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Thread: New Flake Moderation Policy Feedback 2: Revenge of the Sith

  1. ISO #51
    GOAT Tier neopest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#49)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#43)
    I would also like to see multigaming rules change to account for multiple games each being their own individual sub effort - if you ruin multiple games at the same time, how is that better than one game one month and another the next? You should always think very carefully about signing up for multiple games and frankly, multigaming tends to hurt game integrity and game experience anyway.
    When you can't ask why someone subbed out and you treat them all the same, you should base the policy on the most innocent reasons, not the ones that upset you the most IYAM.

    Scenario: A player is a god at multitabling with no known issues or sub outs. They are playing 2+ games at the same time. Their child goes missing. They sub out of all of the games.

    Is giving them a ban for this appropriate? If you think we should give an exception for this reason, then you go back to asking for reasons and assessing seriousness all over again, defeating the point of the policy.

    If not, what about banning multitabling entirely in case life happens? One person having an emergency can't impact multiple games if they can only be in one at a time.
    I know this is silly to pick on the example given when it isn't the point of the post, but imagine losing your kid long enough to make you stop playing day+ long phases and giving any $%#!s about a 1 month ban on forum Mafia.

    Now if we imaging a player gets in a terrible car accident. In their semi lucid state in-between all the emergency services and waiting to be prepped for emergency surgery their brain won't let them ignore their Mafia game. So they send their host a pm, "car accident, it's real bad please sub"

    The player undergoes life saving surgery, but lost both their legs. While grappling with this massive paradigm shift to all their hopes, dreams, and aspirations for life. Trying to comprehend how they will adjust, where can they find any ray of happiness through the fog of despair they are feeling.

    A thought occurs, at least they will have a ridiculous amount of time to devote to forum Mafia during their bed rest recovery over the next month before the physical therapy and stress of considering how they will keep their jobs starts. At least they are a full complete person in forum Mafia. In that medium they are able to be their full selves still. They could even imagine forgetting the accident for a few minutes at a time while being fully invested in a reply.

    They open up MU and see a pm. "Oh someone is checking to see if I am ok, I suppose that message I sent was ominous."

    "You are banned for 1 month for ruining multiple games when you subbed out. Please be more considerate to others, and manage your time/expectations better in future. Feel free to use this month to reflect on how to not be a game ruiner. Regards, mods"
    No, you don't understand. They wouldn't be in the hospital recovering after surgery, they'd be in prison for ruining multiple people's games on Mafia Universe!

  2. ISO #52
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#49)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#43)
    I would also like to see multigaming rules change to account for multiple games each being their own individual sub effort - if you ruin multiple games at the same time, how is that better than one game one month and another the next? You should always think very carefully about signing up for multiple games and frankly, multigaming tends to hurt game integrity and game experience anyway.
    When you can't ask why someone subbed out and you treat them all the same, you should base the policy on the most innocent reasons, not the ones that upset you the most IYAM.

    Scenario: A player is a god at multitabling with no known issues or sub outs. They are playing 2+ games at the same time. Their child goes missing. They sub out of all of the games.

    Is giving them a ban for this appropriate? If you think we should give an exception for this reason, then you go back to asking for reasons and assessing seriousness all over again, defeating the point of the policy.

    If not, what about banning multitabling entirely in case life happens? One person having an emergency can't impact multiple games if they can only be in one at a time.
    I know this is silly to pick on the example given when it isn't the point of the post, but imagine losing your kid long enough to make you stop playing day+ long phases and giving any $%#!s about a 1 month ban on forum Mafia.

    Now if we imaging a player gets in a terrible car accident. In their semi lucid state in-between all the emergency services and waiting to be prepped for emergency surgery their brain won't let them ignore their Mafia game. So they send their host a pm, "car accident, it's real bad please sub"

    The player undergoes life saving surgery, but lost both their legs. While grappling with this massive paradigm shift to all their hopes, dreams, and aspirations for life. Trying to comprehend how they will adjust, where can they find any ray of happiness through the fog of despair they are feeling.

    A thought occurs, at least they will have a ridiculous amount of time to devote to forum Mafia during their bed rest recovery over the next month before the physical therapy and stress of considering how they will keep their jobs starts. At least they are a full complete person in forum Mafia. In that medium they are able to be their full selves still. They could even imagine forgetting the accident for a few minutes at a time while being fully invested in a reply.

    They open up MU and see a pm. "Oh someone is checking to see if I am ok, I suppose that message I sent was ominous."

