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Thread: Best Flavor 13er Night 4
Night 4 

  1. ISO #2451
    Building a Case Limestone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2397)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2395)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2390)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2386)
    *Lime's
    it's not really

    but go on
    Care to share?
    for one, lime's push on empoof never really seemed to be anything more than a prod

    secondly, lime attempted to unvote off of empoof during eod and was late

    so i just have a hard time really giving cred to limestone as a result. i don't think their interactions were really clearing either

    i get that you said it was more so based off of a lack of context but it's only really a good look on a very surface level
    This argument is silly, I only attempted to move off him when it was the last second and he was no longer a viable wagon, I waited there as long as physically possible and voted to save... who was it again ?

    @vanity.

  2. ISO #2452
    Klopp Killa Panther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2431)
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2429)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2404)
    fmpov none of the people who have v read panther have been able to articulate any compelling reason why

    Wolves don’t want it with me

    Villagers don’t find me wolfy. Nobody seems to find me overtly villagy. Props to lissa and riki for gutting it correctly tho. Lissa almost never misses on me when she v reads me, historically. I’m not asking for that to be given weight in this particular game just a nugget for yall

    Pretty simple iyam
    Lissa has called you a villager in every game I have ever played with you two lol

    are you suggesting she's called you out when you wolfed consistently?
    I’m suggesting she hasn’t been able to call me a villa

    I could be wrong just going off of feels

    I think 2019 was the last time I played with any regularity and believe I batted 1.000 at randing villager that whole calendar year

  3. ISO #2453
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2443)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2439)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    if vanity and ladd are v/v the way amrock has treated them is exactly how i would expect a wolf to treat them

    i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy

    i also agree with you that i wouldn’t really expect ladd to die if he’s v regardless of vanity’s alignment

    if vanity is a wolf i think she had enough support D1 from others that leaving ladd alive would be doable assuming she didn’t get vig’d and if ladd died N1 we would have lunched vanity today for sure i think, whereas it doesn’t seem like we will now

    and obviously if vanity is v wolves have no reason to break up v/v violence and would probably try to mislunch ladd after vanity flips
    yeah

    also read riki's ISO and tell me who you think kills him. ladd or vanity killing him doesnt make much sense, and if it was a PR read (based on ??) I imagine they rb him and kill someone who was a more immediate threat.

    amrock tho...

    amrock also had riki as lock clear, and i think wolves are more likely to kill people they know they’ll have to defend if they don’t, or he could have even already decided to kill riki and cleared him for the post flip the cred

    also, i’ve heard amrock talk up riki’s game a ton and based on that + riki wolf reading him consistently i don’t know who else looks at riki’s D1 and says “we need him out of the game” even if they PR read him

    no knock on riki because i’m sure he’s a great player and he made a great shot but based on his impact D1 i don’t think i would ever consider killing him even if i PR read him

  4. ISO #2454
    Zack's Avatar
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    what is ladd's endgame as a wolf with the way he's gone on apogee this game? light v read --> start to turn on him a bit when vanity/lissa wagons were pretty easy --> gets back to apogee lock v today, which probably makes life harder for him

    it makes more sense to me as a genuine progression, it has all seemed pretty reasonable and on the level too.

  5. ISO #2455
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2451)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2397)
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier (#2395)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2390)
    it's not really

    but go on
    Care to share?
    for one, lime's push on empoof never really seemed to be anything more than a prod

    secondly, lime attempted to unvote off of empoof during eod and was late

    so i just have a hard time really giving cred to limestone as a result. i don't think their interactions were really clearing either

    i get that you said it was more so based off of a lack of context but it's only really a good look on a very surface level
    This argument is silly, I only attempted to move off him when it was the last second and he was no longer a viable wagon, I waited there as long as physically possible and voted to save... who was it again ?

    @vanity.
    i would only saved from being defenestrated

    i still would've been the second top wagon, which is a decently likely vig

    if you still think that i was an unlikely vig if i was the only notable counterwagon on the eod vc, then sure i guess

  6. ISO #2456
    Zack's Avatar
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    i guess it could be w/w but like ... why?

    I just fail to find any real issue I have with ladd's play other than "maybe his d1 wolfread was incorrect" which is a ridiculous metric even for someone like ladd.

    i dunno, he's an excellent wolf and all, but I've tried to steer away from going down the rabbit hole of paranoia on strong players who are making completely fine posts that don't trouble me. This isn't ironclad or anything but I don't find any compelling reason to think he isn't town.

  7. ISO #2457
    Klopp Killa Panther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2436)
    I just checked the only game I can recall seeing lissa villa and panther wolf and she had him as a top villa all d1

    ??
    not really a worthwhile conversation but lol maybe she only does call me a villager

    Curious what game

    But ya this isn’t a convo relevant to the game

  8. ISO #2458
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2456)
    i guess it could be w/w but like ... why?

    I just fail to find any real issue I have with ladd's play other than "maybe his d1 wolfread was incorrect" which is a ridiculous metric even for someone like ladd.

    i dunno, he's an excellent wolf and all, but I've tried to steer away from going down the rabbit hole of paranoia on strong players who are making completely fine posts that don't trouble me. This isn't ironclad or anything but I don't find any compelling reason to think he isn't town.
    yeah it's probably not time to kill ladd yet

  9. ISO #2459
    Zack's Avatar
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    After the 18er sk game (lol), I'm not sure he would take the tactic of calling me an obvious villager and saying he has zero paranoia about me if he was a wolf either

  10. ISO #2460
    Klopp Killa Panther's Avatar
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    Might be done for the night

