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Thread: Season 8, Finale! Secure Championship Procedure [The Mafia Championship]

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  1. ISO #3101
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    Meh I can't find the post I mean and I can't stop to look for it.

  2. ISO #3102
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3094)
    Yes. Really. You came in at the final hour and your content is so easy to fake if you have tmi that your partner vandy is a sinking ship. I agree with the people who said your readslist is not good (I’ll have to read into your D1 analysis post to really run with this), but even so that was posted after TSF said this. What should TSF see in your D1 play that should lead him to having a stronger read, one way or the other?
    "Pilica comes in D1, first tries to push a narrative that Vandy is another Levi. Maybe in a try to make people afraid of yet another D1 chop that was fully agreed on by town. Seeing that this didn't do anything he decided to instead go the bussing route and came out with a maf read on the iso. After that she didn't do much anymore, just life timing and interacting not all to seriously while throwing more shade onto Vandy."

    Here. Simple. That's a better reasoning for wolf reading me than what TSF gives. Easily made a narrative using the fact I had like no context and therefore there wasn't much that I COULD do.

  3. ISO #3103
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#3100)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3097)
    Top of my head thought on Pilica d1 post list that I'd like someone else to comment on:

    Does it look like Pilica goes into it with the pre determined view of scum reading Wiml? Even from post 1 mentioned it kinda looks that way.
    I don't know what you're referring to but she just made a post that pinged me that implied she was going to iso me with a predetermined outcome.
    P#3044

  4. ISO #3104
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3099)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3096)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3093)
    Team Pilica on this one I'm afraid. Not that I'm biased or anything but it's easy to see why the reaction is that way. TSF has no thoughts on his vote to even be nuanced.
    I think the thought “I village read everybody more than pilica atm” is a fair one
    I think if that's your only thought on Pilica after wolfing with Pilica then it's absolutely fair to be scum read for it. Just look at my views on Pilica and compare it to TSF's. Sure, there's little to go off and Pilica could be mafia but there's literally 0 input as to why.
    And that is pretty consistent with tsf’s mo through this game: cares more about finding town. I don’t think TSF/pilica is off the table, but this angle pilica is taking is a bad one and it makes me question her priorities given her place in the gamestate

    Haven’t looked deeply into her read/progression onto wiml, but will consider that later today.

  5. ISO #3105
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    i don’t think pilica putting hornet in the bottom of their list is wolfy

    and just personally, i don’t read too strongly into the tsf cw that came up because i like. sorta doubt that wolves would actually think that would be a viable method to saving vandy.

    need to get out of bed and somehow find something to eat and then i’ll iso wiml. sorry if i missed you explicitly saying you weren’t going to think out loud but i won’t lie and say that wasn’t influencing my read somewhat. i just really hope i can see what others are seeing by the time i’m done evaluating your iso.

  6. ISO #3106
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#3095)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3085)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#3083)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3082)
    Sooo me putting you at the bottom is the main reason why you disagree?

    I am mainly a player that works on gut and vibes if town. Boq doesn't feel wolfy, or threatening. I know that the game we played together has been ages ago but I'm getting the same feeling from his posts therefore I'm pretty certain he's town. Since most of my other reads aren't as stronhly he gets such a good spot.

    And I will be able to expand on my gut read on an iso later towards the evening/night but rn I'll just catch up fully and then I gotta leave again for a while.
    You putting three villagers minimum in your bottom four is what is immediately pinging me yes.

    I'm not satisfied with your explanation still but I'll drop this while you're busy then.
    Well I cannot have godreads, sorry for that. But that's where my head is at.

    And gotcha, when I get around to the Hornet iso I'll @ you
    My issue with the pushes is that I think me/Hornet/to a much lesser degree alexa are all villagers who you would see as easyish miselins from your perspective I'd you're a wolf.

    (Some might disagree wrt Hornet but look at how stubborn Vandy was - he was clearly a designated miselim)

    Definitely also Soneji if he's a villager.

    Given that your wolf meta pretty much described what I mentioned above, I definitely have concerns.
    I would argue that Boq is quite an easy mislim. There has been underlying suspicion. Also Wisdom was talking about the 'he's too towny to be town' kind of way. There aren't many who hard townread him in contrast to Hornet. So it would be easier to put Boq down there. Also I already said I'm willing to reevaluate Hornet. After having my buddy sink partially because he was that stubborn about Hornet I would have the easiest time reevaluating then and there. HECK with my EoD1 mindset I could just go ANYWHERE. Because I made it clear I didn't read before. So if I wanted to fabricate stuff there's easier routes to takes. That's where my head is at and you either take it or leave it. May you repeat what your lowest 4 would be?


    As for you I already mentioned some things why I don't have a good feeling about you but there was no reaction to it.

  7. ISO #3107
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3102)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3094)
    Yes. Really. You came in at the final hour and your content is so easy to fake if you have tmi that your partner vandy is a sinking ship. I agree with the people who said your readslist is not good (I’ll have to read into your D1 analysis post to really run with this), but even so that was posted after TSF said this. What should TSF see in your D1 play that should lead him to having a stronger read, one way or the other?
    "Pilica comes in D1, first tries to push a narrative that Vandy is another Levi. Maybe in a try to make people afraid of yet another D1 chop that was fully agreed on by town. Seeing that this didn't do anything he decided to instead go the bussing route and came out with a maf read on the iso. After that she didn't do much anymore, just life timing and interacting not all to seriously while throwing more shade onto Vandy."

    Here. Simple. That's a better reasoning for wolf reading me than what TSF gives. Easily made a narrative using the fact I had like no context and therefore there wasn't much that I COULD do.
    Honestly I think I might wolfread something like that coming from TSF more than the nothing he said. Why is what he presented wolfy?

  8. ISO #3108
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2630)
    vandy spew stuff


    Some notes on how Vandy treats partners from Pokemon Mash/SF2 - generally will townread them if they’re being townread but not out of the blue - can sometimes specifically focus on them a fair but (such as with celtic in SF2), not a huge busser

    Hornet therefore comes off looking really good. HF is also just hard town for starting the initial push on Vandy anyway.

    P#148 feels like a decent-ish look for Wiml - Vandy is trying to discredit Wiml right away
    P#208 also feels unpartnered with Boq (in addition to how Boq acted in response)
    P#411 is kinda meh for TSF. I mentioned this before, but it’s like the type of TMI read that could make Vandy/TSF W/W, because Vandy is townreading me for voting TSF, even though realistically a vote shouldn’t say anything about my alignment without knowing TSF’s.
    P#449 is a decent look for TSF though, feels pockety
    P#1157 is kinda weird that Vandy specifically points out that Thunal’s read on him was weird when multiple people made the read that Vandy was towny for his approach to buckets, so a (-) point against Thunal, and P#1159 is kinda flailing his way out of it - then it’s weird Vandy still sticks Thunal top of reads in P#1240
    P#1161 is kind of iffy for Soneji, the read is kind of both specific and not thought-out, like I’m not really following the logic in it but it’s almost like he’s forcing himself to come to a conclusion (but notably, it’s definitely not Soneji/Wiml pair from this)
    P#1199 just straight up spewing Hornet town
    P#1240 Vandy builds worlds/accepts katze as a confirmed villager at this point which I think is a good look for katze
    P#1267 is probably enough to negate the earlier potential TMI bit between TSF/Vandy, because Vandy calls my progression on TSF good when i end up townreading TSF.
    P#1334 is interesting. First thought is just that it means there’s not scum there, but it also could be TMI so i guess it just winds into null. More posting this to see what other people think or if it could indicate anything.
    P#1501 could definitely be partnered with Soneji, the way he defends him here is kinda awkward
    P#1529 + for Hornet

    At this point i’d kinda regard Vandy as moving more into anti-spew and treat his posts less seriously.

    Looks good from Vandy spew: HF, Hornet, Wiml, katze(?), TSF(?)
    Looks worse from Vandy spew: Soneji, Thunal



    how people treated vandy

    How I’d expect wolves to treat Vandy: Kinda depends if Vandy is RBer or not, assuming now I would expect them to kind of go with thread temperature - which would mean switching/shifting into a bus when the thread temperature after vanity/Wisdom cleared themselves but townreading him early. If he’s RB i would expect more protection, but going to assume the former is the scenario.

    Hornet:
    P#1308 is really side-eyeing Vandy. P#1315 votes him. P#1316 emotional about it, feels like Vandy is ignoring his solving to nitpick and misrepresent him. P#1322 getting generally very frustrated over that, probes me P#1326 on what I think about Vandy misrepping him. P#1352 Vandy is his main confident scumspect. P#2278 expresses some concerns on stagnant wagon. P#2487 thinks Vandy is a wolf but EOD is making him nervous.

    Conclusion: Hornet pushed on Vandy from early after I pretty intense emotional exchange and still tried to engage with him and expressed doubt EOD in a way that showed a clear lack of TMI. Hornet is extremely unlikely to be partnered/to have bussed Vandy.

    HF:
    P#390 first vote on Vandy. P#496 explains Vandy read and how he finds Vandy different from quals. I give HF points for really shifting the momentum against Vandy. P#1151 wants Thunal to rethink her Vandy townread. P#1209 presents him with some really probing questions that look like he’s trying to engage/solve him. P#1229 moved Vandy above TSF and Wiml. P#1348 still dislikes Vandy’s this is outing comment however. P#1362 starts to go into some Vandy meta. P#1641 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#1820 still probing Vandy. P#2231 still finding Vandy’s reads wolfy.

    Conclusion: HF started the push against Vandy and still represented a very consistent desire to engage with Vandy, read was not stagnant at all, HF is very unlikely to have bussed Vandy.

    TSF:
    P#63 is almost positive Vandy is town. P#79 reiterates it, says he’s unlikely to change his Vandy read today. Continues to defend Vandy as the momentum shifts against him slightly, P#561. P#1058 is going to dive into Vandy’s SF game, and wants people to sheep his read on Vandy based on what he comes out with. P#1116 ends up saying he still thinks Vandy is town but is not as certain as he thought after reading Vandy’s semis game. (I think this in general is a very villagery approach to Vandy and looks like he’s actually trying to solve Vandy’s alignment). P#1139 still thinks Vandy’s town, isn’t going to change his mind. But P#1436 does call something about the way Vandy talks as slightly wolfy. P#1457 still has Vandy high in his reads however. P#1733 still strongly townreading Vandy. P#2587 “Vandy please be a villager.”

    Conclusion: TSF’s treatment of Vandy is decent. He pretty consistently has him as town, but seems to at least minorly re-val Vandy at some point. I think as a wolf he doesn’t really have a need to defend Vandy the way he did, but I wouldn’t completely outrule that he takes the approach to show internal consistently. Slightly unlikely to be paired with Vandy.

    Soneji:
    P#696 outs a slight townlean on tone on Vandy, says certain posts are a good look for Vandy. P#859 hedges slightly on the Vandy read, but still calls it towny. P#1649 finds Thunal’s treatment of Vandy partnered in general, would move Thunal to a strong wolf read if Vandy flips wolf. P#1695 says the Vandy wagon is fine but votes elsewhere.

    Conclusion: There’s nothing distinctly unpairing Vandy/Soneji, and even could argue if Thunal’s V, Soneji kind of sets up after realizing Vandy is dying that day.

    Katze:
    P#323 kind of aggressive with Vandy in immediate interaction. P#327 ends up outing a V read on Vandy. P#584, continues to say Vandy looks better than SF2. P#1061 has Vandy in list of village-leans. P#1084 hedges slightly on Vandy read but explains why she still likes him. P#1263 Katze expresses confusion on Vandy agreeing with Hornet’s take with JC. P#1378 Katze’s read on Vandy shifts pretty dramatically (there is some slight buildup i suppose but i would tinfoil this as being a potential ‘w/w where katze changed her read on Vandy once thread temperature shifted against him’). I do kinda stand by the sort of aggressive way katze’s treating Vandy as unpartnered outside of that and it’s why I’d marked it that way on my chart. P#1720 sticks up for Vandy wagon when it’s tied with TSF which I’d give slight town points to.
    P#2469 feels like Thunal could be a wolf TMIing Vandy/Hornet V/V - this is pretty good from katze as it distinctly lacks agenda.

    Conclusion: I would slightly tinfoil here as my original theory about how wolves would treat Vandy could apply to katze in the way she shifts her Vandy read when momentum turns against Vandy, but I think as a whole her treatment of Vandy is slightly unpartnered.

    Gorf:
    P#410 Gorf is null on Vandy right away and thinks the bucket stance is NAI. Consistently has Vandy low on reads’ list. P#545 similar take to me on Vandy not being villagery for bucket stance. P#1160 questions Vandy on why people townreading him over something NAI didn’t bother him earlier. P#1562 calls out some wolf saltyness from Vandy. P#1788 repeats a comment is a bad look for Vandy. P#2496 really thinks Vandy is a hit.

    Conclusion - I think Gorf is probably on the higher likelihood of being a buss candidate. He seems to not really waver on his Vandy read and doesn’t have many direct interactions with Vandy, but pushes it without expressing doubt even as others’ wavered EOD. I give him some points for having a similar early view to me on the bucket thing from Vandy not being towny, but there’s nothing really stopping this from being a buss.

    Wiml:
    P#40 “Vandy you’ve pocketed me again.” Awkward could be W/W. P#69 reiterates village read. P#260 compares Vandy to SF2 (as a townread). Continuing to want to look for something clearing for Vandy to towncase him. P#371 calls a post hard town for Vandy. P#388 repeats how towny Vandy has been. P#617 says Vandy doesn’t have a wolf motivation for pushing bucket but also mentions that he’s overwhelmed by Vandy’s other posting indicating the point in which his read trends down a bit. P#618 still townreads Vandy though due to his entrance - slight tinfoil of this being planned? P#622 still towncasing Vandy. P#876 takes Vandy out of top villagers but says he tentatively may be there. P#1644 trying to engage with Vandy, ‘doesn’t quite want to give up on finding him if he’s a villager.’ P#1724 wanting to flip this over TSF despite Wiml’s earlier read on Vandy is slight town points if TSF is V. P#1745 dislikes Vandy’s lack of response to his attempt to engage, follows up on the question. P#2116 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#2118 really wants Vandy to give him something to work with.

    Conclusion - Initial thought is that Wiml towncasing Vandy (especially after SF2) is very partnery behavior, however, I think the way Wiml’s read on Vandy progressed throughout the day in addition to the way Wiml was trying to engage with Vandy at EOD is less partnered. I think in all he’s unlikely to be with Vandy.

    Boq:
    If P#40 isn’t w/w, P#50 could potentially be Boq setting up on Wiml (don’t think this is ever W/W/W with Vandy/Boq/Wiml though)
    P#573 Boq townreads Vandy for shading him. P#703 reiterates it. P#1534 doesn’t think Vandy’s questioning of hornet is bad. P#1672 nothing strikingly scummy in Vandy ISO. P#1804 votes Vandy as he’s more likely to be able to solve TSF the next day.

    Conclusion - Nothing really stopping Boq from being W/W with Vandy. His treatment of Vandy is fine but nothing particularly clearing.

    Thunal:
    P#223 has Vandy slightly below null, considering it a “wait and see” read. In P#250 ends up feeling better about Vandy and TRing him. P#340 discussing how she approaches her Vandy notes with me and how he is as town/mafia early. P#817, still has Vandy at top of reads’ list. P#1107 still has Vandy as strongly town. P#1150 is still fairly confident Vandy is town. P#1184 mentions that she’s reading Vandy’s SF2 and agrees with TSF that it’s not the slamdunk she thought it was. P#1370 waffles on the Vandy V read, isn’t as comfortable with him but also feels like he’s an easy answer. P#1572 ends up shifting and voting Vandy. P#1394 wants Vandy over Pilica, P#1986 thinks it’s possible Vandy is a wolf for not posting.
    P#2053 is uhhh, kind of weird. Want to see how it manifests but I kinda feel like Thunal could be setting up to shade me when I was living in an exact world of Vandy W so feel like I’m obviously not partnered with him, plus in general it just looks like she’s setting up to say a lot of people look worse if Vandy is a wolf which feels like a potentially wolfy POE opening.

    Conclusion - In general I find Thunal’s treatment of Vandy iffy. She shifts momentum against Vandy right when thread state is moving against Vandy, and seems to set up a world where a lot of people look worse if Vandy flips wolf at EOD in a way that can be read as expanding the POE.

