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Thread: Season 9, Finale: Messages from the Mountains [Mafia Championship]

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  1. ISO #5701
    Soul Reader Seven's Avatar
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    Anne and Santy I read their meta before the start. I’m a heavily meta based player. I had similar responses around Blade at the start of SF3. He was being scum read in the beginning but I was arguing that it was his town play. Notably for Anne was the nuance of her reads like the one she read me for. It’s so 5th dimensional, like you can tell she was thinking on an elevated plane. What I picked up on Santy’s play is that he was haphazard and slothy when it came to reading the game as town. Whereas his scum game he made a show of being a goody. His opening here immediately displayed the former.

    The only thing that I found questionable about him was how he strongly town read me after I outed my read on him. Other players, like Blade in SF3 tend to find it suspicious when I come in strong with my ‘obv town’ reads, but Santy accepted it without a hitch ily Santy.

    Poyser was just obvious. I didn’t even really have to review his meta. He just came in a blazing with towniness.

  2. ISO #5702
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    @Seven, I'm reading your Day 1 push on illario. You seem like a dog on a bone there. Something told you that you were right on Wolf!Illario for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#1531)
    I think Illario is my push for today, he’s pinging me like crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#1550)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera (#1548)
    are you locked onto illario or would you be willing to wagon someone else from your post P#1538
    Im super locked on Illario. I haven’t had a chance to read Violet yet and I don’t want to deal with Koba throwing a hissy fit.
    As you're trying to articulate it at that time, it sounds like it's illario's confidence. He just seems so certain in his reads in a way you found insincere. And it reminded you of G7. Is that basically right?

    I want to evaluate this for myself. So I'm in the G7 Illario ISO right now. In just looking over the ISO, I don't really see it.

    Can you help me see it? I want to understand what the "pinging me like crazy" part was all about. I can understand if you had just played with WOlf!Illario how that can happen. But at least up to where I am in your ISO, you haven't really put evidence of this down in the thread. If you put it down later, you can just link me.

  3. ISO #5703
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    @Seven, so now I've gone to SF3. Because if you're reading Illario as a Wolf here on Day 1 for over-confidence, you can't possibly have just played in a game with Town!Illario exhibiting early confidence...

    Town!Illario from SF3 exhibiting crazy early confidence
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#456)
    ive been here and playing since the start of the game.

    @Chilly @Guiri @Hedin @Jackofhearts2005 @NANOOKTHECONQUEROR @Psycho666Soldier @Schiavetto @Violet

    post more please.

    ill post more once i have more to work with. i expect ill be able to clear myself by eod so dont worry too much about me.

    for now:
    ace,fontana,seven,datisi, blade. first 3 names are ICs, next two are very close to that. id be very surprised if theres a wolf in this list.
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#466)
    Quote Originally Posted by Datisi (#459)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#456)
    for now:
    ace,fontana,seven,datisi, blade. first 3 names are ICs, next two are very close to that. id be very surprised if theres a wolf in this list.
    very interested in why you think i'm that townie

    also oops, sorry fontana
    because you are. i had a look at your champs game and one of your town games and from all the players in the competition youre probably the one id say is most similar to me, though my play this game so far may not be an indicator of that. what im getting at is i think youre a very easy read if my assessment of you is correct and i see no reason to believe its wrong so far, esp since hedin is up there as one of my prime suspects and you called him out for all the right reasons and his responses back to you have been lukewarm at best in a way thats not partnery.
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#582)
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape (#579)
    Oh also no mention of Violet in illario's catchup while also he hardlock townreads me is fake as $%#! because if he really townread me that hard then he'd lock violet too or at least mention why he wasn't.
    lmao i was an idiot for having a moment of doubt on my read on you. congrats on becoming the most obvious villa to villa this game.

    In just a few posts, SF3!Town!illario correctly cleared five townies, including some of the best deepwolves from the first round of the tournament.

    So how can Seven in this game, who just played with Town!Illario in that game, come to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#1606)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#1601)
    Okay sure maybe I’m placing a little bit too much faith in your abilities to not throw the game then? Good for you for disproving that ig? That doesn’t speak anything for my alignment though
    The confidence doesn't come from a town perspective. There's no reason for you to be so confident as town that you alone finding 7 townies will win the game. You did this same thing in G7 now that I think about it. It gives scum Illario an excuse to not hard push wolves. You don't have to step on toes too much because your focus is on finding the goodies. The pseudo confidence that this will win the game is just cover to do so.
    I don't see it. I get why illario is so frustrated. Town!Illario in SF3 was super confident, especially in finding lock towns early on Day 1, even among notoriously hard to read players. Seven was in that game.

    So illario shows some of the same confidence early in this game, and Seven hard pushes him based on "he’s pinging me like crazy" which later gets elaborated to "There's no reason for you to be so confident as town that you alone finding 7 townies will win the game."

    Town!Illario
    Wolf!Seven

    Change my mind.

  4. ISO #5704
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    Okay, I can see Seven responding to some of these same criticisms as the ISO moves forward:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#1635)
    1) This is different. You’re just emulating the confidence. Same as Koba is emulating their SF3 play. But your confidence isn’t consistent with your recent experience.
    Seven's point is that Illario showed all that confidence in SF3 particularly about the martyr routine, where you just say "flip me and follow my legacy," which failed in SF3 because the remaining townies did not follow said legacy.

    I suppose. But I'm not sure why Seven is so sure that Illario has learned that particular lesson. After all, illario's solve was correct in SF3, and then Illario was voted to finals. Seems like Illario has received positive reinforcement for that strategy. And he has four players here who went through that experience with him, and might be more inclined to follow the path of enlightenment the second time around.

  5. ISO #5705
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#1977)
    I've spent too much time on Ephemera and I'm hungry. I wish the game was 72 hours so I could sleep on it. So from taking a quick peek at four of their town games and two scum games, I'd say this game doesn't quite match with either but it is closer to the SF1 than anything.