    "You are banned for 1 month for ruining multiple games when you subbed out. Please be more considerate to others, and manage your time/expectations better in future. Feel free to use this month to reflect on how to not be a game ruiner. Regards, mods"
    That's kind of my point: The tone should be matter of fact and as sympathetic as it needs to be. Send the message as if reason for the sub out is not their fault, don't make them feel bad, etc. Just do what needs to be done for the site. It's not about them ruining games. It's about avoiding ruining more games. No frills or assumptions needed.
    Last edited by Pan; September 2nd, 2022 at 11:37 AM.

  3. ISO #53
    GOAT Tier neopest's Avatar
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    Anyways, people are mistaking my point and saying that I believe subs should not be moderated at all. When what I'm really saying is that frivolous subs such as RWSTFO, I got bored, etc. should be moderated harshly, but that sub outs that are related to emergencies and outside of the player's hands should not be.

    I already reported someone who went through the latter and they got very upset with me, so already people are taking it this way even if that's not the intention.

  4. ISO #54
    There will be an adjustment period until people get used to "Subbing results in x, subbing twice results in y" change. That will go away with time. Every major game system uses a policy like this without problems. If anything, the thing they have over a site like MU is that you literally can't appeal it and it isn't done by interacting with a person. If you drop, you have consequences. No one talks to you. You can't message back. It's automatic. People live with it.

    MU will get up to speed soon.

  5. ISO #55
    GOAT Tier hollowkatt's Avatar
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    I've come to the conclusion that no exceptions should be made at all.

    The policy needs to be consistently applied and as written you basically get one free sub out per yearish of time.
    Subbing out harms games. Harms them more than modkills in my opinion. I come from a relatively small community where replacement players are frequently impossible to find as everyone interested in a game has already signed up for it.

    In that situation the host has three choices:
    1. Modkill
    2. Call the game
    3. Take no action and force the players to fix it for them

    Certain events on MU, like Champs, can be argued that substitute players are a necessary evil, but I would argue that anything below Champs modkill is actually a better solution than a sub.

    Does it suck to end the game on a modkill, for sure it does. Does it suck even more to suddenly add new perspectives to a game that's ongoing, changing the balance from what it was, changing what people have been planning potentially for weeks, or even months in the case of long form games?

    I think it does.

    But since I'm in the minority here on whether or not modkill is preferable to subbing players out I think it's pretty clear that the policy needs to begin by being applied stringently, and as time goes on if stringent application is doing more harm than good examine whether or not more leniency is required.

    Frankly it does not matter to the game and its integrity the reason that you had to leave. The disruption is the same regardless of whether or not you hate your rand or got into a car crash.

    The reason for the policy is NOT to punish players for subbing, and I think people are getting hung up on that. The reason for the policy is to protect game health.

    Focusing on a punitive/punishment aspect of the policy takes away from the understanding that the reason the policy exists is to protect games, not players.

    None of us is more important than the game we signed up for. When we sign up we enter a collective agreement that we're undertaking this adventure together, and we're making something unique, special, and alive, and replacing parts of that collective do irreparable harm to the collective we're attempting to build.

  6. ISO #56
    GOAT Tier hollowkatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neopest (#53)
    Anyways, people are mistaking my point and saying that I believe subs should not be moderated at all. When what I'm really saying is that frivolous subs such as RWSTFO, I got bored, etc. should be moderated harshly, but that sub outs that are related to emergencies and outside of the player's hands should not be.

    I already reported someone who went through the latter and they got very upset with me, so already people are taking it this way even if that's not the intention.
    I think because the conversation is being framed around what's "good" for the player and not what's "good" for the game.

    Remove the individual from the equation and examine only "how does the substitution impact the ongoing game". People have feelings, I get that, but people also aren't being explained what the true purpose of the policy is. Perhaps that's a failing on the part of the policy designers, I dunno. Messaging is important.

  7. ISO #57
    Wants It More AndrewGreve's Avatar
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    I think each and every one of you are individually more important than every single game of Mafia ever played combined

  8. ISO #58
    GOAT Tier neopest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#54)
    There will be an adjustment period until people get used to "Subbing results in x, subbing twice results in y" change. That will go away with time. Every major game system uses a policy like this without problems. If anything, the thing they have over a site like MU is that you literally can't appeal it and it isn't done by interacting with a person. If you drop, you have consequences. No one talks to you. You can't message back. It's automatic. People live with it.

    MU will get up to speed soon.
    These games do not last 2 weeks and the punishment for these games is often a 15 minute time out lol.
    Last edited by neopest; September 2nd, 2022 at 11:56 AM.

