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Thread: Season 8, Finale! Secure Championship Procedure [The Mafia Championship] Day 7
Day 7 

  1. ISO #4951
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Above all else, I don't want to make someone's game unpleasant and it kinda hurts tbat he said I ruined roundbox's experience so yeah. Here I am.

  2. ISO #4952
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4945)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4937)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4927)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4903)
    Lmfao keep grasping homie

    I never assumed you were pushing me for my Soneji flip. You actively shat on me yesterDay after I turned my read on him. Don’t try hiding behind your walls you $%#!ed up by pinging me in that spoiler
    I can't comprehend much of this either

    I don't think I'm a Wall-posting Wally this game
    so I definitely don't think I'm hiding behind walls, or anything

    I never shat on you yesterday, my post where I was like "what the hell, man" was mostly to the universe and not to you, maybe it didn't come across that way
    I said in my response to you, I think, something about being annoyed at myself for not seeing it at first
    I swear to god you said something along the lines of “what the hell, you went through all that time to tell me that Soneji was an easy read, made me read his meta and now you scumread him? Cmon man,” as if you say that I wasted your time indulging in a meta townread on Soneji when I’m just gonna turn around and scumread him. I’m drunk rn so I’m not gonna dig for this but if you’re gonna hold onto this I will absolutely show you in the morning and cite exactly what I’m talking about
    I am talking about that moment, yes
    I was not calling you a wolf for that
    but I see now that you and I weren't on the same page, and I realize that you weren't assuming something about me calling you a wolf today, and it was actually me who was doing the assuming on that end
    albeit you were assuming I was calling you a wolf yesterday when I wasn't

    anyways
    its not something I care about anymore and I only understood what exactly you meant as of this post
    Fuh sho

    I didn’t think you were calling me a wolf for that, I said you shat on me for turning around on Soneji. Like you gave me grief for it at the time. But perhaps that’s just the rhetoric difference like the whole “fire wall post” thing from early game.

  3. ISO #4953
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Alfredo is laying down on my lap but I wanna go to sleep but I’m not in a position to be able to do so and I’m drunk so I’m stuck

  4. ISO #4954
    GOAT Tier alexa's Avatar
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    @Hornet yes i will ping you after, it will probably be tomorrow through

    @Holyflare why don't you think it's pilica/TSF together? i feel like especially with that EOD their W/W equity skyrocketed, like the way pilica approached TSF that EOD felt performative and specifically to save him

  5. ISO #4955
    GOAT Tier alexa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4953)
    Alfredo is laying down on my lap but I wanna go to sleep but I’m not in a position to be able to do so and I’m drunk so I’m stuck
    i miss my cat so much

  6. ISO #4956
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4955)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4953)
    Alfredo is laying down on my lap but I wanna go to sleep but I’m not in a position to be able to do so and I’m drunk so I’m stuck
    i miss my cat so much
    They are truly special

  7. ISO #4957
    GOAT Tier katze's Avatar
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    my boys asleep on my desk



    picture not related, i just want to have 4 arms and pet 4 cats at once tbh

    im heading off early i didnt sleep well enough and i feel an urge to vote one of my top townreads out of paranoia so im not sure if i should be here

    good luck with alfredo gorf

  8. ISO #4958
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4954)
    @Hornet yes i will ping you after, it will probably be tomorrow through

    @Holyflare why don't you think it's pilica/TSF together? i feel like especially with that EOD their W/W equity skyrocketed, like the way pilica approached TSF that EOD felt performative and specifically to save him
    Well I just wolfed with her and that's the only game I've played with her so that's the only experience I have to go on but I just don't think she makes those series of posts for a partner. Maybe if he's the rber at a super stretch? Just basing it off her interactions with me, she barely mentioned me, inconsistently interacted with me and tried to vote me off, or at least be on my wagon for credit eod.

    Possible she's w and tsf v or vice versa. I dunno. I've only briefly skimmed things to be fair and eod I didn't participate that nuch in so I'll give your post another read with fresh eyes when I wake up.

    Really gonna force myself off now. Night.

  9. ISO #4959
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    @katze I think the chances of HF, Hornet, me, you, wiml, Alexa all being villagers is very high. Thoughts?

    I think the notion that wolves must've been bussing when vandy had these 6 people voting him is incorrect. The next 3 people to vote vandy are gorf, boquise and thunal.

    In champs, I see wolves as more likely to soft-defend a partner D1. The 3 people that voted Vandy after it was guaranteed were the 3 people who were voting the counter-wagon to Vandy.

    I understand the idea that anything can happen. Though let's explore some scenarios.

    We know that:
    The only people off the Vandy wagon properly (EG wiml is off wagon, but was still pro vandy flip) when Gorf, boquise, thunal join, are Wisdom, Soneji, Vanity and TSF and Pilica.

    I'm going to assume that
    The 6 early voters are villagers [HF, hornet, JC, katze, alexa, wiml] for some scenarios:


    Scenario 1:
    [Gorf, Thunal, Boquise] contains 2 wolves. Both were voting TSF!v then both jumped on Vandy!w last minute. Do wolves really work in a block like this? I don't think so. I'm inclined to rule this world out.


    Scenario 2: What people are arguing - Pilica and TSF are wolves
    Wolves got caught the $%#! off the wolf Vandy wagon until... Pilica comes in.

    For this to be true, there would have been another wolf wagon in TSF. Because the only people off wagon once Gorf, Boq and Thunal jump on are EXACTLY AND ONLY TSF and Pilica (who is still 6 posting at this point).


    Scenario 3:
    [Gorf, Thunal, Boquise] contains 1 wolf, and jumped on Vandy last minute, after voting team mate TSF.


    Scenario 4:
    [Gorf, Thunal, boquise] contains 1 wolf who wanted to save Vandy by voting a villager TSF, and then jumped on Vandy last minute. Their teammate is Pilica.

  10. ISO #4960
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#4951)
    Above all else, I don't want to make someone's game unpleasant and it kinda hurts tbat he said I ruined roundbox's experience so yeah. Here I am.
    it was... rude, maybe even backbiting, of me to say such a thing
    I could probably explain this better in a way that would make you feel signficantly less bad;

    he often feels (and I will say he's statistically not wrong) that people listen to him less. He writes longer posts, he puts a lot of work into the game, and for whatever reason, I think people are like... less inclined to listen to him, and he has a harder time because of that.

    He felt like that happened to him both in quals where he got quickhammered when he was in a counterclaim battle, and in semis.