    The four town games had amusingly consistent openers:

    Cat's: starts making serious observations 4 posts into the game
    Q4: starts making serious observations 4 posts into the game
    S8SF1: starts making serious observations 4 posts into the game
    Mentor/Mentee: starts making serious observations 2-3 posts into the game

    As for the scum games, they start off more memey,

    Poisoner: starts making serious observations 9-10 posts into the game
    SF1: starts making serious observations 9 posts into the game


    As for here, they get serious around 7 posts into the game, so hard to say it's consistent with either. I will say, their opening joke vote here is reminiscent of their joke vote on Santy in SF1 (bad look for Anna unfortunately if Ephe flips mafia). And they also had a similar negation of someone's town read in both openings: MendesHotters Caps read in SF1 and Wisp's Santy read here. Amusingly both of these reads were contrasting their scum play in the previous game.

    Pretty wild actually how Santy and Ephe both have almost copy-pasta openings to their SF1 game.
    This "meta analysis" has all the trappings of Wolfy make-work, doesn't it?

    Compare the number of posts it takes ephemera to get to the serious stuff? Is it closer to 4 (Towny!) or is it closer to 9 (Wolfy!)? Oh, this game it's....it's SEVEN! Of course it's seven.

    Yes, in this game, it's SEVEN.

    I'm conf biased, family. I can only see Seven's name in red.

  6. ISO #5706
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can't read anymore. Wolf!Seven. Final answer.

    Totally can be paired with Wisp. Marmot is more of a question, but I think they can be paired too. There is lots of stuff in there that is consistent with distancing, though that is a hard thing to assume without flipping one.

    I'm not going to post evidence, I'm going with a numbered list of reasons:

    1. Game-long effort to chop illario does not seem genuine. It's based on illario essentially looking the same as Town!illario from SF3 and assuming that illario would have learned a lesson in that game and changed some of the things he says, which does not seem sincere to me. Also, Seven suggests that this illario looks more like G7 illario, and my quick review of that game suggests that is wrong too. If I'm wrong on Town!Illario, I am also wrong on Wolf!Seven.

    2. Seven cheerleads a lot of pushes that I think were wrong. He cheerleads Poyser pushing violet. He cheerleads me pushing Koba. He cheerleads Koba pushing Santy and Ephemera. As the game is coming more into focus, I am observing that Seven has been encouraging and amplifying towny mistakes in a manipulative way, without providing substance or progression to explain his motivations for doing this. I can understand the wolf motivations for these tactics much more clearly than town motivations.

    3. I don't see desperate, losing towny today, who needs to convince town that we're wrong or else leave a solve in his legacy. Instead, I see TLD (TM) with Wisp, and some unsupported assertions about Koba. In contrast, Koba came into the day ready to reevaluate and solve. Seven has fallen flat, from my point of view.

    4. That "meta thing" on Ephemera is the gold standard of Wolfy Makework. #itsseven.

  7. ISO #5707
    Soul Reader Conq's Avatar
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    ##Vote Seven
    ##Vote Wisp

  8. ISO #5708
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5618)
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5568)
    Suddenly, Seven comes up with their SF3 read. By bringing this read Seven's influence in this game would tank and the players who townread them no longer did. Neopest withdrew the strong townread and SF3 players attacked them. With Mera, Santy and me being the likeliest elims, there was no sense for this at all. If Seven would be a wolf, they would take a huge risk for no apparent reward. Seven would not be able to pocket players with that maneuver nor would they manage to actually push players with those kinds of reads when they come out of nowhere. The risk/reward ratio is absolutely horrible for a wolf here. What would w!Seven possibly gain from this? By attempting to push SF3 players, me included, Deven could pocket Mera or Santy from D1, but since Mera and Santy seemed like they would be early chops, that is not something where a wolf would attempt to gain influence.
    When u think about how Seven has been playing the game almost seemingly doing this all game, do you still feel the same? An arguement like this depends on wolf!Seven knowing the outcome, which they didn't. Seven as a wolf isn't the type of wolf from my experience, im ignoring cats and dogs since he subbed out, to play the game trying to look townie, he tries to keep his partners alive and pushes w/e he can come up with, which the latter can be said for either alignment, but my point is I dont think is a scale you should be trying to read them on, and sometimes wolves arent always logical in their approach anyways
    The problem is that I do not see any meaningful outcome for Seven's pushing? Seven would need something they attempt to achieve by his takes. If they are a wolf and they decide to fake reads that differ from the consensus reads, there should be some motivation why.

    With major d1 wagons being all town, I struggle to find that reason.

  9. ISO #5709
    [QUOTE=Seven;6354184]
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5342)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5339)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5330)
    Well I might if it involves saving a tr since I feel pretty content on the solve but other than that I’d rather just kill seven for the fact that I know you’re gonna switch ur solve the very moment you have an opening to get me killed
    I am stuck to Koba right now as I still do see a world where you’re town, but yes if there is an opening I’d yeet you. Consider this, if I’m town how would you think you look from my perspective? You god read me last game and have been pushing someone else that is fairly obv townie. If you were in my shoes, would you see your pushes as townie?
    Yeah I trd u last game and then when I trd u this game you scumread me for it, that didn’t add up. But I let it slide.