    I thought I’d be seeing more psycho posts but not yet I guess

    Waiting for some lime content too

    @ me if you got anything next 4 hours

  11. ISO #2461
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2331)
    Here are my biggest problems with panther:

    1) His lowpostcount (even tho it's not fair to hold him too this, i've seen v!panther have high postcounts in RL crunched situations before so i still hold this as a fair concern)

    2) Some random posts he's made that make me pinged that he doesn't really care about them and is trying to fake nbeing nuanced/being villagery

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#1051)
    Here’s a silly read that is 99.92% correct on probability

    The team is never apogee/riki/lissa because one of them would have felt compelled to place a vote by now

    .probably unlikely to even be 2 in there. 0 would be dope
    this feels like a pointless post to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2264)
    Just read early ladd again and found it villagy. Not that I wouldn’t. But just, want to work on what is likely true if he is a villager

    And I feel like amrock would likely n1 ladd as a wolf. Not that there couldn’t be a reason he didn’t.

    But if they’re both villagers I feel like the most likely answer is some combo of lime/kat/vanity so I welcome any input on why any 2 of those 3 don’t make sense together. If someone thinks that
    I already mentioned this but of all my posts to make a read, this feels reductive

    3) He was confident enough on w!vanity to post #revotevanity in the thread but then never really followed up on that suspicion starting day 2. Also his switch on zack felt strange to me.



    Other than these 3 things i haven't really seen anything from pantehr that i wouldn't believe is in his v game
    this post is very weird to me because all of these concerns seem more significant than any reason amrock or anyone else has given as to why panther is a villager, yet amrock is willing to brush it all aside and keep v reading panther

    i can’t tell if amrock is a wolf who is scared to push panther (seems unlikely given how much he pushed ladd) or they’re wolves together, but i feel like their treatment of each other is strange and i don’t really get what panther has done to warrant amrock being so hesitant to push him

  12. ISO #2462
    Zack's Avatar
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    when hally makes a post


  13. ISO #2463
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    i mean, amrock has been willing to go after ladd, spf and zack, all of whom i think have been a lot more villagery than panther

    but he won’t even put panther in his PoE?

    am i missing something?

  14. ISO #2464
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2462)
    when hally makes a post

    if you’re a wolf i’m gonna have the biggest egg on my face ever lol

    don’t do it to me

  15. ISO #2465
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2138)
    I hate to turn around on my most explained read so fast but I do think katze's perspective on amrock and I is villagery on this page even without the ate lol
    this is probably the towniest post limestone has made all day, in the sense that i imagine a wolf who had set himself up to hardpush on katze would probably feel reluctant to back away from it so quickly, especially a point when it wasn't really necessary to do so. it felt like limestone got genuinely caught off guard by the way katze was reacting to his push

    the rest of his posts dont really move me that much one way or another

  16. ISO #2466
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    also god i love limestone's avatar lol

  17. ISO #2467
    Zack's Avatar
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    when hally makes a post




    me and ladd in wolfchat


  18. ISO #2468
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2461)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2331)
    Here are my biggest problems with panther:

    1) His lowpostcount (even tho it's not fair to hold him too this, i've seen v!panther have high postcounts in RL crunched situations before so i still hold this as a fair concern)

    2) Some random posts he's made that make me pinged that he doesn't really care about them and is trying to fake nbeing nuanced/being villagery

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#1051)
    Here’s a silly read that is 99.92% correct on probability

    The team is never apogee/riki/lissa because one of them would have felt compelled to place a vote by now

    .probably unlikely to even be 2 in there. 0 would be dope
    this feels like a pointless post to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2264)
    Just read early ladd again and found it villagy. Not that I wouldn’t. But just, want to work on what is likely true if he is a villager

    And I feel like amrock would likely n1 ladd as a wolf. Not that there couldn’t be a reason he didn’t.

    But if they’re both villagers I feel like the most likely answer is some combo of lime/kat/vanity so I welcome any input on why any 2 of those 3 don’t make sense together. If someone thinks that
    I already mentioned this but of all my posts to make a read, this feels reductive

    3) He was confident enough on w!vanity to post #revotevanity in the thread but then never really followed up on that suspicion starting day 2. Also his switch on zack felt strange to me.



    Other than these 3 things i haven't really seen anything from pantehr that i wouldn't believe is in his v game
    this post is very weird to me because all of these concerns seem more significant than any reason amrock or anyone else has given as to why panther is a villager, yet amrock is willing to brush it all aside and keep v reading panther

    i can’t tell if amrock is a wolf who is scared to push panther (seems unlikely given how much he pushed ladd) or they’re wolves together, but i feel like their treatment of each other is strange and i don’t really get what panther has done to warrant amrock being so hesitant to push him
    fwiw i noticed the same about amrock's read on panther (i particularly took issue with the wording of: "i haven't seen anything from panther that i wouldn't believe is his V game", since amrock made a big deal out of saying that everyone here is a good enough wolf to fake posts that look like their V game), and i assumed that there was a meta dynamic/history between amrock and panther that i don't have knowledge of that might make his read make more sense

    but i want him to talk more about his read on panther too

  19. ISO #2469
    Zack's Avatar
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    when spf makes a post



    usually

  20. ISO #2470
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    i dont trust that panda

  21. ISO #2471
    Zack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2470)
    i dont trust that panda
    he trusts u

  22. ISO #2472
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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  23. ISO #2473
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    ^^that's me when i see the panda