    And like I said, he did tunnel Carotte and was wrong, so at least some of this is on him and I know he knows that.

    There's also pressure (i'd say a lot of it is self-applied also) from people from our forum to do well since we have a good historical record and I know not advancing to the finals hurt his pride. He's a good enough player to do so, and I know there are probably literally hundreds of people who, if the die was cast slightly differently, would be here or in finals in another season.

    --------------------------------

    None of that is your fault. You play the game in a way that is fine. You haven't ruined my experience; I meant what I said yesterday, I am mad at no one but myself. I'm calmer today, and I hope to god I stay that way, and its not me using politesse when I say it wasn't you that set me off. The straw that broke the camel's back was me seeing that vanity had closed off to me, or at least it felt like that. I think the fact that she didn't answer my pings after that kind of... makes me feel bad for reasons. I could answer this post with a lot more words, but sincerely, it wasn't you.

    No one could ruin my experience here but me, and I mean that. If I die, assuming you are actually a villager, which I do think, its not your fault, or anyone elses. Its my fault, and conversely, credit goes to the wolves for all the $%#! that it would take for me to die here.

    I'm sorry that I said something like that.

  11. ISO #4961
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Some night time reading for someone: find in my iso where I said boq's switch to vandy looked performative and investigate context plz

  12. ISO #4962
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#4951)
    Above all else, I don't want to make someone's game unpleasant and it kinda hurts tbat he said I ruined roundbox's experience so yeah. Here I am.


    I love us after last year

  13. ISO #4963
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#1848)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1840)
    ##Vote Boquise

    rabbit moment. if you vote within your towncore, maybe you'll catch the deep wolf.

    but no like, pretty sure thunal/hornet/katze are just villagers. i'm worried i'm getting snowed somewhere within boq or gorf.
    I think he's been pretty opportunistic in his last few posts and his switch back to vandy looks like a cheap grab for minor credit of ultimately ending back on the wagon while simultaneously trying to erode his read on me/thunal.

    But vanity, what on earth are you trying to do here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#1778)
    Getting weird vibes. People subtly eroding town reads on me, making odd stances on tsf/vandy. No names specifically (boq last post really triggered it after vandy post having me as essentially his second biggest scum read somehow).

    Tsf plz make a reads list with a sentence on each

  14. ISO #4964
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#4963)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#1848)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1840)
    ##Vote Boquise

    rabbit moment. if you vote within your towncore, maybe you'll catch the deep wolf.

    but no like, pretty sure thunal/hornet/katze are just villagers. i'm worried i'm getting snowed somewhere within boq or gorf.
    I think he's been pretty opportunistic in his last few posts and his switch back to vandy looks like a cheap grab for minor credit of ultimately ending back on the wagon while simultaneously trying to erode his read on me/thunal.

    But vanity, what on earth are you trying to do here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#1778)
    Getting weird vibes. People subtly eroding town reads on me, making odd stances on tsf/vandy. No names specifically (boq last post really triggered it after vandy post having me as essentially his second biggest scum read somehow).

    Tsf plz make a reads list with a sentence on each
    Boq looks fine ignore me

  15. ISO #4965
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#3954)
    yeah i guess we should still just kill tsf

    if he flips v then i'm still suspecting within soneji/wiml, probably wiml more strongly tbh barring anything else happening.

    hornet and alexa are lock v or at least near that as far as i'm concerned. katze is pretty close based on close examination of her cases and wallposts.

    holyflare could be the omega bussing deepwolf but that should only be evaluated waaaaaay down the line. not any time soon, at minimum. just don't completely block out the possibility, hopefully we win before it gets to that point.

    i think thunal didn't have tmi on vandy. i think gorf probably didn't have tmi on vandy. i think boq is blanket villagery and thunal's research into didney worl corroborates boq's self-meta, and maybe boq is aware enough to do something like that but not as out of the blue as it occurred. i think pilica has been villagery and the sf3 wolves see it too.

    game is tough but that's just what i think. i probably won't be there to completely solve the game but i believe that all of yall are good enough to find the correct answer, even if i somehow faltered somewhere, which... i probably have.
    I think this is vanity's legacy post?
    I couldn't find something with all of the reads altogether before this and there's like 50+ posts after this one

    been ping-ponging back with d1 vote stuff and I figured I owed this to her. I also found out she was interacting with me more than I remembered, it was just that we never talked about the wagon thing, I think. Apologies, vanity.

    anyways, my interpretationg here is

    vanity/jc

    hornet
    alexa

    katze

    holyflare

    thunal
    gorf
    boq
    pilica

    scumline
    soneji
    wiml

    sunfan

    a few notes:
    had wiml/sunfan never w/w
    I think this might not be where she ended on Wiml but I wasn't combing the posts very closely looking for it
    poe was wiml/soneji even if I died and flipped v

  16. ISO #4966
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#4755)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4458)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4438)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#4306)
    is it normal for Soneji to just ignore half of the players in his ISO?
    That’s part of what I saw that was shockingly different from his sf2 D2 and this D2: he seems to not have that townie instinct to solve the game holistically and has his focuses set on very specific things that serve to directly benefit his game
    i have indeed missed him digging up a big case tbh


    also i found a Soneji post I disliked smh tbh >:
    @Boquise what was the Soneji post you disliked?
    It's... in my ISO. Like
    Why does no one read my longer solvy posts?

  17. ISO #4967
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Good morning tbh

    I have rejected sleep and chores because I want to be on top of the game and fully caught up, which is probably the reason why I don't really know where to start in my approach of this game tbh

    Still hyped to play and got more excited when the game wasn't as locked as I thought (even tho I still feel solid about TSF and Pilica aorn. But I need to find a sort of healthy balance lol

  18. ISO #4968
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4732)
    also people were saying before that Pilica having Hornet low in her list was villagery which is just completely $%#!ing wrong considering Vandy, like the wolfteam is clearly just unaware that hornet isn't pushable, and also i feel like wolves' view of the gamestate can differ a lot from villagers often
    Yes I have walked back on this tbh

  19. ISO #4969
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4740)
    JC
    alexa

    HolyFlare
    Hornet
    Gorf

    Thunal
    katze
    Wiml
    Boq

    Pilica
    TSF

    i'm here RN, third tier unordered, i'm feeling confident with gorf as a core villager after generally reviewing his approach to Soneji, i just don't think it comes from him as wolf and i feel better about it after wolfing with him as well
    What hesitates me with Gorf is that he could be co-captaining HolyFlare so the thread state feels locked into TSF and Soneji, if TSF is also town

  20. ISO #4970
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    I'm going through the posts following Hornet/vandy interaction (you know the one)
    I feel katze's bold, red question marks on Thunal on a very spiritual level looking back over these
    just saying what I'm working on I guess
    I'm still alive I promise

    -------------

    while you're here boq I require your Swedishness. I talked to holyflare a little bit about why I didn't have a goodbye post yesterday; I was answering one of your posts about something really unimportant when I noticed the timer was low, tried to get something out, and couldn't get it out in time.

