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Thread: Add (Dis)Loyal Modifiers (Try 2 hype!)

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Add (Dis)Loyal Modifiers (Try 2 hype!)

    Loyal: Can only target players of the same alignment. If not, they’re roleblocked.

    Disloyal is the same except you can only target players of a different alignment

    Second try, hear me out.

    1. I think it adds more complexity (skill maybe?) to the game, PRs have to be careful with their targets, which I think brings some more spice to the mechanical side of things.

    Like, Loyal Vigilante, which sounds like a troll role but isn’t. Normally (assuming a decent game is happening for town), vig shoots in the POE. Loyal Vigs have to be careful where they shoot in the POE, they want to hit town, not scum, adds some more thought (and skill?) to the role. And on why shooting scum is bad? Well, they essentially get a red check in scum, yes, but it wastes a kill that would help town a lot in narrowing down the POE and just kills someone who would have been killed eventually anyways.

    2, It’s a great balancer.

    I’m going to bring up Loyal Vig again.

    Vig by itself is a very strong role, and can entirely define ate the scumteam by itself, but Loyal Vig can still be strong if played correctly, but now it provides more room for scum.

    And it also offers us as setup designers more room with the setup, more cool combinations and stuff because there’s no really good town role “taking up space”.
    Last edited by Makaze; January 12th, 2022 at 09:52 AM.
    ;-;

  2. ISO #2
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    What happens if you shoot someone outside of the restriction?
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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    GOAT Tier PunchyTheCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2)
    What happens if you shoot someone outside of the restriction?
    i'm assuming they wouldn't die and just stay alive, basically a redcheck for the shooter
    I like mashes

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    Wants It More Wiml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunchyTheCat (#3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2)
    What happens if you shoot someone outside of the restriction?
    i'm assuming they wouldn't die and just stay alive, basically a redcheck for the shooter
    Yeah, the version that I'm aware of has it fail as if roleblocked.

    +1 this suggestion, it's a good modifier.
    Wiml (Tortoise)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#1091)
    You were HAPPY killing two players, two players you voted for, one of which if votes don't change, you will kill, so you being okay with more than one people dying and being happy for it = serial killer. Maybe you also killed KawaiiMeow, because killing makes you happy.

    Turtle the Ripper
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#968)
    Okay this is so funny it needs to be shared, someone on my team was going to ISO "sleep"
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#6141)
    #intortoisewetrust #praisewiml
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#6142)


    wiml carrying the village on his back even from dvc
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunal33 (#44810)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#44779)
    @Melehan you're still self voting BTW.
    you try to townshield Melehan but instead you make an accidental Melehan wagon
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#2734)
    I'm a good turtle trust.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise (#5613)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueKang (#5600)
    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#5599)
    also wiml said and i quote,

    "I'm a good turtle trust."

    you can argue that he says this as an alignment, but why? like, he is saying both he is a good turtle and to trust him. an alignment would know they're good or bad, and therefore not even think to call themselves good and tell people to trust him. therefore, wiml is lock 3p
    also wiml said and i quote,

    "I'm a good turtle trust."

    you can argue that he says this as an alignment, but why? like, he is saying both he is a good turtle and to trust him. an alignment would know they're good or bad, and therefore not even think to call themselves good and tell people to trust him. therefore, wiml is lock wiml
    Genesis 1:3
    "And wiml said, 'I'm a good turtle trust,' and there was trust tbh."

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Nothing happens.

    I said in my original post that they get roleblocked, not exactly how I think the modifier should work in the case of multiple abilities so ignore that.

    Just, that specific action doesn’t go through.
    ;-;

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    GOAT Tier TripleHaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#284)
    HEY $%#!S
    Since some people obviously don't know this, even though it should be BASIC COMMON SENSE, I guess i have to point it out. if you are PR, and are about to be misyeeted, YOU NEED TO CLAIM. You need to claim with at least 45 seconds, preferably 1 minute left so that people have time to refresh and unvote you. If you claim at 30 seconds, if you claim at 15 seconds, if you don't claim at all, YOU WILL BE MISYEETED. PR staying alive is extremely important for town. There was a post on the general mafia forum about win rates when PR is yeeted D1 in turbos and its 1/14 or some $%#!.

    I'm not going to call this gamethrowing, because some new players might not understand how important PR is to a setup, and others come from sites where you can't claim as PR. But please, for the love of god, claim if you're being killed. Thank you.

    Copypasta over.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser (#5246)
    Just picture King Bowser wearing baggy cargo pants, and trying to shove an enormous fluffy and supremely enraged kitty into his pockets all game, and all that happens is the cat keeps biting him and clawing him and tearing up his scaly flesh, while hissing and screeching with rage the whole time.

    Yet King Bowser is just as stubborn and insists the kitty goes in his pocket, despite numerous failed attempts.