  24. ISO #2474
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    rawr

    i'm probably voting psycho or amrock at this rate. i'll probably do an amrock iso before i go to bed to make sure i'm not really bad at mafia

    i am bad at mafia but that's besides the point

  25. ISO #2475
    Zack's Avatar
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  26. ISO #2476
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    i think that my current "one wolf maximum" pool is hally, zack, vanity, and ......probably amrock? i keep going back and forth on whether or not i'm clearing amrock too easily and i'm finding it difficult to balance the issues that i have with the content of some of his posts with his general fluidity/energy being town-indicative and virtually identical to the way i saw him play in the vig 10er game at points. i would put his name there but it's possible i might replace him with apogee

  27. ISO #2477
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2476)
    i think that my current "one wolf maximum" pool is hally, zack, vanity, and ......probably amrock? i keep going back and forth on whether or not i'm clearing amrock too easily and i'm finding it difficult to balance the issues that i have with the content of some of his posts with his general fluidity/energy being town-indicative and virtually identical to the way i saw him play in the vig 10er game at points. i would put his name there but it's possible i might replace him with apogee
    at any rate, if im correct about those names being town, that means there's 2/2 within:

    apogee, panther, ladd, psycho, limestone

    it's an alright place to start, but getting more clarity/confidence on apogee and amrock in particular would be really helpful for my solve right now

  28. ISO #2478
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    i think the names that i actually feel confident about being town atm are just hally/zack/vanity and the rest are weaving in and out

  29. ISO #2479
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    i also think how amrock has treated lime is a bit weird

    he’s voiced a fair amount of suspicion on lime pretty consistently and even dropped a case on lime D1 but it doesn’t feel like anything has ever really come of that or like he’s been seriously interested in pursuing that suspicion

    and his reasons for backing off feel pretty flimsy especially given iirc amrock said lime always fools him as a wolf and last time lime wolfed against amrock in flavorless vig 10er amrock was so shook by how brutally lime pocketed him that he nominated lime for an award after the game lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1785)
    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#1782)
    It could also be lime/x i guess
    I am tunneled on you right now, sorry. If you are a villager I am super sorry


    Okay ACTUALLY going to disengage
    i also don’t understand this reaction

    afaict amrock voiced a fair amount of suspicion on lime at SoD, so why would ladd merely suggesting the possibility lime is a wolf elicit this response from amrock? idgi

  30. ISO #2480
    Zack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2478)
    i think the names that i actually feel confident about being town atm are just hally/zack/vanity and the rest are weaving in and out

  31. ISO #2481
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    i really should read some amrock town games though

    also sorry amrock, i imagine it’s incredibly frustrating for me to constantly nitpick your posts without actually hard pushing you

  32. ISO #2482
    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#2378)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2373)
    ladd, can you go more in depth on amrock?

    you think he can fake everything he’s done so far?
    yes. Hardest thing for him to fake would be his push on me but I went to check our games together and he did try to push me as a wolf early on in a couple of them (most notably in anni 20) but then he gave up relatively quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2373)
    is there anything you think could be outside his wolf range?
    that he did this game? refer to answer above

    in general - he is easier to read with some flips

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2373)
    is this how you think he would play as a wolf?
    from the lissa push to now absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2373)
    can you describe what his wolf game is generally like in your experience?
    very powerwolfy, lots of wim. He is catchable when he makes bad pushes ime

    kinda like gh on steroids



    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2373)
    you don’t actually have to answer each question individually but i’m just trying to get a sense of why you’re not clearing him when he thinks you should be
    I have no idea why he thinks i should be able to clea rhim, i have never been the best amrock reader and he even admitted as much last mash

    i don't even remember the last time i had to make a read on him
    I can understand this post coming from v!ladd easily honestly but it still doesn't convince me that he's town

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2396)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2377)
    i do think amrock/ladd/psycho/lime probably contains both wolves(?), but i'm unsure how to piece it together currently
    why are you clearing panther? sorry if you said and i forgot


    and noted on amrock, ladd

    that… doesn’t make me feel better at all lol

    i was mostly asking because if most people made the posts amrock has made this game i would say they were an obvious villager but i know amrock’s wolf game is basically legendary lol
    With all due respect the bolded is going to be what I post right before EoD and postgame if I end up being misyeeted, just to make me feel better. Are you okay with that lol. I may even make it into a bio for future games, like... normal problems: X Amrock problems: This.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#2405)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2403)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2377)
    i do think amrock/ladd/psycho/lime probably contains both wolves(?), but i'm unsure how to piece it together currently
    do any of those names stand out as not being partnered to you? im tempted to say that ladd/lime dont really work as a team based on the fact that ladd is currently pushing on him

    amrock/psycho doesnt feel super compatible either but id need to look at their interactions to verify

    really?

    seems a bit level 0
    I agree with this

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2407)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2360)
    Out for now, partly to conserve posts, partly so i can do other stuff

    ---

    Amrock

    Hally


    Apogee
    ---

    Zack/Panther

    SPF/Lime/Psycho

    ---

    Vanity/Ladd (1 max)


    Hard game
    sorry if this is an obvious question (i haven't read the last few pages super closely), but where is the belief that the needs to be 1 wolf between ladd/vanity even coming from? i understood what the read was based on during d1, since ladd was hardtunneling on vanity and since you seemed to be coming from the belief that Ladd Wouldn't Be Wrong about how

    but now that ladd isn't tunneling on vanity as much, why are you still holding to the same dichotomy? i'm not saying that ladd/vanity can't hold a wolf, but your insistence that there needs to be a wolf between them feels arbitrary to me
    I don't know how everyone got to ladd got to a "isn't tunneling as much" when he was hard tunneled day 1 and then spent today saying they still thought vanity was a wolf and formulaic, etc? Did I miss something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    Incredibly conf biased thought. Yes, if I WAS a wolf then this could make sense, but this could also make sense if I WASNT a wolf because the wolves would know I pushed on ladd