    The forum I'm repping has a token Swede, and he told me something that I can't seem to find anymore in the discord about Swedish names. He said there was something related to my username, I think it was Sun, that can be a masculine name or a last name or something.

    its been driving me crazy

    you can just tack it onto an actual, productive post if you can understand what the hell I'm trying to remember here. Been driving me mad ever since yesterday.
    Wolves are shameful for killing Wisdom n1 btw never have I required Swedes more in my life.

  21. ISO #4971
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4743)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4741)
    Working through the thread now - just preparing for a blood test because my cheek that looks like i've swallowed a tennis ball. Hopefully not mumps.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#4678)
    Overnight notes:

    Knowing with certainty Soneji is a villager now, I expect wolves to like generally treat Soneji thread-temperature-wise, like townread Soneji when he’s being townread and drop him in POE when he’s not, so I’m going to consider that when weighing townyness in people’s approaches to Soneji.
    Alternatively a wolf may have him low, push him from early, and unwaver.

    If Soneji/TSF are V/V: Wolves don’t really have an investment in this case, maybe pick one to push and one to defend?
    If Soneji/TSF are V/W: Wolves have an active investment in Soneji going over here, so I’d take a look at who was a leader in the shifting position.

    How Wiml approached Soneji: P#705 initially says there’s a wolf in the people pushing him, which includes Soneji
    how do you feel about this now Wiml?
    P#870 wants thunal to sell him on Soneji V. P#936 says hornet pointed out a really villagery Soneji line earlier.
    P#2232 has Soneji as someone who could be wolfing.
    P#2676 Soneji in immediate POE
    P#3239 thinks Soneji looks worse
    P#3608 has Soneji very low
    P#3953 thinks Soneji/TSF aren’t a team
    P#4237 bad interactions with Vandy
    P#4378 ISOs Soneji and comes out with a wolfread


    Conclusion: Wiml’s approach to Soneji has been consistently scumleaning him, which is a fine look. There could arguably be some agenda in the way he’s ensured Soneji’s POE’d but he is pretty early wary of him.

    How Thunal approached Soneji:
    P#817 leaning town, P#891 reasoning why
    P#906 more reasons to townread Soneji, P#924 supports it
    P#1847 soneji is kinda low
    P#2053 has Soneji looking worse if Vandy W
    P#2375 leans Soneji v but not confident.
    P#2656 a bit suspicious of Soneji
    P#2732 Soneji looks worse than others
    P#2950 thinks there’s a chance Soneji is pocketing Gorf
    P#3122 Soneji bottom of POE
    P#3710 Soneji would be playing in upper end of wolf range if he’s wolfing here
    P#3905 it’s not exactly Soneji/TSF

    Conclusions: Generally Thunal’s approach to Soneji is at least consistent - she does a pretty thorough amount of work digging into him and I feel like I can track her mentally, looks fairly decent.

    How katze approached Soneji:
    P#1061 no read on Soneji
    P#1398 a tiny bit concerned on Soneji
    P#2692 tunneled on thunal, thinks Soneji/Thunal aren’t W/W
    P#2832 Vandy spew doesn’t look great for Soneji
    P#3310 it’s likely Soneji and Wiml are both villagers
    P#3786 thinks wolfread on Soneji isn’t fair
    P#4431 ISOs Soneji and has him as way worse EOD

    Conclusions - Mmm so the early defense of Soneji was wrapped around katze’s not-W/W read with Soneji/Thunal, so I can realistically see a world where katze no longer W reads Thunal so looks into Soneji and comes out W, especially when she earlier mentioned it was a weaker read. I don’t really like how close to EOD the Soneji case is dropped but I can realistically see the progression as villagery.
    --
    How hornet approached Soneji:

    How HolyFlare approached Soneji:

    okay i didn't get to these ones i think they're both town still though

    --

    How boq approached Soneji:
    P#1662 Soneji is POE but likes him.
    P#2655 town lean
    P#3471 has a weak town read on Soneji
    P#4402 can see Soneji being a wolf independently of TSF
    P#4458 found a Soneji post he disliked
    P#4491 - ‘if Soneji is town, Pilica/TSF stocks rise’

    Conclusions - Could be a candidate for deep wolf based on my earlier theory
    How TSF approached Soneji:
    P#1457 has Soneji low, has Soneji not towny/not nearly as towny as others, P#2258 votes soneji, P#2395 not super convinced he’s a wolf, P#2555 votes him though, P#2986 may townread Soneji after the ISO, P#3037 has Soneji decently high, P#3719 confused by the turnaround on soneji
    P#3744 accepts it and back to scumreading Soneji after the thread turns around, P#4512 hopes Soneji is a wolf, P#4611 specifically too

    >Feels like TMI tbh of TSF kinda realizing Soneji isn’t going to flip W EOD.

    Conclusion - I think this looks really bad

    How Gorf approached Soneji:
    P#871 v reads, consistently has him as v for not being a good wolf. Consistently v read by P#1629, defends it P#2362. P#2885 has soneji lower but still V read, P#3247 going to consider the soneji sus, P#3417 has him as town, P#3429 town but weakest townread, P#3666 still wants soneji to be a villager, P#3728 repeats soneji is his weakest townread, P#3859 thinks he may have been holding onto his ego on the read, P#3891 thinks Soneji slipped (i actually just townread this post in general from Gorf, thinking he caught a slip is villagery), P#3948 Soneji is stiff - P#4072 compares Soneji to SF1 and comes out with feeling he’s wolfier, P#4496 thinks soneji’s looking like a hit

    Conclusions - I think Gorf’s approach to his Soneji read has been villagery. I think a wolf would be slightly more consistent too, like he holds the townread pretty strongly then does an almost complete reverse - the way he talks about the read being an ego read is towny.