    In the end, kitty was never pocketed. Did not survive the process, but left Bowser bloody and shredded and looking quite the fool.

    Then everyone else in town is like, dude, Bowser, what happened to your faaaaaace. And your cat.

    I uh... cut myself shaving. I'm still totally townie, honest.

    That is the legend of Goat Cat.

  7. ISO #7
    GOAT Tier Macdougall's Avatar
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    I like it

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#4)
    Quote Originally Posted by PunchyTheCat (#3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2)
    What happens if you shoot someone outside of the restriction?
    i'm assuming they wouldn't die and just stay alive, basically a redcheck for the shooter
    Yeah, the version that I'm aware of has it fail as if roleblocked.

    +1 this suggestion, it's a good modifier.
    Hi! (One of the) inventors of the Loyal modifier here. This is correct!

    As I'm trying to run a game with such modifiers right now, I might be a little biased, but I vouch for this. If there are any edge cases you wanna discuss with me, please do so!

  9. ISO #9
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#8)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiml (#4)
    Quote Originally Posted by PunchyTheCat (#3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#2)
    What happens if you shoot someone outside of the restriction?
    i'm assuming they wouldn't die and just stay alive, basically a redcheck for the shooter
    Yeah, the version that I'm aware of has it fail as if roleblocked.

    +1 this suggestion, it's a good modifier.
    Hi! (One of the) inventors of the Loyal modifier here. This is correct!

    As I'm trying to run a game with such modifiers right now, I might be a little biased, but I vouch for this. If there are any edge cases you wanna discuss with me, please do so!
    Edge cases to work out:

    Vengeful

    Suicide bomber
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Added. This needs tested on the Beta Modbot.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  11. ISO #11
    Makaze, you are a God. I hope this isn't too much to ask, but while you are add it would you mind adding the weak modifier? I assume it would be almost identical in coding (although I know exactly zero things about coding). Weak modifier means you die if you target a player of the opposite alignment

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    GOAT Tier TripleHaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#11)
    Makaze, you are a God. I hope this isn't too much to ask, but while you are add it would you mind adding the weak modifier? I assume it would be almost identical in coding (although I know exactly zero things about coding). Weak modifier means you die if you target a player of the opposite alignment
    heavy vouch for this also
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#284)
    HEY $%#!S
    Since some people obviously don't know this, even though it should be BASIC COMMON SENSE, I guess i have to point it out. if you are PR, and are about to be misyeeted, YOU NEED TO CLAIM. You need to claim with at least 45 seconds, preferably 1 minute left so that people have time to refresh and unvote you. If you claim at 30 seconds, if you claim at 15 seconds, if you don't claim at all, YOU WILL BE MISYEETED. PR staying alive is extremely important for town. There was a post on the general mafia forum about win rates when PR is yeeted D1 in turbos and its 1/14 or some $%#!.

    I'm not going to call this gamethrowing, because some new players might not understand how important PR is to a setup, and others come from sites where you can't claim as PR. But please, for the love of god, claim if you're being killed. Thank you.

    Copypasta over.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser (#5246)
    Just picture King Bowser wearing baggy cargo pants, and trying to shove an enormous fluffy and supremely enraged kitty into his pockets all game, and all that happens is the cat keeps biting him and clawing him and tearing up his scaly flesh, while hissing and screeching with rage the whole time.

    Yet King Bowser is just as stubborn and insists the kitty goes in his pocket, despite numerous failed attempts.

    In the end, kitty was never pocketed. Did not survive the process, but left Bowser bloody and shredded and looking quite the fool.

    Then everyone else in town is like, dude, Bowser, what happened to your faaaaaace. And your cat.

    I uh... cut myself shaving. I'm still totally townie, honest.

    That is the legend of Goat Cat.

  13. ISO #13
    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#9)
    Edge cases to work out:

    Vengeful

    Suicide bomber
    I would say that both these cases should still fail as if roleblocked if the alignment conditions are right. In the SB case, this would mean they survive as well.

    This gets kinda busted in the case of, say, Town Disloyal Day SB, though, because if they have to declare a target and their shot fails, they basically go from a highly nerfed 1-Shot Vigi to an Innocent Child + Day Cop combo for everyone to see. Unless you like this kind of variance in your games I'd recommend against this combo.

    I'll have more latitude for testing stuff tomorrow!