  9. ISO #59
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#57)
    I think each and every one of you are individually more important than every single game of Mafia ever played combined
    An individual player's right to play future games shouldn't be protected harder than the health of the ongoing game.

  10. ISO #60
    Wants It More AndrewGreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#59)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#57)
    I think each and every one of you are individually more important than every single game of Mafia ever played combined
    An individual player's right to play future games shouldn't be protected harder than the health of the ongoing game.
    The privilege of playing forum Mafia is less important than the game itself, yes.

  11. ISO #61
    Quote Originally Posted by neopest (#58)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#54)
    There will be an adjustment period until people get used to "Subbing results in x, subbing twice results in y" change. That will go away with time. Every major game system uses a policy like this without problems. If anything, the thing they have over a site like MU is that you literally can't appeal it and it isn't done by interacting with a person. If you drop, you have consequences. No one talks to you. You can't message back. It's automatic. People live with it.

    MU will get up to speed soon.
    These games do not last 2 weeks and the punishment for these games is often a 15 minute time out lol.
    The bigger the investment, the bigger the loss when the game is compromised. The time out length should be proportional to the investment needed to complete a full game IMO, if not more.

    Suppose that a game takes 45 minutes, and you can join and drop from 3 games in the span of 1 full game. That's not good policy IYAM. The math doesn't check out. First ban should be the full duration of the game you dropped at the very least, if not double or something, to protect the most games possible.

  12. ISO #62
    Soul Reader CatgirlMaple's Avatar
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    The one time a flake mod messaged me wrt subbing out of a turbo (the pizza incident, iykyk) I said "I had to sub out because my dog was on fire". The response was an apology for bothering me and well wishes to my dog.

    Now, I thought such an obvious joke would not be taken seriously. However, what if I was telling the truth? Whether an individual is telling the truth or not is pretty much irrelevant because it's too risky to assume they aren't. To that end, it's simpler and leaves less emotional labour for what is, in the end, a volunteer staff of people with no professional training.

    We are on a mafia site after all

  13. ISO #63
    Galaxy Brain alexa's Avatar
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    The lack of empathy for people whose dogs are actually on fire is astounding.
    Quote Originally Posted by marry (#1747)
    also asking myself which of you kept me alive over Alexa because you knew Alexa would look into your medical file, your social security number, and your credit history before she was sure who's town and whos not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Parente (#9861)
    Alexa has tmi tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by PunchyTheCat (#13680)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#13663)
    $%#! it
    This is for you alexa
    min
    oh boy what a surprise another alexa endorsed green flip
    Quote Originally Posted by The Front Man (#13695)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#13663)
    $%#! it
    This is for you alexa
    min

    BANG

    Contestant 24 has been eliminated!

    Wolf
    You are contestant number 24
    Please remember to submit your collective actions for night 1 and night 2!
    You win when all villagers are dead. Good luck!
    The gamethread is here . Join the wolfchat here to see your teammates (this is mandatory): HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaner (#13749)
    Rich shoot alexa to make the game more fair
    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#10757)
    pockety $%#! alexa at it again... terrifying
    Quote Originally Posted by Cape90 (#10766)
    I feel betrayed by alexa, they were pocketing me pretty hard
    Quote Originally Posted by Senseless Scientist (#10797)
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Union Gazette (#10753)
    catlexa has died and reveals to be a Cultist of an Old One:

    Role PM for Halloween Mash 2

    You are Aiden Osborn, [indecipherable]. You are a Cultist of [indecipherable]. You win when the Village, all other Cults of an Old One, and any other threats to your faction have been eliminated, or when nothing can stop you from doing so.

    You begin the game with 70 Sanity.

    Study of [Indecipherable
    Trigger
    When a [indecipherable] or [indecipherable] learns or gains access to an action, permanently learn that action. You may only use learned actions once per game. (An action duplicated by the [indecipherable] counts.)
    HOLY $%#!ING $%#!
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#5890)
    Game Aftermath Post

    Holy $%#!, alexa is terrifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#5144)
    also wow alexa's wolf-game is absolutely terrifying lmfao
    Amrock — 01/04/2022
    Oh god!

    dobby...

    jack...

    ara...

    michelle...

    Everybody I loved is gone. And all that I see is the terrifying face of the one creature that has gone noticed to everybody's tracks. Slipped through everyone's noses. To destroy all of my single friends I made through my journey.

    I can only watch in fear as it walks towards me. With its sharp fangs and silver claws. To finish what we were supposed to do yet we couldn't.