    Then you showed no real interest in trying to solve my slot but would always push for me the moment you had a chance to, which lines up with your wolf MO of ensuring I get killed

    And sure maybe it could alll be because you genuinely thought I was scum, the only reason for that I can think of that you alluded to was because I was pushing on town. But even that’s not true fypov because we had the exact same poe and what felt like a genuine mindmeld moment after which you still tried to bw under the argument I was pushing town despite the fact I was pushing the exact same people as you. That last point is something I don’t think I’ll ever ne able to rectify as coming from you as a villager
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.[/QUOTE]

    if i were a wolf this is what id say about my wolfbro to spew them lol

    still think the solve is likely just seven/marmot with wisp as the third but atp if it doesnt end on that i can still see shorty being a backup choice as the last wolf

    that being said i finally have time to rr shortys posts in more detail, was mostly focussed on tilg and lumi yesterday and marmot. feel good about the conclusions i came to there

  10. ISO #5710
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5344)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5342)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5339)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5330)
    Well I might if it involves saving a tr since I feel pretty content on the solve but other than that I’d rather just kill seven for the fact that I know you’re gonna switch ur solve the very moment you have an opening to get me killed
    I am stuck to Koba right now as I still do see a world where you’re town, but yes if there is an opening I’d yeet you. Consider this, if I’m town how would you think you look from my perspective? You god read me last game and have been pushing someone else that is fairly obv townie. If you were in my shoes, would you see your pushes as townie?
    Yeah I trd u last game and then when I trd u this game you scumread me for it, that didn’t add up. But I let it slide.

    Then you showed no real interest in trying to solve my slot but would always push for me the moment you had a chance to, which lines up with your wolf MO of ensuring I get killed

    And sure maybe it could alll be because you genuinely thought I was scum, the only reason for that I can think of that you alluded to was because I was pushing on town. But even that’s not true fypov because we had the exact same poe and what felt like a genuine mindmeld moment after which you still tried to bw under the argument I was pushing town despite the fact I was pushing the exact same people as you. That last point is something I don’t think I’ll ever ne able to rectify as coming from you as a villager
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.
    sorry, quote messed up

  11. ISO #5711
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5710)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5344)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5342)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5339)
    I am stuck to Koba right now as I still do see a world where you’re town, but yes if there is an opening I’d yeet you. Consider this, if I’m town how would you think you look from my perspective? You god read me last game and have been pushing someone else that is fairly obv townie. If you were in my shoes, would you see your pushes as townie?
    Yeah I trd u last game and then when I trd u this game you scumread me for it, that didn’t add up. But I let it slide.

    Then you showed no real interest in trying to solve my slot but would always push for me the moment you had a chance to, which lines up with your wolf MO of ensuring I get killed

    And sure maybe it could alll be because you genuinely thought I was scum, the only reason for that I can think of that you alluded to was because I was pushing on town. But even that’s not true fypov because we had the exact same poe and what felt like a genuine mindmeld moment after which you still tried to bw under the argument I was pushing town despite the fact I was pushing the exact same people as you. That last point is something I don’t think I’ll ever ne able to rectify as coming from you as a villager
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.
    sorry, quote messed up
    ig why that quote made me specifically tinfoil shorty is that seven specifically singled her out as the obvtown i pushed. i was pushing lumi more than shorty on d2, and imo lumi has met the bar of obvtown now that i read their stuff in more detail. so yeah the fact they specifically chose shorty pinged me...it could be that seven is just trying to specifically appeal to shorty in that post if hes a wolf...or its just an attempt at spew.

  12. ISO #5712
    Quote Originally Posted by marmot (#5098)
    @illario, quoting posts from anyone's EOD in order to find wolves is an overrated method of doing that. EODs are chaotic, and it's very easy for anyone to look bad, especially villagers.

    Also, I suck at EODs in general. You can look back at my Game 4 for similar EOD behaviors. I have a lot of trouble parsing a lot of information and responding at a rapid rate. So my EODs are often going to look bad just because it's me.
    but how do you specifically know it looks bad? arent you working under the assumption koba is a wolf, so the fact that u didnt vote santy and were on someone thats a potential wolf to you should look good fypov?

  13. ISO #5713
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    The thing that worries me the most in w!Koba world is that their win condition is to bring Ace into lylo, because if Ace is town, Ace will not budge on that read and will always refuse to vote Koba.

  14. ISO #5714
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5690)
    Honestly, @Seven, the main reason I prefer to chop @Wisp today is that Koba and illario want to chop you first.

    All three of you said you have Wisp as a Wolf, so I feel like Wisp is a good starting point.
    As I said earlier, all SF3 games were won by some bussing/spew. The way this day is shaping up, I think w!Wisp is sacrificed for other wolves to keep going.

    I kinda think the correct trajectory for flips would be Wisp -> Koba/Seven if wisp flips wolf. If Koba/Seven flips green, I would push the other one. I feel this approach should always kill two wolves.

  15. ISO #5715
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5714)
    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5690)
    Honestly, @Seven, the main reason I prefer to chop @Wisp today is that Koba and illario want to chop you first.

    All three of you said you have Wisp as a Wolf, so I feel like Wisp is a good starting point.
    As I said earlier, all SF3 games were won by some bussing/spew. The way this day is shaping up, I think w!Wisp is sacrificed for other wolves to keep going.

    I kinda think the correct trajectory for flips would be Wisp -> Koba/Seven if wisp flips wolf. If Koba/Seven flips green, I would push the other one. I feel this approach should always kill two wolves.
    As much as I want seven gone, if we are speaking strategically the correct trajectory is marmot>seven imo


    Whilst I think wisp can be the third in that world it makes the most sense to get them last if that’s the case

  16. ISO #5716
    Quote Originally Posted by DkKoba (#5151)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5148)
    I will unite with Tilgarial.

    ##Vote DkKoba

    Amendment to p#4643. Illario/Koba are the only players I'm willing to vote today. Even if wrong, eliminating the two of them will restore the game state to something that is possibly winnable in xylo. All of you that are town reading them need to very much reconsider because you're being snowed hardcore.