    Pilica:
    P#2132 feels like Vandy is just the designated elimination, continues to state threadstate feels like SF3 where they chopped a villager EOD.
    P#2355 ISOs Vandy, comes out with a wolfread and ends up supporting the wagon.


    Conclusion - Very very very minor not W/W points for Pilica’s treatment of Vandy EOD. I think the progression of “threadstate feels like SF3” to joining the Vandy wolf read feels natural/lacking agenda, but not enough to call it particularly clearing.


    Looks Best:
    HolyFlare
    Hornet

    Looks Decent:
    Wiml
    TSF
    Katze

    Looks the Same:
    Boquise
    Pilica

    Looks Worse:
    Thunal
    Soneji
    Gorf
    Finally got through everyone’s SOD work, many many hours later.

    @alexa boss, your notes on p#1161 and p#1501 are good spicy. For a wolf that TMI’d his partners last game, I feasibly would see him finding difficult to enunciate why someone he knows is a wolf to be a villager, right (fact check me on that thought)? Assuming that premise is correct…

    Cross check with my work p#2985. Where he slips that pair down. Just that once.

    I feel like this is big?

  9. ISO #3109
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Season 8 Finale! [The Mafia Championship] Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 Thunal33 katze (49), Soneji (22), Boquise (37)
    2 The Sun Fan Holyflare (52), alexa (48)
    2 Wiml vanity. (39), Pilica (18)
    2 Pilica The Sun Fan (60), Gorf (59)
    4 Not voting Thunal33 (32), Wiml (24), Hornet (14), JohnCarter (42)

    View Vote History

    End day at majority is enabled. With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

    Day 2 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021. There are 1634076060000 remaining.

  10. ISO #3110
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3107)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3102)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3094)
    Yes. Really. You came in at the final hour and your content is so easy to fake if you have tmi that your partner vandy is a sinking ship. I agree with the people who said your readslist is not good (I’ll have to read into your D1 analysis post to really run with this), but even so that was posted after TSF said this. What should TSF see in your D1 play that should lead him to having a stronger read, one way or the other?
    "Pilica comes in D1, first tries to push a narrative that Vandy is another Levi. Maybe in a try to make people afraid of yet another D1 chop that was fully agreed on by town. Seeing that this didn't do anything he decided to instead go the bussing route and came out with a maf read on the iso. After that she didn't do much anymore, just life timing and interacting not all to seriously while throwing more shade onto Vandy."

    Here. Simple. That's a better reasoning for wolf reading me than what TSF gives. Easily made a narrative using the fact I had like no context and therefore there wasn't much that I COULD do.
    Honestly I think I might wolfread something like that coming from TSF more than the nothing he said. Why is what he presented wolfy?
    But that would be more accurate, lol. I have like 0 pride in my town game even though I'm trying now. I actually felt insulted when alexa said that my solving I did EoD1 is better than my wolf solving. I know I post wolfy. I know I always have countless of things as town that make me an easy mislim which is why I am basically always mislimed when I'm town. It is one of the easiest things to paint me as wolf even with what little you guys had before. TSF knows my wolf game. I literally told him last game that I wouldn't try saving a sinking ship. He could literally go there and quote our exchange and put it as a reason but he doesn't. It just doesn't sit well with me and rn he's dwindling down the more I read. Because in the very SAME exchange he claimed that he thinks everyone is saveable which he tried with me in SF3. This EoD I had the feeling he was holding back and something tells me that is exactly why. I lowkey would love us 3 SF3 wolves to be all town now and working together from the other side of the coin but he's making it hard. It's just the easiest way out. "She has to be there." Are you seriously telling me that is towny from him?

  11. ISO #3111
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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  12. ISO #3112
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#3105)
    i don’t think pilica putting hornet in the bottom of their list is wolfy

    and just personally, i don’t read too strongly into the tsf cw that came up because i like. sorta doubt that wolves would actually think that would be a viable method to saving vandy.

    need to get out of bed and somehow find something to eat and then i’ll iso wiml. sorry if i missed you explicitly saying you weren’t going to think out loud but i won’t lie and say that wasn’t influencing my read somewhat. i just really hope i can see what others are seeing by the time i’m done evaluating your iso.
    Exactly. Pilica putting Hornet at the bottom is not wolfy. The fact that they are now arguing how easy it would be for them to push Hornet (thus contradicting me) makes me think even more that Pilica is town. Because I am giving them cover and stuff tbh

    It is just a weird approach to take as a wolf

  13. ISO #3113
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#3108)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2630)
    vandy spew stuff


    Some notes on how Vandy treats partners from Pokemon Mash/SF2 - generally will townread them if they’re being townread but not out of the blue - can sometimes specifically focus on them a fair but (such as with celtic in SF2), not a huge busser

    Hornet therefore comes off looking really good. HF is also just hard town for starting the initial push on Vandy anyway.

    P#148 feels like a decent-ish look for Wiml - Vandy is trying to discredit Wiml right away
    P#208 also feels unpartnered with Boq (in addition to how Boq acted in response)
    P#411 is kinda meh for TSF. I mentioned this before, but it’s like the type of TMI read that could make Vandy/TSF W/W, because Vandy is townreading me for voting TSF, even though realistically a vote shouldn’t say anything about my alignment without knowing TSF’s.
    P#449 is a decent look for TSF though, feels pockety
    P#1157 is kinda weird that Vandy specifically points out that Thunal’s read on him was weird when multiple people made the read that Vandy was towny for his approach to buckets, so a (-) point against Thunal, and P#1159 is kinda flailing his way out of it - then it’s weird Vandy still sticks Thunal top of reads in P#1240
    P#1161 is kind of iffy for Soneji, the read is kind of both specific and not thought-out, like I’m not really following the logic in it but it’s almost like he’s forcing himself to come to a conclusion (but notably, it’s definitely not Soneji/Wiml pair from this)
    P#1199 just straight up spewing Hornet town
    P#1240 Vandy builds worlds/accepts katze as a confirmed villager at this point which I think is a good look for katze
    P#1267 is probably enough to negate the earlier potential TMI bit between TSF/Vandy, because Vandy calls my progression on TSF good when i end up townreading TSF.
    P#1334 is interesting. First thought is just that it means there’s not scum there, but it also could be TMI so i guess it just winds into null. More posting this to see what other people think or if it could indicate anything.
    P#1501 could definitely be partnered with Soneji, the way he defends him here is kinda awkward
    P#1529 + for Hornet

    At this point i’d kinda regard Vandy as moving more into anti-spew and treat his posts less seriously.

    Looks good from Vandy spew: HF, Hornet, Wiml, katze(?), TSF(?)
    Looks worse from Vandy spew: Soneji, Thunal



    how people treated vandy

    How I’d expect wolves to treat Vandy: Kinda depends if Vandy is RBer or not, assuming now I would expect them to kind of go with thread temperature - which would mean switching/shifting into a bus when the thread temperature after vanity/Wisdom cleared themselves but townreading him early. If he’s RB i would expect more protection, but going to assume the former is the scenario.

    Hornet:
    P#1308 is really side-eyeing Vandy. P#1315 votes him. P#1316 emotional about it, feels like Vandy is ignoring his solving to nitpick and misrepresent him. P#1322 getting generally very frustrated over that, probes me P#1326 on what I think about Vandy misrepping him. P#1352 Vandy is his main confident scumspect. P#2278 expresses some concerns on stagnant wagon. P#2487 thinks Vandy is a wolf but EOD is making him nervous.

    Conclusion: Hornet pushed on Vandy from early after I pretty intense emotional exchange and still tried to engage with him and expressed doubt EOD in a way that showed a clear lack of TMI. Hornet is extremely unlikely to be partnered/to have bussed Vandy.

    HF:
    P#390 first vote on Vandy. P#496 explains Vandy read and how he finds Vandy different from quals. I give HF points for really shifting the momentum against Vandy. P#1151 wants Thunal to rethink her Vandy townread. P#1209 presents him with some really probing questions that look like he’s trying to engage/solve him. P#1229 moved Vandy above TSF and Wiml. P#1348 still dislikes Vandy’s this is outing comment however. P#1362 starts to go into some Vandy meta. P#1641 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#1820 still probing Vandy. P#2231 still finding Vandy’s reads wolfy.

    Conclusion: HF started the push against Vandy and still represented a very consistent desire to engage with Vandy, read was not stagnant at all, HF is very unlikely to have bussed Vandy.

    TSF:
    P#63 is almost positive Vandy is town. P#79 reiterates it, says he’s unlikely to change his Vandy read today. Continues to defend Vandy as the momentum shifts against him slightly, P#561. P#1058 is going to dive into Vandy’s SF game, and wants people to sheep his read on Vandy based on what he comes out with. P#1116 ends up saying he still thinks Vandy is town but is not as certain as he thought after reading Vandy’s semis game. (I think this in general is a very villagery approach to Vandy and looks like he’s actually trying to solve Vandy’s alignment). P#1139 still thinks Vandy’s town, isn’t going to change his mind. But P#1436 does call something about the way Vandy talks as slightly wolfy. P#1457 still has Vandy high in his reads however. P#1733 still strongly townreading Vandy. P#2587 “Vandy please be a villager.”

    Conclusion: TSF’s treatment of Vandy is decent. He pretty consistently has him as town, but seems to at least minorly re-val Vandy at some point. I think as a wolf he doesn’t really have a need to defend Vandy the way he did, but I wouldn’t completely outrule that he takes the approach to show internal consistently. Slightly unlikely to be paired with Vandy.

    Soneji:
    P#696 outs a slight townlean on tone on Vandy, says certain posts are a good look for Vandy. P#859 hedges slightly on the Vandy read, but still calls it towny. P#1649 finds Thunal’s treatment of Vandy partnered in general, would move Thunal to a strong wolf read if Vandy flips wolf. P#1695 says the Vandy wagon is fine but votes elsewhere.

    Conclusion: There’s nothing distinctly unpairing Vandy/Soneji, and even could argue if Thunal’s V, Soneji kind of sets up after realizing Vandy is dying that day.

    Katze:
    P#323 kind of aggressive with Vandy in immediate interaction. P#327 ends up outing a V read on Vandy. P#584, continues to say Vandy looks better than SF2. P#1061 has Vandy in list of village-leans. P#1084 hedges slightly on Vandy read but explains why she still likes him. P#1263 Katze expresses confusion on Vandy agreeing with Hornet’s take with JC. P#1378 Katze’s read on Vandy shifts pretty dramatically (there is some slight buildup i suppose but i would tinfoil this as being a potential ‘w/w where katze changed her read on Vandy once thread temperature shifted against him’). I do kinda stand by the sort of aggressive way katze’s treating Vandy as unpartnered outside of that and it’s why I’d marked it that way on my chart. P#1720 sticks up for Vandy wagon when it’s tied with TSF which I’d give slight town points to.
    P#2469 feels like Thunal could be a wolf TMIing Vandy/Hornet V/V - this is pretty good from katze as it distinctly lacks agenda.

    Conclusion: I would slightly tinfoil here as my original theory about how wolves would treat Vandy could apply to katze in the way she shifts her Vandy read when momentum turns against Vandy, but I think as a whole her treatment of Vandy is slightly unpartnered.

    Gorf:
    P#410 Gorf is null on Vandy right away and thinks the bucket stance is NAI. Consistently has Vandy low on reads’ list. P#545 similar take to me on Vandy not being villagery for bucket stance. P#1160 questions Vandy on why people townreading him over something NAI didn’t bother him earlier. P#1562 calls out some wolf saltyness from Vandy. P#1788 repeats a comment is a bad look for Vandy. P#2496 really thinks Vandy is a hit.

    Conclusion - I think Gorf is probably on the higher likelihood of being a buss candidate. He seems to not really waver on his Vandy read and doesn’t have many direct interactions with Vandy, but pushes it without expressing doubt even as others’ wavered EOD. I give him some points for having a similar early view to me on the bucket thing from Vandy not being towny, but there’s nothing really stopping this from being a buss.

    Wiml:
    P#40 “Vandy you’ve pocketed me again.” Awkward could be W/W. P#69 reiterates village read. P#260 compares Vandy to SF2 (as a townread). Continuing to want to look for something clearing for Vandy to towncase him. P#371 calls a post hard town for Vandy. P#388 repeats how towny Vandy has been. P#617 says Vandy doesn’t have a wolf motivation for pushing bucket but also mentions that he’s overwhelmed by Vandy’s other posting indicating the point in which his read trends down a bit. P#618 still townreads Vandy though due to his entrance - slight tinfoil of this being planned? P#622 still towncasing Vandy. P#876 takes Vandy out of top villagers but says he tentatively may be there. P#1644 trying to engage with Vandy, ‘doesn’t quite want to give up on finding him if he’s a villager.’ P#1724 wanting to flip this over TSF despite Wiml’s earlier read on Vandy is slight town points if TSF is V. P#1745 dislikes Vandy’s lack of response to his attempt to engage, follows up on the question. P#2116 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#2118 really wants Vandy to give him something to work with.

    Conclusion - Initial thought is that Wiml towncasing Vandy (especially after SF2) is very partnery behavior, however, I think the way Wiml’s read on Vandy progressed throughout the day in addition to the way Wiml was trying to engage with Vandy at EOD is less partnered. I think in all he’s unlikely to be with Vandy.

    Boq:
    If P#40 isn’t w/w, P#50 could potentially be Boq setting up on Wiml (don’t think this is ever W/W/W with Vandy/Boq/Wiml though)
    P#573 Boq townreads Vandy for shading him. P#703 reiterates it. P#1534 doesn’t think Vandy’s questioning of hornet is bad. P#1672 nothing strikingly scummy in Vandy ISO. P#1804 votes Vandy as he’s more likely to be able to solve TSF the next day.

    Conclusion - Nothing really stopping Boq from being W/W with Vandy. His treatment of Vandy is fine but nothing particularly clearing.

    Thunal:
    P#223 has Vandy slightly below null, considering it a “wait and see” read. In P#250 ends up feeling better about Vandy and TRing him. P#340 discussing how she approaches her Vandy notes with me and how he is as town/mafia early. P#817, still has Vandy at top of reads’ list. P#1107 still has Vandy as strongly town. P#1150 is still fairly confident Vandy is town. P#1184 mentions that she’s reading Vandy’s SF2 and agrees with TSF that it’s not the slamdunk she thought it was. P#1370 waffles on the Vandy V read, isn’t as comfortable with him but also feels like he’s an easy answer. P#1572 ends up shifting and voting Vandy. P#1394 wants Vandy over Pilica, P#1986 thinks it’s possible Vandy is a wolf for not posting.
    P#2053 is uhhh, kind of weird. Want to see how it manifests but I kinda feel like Thunal could be setting up to shade me when I was living in an exact world of Vandy W so feel like I’m obviously not partnered with him, plus in general it just looks like she’s setting up to say a lot of people look worse if Vandy is a wolf which feels like a potentially wolfy POE opening.

    Conclusion - In general I find Thunal’s treatment of Vandy iffy. She shifts momentum against Vandy right when thread state is moving against Vandy, and seems to set up a world where a lot of people look worse if Vandy flips wolf at EOD in a way that can be read as expanding the POE.

    Pilica:
    P#2132 feels like Vandy is just the designated elimination, continues to state threadstate feels like SF3 where they chopped a villager EOD.
    P#2355 ISOs Vandy, comes out with a wolfread and ends up supporting the wagon.


    Conclusion - Very very very minor not W/W points for Pilica’s treatment of Vandy EOD. I think the progression of “threadstate feels like SF3” to joining the Vandy wolf read feels natural/lacking agenda, but not enough to call it particularly clearing.


    Looks Best:
    HolyFlare
    Hornet

    Looks Decent:
    Wiml
    TSF
    Katze

    Looks the Same:
    Boquise
    Pilica

    Looks Worse:
    Thunal
    Soneji
    Gorf
    Finally got through everyone’s SOD work, many many hours later.

    @alexa boss, your notes on p#1161 and p#1501 are good spicy. For a wolf that TMI’d his partners last game, I feasibly would see him finding difficult to enunciate why someone he knows is a wolf to be a villager, right (fact check me on that thought)? Assuming that premise is correct…

    Cross check with my work p#2985. Where he slips that pair down. Just that once.