    It's over.

    Alexa has just steamrolled us.

    If only we coordinated our red lights...

    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#3706)
    katze wagon looks pretty pure
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#3707)
    Season 8 Finale! [The Mafia Championship] Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 The Sun Fan Holyflare (123), JohnCarter (70), Wiml (85), Thunal33 (96)
    2 Thunal33 Soneji (22), The Sun Fan (67)
    2 katze alexa (128), katze (117)
    1 Wiml Pilica (30)
    1 Soneji vanity. (111)
    3 Not voting Hornet (34), Gorf (96), Boquise (105)

    View Vote History

    End day at majority is enabled. With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

    Day 2 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021. There are 1634076060000 remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12263)
    alexa is town but we should shoot there just to be safe
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12387)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#12383)
    filthyvermin
    wolf claim
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12401)
    ##Vote nutella
    Quote Originally Posted by The Front Man (#12407)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#12383)
    filthyvermin
    Contestant 32 has been eliminated!

    Wolf
    You are contestant number 32
    Please remember to submit your collective actions for night 1 and night 2!
    You win when all villagers are dead. Good luck!
    The gamethread is here . Join the wolfchat here to see your teammates (this is mandatory): HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12410)
    ##Vote Abraxas
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#3505)


    screams in me thinking i had to finish this by 4:15
    Quote Originally Posted by stayhappyfriend (#4471)
    Btw Alexa used the bronana-tell yesterday, she is out of scumrange now

    Happy
    Quote Originally Posted by Oshawott (#14037)
    i think alexa might have almost left wolf range when she was ending every sentence previously with "gl"

  14. ISO #64
    Galaxy Brain alexa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#63)
    The lack of empathy for people whose dogs are actually on fire is astounding.
    For legal reasons this is a joke, I'm detached from this situation now
    Quote Originally Posted by marry (#1747)
    also asking myself which of you kept me alive over Alexa because you knew Alexa would look into your medical file, your social security number, and your credit history before she was sure who's town and whos not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Parente (#9861)
    Alexa has tmi tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by PunchyTheCat (#13680)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#13663)
    $%#! it
    This is for you alexa
    min
    oh boy what a surprise another alexa endorsed green flip
    Quote Originally Posted by The Front Man (#13695)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandyfan402 (#13663)
    $%#! it
    This is for you alexa
    min

    BANG

    Contestant 24 has been eliminated!

    Wolf
    You are contestant number 24
    Please remember to submit your collective actions for night 1 and night 2!
    You win when all villagers are dead. Good luck!
    The gamethread is here . Join the wolfchat here to see your teammates (this is mandatory): HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaner (#13749)
    Rich shoot alexa to make the game more fair
    Quote Originally Posted by Macdougall (#10757)
    pockety $%#! alexa at it again... terrifying
    Quote Originally Posted by Cape90 (#10766)
    I feel betrayed by alexa, they were pocketing me pretty hard
    Quote Originally Posted by Senseless Scientist (#10797)
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Union Gazette (#10753)
    catlexa has died and reveals to be a Cultist of an Old One:

    Role PM for Halloween Mash 2

    You are Aiden Osborn, [indecipherable]. You are a Cultist of [indecipherable]. You win when the Village, all other Cults of an Old One, and any other threats to your faction have been eliminated, or when nothing can stop you from doing so.

    You begin the game with 70 Sanity.

    Study of [Indecipherable
    Trigger
    When a [indecipherable] or [indecipherable] learns or gains access to an action, permanently learn that action. You may only use learned actions once per game. (An action duplicated by the [indecipherable] counts.)
    HOLY $%#!ING $%#!
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#5890)
    Game Aftermath Post

    Holy $%#!, alexa is terrifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#5144)
    also wow alexa's wolf-game is absolutely terrifying lmfao
    Amrock — 01/04/2022
    Oh god!

    dobby...

    jack...

    ara...

    michelle...

    Everybody I loved is gone. And all that I see is the terrifying face of the one creature that has gone noticed to everybody's tracks. Slipped through everyone's noses. To destroy all of my single friends I made through my journey.

    I can only watch in fear as it walks towards me. With its sharp fangs and silver claws. To finish what we were supposed to do yet we couldn't.

    It's over.

    Alexa has just steamrolled us.

    If only we coordinated our red lights...

