win a little bit more
    ...really? wisdom, wiml, and i are strong enough villagers that if we can create a village core amongst ourselves that i really don't think the game is that hard.

    i'm generally unconfident in my capabilities as a villager, but not to the extent where i don't think i can't village effectively at all. in fact i think a basic overview of the games i've played this year don't showcase at all that i'm a bad village that can't play well, so this accusation seems strange.

    i'm sure it's a personality based read but it's a really freaking weird one.

  21. ISO #71
    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    tbh i didn't read SF1/SF3 insanely closely but my main takeaway for why SF1 was a town win and SF3 wasn't is... SF3 town were unable to cohesively play together? like, the entire wolfteam was PoEd D1 in SF3 basically but they let themselves get to XyLo after misyeeting multiple obvious villagers (still cant believe SJ got executed tbfh)

    the secret sauce this game is that i'm here to prevent any superjack yeets

    and superjack isnt here to get yeeted

  22. ISO #72
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.

  23. ISO #73
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#68)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#43)
    Why the actual $%#! did I start reading Wisdom's hydration wall like it was gonna help me solve her
    I wrote it post rand so it's probably not impossible

    ----------

    I shouldn't have started reading. Now Van and JC both sounds sus. Ugh my sleep
    ideally when you wake up pls say why @Wisdom

  24. ISO #74
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    people getting reads on first page d1 like



    yeh i guess this is the finale tbh

  25. ISO #75
    GOAT Tier alexa's Avatar
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    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town

  26. ISO #76
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#73)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#68)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#43)
    Why the actual $%#! did I start reading Wisdom's hydration wall like it was gonna help me solve her
    I wrote it post rand so it's probably not impossible

    ----------

    I shouldn't have started reading. Now Van and JC both sounds sus. Ugh my sleep
    ideally when you wake up pls say why @Wisdom
    I think its likely that Wisdom posts several more times before actually going to bed
    (this is humorous cover to give my wolfmate an opportunity to leave in a funny way)

  27. ISO #77
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#58)
    @Wisdom i am pretty sure i did town read you and defended you when you dropped cop cover. At least during the latter parts of the game
    You tell yourself that ^^ I remember screaming at you to stop sussing me and begging you to help me explain that cop cover isn't wolfy!

  28. ISO #78
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    i have my own method for how to read vandy, but can people explain why they already think he's villagery? because... maybe i'll leveling myself too much or missing something but his posts so far seem nai even without meta.

    yes, posts in general in this phase are nai, don't be too pedantic.

  29. ISO #79
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#74)
    people getting reads on first page d1 like



    yeh i guess this is the finale tbh
    I despise early reads
    there's a fairly high chance I don't change my vandy ready today

  30. ISO #80
    Soul Reader Vandyfan402's Avatar
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    Wait... Wisdom WROTE that? I assumed it was copied from some health website

  31. ISO #81
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.

  32. ISO #82
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.
    wouldn't*
    wasting posts like i am living rich tbh

  33. ISO #83
    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#75)
    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town
    first real read of the game

    this post is more hedgey than

    uhh

    something really hedgey

  34. ISO #84
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#70)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#38)
    It's hard to wait for this game to be started. Wiml talked about doing meta research on everyone, for once I believe that's kind of a waste of time, because if there's any game players will spice their meta to be difficult to catch as wolves it's this one. Wolves knows who they need to be read as town by to make it through, and how to accomplish that. Pocketing isn't to sugar someone, it's to make sure they think one wouldn't do a certain play as wolf.

    My goal this game is to be as obviously town as humanly possible, and play actively anti-wolf, even though work will keep me from thread at times. And well, I planned to go back to my bussing meta since pretty much no one here is familiar with it, but I'll still try to vote wolves >:3 And of course, to ensure that everyone has a good time.

    Anyway, here's my current thoughts on all the players, based on nothing but gut and memory.

