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Thread: Season 9, Game 7: Fate of Iberia [Mafia Championship]

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    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    Over the last two years, the median number of posts on day 1 in games where town wins was 1,426 posts on day 1.

    The median number of posts on day 1 in games where mafia wins was 1,007.


    Empirically speaking, encouraging lower levels of activity is anti-town.

    Every post and every interaction contributes to the cumulative set of interactions between players in this game, it contributes to the set of knowledge we have to pull from in order to make informed reads. Is it possible that you can get so many posts that thread and read quality begins to degrade? Yes.

    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day? It seems unlikely.

  2. ISO #52
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#47)
    Hi everyone, I'm Seven. My types are Alisha Wainwright, who starred in the show Raising Dion, and Misaki Tamori from Terrace House: Boys and Girls in the City. Please check out their respective instagrams.

    I am probably the greatest player you'll ever meet which is why everyone at my home site elected me to represent them. In games where I live through the game, I have a 100% win rate. And on that note, I recommend we elim Wisp before he changes my mind.

    ##Vote Wisp


    ##Vote Wisp

  3. ISO #53
    Thread Analyst supershorty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day?
    How do you know this?

  4. ISO #54
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#7)
    (That's Loona from Helluva Boss, right?)
    gunna chill with the fluff for bit after this
    but tidbit, me and Shin both have posters signed by voice actors from Helluva boss, I have Blitz picture signed by Brandon Rogers, who makes hilarious videos btw, while he has one of Luna signed by her VA

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    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#29)
    My question on how many posts people expect to make each day wasn't a fluff question, I actually would like it if everyone answered it
    i honestly dont know, i tend to cap quite easily if im drawn into a game but im also gonna try taking my own advice
    I encourage you to cap. I view a player like you purposefully holding back in post count as a wolfy play, making yourself not be as prominent of a voice in order to potentially justify why you'd still be alive on later days.

  6. ISO #56
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty (#53)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day?
    How do you know this?
    Because I looked up past games of as many of you as I could before this game started, of course!

    Some of you have very confusing websites to navigate.

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    Soul Reader Shinichi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#29)
    My question on how many posts people expect to make each day wasn't a fluff question, I actually would like it if everyone answered it
    5 Posts every 5 mins.

  8. ISO #58
    Bandwagoner DrDoomIQ's Avatar
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    I shall endeavor to speak frequently!

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    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    high psot count != good content, but 150 isn't really a post count that I think causes a problem with flooding of the thread, but given I play on FoL, I have a different opinion of high posts counts where games can reach upwards of 15,000 posts

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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    I'll speak from experience wrt my last champs game, it was terrible specifically because of how many members of of the game were inactive and playing wolfy that it defo made it difficult to look at actual scum even though I had called out said scum for their behavior, I get really upset thinking about that game but I think a focus on being townie and hunting for Town is a really good look. That game continues to frustrate me because it is not like scum went under my radar it was like Town was just impossible to work with, not to say I didn't misplay that game, but I definitely feel like that loss was not my fault.

    Regardless my point is a lot of that game had that vibe of "everyone just feels scummy to me" which I think is an incredibly difficult environment to play through. Now by saying "let's town hunt" there is a fear of like looking at every post wanting to find the town in it if that makes sense? But I think overall qual games are like everyone disagrees with everyone $%#!fests which, as you said, is a result of a lot of players wanting to be "that guy" and get a red check instantly instead of actually winning mafia, which I think is a result of the Champs Format. Wrt your 3rd point, I feel like that's just a basic critical thinking skill, everything has nuance to it, but it's still important to read why certain slots disagree with you because it's often AI.

  11. ISO #61
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#48)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#45)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#43)
    @illario what draws you into a game?
    usually based on playerlist and games where everyone else is engaged
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"

  12. ISO #62
    Soul Reader Spiderz's Avatar
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    Oh, I'm a pretty slow typer, so I'm sorry if I lag behind because I also like analyzing posts quite a bit.

  13. ISO #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    Over the last two years, the median number of posts on day 1 in games where town wins was 1,426 posts on day 1.

    The median number of posts on day 1 in games where mafia wins was 1,007.


    Empirically speaking, encouraging lower levels of activity is anti-town.

    Every post and every interaction contributes to the cumulative set of interactions between players in this game, it contributes to the set of knowledge we have to pull from in order to make informed reads. Is it possible that you can get so many posts that thread and read quality begins to degrade? Yes.

