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Thread: [Suggestion] Rule regarding impersonating moderator communication

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    Wants It More c4e5g3d5's Avatar
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    [Suggestion] Rule regarding impersonating moderator communication

    Quote Originally Posted by c4e5g3d5 (#2589)
    Mentors and Mentees: A Mentor/Mentee Game Day 3 Votecount

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    End day at majority is enabled. With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

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    Aldo was eliminated. They were: Vanilla Town
    I wrote this post in a recent game. Hey, there's only one way to discover what rules we're missing that we need.
    That's a joke don't try this at home.

    This post made people believe Aldo was hammered, which gleaned AI information that would most likely be against the spirit of the game, made people temporarily stop posting because they thought the day was over, and well, also just pissed people off. It was funny as $%#! as of a couple minutes after, but it's the kind of thing that's funny once at most.

    Obviously, if players take, er, juicier fake mod communication to be true, there are serious gamebreaking possibilities. That's something I don't want to experiment with. I probably shouldn't have clowned around even as much as I did.

    I know it's a common rule on some forums for players to be prohibited from using the mod's formatting. A rule prohibiting deliberately impersonating modbot and human hosts would seem analogous.
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    Wants It More c4e5g3d5's Avatar
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    I've been informed that this is possibly already a rule and feel a little dumber.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmo (#848)
    Wht is play by discovery. Lol you discover if the person you flip each day is scum or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#8254)
    i'm gonna go on a walk and i'm gonna buy chicken nuggets. $%#! it all
    Quote Originally Posted by Marluxion (#8282)
    Where did the good vibes go
    Quote Originally Posted by Marluxion (#8284)
    Scum literally nightkilled the good vibes
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#764)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33
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    Soul Reader Syn's Avatar
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    ye it's included in the host comms rule

    though the wording doesn't make that explicit

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    Soul Reader Scyther's Avatar
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    So essentially C4 broke rules and therefore should be retroactively modkilled and town won that game. Hooray!

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    I always thought the host comms rule was about using private host communications(real or fake) in game. Unless you mean a different rule. I think what c4 did is fine

    edit:

    also as long as they arent trying to represent private communications i think its ok to try to do things for reactions since votecounts come from the modbot and actual public host messages are marked as such
    Last edited by bopolis; October 21st, 2021 at 11:27 AM.
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    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
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    Calculated. bopolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#6)
    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
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    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Guys, I've never seen anyone do this before, and it's never been an issue


    So i decided to make it an issue so that we could be sure to add a new rule for the thing that I've never seen done before and has never been an issue


    Thanks for coming to my TED Talk

    /Signed C4

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    Hi! Yes! I am here as the host in this situation! I took this the same way as Ara and Co. did with the fake innocent child reveal in Throne mash 2, in that it was faking a post that was supposed to be reserved for mod communications only. I knew that C4 did not do it out of malicious intent, hence the lack of modkill, but I did directly tell him that he shouldn't be doing it.

    In that game, it was made very clear to us all (the perpetrator was a teammate on the wolfteam) that modposts are not to be faked, regardless of how real or plausible they may look.
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    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#6)
    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
    Because it’s angleshooting usurping mod communications. I’d personally mod kill that.
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    Galaxy Brain Shad's Avatar
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    Ara Lissa Amy Lute and Thingyman have all independently informed me that this is a bad idea.
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    GOAT Tier hollowkatt's Avatar
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    What is the difference between a faked mod post and quote hacking another players post when you're responding to it?

    Like clearly a faked mod post comes from a player, not a moderator/game moderator right? If players are paying attention to who's posting what it should be clear within minutes that the faked mod post isn't actually from a moderator.

    I would argue that this should be a legal action to take within a mafia game and that if you fall for it it's because you're not paying close enough attention.

    To me there's no difference between faking a mod post and doing something like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#10)
    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#6)
    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
    I think this is totally fine, it's something I'd do as a player for the lols
    We all know what Guillo actually said, if we click on the link to go to the post in question, and yet, at first glance the post I "hacked" looks completely legitimate.

    I don't find that to be angleshooting or otherwise against the rules or unwritten rules of mafia.