    I feel like this is big?
    @vanity. @Wiml hellooooo we haven’t talked in a while

    Can you please fact check above with Alexa and I. It’ll require a few mins of reading but tl;dr, Vandy word salads his town read that way twice then as I outline in p#2985, is forced to wolf read that way, only to back out if it.

    Is that just not exactly how you’d expect a wolf who was just (SF2) caught by TMI to act? Like you’re not going to go from calling partners lock wolves to calling them lock villagers in one forum game? And he was under pressure where I outline in 2985…

  14. ISO #3114
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Also whilst I understand that there is nothing "definitely clearing" on me through Vandy, it is still annoying. I did have my post 50 sus of him and Wiml. And I think my approach later was townie. Vandy and I had a convo where I said I thought it was a slightly townie reaction, but I stayed on him despite the thread being chaotic and even though I was busy multitasking at a party, I think there were opportunities where I could have changed my vote.

    But I stayed for the simple reason that my town reads were townier than him tbh. It is kinda simple. Like I understand the sus/paranoia but I don't think my handling of Vandy or starting a counter-wagon on TSF were bad tbh

  15. ISO #3115
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3098)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3080)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#3078)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3048)
    Sure thing!

    2 prs
    katze
    Boquise
    Holyflare
    Gorf
    Thunal33
    The Sun Fan
    alexa
    Soneji
    Hornet
    Wiml

    Something like that. I skimmed a bit and would have to iso people but that's mny current state of mind
    Bold are names that I think are overwhelmingly likely to be villagers.

    I really don't like this list.

    Pilica please explain Boquise and Hornet.
    Lol at bolding yourself

    Boquise is there because he feels to me like his town self. Haven't read anything that pinged me. Feels good having there. So there's that.

    Hornet I kinda wanna put higher for posts but I don't feel good doing that. Something does keep me from it and I'm listening to my gut. The treatment Vandy gave Hornet doesn't help either.
    Why would wolf!Pilica keep Hornet in the bottom poe after wolf!Vandy got completely sunk for pressuring Hornet?
    That's just dumb wolf suicide. I get why Vandy would do it since he wasn't aware, but another wolf starting to do the same thing?



    Also yo, I have only skimmed.
    @JohnCarter I will give more nuance thoughts on Pilica after I have read their ISO. Though this post is also about them so thought you'd like to be tagged in it too
    Swag. I guess it’d be appreciated but I asked because we were all in a bit of a funk that way and this’ll be less-so with her presence

    FWIW i’m just at “Pilica is just a villager right?” and agree here with ya on the Hornet thing - is just incredibly baffling if Pilica is a wolf with Vandy

  16. ISO #3116
    Soul Reader Gorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3110)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3107)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3102)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#3094)
    Yes. Really. You came in at the final hour and your content is so easy to fake if you have tmi that your partner vandy is a sinking ship. I agree with the people who said your readslist is not good (I’ll have to read into your D1 analysis post to really run with this), but even so that was posted after TSF said this. What should TSF see in your D1 play that should lead him to having a stronger read, one way or the other?
    "Pilica comes in D1, first tries to push a narrative that Vandy is another Levi. Maybe in a try to make people afraid of yet another D1 chop that was fully agreed on by town. Seeing that this didn't do anything he decided to instead go the bussing route and came out with a maf read on the iso. After that she didn't do much anymore, just life timing and interacting not all to seriously while throwing more shade onto Vandy."

    Here. Simple. That's a better reasoning for wolf reading me than what TSF gives. Easily made a narrative using the fact I had like no context and therefore there wasn't much that I COULD do.
    Honestly I think I might wolfread something like that coming from TSF more than the nothing he said. Why is what he presented wolfy?
    But that would be more accurate, lol. I have like 0 pride in my town game even though I'm trying now. I actually felt insulted when alexa said that my solving I did EoD1 is better than my wolf solving. I know I post wolfy. I know I always have countless of things as town that make me an easy mislim which is why I am basically always mislimed when I'm town. It is one of the easiest things to paint me as wolf even with what little you guys had before. TSF knows my wolf game. I literally told him last game that I wouldn't try saving a sinking ship. He could literally go there and quote our exchange and put it as a reason but he doesn't. It just doesn't sit well with me and rn he's dwindling down the more I read. Because in the very SAME exchange he claimed that he thinks everyone is saveable which he tried with me in SF3. This EoD I had the feeling he was holding back and something tells me that is exactly why. I lowkey would love us 3 SF3 wolves to be all town now and working together from the other side of the coin but he's making it hard. It's just the easiest way out. "She has to be there." Are you seriously telling me that is towny from him?
    I’m not saying it’s towny from him. I’m saying it’s a pretty logical conclusion for him to reach given the worldview he’s projected in this game, whether he’s a villager or a wolf. He’s firmly in my poe.

    I can better see where you’re coming from with this tho

    ##Unvote Pilica

  17. ISO #3117
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Yeah Pilica is a villager I think

    FYI I was not aware that it was you (JC) and Wisdom who started the "maybe Pilica is a wolf" storyline at eod, but then it is interesting if anyone bit on that thought. Do you remember if anyone did that? I was worried that people would zomg scum read Pilica because of newness and stray away from Vandy. Thats why I wrote posts like reacting to Gorf saying Vandy is a hit, saying I wont change my vote and stuff tbh

  18. ISO #3118
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3117)
    Yeah Pilica is a villager I think

    FYI I was not aware that it was you (JC) and Wisdom who started the "maybe Pilica is a wolf" storyline at eod, but then it is interesting if anyone bit on that thought. Do you remember if anyone did that? I was worried that people would zomg scum read Pilica because of newness and stray away from Vandy. Thats why I wrote posts like reacting to Gorf saying Vandy is a hit, saying I wont change my vote and stuff tbh
    No one bit.

    Tried to stir up the same with Gorf, Soneji and yourself (as you’re well aware - sorry fellas but it’s better if I get a bit dirty in an otherwise pre-determined EOD).

    The only bite I got to anything was exactly TSF on you, and only when prompted by me. So…? Wolves knew exactly Vandy was going over and had exactly 0 desire to even indulge any of my worlds with words.

  19. ISO #3119
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#3113)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#3108)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2630)
    vandy spew stuff


    Some notes on how Vandy treats partners from Pokemon Mash/SF2 - generally will townread them if they’re being townread but not out of the blue - can sometimes specifically focus on them a fair but (such as with celtic in SF2), not a huge busser

    Hornet therefore comes off looking really good. HF is also just hard town for starting the initial push on Vandy anyway.

    P#148 feels like a decent-ish look for Wiml - Vandy is trying to discredit Wiml right away
    P#208 also feels unpartnered with Boq (in addition to how Boq acted in response)
    P#411 is kinda meh for TSF. I mentioned this before, but it’s like the type of TMI read that could make Vandy/TSF W/W, because Vandy is townreading me for voting TSF, even though realistically a vote shouldn’t say anything about my alignment without knowing TSF’s.
    P#449 is a decent look for TSF though, feels pockety
    P#1157 is kinda weird that Vandy specifically points out that Thunal’s read on him was weird when multiple people made the read that Vandy was towny for his approach to buckets, so a (-) point against Thunal, and P#1159 is kinda flailing his way out of it - then it’s weird Vandy still sticks Thunal top of reads in P#1240
    P#1161 is kind of iffy for Soneji, the read is kind of both specific and not thought-out, like I’m not really following the logic in it but it’s almost like he’s forcing himself to come to a conclusion (but notably, it’s definitely not Soneji/Wiml pair from this)
    P#1199 just straight up spewing Hornet town
    P#1240 Vandy builds worlds/accepts katze as a confirmed villager at this point which I think is a good look for katze
    P#1267 is probably enough to negate the earlier potential TMI bit between TSF/Vandy, because Vandy calls my progression on TSF good when i end up townreading TSF.
    P#1334 is interesting. First thought is just that it means there’s not scum there, but it also could be TMI so i guess it just winds into null. More posting this to see what other people think or if it could indicate anything.
    P#1501 could definitely be partnered with Soneji, the way he defends him here is kinda awkward
    P#1529 + for Hornet

    At this point i’d kinda regard Vandy as moving more into anti-spew and treat his posts less seriously.

    Looks good from Vandy spew: HF, Hornet, Wiml, katze(?), TSF(?)
    Looks worse from Vandy spew: Soneji, Thunal



    how people treated vandy

    How I’d expect wolves to treat Vandy: Kinda depends if Vandy is RBer or not, assuming now I would expect them to kind of go with thread temperature - which would mean switching/shifting into a bus when the thread temperature after vanity/Wisdom cleared themselves but townreading him early. If he’s RB i would expect more protection, but going to assume the former is the scenario.

    Hornet:
    P#1308 is really side-eyeing Vandy. P#1315 votes him. P#1316 emotional about it, feels like Vandy is ignoring his solving to nitpick and misrepresent him. P#1322 getting generally very frustrated over that, probes me P#1326 on what I think about Vandy misrepping him. P#1352 Vandy is his main confident scumspect. P#2278 expresses some concerns on stagnant wagon. P#2487 thinks Vandy is a wolf but EOD is making him nervous.

    Conclusion: Hornet pushed on Vandy from early after I pretty intense emotional exchange and still tried to engage with him and expressed doubt EOD in a way that showed a clear lack of TMI. Hornet is extremely unlikely to be partnered/to have bussed Vandy.

    HF:
    P#390 first vote on Vandy. P#496 explains Vandy read and how he finds Vandy different from quals. I give HF points for really shifting the momentum against Vandy. P#1151 wants Thunal to rethink her Vandy townread. P#1209 presents him with some really probing questions that look like he’s trying to engage/solve him. P#1229 moved Vandy above TSF and Wiml. P#1348 still dislikes Vandy’s this is outing comment however. P#1362 starts to go into some Vandy meta. P#1641 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#1820 still probing Vandy. P#2231 still finding Vandy’s reads wolfy.

    Conclusion: HF started the push against Vandy and still represented a very consistent desire to engage with Vandy, read was not stagnant at all, HF is very unlikely to have bussed Vandy.

    TSF:
    P#63 is almost positive Vandy is town. P#79 reiterates it, says he’s unlikely to change his Vandy read today. Continues to defend Vandy as the momentum shifts against him slightly, P#561. P#1058 is going to dive into Vandy’s SF game, and wants people to sheep his read on Vandy based on what he comes out with. P#1116 ends up saying he still thinks Vandy is town but is not as certain as he thought after reading Vandy’s semis game. (I think this in general is a very villagery approach to Vandy and looks like he’s actually trying to solve Vandy’s alignment). P#1139 still thinks Vandy’s town, isn’t going to change his mind. But P#1436 does call something about the way Vandy talks as slightly wolfy. P#1457 still has Vandy high in his reads however. P#1733 still strongly townreading Vandy. P#2587 “Vandy please be a villager.”

    Conclusion: TSF’s treatment of Vandy is decent. He pretty consistently has him as town, but seems to at least minorly re-val Vandy at some point. I think as a wolf he doesn’t really have a need to defend Vandy the way he did, but I wouldn’t completely outrule that he takes the approach to show internal consistently. Slightly unlikely to be paired with Vandy.

    Soneji:
    P#696 outs a slight townlean on tone on Vandy, says certain posts are a good look for Vandy. P#859 hedges slightly on the Vandy read, but still calls it towny. P#1649 finds Thunal’s treatment of Vandy partnered in general, would move Thunal to a strong wolf read if Vandy flips wolf. P#1695 says the Vandy wagon is fine but votes elsewhere.

    Conclusion: There’s nothing distinctly unpairing Vandy/Soneji, and even could argue if Thunal’s V, Soneji kind of sets up after realizing Vandy is dying that day.

    Katze:
    P#323 kind of aggressive with Vandy in immediate interaction. P#327 ends up outing a V read on Vandy. P#584, continues to say Vandy looks better than SF2. P#1061 has Vandy in list of village-leans. P#1084 hedges slightly on Vandy read but explains why she still likes him. P#1263 Katze expresses confusion on Vandy agreeing with Hornet’s take with JC. P#1378 Katze’s read on Vandy shifts pretty dramatically (there is some slight buildup i suppose but i would tinfoil this as being a potential ‘w/w where katze changed her read on Vandy once thread temperature shifted against him’). I do kinda stand by the sort of aggressive way katze’s treating Vandy as unpartnered outside of that and it’s why I’d marked it that way on my chart. P#1720 sticks up for Vandy wagon when it’s tied with TSF which I’d give slight town points to.
    P#2469 feels like Thunal could be a wolf TMIing Vandy/Hornet V/V - this is pretty good from katze as it distinctly lacks agenda.

    Conclusion: I would slightly tinfoil here as my original theory about how wolves would treat Vandy could apply to katze in the way she shifts her Vandy read when momentum turns against Vandy, but I think as a whole her treatment of Vandy is slightly unpartnered.

    Gorf:
    P#410 Gorf is null on Vandy right away and thinks the bucket stance is NAI. Consistently has Vandy low on reads’ list. P#545 similar take to me on Vandy not being villagery for bucket stance. P#1160 questions Vandy on why people townreading him over something NAI didn’t bother him earlier. P#1562 calls out some wolf saltyness from Vandy. P#1788 repeats a comment is a bad look for Vandy. P#2496 really thinks Vandy is a hit.

    Conclusion - I think Gorf is probably on the higher likelihood of being a buss candidate. He seems to not really waver on his Vandy read and doesn’t have many direct interactions with Vandy, but pushes it without expressing doubt even as others’ wavered EOD. I give him some points for having a similar early view to me on the bucket thing from Vandy not being towny, but there’s nothing really stopping this from being a buss.

    Wiml:
    P#40 “Vandy you’ve pocketed me again.” Awkward could be W/W. P#69 reiterates village read. P#260 compares Vandy to SF2 (as a townread). Continuing to want to look for something clearing for Vandy to towncase him. P#371 calls a post hard town for Vandy. P#388 repeats how towny Vandy has been. P#617 says Vandy doesn’t have a wolf motivation for pushing bucket but also mentions that he’s overwhelmed by Vandy’s other posting indicating the point in which his read trends down a bit. P#618 still townreads Vandy though due to his entrance - slight tinfoil of this being planned? P#622 still towncasing Vandy. P#876 takes Vandy out of top villagers but says he tentatively may be there. P#1644 trying to engage with Vandy, ‘doesn’t quite want to give up on finding him if he’s a villager.’ P#1724 wanting to flip this over TSF despite Wiml’s earlier read on Vandy is slight town points if TSF is V. P#1745 dislikes Vandy’s lack of response to his attempt to engage, follows up on the question. P#2116 still trying to engage with Vandy. P#2118 really wants Vandy to give him something to work with.

    Conclusion - Initial thought is that Wiml towncasing Vandy (especially after SF2) is very partnery behavior, however, I think the way Wiml’s read on Vandy progressed throughout the day in addition to the way Wiml was trying to engage with Vandy at EOD is less partnered. I think in all he’s unlikely to be with Vandy.

    Boq:
    If P#40 isn’t w/w, P#50 could potentially be Boq setting up on Wiml (don’t think this is ever W/W/W with Vandy/Boq/Wiml though)
    P#573 Boq townreads Vandy for shading him. P#703 reiterates it. P#1534 doesn’t think Vandy’s questioning of hornet is bad. P#1672 nothing strikingly scummy in Vandy ISO. P#1804 votes Vandy as he’s more likely to be able to solve TSF the next day.

    Conclusion - Nothing really stopping Boq from being W/W with Vandy. His treatment of Vandy is fine but nothing particularly clearing.

    Thunal:
    P#223 has Vandy slightly below null, considering it a “wait and see” read. In P#250 ends up feeling better about Vandy and TRing him. P#340 discussing how she approaches her Vandy notes with me and how he is as town/mafia early. P#817, still has Vandy at top of reads’ list. P#1107 still has Vandy as strongly town. P#1150 is still fairly confident Vandy is town. P#1184 mentions that she’s reading Vandy’s SF2 and agrees with TSF that it’s not the slamdunk she thought it was. P#1370 waffles on the Vandy V read, isn’t as comfortable with him but also feels like he’s an easy answer. P#1572 ends up shifting and voting Vandy. P#1394 wants Vandy over Pilica, P#1986 thinks it’s possible Vandy is a wolf for not posting.
    P#2053 is uhhh, kind of weird. Want to see how it manifests but I kinda feel like Thunal could be setting up to shade me when I was living in an exact world of Vandy W so feel like I’m obviously not partnered with him, plus in general it just looks like she’s setting up to say a lot of people look worse if Vandy is a wolf which feels like a potentially wolfy POE opening.