    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day? It seems unlikely.
    I was debating whether to include that last point or not because on a surface level it sorta goes against what I’m trying to say in the first point. I agree that discouraging activity can be seen as anti town, I was moreso trying to get at that avoiding a threadstate where everyone is posting walls in every second post. But in hindsight that’s probably more of a problem with later stages of champs

  14. ISO #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderz (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    I'll speak from experience wrt my last champs game, it was terrible specifically because of how many members of of the game were inactive and playing wolfy that it defo made it difficult to look at actual scum even though I had called out said scum for their behavior, I get really upset thinking about that game but I think a focus on being townie and hunting for Town is a really good look. That game continues to frustrate me because it is not like scum went under my radar it was like Town was just impossible to work with, not to say I didn't misplay that game, but I definitely feel like that loss was not my fault.

    Regardless my point is a lot of that game had that vibe of "everyone just feels scummy to me" which I think is an incredibly difficult environment to play through. Now by saying "let's town hunt" there is a fear of like looking at every post wanting to find the town in it if that makes sense? But I think overall qual games are like everyone disagrees with everyone $%#!fests which, as you said, is a result of a lot of players wanting to be "that guy" and get a red check instantly instead of actually winning mafia, which I think is a result of the Champs Format. Wrt your 3rd point, I feel like that's just a basic critical thinking skill, everything has nuance to it, but it's still important to read why certain slots disagree with you because it's often AI.
    is there anything you've drawn from your experiences that game that you wish town had done differently that you think we should incorporate here?

  15. ISO #65
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    I'd rather have walls honestly

    @Schiavetto
    underwhelming in a wolfy way?

  16. ISO #66
    Thread Analyst supershorty's Avatar
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    This post is tickling me a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second .
    Something about the second half of this sentence just feels a little off to me. It's a bit "my fellow villagers."

    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them
    All of this doesn't sit quite right with me either. It would make sense to say things like this in a game with a lot of noobs, but in a game with experienced players who presumably were nominated by their communities to get here (or volunteered to go, I guess?), it feels like saying a lot of fairly obvious gameplay theory that people will already know. It looks like a wall of pro-village text, but it's also the kind of thing someone might post to LOOK like they're pro-village without really contributing.

    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important!
    *squints*
    I'm assuming this is supposed to say "please do NOT" as opposed to the most - but I don't really understand or agree with this perspective in a mountainous game. The best way for town to find other town is to talk and show their thought processes... you can make this argument for PRs not outting themselves, but that's not applicable in this game.

    I want to keep an eye on this slot, something about that post just didn't sit quite right with me.

  17. ISO #67
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#63)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    Over the last two years, the median number of posts on day 1 in games where town wins was 1,426 posts on day 1.

    The median number of posts on day 1 in games where mafia wins was 1,007.


    Empirically speaking, encouraging lower levels of activity is anti-town.

    Every post and every interaction contributes to the cumulative set of interactions between players in this game, it contributes to the set of knowledge we have to pull from in order to make informed reads. Is it possible that you can get so many posts that thread and read quality begins to degrade? Yes.

    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day? It seems unlikely.
    I was debating whether to include that last point or not because on a surface level it sorta goes against what I’m trying to say in the first point. I agree that discouraging activity can be seen as anti town, I was moreso trying to get at that avoiding a threadstate where everyone is posting walls in every second post. But in hindsight that’s probably more of a problem with later stages of champs
    It takes a lot of activity before thread state starts to suffer. I think that this game would be far better off with a 2000 post day 1 than with an 800 post day 1.

    Fluff posting is also totally fine, some people are very good at making reads just off of fluffposting after all.

  18. ISO #68
    Soul Reader Shinichi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through

  19. ISO #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#48)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#45)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#43)
    @illario what draws you into a game?
    usually based on playerlist and games where everyone else is engaged
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.

  20. ISO #70
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#65)
    I'd rather have walls honestly

    @Schiavetto
    underwhelming in a wolfy way?
    maybe? it's certainly not generative, which is a turnoff for me early on

  21. ISO #71
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    I mean I get what Illario is trying to say, but I think its a bit silly to hold thoughts because u are afraid of how wolves will use them, which I assume is the main gist of that paragraph

  22. ISO #72
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#48)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#45)
    usually based on playerlist and games where everyone else is engaged
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?