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    JAMES MCCLOWN Frog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunnelby (#9)
    Hi! Yes! I am here as the host in this situation! I took this the same way as Ara and Co. did with the fake innocent child reveal in Throne mash 2, in that it was faking a post that was supposed to be reserved for mod communications only. I knew that C4 did not do it out of malicious intent, hence the lack of modkill, but I did directly tell him that he shouldn't be doing it.

    In that game, it was made very clear to us all (the perpetrator was a teammate on the wolfteam) that modposts are not to be faked, regardless of how real or plausible they may look.
    Just a clarification, mod posts cannot be faked. The modkill for the innocent child post was for claiming a species group or something in that game which was a game specific rule.

    Having said that, it was a bad joke to post a fake inno child in the first place.

    Just exercise caution and common sense.

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    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowkatt (#12)
    What is the difference between a faked mod post and quote hacking another players post when you're responding to it?

    Like clearly a faked mod post comes from a player, not a moderator/game moderator right? If players are paying attention to who's posting what it should be clear within minutes that the faked mod post isn't actually from a moderator.

    I would argue that this should be a legal action to take within a mafia game and that if you fall for it it's because you're not paying close enough attention.

    To me there's no difference between faking a mod post and doing something like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#10)
    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#6)
    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
    I think this is totally fine, it's something I'd do as a player for the lols
    We all know what Guillo actually said, if we click on the link to go to the post in question, and yet, at first glance the post I "hacked" looks completely legitimate.

    I don't find that to be angleshooting or otherwise against the rules or unwritten rules of mafia.
    I would warn you for that crap if you did it more than once or if it looks like a blatant attempt at framing a player for saying something they didnt actually say. If you quoted me and edited my posts to make it look like i posted it, i would be really mad, i would call you out for it, policy yeet you and blacklist you if you didnt apologize, it is not against the rules but it is just dirty play and it should be against the rules.
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    GOAT Tier hollowkatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#14)
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowkatt (#12)
    What is the difference between a faked mod post and quote hacking another players post when you're responding to it?

    Like clearly a faked mod post comes from a player, not a moderator/game moderator right? If players are paying attention to who's posting what it should be clear within minutes that the faked mod post isn't actually from a moderator.

    I would argue that this should be a legal action to take within a mafia game and that if you fall for it it's because you're not paying close enough attention.

    To me there's no difference between faking a mod post and doing something like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#10)
    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#7)
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
    I think this is totally fine, it's something I'd do as a player for the lols
    We all know what Guillo actually said, if we click on the link to go to the post in question, and yet, at first glance the post I "hacked" looks completely legitimate.

    I don't find that to be angleshooting or otherwise against the rules or unwritten rules of mafia.
    I would warn you for that crap if you did it more than once or if it looks like a blatant attempt at framing a player for saying something they didnt actually say. If you quoted me and edited my posts to make it look like i posted it, i would be really mad, i would call you out for it, policy yeet you and blacklist you if you didnt apologize, it is not against the rules but it is just dirty play and it should be against the rules.
    That is the point of quotehacks yes, is to make the player you're quotehacking look like they said something they didn't. I think it's a function of where I learned to play though. Quotehacks were very common.

    We never had an issue with it though because unless you also edited the post to remove the link back to the original from the player you're quotehacking it only took a click to prove the hacker hacked.

    Likewise, with the tools that MU has available it's super easy to confirm the original post. Same with faked mod posts.

    I get what you're saying though, just don't necessarily agree with it.

    Ultimately yes, I think MU needs to codify whether quotehacks and fake mod posts are against the rules or are fair game. Having something like this be nebulous will only lead to bad feelings and/or games that turn toxic.

    Either it's fine, and everyone knows that it's fine, or it's not fine and the rules are updated to include "cannot fake mod post and cannot quotehack"

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    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowkatt (#15)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#14)
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowkatt (#12)
    What is the difference between a faked mod post and quote hacking another players post when you're responding to it?

    Like clearly a faked mod post comes from a player, not a moderator/game moderator right? If players are paying attention to who's posting what it should be clear within minutes that the faked mod post isn't actually from a moderator.

    I would argue that this should be a legal action to take within a mafia game and that if you fall for it it's because you're not paying close enough attention.

    To me there's no difference between faking a mod post and doing something like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#10)
    I think this is totally fine, it's something I'd do as a player for the lols
    We all know what Guillo actually said, if we click on the link to go to the post in question, and yet, at first glance the post I "hacked" looks completely legitimate.

