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Thread: fix compulsive "error"

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    fix compulsive "error"

    so, im running a test and i have the compulsive role oracle set to kill the person who gets nked, then i dayvig them

    at sod2, this is what it says in red next to where it says your target above the submission box: (Dead / Please reset)

    after i dayvig the oracle the role reveal is still on the dead person

    for compulsive roles, after this happens (current target dies), could it automatically randomize between all valid options instead of still targeting the dead player?

    test: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37001-b
    Last edited by Twice Shrunk; August 3rd, 2022 at 02:04 PM.

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    idk if this has been seen or not so just gonna bump it

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    Galaxy Brain Jaleb's Avatar
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    I think if they choose to target someone the bot shouldn't choose to change for them. Oracles reveal dead players all the time. Happens
    Last edited by Jaleb; August 5th, 2022 at 07:14 PM.
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    I think there are situations were people might want it to work either way

    Might be worth adding a modifier that allows you to target dead players or something like that
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  5. ISO #5
    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Oracle is a Night Action

    So what modbot says during the day phase shouldn't matter at all. Their target is still the dead player until the next night.

    Even if you the role automatically changed to a new target, that target would not be set until night 2.

    I'm confused about your test case here...why are you dayvigging them? It makes the whole thing moot
    Last edited by Apoc; August 6th, 2022 at 03:57 AM.

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    Wants It More DkKoba's Avatar
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    the oracle is a role from Epicmafia - so I can explain that this is not how the role is intended to work at all the way you want it to.

    The target only updates as part of a night action, not as a passive action. So if you end up on the nightkill, tough luck, you need to survive to next night to update it.

    If this role is changed, it makes setups that are designed to use them(such as Jan 3.0) not work properly.

    Oracle is primarily designed as a town role and is used that way in most cases so if you want it to work the way you want it to - it is probably better to do it manually.
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    Wants It More DkKoba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezradekezra (#4)
    I think there are situations were people might want it to work either way

    Might be worth adding a modifier that allows you to target dead players or something like that
    Role Oracle cannot choose dead players(it doesn't target btw)

    It chooses a player and if that player happens to die overnight oh well, that's how it is, your choice is still that player.


    It works with Janitor though - which is a case where that might be actually beneficial.
    "1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you has this way with yourself.
    You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#5)
    Oracle is a Night Action

    So what modbot says during the day phase shouldn't matter at all. Their target is still the dead player until the next night.

    Even if you the role automatically changed to a new target, that target would not be set until night 2.

    I'm confused about your test case here...why are you dayvigging them? It makes the whole thing moot
    The problem here is that your starting assumption - that it is a night action - is incorrect. Or, at least, it's not programmed that way into Modbot.

    You can run a test game yourself to test that, I don't have any test games to back this up but I ran a game a few months ago with role oracle and have just double checked the host info thread and the oracle (with zero modifiers) changed their target during the day.

    I agree with the logic, but again, you're starting with a flawed assumption so this is moot.

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    I'd also like to clarify that this case is only when the oracle has the compulsive modifier attached to it.

    Compulsive means that the player must submit a valid target, and if their target gets nked, well, they're not longer a valid target.

    And, as role oracle can submit at anytime, a compulsive role oracle should have to retarget immediately after the player becomes no longer a valid target, or have the result randomized.

    I also don't think the argument that dead players are valid targets holds water here either, as if that were the case, then you should be able to select them in the dropdown menu. You can't.

    All these arguments are based off how oracle is currently programmed into modbot, so I also don't think arguments about how oracle is supposed to work exactly make sense in this context - those would be better said in another thread suggesting changes to the way it is currently programmed.
    Last edited by Twice Shrunk; August 6th, 2022 at 04:41 PM.

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    Wants It More DkKoba's Avatar
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    It was just explained to you that its a night action and cant be updated. The box on the bottom is just a queue to preselect for the next night
    "1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you has this way with yourself.
    You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    This is demonstrably false, like I just said, in a game I ran a few months ago, the role oracle actively updated their sub during the day, and I know this because I asked the oracle to test if they could idle and the update showed up immediately in host info thread.