    Illario wouldn't be that mean to Koba D2 for no reason. He was comfortable with being toxic because it was theater.
    He was comfortable being tbat toxic bc I'm able to handle it because we played mafia on epicmafia where we had people like jeff dyl and more who were significantly worse and we understand its just a game 🤣🤣 you waited to vote me here while evaluating how people would react to illarios case on you.
    LMAO i loved dyl ngl

  17. ISO #5717
    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5225)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#285)
    it's beyond silly, and I didn't win two wolf games in a row to be told im a wolf because I asked someone if we are finally town together
    Isn't this a bizarre thing to say for Town!Wisp?

    Wisp here is bragging about his ability to Wolf and taking offense to the wrong thing, if Town.
    oh yeah i remember thinking about that and forgetting

  18. ISO #5718
    Man I’m
    Really concerned conq is gonna be the guiri of sf3, they just Feel so towny to me but I feel like when I die people are gonna push there and it worries the heck out of me

  19. ISO #5719
    Can anyone whose concerned about conq case them to me, I wanna address this now and hopefully we can all come to an agreement on that slot

  20. ISO #5720
    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5232)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#820)
    Wisp

    Lumi
    Tilg
    Short

    Mera
    Conq
    Seven

    Nulls:
    Marvel
    Violet
    Poyser
    Ilario

    Koba
    (still hesistant to vote out players like Koba on day 1, but I acknowledge people's thoughts on the slot, and in a high skill game, it feels kind of lazy to call them town because they can throw their votes around so fast)

    Bottom Tier:
    Marmot
    Santy
    Neo
    This reads list at 820 does not seem to match with 815 with respect to Marmot. And 3rd from the bottom seems like a great place to put your teammate, especially after you just put some reasons in the thread for other people to find them as town or for them to eventually earn your town read (e.g., the meta and the idea that eventually marmot may "pop off" like SF2). I certainly cannot rule out a Wisp/Marmot team.
    BROO you are literally bringing up points that i had in multiquote that i was gonna mention later. im gonna be so sad if people tinfoil you later.

    ftr this is what i had multiquoted. theres a point where wisp claims to mindmeld with tilg on a wolfread on marmot and then soon after makes a reads list but marmot is null. its not a smoking gun, but just something i had quoted

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#378)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilgarial (#372)
    alright, ##Vote Santygrass

    somebody wanted weagon formation, so let me add my vote here
    I am slowly falling back in terms of reading posts, so just some takes rn

    shorty town
    santy woof
    koba null/woof
    marmot woof?
    ohh marmot wolf, my first mind meld
    unless im mis-understanding their posts, which Idk how I would
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#519)
    Wisp

    wouldnt vote as it stands
    Lumi
    Tilg
    Short
    Koba

    Mera (already feel like they are reacting differently than last game, wolf leans dont feel forced)

    Nulls:
    Marmot
    Marvel
    Seven
    Violet
    Poyser
    Ilario

    Bottom Tier:
    Santy
    Neo (still slightly tilted/dislike there focus on my entrance)
    Conq
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#813)
    Seven disliking Koba, but also liking Neo even though Neo is town-leaning Koba is weird to me
    if not his SF game where he was town and i saw the difference between two different variations of his town game, I would think this is bull, but with that in mind, I think this handling is more likely to not come from a wolf, when the W/W read could easily thrown into the thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#815)
    Quote Originally Posted by marmot (#812)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#810)
    Things to note

    I like that Conq is calling out Neo
    I like Seven's p#650 on Marmot, given I do agree that, that level of self-awareness is very rarely a good sign
    Conq seems to be evaluating Santy in a pretty natural read from their own POV but I disagree that p#369 is anything but NAI
    Im still focused on a lot of their early stuff which feels forced, like their Tilga read, and how they keep trying to get into the towncore
    Conq's thoughts on Koba are also good, and its starting to make me second guess my current, "wouldnt lynch at this point in time", read

    ##Unvote Conq
    Why do you think some level of self-awareness is very rarely a good sign?
    because its not something I expect higher level of players to focus on, and its usually always a compensation for nervousness

    I want to give u the time to pop off, since I saw you replace in and do it, but at the same time Im still disappointed that I can even give a good reason as to why you are town outside Mera trying to shove it into the thread

    I will note that I did in fact skim through that game they posted, and I can see the levels of fluff compared to here, but its certainly not enough for me to move you into "obvious town because meta"

  21. ISO #5721
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5293)
    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5291)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5287)
    Except I haven't pushed for anything unless u are referring to the world where we are both wolvea.
    I am almost done with my Wisp ISO. This is actually the best description I think of Wisp's game. He hasn't pushed for anything.

    I think he's a Wolf.
    True, Wisp has not been pushing very strongly, and I think the game has been more reactive. That would fit for a wolf who's in an easy mode. I'll make the comparison once I'm home.
    @Violet but do u think thats scummy given that several people alive can fit that description?

  22. ISO #5722
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5721)
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5293)
    Quote Originally Posted by Conq (#5291)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5287)
    Except I haven't pushed for anything unless u are referring to the world where we are both wolvea.
    I am almost done with my Wisp ISO. This is actually the best description I think of Wisp's game. He hasn't pushed for anything.

    I think he's a Wolf.
    True, Wisp has not been pushing very strongly, and I think the game has been more reactive. That would fit for a wolf who's in an easy mode. I'll make the comparison once I'm home.
    @Violet but do u think thats scummy given that several people alive can fit that description?
    Town can play that way as well, but considering how me, Santy and Mera are all town, I see that wolves would lack the urgency to push strongly. The fact that this does apply with Wisp's wolf meta does make this more concerning.

    It's obviously not something that locks Wisp as wolf, but it does make the case stronger.

  23. ISO #5723
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5355)
    Town Forever1
    Koba
    Lumi
    Violet
    Shorty
    Me

    Beaver tier
    Marmot

    Naughty but not together pairs
    illario
    seven

    wisp
    tilg

    Super naughty
    Conq
    ace, why do you think im scummy? same for conq?

  24. ISO #5724
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5368)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5346)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5344)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5342)
    Yeah I trd u last game and then when I trd u this game you scumread me for it, that didn’t add up. But I let it slide.