    I don't find that to be angleshooting or otherwise against the rules or unwritten rules of mafia.
    I would warn you for that crap if you did it more than once or if it looks like a blatant attempt at framing a player for saying something they didnt actually say. If you quoted me and edited my posts to make it look like i posted it, i would be really mad, i would call you out for it, policy yeet you and blacklist you if you didnt apologize, it is not against the rules but it is just dirty play and it should be against the rules.
    That is the point of quotehacks yes, is to make the player you're quotehacking look like they said something they didn't. I think it's a function of where I learned to play though. Quotehacks were very common.

    We never had an issue with it though because unless you also edited the post to remove the link back to the original from the player you're quotehacking it only took a click to prove the hacker hacked.

    Likewise, with the tools that MU has available it's super easy to confirm the original post. Same with faked mod posts.

    I get what you're saying though, just don't necessarily agree with it.

    Ultimately yes, I think MU needs to codify whether quotehacks and fake mod posts are against the rules or are fair game. Having something like this be nebulous will only lead to bad feelings and/or games that turn toxic.

    Either it's fine, and everyone knows that it's fine, or it's not fine and the rules are updated to include "cannot fake mod post and cannot quotehack"
    You overstimate players willingness to double check if a quote has not been tampered with, i sure dont unless it is from a post that caught my attention.
    Framing is a role action for a reason, it allows you to frame a player as mafia with a controlled mechanic, quote hacking… bruh lol, don't do that to me unless it is a joke and you make sure to let everyone know it is a joke.

    But yah i think there should be rules that prohibit that unless in bastard game via mod controlled role actions and mechanics.
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    Calculated. bopolis's Avatar
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    i truely fail to understand the problem with people "faking" modposts when things are already in place to ensure they cant be faked.

    generational thing i guess
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    GOAT Tier hollowkatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#17)
    i truely fail to understand the problem with people "faking" modposts when things are already in place to ensure they cant be faked.

    generational thing i guess
    unless you're quotehacking an existing mod post to say something completely different, and even then players can see the OG anyways, it's impossible to legit fake a mod post.

    It's always going to come from the player making the post and everyone should know at that point they're not the mod lolol
    If they don't it's on them, not the faker

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    Soul Reader Syn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#17)
    i truely fail to understand the problem with people "faking" modposts when things are already in place to ensure they cant be faked.

    generational thing i guess
    ok boomer

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    i have no opinion on this, however

    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#17)
    generational thing i guess
    I really do think there is a generational gap here between myself and a lot of others in this thread. My therapist tells me I am an "old soul" and the the younger generation typically finds things to be rulebreaking according to their feelings rather than logic. This is because the frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed until about 25 years old. So people generally don't understand what rules actually are until about that age. And c4e5g3d5 is conflicting themselves by saying there should be a rule for this but knowingly breaking it already.

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    Responsible for #8 Mistyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowkatt (#12)
    What is the difference between a faked mod post and quote hacking another players post when you're responding to it?

    Like clearly a faked mod post comes from a player, not a moderator/game moderator right? If players are paying attention to who's posting what it should be clear within minutes that the faked mod post isn't actually from a moderator.

    I would argue that this should be a legal action to take within a mafia game and that if you fall for it it's because you're not paying close enough attention.

    To me there's no difference between faking a mod post and doing something like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#10)
    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#6)
    In my opinion it shouldnt be allowed.

    The modpost role exists for a reason and that is to ensure that mod communication cannot be deliberately faked by a player.
    if it is ensured that mod posts can't be faked,

    then why not allow it?
    I think this is totally fine, it's something I'd do as a player for the lols
    We all know what Guillo actually said, if we click on the link to go to the post in question, and yet, at first glance the post I "hacked" looks completely legitimate.