    If it was preselect it would only be updated in that thread at the start of night.

  12. ISO #12
    Season 8 Champze katze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#11)
    I asked the oracle to test if they could idle and the update showed up immediately in host info thread.

    If it was preselect it would only be updated in that thread at the start of night.
    im fairly sure the bolded is false

    e: can confirm with 100% certainty that it is, in fact, false, as in a game i've hosted i have a player updating their action during the day phase despite it being very much so a night action
    Last edited by katze; August 6th, 2022 at 07:45 PM.

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    Wants It More DkKoba's Avatar
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    Thats not how it should work lol
    "1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you has this way with yourself.
    You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    My bad.

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    That being said, it seems very much that oracle works at anytime.

    Ran a test, oracle subbed action D1, when they got hanged D1 the action still went through.

    If it was a night action and worked as per how Koba said, the result should have been that there was no reveal.

    Test: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37021-p
    Last edited by Twice Shrunk; August 6th, 2022 at 08:03 PM.

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    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#8)
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc (#5)
    Oracle is a Night Action

    So what modbot says during the day phase shouldn't matter at all. Their target is still the dead player until the next night.

    Even if you the role automatically changed to a new target, that target would not be set until night 2.

    I'm confused about your test case here...why are you dayvigging them? It makes the whole thing moot
    The problem here is that your starting assumption - that it is a night action - is incorrect. Or, at least, it's not programmed that way into Modbot.

    You can run a test game yourself to test that, I don't have any test games to back this up but I ran a game a few months ago with role oracle and have just double checked the host info thread and the oracle (with zero modifiers) changed their target during the day.

    I agree with the logic, but again, you're starting with a flawed assumption so this is moot.
    the modbot role thread says its a Night Action

    you tests in the OP seem to indicate its a night action
    Last edited by Apoc; August 7th, 2022 at 06:08 PM.

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    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#9)
    I'd also like to clarify that this case is only when the oracle has the compulsive modifier attached to it.

    Compulsive means that the player must submit a valid target, and if their target gets nked, well, they're not longer a valid target.

    And, as role oracle can submit at anytime, a compulsive role oracle should have to retarget immediately after the player becomes no longer a valid target, or have the result randomized.

    I also don't think the argument that dead players are valid targets holds water here either, as if that were the case, then you should be able to select them in the dropdown menu. You can't.

    All these arguments are based off how oracle is currently programmed into modbot, so I also don't think arguments about how oracle is supposed to work exactly make sense in this context - those would be better said in another thread suggesting changes to the way it is currently programmed.
    It's a compulsive night action, the target was valid when it was chosen

  18. ISO #18
    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#11)
    This is demonstrably false, like I just said, in a game I ran a few months ago, the role oracle actively updated their sub during the day, and I know this because I asked the oracle to test if they could idle and the update showed up immediately in host info thread.

    If it was preselect it would only be updated in that thread at the start of night.
    If the dropdown is used during the day...it is a pre-submission. It is still a night action and will be processed as such.

    Caveat: I've never used an Oracle in modbot, but the modbot thread and common sense both say the above assertion is correct
    Last edited by Apoc; August 7th, 2022 at 06:11 PM.

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    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Town Role Oracle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host
    Town Role Oracle

    "As Town Role Oracle, you have access to the Divine Role Night Action."


    Last edited by Apoc; August 7th, 2022 at 06:13 PM.

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    five people have died Apoc's Avatar Game Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice Shrunk (#15)
    That being said, it seems very much that oracle works at anytime.

    Ran a test, oracle subbed action D1, when they got hanged D1 the action still went through.

    If it was a night action and worked as per how Koba said, the result should have been that there was no reveal.

    Test: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37021-p
    Looks like a bug to me! This whole thread makes way more sense now

    I pinged Makaze in your test thread
    Last edited by Apoc; August 7th, 2022 at 06:18 PM.

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    mindmelding with an image of a brick Twice Shrunk's Avatar
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    Cool.

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