    Then you showed no real interest in trying to solve my slot but would always push for me the moment you had a chance to, which lines up with your wolf MO of ensuring I get killed

    And sure maybe it could alll be because you genuinely thought I was scum, the only reason for that I can think of that you alluded to was because I was pushing on town. But even that’s not true fypov because we had the exact same poe and what felt like a genuine mindmeld moment after which you still tried to bw under the argument I was pushing town despite the fact I was pushing the exact same people as you. That last point is something I don’t think I’ll ever ne able to rectify as coming from you as a villager
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.
    yeah i get that bro, but its moreso the way u went about it. even if i were to somehow perhaps consider you as town i would be sleeping with one eye open every night because id be worried ur gonna sneak into my room at any moment and end me. ive never had this feeling of uneasiness with you or any villager

    why is shorty obvtown fypov?
    I'm not sure why you see me as such a threat? It's not as if I can eliminate you alone, and I don't have high thread pull.

    Shorty is town for p#5056.
    because you try to kill me at every eod instead of just....talking to me??

    i feel like ive tried to extend you MANY olive branches but the way you go about pushing me doesnt feel in good faith. do you think thats unfair for me to have that perspective? @Seven

    even if u are somehow town, do you honestly believe that we can find each other, and i dont mean just for half an hour, or half a day phase, i mean a good stable read that lasts for the game?

  25. ISO #5724
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5368)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5346)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5344)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5342)
    Yeah I trd u last game and then when I trd u this game you scumread me for it, that didn’t add up. But I let it slide.

    Then you showed no real interest in trying to solve my slot but would always push for me the moment you had a chance to, which lines up with your wolf MO of ensuring I get killed

    And sure maybe it could alll be because you genuinely thought I was scum, the only reason for that I can think of that you alluded to was because I was pushing on town. But even that’s not true fypov because we had the exact same poe and what felt like a genuine mindmeld moment after which you still tried to bw under the argument I was pushing town despite the fact I was pushing the exact same people as you. That last point is something I don’t think I’ll ever ne able to rectify as coming from you as a villager
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.
    yeah i get that bro, but its moreso the way u went about it. even if i were to somehow perhaps consider you as town i would be sleeping with one eye open every night because id be worried ur gonna sneak into my room at any moment and end me. ive never had this feeling of uneasiness with you or any villager

    why is shorty obvtown fypov?
    I'm not sure why you see me as such a threat? It's not as if I can eliminate you alone, and I don't have high thread pull.

    Shorty is town for p#5056.
    because you try to kill me at every eod instead of just....talking to me??

    i feel like ive tried to extend you MANY olive branches but the way you go about pushing me doesnt feel in good faith. do you think thats unfair for me to have that perspective? @Seven

    even if u are somehow town, do you honestly believe that we can find each other, and i dont mean just for half an hour, or half a day phase, i mean a good stable read that lasts for the game?

  26. ISO #5726
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5399)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5368)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5346)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5344)
    Tilg was more speculation than PoE. Like I said at the start of that day, I was just fishing around. Note that when I started to get town vibes from Violet at EOD that’s when I went back to you because your PoE had at least 2 more wrong hits from my perspective at the time. You have to understand the reputation that you build. You don’t have the luxury of claiming you’re confident you’ve solved the game/caught scum three times just to keep switching it up, especially when it’s on obv townies like shorty.
    yeah i get that bro, but its moreso the way u went about it. even if i were to somehow perhaps consider you as town i would be sleeping with one eye open every night because id be worried ur gonna sneak into my room at any moment and end me. ive never had this feeling of uneasiness with you or any villager

    why is shorty obvtown fypov?
    I'm not sure why you see me as such a threat? It's not as if I can eliminate you alone, and I don't have high thread pull.

    Shorty is town for p#5056.
    So do you think your push here may stem more from feeling betrayed (mind melding then pushing you) than the belief that I'm scum?
    sure, mostly because i find it so hard to believe that t!you just does that..

  27. ISO #5727
    Look I’ll be totally honest, I’m getting cold feet. Just because the thread feels almost too calm for the solve me and koba are pushing to be correct. Only seven is really resisting that solve, and like ughhhh if there’s the slightest chance seven is town it really isn’t doing any favours that he’s pushing into koba. That doesn’t help me find him any easier, because your concerns about me are the exact concerns I have about you.

    @Seven I think you’re someone I’d say is top 10 at reading accuracy from the players I’ve met. The fact that me and you have been so diametrically opposed on everything this game bothers me. I’m sure it bothers you, and sure it could just be that I’m reading it horribly wrong or maybe you are or maybe both. But the only way we would ever figure that out is my talking to each other and reaching out and I feel like that’s something you have avoided the entire game until today. Why?

  28. ISO #5728
    Soul Reader Seven's Avatar
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    You caught up?

  29. ISO #5729
    I’ll be honest, every single fiber of my body wants to absolutely murderize seven after yesterdays eod. (In game, not irl, ily boo)

    But I can’t discount the fact that I’ve been super behind all game, and been playing catch up, which has made me reads very reactive and I still feel as though I’m missing key bits of detail. And everytime I feel confident on something I see something else that makes me hesitate and be like… wait a moment.

    The selfish player in me wants to kill seven, but I think playing selfish is what was caused us to all get in this position and what has caused pmuch most of the town losses this season.

    The non-selfish play and the more strategic play imo is to just vote marmot. It’s safe and boring but it does give more time for people to settle into the game. There’s a lot of benefits I can see to this vote:

    Marmot was in neos poe. He was near the very bottom
    Marmot was in poysers poe. Also near the very bottom.

    A marmot red flip does provide credence to the thought that both nks were onto something with their legacies. Santy also had marmot in his final solve so that’s Atleast 3 confirmed town that wanted to go there.