    I don't find that to be angleshooting or otherwise against the rules or unwritten rules of mafia.
    coincidentally both of these are banned on other sites i've played on

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    Soul Reader Syn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#20)
    i have no opinion on this, however

    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#17)
    generational thing i guess
    I really do think there is a generational gap here between myself and a lot of others in this thread. My therapist tells me I am an "old soul" and the the younger generation typically finds things to be rulebreaking according to their feelings rather than logic. This is because the frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed until about 25 years old. So people generally don't understand what rules actually are until about that age. And c4e5g3d5 is conflicting themselves by saying there should be a rule for this but knowingly breaking it already.
    it should be illegal to be this funny

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    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#22)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#20)
    i have no opinion on this, however

    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#17)
    generational thing i guess
    I really do think there is a generational gap here between myself and a lot of others in this thread. My therapist tells me I am an "old soul" and the the younger generation typically finds things to be rulebreaking according to their feelings rather than logic. This is because the frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed until about 25 years old. So people generally don't understand what rules actually are until about that age. And c4e5g3d5 is conflicting themselves by saying there should be a rule for this but knowingly breaking it already.
    it should be illegal to be this funny
    you may need to make a thread for that one since this thread is about a different rule suggestion tbh

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    GOAT Tier bearsquared's Avatar
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    This feels similar to responding to "cliffs?" with "you've been red checked. sorry buddy. time to lolcat". It's a lie that may or may not generate AI reactions. Like they're obviously different, but also the difference is really how dressed up the lie is. I get making fake game host or mafia host posts is kinda sketch, but in the 6 years or whatever this site has been around it's never seriously been a problem though.

    I'd much rather see Mafia Host's posts have a unique style that cannot be replicated by normal players vis a vis host communication posts than a rule

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    I reported the post ingame and got mod feedback that it's not worth actioning so it's not worth actioning gg

  26. ISO #26
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearsquared (#24)
    This feels similar to responding to "cliffs?" with "you've been red checked. sorry buddy. time to lolcat". It's a lie that may or may not generate AI reactions. Like they're obviously different, but also the difference is really how dressed up the lie is. I get making fake game host or mafia host posts is kinda sketch, but in the 6 years or whatever this site has been around it's never seriously been a problem though.

    I'd much rather see Mafia Host's posts have a unique style that cannot be replicated by normal players vis a vis host communication posts than a rule
    I've made Mafia Host posts show the border like game host posts as of now.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  27. ISO #27
    Soul Reader Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison
    @host Please reveal me as Innocent Child now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alison
    @host /dayvig c4
    ^ should be allowed.

    Quotehacking/impersonating mod communication should not be allowed.
    There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.

  28. ISO #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bopolis (#5)
    I always thought the host comms rule was about using private host communications(real or fake) in game. Unless you mean a different rule. I think what c4 did is fine

    edit:

    also as long as they arent trying to represent private communications i think its ok to try to do things for reactions since votecounts come from the modbot and actual public host messages are marked as such
    agree with this

    who gives a $%#! about a faked votecount or edited quotes or a fake IC reveal

    those are all things that can easily proven false (not like back in the day with hand written tallies)

    (and can sometimes be funny)

    i think the only serious issue of this ive seen on MU was when plzleaveduck did it in the ace attorney game (and he was rightfully banned for it)

    otherwise its a nonissue

    you can always see the name of the user who made the post

  29. ISO #29
    Straight White Male wiggles1993's Avatar
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    There's a difference between things that need to be a rulebreak and things that need to just be community policed because its obviously unethical.

    And I agree with katze, all players under the age of 25 should be banned.
    ? ?_? ??

  30. ISO #30
    Calculated. bopolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#29)
    bopolis is right as always and he smells pretty good too
    Can’t argue against this
    Cow - Today at 1:02 AM
    This EoD has given me a deep and profound understanding regarding what it might be liking playing with me when i do stupid $%#! as villager.

  31. ISO #31
    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggles1993 (#29)
    There's a difference between things that need to be a rulebreak and things that need to just be community policed because its obviously unethical.

    And I agree with katze, all players under the age of 25 should be banned.
    There you go. It’s unethical.