    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#2430)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange



    i mean if vanity is not a wolf I am never getting nked there regardless of who the wolves are
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2439)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    if vanity and ladd are v/v the way amrock has treated them is exactly how i would expect a wolf to treat them

    i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy

    i also agree with you that i wouldn’t really expect ladd to die if he’s v regardless of vanity’s alignment

    if vanity is a wolf i think she had enough support D1 from others that leaving ladd alive would be doable assuming she didn’t get vig’d and if ladd died N1 we would have lunched vanity today for sure i think, whereas it doesn’t seem like we will now

    and obviously if vanity is v wolves have no reason to break up v/v violence and would probably try to mislunch ladd after vanity flips
    "i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy"

    I don't even think they called it wolfy? I know it would probably make you feel better about your read if your townread said it was wolfy but afaict they just asked a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2443)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2439)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    if vanity and ladd are v/v the way amrock has treated them is exactly how i would expect a wolf to treat them

    i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy

    i also agree with you that i wouldn’t really expect ladd to die if he’s v regardless of vanity’s alignment

    if vanity is a wolf i think she had enough support D1 from others that leaving ladd alive would be doable assuming she didn’t get vig’d and if ladd died N1 we would have lunched vanity today for sure i think, whereas it doesn’t seem like we will now

    and obviously if vanity is v wolves have no reason to break up v/v violence and would probably try to mislunch ladd after vanity flips
    yeah

    also read riki's ISO and tell me who you think kills him. ladd or vanity killing him doesnt make much sense, and if it was a PR read (based on ??) I imagine they rb him and kill someone who was a more immediate threat.

    amrock tho...

    You pushing this over and over has just made my suspicion of you go up every time, honestly, because it makes me feel like I was framed by you. Like there could be millions of reasons Riki was killed but you keep (for like the fourth time today) bringing up this point which is ???? to me? Like why would I even kill riki? I townread riki? Why would I even kill him lmao. I always kill ladd but even if that wasn't true, why would I be more inclined to kill Riki


    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2447)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2443)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2439)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    if vanity and ladd are v/v the way amrock has treated them is exactly how i would expect a wolf to treat them

    i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy

    i also agree with you that i wouldn’t really expect ladd to die if he’s v regardless of vanity’s alignment

    if vanity is a wolf i think she had enough support D1 from others that leaving ladd alive would be doable assuming she didn’t get vig’d and if ladd died N1 we would have lunched vanity today for sure i think, whereas it doesn’t seem like we will now

    and obviously if vanity is v wolves have no reason to break up v/v violence and would probably try to mislunch ladd after vanity flips
    yeah

    also read riki's ISO and tell me who you think kills him. ladd or vanity killing him doesnt make much sense, and if it was a PR read (based on ??) I imagine they rb him and kill someone who was a more immediate threat.

    amrock tho...

    the argument i think is that kills aren't made by just one person, they're made by the team, but i think the point is mostly sound otherwise
    How is this mostly sound lmao it's just zack repeating, oh, amrock would have killed riki because.... there is literally no reason. Just... Amrock knows riki? Amrock townread riki? Riki expressed a light wolfead on Amrock? Why would any of these make me unilterally decide to kill Riki, it's nonsensical. Wolfy at worst and conf biased at best

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2453)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2443)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2439)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2428)
    I wonder if the wolves purposely left ladd alive and gambled on the possibility of vanity getting vig'd, flipping v and making ladd look bad

    incidentally, amrock came in today pushing ladd based on an assumption that vanity was town that I found pretty strange
    if vanity and ladd are v/v the way amrock has treated them is exactly how i would expect a wolf to treat them

    i agree with spf that the way amrock has clung to “there HAS to be a wolf in ladd/van” even as ladd is really not pushing van hard anymore seems wolfy

    i also agree with you that i wouldn’t really expect ladd to die if he’s v regardless of vanity’s alignment

    if vanity is a wolf i think she had enough support D1 from others that leaving ladd alive would be doable assuming she didn’t get vig’d and if ladd died N1 we would have lunched vanity today for sure i think, whereas it doesn’t seem like we will now

    and obviously if vanity is v wolves have no reason to break up v/v violence and would probably try to mislunch ladd after vanity flips
    yeah

    also read riki's ISO and tell me who you think kills him. ladd or vanity killing him doesnt make much sense, and if it was a PR read (based on ??) I imagine they rb him and kill someone who was a more immediate threat.

    amrock tho...

    amrock also had riki as lock clear, and i think wolves are more likely to kill people they know they’ll have to defend if they don’t, or he could have even already decided to kill riki and cleared him for the post flip the cred

    also, i’ve heard amrock talk up riki’s game a ton and based on that + riki wolf reading him consistently i don’t know who else looks at riki’s D1 and says “we need him out of the game” even if they PR read him

    no knock on riki because i’m sure he’s a great player and he made a great shot but based on his impact D1 i don’t think i would ever consider killing him even if i PR read him
    "amrock also had riki as lock clear, and i think wolves are more likely to kill people they know they’ll have to defend if they don’t, or he could have even already decided to kill riki and cleared him for the post flip the cred" I mean...I COULD have killed him for the cred, but that isn't a reason to read me wolf lmao. Also what cred would I even get