    Not only that, but there’s a lot of alive villagers who I recall wanting to push marmot. Conq had case there, shorty I believe called out marmot for being stiff d1, Tilg I recall had marmot bottom of poe on d2. Seven made a random team list eod yesterday that had marmot in every solve. Marmot has been in effectively everyone’s solve. Now half the current people alive have been wagoned at some point. Violet, koba, seven, me, wisp, ace (kinda). Now there has to be Atleast one wolf in here simply by virtue of probability. Marmot if town, is perhaps the most likely and least offensive push a wolf can make under pressure if they were in desperate need of directing a wagon on themself onto a villager. But yet… nobody has done that to marmot. Everyone scumreads marmot or has them in poe, yet they’re still kinda just here still. Even if we are all somehow wrong, and in the worst of worlds we keep missing with our eliminations I struggle to believe that marmot would be found in lylo (I’m thinking worst case where seven does flip town and then I get eliminated the next day).

    Not only that, but I think a marmot red flip does give a lot of information on how yesterday played out. In specific, it gives us information on violets alignment. If marmot is red, I would be heavily considering clearing violet off that flip based off marmots play at eod. The wagons were very close between santy and violet. It could have went either way. Marmot seemed disinterested in these wagons and instead chose to sheep Tilg onto koba. This almost does not ever happen if violet is a wolf. If violet is a wolf, marmot as a wolfbro would feel pressured to take a stance. Either vote santy to save violet, or vote violet and bus to get towncred and go deeper. Voting koba is the least likely option marmot takes as violets partner.

    In summary; A marmot red flip, would not only clear a slot that’s been in everhones poe, but it could very well likely also remove violet from ever being in contention for the poe for the remainder of the game

  30. ISO #5730
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven (#5728)
    You caught up?
    im like behind 8 or something pages

  31. ISO #5731
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5729)
    I’ll be honest, every single fiber of my body wants to absolutely murderize seven after yesterdays eod. (In game, not irl, ily boo)

    But I can’t discount the fact that I’ve been super behind all game, and been playing catch up, which has made me reads very reactive and I still feel as though I’m missing key bits of detail. And everytime I feel confident on something I see something else that makes me hesitate and be like… wait a moment.

    The selfish player in me wants to kill seven, but I think playing selfish is what was caused us to all get in this position and what has caused pmuch most of the town losses this season.

    The non-selfish play and the more strategic play imo is to just vote marmot. It’s safe and boring but it does give more time for people to settle into the game. There’s a lot of benefits I can see to this vote:

    Marmot was in neos poe. He was near the very bottom
    Marmot was in poysers poe. Also near the very bottom.

    A marmot red flip does provide credence to the thought that both nks were onto something with their legacies. Santy also had marmot in his final solve so that’s Atleast 3 confirmed town that wanted to go there.

    Not only that, but there’s a lot of alive villagers who I recall wanting to push marmot. Conq had case there, shorty I believe called out marmot for being stiff d1, Tilg I recall had marmot bottom of poe on d2. Seven made a random team list eod yesterday that had marmot in every solve. Marmot has been in effectively everyone’s solve. Now half the current people alive have been wagoned at some point. Violet, koba, seven, me, wisp, ace (kinda). Now there has to be Atleast one wolf in here simply by virtue of probability. Marmot if town, is perhaps the most likely and least offensive push a wolf can make under pressure if they were in desperate need of directing a wagon on themself onto a villager. But yet… nobody has done that to marmot. Everyone scumreads marmot or has them in poe, yet they’re still kinda just here still. Even if we are all somehow wrong, and in the worst of worlds we keep missing with our eliminations I struggle to believe that marmot would be found in lylo (I’m thinking worst case where seven does flip town and then I get eliminated the next day).

    Not only that, but I think a marmot red flip does give a lot of information on how yesterday played out. In specific, it gives us information on violets alignment. If marmot is red, I would be heavily considering clearing violet off that flip based off marmots play at eod. The wagons were very close between santy and violet. It could have went either way. Marmot seemed disinterested in these wagons and instead chose to sheep Tilg onto koba. This almost does not ever happen if violet is a wolf. If violet is a wolf, marmot as a wolfbro would feel pressured to take a stance. Either vote santy to save violet, or vote violet and bus to get towncred and go deeper. Voting koba is the least likely option marmot takes as violets partner.

    In summary; A marmot red flip, would not only clear a slot that’s been in everhones poe, but it could very well likely also remove violet from ever being in contention for the poe for the remainder of the game
    i want today to be a group effort fwiw, i prefer that we are all on the same page and vote as a core.

    im more shaky on my solve being correct (third time in a row this game yayy) but i am more confident that koba, conq, lumi and tilg arent ever wolves. ill work from this skeleton and go backwards. so id like to know everyones thoughts on this post about marmot, does it make sense? do people agree? is this a decent strategy?

  32. ISO #5732
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    Unless something ezceptional happens, I'm not going to vote Seven today.

    While the readons to flip Marmot you listed are true, I'm not convinced. The points in nka are valid. While nka can be helpful, it is not alone conclusive.

    It is true that 3 of the four eliminated villas did suspect Marmot. However, Mera did not and the fact that Mera made the point about Marmot's wolfmeta might be the reason why Marmot was not pushed d1.

    The last point about how Marmot flipping red would be beneficial is absolutely true. However, it is not an actual argument as to why Marmot would be a wolf - it just highlights the payoff if the flip is red.

  33. ISO #5733
    KPOP Inno Child Ace Marvel's Avatar
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    Illario haven’t you learned anything about the Datisi situation?

    The same reasons you want to kill Marmot are why you push Datisi last game to the pointnof self sacrifice.

    Think this through and don’t ever say again just because POE let’s kill.

  34. ISO #5734
    Soul Reader Seven's Avatar
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    I’ll wait for you to catch up before responding since there’s some context I think you need.