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    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    imo if a loyal/disloyal suibomber or vengeful targets a player the modifer wouldn't allow it to kill it should just act as if they ave a bpv (hit nobody died) just because the alternatives are all way more broken

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    REVEAL (PART SEVEN)

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    im tired and feel like staying in bed

    also we don’t have enough info to execute someone d1 or something
    This immediately pings me a bit. Partially because i know it's not smart but also seems like he doesn't wanna step on toes so early.
    Yo katze

    I feel like this might have been a joke post

    But also i feel like there's some truth behind every joke and I just got pinged by this

    So can you tell me the rationale behind this post?
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    And if she’s maf then she’s just a borderline sociopath memer girl whose jokes are just lies and her seriousness are just lies and everything about her is a lie and if she flips maf this game and I see her say anything remotely scummy in a future game I’m just gonna death tunnel her to the ends of the earth regardless of how genuine her posts may feel
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    katze how the hell do you have 225 posts in a dead end phase

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Don't think "broken" combos should be treated as something to solve, it's up to the host to make sure they don't put it in their game (or if they do, they balance it nicely).

    And yeah, Vengeful and Suicide Bomber should probably just not hit. For suicide bomber, the suicide bomb action itself was blocked, so no one dies. For vengeful, the vengeful ability was blocked, so the vengeful person dies, but not their target as the action is not directly linked to the vengeful person dying.
    ;-;

  16. ISO #16
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    This still needs tested.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  17. ISO #17
    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Had a Disloyal Mafia Alignment Cop target another mafia, they got a result (which shouldn't happen?).

    Had a Loyal Mafia Alignment Cop target a townie, they got a result too (which also shouldn't happen?).

    Ok, so as expected, Disloyal Mafia targeting Town worked, and Loyal Mafia targeting Mafia worked.

    @Makaze at least for scum, it seems the "roleblock" doesn't process.
    Last edited by Twice Shrunk; January 10th, 2022 at 10:59 AM.
    ;-;

  18. ISO #18
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#17)
    Had a Disloyal Mafia Alignment Cop target another mafia, they got a result (which shouldn't happen?).

    Had a Loyal Mafia Alignment Cop target a townie, they got a result too (which also shouldn't happen?).

    Ok, so as expected, Disloyal Mafia targeting Town worked, and Loyal Mafia targeting Mafia worked.

    @Makaze at least for scum, it seems the "roleblock" doesn't process.
    Did you use the beta version?
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    I’m a dingus.
    ;-;

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Tested both Disloyal SB and Loyal Vengeful today;

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#11)
    DID NOT WORK PROPERLY: GAYveran's Disloyal SB went through on Panda despite them sharing an alignment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#11)
    DID NOT WORK PROPERLY: Panda was able to revenge-shoot SUX (a differing alignment) despite being Loyal.

    This might arise from Vengeful being an action that can't be roleblocked - in which case it might be pertinent to implement a "superblock" attached to the Loyal/Disloyal mods that does affect it.

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    @Makaze whoops

  22. ISO #22
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#21)
    @Makaze whoops
    Did you use the beta?
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  23. ISO #23
    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#22)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#21)
    @Makaze whoops
    Did you use the beta?
    Yes, although now that you mention it, I did edit both games using the normal Modbot menu – don't know if that would invalidate anything
    Last edited by Makaze; January 11th, 2022 at 10:51 AM.

  24. ISO #24
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#23)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#22)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiveran (#21)
    @Makaze whoops
    Did you use the beta?
    Yes, although now that you mention it, I did edit both games using the normal Modbot menu – don't know if that would invalidate anything
    Nope.

    I just noticed you tested the edge cases that would not be affected by roleblocking. I'm not coding for those abilities yet.

    Can you test a normal action?
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

  25. ISO #25
    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Loyal works as intended, tried it with alignment cop.
    ;-;

  26. ISO #26
    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    @Makaze just tested both Loyal and Disloyal Vigilante. Both worked.

  27. ISO #27
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
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    I think having it only affect roles that can be roleblocked makes sense, so this is what I'll stick with for now.
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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    Thread Analyst Kaiveran's Avatar
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    @Makaze understood, thank you.

    I've been working on a system that might enable you (and anyone else writing Mafia software, or even just developing complex roles) to build abilities/modifiers from a basic set of action primitives, rather than just hacking things out on a case by case basis. It's still a long way off, but I'll be sure to share it with you when it's done.

  29. ISO #29
    Wants It More Marshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#10)
    Added. This needs tested on the Beta Modbot.
    but will this be added to the alpha modbot
    or dare I say the sigma modbot
    Marshal#9413

  30. ISO #30
    τη καλλίστη Makaze's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    5,892
    Timezone
    UTC-05:00
    Community
    Serenes Forest
    AKA
    Mak Daddy
    Pronouns
    they/them/their/theirs/themself
    Gender
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#29)
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze (#10)
    Added. This needs tested on the Beta Modbot.
    but will this be added to the alpha modbot
    or dare I say the sigma modbot
    It's already been added to the live version!
    I hold you in the highest regard, my friends.


    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: remember that we are marking down all of your reads to hold for our personal amusement
    [12:09 pm] Cory Curren: anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos (#4807)
    i'm about to make makaze's pronouns was/were

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