    How Pilica approached Soneji

    (Note - ask Pilica to explain P#1240 and her view)

    P#1240 has Soneji as scum, P#3820 Soneji is in bottom 3, P#4381 votes Soneji because she’s townreading TSF

    Conclusions: ??? Pilica doesn’t really talk about Soneji at all, just has him low/POE
    @Pilica why did you suspect Soneji anyway?
    Can you please elaborate on why Boquise's Soneji progression looks bad (specifically the TMIing TSF part)?
    @JohnCarter to clarify it's not awful and I don't think Boq is ever partnered with TSF, but in terms of Soneji, it's more of considering who might be a deep wolf who had TMI that EOD, it feels like Boq didn't do a lot to actually look into Soneji/investigate his alignment after his early townread when compared to other people, and the way he kept asking what the case on Soneji EOD was could've been potential TMI - like Boq doesn't defend Soneji really but also doesn't seem to think he's a wolf, i dunno
    I looked at the cases and thought they made sense and acknowledged that maybe I am just dumb tbh

    I was also during my EOD1 read up considering potential partners to TSF and those landed on Soneji and Pilica. I regret not gunning hard for my stronger wolf read but I was also fine with the Soneji yeet tbh

  22. ISO #4972
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4970)
    I'm going through the posts following Hornet/vandy interaction (you know the one)
    I feel katze's bold, red question marks on Thunal on a very spiritual level looking back over these
    just saying what I'm working on I guess
    I'm still alive I promise

    -------------

    while you're here boq I require your Swedishness. I talked to holyflare a little bit about why I didn't have a goodbye post yesterday; I was answering one of your posts about something really unimportant when I noticed the timer was low, tried to get something out, and couldn't get it out in time.

    The forum I'm repping has a token Swede, and he told me something that I can't seem to find anymore in the discord about Swedish names. He said there was something related to my username, I think it was Sun, that can be a masculine name or a last name or something.

    its been driving me crazy

    you can just tack it onto an actual, productive post if you can understand what the hell I'm trying to remember here. Been driving me mad ever since yesterday.
    Wolves are shameful for killing Wisdom n1 btw never have I required Swedes more in my life.
    Sune?

  23. ISO #4973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4972)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4970)
    I'm going through the posts following Hornet/vandy interaction (you know the one)
    I feel katze's bold, red question marks on Thunal on a very spiritual level looking back over these
    just saying what I'm working on I guess
    I'm still alive I promise

    -------------

    while you're here boq I require your Swedishness. I talked to holyflare a little bit about why I didn't have a goodbye post yesterday; I was answering one of your posts about something really unimportant when I noticed the timer was low, tried to get something out, and couldn't get it out in time.

    The forum I'm repping has a token Swede, and he told me something that I can't seem to find anymore in the discord about Swedish names. He said there was something related to my username, I think it was Sun, that can be a masculine name or a last name or something.

    its been driving me crazy

    you can just tack it onto an actual, productive post if you can understand what the hell I'm trying to remember here. Been driving me mad ever since yesterday.
    Wolves are shameful for killing Wisdom n1 btw never have I required Swedes more in my life.
    Sune?
    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    maybe? I thought it would seem right if I heard it or saw it, but that doesn't
    I won't waste more posts on it but I legit cannot find this conversation in discord
    anyways
    back to the game

  24. ISO #4974
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#4787)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4125)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4117)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#4110)
    I think the clears of Hornet/alexa/Holyflare are correct, and I don't think Wiml is a wolf with TSF or Soneji. Boq/Gorf/Pilica is my potential deepwolf pile in order from least to most likely. I thought Boq's ISO looked really towny so I hesitated even putting him in the deepwolf list but he could potentially be with Soneji, never TSF. Gorf could be with TSF if he bussed a lot but I don't see him with Soneji because if Soneji is w I think his treatment of Gorf is pockety. Pilica could be with either.
    In p#2985 I concluded that game-state indicated one wolf in Soneji/Boq, but never really zero and never really two.

    For there to be zero, IMO, that would require Vandy already POEing a wolf prior to dropping Soneji/Boq down in his list exactly once. This would have to be exactly [Wiml, Hornet].

    There was the odd person that thought the logic used in said post was a touch over-reliant on spew, but gth, do I have a point?
    I'd say never both, the never zero is debateable, if it was just an accident. But I'm pretty sure that there should be one in that weird movement, so yeah. If TSF flips town, which I doubt, I'd next look for each 1 wolf in those two groups.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4381)
    Okay you all probably wondered wtf I was doing but those who played some more with me... actually cross that mostly. The only one who probs is kinda familiar with it is Boq.

    Either way, I used my "How to read The Lukundo :tm:" strategy on TSF but like... Leveled up XD Leveled up and more difficult because they are different players and TSF is more of an analyser than Kundo (no offense Kundo if you read this ly still) so being adapted.

    Basically in SF3 it became very apparent to me that he's an overthinker. Which didn't seem to me like just a wolf thing but more so a general personality thing. I THINK I went through basically all the players and jumped back and forth to what I believed are where his reads are. The goal to this was to see how quick he can deliver a proper answer. Not taking ages to write an essay but short reasonings in either direction. At the same time leveling it just right in a reads list that wasn't listed but forming by his answers.

    1. We all got a clear state of his mind where he is which imo helps to read him and if he were to flip easily shows us where he is with his head.
    2. By making so many jumps back and forth, keeping in mind positioning and everything even an analyst would have a hard time to come up with it properly and logically in and off itself without accidentally slipping something contradictory in. It's not fool proof (even though that method never failed me personally) but the time aspect is VERY crucial. He was answering very fast as well as that didn't fully focus on it but also interact with the thread.
    3. TSF seemed to me, catching up, like he had a harder time getting back in. So I wanted to help him to get fully back into it by sorting his thoughts and putting them out there.

    To me his answers seemed fine. You are all welcome to double check them, see if something doesn't line up but to me they read towny. The time he took was towny as well as the level of development of his reads. All were developed to different degrees in what feels to me like a natural leveling. Therefore I think he actually is a town naturally developing these reads.

    Therefore I'll do this now:
    ##Vote Soneji
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4436)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4397)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4387)
    $%#! didn't see someone already broke the tie. I wanted to do it x.x boo
    no rands?
    Not when I'm sure I just found you town lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4443)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#4408)
    I wholly approve of either yeeting Soneji shooting TSF or yeeting TSF shooting soneji
    I agree on killing Soneji either way but I think if Soneji flipw w Vig should shoot someone else.


    This is Pilica's more recent progression on TSF and I'm actually confident in them being w/w, and I'm not confident in low probability reads often. In #4381 her level of confidence was low to moderate, using language like "his answers seemed fine" "they read towny" "therefore I think he actually is a town naturally developing these reads" and she said the method wasn't foolproof.