    In the mean time


  35. ISO #5735
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5732)
    Unless something ezceptional happens, I'm not going to vote Seven today.

    While the readons to flip Marmot you listed are true, I'm not convinced. The points in nka are valid. While nka can be helpful, it is not alone conclusive.

    It is true that 3 of the four eliminated villas did suspect Marmot. However, Mera did not and the fact that Mera made the point about Marmot's wolfmeta might be the reason why Marmot was not pushed d1.

    The last point about how Marmot flipping red would be beneficial is absolutely true. However, it is not an actual argument as to why Marmot would be a wolf - it just highlights the payoff if the flip is red.
    i mean yeah i wanted to respect meras read there too, which is why i gave marmot space d2. the issue is mera was sick and barely had much time to play, so i have to factor that vs the 3 other dead town who did have more time to read and analyse things.

  36. ISO #5736
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5733)
    Illario haven’t you learned anything about the Datisi situation?

    The same reasons you want to kill Marmot are why you push Datisi last game to the pointnof self sacrifice.

    Think this through and don’t ever say again just because POE let’s kill.
    what do you mean? i would say my push on seven is much more similar to datisi last game because im the primary driver of this push. if seven is town, i dont think people ever find me tomorrow no matter how towny i be so i will die next. then we are in lylo. thats exactly the datisi situation all over again. so i dont reeally get what you mean here?

  37. ISO #5737
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5207)
    If I die today you will see that team is unlikely

    🙃

    I can understand me and Seven, maybe but I don't think I could stop myself from focusing him if we were wolves together, and would be focusing on distancing.

    Idk why I'm linked to marmot unless thats like a leftover poe thing
    this was the post that gave me some chills in a w!wisp world

  38. ISO #5738
    KPOP Inno Child Ace Marvel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5736)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5733)
    Illario haven’t you learned anything about the Datisi situation?

    The same reasons you want to kill Marmot are why you push Datisi last game to the pointnof self sacrifice.

    Think this through and don’t ever say again just because POE let’s kill.
    what do you mean? i would say my push on seven is much more similar to datisi last game because im the primary driver of this push. if seven is town, i dont think people ever find me tomorrow no matter how towny i be so i will die next. then we are in lylo. thats exactly the datisi situation all over again. so i dont reeally get what you mean here?
    That you are using weak suss of previous dead townies to kill Marmot.

    And you think Violet and Seven are town.
    You are town.
    And Im sure Koba is town.
    ANND IM TOWN.

    You just agreed with my read D1 SF3 is pure, the same read you decided to buy into that made me a wolf.

    ##Vote illario

  39. ISO #5739
    Soul Reader Violet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5735)
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5732)
    Unless something ezceptional happens, I'm not going to vote Seven today.

    While the readons to flip Marmot you listed are true, I'm not convinced. The points in nka are valid. While nka can be helpful, it is not alone conclusive.

    It is true that 3 of the four eliminated villas did suspect Marmot. However, Mera did not and the fact that Mera made the point about Marmot's wolfmeta might be the reason why Marmot was not pushed d1.

    The last point about how Marmot flipping red would be beneficial is absolutely true. However, it is not an actual argument as to why Marmot would be a wolf - it just highlights the payoff if the flip is red.
    i mean yeah i wanted to respect meras read there too, which is why i gave marmot space d2. the issue is mera was sick and barely had much time to play, so i have to factor that vs the 3 other dead town who did have more time to read and analyse things.
    I think that read by Mera is the reason Marmot kinda ended up in that space. Marmot was suspected in D1, but with Mera's comment on meta, a push in that direction would have been awkvward on D1. On d2 there was no real need for that I think

    Marmot if town, is perhaps the most likely and least offensive push a wolf can make under pressure if they were in desperate need of directing a wagon on themself onto a villager.
    Has there been a wolf who needs redirection like this? Santy, Mera and me were all easy pushes if that was needed. Not to mention that Koba was pushed when they were postcapped, I doubt w!Koba would have wanted to push for Marmot instead of Santy at the EoD2. The baseline is that there have been easier pushes and that the players in need who you listed all resorted to those. Me, Koba, Wisp, you Seven and Ace have all pushed one or more from me/santy/mera.

  40. ISO #5740
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5737)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5207)
    If I die today you will see that team is unlikely

    🙃

    I can understand me and Seven, maybe but I don't think I could stop myself from focusing him if we were wolves together, and would be focusing on distancing.

    Idk why I'm linked to marmot unless thats like a leftover poe thing
    this was the post that gave me some chills in a w!wisp world
    Like if I am to take my lock town reads, what I have left over to solve is

    Seven marmot wisp shorty ace violet

    Ace and violet are both somewhere between poe and lock town so I wouldn’t go there any time soon

    If wisp is a wolf and he is with seven I’m not entirely sure he makes the post where he’s like yeah sure I can see me and seven being wolves. It’s not something that’s 100% unpairing, but still something that I feel is more unpairing than not. Wisp and marmot do have equity together too and I’m sorry but I still don’t think shorty is at the same level of towniness as my other top 4 town. I’m not saying she hasn’t been towny because she has. But I feel like… well so has everyone. And literally every game this season there’s been a wolf that’s slipped under the radar. I am not saying a wisp marmot shorty team is likely, however I do have to consider every scenario and team combination in my poe. If that’s the team I don’t think we will get there at this rate.

  41. ISO #5741
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5738)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5736)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5733)
    Illario haven’t you learned anything about the Datisi situation?

    The same reasons you want to kill Marmot are why you push Datisi last game to the pointnof self sacrifice.

    Think this through and don’t ever say again just because POE let’s kill.
    what do you mean? i would say my push on seven is much more similar to datisi last game because im the primary driver of this push. if seven is town, i dont think people ever find me tomorrow no matter how towny i be so i will die next. then we are in lylo. thats exactly the datisi situation all over again. so i dont reeally get what you mean here?
    That you are using weak suss of previous dead townies to kill Marmot.