    Quote Originally Posted by katze (#3706)
    katze wagon looks pretty pure
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafia Host (#3707)
    Season 8 Finale! [The Mafia Championship] Day 2 Votecount

    Votes Target Voters (Posts in Phase)
    4 The Sun Fan Holyflare (123), JohnCarter (70), Wiml (85), Thunal33 (96)
    2 Thunal33 Soneji (22), The Sun Fan (67)
    2 katze alexa (128), katze (117)
    1 Wiml Pilica (30)
    1 Soneji vanity. (111)
    3 Not voting Hornet (34), Gorf (96), Boquise (105)

    View Vote History

    End day at majority is enabled. With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

    Day 2 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021. There are 1634076060000 remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12263)
    alexa is town but we should shoot there just to be safe
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12387)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#12383)
    filthyvermin
    wolf claim
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12401)
    ##Vote nutella
    Quote Originally Posted by The Front Man (#12407)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#12383)
    filthyvermin
    Contestant 32 has been eliminated!

    Wolf
    You are contestant number 32
    Please remember to submit your collective actions for night 1 and night 2!
    You win when all villagers are dead. Good luck!
    The gamethread is here . Join the wolfchat here to see your teammates (this is mandatory): HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas (#12410)
    ##Vote Abraxas
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa (#3505)


    screams in me thinking i had to finish this by 4:15
    Quote Originally Posted by stayhappyfriend (#4471)
    Btw Alexa used the bronana-tell yesterday, she is out of scumrange now

    Happy
    Quote Originally Posted by Oshawott (#14037)
    i think alexa might have almost left wolf range when she was ending every sentence previously with "gl"

  15. ISO #65
    Thread Analyst juliet's Avatar
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    hello all -

    I don't play often on this site but I have played a lot of mafia on other sites for the past 12 years, have been a mod, and am now an admin. I have read the entire original sub-out thread (the Amrock thread), the new policy and the feedback threads. I see the passion surrounding this topic on both sides of the issue.

    I'm only speaking up because I managed an analogous system in my rl job called "no-fault attendance" and dealt with unplanned absences. Some of you may have worked at businesses with the same, it's a common way to manage attendance in large businesses especially with an organized work force.

    Basically it works like this:

    - You have x number of unplanned absences to use in the year before you get a warning.

    - We don't ask you why you were absent - maybe you went to the beach for the day, maybe you had an emergency.

    - After you have exhausted x number of unplanned absences you get a warning.

    - After more unplanned absences, the discipline progresses all the way to termination of employment.

    - You do not always get a warning, just like in the new policy here. Exceptional situations occurred but not often.

    I know for our business, controlling unplanned absence was critical to patient care. What I've seen in the threads here is many hosts and players indicate unplanned "quits" I'll call them are disruptive to the overall experience of the game.

    No fault polices whether they be for attendance or "quits" in games remove subjectivity. Sure, in some cases it's easy to judge whether it's legit or not, but we're not talking about a case here or there of a few people quitting a game. We're talking about making a lot of judgements, about a lot of situations, determining where the line is, determining if the person is telling the truth or not.

    I can only tell you that after many years of making judgements like this it may look easy but it's not. It may seem clean cut but it's not.

    I think I've written a book here and I apologize for that. I just felt like I have enough experience with this kind of thing to offer an opinion.

  16. ISO #66
    Banned

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#49)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#43)
    I would also like to see multigaming rules change to account for multiple games each being their own individual sub effort - if you ruin multiple games at the same time, how is that better than one game one month and another the next? You should always think very carefully about signing up for multiple games and frankly, multigaming tends to hurt game integrity and game experience anyway.
    When you can't ask why someone subbed out and you treat them all the same, you should base the policy on the most innocent reasons, not the ones that upset you the most IYAM.

    Scenario: A player is a god at multitabling with no known issues or sub outs. They are playing 2+ games at the same time. Their child goes missing. They sub out of all of the games.

    Is giving them a ban for this appropriate? If you think we should give an exception for this reason, then you go back to asking for reasons and assessing seriousness all over again, defeating the point of the policy.

    If not, what about banning multitabling entirely in case life happens? One person having an emergency can't impact multiple games if they can only be in one at a time.
    I know this is silly to pick on the example given when it isn't the point of the post, but imagine losing your kid long enough to make you stop playing day+ long phases and giving any $%#!s about a 1 month ban on forum Mafia.

    Now if we imaging a player gets in a terrible car accident. In their semi lucid state in-between all the emergency services and waiting to be prepped for emergency surgery their brain won't let them ignore their Mafia game. So they send their host a pm, "car accident, it's real bad please sub"

    The player undergoes life saving surgery, but lost both their legs. While grappling with this massive paradigm shift to all their hopes, dreams, and aspirations for life. Trying to comprehend how they will adjust, where can they find any ray of happiness through the fog of despair they are feeling.