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2454)
    what is ladd's endgame as a wolf with the way he's gone on apogee this game? light v read --> start to turn on him a bit when vanity/lissa wagons were pretty easy --> gets back to apogee lock v today, which probably makes life harder for him

    it makes more sense to me as a genuine progression, it has all seemed pretty reasonable and on the level too.
    Ladd's wolfgame doesn't operate on what works with an endgame. In one game (team mafia) he cleared every single remaining player besides like a few people which made people townread him and then he almost won in f4 against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2457)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2436)
    I just checked the only game I can recall seeing lissa villa and panther wolf and she had him as a top villa all d1

    ??
    not really a worthwhile conversation but lol maybe she only does call me a villager

    Curious what game

    But ya this isn’t a convo relevant to the game
    This post is triggering me, I feel like there is so much good dicsussion going on and you're just sitting on the sidelines marinating about non relevant things

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2461)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2331)
    Here are my biggest problems with panther:

    1) His lowpostcount (even tho it's not fair to hold him too this, i've seen v!panther have high postcounts in RL crunched situations before so i still hold this as a fair concern)

    2) Some random posts he's made that make me pinged that he doesn't really care about them and is trying to fake nbeing nuanced/being villagery

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#1051)
    Here’s a silly read that is 99.92% correct on probability

    The team is never apogee/riki/lissa because one of them would have felt compelled to place a vote by now

    .probably unlikely to even be 2 in there. 0 would be dope
    this feels like a pointless post to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2264)
    Just read early ladd again and found it villagy. Not that I wouldn’t. But just, want to work on what is likely true if he is a villager

    And I feel like amrock would likely n1 ladd as a wolf. Not that there couldn’t be a reason he didn’t.

    But if they’re both villagers I feel like the most likely answer is some combo of lime/kat/vanity so I welcome any input on why any 2 of those 3 don’t make sense together. If someone thinks that
    I already mentioned this but of all my posts to make a read, this feels reductive

    3) He was confident enough on w!vanity to post #revotevanity in the thread but then never really followed up on that suspicion starting day 2. Also his switch on zack felt strange to me.



    Other than these 3 things i haven't really seen anything from pantehr that i wouldn't believe is in his v game
    this post is very weird to me because all of these concerns seem more significant than any reason amrock or anyone else has given as to why panther is a villager, yet amrock is willing to brush it all aside and keep v reading panther

    i can’t tell if amrock is a wolf who is scared to push panther (seems unlikely given how much he pushed ladd) or they’re wolves together, but i feel like their treatment of each other is strange and i don’t really get what panther has done to warrant amrock being so hesitant to push him
    Why are the only two options here that I am a wolf? lmao. Like what. I am a villager who has reasons to townread Panther and also reasons to be concerned by him, and I don't like how he's on the wayside for these last few pages so he's trending down for me somewhat

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2463)
    i mean, amrock has been willing to go after ladd, spf and zack, all of whom i think have been a lot more villagery than panther

    but he won’t even put panther in his PoE?

    am i missing something?
    I don't know how to answer this

    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2468)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2461)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2331)
    Here are my biggest problems with panther:

    1) His lowpostcount (even tho it's not fair to hold him too this, i've seen v!panther have high postcounts in RL crunched situations before so i still hold this as a fair concern)

    2) Some random posts he's made that make me pinged that he doesn't really care about them and is trying to fake nbeing nuanced/being villagery

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#1051)
    Here’s a silly read that is 99.92% correct on probability

    The team is never apogee/riki/lissa because one of them would have felt compelled to place a vote by now

    .probably unlikely to even be 2 in there. 0 would be dope
    this feels like a pointless post to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#2264)
    Just read early ladd again and found it villagy. Not that I wouldn’t. But just, want to work on what is likely true if he is a villager

    And I feel like amrock would likely n1 ladd as a wolf. Not that there couldn’t be a reason he didn’t.

    But if they’re both villagers I feel like the most likely answer is some combo of lime/kat/vanity so I welcome any input on why any 2 of those 3 don’t make sense together. If someone thinks that
    I already mentioned this but of all my posts to make a read, this feels reductive

    3) He was confident enough on w!vanity to post #revotevanity in the thread but then never really followed up on that suspicion starting day 2. Also his switch on zack felt strange to me.



    Other than these 3 things i haven't really seen anything from pantehr that i wouldn't believe is in his v game
    this post is very weird to me because all of these concerns seem more significant than any reason amrock or anyone else has given as to why panther is a villager, yet amrock is willing to brush it all aside and keep v reading panther

    i can’t tell if amrock is a wolf who is scared to push panther (seems unlikely given how much he pushed ladd) or they’re wolves together, but i feel like their treatment of each other is strange and i don’t really get what panther has done to warrant amrock being so hesitant to push him
    fwiw i noticed the same about amrock's read on panther (i particularly took issue with the wording of: "i haven't seen anything from panther that i wouldn't believe is his V game", since amrock made a big deal out of saying that everyone here is a good enough wolf to fake posts that look like their V game), and i assumed that there was a meta dynamic/history between amrock and panther that i don't have knowledge of that might make his read make more sense

    but i want him to talk more about his read on panther too
    Ya we've played quite a bit and I specced his v games religiously to improve as a villager when I was in 2017 and very very bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2479)
    i also think how amrock has treated lime is a bit weird

    he’s voiced a fair amount of suspicion on lime pretty consistently and even dropped a case on lime D1 but it doesn’t feel like anything has ever really come of that or like he’s been seriously interested in pursuing that suspicion

    and his reasons for backing off feel pretty flimsy especially given iirc amrock said lime always fools him as a wolf and last time lime wolfed against amrock in flavorless vig 10er amrock was so shook by how brutally lime pocketed him that he nominated lime for an award after the game lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#1785)
    Quote Originally Posted by ladd (#1782)
    It could also be lime/x i guess
    I am tunneled on you right now, sorry. If you are a villager I am super sorry