    And you think Violet and Seven are town.
    You are town.
    And Im sure Koba is town.
    ANND IM TOWN.

    You just agreed with my read D1 SF3 is pure, the same read you decided to buy into that made me a wolf.

    ##Vote illario
    what on earth are you saying?

    your entire sus on me is build on anne dying. your sus on conq is build on poyser dying. this is far weaker than what im saying with marmot.

    thats not even why i wolfread you? i wolfread you d2 because you pushed on me for a reason that made 0 sense...like you are doing right now.

  42. ISO #5742
    ace you completely ignored the main point of my argument. you think violet is town right? violet is in your towncore. you think koba is town, right? marmot voted koba at eod. so how does marmot d2 play not bother you?

  43. ISO #5743
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5739)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5735)
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet (#5732)
    Unless something ezceptional happens, I'm not going to vote Seven today.

    While the readons to flip Marmot you listed are true, I'm not convinced. The points in nka are valid. While nka can be helpful, it is not alone conclusive.

    It is true that 3 of the four eliminated villas did suspect Marmot. However, Mera did not and the fact that Mera made the point about Marmot's wolfmeta might be the reason why Marmot was not pushed d1.

    The last point about how Marmot flipping red would be beneficial is absolutely true. However, it is not an actual argument as to why Marmot would be a wolf - it just highlights the payoff if the flip is red.
    i mean yeah i wanted to respect meras read there too, which is why i gave marmot space d2. the issue is mera was sick and barely had much time to play, so i have to factor that vs the 3 other dead town who did have more time to read and analyse things.
    I think that read by Mera is the reason Marmot kinda ended up in that space. Marmot was suspected in D1, but with Mera's comment on meta, a push in that direction would have been awkvward on D1. On d2 there was no real need for that I think

    Marmot if town, is perhaps the most likely and least offensive push a wolf can make under pressure if they were in desperate need of directing a wagon on themself onto a villager.
    Has there been a wolf who needs redirection like this? Santy, Mera and me were all easy pushes if that was needed. Not to mention that Koba was pushed when they were postcapped, I doubt w!Koba would have wanted to push for Marmot instead of Santy at the EoD2. The baseline is that there have been easier pushes and that the players in need who you listed all resorted to those. Me, Koba, Wisp, you Seven and Ace have all pushed one or more from me/santy/mera.
    but say even if you think seven is a wolf today, why are they pushing koba and not marmot? marmot is the easier push to make over koba who is being shielded by multiple people. same goes for you, you came in with some w/w theory pushing me and koba. why are people taking the harder road here?

  44. ISO #5744
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5738)
    Quote Originally Posted by illario (#5736)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5733)
    Illario haven’t you learned anything about the Datisi situation?

    The same reasons you want to kill Marmot are why you push Datisi last game to the pointnof self sacrifice.

    Think this through and don’t ever say again just because POE let’s kill.
    what do you mean? i would say my push on seven is much more similar to datisi last game because im the primary driver of this push. if seven is town, i dont think people ever find me tomorrow no matter how towny i be so i will die next. then we are in lylo. thats exactly the datisi situation all over again. so i dont reeally get what you mean here?
    That you are using weak suss of previous dead townies to kill Marmot.

    And you think Violet and Seven are town.
    You are town.
    And Im sure Koba is town.
    ANND IM TOWN.

    You just agreed with my read D1 SF3 is pure, the same read you decided to buy into that made me a wolf.

    ##Vote illario
    @DkKoba i want your opinion on this post. i cant follow the logic at all, not even in the slightest. is it just me?

  45. ISO #5745
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp (#5430)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5426)
    Bout that vote count, who was the most vocal Koba protector capped Ace, and who was in that wagon? Conq and seven and Wisp.

    interesting.
    since y'all love talking about kills
    or even how this is relevant

    If the main purpose of the wolf team was to get koba lynched, why are neither you or Illario dead. Two of the people who have been hyper-focused on them being obvious town
    hmmm this actually is a valid point

  46. ISO #5746
    It’s also noted that ace has completely ignored Kobas and Anne’s read on me which is odd since ace himself admits he is a support player and they are both people ace highly respects. Ace was fine with me doing my thing today only when I was tunneled on seven, now that I’m considering other worlds he is voting me for ??? Reasons. I didn’t even say that my seven read changed, I said that marmot is the most safest and beneficial vote and then asked for peoples opinions. It’s hard for me to see there being any town logic from what ace just said, and I highly respect ace as a player and I don’t remember being confused by his logic in our previous games we were both town

  47. ISO #5747
    And people accuse me of trying to sew chaos but the way ace has reacted to poyser wisp and myself at the slightest bits of pressure has been completely chaotic too

  48. ISO #5748
    @Seven I want your thoughts on everything I’m saying wrt marmot and ace

  49. ISO #5749
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Marvel (#5449)
    Quote Originally Posted by marmot (#5446)
    Poyser wasn't really traceable except to like maybe myself or Ace. And even that was a stretch.

    .

    .

    .

    Seven came into today pushing an Ace/Marmot world.
    it was the best moment for Conq wolf to get rid of Poyser before reveal.

    After today wolf need to be more strategic about their kills. And how useful certain players are to the tread for pushes or wolf siding
    like how does this make any sense????????????

    HE LITERALLY IS FOSSING CONQ BECAUSE POYSER DIED WHEN POYSER HAD HIM AS TOP TOWN.

    BUT, im mafia for thinking marmot has wolf equity because BOTH night kills ACTUALLY FOSSED MARMOT

  50. ISO #5750
    yeah nah, poyser was just right on ace

    ##Vote Ace Marvel

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Role of the Day
Private Investigator

The Private Investigator may each night investigate a player to learn whether or not they are cult-aligned.