    Then in #4436 she's sure she just found TSF town. There's a big mismatch in the confidence between those two posts with no reason for that mismatch. It just looks like she's trying to save TSF and realized she had to kill Soneji over him, and that also lines up with her opposing a vig on TSF.
    Even tho I have TSF/Pilica as a team, this gives me the opposite conclusion to yours. Wolves need to distance to end game and blatant town reads of a partner here is not necessary when the thread is already pushing for Soneji. It is far more optimal to keep the subtle town read or start scum reading TSF late for cred.

    Especially if you're known for manipulating spew like Pilica.

    Also town is not consistent with their thoughts.

  25. ISO #4975
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4849)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#4847)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4838)
    lets do this again, I suppose
    @Wiml
    @katze
    @Hornet
    @anyone else reading this later

    I flip town today, JC dies tonight
    who are the two wolves
    if we live in the hell world where you and pilica are v/v then i'd cry so pilica and... thunal? idk if that team makes sense interactions wise but ya

    i need to reevaluate my townreads on like

    wiml/gorf/boq

    but

    aorn thats kinda where im at
    I suspect we are in hell
    its been jarring to see so many people scumread Pilica today when I thought she was incredibly villagery once she was actually around yesterday
    I guess I should mostly throw this read away and revisit like most others

    it truly seems that she is destined to struggle around d3
    In post p#4828 you say you scum read her yesterday but now it sounds like you town read her. What gives tbh?

  26. ISO #4976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4975)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4849)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#4847)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4838)
    lets do this again, I suppose
    @Wiml
    @katze
    @Hornet
    @anyone else reading this later

    I flip town today, JC dies tonight
    who are the two wolves
    if we live in the hell world where you and pilica are v/v then i'd cry so pilica and... thunal? idk if that team makes sense interactions wise but ya

    i need to reevaluate my townreads on like

    wiml/gorf/boq

    but

    aorn thats kinda where im at
    I suspect we are in hell
    its been jarring to see so many people scumread Pilica today when I thought she was incredibly villagery once she was actually around yesterday
    I guess I should mostly throw this read away and revisit like most others

    it truly seems that she is destined to struggle around d3
    In post p#4828 you say you scum read her yesterday but now it sounds like you town read her. What gives tbh?
    I townread her yesterday after she re-entered, but before she re-entered, I ISO'd her, scumread her for her vandy progression, and no one really liked it
    then like 3 people entered today calling her vandy progression bad

    hf is right; this is not new information and its just kinda like
    frustrating to see so many people say it now in the same way that I was not on the same wavelength as people on soneji at times

    to be clear, I'm like
    townreading pilica, but I'm determining whether or not I should be, which is a semi cop-out answer, I know
    but most people are in that slot right now.

    tbh I said to vanity yesterday I was considering locking pilica in as town, as well as alexa.

    hopefully this is clearing this up for you

    ----------------------------------------------------

    also, yes, it was Sune. I had looked for many other keywords but not that one, thanks.

  27. ISO #4977
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    Season 8 Finale! [The Mafia Championship] Day 3 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 The Sun Fan alexa (49), Boquise (15), Thunal33 (25)
    8 Not voting Hornet (14), The Sun Fan (40), JohnCarter (27), Gorf (30), Wiml (41), Holyflare (24), Pilica (0), katze (47)

    View Vote History

    End day at majority is enabled. With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

    Day 3 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Friday, October 15th, 2021. There are 1634335260000 remaining.

  28. ISO #4978
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    Have to get ready for work

    In a not TSF/Pilica world

    I think Pilica could be a wolf

    But I also notice the sudden surge of scum reads on her, when no one entertained it yesterday when I was on it. It reminds me of S5 Finale where thread has its pool of players that could be yeeted or made yeetable and the thread had a sort of locked feeling. Which is probably why I feel a bit uncomfortable tbh

    With that said, if Pilica is town with TSF, then the scum equity of Gorf, Thunal and Wiml rise. Not Alexa because of she started the day and I feel like the thoughts are original whereas others have latched on, and I still feel like Gorf can be trying to co-captain. It also annoyingly reminds me of the previous finale because I think I have said things that are not really looked at but I guess I will have to be more assertive tbh

    TSF has yet to write a post today that is super villagery. I have previously been good at finding out if a bottom poe is town or not, like Apogee in SF1. I don't see that here with TSF. What makes me hesitate is the thread atmosphere, not TSF's individual posts.

    Like TSF when writing about me, you don't really bring up the hedge I had about you yesterday. I did try to solve you. Though not as much as I wished.

  29. ISO #4979
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Skimmed your response for now TSF. For what it is worth, I completely get your frustration.

    Regarding NKA, Vanity town read Pilica hard. I think that makes me lean to a good look for Pilica even tho it can just be that scum figured out that vanity was the doc. Her MD comments yesterday kinda spewed her doc lmao

  30. ISO #4980
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#1530)
    Frankly this game has not been enjoyable for me remotely. I've disliked the way JC has treated me. I've disliked the way Vanity has treated me. In general I'm pretty miserable/demotivated and on the same page as Wiml where I don't really care if I go today and feel kind of spiteful.

    @Hornet @Boquise @Holyflare @Wisdom @Thunal33 you've been great though

    like vanity saying she townreads me then voting me anyway because I'm part of some POE is $%#!ing annoying and I feel like no matter what I do I'm treated this way and not listened to. I want to call it karma for SF2 how I was with Cuth/SK/Illwei, I probably deserve it, but it's really been a sucky experience.

    I honestly just want to ask to be voted out today and probably would if this wasn't champs but instead I'm going to use my last posts to try to ISO/solve as much as possible, hopefully we can continue this discussion in post game about why particular things are just $%#!ty. Kind of getting how c4 felt in SF3.
    ok I am not going to quote this later and talk about it then in what I'm working on now, I'll just do it now
    I'm locking alexa in as a villager and probably never reconsidering
    this post hits real different on an ISO; this was a critical time for wolves, vandy is, at this point, flailing and this just
    isn't what vandy's partner is doing
    she looks very good anyways off of vandy stuff and at least a few other things that I don't even remember rn but yeah

    I also just tend to really buy these posts like a sucker

  31. ISO #4981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4979)
    Skimmed your response for now TSF. For what it is worth, I completely get your frustration.