    Conclusion - In general I find Thunal’s treatment of Vandy iffy. She shifts momentum against Vandy right when thread state is moving against Vandy, and seems to set up a world where a lot of people look worse if Vandy flips wolf at EOD in a way that can be read as expanding the POE.

    Pilica:
    P#2132 feels like Vandy is just the designated elimination, continues to state threadstate feels like SF3 where they chopped a villager EOD.
    P#2355 ISOs Vandy, comes out with a wolfread and ends up supporting the wagon.


    Conclusion - Very very very minor not W/W points for Pilica’s treatment of Vandy EOD. I think the progression of “threadstate feels like SF3” to joining the Vandy wolf read feels natural/lacking agenda, but not enough to call it particularly clearing.


    Looks Best:
    HolyFlare
    Hornet

    Looks Decent:
    Wiml
    TSF
    Katze

    Looks the Same:
    Boquise
    Pilica

    Looks Worse:
    Thunal
    Soneji
    Gorf
    Finally got through everyone’s SOD work, many many hours later.

    @alexa boss, your notes on p#1161 and p#1501 are good spicy. For a wolf that TMI’d his partners last game, I feasibly would see him finding difficult to enunciate why someone he knows is a wolf to be a villager, right (fact check me on that thought)? Assuming that premise is correct…

    Cross check with my work p#2985. Where he slips that pair down. Just that once.

    I feel like this is big?
    @vanity. @Wiml hellooooo we haven’t talked in a while

    Can you please fact check above with Alexa and I. It’ll require a few mins of reading but tl;dr, Vandy word salads his town read that way twice then as I outline in p#2985, is forced to wolf read that way, only to back out if it.

    Is that just not exactly how you’d expect a wolf who was just (SF2) caught by TMI to act? Like you’re not going to go from calling partners lock wolves to calling them lock villagers in one forum game? And he was under pressure where I outline in 2985…
    i think that might’ve been why i was scratching my head at vandy’s read on soneji. i found it stilted in general and maybe calling it “word salad” is more accurate.

    i think it’s somewhat partner indicative i guess? i somewhat already gave that stance, but i’m hesitant to use it as a predominant way of wolfreading soneji for reasons i alluded to earlier wrt only really accepting hornet v as my main spew read

  20. ISO #3120
    Automatic Game Mod Mafia Host's Avatar
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    Season 8 Finale! [The Mafia Championship] Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    3 Thunal33 katze (49), Soneji (22), Boquise (40)
    2 The Sun Fan Holyflare (53), alexa (48)
    2 Wiml vanity. (40), Pilica (19)
    1 Pilica The Sun Fan (60)
    5 Not voting Thunal33 (32), Wiml (24), Hornet (14), JohnCarter (45), Gorf (60)

    View Vote History

    End day at majority is enabled. With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

    Day 2 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021. There are 1634076060000 remaining.

  21. ISO #3121
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#2867)
    JC, I'll get to my TSF thoughts later but it's pretty much all I've been saying most of the game + his eod basically was him just doing nothing until vandy counter wagons appeared, at which point he was fine to meekly hop on there. I would think in SF3 he was attempting to emulate his town game by defending levi and as town in this game would have been fine to do it again but rolling mafia makes him hesitate.

    I think I remember there even being an insane amount of little manipulative asides put into his eod posts pre-empting the vandy flip with distancing with little things like "I really hope I'm wrong!" or "Woe is me, I'll look sooooo bad if Vandy flips mafia!"
    Tbh reading these posts in real time I was like "These are almost 1:1 the posts he wrote in SF3 EoD1 with Levi just that he never said that he'll look bad if Levi flips mafia afair but instead was just death certain showing his TMI blatantly.". Like I feel like his I hope I'm wrong IS showing TMI in a way to already start a defense for being mafread for beliving into Vandy town. As well as that he was more hesitant to than both defending a 'tr' and defending a 'buddy'. He really felt like he was holding himself back.

  22. ISO #3122
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2984)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2983)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2982)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2981)
    (no I didn't go through katze's big post)
    both ends of the soneji/vandy interactions are among the shortest reads

    (you should totally read the whole post anyway but i dont think theres any real excuse to not at least check the soneji spoilers and see how you feel about the posts individually)
    I'm gonna get my own impressions first, though your work before I touch it is definitely appreciated. Hopefully that doesn't sound too hollow because I do mean it.
    I think I saw that you don't think gorf looks very good, for example, which is something I disagree with
    i specifically think vandys interactions with gorf were iffy but the opposite was better

    but i just meant look at the posts i provided, you can ignore my comments altogether i just think i picked out most of the posts that matter

    but obviously i mighta missed something i'm not telling you to just not do your own work i absolutely rushed towards the end




    @Thunal33 can you reply to P#2979 whenever you see this, thanks
    I was in bed and I just started to catch up, right now my list looks like:

    vanity
    JC

    Hornet
    alexa
    holyflare

    Katze

    Gorf
    Pilica

    Wiml
    TSF
    Boq
    Soneji

  23. ISO #3123
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#3118)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3117)
    Yeah Pilica is a villager I think

    FYI I was not aware that it was you (JC) and Wisdom who started the "maybe Pilica is a wolf" storyline at eod, but then it is interesting if anyone bit on that thought. Do you remember if anyone did that? I was worried that people would zomg scum read Pilica because of newness and stray away from Vandy. Thats why I wrote posts like reacting to Gorf saying Vandy is a hit, saying I wont change my vote and stuff tbh
    No one bit.

    Tried to stir up the same with Gorf, Soneji and yourself (as you’re well aware - sorry fellas but it’s better if I get a bit dirty in an otherwise pre-determined EOD).

    The only bite I got to anything was exactly TSF on you, and only when prompted by me. So…? Wolves knew exactly Vandy was going over and had exactly 0 desire to even indulge any of my worlds with words.
    Alright, thats cool

    What do you think of TSF's explanation to his vote switch?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2744)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2726)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2719)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2696)
    I voted Vandy because my town core was tight and I felt better on him than on TSF tbh
    you kept saying you thought you could solve me better and I don't know if you ever answered my question on why you thought that yesterday
    apologies if you did
    I didnt see that question tbh sorry

    I think you wrote more posts with content than Vandy so it would be easier to solve by reading you. At that point I was drunk and writing sneakingly during irl games. So I couldnt read things carefully tbh


    I saw that you explained your votes and whilst I understand your reasoning, it is just off to vote a town read because JC says so. The votes are kinda a dealbreaker for me
    lets say you townread x player
    x player is the lead wagon
    y player is a claimed PR with no real reason to doubt (bucket)
    y player tells you "vote z to save x with me"

    you don't vote z?

    like
    I get the crux of what you're saying but like
    it seems like if you can see not too much further, you could see that my vote for you isn't expressly wolfy
    Also here is my reply to that TSF post. I will hide it under spoiler so it wont affect your thoughts but I want to see if it aligns with that you think:
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2764)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2744)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2726)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2719)
    you kept saying you thought you could solve me better and I don't know if you ever answered my question on why you thought that yesterday
    apologies if you did
    I didnt see that question tbh sorry

    I think you wrote more posts with content than Vandy so it would be easier to solve by reading you. At that point I was drunk and writing sneakingly during irl games. So I couldnt read things carefully tbh


    I saw that you explained your votes and whilst I understand your reasoning, it is just off to vote a town read because JC says so. The votes are kinda a dealbreaker for me
    lets say you townread x player
    x player is the lead wagon
    y player is a claimed PR with no real reason to doubt (bucket)
    y player tells you "vote z to save x with me"

    you don't vote z?

    like
    I get the crux of what you're saying but like
    it seems like if you can see not too much further, you could see that my vote for you isn't expressly wolfy
    just because someone is confirmed town doesnt mean that they are correct on their reads nor that their reads/thoughts are worth more or have a higher chance of being correct tbh

    I think you dont vote your town reads to save x, even if x is also a town read of yours. I think you talk about it and vote somewhere else.
    I think it is wolfy to hide behind "JC told me to do it and he is a confirmed town!" since that relinquishes responsibility tbh

    Like, it would be fair if you did not have a town read on me. I can vote my null reads if my town reads tell me to (and why). But I would not without question vote a town read. Especially if it is the demands from a player who has decided that Z is scum since page 1. Like it took several dead town arguing and convincing me for like a day to shoot LanMisa in bastard mash despite me having a town read on him. Lo and behold, dead town were wrong and LanMisa was town. A shameful display of weakness on my front tbh

    Also I thought you thought that Vandy was going to die either way? So whats up with this saving?
    -------

    I feel pretty proud of myself that I stayed strong on my Vandy vote despite people being chaotic and voting everywhere tbh. Sucks that I dont get credit for it but such is the game tbh

    I will still dab tbh


  24. ISO #3124
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3123)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#3118)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3117)
    Yeah Pilica is a villager I think

    FYI I was not aware that it was you (JC) and Wisdom who started the "maybe Pilica is a wolf" storyline at eod, but then it is interesting if anyone bit on that thought. Do you remember if anyone did that? I was worried that people would zomg scum read Pilica because of newness and stray away from Vandy. Thats why I wrote posts like reacting to Gorf saying Vandy is a hit, saying I wont change my vote and stuff tbh
    No one bit.

    Tried to stir up the same with Gorf, Soneji and yourself (as you’re well aware - sorry fellas but it’s better if I get a bit dirty in an otherwise pre-determined EOD).

    The only bite I got to anything was exactly TSF on you, and only when prompted by me. So…? Wolves knew exactly Vandy was going over and had exactly 0 desire to even indulge any of my worlds with words.
    Alright, thats cool

    What do you think of TSF's explanation to his vote switch?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2744)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2726)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2719)
    you kept saying you thought you could solve me better and I don't know if you ever answered my question on why you thought that yesterday
    apologies if you did
    I didnt see that question tbh sorry

    I think you wrote more posts with content than Vandy so it would be easier to solve by reading you. At that point I was drunk and writing sneakingly during irl games. So I couldnt read things carefully tbh


    I saw that you explained your votes and whilst I understand your reasoning, it is just off to vote a town read because JC says so. The votes are kinda a dealbreaker for me
    lets say you townread x player
    x player is the lead wagon
    y player is a claimed PR with no real reason to doubt (bucket)
    y player tells you "vote z to save x with me"

    you don't vote z?

    like
    I get the crux of what you're saying but like
    it seems like if you can see not too much further, you could see that my vote for you isn't expressly wolfy
    Also here is my reply to that TSF post. I will hide it under spoiler so it wont affect your thoughts but I want to see if it aligns with that you think:
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2764)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2744)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2726)
    I didnt see that question tbh sorry

    I think you wrote more posts with content than Vandy so it would be easier to solve by reading you. At that point I was drunk and writing sneakingly during irl games. So I couldnt read things carefully tbh


    I saw that you explained your votes and whilst I understand your reasoning, it is just off to vote a town read because JC says so. The votes are kinda a dealbreaker for me
    lets say you townread x player
    x player is the lead wagon
    y player is a claimed PR with no real reason to doubt (bucket)
    y player tells you "vote z to save x with me"

    you don't vote z?

    like
    I get the crux of what you're saying but like
    it seems like if you can see not too much further, you could see that my vote for you isn't expressly wolfy
    just because someone is confirmed town doesnt mean that they are correct on their reads nor that their reads/thoughts are worth more or have a higher chance of being correct tbh

    I think you dont vote your town reads to save x, even if x is also a town read of yours. I think you talk about it and vote somewhere else.
    I think it is wolfy to hide behind "JC told me to do it and he is a confirmed town!" since that relinquishes responsibility tbh

    Like, it would be fair if you did not have a town read on me. I can vote my null reads if my town reads tell me to (and why). But I would not without question vote a town read. Especially if it is the demands from a player who has decided that Z is scum since page 1. Like it took several dead town arguing and convincing me for like a day to shoot LanMisa in bastard mash despite me having a town read on him. Lo and behold, dead town were wrong and LanMisa was town. A shameful display of weakness on my front tbh

    Also I thought you thought that Vandy was going to die either way? So whats up with this saving?
    -------

    I feel pretty proud of myself that I stayed strong on my Vandy vote despite people being chaotic and voting everywhere tbh. Sucks that I dont get credit for it but such is the game tbh

    I will still dab tbh

    this is his first explainatory post. Forgot to add it
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2710)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2689)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2502)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2497)
    Wiml/Vandy counterwagons?
    again
    I can't say I'm thrilled

    I'm happier voting for wiml I guess
    ##Vote Wiml
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2505)
    nah I hate it too much
    I hate when people do this but
    ##Vote Boquise
    I think these vote changes are wolfy, especially the one on me. It is made after JC voted me and began shading me again (and iirc other people had expressed shade on me during the eod too). Thread state wise it isnt weird to think a cfd on me is a possibility tbh
    I know

    I voted you initially because JC asked me to, I had you as a villager as well and I wasn't particularly happy to vote you. I think I was on Soneji before then.

    I voted Wiml (also who I was townreading) because I decided I was reading vandy as harder town

    went back to you soon after because the vote on Wiml felt a lot worse to me just in a visceral way; it was not based on any strong feeling

    in any case, I knew vandy was probably dying anyways and that's probably why I didn't love either of them; it couldn't save my townread and it was on two people who I thought were town

  25. ISO #3125
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3122)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2984)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2983)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2982)
    both ends of the soneji/vandy interactions are among the shortest reads

    (you should totally read the whole post anyway but i dont think theres any real excuse to not at least check the soneji spoilers and see how you feel about the posts individually)
    I'm gonna get my own impressions first, though your work before I touch it is definitely appreciated. Hopefully that doesn't sound too hollow because I do mean it.
    I think I saw that you don't think gorf looks very good, for example, which is something I disagree with
    i specifically think vandys interactions with gorf were iffy but the opposite was better

    but i just meant look at the posts i provided, you can ignore my comments altogether i just think i picked out most of the posts that matter

    but obviously i mighta missed something i'm not telling you to just not do your own work i absolutely rushed towards the end




    @Thunal33 can you reply to P#2979 whenever you see this, thanks
    I was in bed and I just started to catch up, right now my list looks like:

    vanity
    JC

    Hornet
    alexa
    holyflare

    Katze

    Gorf
    Pilica

    Wiml
    TSF
    Boq
    Soneji
    Am I in your bottom poe because of omgus, because of my TSF wagon, or because of my content (and if so, what)?

  26. ISO #3126
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    ##Vote The Sun Fan

    Going to go back here.

    Going to sleep.

    I have Boq/Gorf as v.

    The only area I would have potentially overlooked is Wiml, but, not really interested there at present and am happy to let others who are interested do their thing.

    Fwiw I agree with Holy that the 15 hours we’ve had today have felt stunted at times, but trust the process tbh. I trust everyone here to show they’re a villager if they really are.

    Feels like we are very close to moving things forward at worst here.


    I’m living in a TSF/Soneji/Thunal solve. Will see how that develops.

  27. ISO #3127
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#2916)
    Why Wiml is a villager:

    No @Gorf. I'll clarify, sorry, it was a large post.

    This is important to everyone, given people have Wiml in their POE.

    Premise 1: Vandyfan was caught mostly by retrospect showing he had TMI on wolves.
    Premise 2: Vandyfan is playing against multiple of the same villagers again.

    Ok. Right. Let's look at my case on Vandyfan again. This requires people who are not me, reading what I am about to re-quote, and spending 30 seconds understanding the implications, because only SF2ers would be in-tune with the idea that I/we found Vandy!w by TMI:

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCarter (#1480)
    I take issue with Vandy's 'solving' this game.

    [snipped the other junk]

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1334)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#1330)
    is vandy’s worldview that hornet/wiml/jc are all wolves or something? i guess that doesn’t sound completely ridiculous but he’s acting like wiml casing hornet changes nothing for him, and that just reeks of gross conf bias.
    I think there are very likely wolves in there. Is that the team, probably not, but like, there's scum there for sure. I'd love to see Wiml give me more casing of Hornet. That wasn't sarcasm. like, specific posts and why they are in Hornet's town meta.
    From my understanding, red is you putting forward a solve of myself, hornet, wiml. The problem is that you called Hornet a wolf for existing, you called wiml a wolf because ?, and your progression on me makes no sense and ignores your five top villagers telling you you are incorrect.