  23. ISO #73
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    as far as volume goes, i'm honestly much more concerned with it in the context of like, synchronous/asynchronous interactions than postcount in isolation &walls &whatnot

  24. ISO #74
    Thread Analyst supershorty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#71)
    I mean I get what Illario is trying to say, but I think its a bit silly to hold thoughts because u are afraid of how wolves will use them, which I assume is the main gist of that paragraph
    What in that paragraph led you to this conclusion?

  25. ISO #75
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    honestly in hindsight I think discouraging activity is counter-intuitive to the whole bringing up my game's sweep, where we won because we were drowning out the wolves, working together, and posting

  26. ISO #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#48)
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.

  27. ISO #77
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty (#74)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#71)
    I mean I get what Illario is trying to say, but I think its a bit silly to hold thoughts because u are afraid of how wolves will use them, which I assume is the main gist of that paragraph
    What in that paragraph led you to this conclusion?
    because that tends to be the counter point, some people tend to like keeping their thoughts close to their chest because they are afraid of giving wolves ammunition

  28. ISO #78
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.
    qualifiers vs semis vs finals are so different that they're nearly different games (well, semis and finals are probably not that different)

    In my data set I didn't even bother to spend time including semifinals/finals data because this isn't semifinals, nor is it finals.


    Did you write your wall before or after rand?

  29. ISO #79
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Fwiw I'm also kind of cautious of the uptick in furrowed brows and grumpy frowns @ the bespoke Illario post, but also like


    decent chunk of the roster hasn't showed yet, so i'm happy togood just kind of speaking that into the air and letting it float

  30. ISO #80
    Thread Analyst supershorty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.
    I mean, "please do not just spill info on the thread" (not is my assumption since the actual quote makes less sense) is a bit different from "please don't wall post all the time"

  31. ISO #81
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    @illario
    What is your process for finding wolves usually?

  32. ISO #82
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#61)
    circling back to this, maybe it's just me but "when everyone else is engaged" is
    such an underwhelming response to "what engages you?"
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.
    do you think this is a roster that needs to be corralled/directed on that (or any) front?

  33. ISO #83
    Bandwagoner Meowlson's Avatar
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    Uh, not as many as I should. That's how many...

  34. ISO #84
    Thread Analyst supershorty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty (#74)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#71)
    I mean I get what Illario is trying to say, but I think its a bit silly to hold thoughts because u are afraid of how wolves will use them, which I assume is the main gist of that paragraph
    What in that paragraph led you to this conclusion?
    because that tends to be the counter point, some people tend to like keeping their thoughts close to their chest because they are afraid of giving wolves ammunition
    I understand that, but that wasn't really what I was asking you. What specifically in what Illario said led you to the conclusion that that was the conclusion they wanted people to take away from it?

  35. ISO #85
    Soul Reader Spiderz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    Over the last two years, the median number of posts on day 1 in games where town wins was 1,426 posts on day 1.

    The median number of posts on day 1 in games where mafia wins was 1,007.


    Empirically speaking, encouraging lower levels of activity is anti-town.

    Every post and every interaction contributes to the cumulative set of interactions between players in this game, it contributes to the set of knowledge we have to pull from in order to make informed reads. Is it possible that you can get so many posts that thread and read quality begins to degrade? Yes.

    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day? It seems unlikely.

    I don't think that a higher post count necessarily means that town has a higher winrate. I think what is happening is that in the games that mafia wins there are a lot fewer active participants of town, meaning there are a lot of people who post like 13 times a day which makes the game extremely difficult for even the best town members because those slots are essentially coin flips because of the lack of content. I think that there is a certain threshold of posting where there is a sufficient amount of info for any player to read a slot and as long as we all reach that threshold, that will be good.

    But I overall agree that the more info we have the better especially if a lot of players in this PL are not used to high posting, what do you think specifically about hunting for town philosophy?

  36. ISO #86
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meowlson (#83)
    Uh, not as many as I should. That's how many...
    Hi Meowlson, could you describe your meta then?

  37. ISO #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#78)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.
    qualifiers vs semis vs finals are so different that they're nearly different games (well, semis and finals are probably not that different)

    In my data set I didn't even bother to spend time including semifinals/finals data because this isn't semifinals, nor is it finals.