    Alexa

    A high poster, and one I haven't seen wolf in real time. I think last time we played was Pokémon Light earlier this year where I struggled to stop tinfoiling her based on her town read on Illario and she struggled to stop tinfoiling me based on my cop cover. I've found her as town in a few occasions based on her emotional outbursts but I honestly hope nothing pushes her this hard here since… Well, I think those pushes have been unfounded and cruel and unfair.

    Boquise

    Tbh tbh. We played the same light game Alexa was in and I couldn't read him until he claimed cop, and he couldn't read me even when I dropped cop cover. So, eh, I'm probably not going to focus on him too much in the beginning.

    Gorf

    I found him early in SF2 from spec chat, but I don't remember why. Here's hoping I can find him again.

    Considering he's one of the few who got misyeeted in semis, I believe he's a target for wolves this game if he's towning. I'll try to keep that in mind.

    His cat is cute though.

    Holyflare

    I was kinda surprised by how well I read him d1 in sf3, and I acknowledge that me not wolf reading him from spec chat was based on how salty I knew I was gonna be if he actually flipped wolf.

    Then he flipped wolf. And I wasn't salty. I have an idea on how to read him but tbh reading through Levi's, Vans and Justin's thoughts on his wolf game will be more accurate than anything I could provide right now.

    Hornet

    We… have played? A little mash, a little turbo, but I don't have a firm grip of him actually.

    Actually, he was also in the said Pokémon Light (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30378 seriously 5 of us played that game lol).

    I remember Hornet being obv!town during his last EoD but it was too late to save him. Probably a good idea to put some pressure here early on.

    Katze

    I have no idea (: similar to JC. Mostly mashes.

    JohnCarter

    Hmm we haven't played much and I tend to mix him up with SR so… Well, it's gonna be hype to read someone without meta knowledge!

    Pilica

    I'm very hyped to play with Pilica! I also can't trust my early reads on him for shiz. Or spew, for that matter. But spec chat will tunnel them so maybe I'll just join in on that ^^

    Soneji

    Time to see if I can manage to interact with this boi in real time!

    Thunal33

    I… Actually don't remember playing with Thunal much outside of mashes and turbos. I know she's not afraid to bus but that's pretty much it.

    TSF

    Pocketed me during SF3 without really doing anything. He did a few minor things that pinged me, but I ignored that for ??? Reasons. At least I have something to look for now, but I wouldn't say I have confidence in reading him.

    Vandyfan402

    Very much looking forward to playing with this fella. Played with him in pre-champs and a few games in video. I honestly don't know what to expect from him here but it's gonna be hype to find out!

    Vanity.

    Well maybe I can find her. I have a few ways to do so, even though her is huge. I think she might be the one fearing me the most if she's wolfing.

    Wiml

    In all honesty, I think I've seen Wiml obv!town enough times now to find him wolfing. I just hope he's town and lives long enough to do his magic.
    that better happen tbh. if you and wiml are village then this is an easy victory tbh. i would say that this just looks like busywork (wrt what's in the spoiler) but it's nai busywork at the end of the day, and i know about the slank cover you've already laid down.
    I know you tend to doubt yourself so I find it a bit odd that you're calling the game an easy victory if Wiml and Wisdom are both town. I feel like if you were town you'd doubt your ability to win a little bit more
    ...really? wisdom, wiml, and i are strong enough villagers that if we can create a village core amongst ourselves that i really don't think the game is that hard.

    i'm generally unconfident in my capabilities as a villager, but not to the extent where i don't think i can't village effectively at all. in fact i think a basic overview of the games i've played this year don't showcase at all that i'm a bad village that can't play well, so this accusation seems strange.

    i'm sure it's a personality based read but it's a really freaking weird one.
    I know you have high opinions of both of their play but I feel like you'd be a little less confident that you were getting an easy victory. I got the impression you had very high opinions of the playerlist as a whole, not just Wiml and Wisdom, and even though you were town with Wisdom in SF3 the game was still really hard so I'd expect you to be a little more wary here.