    Okay ACTUALLY going to disengage
    i also don’t understand this reaction

    afaict amrock voiced a fair amount of suspicion on lime at SoD, so why would ladd merely suggesting the possibility lime is a wolf elicit this response from amrock? idgi
    That didn't elicit the reaction, I just responded to a random ladd post. I don't understand your concerns about my treatment of lime but can answer questions if you want

    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#2481)
    i really should read some amrock town games though



    also sorry amrock, i imagine it’s incredibly frustrating for me to constantly nitpick your posts without actually hard pushing you
    It's not frustrating at all, but I hope you do recognized that you (and zack) have entered conf bias mode to the extreme

  33. ISO #2483
    I don't understand SPF and their read on vanity. If they were so incredibly strong on vanity, why didn't they push more to save them EOD1? That feels like something v!spf would do. I just feel like you are repping this incredibly strong read on vanity but not actually trying to save them from like

    Me
    Ladd

    Idk who else

    Who thinks they are a wolf. Like you aren't refuting any points, any anything, didn't try and save them EoD1 (unless I missed this, then can you point it out)


    Why are you so strongly townreading vanity anyway?

  34. ISO #2484
    Zack's Avatar
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    ##Vote Amrock

    bye

  35. ISO #2485
    I'm not incredibly impressed with psycho's posting thus far

    I don't like panther's posting on the last few pages and his engagement level from what I remember of his V game

    From the stuff I've talked to people about zack in the last few pages, I'm inclined to at least lean V on him

    So I'm kinda just at like

    Amrock, Hally, apogee as villagers, zack as a probable villager.

    The rest of the people are a blob of people that I like for various reasons and dislike for various reasons. What a mess

  36. ISO #2486
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2483)
    I don't understand SPF and their read on vanity. If they were so incredibly strong on vanity, why didn't they push more to save them EOD1? That feels like something v!spf would do. I just feel like you are repping this incredibly strong read on vanity but not actually trying to save them from like

    Me
    Ladd

    Idk who else

    Who thinks they are a wolf. Like you aren't refuting any points, any anything, didn't try and save them EoD1 (unless I missed this, then can you point it out)


    Why are you so strongly townreading vanity anyway?
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?

    also i'm not sure if their read now and their read on eod1 are the same or really comparable. idk i'd need spf to clarify

    ^see there spf. would like to know if your read on me has evolved from eod1 to now

  37. ISO #2487
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2484)
    ##Vote Amrock

    bye
    I honestly have hated the way you've treated me this game.

    But at least you have the balls to vote me now like youve clearly been aluding to, instead of leading a CFD on me like you did on day 1

    This post is not alignment indicative

  38. ISO #2488
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?
    I mean, it's not meta based, it's just knowledge of the fact that SPF is a super strong villager and I would just... imagine they would save one of their only v reads if they were up for being voted out for EoD? Like I would have fought like HELL if one of my few villagers was being considered (which to be fair was only Hally and Riki, but still)

  39. ISO #2489
    I really do feel like everyone who is townreading SPF and Ladd really shouldn't be doing it right now tbh

    Even if they are a villager I really think they could be in both metas so far (with maaybe the exception of SPF's posting last night which felt kinda different)

    Which means if you are townreading them imo it is mostly luck if you are correct


    - Signed, a recipient of someone who was brutalized by both of these players in the past

  40. ISO #2490
    Building a Case Limestone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2489)
    I really do feel like everyone who is townreading SPF and Ladd really shouldn't be doing it right now tbh

    Even if they are a villager I really think they could be in both metas so far (with maaybe the exception of SPF's posting last night which felt kinda different)

    Which means if you are townreading them imo it is mostly luck if you are correct


    - Signed, a recipient of someone who was brutalized by both of these players in the past
    I don't trust ladd yeah

    Spf seems town to me outside of a select few weird reads which I'll take to be more relevant for them if wolf but their behavior is generally villagery.

  41. ISO #2491
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2488)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?
    I mean, it's not meta based, it's just knowledge of the fact that SPF is a super strong villager and I would just... imagine they would save one of their only v reads if they were up for being voted out for EoD? Like I would have fought like HELL if one of my few villagers was being considered (which to be fair was only Hally and Riki, but still)
    huh?

    @staypositivefriend how do you usually treat village reads that you have that are getting wagoned?

    also can you address my prior thing too, since i pinged you?

  42. ISO #2492
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2483)
    I don't understand SPF and their read on vanity. If they were so incredibly strong on vanity, why didn't they push more to save them EOD1? That feels like something v!spf would do. I just feel like you are repping this incredibly strong read on vanity but not actually trying to save them from like

    Me
    Ladd

    Idk who else

    Who thinks they are a wolf. Like you aren't refuting any points, any anything, didn't try and save them EoD1 (unless I missed this, then can you point it out)


    Why are you so strongly townreading vanity anyway?
    i'm not sure how else i could have "saved" vanity on d1 save for kicking and screaming and demanding that everyone listen to me. i was vocal about the fact that i townread her, i was vocal about my reasons for townreading her, and i started the counterwagon (lissa) that played a big role in taking her out of contention in the first place

    if it got down to the final 20 minutes of the day and i thought that vanity had a serious chance of going over, i probably would have defended her harder, but it honestly never felt that way to me. maybe we just have different definitions of what "saving" someone looks like

    also, i've explained my townread on vanity multiple times at this point....have you just not seen it? (p#1089) i will grant that my read on her has developed quite a bit since then and i haven't really found the right way to put it into words yet. i can try to explain my reasoning more in-depth once i get off work if it's something you care about