    A thought occurs, at least they will have a ridiculous amount of time to devote to forum Mafia during their bed rest recovery over the next month before the physical therapy and stress of considering how they will keep their jobs starts. At least they are a full complete person in forum Mafia. In that medium they are able to be their full selves still. They could even imagine forgetting the accident for a few minutes at a time while being fully invested in a reply.

    They open up MU and see a pm. "Oh someone is checking to see if I am ok, I suppose that message I sent was ominous."

    "You are banned for 1 month for ruining multiple games when you subbed out. Please be more considerate to others, and manage your time/expectations better in future. Feel free to use this month to reflect on how to not be a game ruiner. Regards, mods"
    1) This is the most ridiculous example ever

    2) They wouldn't even get banned because they only subbed out once and for a good reason

    3) Imagine losing both your legs and caring about being banned for 1 month on a forum mafia site...

  17. ISO #67
    Galaxy Brain Macdougall's Avatar
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    I'd like to request that extreme pooping be added to the list of acceptable reasons to sub out.

  18. ISO #68
    Wants It More KnightsofCydonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#66)
    1) This is the most ridiculous example ever
    Tbh the most ridiculous example is if a member of the community passing away is announced through a sudden ban reversal and posthumous apology.
    Mouth Maestro: yes, i'm trash, but just you try getting your dopamine somewhere else
    Marshal: not only did knights have a shot on a wolf

    not only did knights have a super importantrole

    but it was their birthday
    BrainpanSonata: I'm so disrespected that I tried to post a Rodney Dangerfield gif... and MU crashed!
    Quote Originally Posted by KnightsofCydonia (#1161)
    just cracked a fortune cookie that said my future looks bright and now i hate everything
    Quote Originally Posted by Golurk (#10444)
    Mac, if you don't hurry up, it's your fault that I'm gonna eat Autumn Mix until I puke.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Weird Taste Walrus (#3665)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Forces (#3662)
    Hey all you cool cats and kittens
    Oh, now I've seen enough Tiger King memes to know that's a scumtell.

    -redshift
    KnightsofCydonia: also ping Fantano and tell him I never forgave him for overlooking the fact that Mouth Dreams is a concept album about insomnia
    Quote Originally Posted by Object (#4329)
    Golurk feels like the rogue detective that no one else at the precinct takes seriously.

  19. ISO #69
    Wants It More AndrewGreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison (#66)
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGreve (#49)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#46)
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#43)
    I would also like to see multigaming rules change to account for multiple games each being their own individual sub effort - if you ruin multiple games at the same time, how is that better than one game one month and another the next? You should always think very carefully about signing up for multiple games and frankly, multigaming tends to hurt game integrity and game experience anyway.
    When you can't ask why someone subbed out and you treat them all the same, you should base the policy on the most innocent reasons, not the ones that upset you the most IYAM.

    Scenario: A player is a god at multitabling with no known issues or sub outs. They are playing 2+ games at the same time. Their child goes missing. They sub out of all of the games.

    Is giving them a ban for this appropriate? If you think we should give an exception for this reason, then you go back to asking for reasons and assessing seriousness all over again, defeating the point of the policy.

    If not, what about banning multitabling entirely in case life happens? One person having an emergency can't impact multiple games if they can only be in one at a time.
    I know this is silly to pick on the example given when it isn't the point of the post, but imagine losing your kid long enough to make you stop playing day+ long phases and giving any $%#!s about a 1 month ban on forum Mafia.

    Now if we imaging a player gets in a terrible car accident. In their semi lucid state in-between all the emergency services and waiting to be prepped for emergency surgery their brain won't let them ignore their Mafia game. So they send their host a pm, "car accident, it's real bad please sub"

    The player undergoes life saving surgery, but lost both their legs. While grappling with this massive paradigm shift to all their hopes, dreams, and aspirations for life. Trying to comprehend how they will adjust, where can they find any ray of happiness through the fog of despair they are feeling.

    A thought occurs, at least they will have a ridiculous amount of time to devote to forum Mafia during their bed rest recovery over the next month before the physical therapy and stress of considering how they will keep their jobs starts. At least they are a full complete person in forum Mafia. In that medium they are able to be their full selves still. They could even imagine forgetting the accident for a few minutes at a time while being fully invested in a reply.

    They open up MU and see a pm. "Oh someone is checking to see if I am ok, I suppose that message I sent was ominous."