  35. ISO #85
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#63)
    I am almost positive that vandyfan is town
    by that I mean he's slightly town; he's as town as I, personally, could possibly think someone is at this stage of the game
    but I just believe that he wants the bucket today because he got $%#!ed by it
    Fair take.

    I think he won't be findable in a definitive way until mid d1, for reasons that can be discussed when we come to that point.


    ----

    Thunal is acting how i'd expect for them as a villager. Albeit she can clearly fake tone quite well, i'm content with the relaxed nature of their entrance for now. Specifically important for Thun given she was hesitant at a wolf rand. Will see how it develops.

  36. ISO #86
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#58)
    @Wisdom i am pretty sure i did town read you and defended you when you dropped cop cover. At least during the latter parts of the game
    You tell yourself that ^^ I remember screaming at you to stop sussing me and begging you to help me explain that cop cover isn't wolfy!
    i thought that was to illario

    man
    whats it called
    subjektivt minne?

  37. ISO #87
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#83)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#75)
    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town
    first real read of the game

    this post is more hedgey than

    uhh

    something really hedgey
    its also post #75
    you expect them to have a not-hedgy read on vandy like a tryhard loser at this point?

  38. ISO #88
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#79)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#74)
    people getting reads on first page d1 like



    yeh i guess this is the finale tbh
    I despise early reads
    there's a fairly high chance I don't change my vandy ready today
    cool tbh

  39. ISO #89
    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#41)
    I have little to say on bucket, don't really mind on process taken there.

    I was contemplating earlier what a good ice-breaker for us would be. I really liked the one Katze used in SF2 - what people learnt from their previous town/wolf games. So let's build on that.

    What do you think we can do - based on what you've learnt from the the semi-finals 1, 2 & 3- to ensure we have a strong early, mid, and late game for town?

    SF1 certainly had a very strong D1, what was the secret sauce for that?
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.
    If I say my one goal in a game is for a threadstate to be good and I don't commit to that later in the game then I'm a wolf for sure lol.

  40. ISO #90
    Soul Reader Vandyfan402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#83)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#75)
    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town
    first real read of the game

    this post is more hedgey than

    uhh

    something really hedgey
    Wrigley Field..

  41. ISO #91
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    ##Vote vanity.
    ##Vote alexa

    I WAS SO RELIEVED.

  42. ISO #92
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#82)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.
    wouldn't*
    wasting posts like i am living rich tbh
    It's a very thin "I think Wiml is slightly more likely to think of this as town and emphasize it" read.

  43. ISO #93
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#89)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#53)
    SF3

    We are not having a repeat of that game here

    If I have one goal this game it's making sure the thread never gets like that
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.
    If I say my one goal in a game is for a threadstate to be good and I don't commit to that later in the game then I'm a wolf for sure lol.
    yea but it is kinda premature lol

  44. ISO #94
    Soul Reader Vandyfan402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#87)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#83)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#75)
    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town
    first real read of the game

    this post is more hedgey than

    uhh

    something really hedgey
    its also post #75
    you expect them to have a not-hedgy read on vandy like a tryhard loser at this point?
    I townread this post more than I townread the actual read Greg gave on me

  45. ISO #95
    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#87)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#83)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#75)
    i think the desire for bucket gives Vandy some light town points, but I also feel like it's possible that Vandy had some sort of discussion/pre-assumption that bucket would happen and therefore instantly came in with that mindset for the "towncred" if he's a wolf so i wouldn't put him beyond light town
    first real read of the game

    this post is more hedgey than

    uhh

    something really hedgey
    its also post #75
    you expect them to have a not-hedgy read on vandy like a tryhard loser at this point?
    it being post #75 is why i don't hold this read at a very high value

    "haha this is villagery but he might know people will townread this so should i even read into it? 😳", even this early into the phase, is notable imo tbh

  46. ISO #96
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#92)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#82)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#81)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#72)
    I think this is slightly >rand town for Wiml. I think he's someone who wouldn't want the thread to be like that as a wolf but he'd have more stake in making sure the threadstate is good as town.
    why would scum!Wiml write this?
    like, just saying "we should have a good thread state" doesnt mean that someone is actively working for that direction.
    wouldn't*
    wasting posts like i am living rich tbh
    It's a very thin "I think Wiml is slightly more likely to think of this as town and emphasize it" read.
    yes but why wouldn't scum!wiml write it?