    Regarding NKA, Vanity town read Pilica hard. I think that makes me lean to a good look for Pilica even tho it can just be that scum figured out that vanity was the doc. Her MD comments yesterday kinda spewed her doc lmao
    fwiw I'm not particularly frustrated
    its destined to happen in any game where its 13 good players and 2 swedes trying their hardest; there's gonna be a lot of posts, a fair bit of ego, and a lot of people missing posts or not realizing something that other people have said. Like I just found that alexa post from what feels like years ago at this point, but it was 5 3/4 days ago.

    at least half of the mentions I've got has been stuff I've already been questioned on, but that's just mafia.
    we're chickens with our heads cut off, but I'd like to pretend we're good at running around.

    I'm only minorly frustrated, and I've been at least as guilty as other people have been, if not more.

    -----------------------

    also I put 0 stock into that nightkill analysis
    wolves were always going to roleblock JC, we know that now, at the least
    wolves were also always going to kill vanity, I'd reckon. Probably don't wanna write too many words on why but, at a cursory glance, it seems optimal? Scenario didn't come up in sf3 but I think its correct?
    I'd like to assume wolves played optimally on purpose

    You can look at vanity's legacy and come to that conclusion and I hate it a lot less; maybe that's what you did.

  32. ISO #4982
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    Good morning I got an appointment with my bachelor thesis prof soon.

    I knew you'd all gun for my head now. Seriously thought Soneji would be it for POE reasons or at least more likely than TSF. $%#! me I guess. Either way I'll be answering to pings and everything later but ngl it feels like if you don't kill me today you will tomorrow. So can you do me the favor of offing me first if you're still convinced by EoD it HAS to be me +X because I feel you all need my town flip to hit you in the face real hard rn.

  33. ISO #4983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4982)
    Good morning I got an appointment with my bachelor thesis prof soon.

    I knew you'd all gun for my head now. Seriously thought Soneji would be it for POE reasons or at least more likely than TSF. $%#! me I guess. Either way I'll be answering to pings and everything later but ngl it feels like if you don't kill me today you will tomorrow. So can you do me the favor of offing me first if you're still convinced by EoD it HAS to be me +X because I feel you all need my town flip to hit you in the face real hard rn.
    good God I want to townshield you and this is just one post
    if you're a wolf I just
    wasn't paying enough attention to you in sf3, I guess, seems somewhat unlikely.

  34. ISO #4984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4978)
    With that said, if Pilica is town with TSF, then the scum equity of Gorf, Thunal and Wiml rise.
    Who would Wiml be with? In your wall, I believe you said he said he fit with Vandy/TSF - though this world has TSF!v.

    I also think you concluded gorf/wiml not w/w.

    So does Thunal/Wiml work for you? Because I don't think it does.

    To me it looks like if Thunal were a wolf, she's been intent on keeping Wiml in the POE, which reminds me of how Vandy treated Wiml. Perhaps one wolf does this to wolf #3, though i'm not sold on the idea that two would, particularly as the heat they'd have stirred on him would directly mean he would not end-game?

  35. ISO #4985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4982)
    Good morning I got an appointment with my bachelor thesis prof soon.

    I knew you'd all gun for my head now. Seriously thought Soneji would be it for POE reasons or at least more likely than TSF. $%#! me I guess. Either way I'll be answering to pings and everything later but ngl it feels like if you don't kill me today you will tomorrow. So can you do me the favor of offing me first if you're still convinced by EoD it HAS to be me +X because I feel you all need my town flip to hit you in the face real hard rn.
    Hope your psych thesis is going well - they can be very time consuming


    Haven't pinged you. You'll see in my scenario's post that i've put forward a few worlds though, and that's what I particularly want to hear from you on.

    I can see the argument you're making about flipping you if you think others are 100% convinced on you, but, also, let's not work with that thought anymore. Catch woofs. You seemed to get Vandy!

  36. ISO #4986
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4984)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4978)
    With that said, if Pilica is town with TSF, then the scum equity of Gorf, Thunal and Wiml rise.
    Who would Wiml be with? In your wall, I believe you said he said he fit with Vandy/TSF - though this world has TSF!v.

    I also think you concluded gorf/wiml not w/w.

    So does Thunal/Wiml work for you? Because I don't think it does.

    To me it looks like if Thunal were a wolf, she's been intent on keeping Wiml in the POE, which reminds me of how Vandy treated Wiml. Perhaps one wolf does this to wolf #3, though i'm not sold on the idea that two would, particularly as the heat they'd have stirred on him would directly mean he would not end-game?
    To add to this, Boq, I am quite strongly of the mind that Thunal/Gorf aren't a pairing, too. I explain in p#3491. Whilst I don't stand by all my reasoning in that post with conviction now, I do stand by that one.

    So that kind of just says (to me, not to you, i'm open to your view) that there's only 0-1 wolves in that pile of 3, regardless of the other two flips.

  37. ISO #4987
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#1542)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1535)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#1530)
    Frankly this game has not been enjoyable for me remotely. I've disliked the way JC has treated me. I've disliked the way Vanity has treated me. In general I'm pretty miserable/demotivated and on the same page as Wiml where I don't really care if I go today and feel kind of spiteful.

    @Hornet @Boquise @Holyflare @Wisdom @Thunal33 you've been great though

    like vanity saying she townreads me then voting me anyway because I'm part of some POE is $%#!ing annoying and I feel like no matter what I do I'm treated this way and not listened to. I want to call it karma for SF2 how I was with Cuth/SK/Illwei, I probably deserve it, but it's really been a sucky experience.

    I honestly just want to ask to be voted out today and probably would if this wasn't champs but instead I'm going to use my last posts to try to ISO/solve as much as possible, hopefully we can continue this discussion in post game about why particular things are just $%#!ty. Kind of getting how c4 felt in SF3.
    everyone's been villagery to some extent. well, except for maybe pilica who just hasn't really posted lol.

    if anything this is exactly why i didn't want to bucket and just play a normal game of mafia on d1. i'm sorry that i'm the one that ended up initiating it because i, of all people, didn't want to. i could continue ranting about how people can't read me when i'm not even that good of a wolf but it doesn't matter and i don't want more negative energy in the thread.

    i'll be sure to iso you at some point and get a more firm grasp of your alignment. for me, it was more based on how you initially claimed and i didn't hate most of your posts, but... the poe is seriously clamping down at this point. so either i'm wrong on one of hornet/holyflare/boq/katze/gorf/thunal, or the wolves are all outside of those names from your perspective. i don't even think something like wiml/vandy/x is that ridiculous of a team, and i don't necessarily think you fit within it?