  43. ISO #2493
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2490)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2489)
    I really do feel like everyone who is townreading SPF and Ladd really shouldn't be doing it right now tbh

    Even if they are a villager I really think they could be in both metas so far (with maaybe the exception of SPF's posting last night which felt kinda different)

    Which means if you are townreading them imo it is mostly luck if you are correct


    - Signed, a recipient of someone who was brutalized by both of these players in the past
    I don't trust ladd yeah

    Spf seems town to me outside of a select few weird reads which I'll take to be more relevant for them if wolf but their behavior is generally villagery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Limestone (#2490)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2489)
    I really do feel like everyone who is townreading SPF and Ladd really shouldn't be doing it right now tbh

    Even if they are a villager I really think they could be in both metas so far (with maaybe the exception of SPF's posting last night which felt kinda different)

    Which means if you are townreading them imo it is mostly luck if you are correct


    - Signed, a recipient of someone who was brutalized by both of these players in the past
    I don't trust ladd yeah

    Spf seems town to me outside of a select few weird reads which I'll take to be more relevant for them if wolf but their behavior is generally villagery.
    What are you feeling right now, got a readslist? Want to try and work together on some reads? We always work well together and I feel like I'm clashing with most of this playerlist. It looks like it could be us as the wagons today lol. I thought the way you responded to katze was really villagery and the way you are reading me slightly villagfwiw but I'm still kinda hesitant on you overall because I'm so paranoid and idk some other reasons lol

  44. ISO #2494
    Zack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2487)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2484)
    ##Vote Amrock

    bye
    I honestly have hated the way you've treated me this game.

    But at least you have the balls to vote me now like youve clearly been aluding to, instead of leading a CFD on me like you did on day 1

    This post is not alignment indicative
    I don't know why you keep trying to make this personal, all I have done is point out things you've done I find wolfy in a game where my job is to find wolves. you are the only person who has a problem with me, afaict, meanwhile several other people have agreed that you have been constantly disingenuous in your interactions with people. That's wolfy behavior. if you are a villager idk what on earth you are doing with how you keep interacting with me, it's like you are being intentionally and pointlessly difficult and then blaming everything on me and criticizing my behavior. You are so incredibly dismissive of everything I say and never have made any effort to engage with me. Go re-read how I posted and how you responded to me in 2482, it's really over the top when I'm just voicing reasonable suspicions in a perfectly reasonable way. I'm done talking with you is this is how it's gonna be dude

    I don't understand what the second line is even supposed to mean, I was solidly on katze all day until they claimed vig and the wagon was no longer a thing

  45. ISO #2495
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2491)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2488)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?
    I mean, it's not meta based, it's just knowledge of the fact that SPF is a super strong villager and I would just... imagine they would save one of their only v reads if they were up for being voted out for EoD? Like I would have fought like HELL if one of my few villagers was being considered (which to be fair was only Hally and Riki, but still)
    huh?

    @staypositivefriend how do you usually treat village reads that you have that are getting wagoned?

    also can you address my prior thing too, since i pinged you?
    tbh i'm not sure how to answer this because it's so dependent on the context - i am not the type of player that will loudly demand that people stop voting for my townreads unless i feel incredibly confident that theyre town and unless they are actively in danger of dying

    in a case where one of my townreads is in danger of dying and i'm not thrilled with any of the existing wagons, i usually go out of my way to create new wagons or navigate people to different options (which is more or less what i did with lissa toward the EOD1)

    amrock's understanding of my meta and how i play as town in the last 2 posts is ....not great, regardless of his alignment

    also sorry, what other thing are you talking about?

  46. ISO #2496
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2494)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2487)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#2484)
    ##Vote Amrock

    bye
    I honestly have hated the way you've treated me this game.

    But at least you have the balls to vote me now like youve clearly been aluding to, instead of leading a CFD on me like you did on day 1

    This post is not alignment indicative
    I don't know why you keep trying to make this personal, all I have done is point out things you've done I find wolfy in a game where my job is to find wolves. you are the only person who has a problem with me, afaict, meanwhile several other people have agreed that you have been constantly disingenuous in your interactions with people. That's wolfy behavior. if you are a villager idk what on earth you are doing with how you keep interacting with me, it's like you are being intentionally and pointlessly difficult and then blaming everything on me and criticizing my behavior. You are so incredibly dismissive of everything I say and never have made any effort to engage with me. Go re-read how I posted and how you responded to me in 2482, it's really over the top when I'm just voicing reasonable suspicions in a perfectly reasonable way. I'm done talking with you is this is how it's gonna be dude

    I don't understand what the second line is even supposed to mean, I was solidly on katze all day until they claimed vig and the wagon was no longer a thing
    I don't want to get into a back and forth but I will say this: It's really nothing personal and I will hold literally nothing against you postgame. Everything is in the game for me and I do a good job at compartmentalizing that, so yeah nothing personal. Even the people i absolutely hate the most in game (like phighter) i still like out of game and you aren't even close to that level

  47. ISO #2497
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2489)
    I really do feel like everyone who is townreading SPF and Ladd really shouldn't be doing it right now tbh

    Even if they are a villager I really think they could be in both metas so far (with maaybe the exception of SPF's posting last night which felt kinda different)

    Which means if you are townreading them imo it is mostly luck if you are correct


    - Signed, a recipient of someone who was brutalized by both of these players in the past
    i probably shouldn't bother responding to this, but i think this is a bad way to think about mafia. most people in this game are still within both of their ranges and most people in this game are also competent enough to make extremely villagery sounding posts as a wolf. if your baseline for whether or not you should be townreading someone is: "are they outside of their wolfrange?", then it means that you're not going to townread anyone in this game in the first place

    i dont even think this reasoning is an alignment indicative thing for you, but it's a pet peeve of mine and i think it leads to people losing games more often than not

  48. ISO #2498
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2495)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2491)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2488)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?
    I mean, it's not meta based, it's just knowledge of the fact that SPF is a super strong villager and I would just... imagine they would save one of their only v reads if they were up for being voted out for EoD? Like I would have fought like HELL if one of my few villagers was being considered (which to be fair was only Hally and Riki, but still)
    huh?