    Personally, given your conclusion (blue) is not supported by your reasoning (red - here and previously), it makes me concerened that you are unable to quantify why people are wolves.

    In retrospect, I also think "there is scum there for sure" is something you've added in superficially in case you flip, so that when the villagers who caught you by TMI last game go through your spew, they spurriously declare that this is also TMI.

    Au contraire, if Vandy flips wolf, wiml anl hornet are lock villagers.
    Highlighted blue (bolded and font increased for you HF, too).

    Vandy, knowing he was caught by TMI, 100% throws in comments that look like TMI in retrospect, because he knows people are going to correctly identify he was caught by TMI last game.

    Wolves, especially wolves who know he is playing with 4 people who are familiar with his scum play, make these adjustments. They ask themselves what they can do to burn things down if they flip. Vandy, a man who escaped until D4 in SF2, 100% makes a post that looks like TMI post flip, with the express attitude of making Wiml look like absolute trash.

    Furthermore, Vandy's attitude this game was clearly to wolf-side. Pushing me. Pushing Wiml. Quite divisive.

    Vandy!w, whilst wolf-siding, never feels comfortable saying "there has to be wolves in this pile (of three)" when he was caught by TMI last game.

    Because of this, I am comfortable in saying that this comment alone makes Wiml almost always a villager, and the alternative requiring two tiers of WIFOM and pre-emptiveness that I am not willing to indulge from a "keep it simple, look villagery" player like Vandy. Finally: Vandy responds like a dog with his tail between his legs when I call him out, indicating I have read the situation exactly correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1501)
    Quote Originally Posted by Johncarter
    From my understanding, red is you putting forward a solve of myself, hornet, wiml. The problem is that you called Hornet a wolf for existing, you called wiml a wolf because ?, and your progression on me makes no sense and ignores your five top villagers telling you you are incorrect.

    Personally, given your conclusion (blue) is not supported by your reasoning (red - here and previously), it makes me concerened that you are unable to quantify why people are wolves.

    In retrospect, I also think "there is scum there for sure" is something you've added in superficially in case you flip, so that when the villagers who caught you by TMI last game go through your spew, they spurriously declare that this is also TMI.

    Au contraire, if Vandy flips wolf, wiml anl hornet are lock villagers.


    I mean, sure? But it's a moot point.
    Conclusion: Wiml almost always a villager.
    My issue with that is, that there was this Tmi-y post of Wiml. I think Wiml has independent wolf equity already and I'm personally supporting it with Vandy's spew. Also I think ESPECIALLY because he was wolving against people again he could repeat it on purpose because everyone would think of it as "why would he do it again?" if that's what he was caught on last time specifically? If you don't pay any attention to what Vandy posted at all, what do you think of Wiml?

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    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    in case anyone shades me later for it: I am still in a TSF wolf world, but there is a lot of time to do other things tbh. If TSF flips wolf I demand cred tbqfh

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    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3122)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2984)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2983)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2982)
    both ends of the soneji/vandy interactions are among the shortest reads

    (you should totally read the whole post anyway but i dont think theres any real excuse to not at least check the soneji spoilers and see how you feel about the posts individually)
    I'm gonna get my own impressions first, though your work before I touch it is definitely appreciated. Hopefully that doesn't sound too hollow because I do mean it.
    I think I saw that you don't think gorf looks very good, for example, which is something I disagree with
    i specifically think vandys interactions with gorf were iffy but the opposite was better

    but i just meant look at the posts i provided, you can ignore my comments altogether i just think i picked out most of the posts that matter

    but obviously i mighta missed something i'm not telling you to just not do your own work i absolutely rushed towards the end




    @Thunal33 can you reply to P#2979 whenever you see this, thanks
    I was in bed and I just started to catch up, right now my list looks like:

    vanity
    JC

    Hornet
    alexa
    holyflare

    Katze

    Gorf
    Pilica

    Wiml
    TSF
    Boq
    Soneji
    Also, why the low position of Gorf?
    Why is Alexa above HF?

  30. ISO #3130
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    I have written a few solvy posts that have been ignored tbh I would appreciate it if anyone looked at them and bounced their thoughts with me tbh


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3030)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#2713)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2704)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2640)
    @Thunal33 why would i get + points if vandy was town and why would I get minus points if he is scum?
    @Thunal33
    It was because you started the TSF wagon.
    I am voting you because of this @Thunal33

    I find it weird that you thought this when you yourself semi started the TSF wagon too.

    You made this case:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#1671)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1220)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#714)
    I’m a savage, I cut class short 20 minutes so I can book it to Einstein’s and skip the line that builds up at 11 and get to the grind here sooner
    god I really, really, really, really, really want to believe this comes from a wolf wanting cred for this post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1247)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#714)
    I’m a savage, I cut class short 20 minutes so I can book it to Einstein’s and skip the line that builds up at 11 and get to the grind here sooner
    my original quoting of this post didn't get much of a reaction but like
    this is just so much more likely to be posted by a wolf than by a town, in my experience

    I'm happy with where my vote is just from this post alone; this is a wolf trying to appear eager to solve more than anything else, certainly a lot more likely than a villager posting such a thing to try and show eagerness

    even more likely than the villager thing is gorf wanting to cut class because it was boring
    I'm concerned about this on an archetype level. TSF waffled on Gorf quite a bit for being the kind of person who latches onto posts that most people dismiss as NAI and call them really wolfy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1443)
    reading gorf right now, and I'm getting the impression again that I've kind of had for a while now; his thoughts on singular posts/moments are not really doing it for me.

    I don't think its his stylistic approach to catching up, firstly.

    Its the way his thoughts are all singular for the most part, there's not a lot of taking things from previous reads/moments and using them to develop reads, its just a singular glance, give a hot take on the read, move on.

    Like when he and I interacted a page ago about alexa, sure he agreed with me in the end, but there's a lot of stuff that I'm not really liking in the moment, and there's enough of it (things like the initial alexa take) to where I think if I had picked out singular posts/points of his at different times with similar approaches, he would've backed off of them too because they seem rather weak.

    I am not in love with voting him, I am not at all convinced that I definitely have a wolf for the right reasons, but pretty quick into his iso/remembering what I didn't like from earlier, I feel at least decent about my initial gut feelings on his slot.
    Okay I'll try to lay this reasoning out but a lot of it is on a personal level because TSF's post saying Gorf cutting class is wolfy reminds me a lot of Owner of a Lonely Heart, a PerC player. One of Owner's wolftells is that she tries to make her pushes more palatable to the thread instead of basing them off her quirky wolftells like she does as town. She doesn't put as much stock into her quirky wolftells either.

    I don't know enough TSF meta to say whether this is true for him in particular but his lack of focus on the cutting class post and then walking back his Gorf push feels like he's not putting as much stock into his reasons that aren't palatable to the thread as he said he was doing.
    Which imo looked pretty good. The issue I have when you say I get minus points for starting a counter wagon is that that is not inherently wolfy. It is actually NAI. You have to read how/why someone starts a counter-wagon. Thus, you have to look at my reasoning to vote TSF there and conclude it is fake/I dont believe in it.

    Your post about + and - pinged me because it felt opportunistic. Even tho you included the "if Vandy flips town these get +" I find that reasoning weak and like... it is just a weird thing to post and think?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3036)
    At the same time, those TSF posts I bookmarked, I did not have them as scummy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1247)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#714)
    I’m a savage, I cut class short 20 minutes so I can book it to Einstein’s and skip the line that builds up at 11 and get to the grind here sooner
    my original quoting of this post didn't get much of a reaction but like
    this is just so much more likely to be posted by a wolf than by a town, in my experience

    I'm happy with where my vote is just from this post alone; this is a wolf trying to appear eager to solve more than anything else, certainly a lot more likely than a villager posting such a thing to try and show eagerness

    even more likely than the villager thing is gorf wanting to cut class because it was boring
    This I have commented with:
    #1247 I think TSF believes this

    Here is another post. This one I commented as "maybe important"
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1444)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#637)
    Not a fan of tsf’s P#589. Reads like he saw katze’s concerns for boq and repurposed them to fit a concern for katze
    this is kind of so crazy that I think it has to be from a wolf trying to sound like a creative villager now that I look at it again

    firstly I'm not sure that the timing lines up for this event but I'll assume that it does

    that's like... not a geniune thought right? I can honestly say that I've played forum mafia for a very long time, and I've never faked a read in such a way, nor ever really thought that someone else was faking a read in such a way.

    I've done the mental gymnastics equivalent of WIFOM coming back to this point but it really, really bothers me
    I am going to flesh out my TSF read later. I have noticed that he has had interesting focuses. This and the Swedishness. The question is if a wolf would start commenting/be surprised over a Swedish player using a Swedish word to another Swedish player. Like if a wolf would find it worth a talking point?

    Maybe? Since it produces easy content?
    Either way, The Gorf posts TSF posted are posts I am not sure about. They do stick out but I would not call them roaringly scummy.

    What I get from it is that TSF is starting to scum read Gorf for "weird" reasons. I dont think there is much follow-up though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3039)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#3003)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneji (#2999)
    Surprised you think town me is more of an asshole if you read my d1 of S6G2, I was bussing the hell out of my scummates Jade and Nadaz and trashing their play in my assessments. I guess the genuine mocking in some of my town games can come off more asshole-ish than the fabricated condescension of my wolf posts.
    I don't recall singular instances but it feels like your comments as town actually had teeth, best way I can put it.
    I come from two communities where there is somewhat to signficantly more toxicity than MU would ever allow, so my radar is a bit skewed sometimes; on a scale of 1-100 on how much I care that such a difference exists I'm at like a 5, so
    I don't really care that there's a difference, it was just noteworthy
    I marked this as "wolfy"
    "on a scale of 1-100 on how much I care that such a difference exists I'm at like a 5, so
    I don't really care that there's a difference, it was just noteworthy"
    It kinda feels like backing down on a point. "I dont really care that there's a difference, it was just noteworthy".

    Like undermining the own read after getting pushed back.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3098)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3080)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#3078)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3048)
    Sure thing!

    2 prs
    katze
    Boquise
    Holyflare
    Gorf
    Thunal33
    The Sun Fan
    alexa
    Soneji
    Hornet
    Wiml

    Something like that. I skimmed a bit and would have to iso people but that's mny current state of mind
    Bold are names that I think are overwhelmingly likely to be villagers.

    I really don't like this list.

    Pilica please explain Boquise and Hornet.
    Lol at bolding yourself

    Boquise is there because he feels to me like his town self. Haven't read anything that pinged me. Feels good having there. So there's that.

    Hornet I kinda wanna put higher for posts but I don't feel good doing that. Something does keep me from it and I'm listening to my gut. The treatment Vandy gave Hornet doesn't help either.
    Why would wolf!Pilica keep Hornet in the bottom poe after wolf!Vandy got completely sunk for pressuring Hornet?
    That's just dumb wolf suicide. I get why Vandy would do it since he wasn't aware, but another wolf starting to do the same thing?



    Also yo, I have only skimmed.
    @JohnCarter I will give more nuance thoughts on Pilica after I have read their ISO. Though this post is also about them so thought you'd like to be tagged in it too

  31. ISO #3131
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2927)
    so this is going to be discussing how to handle spew. the point of this post isn't to discredit any spew reads people may have come across at any point and time, but it's just generally something to keep note of.

    pilica advanced to the finale out of pure chaos and having an incredibly hard iso to comb through wrt spew, and the spew overall looked extremely favorable to both of the remaining wolves. i think the wolves knew this from the start that distancing or bussing in certain spots could be pertinent to winning the game, and for that reason i think people need to be extra, extra critical of whenever they dive into spew. spew shouldn't be a main indicator of someone absolutely being a villager or absolutely being a wolf, and it should more so be a supplemental thing. i've also seen games recently where wolves purposely posted, knowing that their posts would be complete nonsense and throw off people once they flip. i actually don't think it's that uncommon of a wolf strategy, because if villagers could consistently find who the villagers are based off of one wolf flip, village would win almost every single game ever. but that's not the case.

    if any of the sf3 wolves is a wolf this game, they know better than anyone else how useful a dead wolf can be if their iso really is just complete nonsense. this isn't making any major assumptions about vandy's playstyle or his play, because generally i do believe that vandy isn't a busser and is usually inclined to defend teammates and push villagers. i'm just saying that there needs to be an extra layer of depth to a spew read in order for it to really be something crucial to clearing a certain player.

    with that out of the way, yeah hornet is still spewed clear.

    this ties into how i think the wolves probably treated vandy; as soon as the debacle between hornet and vandy happened, and i hard defended hornet, that was the point where i think the wolves had to start doing damage control. at least i think so; you can maybe argue that the point where wolves would start doing damage control would be later, but i definitely think wiml's post where he started voting vandy over tsf could easily be something akin to that. perhaps thunal's vote on vandy later? like i pointed out, if thunal is a wolf she was trying to act like she didn't know what vandy was going to flip. otherwise, she just didn't know. i mean yeah, duh obvious, but it's the point of how people approached it. it's why tsf's approach to vandy might be twtbaw, but i know this is a dangerous read. but basically as soon as he hard committed to defending vandy and never reevaluated during d1, tsf basically dug his own grave, and there's certain reasons i have to believe that tsf would maybe not do that, especially after sf3 where he made a point to distance and bus, and a health amount as well.

    i'm not going to do in depth wagon analysis, but while reading the finale of last year on my spare time (mostly because i was bored), i noticed that someone pointed out that sheppard pushed on michelle early; earlier than most of the other players, i think. of course, this can be a different scenario between michelle and vandy because i think vandy is a lot more confident in his own wolfing abilities compared to michelle. gth, i think either 1 wolf bussed, or both of them did, just based on the circumstances of how vandy got pushed on. however, i'm not going to ride or die by any wagonomics based reads. last finale, there was a busser, and it was the deepest wolf in the entire game, and he almost made it to f5.

    that's why i want to encourage not just riding and dying by spew, and continue to explore different avenues as to what could actually make people a wolf or not. that's just my advice. spew analysis can't be the only reason you think someone is a wolf. just vote them if you think they're wolfy, that's the number 1 thing yall should focus on.

    and tbh, i somewhat get that from the vibes of how vandy treated boq. that was way after the point where dust settled on vandy vs hornet. the fact that vandy put boq as a small v read, after what occurred and some of the small suspicions on boq that were going around, i can... easily see that as something to throw off people's scents. i'm just thinking a few levels deeper, is all.

    i'm going to read vandy's soneji post like 5 times and figure out what it is that's bothering me about it.
    Amen! Would've said something similar as well catching up. As I said Vandy's iso read to me like my own. Take that as you will, but don't trust the spew. And by that I don't mean 'don't trust the anti-spew after post XY'. I mean 'Don't trust the spew. PERIOD.'. You can use it to support your reads. Souble check. But never read off Spew alone.

    That said: Vanity, could you elaborate to me why you think Hornet is clear?

  32. ISO #3132
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2928)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#1161)
    Soneji- #696 The questioning of Katze on their read of Wiml being scummy in #260 is good, because I'm not quite sure what's so wolfy about that post in a vacuum. But then moves on townread Katze's push onto Alexa. I don't know if I like this. It isn't a particularly good push and I'm not quite sure why Soneji thinks so. But also, it reads as a partnery town read, and obviously can't be, so I don't know. I actually got those comments mixed up, which kinda makes the push on Katze a bit townier.
    can anyone tell me what they think the bolded means? or do i just lack basic reading comprehension skills?

    i probably do regardless lmao.
    If I'm corrently there was a subtle implication that the partnery could mean w/w since partnery town does not exist. Whcih imo fits with the mindset of already thinking of $%#!ing with people's reads.

  33. ISO #3133
    Wants It More Holyflare's Avatar
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    Boq can you talk me through your eod and why you felt like it was more important to talk about people shading you?

  34. ISO #3134
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    I got to TSF trying to clear Soneji and I really liked that. I got the feeling that in a w!TSF world he'd need Soneji as a viable push and wouldn't readily clear him. I definitely took JC's thoughts and TSF's thoughts about Soneji into consideration and I do think he has more depth of thought than he did in his wolf games and his posts feel more substantive but that's tempered somewhat by it being champs finale and a lot of players potentially being out of their usual wolf game meta.