    "You are banned for 1 month for ruining multiple games when you subbed out. Please be more considerate to others, and manage your time/expectations better in future. Feel free to use this month to reflect on how to not be a game ruiner. Regards, mods"
    1) This is the most ridiculous example ever

    2) They wouldn't even get banned because they only subbed out once and for a good reason

    3) Imagine losing both your legs and caring about being banned for 1 month on a forum mafia site...
    The conversation was around multi-tablers subs counting as one or two games.

    It is more understandable for someone stuck in a hospital bed caring about playing Mafia, than a parent with a missing child

  20. ISO #70
    Soul Reader Dale's Avatar
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    As a host I've always tried to be fair or a little more lenient with subs or force subsitutions; but when you place a 10 post minimum and people can't even bother to post 10 times in 36 hours it's a little disheartening as a host. There's been plenty of times I wanted to just force out four or five people for basically just min posting and not playing the game so I think the policy will be a step towards the right direction.
    Last edited by Dale; September 3rd, 2022 at 09:30 PM.




    Town W/L: 5/7 (71.42%)
    Wolf W/L: 1/2 (50%)
    Other W/L: 0/0

    Total W/L: 6/9 (66.6%)





  21. ISO #71
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    These sub out mechanics seem really fun. Can't wait to try them out in my next game!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  22. ISO #72
    Galaxy Brain Garden Gnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neopest (#53)
    Anyways, people are mistaking my point and saying that I believe subs should not be moderated at all. When what I'm really saying is that frivolous subs such as RWSTFO, I got bored, etc. should be moderated harshly, but that sub outs that are related to emergencies and outside of the player's hands should not be.

    I already reported someone who went through the latter and they got very upset with me, so already people are taking it this way even if that's not the intention.
    I can't imagine RWSTFO. I would think that it would be more like RVTSTFO (as in "how many times can one person rand VT before bursting into tears and quitting in sadness?")

  23. ISO #73
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale (#70)
    As a host I've always tried to be fair or a little more lenient with subs or force subsitutions; but when you place a 10 post minimum and people can't even bother to post 10 times in 36 hours it's a little disheartening as a host. There's been plenty of times I wanted to just force out four or five people for basically just min posting and not playing the game so I think the policy will be a step towards the right direction.
    What's this policy gonna do about min posters? It doesn't really address them if they don't choose to sub out
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  24. ISO #74
    Most Likely Asleep Secondhand Revenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pan (#54)
    There will be an adjustment period until people get used to "Subbing results in x, subbing twice results in y" change. That will go away with time. Every major game system uses a policy like this without problems. If anything, the thing they have over a site like MU is that you literally can't appeal it and it isn't done by interacting with a person. If you drop, you have consequences. No one talks to you. You can't message back. It's automatic. People live with it.

    MU will get up to speed soon.
    I mean are those systems in place because they're good overall or because they're what works for a game that size? Having as many people as they do requires them to automate, the alternative of hiring a ton of people isn't feasible for them. Which, if the issue is that mods don't have the time for the amount of subs etc, then yeah okay, but I don't think MU is comparable to League of Legends or something for a lot of reasons
    Come wayward souls,
    Who wander through the darkness,
    There is a light for the lost and the meek.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordQuas
    You don't have to do anything except die
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    Look upon my works ye low hanging fruit and despair!
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash
    I'm not accusing you of meta

    I'm accusing you of a wolfiest

    The most heinous of crimes

  25. ISO #75
    Soul Reader Dale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secondhand Revenant (#73)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale (#70)
    As a host I've always tried to be fair or a little more lenient with subs or force subsitutions; but when you place a 10 post minimum and people can't even bother to post 10 times in 36 hours it's a little disheartening as a host. There's been plenty of times I wanted to just force out four or five people for basically just min posting and not playing the game so I think the policy will be a step towards the right direction.
    What's this policy gonna do about min posters? It doesn't really address them if they don't choose to sub out
    I mean it essentially talks about min posting within the new policy does it not? I think if someone is constantly joining games just to min post, then it should be Enforced to either a sub out or further action. It's not fair to anyone else who joined the game to play when you have almost half the game just saying eh whatever and refusing to play. In my case or at least for me, I don't like to do it but I'll send out prods and make it known there won't be another and just force sub out. I do try to be understanding though, but it's frustrating to put effort into hosting a game just to be basically crapped on
    Last edited by Dale; September 15th, 2022 at 11:49 PM.