    i feel like this in general is just a common sentiment that would be true regardless of alignment. i think we're all at the point where we're just sick of this setup and never want anyone to deal with a 3 pr 15er setup in champs ever again. or at least, that's how i feel. but it isn't necessarily that i don't want to listen to you. you're just not edging out the competition in my v reads. i don't think you're a wolf, but i can't say i unequivocally think you're a villager either.

    but ngl i'm pretty sure you're guilt tripping me regardless of your alignment. wiml probably is too. and honestly, this behavior is just. ugh. not conducive to the game's health. at all.
    Then actually $%#!ing ISO me instead of continuously saying you will and voting me because I'm not part of a clique. Like same with JC, everyone's casing me based on stupid stuff related to my entrance and ignoring my content and solving since. And actually this is not stuff I say as wolf but whatever, I got angry/ATE'd at people specifically in constellations day one to break my emotional tell but it was just me OMGUSing people, I'm a good wolf and very capable of getting townread in other ways lol.

    And I've generally been very calm this game but it's getting to a point that's crossing a line for me and I can see other people have felt it too.
    I was a fool not to lock in alexa before

  38. ISO #4988
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4983)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4982)
    Good morning I got an appointment with my bachelor thesis prof soon.

    I knew you'd all gun for my head now. Seriously thought Soneji would be it for POE reasons or at least more likely than TSF. $%#! me I guess. Either way I'll be answering to pings and everything later but ngl it feels like if you don't kill me today you will tomorrow. So can you do me the favor of offing me first if you're still convinced by EoD it HAS to be me +X because I feel you all need my town flip to hit you in the face real hard rn.
    good God I want to townshield you and this is just one post
    if you're a wolf I just
    wasn't paying enough attention to you in sf3, I guess, seems somewhat unlikely.
    TSF, this confuses me. You didn't interact with my scenarios post p#4959.

    To me, if you're a villager, you should see Pilica as a wolf + one of Thunal, Boq, and Gorf as a wolf. OR: two of Thunal, Boq, and Gorf as wolves - which I have as unlikely.

    This post reads like you're intentionally try to be misleading for how you 'read' Pilica. Sorry.


    Is she a wolf or not?

  39. ISO #4989
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4988)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4983)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#4982)
    Good morning I got an appointment with my bachelor thesis prof soon.

    I knew you'd all gun for my head now. Seriously thought Soneji would be it for POE reasons or at least more likely than TSF. $%#! me I guess. Either way I'll be answering to pings and everything later but ngl it feels like if you don't kill me today you will tomorrow. So can you do me the favor of offing me first if you're still convinced by EoD it HAS to be me +X because I feel you all need my town flip to hit you in the face real hard rn.
    good God I want to townshield you and this is just one post
    if you're a wolf I just
    wasn't paying enough attention to you in sf3, I guess, seems somewhat unlikely.
    TSF, this confuses me. You didn't interact with my scenarios post p#4959.

    To me, if you're a villager, you should see Pilica as a wolf + one of Thunal, Boq, and Gorf as a wolf. OR: two of Thunal, Boq, and Gorf as wolves - which I have as unlikely.

    This post reads like you're intentionally try to be misleading for how you 'read' Pilica. Sorry.


    Is she a wolf or not?
    I did read that scenarios post

    I admit that usually, wolves don't group themselves together, I agree
    I'm working on something rn where I'm looking through every post between hornet/vandy interaction and the point where my wagon well and truly dies, and I'm circa post 1550 rn

    I'll address at least some of your concerns here when I finish this, but tomorrow, I am going to ISO Pilica in sf3 and compare it here.
    I won't spend too many words talking about meta, but I'm kind of expecting it to leap out at me like Spiny did in s6 finals where it'd be like
    close to impossible for Pilica to be a wolf
    that's just what her headspace is to me tonally, she feels so different from sf3, everything is consistent.

    also I haven't ruled out Wiml yet

    its kind of clicking that someone might look at what I'm doing and think its too similar to what you already did in that post, though
    kinda too far in not to do it at this point though

    tl;dr pilica in a precarious state in my reads, townread her but don't know if I should, that post helped me feel a bit to a good bit better, though. Ask again in about 18 hours and I will tell you, definitively, whether she is a wolf or not with enough confidence to where I should never be reversing the read.

  40. ISO #4990
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    I'll stay tuned. Wanna chat? I have a question for you.

    As players become more familiar with each other, how likely is it that they use really level 0 reads to read the other? EG: "JC is really solvey so I think that makes him town".

  41. ISO #4991
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4990)
    I'll stay tuned. Wanna chat? I have a question for you.

    As players become more familiar with each other, how likely is it that they use really level 0 reads to read the other? EG: "JC is really solvey so I think that makes him town".
    I'm going to assume you want me to give you the long answer, and not the short answer, to this question, yeah?

    There is something to be said about this specifically in video mafia; many, many, many years ago, before my parents even knew I wasn't straight, before I had met my fiance, before so much other things in my life had happened, I played video mafia religiously. I had a read on another player, and this happened pretty quick actually, maybe after we had played 20 games together, where I would get his alignment based on the lines on his face. I was 100% on it for something like 25 games, its the stupidest read I've ever really had on someone, but I can tell you, beyond any bull$%#!, that it worked. When the lines on his face were a lower case n, he was town, when the lines on his face were a lower case u, he was mafia. (It could be the other way around it was like 8 years ago at this point, it was one or the other and the actual history is well lost to time by now). The read no longer works and hasn't worked in at least half a decade, almost definitely longer.

    What level is that read even on? I don't $%#!ing know. I knew him semi-well then, I know him well to very well now, and it developed after a decently sized amount of games.

    I do think that the more you know someone, the better you can get at reading them and the more likely you can get a soulread on them. I still have a good read on that player, to the point where I have bet time off of the game, like said stuff like "I will not play mafia for x amount of months if I am wrong on this player" and never been wrong on them.

    There are also players who I've known for about as long that I'm $%#! at reading, but also know well. Its just how mafia is, I guess. Also is an area where I could do better.

    If you'll allow my ego, some of it is related to how good the other players are. There are some players on my home forum who, at times, have had incredibly obvious volume tells, and I'd say that's level 0.

    For stuff specifically in the vein of "Jc is really solvey...," I'd say that stuff becomes a bit rarer. It would become something stupid, something Zen and unexplainable like my facial line read, or something more developed.
    Also that stuff is more common earlier on in the game and those reads naturally give way later but that's the level 0 answer to your question.