    Did you write your wall before or after rand?
    After rand but I had the backbone and knew what I wanted to say in it soon after g4 ended

  38. ISO #88
    Wants It More Wisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty (#84)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty (#74)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#71)
    I mean I get what Illario is trying to say, but I think its a bit silly to hold thoughts because u are afraid of how wolves will use them, which I assume is the main gist of that paragraph
    What in that paragraph led you to this conclusion?
    because that tends to be the counter point, some people tend to like keeping their thoughts close to their chest because they are afraid of giving wolves ammunition
    I understand that, but that wasn't really what I was asking you. What specifically in what Illario said led you to the conclusion that that was the conclusion they wanted people to take away from it?
    that's my assumption
    /shrug

  39. ISO #89
    Soul Reader Lumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderz (#85)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#51)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    Over the last two years, the median number of posts on day 1 in games where town wins was 1,426 posts on day 1.

    The median number of posts on day 1 in games where mafia wins was 1,007.


    Empirically speaking, encouraging lower levels of activity is anti-town.

    Every post and every interaction contributes to the cumulative set of interactions between players in this game, it contributes to the set of knowledge we have to pull from in order to make informed reads. Is it possible that you can get so many posts that thread and read quality begins to degrade? Yes.

    Does that seem likely given this playerlist, consisting of many players who have never even reached 150 posts in a day in any FM games they've ever played? Many never even reaching 100 posts in a single day? It seems unlikely.

    I don't think that a higher post count necessarily means that town has a higher winrate. I think what is happening is that in the games that mafia wins there are a lot fewer active participants of town, meaning there are a lot of people who post like 13 times a day which makes the game extremely difficult for even the best town members because those slots are essentially coin flips because of the lack of content. I think that there is a certain threshold of posting where there is a sufficient amount of info for any player to read a slot and as long as we all reach that threshold, that will be good.

    But I overall agree that the more info we have the better especially if a lot of players in this PL are not used to high posting, what do you think specifically about hunting for town philosophy?
    This is definitely true in many ways, a major theme in the games that seemed the most hopeless was a glut of low posters.

    And I absolutely agree with hunting for town. It's easier to find an obv-town than an obv-wolf.

  40. ISO #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#81)
    @illario
    What is your process for finding wolves usually?
    It’s similar to what I suggested, form a towncore and then scrutinize the rest, and if it’s in a lobby where I have meta on people then I do lean on that a fair bit d1.

  41. ISO #91
    Soul Reader Shinichi's Avatar
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    I see no reason to keep thoughts to yourself regardless of how mafia may use them, because those thoughts could be what catches a scum aligned player.

  42. ISO #92
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Chad do you think I'm scum

  43. ISO #93
    Soul Reader Schiavetto's Avatar
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    Miles should answer this too

  44. ISO #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#82)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#76)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag (#72)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#69)
    i can see why youd think that, fwiw im someone who tends to feed of the energy of others both in game and out.
    If you feed off of the energy of others, why did you include the part about discouraging activity? Presumably you would do best in an environment where people are just pouring energy into the thread?
    i wasnt discouraging activity, i was discouraging massive walls of text continously. the best reference i can think of is grand final last year where there was too much information to process that everyone began to speak past each other rather than at each other.
    do you think this is a roster that needs to be corralled/directed on that (or any) front?
    time will tell

  45. ISO #95
    Soul Reader Spiderz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderz (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    I'll speak from experience wrt my last champs game, it was terrible specifically because of how many members of of the game were inactive and playing wolfy that it defo made it difficult to look at actual scum even though I had called out said scum for their behavior, I get really upset thinking about that game but I think a focus on being townie and hunting for Town is a really good look. That game continues to frustrate me because it is not like scum went under my radar it was like Town was just impossible to work with, not to say I didn't misplay that game, but I definitely feel like that loss was not my fault.