    Town W/L: 5/7 (71.42%)
    Wolf W/L: 1/2 (50%)
    Other W/L: 0/0

    Total W/L: 6/9 (66.6%)





  26. ISO #76
    GOAT Tier TripleHaven's Avatar
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    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#284)
    HEY $%#!S
    Since some people obviously don't know this, even though it should be BASIC COMMON SENSE, I guess i have to point it out. if you are PR, and are about to be misyeeted, YOU NEED TO CLAIM. You need to claim with at least 45 seconds, preferably 1 minute left so that people have time to refresh and unvote you. If you claim at 30 seconds, if you claim at 15 seconds, if you don't claim at all, YOU WILL BE MISYEETED. PR staying alive is extremely important for town. There was a post on the general mafia forum about win rates when PR is yeeted D1 in turbos and its 1/14 or some $%#!.

    I'm not going to call this gamethrowing, because some new players might not understand how important PR is to a setup, and others come from sites where you can't claim as PR. But please, for the love of god, claim if you're being killed. Thank you.

    Copypasta over.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser (#5246)
    Just picture King Bowser wearing baggy cargo pants, and trying to shove an enormous fluffy and supremely enraged kitty into his pockets all game, and all that happens is the cat keeps biting him and clawing him and tearing up his scaly flesh, while hissing and screeching with rage the whole time.

    Yet King Bowser is just as stubborn and insists the kitty goes in his pocket, despite numerous failed attempts.

    In the end, kitty was never pocketed. Did not survive the process, but left Bowser bloody and shredded and looking quite the fool.

    Then everyone else in town is like, dude, Bowser, what happened to your faaaaaace. And your cat.

    I uh... cut myself shaving. I'm still totally townie, honest.

    That is the legend of Goat Cat.

  27. ISO #77
    Galaxy Brain Garden Gnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    I don't know about that. You can say a lot in a few posts. And not everyone is able to post all of the time.

  28. ISO #78
    Banned

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    average sadnixon hater

  29. ISO #79
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    This is a problem with the minimums, not the min posters.

    Play games with higher minimum requirements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  30. ISO #80
    Wants It More Mischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#79)
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    This is a problem with the minimums, not the min posters.

    Play games with higher minimum requirements.
    I agree with this.

  31. ISO #81
    Soul Reader Dale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    Yes & no honestly. I'll shoulder the blame at least in my games for making a the minimum say 10? I mean still that's not a be all end all so I agree with you there. People who join games and only play the last maybe two hours of a day is awful regardless of alignment especially if they get rung up at EOD.




    Town W/L: 5/7 (71.42%)
    Wolf W/L: 1/2 (50%)
    Other W/L: 0/0

    Total W/L: 6/9 (66.6%)





  32. ISO #82
    Soul Reader Dale's Avatar
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    Like I've sent a prod out and someone replied for example one of my previous games

    "Make the minimum requirement higher then".

    Like that's toxic and not fair to others who want to play the game, again regardless of alignment it's bad manners. Just don't join the game if you have no real intention to play.




    Town W/L: 5/7 (71.42%)
    Wolf W/L: 1/2 (50%)
    Other W/L: 0/0

    Total W/L: 6/9 (66.6%)





  33. ISO #83
    Soul Reader Dale's Avatar
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    Also at least from my side of things, for my games I'm just going to start not accepting ins from someone I know to he a habitual slanker and has no regard for the host or the players they're playing with.




    Town W/L: 5/7 (71.42%)
    Wolf W/L: 1/2 (50%)
    Other W/L: 0/0

    Total W/L: 6/9 (66.6%)





  34. ISO #84
    Galaxy Brain Jaleb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Gnome (#77)
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleHaven (#76)
    min posters are way worse for game integrity than sub outs imo. maybe not *way* way worse, but worse.
    I don't know about that. You can say a lot in a few posts. And not everyone is able to post all of the time.
    Sure, but that usually requires a much slower day phase than what MU uses. Even 48/24 day phases I would expect players to interact at real time in some reasonable manner.

    That would require some 10-20 posts to interact in a reasonable way to read a player.

    Posts that are just essays can also just be read as someone spectating the game rather than playing at times, which makes it really hard with the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empoof (#4961)
    it was jaleb

    @Jaleb is a god
    ??Frog ??Last Thursday at 8:11 AM
    Jaleb, you're lowkey Magnus

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Mafia Universe is a community hub for people who enjoy playing the forum variant of Mafia (also known as Werewolf). We offer fully automated Mafia games and a wide variety of customized features crafted to optimize your game experience. We also proudly host the Internet's only database of Mafia/Werewolf communities.

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