  35. ISO #3135
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3133)
    Boq can you talk me through your eod and why you felt like it was more important to talk about people shading you?
    Because I did not want a bull$%#! cfd happen on me just because I was not completely around. I thought it was a mix of town dumbness and wolf opportunism tbh
    But I made other posts too tbh

  36. ISO #3136
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3030)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#2713)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2704)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2640)
    @Thunal33 why would i get + points if vandy was town and why would I get minus points if he is scum?
    @Thunal33
    It was because you started the TSF wagon.
    I am voting you because of this @Thunal33

    I find it weird that you thought this when you yourself semi started the TSF wagon too.

    You made this case:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#1671)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1220)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#714)
    I’m a savage, I cut class short 20 minutes so I can book it to Einstein’s and skip the line that builds up at 11 and get to the grind here sooner
    god I really, really, really, really, really want to believe this comes from a wolf wanting cred for this post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1247)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorf (#714)
    I’m a savage, I cut class short 20 minutes so I can book it to Einstein’s and skip the line that builds up at 11 and get to the grind here sooner
    my original quoting of this post didn't get much of a reaction but like
    this is just so much more likely to be posted by a wolf than by a town, in my experience

    I'm happy with where my vote is just from this post alone; this is a wolf trying to appear eager to solve more than anything else, certainly a lot more likely than a villager posting such a thing to try and show eagerness

    even more likely than the villager thing is gorf wanting to cut class because it was boring
    I'm concerned about this on an archetype level. TSF waffled on Gorf quite a bit for being the kind of person who latches onto posts that most people dismiss as NAI and call them really wolfy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#1443)
    reading gorf right now, and I'm getting the impression again that I've kind of had for a while now; his thoughts on singular posts/moments are not really doing it for me.

    I don't think its his stylistic approach to catching up, firstly.

    Its the way his thoughts are all singular for the most part, there's not a lot of taking things from previous reads/moments and using them to develop reads, its just a singular glance, give a hot take on the read, move on.

    Like when he and I interacted a page ago about alexa, sure he agreed with me in the end, but there's a lot of stuff that I'm not really liking in the moment, and there's enough of it (things like the initial alexa take) to where I think if I had picked out singular posts/points of his at different times with similar approaches, he would've backed off of them too because they seem rather weak.

    I am not in love with voting him, I am not at all convinced that I definitely have a wolf for the right reasons, but pretty quick into his iso/remembering what I didn't like from earlier, I feel at least decent about my initial gut feelings on his slot.
    Okay I'll try to lay this reasoning out but a lot of it is on a personal level because TSF's post saying Gorf cutting class is wolfy reminds me a lot of Owner of a Lonely Heart, a PerC player. One of Owner's wolftells is that she tries to make her pushes more palatable to the thread instead of basing them off her quirky wolftells like she does as town. She doesn't put as much stock into her quirky wolftells either.

    I don't know enough TSF meta to say whether this is true for him in particular but his lack of focus on the cutting class post and then walking back his Gorf push feels like he's not putting as much stock into his reasons that aren't palatable to the thread as he said he was doing.
    Which imo looked pretty good. The issue I have when you say I get minus points for starting a counter wagon is that that is not inherently wolfy. It is actually NAI. You have to read how/why someone starts a counter-wagon. Thus, you have to look at my reasoning to vote TSF there and conclude it is fake/I dont believe in it.

    Your post about + and - pinged me because it felt opportunistic. Even tho you included the "if Vandy flips town these get +" I find that reasoning weak and like... it is just a weird thing to post and think?
    It's not a weird thing to post and think at all, and you starting a counterwagon isn't NAI. I fully admit that I've been really unlucky and my case and position on the TSF wagon absolutely looks worse for me. I still think that especially with me coming around to TSF being v but even before then I thought there were wolves trying to get that wagon through.

    It would only be opportunistic if I shaded people on the - and used that to push agenda, which I didn't at all. I'm rechecking the people on that wagon today and I've come to different conclusions than the ones I made on my + and - list several times.

  37. ISO #3137
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2997)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2031)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2025)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2019)
    Alright people, I'm here now till EoD. No way I can catch up on everything so... tell me who I should iso/would be worth looking at and I'll do that 'cause I got no clue what all happened except the prs and I didn't get any other pings.
    vandy is probably the best person to start with.
    Seeing that massive wagon yeah makes sense. Getting lowkey Levi vibes without reading anything. So imma take a look there.
    @Pilica if its possible, can you recall at what point you felt like vandy was the runaway wagon at this point?
    like at what point after you came back to the thread after your family stuff did you realize vandy was extremely likely to be the d1 kill?
    Immediately. When I checked in a bit earlier Vandy was already a very high wagon. When I returned it was the same. The little posts I read around my entry were all pretty clearly giving me the thread state that Vandy would be the chop.

  38. ISO #3138
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#3129)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3122)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#2984)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2983)
    I'm gonna get my own impressions first, though your work before I touch it is definitely appreciated. Hopefully that doesn't sound too hollow because I do mean it.
    I think I saw that you don't think gorf looks very good, for example, which is something I disagree with
    i specifically think vandys interactions with gorf were iffy but the opposite was better

    but i just meant look at the posts i provided, you can ignore my comments altogether i just think i picked out most of the posts that matter

    but obviously i mighta missed something i'm not telling you to just not do your own work i absolutely rushed towards the end




    @Thunal33 can you reply to P#2979 whenever you see this, thanks
    I was in bed and I just started to catch up, right now my list looks like:

    vanity
    JC

    Hornet
    alexa
    holyflare

    Katze

    Gorf
    Pilica

    Wiml
    TSF
    Boq
    Soneji
    Also, why the low position of Gorf?
    Why is Alexa above HF?
    Gorf is relatively low because while I really like his bold approach to solving, I have a tinfoil that his wolf salt post was almost too spot on, and I know he bussed a lot in Constellations although that was different circumstances.

    Alexa and HF are really in the same place. With the Hornet/alexa/HF tier my thought was that they looked really good and I was going to just focus on others today although Hornet is above the others.

  39. ISO #3139
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    this is important to mention because it might be important: if we don’t completely dismiss the possibility of wolves trying to save vandy by wagoning tsf, if there was ever a point where the wagons got close and time was running out, i’m almost positive i would’ve voted vandy. i was discussing alternate possibilities a lot during eod1, but that was mostly to keep us all solving when it seemed like we were locked into who we were killing.

    gonna finally have time to start committing to the game. i’ll start with looking over stuff boq wanted people to look at.

    oh, and i don’t know how hot of a take this is but i legitimately think alexa’s vandy push is more clearing than holyflare’s. regardless, this is basically just choosing between which child of yours is your favorite, but (assuming thunal’s list is ordered within tiers, i think it might not be) i do think it’s ~somewhat reasonable to have alexa above holyflare.

  40. ISO #3140
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2689)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2502)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2497)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2491)
    wiml's self-vote is like
    expressly wolfy imo

    probably holyflare bias there from sf3 but I am not a fan of it
    Wiml/Vandy counterwagons?
    again
    I can't say I'm thrilled

    I'm happier voting for wiml I guess
    ##Vote Wiml
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#2505)
    nah I hate it too much
    I hate when people do this but
    ##Vote Boquise
    I think these vote changes are wolfy, especially the one on me. It is made after JC voted me and began shading me again (and iirc other people had expressed shade on me during the eod too). Thread state wise it isnt weird to think a cfd on me is a possibility tbh
    I feel like given TSF's stated position on Vandy he would vote on any potential counterwagon as either alignment.

  41. ISO #3141
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3044)
    Some thoughts, reading d1:
    P#50 Same thought Boq, you get a towny point

    P#63 Pings me TSF, I don’t trust this smh

    P#69 Yeah I don’t get why you and TSF are thinking Vandy is clearly town just from wanting bucket

    P#79 Looking at EoD1, TSF was Vandy your “let’s make it seem it’s another Levi I’m hard defending/town reading?”

    P#172 Towny with a grain of salt

    P#208 Yeah Boq is town

    P#259 Damn that pings. It’s basically copy paste of Vandy.

    P#277 @Wiml may you show us your research for Vandy? And out of curiosity I’d like to know your notes on me lol XD

    P#344 *looks at EoD* Well… my name was being thrown around but yes you were right I seemed like the easiest push. I recall Vanity saying that people shouldn’t listen to their trigger finger to vote me XD

    P#371 I wanna vote Wiml more and more ngl

    P#387 @Thunal33 how do you approach games without clears normally? Do you think relying on clears is the right way?

    P#388 No. Just. No.

    P#432 Thoughts on Vandy putting one of his buddies as only wolf read?

    P#444 towny points

    P#468 Towny for TSF

    P#474 Towny post go brrr

    P#479 Oh tell me, TSF, what would be outing for me? I’m curious what you think you picked up in SF3.

    P#496 Towny points for Holy

    P#545 you ain’t treating a partner like that. Towny Gorf

    P#629 @JohnCarter If I would’ve been wolf I would’ve given you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoWxv2yZXLQ but since I’m town I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShgdTo_cdC0 Survival of the Illest + (which was uploaded on my birthday yey!) would be most fitting. City’s on fiiiiiire~ City’s on fiiiiiire~ WITNESS! Survival of the Illest!

    P#687 Did you find me town yet? XD Or did you nullify it already?

    P#701 This is a ??? post like you weren’t in any danger lol

    P#796 Yeah Boq is town

    P#817 … another tell? Let’s see if you, Thunal, and TSF have the same on me

    P#879 Yeah… Wiml definitely gives me some SF3!Holy vibes for many reasons. If you’re actually town I’m sorry but just nah. I can’t see it.

    Offhand comment that I kinda like Hornets vibes

    P#957 Already knowing there’s a rescind but nah don’t like that. It’s a “lemme buy another day if it gets accepted” kinda claim

    P#959 People don’t trust themselves enough to solve without the bucket even thought bucket is exploitable but oh well. Still hate bucket.

    P#965 getting cold feet gotcha

    P#973 agreed, not w/w Gorf/Wiml

    P#1001 Boo. “I won’t force the bucket” Wiml said, pinging everyone to bucket. One PR claim at this point is not a reason to bucket. 2 prs claiming and one hiding would always be best because that way there’s doc cover (which Vanity talked about before) but it’s already done welp

    P#1053 Love your spite Boq XD

    P#1087 This aged well looking at the nk-

    P#1147 Katze town off of this Vandy post. Vandy didn’t expect Katze to rescind that’s clear from there.

    P#1157 tr for the wrong reasons, Thunal can be town

    P#1194 Lol alexa XD

    P#1199 wanna call this a bad look on Hornet if Vandy really is like me in terms of wolfing

    P#1240 Wiml/Soneji/Hornet is where I am pretty much set rn. If wrong on 2 of them probs expanding with TSF/alexa as it stands rn

    P#1241 I think it was me who said bucket will come even if I despise it

    P#1284 Can you elaborate on that Vanity?

    P#1389 Y’all.. I am town this game but I hate the reasons why I’m town read here. I got very busy. Idk I probs would’ve tried harder to post some more as wolf but I am not avoiding thread on purpose. I just had no $%#!ing time. Townread me for something else, will you? I prefer being mischoped over being tr just because I didn’t have time.

    Meh Hornets posts make me want to tr him but something’s keeping me from it

    P#1575 Towny points for Thunal

    P#1609 Nah Holy I checked how everyone else had so $%#!ing many posts compared to me. No low posters really except Soneji

    P#1644 I know I already called out the last part of this post at EoD but now more clearly: Sounds like TMI to me. Because at this point I was a $%#!ing null, nothing more, nothing less. So logically you can NEVER exclude any kind of pairing with me.

    P#1729 Getting more and more sure one of Wiml/Hornet at least has gotta be a buddy

    P#1866 I feel like you’ve never read a wolf game of mine saying that

    P#1878 I’m inclined to believe that all mentioned names are actually town

    P#1907 The bait vote is hesitantly taken

    P#1910 I think this is towny for Gorf because the threadstate def. is giving an option for TSF. So if TSF isn’t also mafia this is a good look. Whilst I’m being discussed I’m also seen as a reaction text option + going after low poster at this state is more harmful when they are town than someone who’s posted lots and was over and over again in a sus place.

    P#1935 yeah Vandy’s treatment of TSF is wtf.

    P#2140 @alexa can you elaborate why Hornet/Vandy are never w/w in your opinion?

    P#2386 Naww Vanity, why do you love my posts? I’m glad I can bring joy though.

    P#2387 The duality of men: “I love/hate posts” but another thing that made me feel Vandy is a me kinda wolf: Gave me the vibes I had with SJ in SF3

    P#2451 This combined with the self vote and everything is giving me SF3 flashbacks that I hate with a passion ngl. On that note: P#2486 I feel like TSF feels the same-

    P#2581 ftr I didn’t see anyone use the word toxic, seriously, I hope you’re getting your stuff together now Wiml because if not my vote will guaranteed stay on you.


    In conclusion:
    ##Vote Wiml


    Also the two songs as videos:
    I like to work with others as town, and when I don't have clears I just work with townreads but it's nice with bucket to know that I can bounce my ideas off people I know are good.

    Btw my tell on you was that as scum you tend to have fewer independent thoughts and your posts are largely dictated by the hot topic of the thread and quoting people saying you agree/disagree so these notes are a good look for you.

  42. ISO #3142
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#3007)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#680)
    Hello everyone!

    I'm currently still in a lecture but I will catch up later. Just telling you all that I'm alive. Hype has kinda taken a hit seeing my role pm so I actually have to THINK and READ for once while playing. So yeah you'll get stuff from me later when I can do that. I can wolf while multitasking but towning while multitasking? Nah.

    So yeah, mandatory live sign over, see y'all later.

    if my life absolutely $%#!ing depended on it, like if I was literally going to die if I didn't correctly read this introduction post and nothing else, I'd call it townie because of the headspace about seeing the role PM is MARGINALLY more creative than most wolves are.
    that's about as developed as my pilica read was yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2073)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2048)
    I honestly find it weird and scummy that Pilica's name is thrown around as a possible yeet but I don't remember who has said that tbh
    *psssst* I can sense my d1 misyeet because I didn't have time before XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2176)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#2166)
    Just believe in my reads guys. I'm really good.

    Pilica slightly up trending for not being chaos goblin.
    Oh to be a chaos goblin in this finale

    kinda an early read; she didn't have any opportunity to be one yet, maybe hf just means it to be funny.
    anyways, this post, and most of the others that I have quoted, fit into something where I'm going to try to get blood from a stone here. A lot of her headspace is centered around the mistakes town made in sf3, which I mean... yeah, I think wolf Pilica could definitely do that too. It just... feels genuine to me, like its her actual headspace, even the post that I don't like from her later, she chews out vandy for saying the sf3 PRs sucked.

    Like I said, its trying to get blood from a stone. Probably should've just waited until she emerged today, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2393)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#2383)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2370)
    *cough*SF3*cough* It's d1. Do you seriously expect to have all town figured out? To have a CLEAR outside of the obvious prs? If we're starting here like that I'll tell you that the wolves will dance on the bucket and laugh because people are falling into the same pattern as sf3.
    I pretty meticulously clear my top towns so yeah, me having a misclear tends to be a big hurdle lol
    Guess that's a difference in playstyle because I never clear people except they are mech confirmed. Cause once you go over the step of clearing someone it's hard to go back. Part of what cost town sf3 was that problem. Clearing the wrong people and only ever reconsidering when it was way too late. So tell me Wiml, gth, who would be your most likely misclear?
    same as before, a lot of the posts I've quoted are

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2413)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2394)
    pilica's stuff on vandy i kinda think is more depth in solving than i saw from her in SF3, like i remember reading it right away and finding her actual solving posts wolfy

    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2379)
    also maybe i'm a sucker but i think i believe boq's self-meta.
    this is like the way i wish you would approach me

    like people have presented reasons i'm a villager with meta and you've just been very shrug about it in your treatment of me

    it's more frustrating thiss game because i know none of this would happen if i didn't roll wolf in constellations even if i'm completely different

    anyway this is the last i'll say on it i know it's annoying
    Look I know my purpose in a wolf team is to die and to deliver spew hell but damn that hit hard calling this more in depth than my solving as wolf-
    lmao
    this is really, really good "fake villager headspace" if pilica is a wolf
    just let me have this one and wallow in sadness if I'm wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2427)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2387)
    Man, so glad Pilica came in and dropped the surprising case on me out of nowhere.
    You're aware that I was literally told to take a look at you and you're the top wagon? What else should I have done when I've read like 0 of the game?
    again, gun to head, feels not w/w (future comments though)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2503)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2494)
    i kind of most relate to wiml's self-vote because it's like how i feel this game so i don't find it that wolfy at all
    Do I need to remind you of SF3?
    sf3 again




    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2355)
    Vandy iso:
    P#49 People will bucked anyway even if we all hate it. Connected with the quote that’s in there it feels like wanting to appear towny by being like “I hate it but it’s townsided so let’s do it because I’m so towny and want it. See my townyness?” That’s at least the vibes I’m getting. Also as part of the wolf team that defeated the bucket: If you’re calling that so extremely townsided and don’t think you can $%#! with people’s reads more that way than I’m sad. You give them 3 nights with no info. In our case it was even 4 because we got a no-kill. So nah, Bucket can be defeated if you try hard.