    I had a feeling you wanted the long answer here, sorry if you didn't, just trying to give you what I think you'd want.

  42. ISO #4992
    GOAT Tier The Sun Fan's Avatar
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    prelude to my incoming post
    boq is outed
    ##Vote Boquise

  43. ISO #4993
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Ooo, lot's of details. Thanks for sharing.

    Gotcha. So you can have level 0 reads on players you know well, but these will mostly be on the basis of it being specifically applicable to that player. Right.

    Given you know Vandy extremely well, can you explain your headspace when one of the few times you doubted Vandy, it was for a very non-specific level 0 read:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1436)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#811)
    I’m on a lunch at work. I’m caught up. If anyone has any questions let me know. I’ll probably Iso everybody and write up a wall when I get home
    was kind of on the fence about using a post on this but I think the way vandy talks here is slightly wolfy

    he keeps talking about how if anyone has any questions, they should ask them, and I think wolves do this slightly more often to appear kind of cheerleader-y like "I'm open, ask me anything! I'll gladly help anyone solve my slot!"

    its the first thing I've seen from him that I don't really like much

  44. ISO #4994
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4993)
    Ooo, lot's of details. Thanks for sharing.

    Gotcha. So you can have level 0 reads on players you know well, but these will mostly be on the basis of it being specifically applicable to that player. Right.

    Given you know Vandy extremely well, can you explain your headspace when one of the few times you doubted Vandy, it was for a very non-specific level 0 read:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1436)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#811)
    I’m on a lunch at work. I’m caught up. If anyone has any questions let me know. I’ll probably Iso everybody and write up a wall when I get home
    was kind of on the fence about using a post on this but I think the way vandy talks here is slightly wolfy

    he keeps talking about how if anyone has any questions, they should ask them, and I think wolves do this slightly more often to appear kind of cheerleader-y like "I'm open, ask me anything! I'll gladly help anyone solve my slot!"

    its the first thing I've seen from him that I don't really like much
    I actually don't think this is a level 0 read, and I promise this isn't really meant to be a history lesson, but I've believed that wolves are slightly to somewhat more likely to be posing such things to the thread for reasons that they like... want to appear that they aren't hiding.

    I've believed this since before my first forum mafia game, actually. I was lurking and reading a game where the man who I am engaged to posted something like what vandy did there, and it was the post that got him killed. The fact that I call it a cheerleader-y post is actually quoting the very push that someone who has repped my home forum made on him in that game, I'll even try to find that post because maybe you can actually see my process as townie there:





    looking back, this isn't like
    exactly the same, and danceguy's post isn't what I thought it was in memory.
    there's a post SOMEWHERE over the past however many years, god knows I might not even be within three so I'm not going to look for it, where its a lot closer to what vandy did this game, and I led the kill on that person d1 (or d0 since its FFR) and they flipped red

    Its my missed shot this game; its where I should've questioned my townread more.
    I saw that post of mine when I was doing what I've been doing now and I kicked myself

    also fwiw I don't think that's a level 0 read I think its a good one that I mean
    its just not level 0?
    maybe you and I think of level 0 as different things but not super important
    should be enough of an answer to your question now.

  45. ISO #4995
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4986)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4984)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4978)
    With that said, if Pilica is town with TSF, then the scum equity of Gorf, Thunal and Wiml rise.
    Who would Wiml be with? In your wall, I believe you said he said he fit with Vandy/TSF - though this world has TSF!v.

    I also think you concluded gorf/wiml not w/w.

    So does Thunal/Wiml work for you? Because I don't think it does.

    To me it looks like if Thunal were a wolf, she's been intent on keeping Wiml in the POE, which reminds me of how Vandy treated Wiml. Perhaps one wolf does this to wolf #3, though i'm not sold on the idea that two would, particularly as the heat they'd have stirred on him would directly mean he would not end-game?
    To add to this, Boq, I am quite strongly of the mind that Thunal/Gorf aren't a pairing, too. I explain in p#3491. Whilst I don't stand by all my reasoning in that post with conviction now, I do stand by that one.

    So that kind of just says (to me, not to you, i'm open to your view) that there's only 0-1 wolves in that pile of 3, regardless of the other two flips.
    Thats fair but I will do my own solve tbh

  46. ISO #4996
    GOAT Tier JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Right, so perhaps I was unkind in labelling it level 0, but it was unspecific (“wolves do this slightly more”) and it amounts to “he could be faking looking easy to work with” which I think is very level 0 for the experience that you and Vandy share.

    Perhaps it’s a me problem, but at the very least if you’re applying this generic schematic, I would expect you to touch on why that is wolfy for Vandy. Because you know him. Very well.

    This is not me saying that your reads are level 0. This is me saying that you labelling a generic wolfy behaviour without applying it to someone you have experience on is out of place.

    Anyways. I won’t take up more of your time on that front.

  47. ISO #4997
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#4996)
    Right, so perhaps I was unkind in labelling it level 0, but it was unspecific (“wolves do this slightly more”) and it amounts to “he could be faking looking easy to work with” which I think is very level 0 for the experience that you and Vandy share.

    Perhaps it’s a me problem, but at the very least if you’re applying this generic schematic, I would expect you to touch on why that is wolfy for Vandy. Because you know him. Very well.

    This is not me saying that your reads are level 0. This is me saying that you labelling a generic wolfy behaviour without applying it to someone you have experience on is out of place.

    Anyways. I won’t take up more of your time on that front.
    I think this only would've happened if I was scumreading vandy more
    it should've happened though, I will admit to that

  48. ISO #4998
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4992)
    prelude to my incoming post
    boq is outed
    ##Vote Boquise
    if this becomes a thunderdome where you flip scum, I am all for it tbh

  49. ISO #4999
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    i feel like i get static because people think too much pairings pre-flip so I am only "allowed" (not really allowed but like) to look at a very small few amount of people. I will look at what's independently wolfy tbh

  50. ISO #5000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#4998)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#4992)
    prelude to my incoming post
    boq is outed
    ##Vote Boquise
    if this becomes a thunderdome where you flip scum, I am all for it tbh
    at this point, if I have to die to drag you to hell, at least I'll take a scum with me
    your progression on vandy is, by far, the worst by anyone not named The Sun Fan and I have the burden/luxury or being a villager
    this is taking a long-$%#! time to get going, and I'm going to be miserable tomorrow for it, but I'm not sleeping without finishing this.

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