    @staypositivefriend how do you usually treat village reads that you have that are getting wagoned?

    also can you address my prior thing too, since i pinged you?
    tbh i'm not sure how to answer this because it's so dependent on the context - i am not the type of player that will loudly demand that people stop voting for my townreads unless i feel incredibly confident that theyre town and unless they are actively in danger of dying

    in a case where one of my townreads is in danger of dying and i'm not thrilled with any of the existing wagons, i usually go out of my way to create new wagons or navigate people to different options (which is more or less what i did with lissa toward the EOD1)

    amrock's understanding of my meta and how i play as town in the last 2 posts is ....not great, regardless of his alignment

    also sorry, what other thing are you talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2483)
    I don't understand SPF and their read on vanity. If they were so incredibly strong on vanity, why didn't they push more to save them EOD1? That feels like something v!spf would do. I just feel like you are repping this incredibly strong read on vanity but not actually trying to save them from like

    Me
    Ladd

    Idk who else

    Who thinks they are a wolf. Like you aren't refuting any points, any anything, didn't try and save them EoD1 (unless I missed this, then can you point it out)


    Why are you so strongly townreading vanity anyway?
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?

    also i'm not sure if their read now and their read on eod1 are the same or really comparable. idk i'd need spf to clarify

    ^see there spf. would like to know if your read on me has evolved from eod1 to now
    this post. particularly what was bolded

    your answer basically confirms to me that it's a bizarre point from amrock to say "spf should've fought against the vanity wagon harder" when to me you seem very much like a calm and collected player that doesn't usually do that, so i'm not sure why amrock is substantiating his argument with "i would've hard defended a strong village read if i was a villager!"

    it just doesn't really fit right. i get amrock doesn't have a ton of experience with you, but i feel like i haven't played with you a lot either, and "playstyle differences" seems like a really obvious answer here

  49. ISO #2499
    plinko boards and waterfalls vanity.'s Avatar Moderator
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    honestly it'd probably be stranger if spf did actually hard defend me when i was only periodically a top wagon during that eod

  50. ISO #2500
    scary pink lady staypositivefriend's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2498)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#2495)
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2491)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2488)
    I mean, it's not meta based, it's just knowledge of the fact that SPF is a super strong villager and I would just... imagine they would save one of their only v reads if they were up for being voted out for EoD? Like I would have fought like HELL if one of my few villagers was being considered (which to be fair was only Hally and Riki, but still)
    huh?

    @staypositivefriend how do you usually treat village reads that you have that are getting wagoned?

    also can you address my prior thing too, since i pinged you?
    tbh i'm not sure how to answer this because it's so dependent on the context - i am not the type of player that will loudly demand that people stop voting for my townreads unless i feel incredibly confident that theyre town and unless they are actively in danger of dying

    in a case where one of my townreads is in danger of dying and i'm not thrilled with any of the existing wagons, i usually go out of my way to create new wagons or navigate people to different options (which is more or less what i did with lissa toward the EOD1)

    amrock's understanding of my meta and how i play as town in the last 2 posts is ....not great, regardless of his alignment

    also sorry, what other thing are you talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by vanity. (#2486)
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrock (#2483)
    I don't understand SPF and their read on vanity. If they were so incredibly strong on vanity, why didn't they push more to save them EOD1? That feels like something v!spf would do. I just feel like you are repping this incredibly strong read on vanity but not actually trying to save them from like

    Me
    Ladd

    Idk who else

    Who thinks they are a wolf. Like you aren't refuting any points, any anything, didn't try and save them EoD1 (unless I missed this, then can you point it out)


    Why are you so strongly townreading vanity anyway?
    can you show me something that lines up with spf trying to save her v reads on d1?

    also i'm not sure if their read now and their read on eod1 are the same or really comparable. idk i'd need spf to clarify

    ^see there spf. would like to know if your read on me has evolved from eod1 to now
    this post. particularly what was bolded

    your answer basically confirms to me that it's a bizarre point from amrock to say "spf should've fought against the vanity wagon harder" when to me you seem very much like a calm and collected player that doesn't usually do that, so i'm not sure why amrock is substantiating his argument with "i would've hard defended a strong village read if i was a villager!"

    it just doesn't really fit right. i get amrock doesn't have a ton of experience with you, but i feel like i haven't played with you a lot either, and "playstyle differences" seems like a really obvious answer here
    amrock has only played with me as a wolf, and my wolfgame actually is quite aggressive and domineering and focused on steering the chops in an ideal direction - it's possible that amrock is just assuming that i take a similar approach to mafia as both alignments, without realizing that my wolfgame tends to be more aggressive and my towngame tends to be more pulled back and analytical

    at least, that's the most generous interpretation of amrock's point that i can think of right now lol

    and my read on you has developed since d1, in the sense that i feel slightly more confident that youre probably just town, but it's not really something i'd be able to explain without putting a lot of careful thought into it (which i cant do rn cause i'm multi-tasking). that said, i think that a lot of the core reasoning i had to townread you for on d1 is still applicable to my read on you today as well

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