    P#168 It’s not even 200 posts in, yet idk if Vandy would say it so casually in a “Yeah kinda forgot I gotta make up fake reads” way. Still feels strange to have the urge to mutter reads not even 200 posts in. Especially on Mr. Deep wolf Greg and like not really questioning it. That questioning follows at P#175 or rather being hedgy. Confident in finding him town but also saying was fooled in sf3.

    P#449 Idk what it is but I don’t LIKE this post at all. It pings me, probably for all the wrong reasons but it’s a post that I’d do to seem too partner to be partner with TSF and to $%#! with people’s reads regarding my spew.

    P#453 Yeah… the paranoia that should be there is swiftly off the table again. Either they are buddies or Vandy chose TSF to pocket. Even if in the next post he says he wasn’t as sure. Like an after thought “Oh wait I should be more paranoid.”

    P#1219 …. I feel like I’m reading wolf me wtf P#1228 feels extremely self aware

    P#1620 this is funny because the first days, or especially d1, town was in agreement in sf3. Consensus from PRs isn’t always the way to go, it was that no one else was finding each other town and the prs were literally on time. Also not appreciating the $%#!ting on the sf3 prs, they did as well as they could. And I’m talking from sf3 wolf pov.

    P#1770 Btw @Wiml why are you getting the idea that Vandy and I aren’t t/t? I literally haven’t posted at that point.


    Tbh Vandy, are you like my wolf sibling? This feels like reading myself and it's $%#!ing awkward. But yeah I don't mind this one being yeeted, giving me too many me-vibes to feel comfy about.
    ok, so I absolutely despise Pilica's Vandy scumread here. It feels like a last-minute school project designed to get whatever modicum of bus-cred she can get. She had already talked about thinking vandy was definitely going to go down at one point or another, and probably it would be on d1, no later than n2 vig shot was her wording, I think.

    I don't really care about the Wiml vote from her later, its possible she despised it in exactly the same vein I did, its also possible that she voted him solely because there was a modicum of a chance it can save vandy. I know she loves rands and maybe, even in finals, her inner chaos goblin demanded a rand of her if she could get one.

    Pilica is, iirc, the only person who scumread vandy's approach to wanting the bucket. I think so, anyways. Some people null read it, some people townread it, but she's the only one. It feels TMI-y in a "give me cred kind of way"

    The stuff in the 2nd bit feels like
    a lot stronger than I think it should? It doesn't consider the fact that vandy at least claimed to be able to read me well, even if he was wrong in sf3. She's accusing him of like WIL by post 200, if I'm reading this right. Hedginess too, I'll let that one be, though.

    449 I don't have any strong feelings on. It seems to be the post she dislikes the most, its plausible village pilica just feels something about it, its possible its a wolf bullshitting. This isn't where I'm finding wolf pilica imo.

    453, again, she's really like... focused in on something very, very strongly here. Definitively, its either im w/w with vandy or vandy is pocketing me; she can't find a thing townie about him or give him any benefit of the doubt.

    1219 seems NAI to me, its weird that pilica feels so strongly about this. I don't see why hating ISOs is expressly wolfy for either of them. 1228 is also not really self-aware, but just like
    explaining a concern that people have on vandy? I don't see why she's penalizing him for this at all.

    1620 isn't really a read against him, but it kind of reads like she's not liking the post for AI reasons even though her comments should be NAI

    1770 doesn't matter for the vandy read

    all in all, aside from the villager!pilica headspace existing somewhat imo in this post as well, I like
    despise this post. She confidently reads vandy wolf for, imo, flimsy reasons, and it really doesn't feel like any of her complaints should bear anywhere near the strength she has on reading vandy scum.



    tl;dr
    all of this is blood from a stone; wanted to do something else before I prolly went to bed. Pilica's consistent headspace feels villagery, there's at least one interaction between vandy/pilica that feels better than it does worse, I know I said I wasn't going to read into the vandy spew stuff so like, its very weak there.

    Her scumread of vandy is just bad. I don't follow it at all, I can't really see where she got any of it, and it reads like she went into it knowing she'd leave with a scumread on vandy, especially at the beginning.

    Would like some comments on this because I think this is potentially important;

    does it feel like Pilica went into the Vandy iso with the intent on coming out with a scumread on him?

    that's the question I would ask people reading this
    To clarify: I accused him of too high WiM that early in the game. Forcing reads out and all that stuff. And welcome to my town game, this is how I read people. By the vibes and stuff they give me. As wolf I at least try to make it really logical.

    Sooo... to summarise though you hate my maf read on Vandy and that's basically it because the rest you quoted to me actually reads as you tring me XD

    "lmao
    this is really, really good "fake villager headspace" if pilica is a wolf
    just let me have this one and wallow in sadness if I'm wrong"

    Waiting for that for after I flip jsyk.

    Either way TSF, this post actually makes me feel a bit better about you though I still am kinda meh that you delivered ANY kind of reasoning only after poeing me for just having to be there. So... I've given you more posts to work on. What are you doing with the? Help me find you if you're town.

  43. ISO #3143
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3141)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3044)
    Some thoughts, reading d1:
    P#50 Same thought Boq, you get a towny point

    P#63 Pings me TSF, I don’t trust this smh

    P#69 Yeah I don’t get why you and TSF are thinking Vandy is clearly town just from wanting bucket

    P#79 Looking at EoD1, TSF was Vandy your “let’s make it seem it’s another Levi I’m hard defending/town reading?”

    P#172 Towny with a grain of salt

    P#208 Yeah Boq is town

    P#259 Damn that pings. It’s basically copy paste of Vandy.

    P#277 @Wiml may you show us your research for Vandy? And out of curiosity I’d like to know your notes on me lol XD

    P#344 *looks at EoD* Well… my name was being thrown around but yes you were right I seemed like the easiest push. I recall Vanity saying that people shouldn’t listen to their trigger finger to vote me XD

    P#371 I wanna vote Wiml more and more ngl

    P#387 @Thunal33 how do you approach games without clears normally? Do you think relying on clears is the right way?

    P#388 No. Just. No.

    P#432 Thoughts on Vandy putting one of his buddies as only wolf read?

    P#444 towny points

    P#468 Towny for TSF

    P#474 Towny post go brrr

    P#479 Oh tell me, TSF, what would be outing for me? I’m curious what you think you picked up in SF3.

    P#496 Towny points for Holy

    P#545 you ain’t treating a partner like that. Towny Gorf

    P#629 @JohnCarter If I would’ve been wolf I would’ve given you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoWxv2yZXLQ but since I’m town I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShgdTo_cdC0 Survival of the Illest + (which was uploaded on my birthday yey!) would be most fitting. City’s on fiiiiiire~ City’s on fiiiiiire~ WITNESS! Survival of the Illest!

    P#687 Did you find me town yet? XD Or did you nullify it already?

    P#701 This is a ??? post like you weren’t in any danger lol

    P#796 Yeah Boq is town

    P#817 … another tell? Let’s see if you, Thunal, and TSF have the same on me

    P#879 Yeah… Wiml definitely gives me some SF3!Holy vibes for many reasons. If you’re actually town I’m sorry but just nah. I can’t see it.

    Offhand comment that I kinda like Hornets vibes

    P#957 Already knowing there’s a rescind but nah don’t like that. It’s a “lemme buy another day if it gets accepted” kinda claim

    P#959 People don’t trust themselves enough to solve without the bucket even thought bucket is exploitable but oh well. Still hate bucket.

    P#965 getting cold feet gotcha

    P#973 agreed, not w/w Gorf/Wiml

    P#1001 Boo. “I won’t force the bucket” Wiml said, pinging everyone to bucket. One PR claim at this point is not a reason to bucket. 2 prs claiming and one hiding would always be best because that way there’s doc cover (which Vanity talked about before) but it’s already done welp

    P#1053 Love your spite Boq XD

    P#1087 This aged well looking at the nk-

    P#1147 Katze town off of this Vandy post. Vandy didn’t expect Katze to rescind that’s clear from there.

    P#1157 tr for the wrong reasons, Thunal can be town

    P#1194 Lol alexa XD

    P#1199 wanna call this a bad look on Hornet if Vandy really is like me in terms of wolfing

    P#1240 Wiml/Soneji/Hornet is where I am pretty much set rn. If wrong on 2 of them probs expanding with TSF/alexa as it stands rn

    P#1241 I think it was me who said bucket will come even if I despise it

    P#1284 Can you elaborate on that Vanity?

    P#1389 Y’all.. I am town this game but I hate the reasons why I’m town read here. I got very busy. Idk I probs would’ve tried harder to post some more as wolf but I am not avoiding thread on purpose. I just had no $%#!ing time. Townread me for something else, will you? I prefer being mischoped over being tr just because I didn’t have time.

    Meh Hornets posts make me want to tr him but something’s keeping me from it

    P#1575 Towny points for Thunal

    P#1609 Nah Holy I checked how everyone else had so $%#!ing many posts compared to me. No low posters really except Soneji

    P#1644 I know I already called out the last part of this post at EoD but now more clearly: Sounds like TMI to me. Because at this point I was a $%#!ing null, nothing more, nothing less. So logically you can NEVER exclude any kind of pairing with me.

    P#1729 Getting more and more sure one of Wiml/Hornet at least has gotta be a buddy

    P#1866 I feel like you’ve never read a wolf game of mine saying that

    P#1878 I’m inclined to believe that all mentioned names are actually town

    P#1907 The bait vote is hesitantly taken

    P#1910 I think this is towny for Gorf because the threadstate def. is giving an option for TSF. So if TSF isn’t also mafia this is a good look. Whilst I’m being discussed I’m also seen as a reaction text option + going after low poster at this state is more harmful when they are town than someone who’s posted lots and was over and over again in a sus place.

    P#1935 yeah Vandy’s treatment of TSF is wtf.

    P#2140 @alexa can you elaborate why Hornet/Vandy are never w/w in your opinion?

    P#2386 Naww Vanity, why do you love my posts? I’m glad I can bring joy though.

    P#2387 The duality of men: “I love/hate posts” but another thing that made me feel Vandy is a me kinda wolf: Gave me the vibes I had with SJ in SF3

    P#2451 This combined with the self vote and everything is giving me SF3 flashbacks that I hate with a passion ngl. On that note: P#2486 I feel like TSF feels the same-

    P#2581 ftr I didn’t see anyone use the word toxic, seriously, I hope you’re getting your stuff together now Wiml because if not my vote will guaranteed stay on you.


    In conclusion:
    ##Vote Wiml


    Also the two songs as videos:
    I like to work with others as town, and when I don't have clears I just work with townreads but it's nice with bucket to know that I can bounce my ideas off people I know are good.

    Btw my tell on you was that as scum you tend to have fewer independent thoughts and your posts are largely dictated by the hot topic of the thread and quoting people saying you agree/disagree so these notes are a good look for you.
    Okay so basically you're way more of a team player as town and are rather working with reaching hands to others/taking them/bouncing off ideas. Gotcha, so that's the kinda player you are. I've seen that you are rather meta-heavy in some of your posts. Do you see yourself more so as the analyst of the team in that case? Or how would you describe your role in an ideal town?

    And gotcha, now that you mention it, I think I really do that more as wolf

  44. ISO #3144
    Wants It More Pilica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3142)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun Fan (#3007)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#680)
    Hello everyone!

    I'm currently still in a lecture but I will catch up later. Just telling you all that I'm alive. Hype has kinda taken a hit seeing my role pm so I actually have to THINK and READ for once while playing. So yeah you'll get stuff from me later when I can do that. I can wolf while multitasking but towning while multitasking? Nah.

    So yeah, mandatory live sign over, see y'all later.

    if my life absolutely $%#!ing depended on it, like if I was literally going to die if I didn't correctly read this introduction post and nothing else, I'd call it townie because of the headspace about seeing the role PM is MARGINALLY more creative than most wolves are.
    that's about as developed as my pilica read was yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2073)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#2048)
    I honestly find it weird and scummy that Pilica's name is thrown around as a possible yeet but I don't remember who has said that tbh
    *psssst* I can sense my d1 misyeet because I didn't have time before XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2176)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#2166)
    Just believe in my reads guys. I'm really good.

    Pilica slightly up trending for not being chaos goblin.
    Oh to be a chaos goblin in this finale

    kinda an early read; she didn't have any opportunity to be one yet, maybe hf just means it to be funny.
    anyways, this post, and most of the others that I have quoted, fit into something where I'm going to try to get blood from a stone here. A lot of her headspace is centered around the mistakes town made in sf3, which I mean... yeah, I think wolf Pilica could definitely do that too. It just... feels genuine to me, like its her actual headspace, even the post that I don't like from her later, she chews out vandy for saying the sf3 PRs sucked.

    Like I said, its trying to get blood from a stone. Probably should've just waited until she emerged today, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2393)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#2383)
    I pretty meticulously clear my top towns so yeah, me having a misclear tends to be a big hurdle lol
    Guess that's a difference in playstyle because I never clear people except they are mech confirmed. Cause once you go over the step of clearing someone it's hard to go back. Part of what cost town sf3 was that problem. Clearing the wrong people and only ever reconsidering when it was way too late. So tell me Wiml, gth, who would be your most likely misclear?
    same as before, a lot of the posts I've quoted are

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2413)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2394)
    pilica's stuff on vandy i kinda think is more depth in solving than i saw from her in SF3, like i remember reading it right away and finding her actual solving posts wolfy



    this is like the way i wish you would approach me

    like people have presented reasons i'm a villager with meta and you've just been very shrug about it in your treatment of me

    it's more frustrating thiss game because i know none of this would happen if i didn't roll wolf in constellations even if i'm completely different

    anyway this is the last i'll say on it i know it's annoying
    Look I know my purpose in a wolf team is to die and to deliver spew hell but damn that hit hard calling this more in depth than my solving as wolf-
    lmao
    this is really, really good "fake villager headspace" if pilica is a wolf
    just let me have this one and wallow in sadness if I'm wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2427)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#2387)
    Man, so glad Pilica came in and dropped the surprising case on me out of nowhere.
    You're aware that I was literally told to take a look at you and you're the top wagon? What else should I have done when I've read like 0 of the game?
    again, gun to head, feels not w/w (future comments though)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2503)
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#2494)
    i kind of most relate to wiml's self-vote because it's like how i feel this game so i don't find it that wolfy at all
    Do I need to remind you of SF3?
    sf3 again




    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#2355)
    Vandy iso:
    P#49 People will bucked anyway even if we all hate it. Connected with the quote that’s in there it feels like wanting to appear towny by being like “I hate it but it’s townsided so let’s do it because I’m so towny and want it. See my townyness?” That’s at least the vibes I’m getting. Also as part of the wolf team that defeated the bucket: If you’re calling that so extremely townsided and don’t think you can $%#! with people’s reads more that way than I’m sad. You give them 3 nights with no info. In our case it was even 4 because we got a no-kill. So nah, Bucket can be defeated if you try hard.

    P#168 It’s not even 200 posts in, yet idk if Vandy would say it so casually in a “Yeah kinda forgot I gotta make up fake reads” way. Still feels strange to have the urge to mutter reads not even 200 posts in. Especially on Mr. Deep wolf Greg and like not really questioning it. That questioning follows at P#175 or rather being hedgy. Confident in finding him town but also saying was fooled in sf3.

    P#449 Idk what it is but I don’t LIKE this post at all. It pings me, probably for all the wrong reasons but it’s a post that I’d do to seem too partner to be partner with TSF and to $%#! with people’s reads regarding my spew.