    I guess if it is not a rule, the host can incorporate their own rules for their own games and that I shall do! So im not really worried if it becomes a rule or not now.
    Last edited by Guillotina; October 24th, 2021 at 02:27 PM.
    Deck Mafia
    MU Annual Games

    BASTARD CHAMPIONS (MARCH)
    OPEN WORLD (JUNE)
    ANIME WORLD (SEPTEMBER)
    VIDEO GAME WORLD (JANUARY)

  32. ISO #32
    Soul Reader Tsunami's Avatar
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    baffling thread tbh

    +1 hk/bop/nl/bear

    calling quotehacking unethical is. a take i don’t get at all. ww is a lying game, by joining a game you accept that you will be lied to. quotehacking is just a form of lying.

    it’s also generally used as an obvious joke, and regardless, you can click through to the original post, or look it up in the original poster’s iso, or with the lovely “search thread” feature. there’s multiple fairly easy ways to find the truth.

    same deal for faking a modpost - you can see the username and avatar of the person who posts it! it’s literally unfakeable lol. also, anything in the thread is fair game, and that includes modbot posts lol. mod communication that is illegal to fake or discuss at all in the first place is private communication; anything itt is public knowledge and therefore part of the game unless it says not to discuss it, ie subs. for example, it wouldn’t be *nice* to lie abt ita times in a mash, but it sure shouldn’t be illegal bc you can easily look that up in the op yourself. artificial boundaries shouldn’t be enforced just bc ppl can’t handle getting mildly trolled when they have an easy way to fact-check (just iso the mod!).

    i don’t have context for the mentor mentee game, but i read the page or two after that c4 post. from what i saw, most ppl laughed and ~2 ppl got baited. honestly think talking abt “wow that was prob illegal lets make a thread abt this after game ends” was probably worse than the actual post, which really looks no different than any other reaction test.

    don’t handhold players, if you get baited by a reaction test you get baited, lol

  33. ISO #33
    Soul Reader Lag's Avatar
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    This discussion reminds me of this incident:

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...=1#post1225135

    Lots of similar themes between the two. Ultimately though: context is important and the context between c4's post was totally different from the context of the champs game. Having played in the game, C4's post felt pretty clearly like a joke.

    If the exact same styled post was made in F3 as an attempt to gain information, it would arguably be angleshooting.

  34. ISO #34
    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami (#32)
    calling quotehacking unethical is a take I strongly disagree with because I love lying and deceiving players in the most unfun ways possible, by joining a game you accept that you will be lied to even if that is by quoting something you never said because I edited it to make you look like you posted and you know how it is, you can count on players not paying attention to it at all. quotehacking is just a form of lying, cheating is a form of lying too! Why is cheating not allowed though?

    it’s also generally used as an obvious joke, and regardless, you can click through to the original post, or look it up in the original poster’s iso, or with the lovely “search thread” feature. there’s multiple fairly easy ways to find the truth! But of course most people don't do it so I can make you appear claiming Mafia and get yeeted for it like a sucker! hahahaha
    Just wowee
    Deck Mafia
    MU Annual Games

    BASTARD CHAMPIONS (MARCH)
    OPEN WORLD (JUNE)
    ANIME WORLD (SEPTEMBER)
    VIDEO GAME WORLD (JANUARY)

  35. ISO #35
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by c4e5g3d5 (#1)
    we should ban mafia
    agreed!

    more seriously, vote counts are public information and people rarely post fake ones so we don’t think adding a rule to prohibit faking them is necessary

    posting private host communications (whether real or fake) isn’t allowed though!
    Last edited by Hally; October 24th, 2021 at 10:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

  36. ISO #36
    Soul Reader Tsunami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#34)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami (#32)
    calling quotehacking unethical is a take I strongly disagree with because I love lying and deceiving players in the most unfun ways possible, by joining a game you accept that you will be lied to even if that is by quoting something you never said because I edited it to make you look like you posted and you know how it is, you can count on players not paying attention to it at all. quotehacking is just a form of lying, cheating is a form of lying too! Why is cheating not allowed though?

    it’s also generally used as an obvious joke, and regardless, you can click through to the original post, or look it up in the original poster’s iso, or with the lovely “search thread” feature. there’s multiple fairly easy ways to find the truth! But of course most people don't do it so I can make you appear claiming Mafia and get yeeted for it like a sucker! hahahaha
    Just wowee
    lol

    am i supposed to be offended

    bc i’m not

    thanks for demonstrating why there’s nothing wrong with quotehacking tho! as one can see from this example, it’s generally obvious when a quotehack occurs bc the tone most likely won’t match the original poster’s. or the content will obviously be skewed, making one headtilt and realize something is off.

    and you can click thru to my post to see the original version! just one click can save you, too, from quotehacking! try it today!