  47. ISO #97
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    i am going to read these posts more carefully when i have slept and stuff tbh

  48. ISO #98
    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#34)
    okay, so my basic evaluation of the bucket is essentially that it is only really as effective as the poe that the village comes up with.

    the poe doesn't necessarily change with the pr's being outed, since they're already incapable of being misdefenestrated anyways depending on the context. sure, fakeclaims can occur if the bucket doesn't occur, but at this level we should be more than capable of being able to evaluating claims as we get to them.

    sf3 is basically a classic example of the wolves being able to stay out of the poe and being able to win as a result. if sf3 isn't a showcase of how the bucket isn't infallible, i don't know what is. and it's not an anomaly. the setup being different doesn't change that game, and even though that village had numerous problems, it was more of a wolf win than a village loss.

    there are some ideas i'm open to. if a pr ever needs to out for whatever reason (i.e. eod shenanigans or what have you) then i do think at that point, all of the pr's should out. i think it just makes mechanical sense to do so. i also said this in sf3, but i'm also down for the idea of the vig and md claiming blanket pr's, and the doc hiding. i do like variation in these games so they don't homogenize, but i also think it's a valid strategy and it forces to the wolves to make a choice between who they roleblock, and if they even kill within the pr claims.

    also something about less nka with bucket but i want to move on to realtime posts instead of speculating mech. you can talk about how valuable nka actually is but i'm not here to debate that.
    Ftr both of these alt ideas are fine.

    I think SF3 was a case that can easily be avoided here though.

  49. ISO #99
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#84)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#70)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#51)
    that better happen tbh. if you and wiml are village then this is an easy victory tbh. i would say that this just looks like busywork (wrt what's in the spoiler) but it's nai busywork at the end of the day, and i know about the slank cover you've already laid down.
    I know you tend to doubt yourself so I find it a bit odd that you're calling the game an easy victory if Wiml and Wisdom are both town. I feel like if you were town you'd doubt your ability to win a little bit more
    ...really? wisdom, wiml, and i are strong enough villagers that if we can create a village core amongst ourselves that i really don't think the game is that hard.

    i'm generally unconfident in my capabilities as a villager, but not to the extent where i don't think i can't village effectively at all. in fact i think a basic overview of the games i've played this year don't showcase at all that i'm a bad village that can't play well, so this accusation seems strange.

    i'm sure it's a personality based read but it's a really freaking weird one.
    I know you have high opinions of both of their play but I feel like you'd be a little less confident that you were getting an easy victory. I got the impression you had very high opinions of the playerlist as a whole, not just Wiml and Wisdom, and even though you were town with Wisdom in SF3 the game was still really hard so I'd expect you to be a little more wary here.
    to be clear, both of their slots are some of the slots i have more ways to read than a lot of other people in this player list. i mean, it's a champs finale playerlist, most of us are going to be good wolves and i think all of us have at least some receipts when it comes to wolfing. that doesn't mean i think most of us unreadable, because i don't. i think even ignoring how good some of us are at wolfing, all of us are readable on some level. but i have especially high confidence that if i can correctly read players like wiml and wisdom, especially if they are villagers, that this game should be pretty simple following those reads if i can work with them. generally i have positive results when i have villaged with both of them in the past.

  50. ISO #100
    GOAT Tier alexa's Avatar
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    imagine having reads that aren't hedgy tbh

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