    P#453 Yeah… the paranoia that should be there is swiftly off the table again. Either they are buddies or Vandy chose TSF to pocket. Even if in the next post he says he wasn’t as sure. Like an after thought “Oh wait I should be more paranoid.”

    P#1219 …. I feel like I’m reading wolf me wtf P#1228 feels extremely self aware

    P#1620 this is funny because the first days, or especially d1, town was in agreement in sf3. Consensus from PRs isn’t always the way to go, it was that no one else was finding each other town and the prs were literally on time. Also not appreciating the $%#!ting on the sf3 prs, they did as well as they could. And I’m talking from sf3 wolf pov.

    P#1770 Btw @Wiml why are you getting the idea that Vandy and I aren’t t/t? I literally haven’t posted at that point.


    Tbh Vandy, are you like my wolf sibling? This feels like reading myself and it's $%#!ing awkward. But yeah I don't mind this one being yeeted, giving me too many me-vibes to feel comfy about.
    ok, so I absolutely despise Pilica's Vandy scumread here. It feels like a last-minute school project designed to get whatever modicum of bus-cred she can get. She had already talked about thinking vandy was definitely going to go down at one point or another, and probably it would be on d1, no later than n2 vig shot was her wording, I think.

    I don't really care about the Wiml vote from her later, its possible she despised it in exactly the same vein I did, its also possible that she voted him solely because there was a modicum of a chance it can save vandy. I know she loves rands and maybe, even in finals, her inner chaos goblin demanded a rand of her if she could get one.

    Pilica is, iirc, the only person who scumread vandy's approach to wanting the bucket. I think so, anyways. Some people null read it, some people townread it, but she's the only one. It feels TMI-y in a "give me cred kind of way"

    The stuff in the 2nd bit feels like
    a lot stronger than I think it should? It doesn't consider the fact that vandy at least claimed to be able to read me well, even if he was wrong in sf3. She's accusing him of like WIL by post 200, if I'm reading this right. Hedginess too, I'll let that one be, though.

    449 I don't have any strong feelings on. It seems to be the post she dislikes the most, its plausible village pilica just feels something about it, its possible its a wolf bullshitting. This isn't where I'm finding wolf pilica imo.

    453, again, she's really like... focused in on something very, very strongly here. Definitively, its either im w/w with vandy or vandy is pocketing me; she can't find a thing townie about him or give him any benefit of the doubt.

    1219 seems NAI to me, its weird that pilica feels so strongly about this. I don't see why hating ISOs is expressly wolfy for either of them. 1228 is also not really self-aware, but just like
    explaining a concern that people have on vandy? I don't see why she's penalizing him for this at all.

    1620 isn't really a read against him, but it kind of reads like she's not liking the post for AI reasons even though her comments should be NAI

    1770 doesn't matter for the vandy read

    all in all, aside from the villager!pilica headspace existing somewhat imo in this post as well, I like
    despise this post. She confidently reads vandy wolf for, imo, flimsy reasons, and it really doesn't feel like any of her complaints should bear anywhere near the strength she has on reading vandy scum.



    tl;dr
    all of this is blood from a stone; wanted to do something else before I prolly went to bed. Pilica's consistent headspace feels villagery, there's at least one interaction between vandy/pilica that feels better than it does worse, I know I said I wasn't going to read into the vandy spew stuff so like, its very weak there.

    Her scumread of vandy is just bad. I don't follow it at all, I can't really see where she got any of it, and it reads like she went into it knowing she'd leave with a scumread on vandy, especially at the beginning.

    Would like some comments on this because I think this is potentially important;

    does it feel like Pilica went into the Vandy iso with the intent on coming out with a scumread on him?

    that's the question I would ask people reading this
    To clarify: I accused him of too high WiM that early in the game. Forcing reads out and all that stuff. And welcome to my town game, this is how I read people. By the vibes and stuff they give me. As wolf I at least try to make it really logical.

    Sooo... to summarise though you hate my maf read on Vandy and that's basically it because the rest you quoted to me actually reads as you tring me XD

    "lmao
    this is really, really good "fake villager headspace" if pilica is a wolf
    just let me have this one and wallow in sadness if I'm wrong"

    Waiting for that for after I flip jsyk.

    Either way TSF, this post actually makes me feel a bit better about you though I still am kinda meh that you delivered ANY kind of reasoning only after poeing me for just having to be there. So... I've given you more posts to work on. What are you doing with the? Help me find you if you're town.
    Since I just realised writing the other post I forgot to mention:
    Vandy felt like wolf!me in a vibe kinda way. Like I felt those posts. Difficult to explain but it wasn't just the iso thing, just a general "Ah yes I feel like I'm reading myself" in a way.

  45. ISO #3145
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3051)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3050)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3048)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3046)
    Got a quick reads list you can get out before you go to d2?
    Sure thing!

    2 prs
    katze
    Boquise
    Holyflare
    Gorf
    Thunal33
    The Sun Fan
    alexa
    Soneji
    Hornet
    Wiml

    Something like that. I skimmed a bit and would have to iso people but that's mny current state of mind
    Why is hornet so low?!?!? You think Vandy vs Hornet was just massive scum theatre??
    Yes and no. I think from Vandys side more so than Hornets. Part of me wants to put Hornet higher but it doesn't feel right. And wolves can get pissed if they are not in on such a plan genuinely and Vandy does feel like a me-wolf so from that lens, yeah, I'm kinda sure. Though Wiml is 100% first priority and I'll iso Hornet and try and read him independently. I wouldn't want to kill Hornet just off of that and the posts felt good but as I said something's keeping me.
    Honestly I think this is a little villagery. I don't think w!Pilica would dare to push Hornet after Vandy got killed for it.

  46. ISO #3146
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3111)
    Pilica v
    why do you believe this? don't tell me it's like a chaos goblin meta read on sorts.

  47. ISO #3147
    Galaxy Brain JohnCarter's Avatar
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    @Boquise yeah I read the interaction at the time, I don’t really have a problem with either of your takes. It does defer responsibility to me, you’re right. It is a logical path to follow me, yes. I wasn’t overtly aware he’d been previously town reading you, so I suppose that is area for concern.

    I didn’t comment on the interaction at the time because of the death tunnel comment. Tbh it has made me kinda sad that that’s how you view me. Your feeling is valid. It’s just, Every decision I’ve made on you was to not make it a $%#! time regardless of your alignment, particularly because I knew you’d been through $%#! experiences previously. That’s what I thought I was doing by, me (knowing I was going to claim PR) not burying you over minor reasons from SOD1 in finale. That’s what I thought I was doing by not voting you in a serious way once in this game. That’s what I thought I was doing by deferring any feelings I have to town reads other people had on you d1.

    Regardless of your alignment, I have had you in my POE all game. I am sorry about this regardless of your alignment, and you feeling that I’ve death tunnelled you is a valid feeling with that in mind.

    And I know that it gives the impression to people that I’m a brick wall when I express suspicion on them, so it’s me and not you.

    But it honestly does make me kind of sad because you’ve been the person I’ve actively tried to not be unenjoyable for the most and it’s apparently not worked given you think my stance has been a death tunnel. I’ve cared about every post everyone here has made including yours, so it kind of sucks I give the impression that isn’t the case.

    Anyway. I get the impression you’ll read this as a pocket or something finale related but it is something I strive to with so much effort every game and look for feedback on - light, anon or otherwise, and there’s room to grow I guess, for you and Alexa.

    Tl;dr I’m trying, I have been trying, I will try, I care, and I don’t just care because of finale, I’m sorry





    @Pilica regarding Wiml as individual read: I think he is being suspected for having less content than his semi final, and I don’t think that’s 1:1 with his alignment rand. I think his work has been good for the effort levels he has.

    I think spew aside, having reviewed @Wisdom ‘s iso about 12 times, Wisdom pointing out Wiml’s eod as a point of wolfiness is an excellent point that is worth exploring. Specifically Wisdom questioned the >>> activity at EOD as uncharacteristic.

    As the POE tightens I am forced to look back that way, but, I’m not there on him as a wolf.

    Happy to chat further for those who think otherwise dawgs.

  48. ISO #3148
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3136)

    It's not a weird thing to post and think at all, and you starting a counterwagon isn't NAI. I fully admit that I've been really unlucky and my case and position on the TSF wagon absolutely looks worse for me. I still think that especially with me coming around to TSF being v but even before then I thought there were wolves trying to get that wagon through.

    It would only be opportunistic if I shaded people on the - and used that to push agenda, which I didn't at all. I'm rechecking the people on that wagon today and I've come to different conclusions than the ones I made on my + and - list several times.
    The action of starting a counter-wagon is NAI, because both town and scum start counter-wagons. Town lacking TMI can easily start a counter-wagon so it is more important to look at the why they start a counter-wagon. When you talk like this, that you were unlucky and that your vote on TSF makes you look worse, it almost feels like you TMI TSF town tbh?

    I think a wolf could drive away from that + and - post the next day. Imo it was scummy in the moment but to be fair i dont have a complete picture of what has been said today so we will see tbh

  49. ISO #3149
    GOAT Tier Thunal33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3143)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3141)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3044)
    Some thoughts, reading d1:
    P#50 Same thought Boq, you get a towny point

    P#63 Pings me TSF, I don’t trust this smh

    P#69 Yeah I don’t get why you and TSF are thinking Vandy is clearly town just from wanting bucket

    P#79 Looking at EoD1, TSF was Vandy your “let’s make it seem it’s another Levi I’m hard defending/town reading?”

    P#172 Towny with a grain of salt

    P#208 Yeah Boq is town

    P#259 Damn that pings. It’s basically copy paste of Vandy.

    P#277 @Wiml may you show us your research for Vandy? And out of curiosity I’d like to know your notes on me lol XD

    P#344 *looks at EoD* Well… my name was being thrown around but yes you were right I seemed like the easiest push. I recall Vanity saying that people shouldn’t listen to their trigger finger to vote me XD

    P#371 I wanna vote Wiml more and more ngl

    P#387 @Thunal33 how do you approach games without clears normally? Do you think relying on clears is the right way?

    P#388 No. Just. No.

    P#432 Thoughts on Vandy putting one of his buddies as only wolf read?

    P#444 towny points

    P#468 Towny for TSF

    P#474 Towny post go brrr

    P#479 Oh tell me, TSF, what would be outing for me? I’m curious what you think you picked up in SF3.

    P#496 Towny points for Holy

    P#545 you ain’t treating a partner like that. Towny Gorf

    P#629 @JohnCarter If I would’ve been wolf I would’ve given you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoWxv2yZXLQ but since I’m town I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShgdTo_cdC0 Survival of the Illest + (which was uploaded on my birthday yey!) would be most fitting. City’s on fiiiiiire~ City’s on fiiiiiire~ WITNESS! Survival of the Illest!

    P#687 Did you find me town yet? XD Or did you nullify it already?

    P#701 This is a ??? post like you weren’t in any danger lol

    P#796 Yeah Boq is town

    P#817 … another tell? Let’s see if you, Thunal, and TSF have the same on me

    P#879 Yeah… Wiml definitely gives me some SF3!Holy vibes for many reasons. If you’re actually town I’m sorry but just nah. I can’t see it.

    Offhand comment that I kinda like Hornets vibes

    P#957 Already knowing there’s a rescind but nah don’t like that. It’s a “lemme buy another day if it gets accepted” kinda claim

    P#959 People don’t trust themselves enough to solve without the bucket even thought bucket is exploitable but oh well. Still hate bucket.

    P#965 getting cold feet gotcha

    P#973 agreed, not w/w Gorf/Wiml

    P#1001 Boo. “I won’t force the bucket” Wiml said, pinging everyone to bucket. One PR claim at this point is not a reason to bucket. 2 prs claiming and one hiding would always be best because that way there’s doc cover (which Vanity talked about before) but it’s already done welp

    P#1053 Love your spite Boq XD

    P#1087 This aged well looking at the nk-

    P#1147 Katze town off of this Vandy post. Vandy didn’t expect Katze to rescind that’s clear from there.

    P#1157 tr for the wrong reasons, Thunal can be town

    P#1194 Lol alexa XD

    P#1199 wanna call this a bad look on Hornet if Vandy really is like me in terms of wolfing

    P#1240 Wiml/Soneji/Hornet is where I am pretty much set rn. If wrong on 2 of them probs expanding with TSF/alexa as it stands rn

    P#1241 I think it was me who said bucket will come even if I despise it

    P#1284 Can you elaborate on that Vanity?

    P#1389 Y’all.. I am town this game but I hate the reasons why I’m town read here. I got very busy. Idk I probs would’ve tried harder to post some more as wolf but I am not avoiding thread on purpose. I just had no $%#!ing time. Townread me for something else, will you? I prefer being mischoped over being tr just because I didn’t have time.

    Meh Hornets posts make me want to tr him but something’s keeping me from it

    P#1575 Towny points for Thunal

    P#1609 Nah Holy I checked how everyone else had so $%#!ing many posts compared to me. No low posters really except Soneji

    P#1644 I know I already called out the last part of this post at EoD but now more clearly: Sounds like TMI to me. Because at this point I was a $%#!ing null, nothing more, nothing less. So logically you can NEVER exclude any kind of pairing with me.

    P#1729 Getting more and more sure one of Wiml/Hornet at least has gotta be a buddy

    P#1866 I feel like you’ve never read a wolf game of mine saying that

    P#1878 I’m inclined to believe that all mentioned names are actually town

    P#1907 The bait vote is hesitantly taken

    P#1910 I think this is towny for Gorf because the threadstate def. is giving an option for TSF. So if TSF isn’t also mafia this is a good look. Whilst I’m being discussed I’m also seen as a reaction text option + going after low poster at this state is more harmful when they are town than someone who’s posted lots and was over and over again in a sus place.

    P#1935 yeah Vandy’s treatment of TSF is wtf.

    P#2140 @alexa can you elaborate why Hornet/Vandy are never w/w in your opinion?

    P#2386 Naww Vanity, why do you love my posts? I’m glad I can bring joy though.

    P#2387 The duality of men: “I love/hate posts” but another thing that made me feel Vandy is a me kinda wolf: Gave me the vibes I had with SJ in SF3

    P#2451 This combined with the self vote and everything is giving me SF3 flashbacks that I hate with a passion ngl. On that note: P#2486 I feel like TSF feels the same-

    P#2581 ftr I didn’t see anyone use the word toxic, seriously, I hope you’re getting your stuff together now Wiml because if not my vote will guaranteed stay on you.


    In conclusion:
    ##Vote Wiml


    Also the two songs as videos:
    I like to work with others as town, and when I don't have clears I just work with townreads but it's nice with bucket to know that I can bounce my ideas off people I know are good.

    Btw my tell on you was that as scum you tend to have fewer independent thoughts and your posts are largely dictated by the hot topic of the thread and quoting people saying you agree/disagree so these notes are a good look for you.
    Okay so basically you're way more of a team player as town and are rather working with reaching hands to others/taking them/bouncing off ideas. Gotcha, so that's the kinda player you are. I've seen that you are rather meta-heavy in some of your posts. Do you see yourself more so as the analyst of the team in that case? Or how would you describe your role in an ideal town?

    And gotcha, now that you mention it, I think I really do that more as wolf
    Sometimes people have called me the voice of reason and I've been a supporting player that provides analysis that informs the leaders, and sometimes I take charge like I did in sf1. I'd say my role depends on what roles are already filled and my opinion of the thread consensus.

  50. ISO #3150
    Special Agent tbh Boquise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#3145)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3051)
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyflare (#3050)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilica (#3048)
    Sure thing!

    2 prs
    katze
    Boquise
    Holyflare
    Gorf
    Thunal33
    The Sun Fan
    alexa
    Soneji
    Hornet
    Wiml

    Something like that. I skimmed a bit and would have to iso people but that's mny current state of mind
    Why is hornet so low?!?!? You think Vandy vs Hornet was just massive scum theatre??
    Yes and no. I think from Vandys side more so than Hornets. Part of me wants to put Hornet higher but it doesn't feel right. And wolves can get pissed if they are not in on such a plan genuinely and Vandy does feel like a me-wolf so from that lens, yeah, I'm kinda sure. Though Wiml is 100% first priority and I'll iso Hornet and try and read him independently. I wouldn't want to kill Hornet just off of that and the posts felt good but as I said something's keeping me.
    Honestly I think this is a little villagery. I don't think w!Pilica would dare to push Hornet after Vandy got killed for it.

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