  37. ISO #37
    Soul Reader Tsunami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#35)
    haha im just a wolf
    that said,

    whoa a wolf claim yeet hally!

    (if ppl yeeted hally here bc of this post, then frankly it’s on them for not checking instead of taking my word for it!

    i think it’s a reach to suggest they’d get axed solely for this outside of like, a super chaotic eod and even then id be surprised)

  38. ISO #38
    Wants It More Guillotina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami (#36)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillotina (#34)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami (#32)
    calling quotehacking unethical is a take I strongly disagree with because I love lying and deceiving players in the most unfun ways possible, by joining a game you accept that you will be lied to even if that is by quoting something you never said because I edited it to make you look like you posted and you know how it is, you can count on players not paying attention to it at all. quotehacking is just a form of lying, cheating is a form of lying too! Why is cheating not allowed though?

    it’s also generally used as an obvious joke, and regardless, you can click through to the original post, or look it up in the original poster’s iso, or with the lovely “search thread” feature. there’s multiple fairly easy ways to find the truth! But of course most people don't do it so I can make you appear claiming Mafia and get yeeted for it like a sucker! hahahaha
    Just wowee
    lol

    am i supposed to be offended

    bc i’m not

    thanks for demonstrating why there’s nothing wrong with quotehacking tho! as one can see from this example, it’s generally obvious when a quotehack occurs bc the tone most likely won’t match the original poster’s. or the content will obviously be skewed, making one headtilt and realize something is off.

    and you can click thru to my post to see the original version! just one click can save you, too, from quotehacking! try it today!
    Yes? I mean i would be if someone intentionally edited my post in a quote to make it appear as i posted some bull$%#!, specially in a game where im investing my time to achieve my wincon.

    Mafia is a game of lies but not all forms of lying should be permitted in this game and luckily for us, they aren't.
    Deck Mafia
    MU Annual Games

    BASTARD CHAMPIONS (MARCH)
    OPEN WORLD (JUNE)
    ANIME WORLD (SEPTEMBER)
    VIDEO GAME WORLD (JANUARY)

  39. ISO #39
    Wants It More TripleHaven's Avatar
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    banning stuff like this could just be up to host discretion, like it already is

    not everything needs to be a site rule especially things that rarely happen
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#284)
    HEY $%#!S
    Since some people obviously don't know this, even though it should be BASIC COMMON SENSE, I guess i have to point it out. if you are PR, and are about to be misyeeted, YOU NEED TO CLAIM. You need to claim with at least 45 seconds, preferably 1 minute left so that people have time to refresh and unvote you. If you claim at 30 seconds, if you claim at 15 seconds, if you don't claim at all, YOU WILL BE MISYEETED. PR staying alive is extremely important for town. There was a post on the general mafia forum about win rates when PR is yeeted D1 in turbos and its 1/14 or some $%#!.

    I'm not going to call this gamethrowing, because some new players might not understand how important PR is to a setup, and others come from sites where you can't claim as PR. But please, for the love of god, claim if you're being killed. Thank you.

    Copypasta over.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser (#5246)
    Just picture King Bowser wearing baggy cargo pants, and trying to shove an enormous fluffy and supremely enraged kitty into his pockets all game, and all that happens is the cat keeps biting him and clawing him and tearing up his scaly flesh, while hissing and screeching with rage the whole time.

    Yet King Bowser is just as stubborn and insists the kitty goes in his pocket, despite numerous failed attempts.

    In the end, kitty was never pocketed. Did not survive the process, but left Bowser bloody and shredded and looking quite the fool.

    Then everyone else in town is like, dude, Bowser, what happened to your faaaaaace. And your cat.

    I uh... cut myself shaving. I'm still totally townie, honest.

    That is the legend of Goat Cat.

  40. ISO #40
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami (#37)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#35)
    haha im just a wolf
    that said,

    whoa a wolf claim yeet hally!
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

  41. ISO #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    I'm gay
    lmao look at this hally is gay

  42. ISO #42
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by tessepia (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    I'm gay
    lmao look at this hally is gay
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

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Beguiler

The Beguiler may every night hide behind a target. Any actions targeted at the Beguiler on this night will instead affect the Beguiler's target. This ability can be used a maximum of 3 times.