    Regardless my point is a lot of that game had that vibe of "everyone just feels scummy to me" which I think is an incredibly difficult environment to play through. Now by saying "let's town hunt" there is a fear of like looking at every post wanting to find the town in it if that makes sense? But I think overall qual games are like everyone disagrees with everyone $%#!fests which, as you said, is a result of a lot of players wanting to be "that guy" and get a red check instantly instead of actually winning mafia, which I think is a result of the Champs Format. Wrt your 3rd point, I feel like that's just a basic critical thinking skill, everything has nuance to it, but it's still important to read why certain slots disagree with you because it's often AI.
    is there anything you've drawn from your experiences that game that you wish town had done differently that you think we should incorporate here?
    Yeah, not play like utter garbage and mindlessly townread high posters because they are high posting and you can not be bothered to actually read large posts so you just automatically townread it just because it's high volume

    "oMg plAyEr X, lOokS reAllY mOtiVateD tHey aRe ToWN"

    It's a pretty big pet peeve of mine in general but like I can't really change peoples playstyles. In general it's just better if everyone Actually Reads Posts

    That game just felt like any normal game with an overwhelming amount of bad town.


    I'm curious btw, what do you think your strengths are as town

  46. ISO #96
    Bandwagoner Meowlson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meowlson (#83)
    Uh, not as many as I should. That's how many...
    Oo, that didn't quote. Sorry, still trying to figure this website out. I usually play on Discord, well, always...
    I was responding to... Someone's post about how much they expect us to talk or something of the sort. Trying to catch up and I'm already confuddled. xD

  47. ISO #97

  48. ISO #98
    Soul Reader Shinichi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#92)
    Chad do you think I'm scum
    I think you are a good player in the right environment, but it's hard to tell with you playing on MU away from psers.

  49. ISO #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderz (#95)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#64)
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderz (#60)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#34)
    A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

    -This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

    - if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

    -a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in alignment. The most common type of misread I see people tend to make is if : let’s say x is villager. X townreads A and scumreads B. Y who is also a villager, either scumreads A or townreads B or both. X then starts to tunnel Y for reading the game differently to them. Villagers don’t have tmi and two people almost never read the game the same. If someone is reading things differently to you, communicate first and understand their thought process before you start deathtunneling them

    - please do most just spill info into the thread, restraint at times is important! reader fatigue builds up and the games I’ve found most tough to sort is when the thread has ballooned out of size with wallpost after wallpost (after this post I will try and limit my own walls too). Especially for those alive in later days it makes it harder for them to read back and sort if they have hundreds of walls to dig through
    I'll speak from experience wrt my last champs game, it was terrible specifically because of how many members of of the game were inactive and playing wolfy that it defo made it difficult to look at actual scum even though I had called out said scum for their behavior, I get really upset thinking about that game but I think a focus on being townie and hunting for Town is a really good look. That game continues to frustrate me because it is not like scum went under my radar it was like Town was just impossible to work with, not to say I didn't misplay that game, but I definitely feel like that loss was not my fault.

    Regardless my point is a lot of that game had that vibe of "everyone just feels scummy to me" which I think is an incredibly difficult environment to play through. Now by saying "let's town hunt" there is a fear of like looking at every post wanting to find the town in it if that makes sense? But I think overall qual games are like everyone disagrees with everyone $%#!fests which, as you said, is a result of a lot of players wanting to be "that guy" and get a red check instantly instead of actually winning mafia, which I think is a result of the Champs Format. Wrt your 3rd point, I feel like that's just a basic critical thinking skill, everything has nuance to it, but it's still important to read why certain slots disagree with you because it's often AI.
    is there anything you've drawn from your experiences that game that you wish town had done differently that you think we should incorporate here?
    Yeah, not play like utter garbage and mindlessly townread high posters because they are high posting and you can not be bothered to actually read large posts so you just automatically townread it just because it's high volume

    "oMg plAyEr X, lOokS reAllY mOtiVateD tHey aRe ToWN"

    It's a pretty big pet peeve of mine in general but like I can't really change peoples playstyles. In general it's just better if everyone Actually Reads Posts

    That game just felt like any normal game with an overwhelming amount of bad town.


    I'm curious btw, what do you think your strengths are as town
    Correctly finding lhf villagers and finding deepwolves lategame

  50. ISO #100
    Soul Reader Shinichi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinichi (#98)
    Quote Originally Posted by Schiavetto (#92)
    Chad do you think I'm scum
    I think you are a good player in the right environment, but it's hard to tell with you playing on MU away from psers.
    I supposed this didn't answer your question, to be frank I have no freaking clue it's too early for that $%#!.

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The Bounty Hunter is an independently aligned role that starts the game with an assassination target. The Bounty Hunter may kill another player every night. If they kill their target, they will win the game.